That Pickleball Podcast
The best minds in pickleball, one conversation at a time.
Most pickleball advice is a pile of tips. These conversations go deeper — with the players, coaches, and thinkers shaping the game. Strategy, mindset, and the decisions that actually decide points. Not hacks. Not drills you'll forget. The stuff that changes how you see the court.
Hosted by Tyler Coston of That Pickleball Brand.
That Pickleball Podcast
Episode 02 - Reading the Game Like a Pro
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The best pickleball players aren't just hitting good shots—they're constantly asking questions and reading the answers. Tyler and Zach break down pro-level adjustments, targeting weaknesses, side-switch strategy, dinking patterns, and how to make smarter decisions during a match.
Most players switch sides and just keep playing. But the best teams use that 20 seconds to change the entire match. And here's what nobody teaches you. The side switch is a decision point. Sun, when, who's getting picked on, which matchup's working, all of it flips when you change ends, and not just because you change sides, because of the adjustments you make. On this episode, we're going to break down what actually changed at the side switch in a recent MLP Challenger, what Zach said, how the pros make adjustments, and the specific things you should be looking for the next time you switch sides of the net. This is that pickleball podcast, and let's get into it. Zach, that was the first time I did an intro. What'd you think?
SPEAKER_01I think uh it was great. But I think Earl was great. So does that mean there's no songs that no, no, we're gonna get a song.
SPEAKER_02Okay, because otherwise I wouldn't have agreed to do this. What's uh okay, what what what should we make sure is in the songs that we should we wait till the end of the day?
SPEAKER_01Dude, you crushed the songs. I don't want to have any input because you're when hey, when your team is rolling and you're up 9-0, why would you change anything?
SPEAKER_02Okay, so I know you guys don't care about this, but I gotta share it. Zach, Charlie had probably her best basketball game of her life this weekend. Um, she got MVP of the championship game and we lost. Wow. I know that's the same something.
SPEAKER_01I promise you that anyone who's met Charlie does care.
SPEAKER_02Okay, all right. Thank you. Many of you have met Charlie anyway. She played great. Um, we played up a level, she was the biggest girl on our team, and so she had to guard this massive girl. So Charlie learned how to box out this weekend. Wow, what a treat!
SPEAKER_01Wow. I I want now I want to ask so many questions about that.
SPEAKER_02We made adjustments, you made in game adjustments for sure. All right. Well, uh actually, Zach, how about you set the stage for this whole thing, this post Kyle made, what they were doing, what happened. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_01Uh okay, that's a lot of pressure, but um usually you're the table setter. But yeah, so um as you as you guys all know, I think, or if you've read this book. They might not know. Okay, okay. If you don't know, okay, if you don't know, um Kyle and um his friend Elliot were playing in a PPA challenger this past weekend, and um they uh I normally will try to be there for all Kyle's tournaments, but I wasn't able to be there. So I was watching on a live stream, and they were playing two players that are both PPA signed players, both very good players.
SPEAKER_02And um they this this was game one Brandon French and Braden Jacobson. Correct. Is that right?
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah, yeah. And so um, anyways, I was watching on the stream as it sounds like many of you guys were, which is really cool. Um, and uh based on as you can see, based on the school in this post, if you saw the post in school.
SPEAKER_02Well, they might not even see the post in school. So, okay. So Kyle, no, you're doing great. Okay, I was I just I listened last week. I'm like, I talk too much. So I'm trying to talk about it. You're great at this point. All right. So Kyle and Elliot are down 2-6 in game one of the bronze medal matches after playing like 10 and a half hours because they they lost early, had to go through the backdraw, they're grinding. Um, I'll actually show this. Kyle texted me after they lost um to Kyle and uh Riley. Yeah, and he said, We lost in the backdraw. You won't get to see me on stream again until the bronze match.
SPEAKER_01Oh, love that. Right? That's really cool.
SPEAKER_02I know. So that was so my takeaway from that was he was already expecting to win and be in the bronze match. So if you're looking for takeaways here, that's a pro mindset. Like that's a champion's mindset, is you don't say, Well, we'll see what happens, we'll do our best. Of course you can do your best, but like expect to win and then live with the outcome. Okay, so it's huge. So they've been playing for a long time, playing bronze, two sided players, these guys we've already talked about, and they're down to six in game one, switch sides. Um, I didn't watch it live, I watched it much later, but I didn't know any of this backstory. I did see Ashley run up to Kyle with a phone at the side switch. I didn't talk to Ashley, Kyle, nobody.
SPEAKER_01And I'm like, I bet you Zach texted. That's okay, that's so interesting because I also saw that in the comments of this post. Yeah. And I don't know what I maybe I zoned out for a second. I never even actually saw that stream. So I don't maybe I went, got a glass of water. I'll throw a screenshot of it.
SPEAKER_02But I I remember seeing it specifically, and I thought that because just because I know you guys. So so then, and then I'll throw it to you, Zach, to say what you texted, what the change was, what you saw, all that stuff. So then they switched, they won the game. Um, they went on a 9-1 run, um, ended up winning 11-7, and then they won game two as well to take the match, earn the uh earn the bronze. So what what'd you see? What happened? What made you uh yeah, text?
