The After Podcast
“The After, where you fill in the blank and we help YOU find what's missing.
Everyone has an AFTER. Let’s talk about it 🗣️”
The After Podcast
Episode 3
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All right, y'all. Welcome to the after podcast. Another episode. We spin it out for y'all. Of course, you have your boy, your host, Brandon, my co-pilot, my co-host Henry, the barber. Let's go. The one and only, the most infamous, famous, depending on how you see them, how you feel about them. You know what I'm saying? Same over here this way. But we're gonna dive into another episode. First of all, let me just pass out my assignments before we get this class started. Please hit the like button, hit the share button, invite, talk about us. Like I say all the time, we're trying to build a table where everybody can sit around and have a conversation and watch the whole episode through. I don't know if y'all know how business works in these content created streets, but don't just pop in and pop out. Sit with us. We're gonna give y'all a good 45 minutes, hour, hour and five. You know what I'm saying? While you're watching us, while you're going to sleep, just let it play.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Just let it play. If you're cleaning your house, let it play. If you're riding on the road and you're taking a little trip, let us play. I'm trying to give y'all enough base where it's an enjoyable audio. You know, um, I want to jump right into our first segment, which is where we've been and who we seen. So if y'all do follow us online, um, I'm sure, you know, maybe casually, maybe seriously, y'all keep up with us. Um, I posted some pictures of me and my family. We went on a vacation. Um, when you got a busy lifestyle, when life is full, it's important for you to take time away and invest in what's most important. And for me, my family is most important. You know what I'm saying? Um love my wife, love my kids. Um, I feel like they give me the the stability and the and the foundation to do what I do. And I don't ever want you know, all of my efforts that are going out to be more than what I put in to these four walls in my home. And so took my family on a little vacation. Um, you can you know get on my page and and see a little bit, a little sneak peek of what we did. But I thought it was important for me to share, you know, what it looks like for um black love, yeah, black family. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? A mother, a father, children, all together, having a wonderful time. Um I didn't spare any expense, or or at least as much as I couldn't spare anyway, and um wanted to just show my family uh um what it's like to relax and recover and uh and really just be able to take a minute to breathe. Um my kids are about to go back to school here soon. So um wanted to sneak one in. So, anyways, just wanted to spend just a moment and talk about the importance of family bonding. Um, you know, I know for us, like for me, you know, I didn't really get to have family vacations going up. You know what I'm saying? My parents were hardworking. Man, hell, they worked a couple jobs, both of them. But that was all just to make sure that the budget was met for the month. It wasn't no emergency fund, it wasn't no vacation fund, it wasn't, you know, uh us being able to just take spontaneous trips as a family. Number one, because if I can share a little bit about myself, I had six siblings.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, same yeah. I didn't know you had six too. Yeah. You had six siblings here? I don't know that out of six. Man, look at those things about each other on air. What's up, baby? Man, I didn't even know that.
SPEAKER_05So, yeah, man, I had it was seven of us, man. Seven of us. And uh not only seven of us, man, my my my grandfather lived with us on the back end of his life. And so we took care of him and housed him and made sure that he was straight. So man, it was just it was only so much to go around. And uh the one thing that I always made a promise to myself about was I wanted to be able to give my kids what I didn't have. Not because I wasn't grateful, you know what I'm saying. I think my parents did the best they could. They gave us, you know what I'm saying, a safe, uh, you know, they they made sure that we had clothes on our back, shoes on our feet, food on the table. They gave us all of our needs, man. They met the essentials and they did it really well against the odds. But I always wanted to be able to give my kids something a little extra, a little more, um, and and uh and stay true to that. So um being able to give them those memories in their childhood um is what will allow them to hopefully be better parents, yeah, better spouses um as they grow up. So man, I don't know what that was like for you having six siblings, man. My family didn't have it like that. How'd y'all have it here?
SPEAKER_03Man, I so I I grew up with a several small amount in suburbs, he's in Texas. We went on vacation like I want to say once sometimes, twice a year. Wow, yeah, yeah, yeah. But like that started to change just with my you know, parents, like relationship dynamic and everything like that. But yeah, for the most part, I do remember our family vacation. It was dope. It was usually like some type of like water park, Astro Worlds, or yeah, something like Six Flags. What was your favorite?
SPEAKER_05Like, you had a favorite memory you could think of?
SPEAKER_03Man, going to I think it was Six Flags, man, and just being like you know, just like with the fam, man. You know, walking around, going uh experiencing like different like roller coasters and stuff like that. I wasn't too fond of like the water, but it was just still cool, man. Just seeing us just like all like have fun as a family, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's seven kids, and the parents was doing it like that, huh? Well, well, uh uh six. It was six total, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, it was seven of us. So I had six siblings, so it was six total kids for your kids. I mean, what what is one more? Yeah, yeah. What is one more once you reach? It's a certain number you hit. You're right. Well, it don't matter.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Six, six, yeah, six is a lot, man.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, man. Yeah, my uh three boys, two girls, yeah. Okay. Yes, sir.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, man, it was four, four boys, three girls in my family. The girls book in. So my oldest is a sister, my youngest is a sister. So that's dope. That's dope. Absolutely. So actually, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, five boys, two girls. Let me correct myself. Oldest sister, youngest sister, and then five males in between. Okay. Yeah, so um, okay, okay. So yeah, man, I didn't get those types of luxuries, man. But I think more importantly than that, what it made me think about when I was on, you know what I'm saying, this this time with my key, my kids and my wife, and I was even able to bring um my mother along, my mother-in-law along with us, um, and have like this village all together under one roof, got a got a nice, you know, size Airbnb, and um we're sitting there and relaxing. My daughter, she's one year old and she's running around like she on vacation. And I'm just like taking it all in, and what made me think about was like the risk versus the investment. Like, how much risk are you willing to take, man and woman, yeah, when you're when you're thinking about building a family with someone.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05Cause like we all show our highlights. You know what I'm saying? Online, we we like to curate and make it look a certain type of way, but we none of us really know like the the the bill. You know what I'm saying? When you out eating, they bring you that bill, and if you're paying for it, everybody at the table don't know how much you pay for what they eat. You know what I'm saying? And so just thinking, man, they just enjoying the meal. And so being on the other side of it. Like, I'm over on this side of it, I got three teens, I got a one-year-old, wife, mother-in-law, my house is full. You being a man who, you know, has been on the market. Man, like, how do you see that? How do you think about that, bro?
