SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hi, Steve Todgay here for Full Throttles Laties Podcast. And I'm here with Joe Chapman, and we're sat outside the race course Grand Wrexham after a thrilling end to uh to a game that uh Albion looked like losing. So I thought we'd have a quick reaction podcast. So um here we go, Joe.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

We should try and make a habit of these, I think. Certainly if we're on the road together, and there there are very, very few opportunities to do these kind of impromptu podcasts where Albion have taken three points on the road and we've both been in attendance. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

It was a little bit behind late on. We didn't manage to get there together at Derby, so this is the first time that we've actually been on the road. And it is lovely to win away, especially in that star, because it really came out of the blue, didn't it?

SPEAKER_01 0:53

It did, yeah. I mean, let's be honest, for the first hour or so before Kiefer Moore's opening goal, there was very, very little in it. And I don't think Albion did an awful lot wrong between the boxes. I thought that George Campbell and Chris Meppham uh as good as Kiefer Moore is, they had the measure of him generally in in the area. You have one header in the first half. Other than that, I thought Albion were pretty comfortable. They just really don't lack enough uh sorry, rather, they they lack too much going the other direction. They don't have enough firepower, enough to really, really harm teams. And I made the point to you in the press box, didn't I, Steve, that they've lined up this evening with a frontline of lads who are young guys who were playing at Falkirk and Forest Green last season. You know, we're we're we're talking about players who have not played championship football an awful lot. There has to be an element of patience for the for the fan base, even in these particularly difficult times, even when we've when I say difficult, I'm referring to the fact that we've lost a couple of derby matches. And as a squad, they were up against it tonight with 75 minutes on the clock, and they've shown a real mettle and a real character. Uh, a lot of young guys on the pitch really came through that and played parts in what is a what is a real significant win, I think, in in Albion's season.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

I think it could be. I mean, to see where you are in the table, because I I don't know where we would have been on 78 minutes losing one nil. I think you know, we'll all look at the as it stands tables and we'd probably drifted down a little bit uh further. So it's like what a what a boost it is then to then to see that you're you you know you're up in joint third. But I I was I was I wasn't surprised with the team selection. I thought it was I thought it was okay, I thought it was bold, but I thought at half time, okay, Kiefer Mooreheader, another stunner of a say from uh O'Leary with a bit of help from um Styles, I think was it on the on the on the line, or maybe it was somebody else, but it was the only real incident of the first half, and I was I was not trying hard not to say to you at half time this will be a poor game to lose, because they really without a couple of their best players, they only really had Moore and Cabore, I thought, down the right side that were a threat. And I thought it would have been a really poor game to lose, and we really didn't do enough to win it, but you were kind of just thinking, okay, take a point, and then when they go a goal down, a great, a great a terrific finish from Moore out of the blue, and then they take him off four minutes later. For me, that was a turning point in the game.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

Yeah, I mean they they kind of walked into that, really. Uh you know, the one player who, as good as he is in the air, you've got to say, his all-round centre forward player was very, very good. I did think Mepperman Campbell had uh you know a bit of a hold a handle on him, but at the same time, he kept dropping deep, he kept receiving the ball, even with his back to goal. He was he was coming out of challenges with the ball, he was trying to get Wrexham on the front foot, he had Kalamahair buzzing around him. Uh, and then of course, you know, he scored a really wonderful goal. The Max O'Leary's been in sparkling form in the last few weeks, and he couldn't have got near that. And I think probably actually centre halves were left a little bit exposed, maybe. There was a turnover.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

He was allowed to run for uh you know too freely there. He picked the ball up. I think Morrison was claiming the foul on Whitwell, who lost possession, not for the first time in the game actually, a bit weakly. And then Moore was allowed to drift through that midfield area. I can't recall exactly why, but he was given a bit too much space and he he he was a blue to away.

SPEAKER_01 4:26

Yeah, there was just a turnover possession, I think, whether it was a foul or not. It just had Collier as Zenguga on the back foot, and and Moore had the space and time, and he was able to then really make Albion pay. Uh, but yeah, do you know? I was keen to point out in my piece on Full Throssle, Steve, that I think Albion began to turn the screw before the substitutions even happened. So we know that Hegeber and and and Jimmy J. Morgan came on with about 15 minutes of normal time. But actually, for those 10 minutes prior to that, in between the goal, uh more opening the scoring, I thought Albion really began to up it. Uh and and Barney Stewart, who you know did uh a time he worked really, really hard. Like you don't get me wrong, it's nothing to do with his attitude or the way that he puts himself about, uh, things just didn't really fall for him a lot of a lot of the evening. Uh, you know, there was a time when Nzig Gouler might have played a through ball to him, it would have been a wonderful move and if if Stewart had managed to finish it off. And Patterson, the goalkeeper, just beats him to it. And then, of course, the second half prior to him coming off, Price has flashed a brilliant cross across the face of gold, and Stewart is like a you know, the the length of a stud away from making contact with it. So I think there uh you hopefully he comes on for this experience. Hopefully, he thinks, okay, this is what I kind of need to do, this is what I need to work on to be a really, really competent championship forward. Um but the the football itself, I thought Albion have, as they've done actually against Blues, uh, maybe Wolves was just generally disappointed. But I think Albion have been playing some good football. And you look at Zingula and Collier now in the team, Mira on Saturday. I thought Pereira was very good here at Wrexham at right back. Uh Callum Styles, of course, you know exactly what you're going to get from him. And then, you know, when Morgan and Hegeber come on, price begins to, you know, um really, really kind of.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Well, I like the I like the I like the way he didn't just send them on uh you know in a in a desperate just get up there and and see what you can do. I think there was a plan. I think he came on, he he switched price to the right for uh in where Whitwell had been playing, and he put Morgan wide left, really, with Hegebow Central and uh left three, he left Mulumbi and Collier and MD Equito and Rabbi probably pushed on a little bit, but he stretched it, I think it was like a 4-3-3, which actually uh attacked. I think uh I think it was a plan, obviously, to attack Wrexham down the flanks where they're you know what wing backs, especially Cabore, you know, they they are adventurous, and I think having Price and Morgan wide uh was was a was a good plan. It could have come earlier, but it it came. It doesn't matter when it came, it came, and you know, I think all three uh and you called it a redemption goal, we'll come to the winning goal. But the the first goal, Hegeburgh got involved. I think the ball comes out to Morgan, his shots half blocked. And I actually thought Price had taken too much time out of his first touch, to be honest.