SPEAKER_01Uh I think first and foremost, it's important to like, and I'm not saying this, uh it'll all make sense at the end, but it's important to understand that this is like what I do for my job. So um many of you have said in the comments, which I completely agree with, and this is where this is going, is that like, oh wow, now that this was told to me beforehand, that makes total sense. So what I'm getting at is I'll I'm I'm trying to avoid saying it's not that hard. But in a way, it's not that hard. If you're used to doing it, like in terms of seeing the adjustment. Like, I'm I'm not saying it's simple, I know it's not simple, but as many of you said yourselves in your comment, you're like, oh wow, yeah, now that I see it, that makes perfect sense. So my like, I don't even want to say ability, but my recognition of that was purely from just doing it all the time, you know? And and I don't want to go off on a tangent, but I think a big takeaway, hopefully for me, for you guys from this podcast, could be like, oh wow, I could just do this more often, like in terms of watch film, watch my opponent, watch my own film. And I could be light years better at this than I currently am. Um, so that's my first like spiel I wanted to get off my really good.
SPEAKER_02So uh one of my favorite phrases, everything becomes easy with practice. This is only easy for Zach because it is what he does. It's he watches film all the time. Kyle has mentioned to me so much. He's like, I don't know if anyone watches more film than Zach. And it's one of the things that Zach, I think, makes you so valuable as a coach, is you've watched film on everyone. So in the moment, all of a sudden, someone's playing somebody. You don't have to go and spend 10 hours of background. You've got it in your head because you've already done the work in advance. So that's what is special and unique. Now, um, just to punctuate what Zach said, what do we do? We just start watching for these things. And the more we watch them, the more they will become visible. That's what we do. We're not going to be Zach ever, but we can be, we can see more things just by looking for these things and having awareness that these things exist. Even just knowing the story, this happened, you now believe it could happen to you. You could be down 6'2 at a side switch and now believe, oh, with one small change, we can absolutely flip the script. But without that belief, you won't have the lens. Without the lens, you won't see anything.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's good. I think I on the drive here, I was trying to think of a way to kind of explain it in the way it looks in my head, that hopefully will also be a way that you can take and do it yourself. And I think I have a good way. Yeah, but if you tell use you steer me off course, it's terrible. All right, do it. So, like if you thought of like a video, if you if you've ever played a video game, which hopefully all of us either have or seen a video game. And um, let me set the stage a little bit. So, like Brandon French, I think uh Kyle might have said this in his post, has like Brandon French is playing the right side of the court, and he has a very dangerous slash aggressive forehand. Okay. Um, this kid Braden Jacobson is playing the left side of the court, and he's his like kind of quote unquote signature thing has become like his off-the-bounce two-handed backhand. Okay. So if you it is a weird wrist flipping, it's very I I I I can't even figure out what's happening. No, one can't. Okay. Um, so if you kind of like picture those two players on a video game and you picture their strengths like highlighted in a color, let's just call them red. Like, so if Brandon would be on the right and on the right side of his body, it would be red because you see this forehand. Right. And then same thing for Brayden on the left side of his body. Then if if their weaknesses were highlighted in another color, and or question marks with things we're uncertain of were highlighted in another color, let's call it for both of them the like, you know, let's uh Brandon, the right side player's backhand, let's just say it's blue. And because it's either a weakness or we don't know if it's a weakness, same for Braden. The inside of his body, his forehand, is either a question mark or weakness, it is also blue. So, like, if you see two question marks or weaknesses on your video screen right in right next to each other, then naturally you should figure out what happens when you put the ball there.
SPEAKER_02Does that make sense? Yeah, it's almost like a heads-up display in a military scenario or like a fighter jet, right? Yeah, yeah. It's like all the data is right there, and it's like target, target, target, avoid, danger, all that stuff.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I don't know. That might have been dumb.
SPEAKER_02I was trying to come up with a visual where it's like well, I think it's gonna be the thumbnail of the of the podcast, so we'll see how it looks, but I think it's a good idea. So, okay, so we'll come back to what actually saw there. Let's let's stick on this. So I got a question. Is it you were able to see this because you weren't playing in the match, you were just watching the match. How much harder is it to see when you're actually the one playing and you don't have a coach like you that's just watching?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean way harder. Yeah. Uh not because not because I'm maybe I'm a good coach, but but just because my only job is to sit there and look for this. Your job as a player is to do all of the things, you know, like it's it's it's why only so few players can do both effectively. And and I would even argue that many of those players actually aren't doing it to the degree that you might think. It's like let's say Ben Johns, for example, he is just so superior in his abilities that he knows the things that work for him, and within the framework of those things, he will know how you respond to it, if that makes sense. It's not like he is like uh leaving his body, watching from above and and and taking note of every single thing the opponent does, right? While he just goes on autopilot, it's more like he knows what he does better than anyone and he knows how they respond within the framework of what he has set up.