SPEAKER_03So, like, risks versus the investment or the rewards. Well, yeah. Honestly, like, I feel like as long as the reward outweighs the rest, I think it's like net necessary. Like, for me, in my dynamic, uh shout out, shout out to my lady. Shout out. She lives in a an in a whole nother country, you know. So it was You done hopped over some puns.
SPEAKER_05Man, some ponds.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy, it's crazy.
SPEAKER_05That what they say, what they say, love knows no distance.
SPEAKER_03No distance, man, no distance. But the the reward, man, you know, just for us to meet each other for the first time and be in each other's presence, like, it was dope. It was dope. You know, our relationship was founded on like true chemistry and like friendship. We are like-minded in a lot of ways. And, you know, what's a what's what's a plane ticket? You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't even I don't even feel that once you experience like the overworld and everything like that. Like when you see your your your your your kids, you know, enjoying, enjoying quality time, you don't even think about how much you spend. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? I think I think it's it's the same thing.
SPEAKER_05That's what's up, man. They they say uh, you know, the old, the old uh the old wisdom is uh absence makes the heart grow fonder. Has that run true for you?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it. It has. It has yeah, it has, man. It has, man. But I feel like at the end of the day, I feel like it's just it just adds to the to the value of what's being built in the relationship. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a delicacy. Man, yeah. You you you take it more and more serious.
SPEAKER_05So let me ask you this, you know what I'm saying? Man, I'm always curious. You know what I'm saying? We can't start a conversation without me asking follow-up questions. So let me ask you this, bro. Like, when it comes to dating uh at a at a uh at a long distance, how do you substitute for like the lack of being able to observe a person in their their natural habitat on a day-to-day basis or see how they respond to like everyday stresses or tensions or if something comes up? How do you how do you substitute that? Or do you even know? Like, or is it is it something that you still figuring out?
SPEAKER_03Uh I'm I'm still we still like figuring figuring that aspect out. Yeah, that's a really good question. I mean, FaceTime is FaceTime, but it's like you're not really with that person, you know, 24-7, and all you can do is really for that person and for you is to communicate to the best of your ability. It's not asking general questions like, you know, how you doing per se, but like going going in deeper. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05But it's gotta be like a high. Because I've never I've never actually been in such a long distance relationship. But like I could imagine it being a high. You meet this person and you notice them, however, you notice them, whether it's social media uh or whatever the case may be, and then when you're physically in their presence, it's all confirmed.
SPEAKER_03Man, no catfish. No catfish. The adrenaline, man, it was it was it was dope. It was dope. Like I still remember the first time, like, wow, like we, like, like we here. That's dope.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's that's dope, man. So like when it comes, so I say I speak from my from my own experience. You know what I'm saying? I've I've been married, divorced, remarried, um, blended family. And what I found is like the more experience I gain, the less assumptions I make. So for me, like any questions I have need answers and proof to back up the answer.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05So when I think about risk versus investment or risk versus reward, I think about it like if you're in the stock market, if you got a money market account, you know what I'm saying? If you got investments like financial investments that you make, some people are less risk adverse. For you to be dating somebody who's long distance, it tells me a lot about your heart.
SPEAKER_03That's real, that's real.
SPEAKER_05To me anyway, you know what I'm saying? Because like for for because that's that's a great level of like trust.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, honestly. Yeah, because I've I've been scarred in that type of dynamic before. Damn.
SPEAKER_05So like that's what I'm saying. So like it just it just to me the circumstances raise the stakes and it puts you in a position where maybe you can test the validity of someone's integrity, yes, their commitment, man, them holding and honoring their word, yeah, without you being there to micromanage or control it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Because at distance, if I don't want to pick up my phone, especially we got a time zone difference. Oh my god I got every excuse built in in the book, honestly. But the fact that you're responsive to me, yeah, no matter the complications or the the hurdles, you know what I'm saying? So it just kind of all to me kind of kind of builds ingredients in case-by-case scenarios where you get to decide if that person's right for you. And I want to I like I want to share this with the audience. Like, if I can speak directly to y'all, no one can tell you who is right for you. No one can arrange the perfect circumstances for you. Like, please hear me when I say you have to build the skill and the character within to date successfully and then be in a relationship successfully that then becomes fruit or bears fruit to the quality of your relationship. That's good. And I think like as a community, we have to do better about that. Like vetting. You know what I'm saying? Like taking self-accountability. Can you love yourself before you can love somebody else? Can you can you can you sit alone and enjoy it? Yeah, that's it. You know what I'm saying? Like, I believe that's where the investment starts, is you counting your own pocketbook before you try and combine your coins.
SPEAKER_03That's good.
SPEAKER_05And I know that like that seems like it's um I know that seems obvious, but based on my observations, it's not obvious. I'm seeing a lot of men and women like being on the opposite sides of the street, metaphorically. It's uh instead of us walking together hand in hand, and then our children get the overflow of that. And so I just say all that to say, man, like it just made me, it sent me into a um a line of thoughts around what does it take to invest in a family bond and then what does that look like from the beginning with two individuals? Because now you have the spine of whatever you hold in your heart, it spawn out and it multiplies and it bears fruit. And just being more thoughtful about like where's the starting line? Being more thoughtful about like who we are before we try and label what we are. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_03That's good, yeah.