SPEAKER_02And tell me if you agree with this statement or not. The better player dictates the play. So because he's generally the better player, he's gonna dictate the patterns, the play styles, the targets. So he is gonna be able to play to his strengths and he knows the responses people have to his strengths. If someone was able to force Ben Johns to play to their game, then all of a sudden they would know the the patterns and they would they would the responses and know how to like ask the questions, right? Totally. Yeah, yeah. So it's the argument for being the most skilled person is you'd get to play your strengths more. Totally. You don't get to play your strengths when you're weaker.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah. Gosh, and is this a tangent if I say one thing in Ben Johns? Because it's just an MLP. We're talking. So uh Augie and um JJ Dub and The Flash just played Ben and his team, the Mad Drops, and MLP. And one of the biggest things that we like had to change before the last match was that we tried as much as we could to return to Ben's partner, but inevitably, Ben, even when you hit the perfect return to Ben's partner, sometimes Ben would come over and take the third. Okay, which that's unavoidable. If you hit a good return, he takes it, unavoidable. But the key, truly the key, was getting the fourth shot. Like a tie and I are on the returning team, our fourth shot to his partner, because then Ben is no longer in control of the point. He is at the mercy of what his partner does. And so just to tie what Tyler was just saying to this point, is like it's still on Ben's side of the court, it's still on his side of the net. But if you hit if he gets the fifth shot, then he knows basically what's gonna happen on the sixth, seventh, eighth, and ninth shots. If the next shot goes to his partner, even though that's not his opponent dictating what happens, it is no longer completely within his control of exactly how that ball goes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02It's so good. We need a word for this. And in this is just where I either know the words or have created the words for all these scenarios in basketball, but not yet in pickleball. So help me with a word for this because I'd like to make a part of a vernacular. Maybe that we don't have one. Okay. So when we target an opponent, we try to target the weaker player because we think about quality of shot. They like in transition, let's say, or for their fifth, right? Oh, let's hit it to max instead of Ben because he has less quality in transition. But I'm thinking for for what you said, yeah, that's only part of the advantage. Another advantage is they then the weaker player has to dictate the script of the point and not the better player. That's what I want the word for. That is, I mean, I that's so good. I've never thought about that before as the added value.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I don't know if we gotta go with the word, but yeah. Oh, yeah, just to take it one step further. So to just hit Ty's point home, which was so well said, is his partner Max could hit, let's say, let's even call it a perfect ball to spot X, whatever that spot is. Okay, it could be perfect. But Ben, if he had taken that ball, might have hit the perfect ball to spot Y, and that spot Y could have uh summoned a chain of reactions that that got Ben to do what he wanted to do, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because Ben's spot is gonna play to Ben's strengths.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Max's spot, if the reason he hits that shot, it's your authentic game, it's related to the personality test, right? Max's spot is gonna play to his strengths. I run into this all the time. Should I go on this or should I let you finish? No, I'm done. Okay. I run into this all the time. Zach has run into this as well, with partners, where I hit the spot Y and I'm ready for everything that's gonna happen on the spot Y. And it's usually a product of me being very movement attack oriented, right? Whereas my partner's not ready for that sort of spot Y, and then they play worse in the point and I play better. So I get frustrated because I'm ready to play spot Y, they get frustrated because they're they would rather play spot X, right? And so that is why you want to intentionally hit it to people, the weaker player, so they can't play their preferred style and pattern.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I don't know how we got on this tangent, but this is it's pretty good. I love talking about pickleball.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's good, it's good. I just love talking about sport, and pickleball is now my sport. I said it. Yeah. Okay. Um, all right, so next step. We'll get back to Kyle's in a moment because I think we're making this applicable to them. So now you're not a coach, Zach. Yeah. Now you're a player, or and you're telling any listeners that are players, so what do they look for? Like I liked your image of the video game and the heads-up display, red zones and green zones, okay. But with so next thing, so you you said just put in the green zone, but how do you determine those green zones? Sure. Because you don't always know Brandon French has a strong forehand and Braden Jacobson has a strong backhand. You've never played these people before. Right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, it's perfect. And so can I I'm just gonna say, like at a 4-0 level, because I I'm just gonna, I don't that doesn't that doesn't mean if you're listening, you are a 4-0. If you're better, it doesn't I'm just like to broadly speak to everyone.
SPEAKER_02Let's just say I think that captures most people because I can learn from a 4-0 level. I'm slightly above it, yeah, and people slightly below it can learn from. I think it's a great, a great place to take it. Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_01So I think let's most of you are playing similar to or at a 4-0 level. And I think there has to be presumed places where the ball is less dangerous and presumed places where the ball is more dangerous, right? I the most obvious simple example would be like forehand, backhand. Okay. So let's say, can we just use like make a real example? Yep. Let's say that you're a um you're the left side player, you serve, um, the ball is returned to you, and so you're serving cross-court, obviously. So the opposing left side player is running to the kitchen. I I think that you should go into the match, and assuming this player is right-handed, presuming that you should drop to their backhand versus their forehand, right? Like, um, and especially if you want to take it one step further and if you want to be the strategic player, if you serve, if you hit your serve to the middle, which further opens your third shot to go to their backhand. We could and if if you're in the school or you see that if you've seen the pattern middle wide serve opening in the school, that would be what I'm referring to. Then you've not only um made your pr presumption, but you've made a play to further enhance your presumption. Okay. So you hit the ball there and you execute it the way you want. And and let's say that video game player who's running in is currently all whatever color we decided for question mark, blue, right? They're currently all blue. And then you hit that ball to that spot, and let's say it goes really well for you. Then tentatively, I would just uh tattoo that spot as weakness, whatever color I we decide on the video game. Or let's say that you hit a great ball to that spot, exactly how you wanted, and they do something insanely well, right? I wouldn't decide for sure for the rest of the match, but I would temporarily color that spot strength, you know, where I think we said that's red or something, right? So you have and to me, this that all stems from doing what you're doing on purpose because uh have we has Kyle have you or Kyle ever posted that video, the Steve Nash interview in here where he's questions? Ask him questions.
SPEAKER_02I know we've referenced the concept. I don't know that we posted the video.
SPEAKER_01Okay, well, one time Kyle or Tyler or both sent me the greatest interview with Steve Nash, um, where one of the big themes he talks about as a basketball player, but it completely applies to any sport, is to ask your opponent questions. So what I'm what I was describing in that that third shot scenario is simply an opportunity to ask them questions. Ask them, how do you defend this ball to this spot? And then allow whatever happens in response, whether it's good or bad in your favor, to simply be an answer, right? And then you use that answer to further, then then you you're uh an inch closer to knowing Braden Jacobson, the left side player, and then you're uh a play closer to knowing Brandon French, the right side player. To that it's good.
SPEAKER_02Okay, let me let me highlight a couple things because we are gonna come full circle back to Kyle's scenario. But honestly, sorry, Kyle, Kyle's scenario really doesn't matter that much. It's just like what matters about it is that we could all learn from it. That's why Kyle went on the journey, that's why he brought Zach and me along. That's why we have the school. We're all learning on this journey together. And you know, Kyle's continuing to pursue pro pickball as Zach has become a pro coach, and I've become a recreational player that loves it. But like we're all on this journey together, we're all just trying to learn together. So, like, yeah, we love that Kyle did well, but like, what can you do with it? If we just sit back and be like, that was so cool, Kyle won, and you don't change you. Why are you in the school? Um, why are you listening to this podcast? Like, this is about you at the end of the day. So um, red, yellow, green. I'd propose that we use the same traffic light system for reading quality of third to targeting, right? Red, stop. Don't go there. Yellow warning. They just did something good, right? Yeah. I can try it out again later, right? Warning, but they did something good once. Green, go, go, go, go. So instead of blue, I'm just proposing green. For sure. Okay. Um, so now we have now we have a language we can talk about it in. Uh, next. The serve opening that Zach suggested, you need to have it as your script. It's the your script of questions. Just like a salesperson on a sales call has a script, and once they say, no, I'm not buying that thing, then you go to the next thing on your script and see if they don't buy that thing. It's the same, those are the questions that we're asking in Pickleball. So, like have your script beforehand, and a serve opening from the left side and the right side is a great script. Zach just gave you that script. Okay. When you follow the script and it works, don't just change it up to change it up. Keep doing this thing that works until it doesn't work anymore. Don't make adjustments to make adjustments, right? You only make adjustments if something's not working. Um, I've seen players do that, like when I've asked them, well, what's your serve opening? Like, oh, I love to mix it up. Like, that's not a serve opening mixing it up, right? You're just the only reason to mix it up is if it doesn't work. You got to find something until it works. Like, anyway, so um, all right, last thing. Michael Jordan said this about the defense, and I think it applies here. He said that the defense is always wrong. He said, if I fake right and they went for it, they were wrong because I go left. I fake right and they don't go for it, they're wrong because I go right. Oh, that's great. Right? I sh I I I shot fake and they go for it, they're wrong because I drive. I shot fake, they don't go for it, they're wrong because I shoot it. The defense is always wrong. Isn't that good? That's so good. And that's what we're talking about here, right? Your opponent is always wrong. No matter what shot you hit, they're gonna be wrong, right? Because if they crush it with a two-e backhand when you leave it high there, well, they're wrong now because now that they want that again, they're sitting on it, you put it somewhere else. They're wrong. Um, so I think that's the concept of of it of like the mindset when you're playing, you don't have Zach on your sideline. When you're playing, the defense is always wrong. When you believe that, you get confident, as opposed to like, oh no, they just crushed my best shot. Nope, they're wrong because we now know their best shot and we know what they're looking for, and we know where to put where to put it somewhere else.
SPEAKER_01That's one of the coolest. Things ever. Yeah, the defensive. I'm gonna say that all the time now.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, use it. And I'm gonna say I made it up. You only have to think the first time. Yeah. Okay. All right. So um right now I would be interested. I think it's the right time to do it. Because I actually haven't thoroughly dove into this scenario. What exactly like did you see in Kyle's match? You know, we we talked about things and like was there another adjustment that you saw? Or yeah, or even talk even about the adjustments from MLP this week. I think now it's like people would love some pro scenarios. I mean, what's crazy, okay, I'll say this. If you want to get into MLP, the Flash just beat the mad drops.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Nobody except you and me and Augie would have really thought that was gonna happen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's pretty amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I I don't, yeah. It's kind of similar to this. I don't think it's amazing because I think there's obvious, but yeah.
SPEAKER_02Which one do you want to talk about? Kyle's or LA or both?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, let's let's go Kyle because hope, yeah. So number one, that okay, again, the specific adjustment, whatever mostly comes from just knowing the players he was playing against beforehand. So I I already I would have already known those things prior to. Um but also it comes from knowing what Kyle has been working on and what he does well. That's good. And so, like, because we obviously spend hours together every week working on his specific game. Oh, this is yeah, this is gonna be perfect. So he has worked a ton on his third shots over the last couple months, and he they're they've gotten so good. And so particularly, he has gotten really good at the forehand from the left side kind of rolling or dripping that ball to the opponent's corner, right? Which would be their backhand, which is the scenario we described in the hypothetical. So I knew that in that moment, in addition to knowing the players, I knew that Kyle was simply doing the thing that we worked on a lot of.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that he was feeling confident in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and he's doing it well. And so, like from Kyle's perspective, that makes total sense. He's gotten really good at that shot, he's he's uh become very confident in it. It's been a way for him to generate advantage on a regular basis.
SPEAKER_02In the first half of that game, he probably wasn't hitting bad quality shots. No, not at all. They were just being handled with high quality responses. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01And I don't even think I would have to go back and watch, but I it's it's not as if the the third shots to that first location were the the source of them losing the point. It's just they weren't gaining they weren't the source of them winning the point. Correct, yeah. And so, and if anything, I would say to just now like tie this to all the things we've said, even though it wasn't quote unquote the best thing to do first or intentional to target Braden's backhand, um, but because he had done it for the through those first six points or whatever, it had only further trained Braden to favor that spot, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, I remember I remember when you were teaching a four-hand speed up thing. You talked about grooming people with your spot. Like you don't start going to your favorite spot because you're grooming them to go to your favorite spot when it matters.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I didn't even think about that aspect of it until now. So not only was it Braden's favorite thing, but he had been groomed at least for a short period of time to cover it that way, anyways. Yeah. Um yeah, I guess I guess the second part of that equation is that the Brandon French guy, so he does have a good forehand, as we said, but he also, most guys at that bubble take the ball out of the air with a one-handed backhand, generally speaking, right? So if we can all picture ourselves like a taking the ball out of the air on your backhand side with one hand versus two, he takes it out, he's capable of doing that, but he prefers to take it out.