SPEAKER_05So I've been on family vacation, that's where I've been, and I didn't see my wife, my kids, and my mama. I didn't see my family. Yeah where you been at, Hen? Who you see?
SPEAKER_03Yeah. First, I want to say just seeing you, your family, man, that's revolutionary. Right. So like a black family, man enjoying enjoying themselves. You don't you don't really see that, you know, nowadays, man. You don't. Yeah, I see I feel like we need to see more of that, honestly. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I appreciate you guys. Yes, sir, yes, sir, for sure, for sure. Yes, sir. Where I've been at, man, uh where where haven't I been at? Uh recently I was in uh OKC uh at the uh tonight's conversation. That was that was dope. Yeah, that was quite an experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05In fact, in fact, um the tonight's conversation, you were there and it was coming on camera.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05So we gonna we're gonna see what happened at the tonight's conversation and then we're gonna break it down. You ready? I'm ready. Let's go, baby.
SPEAKER_04What's up? Um, my name is Henry Mayor, but thank you for the time. Um, um as a so this is my uh question. As a barber or hair therapist, I noticed that several men report feeling valued for what they provide rather than who they are. What can women do to make men feel emotionally supported, seen, and cared for in relationships, especially when they're struggling with their mental health.
SPEAKER_05Man, that's the like what what inspired this question in front of this crowd of what seemingly looks like hundreds of people?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, honestly. I want to say it was like I want to say close to a thousand. Woo! Yep, close to a thousand. Huge, man. It was out of numbers, man. Yeah, yeah. So what was crazy is like it was a lot of people who put in their whole question, but they only selected, I want to say about 10, 10 people.
SPEAKER_05And so you just happened to be selected randomly. And did you know like beforehand, or you knew when you like they let y'all know spontaneously, like when y'all were there?
SPEAKER_03So like they have shot one episode with a different panel because the event was it was like two hours and some change long, so it was two different episodes. Oh wow, yeah, buddy. Shout out, shout out to to the tonight's conversation, man. Their whole structure is dope as they're yeah, Ace, man, you got a good thing.
SPEAKER_05Like, we we aspire after what you're doing, my brother.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, honestly, honestly. So after that first uh episode, um then they announced the the question that was selected for the next episode. And we uh and they they uh showcased um basically like the uh letters. And I when I saw mine, I was like, oh man, that's crazy. But what's crazy before before even going in, walking into the building, I was like, man, look, I got my I got two questions. I have a feeling. I have a feeling that they my question might be selected, but we'll go ahead and find out. But yeah, the power of manifestation. Wow. Yeah, so uh they they they brought us they brought us there, the people that were uh selected, and they just kind of gave us like a rundown. Now, just because you were selected did not guarantee you was gonna go up there. Oh yeah, I think out of out of 10, I want to say, I think I want to say that they only went through eight questions. Oh wow I was number seven. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think six or seven. It was just bound to be. Man, boss, man. It's it's it's crazy, man. It's dope. It's dope. Yeah, so but what inspired that question, man? I I really wanted to like represent us men because like we're not we're not being talked about. You know, I feel like nobody really cares, you know, and I as a barber, I I hear the most. I'm at the place where blacks, especially black men, especially, like they open up about how they feel. And I'm like, man, man, I can have a question for general dating. Or man, I can really tackle a question that's that's serious, you know, that that men that men need. Like, women, listen.
SPEAKER_05And I love the way you phrased the question. Like You get you validated the question by saying, as a barber or a hair therapist, which everybody in that room knows, like that's almost like the sanctuary for black men is the barber's chair. Yeah. You got more influence a lot of times than like the pastors, the uncle, the kids, like the therapist. And so, like, for you to validate the question with that and to report it back from that space, you said I noticed that several men report being value for what they provide, yeah, rather than who they are.
SPEAKER_03Heavy. Heavy.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Before you even got to the woman's part.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05You know what I'm saying? So, like, I would like to ask you this. Like, generally speaking, what do you hear men say about who they are? Even if they don't directly state it. Like, what is your sense? What is your takeaway from who we are?
SPEAKER_03Uh, honestly, uh most most men feel like failures. Yep. Yep. Most men feel feel like failures. Um, again, this it's a pressure that society puts on us that I feel like majority of the pressure is self-inflicted. You know, because it stems from what you talked about here earlier. Self-love. You know, we don't we don't even know how to love ourselves. Like, what is that? You know, we it's funny how you see men plan and you know do the most utmost on for Mother's Day, but forget their own day. It happens every year. And I I try to give incentives to men at a point I'm just like, man, it don't even matter. They don't even, you know what I'm saying? But yeah, the lack of self-love, most men feel like failures, and um, yeah, it's truly, it's truly heart, heartbreaking. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Okay, when you said men feel like failures, that cut deep.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Because what we provide doesn't even validate us. Let alone the validation we're trying to give to whoever we're providing for.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, facts. Is that kind of deep? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And most men wrap their identity within what they do. So most of them don't even know who they even are. Their identity is their work, what they do. I'm just uh, you know. I said, man, brother, you far more than that. I never tapped into that.
SPEAKER_05And the panelists, by the way, they all, uh I think it was three of the panelists did answer your question, but I think it was Mike who talked about there's an attack on male expressiveness. Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And men need to be vocal about where they hurt. And maybe as men, and I'm paraphrasing by the way, we shouldn't start with provision and protection.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Yes. That's that's deep. That was very deep. That's deep. That was deep.
SPEAKER_05He said, if a woman turns her nose up, and I'm paraphrasing to the park or a picnic. Oh my goodness, man. That that should be a red flag or a yellow flag to pause before you take her home. Facts. Because women have been programmed to ask for provision and protection from a man before getting to know who he is. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_03So have we been set up for failure? Yeah. I mean, from your perspective, I think, I think we have. Yeah, I think, I think we have. You know, just the whole, I remember um going on, you know, just dating and whatever. I came to the to the restaurant, she was like, Where are my flowers? I said, excuse me. This is our first interaction, what do you mean? But she was like, dear serious. You know, like, man, you don't even I don't even know you. You know, you wanted me to provide you flowers right out the junk? I don't understand.
SPEAKER_05Okay, so let's reverse engineer that for a second. Maybe the premise around getting to know the opposite sex has been set wrong. So, what do I mean by that? Maybe chivalry shouldn't be a baseline. That's something that we withhold until we've gotten to a place where we are both understanding we like each other.
SPEAKER_00Because if you're going on your first date, you know, why do I need why would you expect flowers from me on the first date?
SPEAKER_02Crazy.
SPEAKER_05When we're just getting to know each other as individuals, maybe it's not, maybe we're not going in looking for uh a platonic relationship or looking for a friend, but I I don't know that I see that any different than you know, you going to your first day on a job, or you know, when you go into an environment um where we're getting to know each other as opposed to having an expectation that I should be receiving something already. I know that might not be popular, but if I notice you and I'm attracted to you, even if it's just physically, I don't know that that should set an expectation.
SPEAKER_02Uh shouldn't you know?
SPEAKER_05And then who's to say that she couldn't bring you flowers on the first day?
SPEAKER_03Because most men only get flowers at their funeral. Oh I know that's a whole different junk. Oh that's a whole different junk. We don't gotta get into that.
SPEAKER_05Say say a little louder here. You guys say it again.
SPEAKER_03Most men receive flowers at uh at their funeral, and by then it's it's too late. Yeah, yeah, but that would be awesome. If I man, what she will stand out for sure.
SPEAKER_05For sure because that's not happening. That's not happening, yeah. Not that we know of, yeah, not that's being testified about, not that anyone is publicizing. Yeah, wow. Okay, this is the second part to the question. What can women do to make men feel emotionally supported, seen, and cared for in relationships, especially when they are struggling with their mental health?
SPEAKER_03What women can do?
SPEAKER_00Women listen, listen, um, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Create a space for us to feel safe enough to even share our struggles. That some of the things that we are struggling with with our mental health that space is very important.
SPEAKER_00Um and yeah, just just be intentional.
SPEAKER_03You know, like the reaction that we did with the lady, her talking about the statistics of male suicide. She understands the pressure that men go through, especially black men. We all felt seen. We don't know that lady, don't know her, but in that one-minute video, that woman made me feel s I went from being like this to smiling at the end because man, I I felt seen. Ladies, we we are simple. Honestly, honestly, and yeah, just just stuff like that, man. Just being being in being intentional, being it being intentional. You know how like um I think Ace kind of touched on it. Um he was like, um, man, we don't get dot dot dot backed. Yeah, like reciprocity. Reciprocity. Reciprocity.
SPEAKER_05That's that's yeah, he said men don't get things bought back, yes, plan dates back, listened back, chosen back. He said there is an expectation for men to be the ones to give. And that expectation is not reciprocated back.
SPEAKER_03Yep, yep. And I think that he said we want that. Yeah, honestly, honestly. I think this is false narrative, and I I I blame the media, I blame trauma. This false narrative, and I had a conversation with another woman. I'm like, hey, well, she expressed how like she is the one who is supposed to be chased throughout the relationship, even after you know, the dating phase and y'all relationship. In my head, I'm like, if we both like each other, I think it's a we should be both be pursuing each other. Cat and mouse. You know what I'm saying? Like, it shouldn't be the only guy, you know, chasing, and that's just the narrative that a lot of people uh uh believe, especially like a lot of women believe. So it's like I don't think they even know how to reciprocate that back because it hasn't been shown.
SPEAKER_05Man, and I and I and I could say this as well, just to add to what you're saying. I think that um my perspective, our nervous system is best in predictable situations.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05So when you say set setting a uh a safe space, creating a safe space, what that looks like for me is a routine.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Which means that you prioritize me just like you do sleep, just like you do drinking water, just like breathing in and exhaling, it's not a choice as much as it is a necessity. And if I can't be or or if I can't be made to feel like a necessity in your life, then my value will always be in question. Yeah. And so if a man is willing to go out of his way to show you that he wants to love you, he wants to shower you, he wants to be there for you when you most need him, then without him saying anything, you should be looking for an opportunity to give that back. And I think if we can compete in that area, we could both win at the same time. So if I if I if I if I happen to give you uh a foot rub that you didn't ask for, I offered it. I offered it. And then I I I believe this, Henry. I believe that when people I think it's a part of our nature that when we give, if if if we love ourselves, when we give, we are looking for it to be replenished.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes, honestly.
SPEAKER_05Only a person, I I I truly see it this way. Only a person who does not place a value and a standard on themselves is giving to someone in a marriage, and they don't expect anything back. Now I know we're told, particularly in my traditions, you know, agape love, unconditional love. You know, when you give, you shouldn't expect it back. Don't give with any expectation.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05But that that goes against science.
unknownMan. Man.
SPEAKER_05It goes against it goes against nature.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And so when you talk about what a woman can do, I think what underpins your whole question is especially when that man is struggling in his mental health. Now, I may be able to take a lot more uh negligence. That's the key right there. If I'm okay. But when my chips are down, life is hard, and I'm trying to work through this mind field of whatever problems I have, and you're still not showing up for me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Now the expectations have become unrealistic. And what tends to happen because of the premise that's been set around what women should expect from men is if that man starts to complain, he got a man up.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05If that man does express, if he has enough courage, because most of us don't even really don't embrace the language of emotions.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05But if that man does say, let's say let's say, let's say he's hurting, but he says you pissing him off. And you can't hear the hurt in his throat, yeah. You can't hear the shake in his voice, you can't hear the disappointment that he's been swallowing this whole time.