SPEAKER_02He keeps his other hand on the on the paddle a lot, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so he takes the ball out of the air. It's almost like a little Riley Newman looking with that. Yeah, he's a very funky player. Yeah, everything about his play is very funky. But um, so that made it not only that ability or inability or or decision that he makes made it less likely that he would come over and stab that ball from that spot out of the air with a one-handed backhand. And are you talking in particular on thirds or the net right now or all of it? In general, but specifically on the play where this this adjustment is being talked about. Got it. Okay, I don't know if I said this in the text or it's in the thing, but I I think I said something like make Brandon show you. You'll have to partner protect. Help partner protect. And that's what I was referencing. Yeah, yeah. Make friends show you he'll come up. Yeah, exactly. So because he you A, you have less reach with the two minorly less reach um with the two and a backhand, but when you're moving to your left and then with the intent to move back to your right, you kind of have less stability as well. He might, if he did go and take it out of the air, you gotta get your weight left to go two eight. Yeah, exactly. So it's it's a much different cover if you're covering for your partner there when you only use two hands as opposed to using one hand. Um, so that in addition to Braden's that it was it was a sandwich of the two of them, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um okay. All right, so all right, so you saw that, that's what you saw. Yeah. And so you adjusted the target. And then what did you see in the second half? Like what changed? So the target changed, and then what was the outcome of it? Um, yeah. I I haven't watched it with this lens at all, so I've actually sure I don't have visuals.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so um, number one, the quality of ball they were receiving was just much worse. The Kyle L receiving Yeah, like all their fourths and yeah, I don't even remember specifically. I would assume that they got a couple pop-ups and put aways, but it wasn't. I do remember some of those, yeah. Okay, yeah. But that wouldn't be the majority at Kyle's level.
SPEAKER_02And I actually I I saw too, now that you're saying it, I actually saw I did see Brandon taking more middle balls, period. He probably did than he was before because they weren't even putting it there. Sure. Um, and then I saw there were a couple of miscommunications and then some frustration started to happen. For sure. Because he did force um Brandon to come over and he and Brady were kind of clashing a couple times. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So yeah, I mean, I would say that's one of the other byproducts is like the confusion, you know.
SPEAKER_02Um let wait, let me ask one more question. Yeah. Why aren't middle dinks used more at lower levels?
SPEAKER_01Um, well, I think partially because A, I think the term middle dink is a little broad. Okay. Right? Like uh if you dink if you send a dead dink to the middle, then generally speaking, the left side player is gonna come take that with their forehand. Right. And um first of all, they should be used more. Yes, middle ding. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So but I but yes, agreed. Well, here it is. At the low lower levels, I'm just gonna use numbers here. I'm sorry, 3-0. There's no reason to dink middle because you just dink to the left person's backhand and you get a pop-up piece. Everyone sucks at it, okay? So now you get 4-0, 4-0 plus. People can actually backhand dink. That's when you it's pretty good to move them around, move them wide with a backhand dink, then get them on the move to a shallow dink in the middle. There's lots of partner confusion on that. I think they should absolutely be used a lot more. I think that's kind of the agreed the progression of it, right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And but oftentimes to what Ty's saying, it it has to be earned. So you have to pull them wide first to then go middle second. You know. Um good.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Guys, I was just curious. So, what should you do? If we're going back to this script and like ask questions, make them show they can hit a back end dink. If yes, move them out there and then hit not dead, but shallow, unattackable dinks middle. That's your pattern, as opposed to what I see at most 4-0 levels, is once it goes back end to back end, it's just a cross-court dinking battle. Someone makes a mistake. Yeah. That's it. Right. And so, like, what can you do is you can actually move around in that so you can create advantage, even if you're not as good of a backhand dinker from the left as your opponent.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And and I would always think of it as not only asking the the player who's dinking questions, but also asking questions of his their partner, his or her partner. So, like when you do change it up with that middle dink, does their partner who's on the right side do they step in and look to take it out of the air? Or do they just like hang out there and let that ball whiz by them? Because if their partner does help, then that might mean um instead of dinking to the middle next time, you might anticipate their partner helping and then dink behind the partner, right? Or if their partner just stands there help and doesn't do anything, then you might dink it even more aggressively to the middle next time.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna say something even crazier. Cool. If I'm coaching you, not you, Zach, but you listener, if I'm coaching you and we're playing at this level, 4-0-ish or 4-0 below, I want you to hit one dink if you're playing the left. I want you to hit one dink to the backhand of the left side person, and then immediately run around your forehand. And the first ball you get back, I want you to speed it up off the balance right in front of you. Those are the two questions I want you to ask over and over. And and you'll probably get a resounding no for at least the first half of the match at your level. I mean, don't do it. All right, so anyway, that's that's just an aside. For sure. Yeah, it's great. Okay. All right, let's go. One last thing, we'll get you out of here. Um, we're good. We got 20 minutes. Yeah, all right. Well, not we don't. Zach does. Zach has to leave. You and I, listener, have five to six minutes. Okay. Okay. Um, MLP, this is maybe just for me, but I think a lot of people are into MLP. Context. I, for most of my life, watched every basketball game there was. And if I didn't watch the full game, I watched the highlights. Same. And that's how I learned the game was by watching film. And people are like, oh, Tyler, you never coached in the NBA. How did you, you know, become the coach that you are? Um, and I said, Well, I may didn't coach anybody, but I watch as much film as any NBA coach. Watch it all. So I don't watch basketball anymore, but I would say I watched nearly every minute of MLP this season. Oh, wow. I didn't even know that. Yeah, like I watch a ton. Um, more so in the last half of the season, the first half, as the storylines have become more compelling, um, and got very invested, obviously, with you and the flash and then Augie, and then just because Kyle got to sit at the bench with them and all that stuff. Okay, so I've so I'm very into this. How? And I know you had a role specifically with coaching Augie. So anything you're willing or able to disclose, do, but this this could go public, so don't disclose anything you couldn't. Um how did the flash beat the mad drops who were the higher seed and have the best player in the world?
SPEAKER_01Um I yeah, I guess I I'll choose some words wisely, but I think that and you can just say because you were coaching August and you can go ahead and just say that, okay?
SPEAKER_02I'll say it for him.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think well number one, I think they're as a whole, they're better. Um like better energy for sure. Yeah, better energy, um, better competitors. I actually will say that with certainty, and I d and and that is a monumental difference, and monumental being a pretty relative term in this case, but like I I think you know that in our video game setting that that adds you know three points to their overall rating, the competitive part of it. Not that not to say that the other players are bad competitors on the other team, but I just do think that as a whole, the Dallas players are better competitors, and that doesn't mean the other team wasn't trying hard or doesn't want to win. It more just means in pressure moments, who I think Dallas is able to perform closer to their norm or their max than some of the players on the mad drops.
SPEAKER_02Not gonna say, All right, I'm gonna do something, and you shouldn't do this, but you can just uh give me feedback on this. I'm gonna rank the flash based on their ability to compete. Cool. Um, not how much they want it, but their ability to just compete. All right. Um, all right, I'm gonna go J Dub number one. And and I'm just talking like, does your level rise or fall when it matters? Um, like, do you care? Like, do you fight? Like, like how much um adversity can you put up with before you give up and fold versus like still believe, right? Like I would actually put Annalie above everyone on a scale, right? So I'm gonna put Jay Dub above Augie. I'm gonna put Augie second because I think Augie's actually greatest individual talent is his ability to compete, more so than any skill set that he has. Like he just competes really well. Um, I'm actually gonna put Brooke above Danny in this, and I'm gonna go Danny and Alex last. Any uh comments or edits to that? I know it's dangerous for you to comment.
SPEAKER_01No, not. I mean, J Dub is actually a really tricky one. I don't even know what my answer would be because people wouldn't think of it as a competitor because he's so reserved and quiet.
SPEAKER_02They might think, like, oh, he doesn't care. Yeah, I haven't seen that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, he doesn't really change no matter what. So I'm not saying that as a good or a bad. I would say that there is A, I would say he is a great competitor. B, I would say that there is room for him to become an even better one. Um, just in more of a, I think for most people it would, it would show externally, which with him I don't think it would ever be this, but like in more of like a the game is on the line, give me the damn ball. Yeah, like yes, that. And I'm not saying that he doesn't want that, but I think more of a like, let's if if you compare him to Ben in that sense, Ben is also not outwardly like rah-rah, but like Ben will also kind of do it out of frustration towards his partner, which J Dub would never do, which is a gives him a leg up competitive, which became was very obvious in the game through character. Which to me is not being a good competitor. Agreed. Um but I think J Dub could do, and I'm I'm I'm just saying a tiny bit more of like it's 1010, I'm the biggest freak in the world. Augie's the man, he's playing great, but like I'm getting my hands on this ball. And he did and does do a lot of that already. So I feel like he's been doing more of that this year than ever in his life. Agreed, agreed. So I'm not saying it's a shortage, I think it's more of just like when he fully embraces that. If he does, which I think he will, I think it's pretty safe to say it would it would be very hard to s argue with anyone that he won't be the best player in the world. Yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, so I don't I don't really know. I would put J Dub and Augie together because I my Jay sometimes J Dub's skill can override hit some discrepancies in that area. And and I'm biased towards Augie, but like Augie doesn't have the same level of skill. So sometimes to me, his competitiveness overrides his skill, which to me is more impressive than vice versa.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, that that's a really valid point. And here I'll I'll give Augie my compliment. And I think this is what all our listeners and school members can take away. Augie can make six errors. Yeah. And I still believe he's gonna bounce back.
SPEAKER_01That's the biggest thing.
SPEAKER_02Right, yeah. And like he can like, I mean, he didn't play great in, I can't remember what what match it was, right? But he's a couple. Yeah, a couple, right? But he he still delivered when it really mattered. Yeah. Whereas so many people, myself included, when I make six errors, I'm done. Might as well move on to the next game. See you later, right? Never playing pickleball again. Exactly, right? So that's a definition of competitiveness. I think that's just really special.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and you that's the best way to say what I was trying to say with J Dub and Augie. And it's and so it's really not J Dub has never made six errors. Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_02He hits an awesome shot every third shot. So, like, how can you not be confident you'll want the ball?
SPEAKER_01So, again, I am not I do not want this to be taken as a slight to JW, but I do not believe that he would handle making six airs in a row as well as Augie would. Yeah, he's never experienced it. Yeah, but it's yeah, his personality It's like getting punched in the face for the first time. Yeah, he would he would pull back a little bit. That's that's I agree. That's fair.
SPEAKER_02I've seen that for sure.