SPEAKER_03It breaks my heart, man. It really does. Um I I I want to say this and then I have like a real life example. Ladies, uh the role of a man, yes, provide, protect, all that stuff, but we we want to be provided for. We want to feel protected, especially when it comes to our mental and our emotional state. Uh man, I have a close friend, and he was really struggling, man, with some mental stuff, man. I'm talking about some deep, serious mental stuff, man. And he had finally had the courage to share his state with his wife, and instead of her checking in and embracing him, she put it back on like the family. How can you feel how can you feel that way? How would your children feel? How would our dynamic feel? Like it it it man, my heart hurt.
SPEAKER_05It was a guilt trip.
SPEAKER_03It was a guilt trip, yeah. So he can't even be in that emotion. I'm truly grateful that you know I was he was able to confide in me, man, because he was at his, let's just say, last straw.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. And thank God for the barber.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, boss, man. I wish Barbara Barbara's a hairstyle. I know I said it before, but if we can see the importance of our position in our community, man, it's yeah, we can really, really, truly help a lot of people. It's it's bigger than the money. Yeah, bigger than the money.
SPEAKER_05Man, that has been um a role that I have played um in my career of leading or pastoring people or being someone that people have looked to as influential in their life, particularly with men. Like, I think the biggest block that I've seen is I'll sit down because I've I've done uh counseling, coaching for many, many years with couples, particularly uh particularly in the church context. And so what I found the biggest hurdle was men needing backup in these conversations. Because the conversation that me and that man would have when he felt like he could be um uncensored, he would go into that conversation with the woman present, filtered. Yes, oh he would filter it.
SPEAKER_03I see.
SPEAKER_05And I would take notice. I would say, I wonder why.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_05He's being so honest and candid with me. But then when he would get in the presence of her, he would filter it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, the atmosphere, yeah.
SPEAKER_05And I found myself having to encourage his voice in the presence of that woman because I do believe that we're doing a woman a disservice if we are being um, if if we're trying to filter the brunt of how it could make her feel.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Because she has to know, and I think I think Mike said that as well. Um he essentially said that men have to be um vocal about where they hurt because we can't come home wanting the woman to tend to a wound and she don't know where we're bleeding.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, that's good. That's fine, yeah.
SPEAKER_05So his whole thing was like, it's tough to get women to fix a male problem.
SPEAKER_03A male problem, yeah. I remember that.
SPEAKER_05You know what I'm saying? And he said, like, SOS, something other than sex. And that's another thing that I think women have been conditioned, programmed because of their relationship history or the man that they've been with, whatever experiences that they've had. Society, yeah, society, yeah, what they've seen in uh you know, media, music, uh what they breathe almost is that all men want is the yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And if you if if you a man who's not depraved, men want more than men want more than the excuse my French for all the mothers and the daughters and all, I ain't trying to offend nobody, but we just keeping it real at this table today. Like, men want more than that. And in fact, all it is is a physical exchange when there's no emotional connection. It's instantaneous, it's in an instant, it's here and it's gone. So you didn't really make an investment. All you did was swap fluids.
SPEAKER_03How you feel about that, here? Am I answering that? Nah, you you you right you right in there, brother. You right there, man. I've there has been a difference being physically intimate with a woman, and there's a there's no emotional connection there, versus being physically intimate with a woman, and there is an emotional connection, far big difference, night night and day. Night and day. Yeah. And it's like it's.
SPEAKER_05And it's it's like like like I'ma just be transparent. Like, don't it feel like a meal that was home cooked and it kind of sit on your stomach? And you satisfied versus you just grab the burger from McDonald's. And that thing runs through you.
SPEAKER_03You feel disgusted. I feel disgusted, man. I feel disgusted.
SPEAKER_05Does that make sense, bro?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, boss, man. I'm telling you, man, a lot of a lot of sad to say, a lot of men experience that in relationship dynamics. And it's it's unfortunate. It's unfortunate. Yeah. I know I experienced that in my pre-marriage. Absolutely. But yeah, there's this. Imagine, you know, you having the need, but instead of it being water that refreshes, it's constantly Coca-Cola. Gatorade.
SPEAKER_05It's empty callus.
SPEAKER_03It's empty, man. And it it it it just makes you feel disgusted to where it turns into resentment and you just become bitter. You know, like the thing that's supposed to refresh you is making you more bitter.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. And we be out we be in our head about that too, ladies. Like if I could be, I'm gonna I'm gonna look y'all in your eye. Like, we be in our we be in our head about that. Like when you when you have a uh an unsatisfactory sexual encounter, it ain't so easy as we just move on. Like again, there's all these talkings of talking points about how men can just just have sex and move on. And we can. I don't want to completely disregard, because we can, but if that man has evolved and we are whole and and we are we are uh aware of our emotions and and our intelligence, it it becomes a greater uh greater honor around our bodies and around what we have to offer. That's why you hear about some men now talking about uh semen retention. Yeah, because we've we've learned through science that there is real energy and power in our release. And when you give it to somebody who can't receive it because there's a block emotionally, then you felt like you wasted something about yourself. Literally, yeah.
SPEAKER_00You feel me? Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's heavy.
SPEAKER_05So men ain't you you you know I'm saying I know that you know it's it's like it's like we've devolved the best of who we are as creations and and humans and and light and energy and water and electricity. We've devolved ourselves down to transactions. Yeah, and that's also playing a part in our worsening mental health because you move back around, yeah. It's like it's like you go to a well of water expecting a drink, yeah, but it's it's no water, yeah. So it looks like it feels like it. Yeah, but there's no nourishment. And obviously that starts within, but I I do think that there's a yin and a yang. There's a there is a dependency whether we want it to be or not on the male and the female polars. Yeah. And them coming together or staying apart.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, honestly. Honestly, and it goes back to um again being intentional and listening to your partner. Um, towards the end, though, um, you can kind of see them like kind of filtering just a tad bit with the women on the panel talking about uh when Ace talked about how sometimes as men we are afraid to express our desires when it comes to sex without it being weird and y'all feeling like we're policing your body. Yeah. That's a big thing. That's a big thing. Okay, expound on that, yeah. Expound on that.