SPEAKER_01Whereas Augie wouldn't.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I'm gonna make another um crazy statement. I actually am putting Brooke above Danny, even though like Danny's like chirpy, um, trash talkie, like very big. Yeah, but I've also seen her go the other way, and I feel like her bravado at times seems false. Yeah. And and whereas like Brooke, I mean, she just competes, and she's so much less skilled and talented, depending on how you want to define talent than Danny. Yeah. Um, but I actually was so impressed with her mixed match in particular. Also, I mean, she benefits from she specialized so much this season. Yeah, she only has it forehand drops and dinks. Yeah. Um that's her specialty. And that's her specialty, right? But like she played great in that mixed match against Ben too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that was her best match of the year. Yeah. Yeah. Again, I I should probably choose more carefully. All right, though, yeah, yeah. No, well, I wouldn't I would say these things to Danny, but I'd prefer not to. But I Danny's bravado isn't false. And I'm not so I'm not disagreeing with you, but it isn't real at the same like so she she is a great competitor and her freeness for lack of a better term, is that is a superpower, dude. For sure. Oh my gosh. Like, I'm so envious of that. Yeah. I think to me, first I would say this to her, so but she, I think this is a learned or intentional defense mechanism. But when something goes wrong, you'll always see her look at her paddle. Yeah, or spot on the ground, or a spot on the ground, or check the ball. I think that is a void and kind of what you're referring to. Yeah. But I've also heard and from people, especially in the tennis world, even though she didn't come from a tennis world, that that is something that people do on purpose because, especially in tennis, for example, you're gonna make a million unforced errors as a tennis player. And so it's if you own every error, then that becomes overwhelming. If you cast it off as like, that's not me, whatever. Yeah, like couldn't have been me, then it's a way of dealing with it. Where so Which I don't mind.
SPEAKER_02Like Steph Curry misses the shot, and he's like, What? Is there an earthquake? Right. Like he's you know what I mean? It's like it couldn't be me. Yeah, it but but you do earn that level of confidence as well. So like there's a progression. So but I actually see that.
SPEAKER_01I think that would have been I and she is close to that level, but I will say the difference between her and Anna Lee, I mean, in in this regard, is that Anna Lee will make a mistake, first of all, not very often, but she will make a mistake and then not only believe, but know that the next time she gets that ball in that situation, that she will make it. But then also, this and this is fact, um, after the match, that thing that she goofed up, she will she'll be on the court for two hours doing it. So she had, and again, she is the best of the best in this way. So my only um I think that could be a healthy defense mechanism in the moment. My only wish for Danny is that she would have the second part of that where she would then go. Own it and train train the craft out there. Yeah, exactly. Which at this point she doesn't right, and that's her next step to if she wants to be PPA.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, that's that's really good. And everyone has that. And is she what's this rumor about her not playing PPA this year?
SPEAKER_01Uh do you know anything about it? I don't know. I I'm pretty out of, but like, but I do know that she's playing in some Australian team format, which might be MLP. Got it. So if she is, then that might stop. But uh, she's I think she's playing in some PPA. Okay. I just think she might not be playing in every single one.
SPEAKER_02Okay, last question. Have you seen the matchups for I have not. Oh, yeah. Let's divide a look. Let's divulge. So who were the flash playing? The flash play the shock. Okay, so shock. Okay, so New Jersey didn't pick the flash. New Jersey picked Brooklyn. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, which is Does that surprise you or no? Uh anything they did would have surprised me because uh again, I don't I'm trying to tiptoe, but like there I would have been shocked whoever the fives picked, but they had to pick someone. Right. So there's an obvious the Johnson family is a super tight, loving family, like which is awesome. And Georgia plays for the fives, JW plays. So I would have been shocked if they would have picked playing against each other. There are some similar dynamics, which I can't say regarding um the Brooklyn. So I would have been shocked if they picked them. And Brooklyn, I would say, by the masses, is seen as more dangerous. Um I don't know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I'd say general pickleball is oh, they have Christian Alshon. You don't want to get a dream breaker with them, they have Chris Hayworth, yeah. Rachel Rohrbacher, you know.
SPEAKER_01I mean, they are crazy dangerous, they're crazy dangerous. So is the flash. So, but but so I think most, let's put it this way, I think majority of people or teams or whatever in that situation would have picked the flash, but I believe that they didn't because of the Johnsons.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Not not because like the Johnsons were like, you can't do this, or I'm I'm not trying to say anything like that, but just like that's a tough, interesting, weird dynamic that I think both parties were happy to avoid.
SPEAKER_02All right. What are the odds here? What are the odds the flash upset the shock? One in how many? One in a hundred, one in two, fifty. Can I just do like a percentage? Yeah, that's what I meant. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um that's that's what it is. But yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02What's their percent chance?
SPEAKER_01I do think that don't tell me yet.
SPEAKER_02I want to write down my two. Don't peek at my paper here. Okay. Um, their percent chance of the upset. We're saying flash upset, I've got my percent, and then we're gonna go percent chance Brooklyn upsets, and I've got my percent. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Let's go flash.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna give it like my on I don't I don't I want to get it like my heart not the heart don't do the heart do the head like you gotta put yeah ten thousand dollars on this I'm gonna say polymarket hashtag polymarket well it's gonna be different than those odds no matter what I say but I'm gonna say 42 percent 42 percent they have a chance to win do you want to hear my my flashback 33 okay I think flash have a 33% chance I think most people would say that or less to be honest I think see I was thinking most people would say less I yeah I think so okay um I would bet ten thousand dollars at 33% at three to one well it's pretty good I don't know how that all that works but polymarket is not uh is not making this one available yet. I am looking, they have only allowed all right, we won't get into the gambling situation. I don't know how that works. Yeah, me neither. All right, chances Brooklyn upset the fives, New Jersey fives.
SPEAKER_01Deb you already written yours down? Yep. Gosh. Anna Lee distorts everything in my mind, to be honest. Because I my gut instinct is to say like 50% or more, but Annalie changes everything for me. I'm gonna say 46%.
SPEAKER_02Okay, this may shock you. I'm going 15. I think they I think you only have a 15% chance. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Can you expound really quick?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, same thing. I I I Annalie will find a way to win. I agree. Annalie will find a way to win. Um yeah. They would they win women's, I think, nine times out of ten. I think they have the advantage in both mixed matches, small, and and they might change it up.
SPEAKER_01Well, we have no idea what's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the first mix. And and and they're and their men, their men will probably lose.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, see, my thinking is that I think the men for the whatever will uh men for shock.
SPEAKER_02No, men for oh you think men for fives will win?
SPEAKER_01No, no, no. The the fives are playing Brooklyn.
SPEAKER_02Oh, sorry, thank you. Yeah, you're saying that- I think Brooklyn's men. Thank you, yes.
SPEAKER_01And I think that they have a very good chance because Christian is unbelievable and Rachel is unbelievable, and we have no idea what's gonna I don't even know who the pairing or what sides the first mixed team is gonna be for the fives. So do you think right?
SPEAKER_02Would you you are who sets the who sets the lineups? The coach, the GM, is it collaborative? Do we know? Probably collaborative, but I would I would imagine that's mostly Lee. Mostly Lee. Okay. So you're the coach of the fives. What's your what's your um lineup all the way through? So obviously it's Anna Lee in Georgia. Yeah. Okay, what would you do in Men's? Oh man. And I'll tell you what I'd do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's really hard to say without knowing the guys because I know enough of you personally, like, what's personally? Yeah. Yeah, like I know their personalities and I know that they're a little fragile. Yeah. Just gonna say it. Um, so I don't know, I I I know for sure that they're a hundred percent that a part of the decision right now is how they will the guys will react. For sure. Because if one guy will explode and blow up team chemistry, terrible, it unfortunately it has to be taken into account. Like either that decision isn't made or like that person wouldn't be on the team. Right.
SPEAKER_02And so I like not even there this weekend, yeah.
SPEAKER_01No, like actually, I don't I don't think that's not gonna happen, but I'm saying they are making decisions tiptoeing for sure, to be honest. Um, I I can't, I I I'm not avoiding it, but Federico would be in there. Okay. I think I okay, I think their best lineup would be Federico on the left, Noe on the right. But I don't, it doesn't seem like Noe has put in the work to know how to play the right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um I think Noe would be an amazing right side player.
SPEAKER_01He has great counters. He's made for it.
SPEAKER_02He's made for right. Why is he not leaning into it? Yeah, he's made for right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and then I would do one of two things for Mix. Okay. I've been saying this for a while. If Noe and Anna Lee are gonna play together, I would put Annalie on the left. Yeah. I've I've been trying to yell at anyone before that even just happened that that she should play on the left. Or I would put at this point, if she's not gonna play the left with Noah, I think Annaly and Fed should play the left.
SPEAKER_02Okay, that's what I would. I I think I think they should absolutely just guarantee yourself a win. And I actually think whoever, probably Noe, whoever plays with Georgia will play better because of the Annaly pressure. Fed will be impacted by the Annaly pressure the least. I agree. That's the thing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I I yeah. And I and I'd put Noe and Georgia out there. And I think it's entirely impossible that that entirely possible that that is what happens. Oh, and okay, I hope because Noe is not gonna want to play the right, and Annalie's not gonna want it to continue the way it has.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so it's a win win. Then everyone has a fresh start, in my opinion. I I I if I had to bet money, I would bet that that's what happens.
SPEAKER_02Interesting. Who plays in the Dreambreaker, Noah or Will? Who has up to this point? Have they played? I I I don't know. It was Will last time. Oh, it was Will last time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Hmm. I'd probably put Noah actually. But who knows? It's honestly I've Will won it for him last time. Did he? Okay, I didn't know that. All right, last question. I know I said that, but now I I got more. It's okay. The death of the singles specialist has been a a thing. Yeah. Because they're cold, it's four points. There's so much pressure. Yeah, like being clutch matters more than like individual skill, you know, R.I.P. Sam Parker. Yeah. Um, what do you think? It's a fact. It's a fact.
SPEAKER_01It has to, yeah. I mean, me and Augie were talking about that on Sunday night.
SPEAKER_02Like, is it a fact unless it's Chris Hayworth or Hunter Johnson? Or is it still a fact? Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Okay. No, because yeah, we we're like we we literally went through this process. We're like Hayworth makes sense, Hunter makes sense. If Goins wasn't playing in doubles, he would make sense.
SPEAKER_02Because you have to be like top five in the world and clutch. Yeah. You can't be like a peripheral player that doesn't believe.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Okay. Unless you like had that, like, okay, someone like, oh, since we brought up before, Isabella Dunlap does play in doubles, but she's she's a better singles player and doubles player. If she didn't play in doubles as a girl, I'd feel comfortable with her coming.
SPEAKER_02Just because of her demeanor persona, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And she's just a grinder. She's gonna make a bunch of balls.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. No, I do think it's it's gonna be it, that's gonna change next year.
SPEAKER_02I'm excited. Yeah. And they are they starting on Friday again?
SPEAKER_01I believe so. Friday? You'd not this Friday, but next Friday. Okay. You'd think I would know, but I don't.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I I didn't know, so I'm glad. All right. Um, this was a fun one. And uh we did do the the full the full shebang. So this is uh we're actually shifting from the secret podcast to that pickleball podcast URL purchased. This is that pickleball podcast. Wow. I know, big step. We have a we have a graphic. Um we'll be putting an excerpt of this audio out publicly, but the majority of it will remain members only for you guys. Um, the most important parts. So make sure it's not me talking trash about it Well, usually it's the first bit that we'll put out publicly. Cool. You haven't gotten it. So we hey join the membership if we want to hear Zach talk trash about ProFlayers. Uh anything you want to say before we go?
SPEAKER_01No, you guys are awesome. Thanks for having me. See ya.