SPEAKER_05You just open, you just open another door, expand on that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. No, I I feel like I feel like, you know, first of all, like sex should be like a safe space for both parties to express. You know, if one person can express, like, let's say, let's say it's a woman, if she can freely express, you know, what she wants, what she desires in the bedroom, like it's cool. Why is it, you know, somewhat of a problem when it's the the man? And then it's it's like some women take it deeper, or where'd you where'd you get the desire from? Where'd you what you what you've been thinking about? Like, I mean, I might just be genuinely clean. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_04I can't even share that with you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, then you just you just step all the way back. Yeah, that's what most men do. We just ladies, this man, we might open up maybe one, two times, but that rejection, a lot of us deal with that abandonment issue. That rejection, we just we just go inward, yeah. And unfortunately, it's somebody else who's willing to hear that expression, yeah. You know, it's sad that it has to be that way, but that's what tends to happen, that's what tends to lead to that, and I can definitely uh attest to that.
SPEAKER_05I've I've read actually uh to your point, Henry, that the uh gateway to your sexuality is familiarizing yourself with your own body. Yes, and so where a lot of us have been discouraged from masturbation, it's actually healthy when it's not shamed.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, when it's not shamed, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Because it's the way that you get to familiarize yourself with your own pleasures and the safety of your own body. Man, and you're not depending on someone else imputing their experiences into you. That's heavy. And superimposing their sexual experiences onto you, that's heavy. And so even in my even in my even in my faith tradition and Christianity and what I've been raised and reared in, no shame or guilt on anyone, but it's harmful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05What we were taught as children, as our brains were developing. Man, science says as your brain develops and as you come into a certain age, pleasure, lust, play is a big part of your brain developing. And that prefrontal cortex, your judgment, your long-term decision making ain't developed. But you were forced to believe and think that there's this outside entity looking down on you and making you feel like if you don't get this right, you're gonna miss life. When actually we should be able to have open conversations with our children about their bodies, about their um their desires, how their body, you know, you're starting to become aroused by certain things you see, by certain things you smell. Yeah. That's real. And then we protect the predators who the adults that are, we can we can allude to it, you can see it, you can hear it. There's certain things being said, but we'll protect that because we're continuing uh a poor toxic cycle. Let me not get you far down that road. But that's like a passion of mine. Yeah, that's real, is like not spiritually bypassing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, not spiritually bypassing, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Because it all ties back into the male's mental health. We were not taught it was okay for us to explore ourselves first alone, become okay being in your own body. Because we've been shamed. Even as an athlete, bro, like I'm sure you can, I'm sure that I'm sure you know what the locker room was like. I was, I mean, I was in the locker room.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05You know what I'm saying? Like, if if if there was any if there was any way you didn't measure up, because you're you're kind of like a meat market. Honestly.
SPEAKER_03Honestly. Yep, honestly.
SPEAKER_05Like if we get down, if we get down to some of our childhood stuff, like even as an athlete, you're a meat market. So it's a certain way you gotta present, it's a certain way you gotta look. It's certain, you know, if you don't jump high enough, you don't run fast enough. You know what I'm saying? If you don't have enough strength, man, all of those labels are put on you while you're growing and developing into your own body and your own self. It's a lot, it's a lot, it's a lot, bro. And then you get before a woman, and then you've been told all of these things before you ever really even get to experience it. And then you gotta fake the phone. You gotta act like you've been there before and you ain't never been there before.
SPEAKER_03For me, it was it was pornography at an early age. Yeah, that was that was my only teacher, quote unquote. And then you got a fake now. Yep, yep, got a fake, yeah.
SPEAKER_05I'm I I I mean, we we can we can unpack that all day. Yeah, yeah. Thanks. But my my line of thought on it is like I have three teenagers. I just sat down with them the other day, bro, and gave like they laughed at me. I told them, I said, I got a whole PowerPoint for y'all. But I gave them a whole PowerPoint on a survival kit around dating as a teenager. I walked them step by step through it. Oh, that's good. And I told them as teenagers, it's not your job to make a life decision. Yeah, this is building skills, this is building character. This is teaching you how to show up when it does actually count. So if you're gonna date, it's the practice field. It ain't the game. Ain't nobody keeping score yet.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05That's deep. Nobody sat me down and had that conversation with me, yeah. Wow, that's powerful. You know what I'm saying? So, like, just thinking about how we show up as adults, yeah, all of that is like an accumulation of what happened to us up to that point. Yeah, facts. So when you get before a woman as an adult and they and they label you a freak, and that's relative anyway, because there's levels to this. You thinking I'm a freak, but you ain't really met one. Honestly. Honestly, just because it's not your norm, yeah. You know what I'm saying? So, like, I I love, I love the question that you pose. I think that question is loaded. Yeah, it is, it is, and we didn't get to go into the panelists' responses just because of the length of the clip, yeah, but they were all like you kind of got them to speak from their own heart. Yeah, yeah, honestly. Because even Trill, man, like, and again, I'm paraphrasing, I don't want to take you know any words out of their mouth that they said, but even Trill was like a woman should listen without being offended and don't attack him when he opens up. Because if you attack him when he opens up and he puts his sword down, then he wasn't coming expecting to fight. Now you made him feel like you're an enemy.
SPEAKER_03Man, yes, that's heavy.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that was heavy, and that's a big thing that we're trying to like break the mold on being two men on a podcast talking about you know where our heart, our hearts are because it's too much macho men. And our macho is just like a costume for our ego that's been hurt, it's like a shield.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so so that little boy, yeah.
SPEAKER_05It's that little boy you're trying to cover. You know what I'm saying? And like you said earlier, a lot of us we're thinking that providing and protecting is who we are, yeah, and it's not. It's not it's not so let me ask you this, bro. Like on your journey, and we'll we'll we'll uh we'll digress here, but like on your journey, you know what I'm saying? I've been married, divorced, remarried, you've been married, divorced. Um both of us have been very intentional, you know what I'm saying? We've shared with each other privately, we've been in therapy, and all the things that we're learning and growing with.
SPEAKER_00You're a barber, so you have like uh you're informed.
SPEAKER_05You know what I'm saying? You're informed on trauma, you're informed on what it looks like for a man to go through healing. What would you say is your your ratio of men that sit in your chair that are like not mentally injured or mentally ill?
SPEAKER_00That are that are not that are not what would you say the percentages?
SPEAKER_03One in twenty. One in twenty, bro?
SPEAKER_00It's not a lot of men doing any work. There's not a lot of men doing any work. This is why we're here. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think I said on the last episode, not only do men um not forget most men forget about Father's Day, most men didn't know the June was men's mental health month.
SPEAKER_05You know, so that's real though. Yeah, it's always not laughing at, just laughing, not laughing at the men, but just laughing at the fact that we are that underappreciated.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, honestly, honestly, and and again, it falls back to society, it falls back to what we we we were taught. For me, religion played a big part in that. Um, this my whole when I used to be uh uh Christian, it was this constant, like the family quote unquote comes is is the family comes first, like I'm last. Do you know how many men? My kids come first. My kid, if they come first, uh have them pay the bills. You know what I'm saying? So it's like when you understand that that you are a priority, you are first. If you are not straight, everyone else can't be straight.
SPEAKER_05That's right.
SPEAKER_03You know what I'm saying? That's right.
SPEAKER_05When you write, I'm with you, man. Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_03Every most men I I deal with business, corporate America, yada yada. Bro, are you even on your planner? Are you even on your agenda? But you got family this, you got work this.
SPEAKER_02Where where are you at in your that shows that you're not even you don't even populatize yourself? Yeah, it's only a matter of time before you crash out. You were just a ticking time bump.
SPEAKER_05Man, can I speak to that here? That's so good, man. Like, because I'm married, you know. I'm saying I got four children, I have a wife, you know, I have outside priorities in my family. And I wanna I wanna empathize with that for a minute because a lot of times we like I I'm not gonna speak for anybody, I'm gonna speak from my perspective. Like, I got married, I first got married when I was 24 years old. Oh wow. So before I knew it, like I didn't even really know what I was getting myself into.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_05Like being real with you. Like, I didn't at 24, bro, like I didn't really know. Like, think about when you were 24.
SPEAKER_01Your brain ain't fully developed.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, your brain is I was like, my brain is not even fully developed. So, like, I didn't necessarily know what I was getting myself into. Um and then before I knew it, we were pregnant with my first child. So things got out the gate really fast for me in life. And before I knew it, in my attempt to do the best I could to provide for my family, to protect a family that I didn't know what I was getting myself into, I lost myself. You know what I'm saying? And you know, like I've shared in the past, like I I I got good at putting up a look, but on the inside, I didn't even know what I was missing because it got away from me so fast. And so I want to empathize with men, you know, we're neither Henry or I are speaking from a place of arrival, but we're speaking from a place of invitation. We're speaking from a place of example of don't make the mistake. Yeah, like even if you're there right now, if you find yourself in this place of giving, giving, giving, giving, giving, eventually you will have nothing to give out of an empty cup.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, literally, literally, yeah.
SPEAKER_05You know what I'm saying? And so it's it's really around taking an evaluation. Just stop and think about it for a minute. If I look at every hour of my day, am I just surviving? Am I just trying to hold on so that I don't get ran over? Or do I have any say-so or control around what's best for me? Take that time out because to an extent, the woman can't be there for you when you don't know how to be there for yourself. Because she can make attempt after attempt after attempt, but it's not gonna land because you don't even know what you want. Yeah, facts. You know what I'm saying? And so whether you 21, 18, 25, 30, 35, 40, 50, 55, 60, 70, no matter where you're at in life, if you feel like you're losing, the game clock ain't hit zero yet. You feel me? It ain't hit zero yet. Call a huddle. Yeah, call a timeout and regroup. Yeah. And then get back in the game, but not taking time out for yourself, no matter how busy your day is, no matter how many people you have depending on you, is gonna send you into an early grave. I got online the other day and I saw uh a man who's who man, one of the most positive people I seen online. He was like 48, 49 years old, had a heart attack. Wow.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_05Kind of threw me for a loop. I'm like, man, this is one of the most positive people. Always like never saying a bad thing about anybody, had no negative commentary on nothing. Always uh empowering, enriching. Had a heart attack.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_05You know what I'm saying? You don't have no heart attack out of nowhere, bro. Your heart is a muscle, just like any other muscle in your body. Yeah, and if you're not taking care of your heart, it will tell you I'm done. So I have a lot of men around like that are in that 35, 45, 50 range right now. I like every week it seems like I'm hearing about their heart feeling some kind of way. Whether it's a heart attack, hypertension, stroke, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah. So eventually what you don't address, your body will tell on you. Yes. Your body will tell on you. So, like, on one end, this goes from like your relationship with your partner, whether that's a male, female, female, female, male, male, whatever it is, and it filters down to your relationship with yourself. Yeah, the lowest common denominator is what's going on inside of your body. And so, I mean, I'm sure you had to make some decisions, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, you an athlete, so you probably always like taking care of your body, yeah, but emotionally you can work out as much as you want. Man, if you're holding in what's harming you, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's still gonna give out.
SPEAKER_03That's what they was in teaching.
SPEAKER_05It's all about the next win. It's all about the next victory. It's not about the journey along the way.
SPEAKER_03And it just translates into life.
unknownMan.
SPEAKER_03The next promotion. The next business opportunity. Man. Where am I at mentally and emotionally? Oh, that's for females.
SPEAKER_05Man. That's why I encourage men to journal, meditate, spend spend time in quietness and stillness. If you pray, pray. Find a place where you can cry.
SPEAKER_03That's it. Find a place where you can cry. That's it. Even if it's by yourself. Cry. You must release tears.
SPEAKER_05They're a language all on their own. They they will give you language where words can't get it done. Put you a rag wherever you can go and be alone. And every time you cry, put those tears in that rag. Don't wash it. That's it. Store those tears. Because it's it's it's it's symbolic of you leaving what's within outside of you. Outside of you. That's it. Decompress. So I love I love the question. I love that you went to the tonight's conversation. And for you to be in this space where we're sharing right now on this podcast, and you to be able to be selected to bring this back to our table that we're building, for seats to be pulled up, it's all interconnected, bro. So so salute to you. I think one of them even said, Man, thank you for for the courage to stand up and ask a question like that. Because in that room, in that room, although they're able to draw a gathering in a crowd, yeah, the basis of it is really because men and women are divided.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, honestly. Honestly. And it was majority women there. Yeah, I won't say 80%. 80%, yeah. 80% women. 80% women, yeah.
SPEAKER_05So really, if you want a woman, like if you're a man, that's where you need to be at. It's tonight's conversation.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05That's what's up. That's what's up. Well, I want to I want to end uh I want to end this off here, man, just to uh closing segment. Um, I'll be I'll be transparent, man. I I actually learned this in therapy. This is a this is a tool that I learned in therapy that I just wanted to share and make it a segment on the show, man. Um, how can how can we ask ourselves higher quality questions? How do you raise the quality of the question that you ask yourself, man? So I just want to volley this back and forth and then we're gonna close out quickly. But um here's a question. What part of me is actually me and what part was inherited? What's a better question that you you you maybe could ask yourself? What's a higher quality question you can ask yourself? I feel like that is a high quality question.
SPEAKER_03Um for me, I would say what's the next question? What's the next question? Okay, I like that. I like that. Uh am I living my life or someone else's?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That says I know, I know I had to ask myself that in my early 20s. You know, having the expectation of, you know, being an engineer, being uh minister, you know, is this is this my life or someone else's? That's so yeah, and a lot of especially not immigrant children, a lot of us are living our parents' lives subconsciously.
SPEAKER_05So that's a non-negotiable in your culture.
SPEAKER_03Oh man, what is it?
SPEAKER_05Like the so okay, what what's the what's the what's the word or what's the how would you phrase that? Like, are you are you is like your is your life arranged for you, or how would you describe that?
SPEAKER_03Kind of, yeah. I feel like um, and I learned this term in therapy too, uh, enmeshment. It becomes it can become so toxic to where it can become like a cultic, like your family's like a cultic dynamic. We are only engineers, we are only nurses, we are only that is what we do, that is what we accept. No children out of wedlock. Like, you know, I was the only one out of wedlock. That that led to, you know, mom being kicked out at an early age. I had to live with my father. Wow. That's stuff is that stuff is real. So it's like me being an engineer is not just, you know, that's gonna be a great career for me. No, it's gonna make the family look good. You know, like it's for the family. You should want to be an engineer, you should want to be a nurse for the family, for the for the, you know, it it's just it's just it's just deep enmeshed. It's enmeshed, man. It's yeah, it can it can be really toxic.
SPEAKER_05Man, but I can I can I can identify with that, bro, like being a preacher's kid.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_05So you feel me? So like like you know what I'm saying, my parents were heavy in the church, you know what I'm saying? Like, and they weren't there and we weren't there. Like, we was going along with them. Yeah, and so like for us, there would and still to this day, even, bro, like, even though I'm called myself and I've I've I've I'm resting in that now, but there was a time uh for a large portion of my life where I felt like it was just expected of me that I was gonna be a preacher because my parents were preachers. And it was imposed on me, bro. And not only that, like I had to carry every label that came with that. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying? And it was never enough. It was never enough, it was never enough, and then my last name is Vassal. So like I have a very unique, particularly black name. Ain't nobody else. I know name vassal except my family. That's so true. That's so true. You know what I'm saying? So it was like a none of it. So it man, what's crazy is in uh in the French it means a vessel of the king. That's fire. Yeah, so that's dope. So yeah, you you you're a servant. Yeah, and so that's that. And that and that's my that's my heart, man. Like that's that is my family. Like, that's crazy. What our name means is what we embody. Like, that is a common thread. There's a servanthood with us.
SPEAKER_03That's told.
SPEAKER_05But um, but yeah, bro. I can I can I can I can totally get with that, man.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05But the this was crazy. I'm gonna say this when we're done. But a lot of times what's not earned carries a guilt with it. So if if like think about it, like a trust fund, baby, most of the time they trick off the fortune, don't they?
SPEAKER_03They do.
SPEAKER_05Because they didn't earn it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, at all.
SPEAKER_05And they carry a guilt about having it. And so I had to struggle with the guilt of filling a call, but then people trying to label me as a preacher's kid and having to look a certain way with it. Wow. Even now, man, I'm a recovering people pleaser. You told me, you taught me that, bro. Even now, I'm a recovering people pleaser. So there's a lot of layers to that. That's real. Honestly. And so many people I know y'all can identify with that. I know y'all can that that resonates with you so much. Um that's dope. Okay. Well, that's it, man. Like, that's that's a that's a that's a really dope way to ask that question. I think that's what we want to leave y'all with. Like, what part of you is actually you and what part was inherited, or are you living the life you want to live? Or are you living the life of someone else? Yeah. So that's good. As always, this is the after podcast. We're gonna land this plane. My co, my co-host, my co-pilot, Henry the Barber over there. Of course, your boy Brandon. Um, until next time, we're gonna highlight you again. Yes, sir. Like, follow, share. Peace.