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Yeah, first touch. And we then slammed it home. You were thinking first touch, weren't you? You were thinking like let's hit it first time, and he just had the composure just to bring the ball under his control and and get the ball out of his feet, and then and then was able to finish really from close range. Yeah, and it was just that maybe a little bit of a stroke of luck, the way the fact the the way that the ball the bounced to him, but he was in the right place at the right time, and you can't really have you know, you make your own luck in that respect.

SPEAKER_00 7:53

There was a surge there, wasn't there? There was there were it changed then, there wasn't any.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

It was coming before that, I think.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

And I love the line that you came up with with the third with the the the winner, which involved Phillips, Price, and Hegebow. Yeah, you called it a redemption goal.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

I just think Nat Phillips has had a pretty difficult couple of weeks either side of the international break where you know he's had that that really unfortunate error that he made at Wools, which ultimately cost Albion the the Derby. And then whether you argue it was a penalty or not, the the fact the fact is you know it was he was penalised for it against Blue. So it's not been a great couple of games for him in what uh big you know in big derby matches, and and Buzzer uh not for the first time, Mozart's very, very happy to to chop and change all areas of the of the pitch, and that includes the centre halves, where you would normally expect a bit of continuity. And he took Phillips aside this week and said, you know, no big deal, this is this is why I'm this is why I'm going with Mepp and Campbell. And the pair of them, as I said, I thought they were very good, but he still, you know, when Meppham comes off with what was it, 10 minutes to go with a bit of cramp, Phillips steps onto the pitch, absolutely no issues, no issues once we've I didn't for a second think that Wrexham were going to come back and score again once we got the second one, and that was a largely large part to do with Phillips and Campbell, the way they defended the uh the edge of the penalty area. But his pass for Price, the way he picked it out, uh I thought it was I thought it was magnificent. And and first time cross, wouldn't it? First time cross, everything about the the the you know the the pace on the ball, the the the measuring of it, it was just spot on. Price, you know what price can do in those areas, and him playing on the right hand side in the front three, that opens up more possibilities now for what we might see going forwards.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

It means that it's the formation in my I mean it works particularly against the three at the back defence there, but I think Price has played all over the park, hasn't he, for a variety of ways? Yeah, and um and then we we saw a we saw uh a trademark finish, didn't we?

SPEAKER_01 9:48

We did, yeah, thank god. I mean, I think everybody associate with Albi and uh even those who have been giving Hegeber some stick in the last few weeks will be just over the moon for him because how could you not be, you know, he's somebody who has struggled. I I made this point on another podcast recently on Albion Analysis, where you know, like someone like Kenneth Zahor would just kick up a stink, really, with his performances and his attitude, and you know, being that number nine uh one of one of Hegeber's predecessors. The one thing you'd never say about Hegeber is that he's not giving it. If it may be, maybe he's down in the dumps, maybe his confidence is low, but you know that he generally tries to apply himself in a certain way, even if things aren't coming off. And tonight, again, you've already alluded to it, even before the goal, the first goal, the equalizer, he plays the part, fantastic ball out to Price, who gets a bit of luck in the sense that the pass to Morgan is poor, Mulumby recycles it, and then you know, the rest is history. Uh, and then, of course, right place, right time, and it's not it doesn't feel like it's rocket science. Albion haven't done it enough this season. They've done it for him at Derby, it was on a plate for him at Norwich, and even if he hadn't scored with his arms, he'd have bundled it in with his chest. And then again tonight, you know, you put the ball in the six-shard box, and he's in the right place, the right time. He knows where the back of the net is, regardless of what where where his confidence is, where his head's at. And I I thought it was really, really refreshing. You know, he was able to have that moment with the Albion fans behind the um, you know, in front of the tunnel at the end of the game, and and just who knows, Steve, who knows? That might just be something that we said it after Derby and it was a bit of a false storm, but hopefully we've just got something to ignite it.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

These little periods are really important in in, you know, it's not always about you know uh let's see, you know, what uh March, April, when it's it's really is nitty-gritty. But this these are the games, these are the moments in October, November that can really have a little definition of of your season. But I was interested because I I was waiting to speak to uh Hegeber uh after the game, which is a piece I'll I'll write for Fourth Russell tomorrow. You were in Morrison's presser afterwards, yeah, and it was fascinating that you said that he Morrison said he didn't speak to Hegeber about about the team beforehand.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

He did speak to he spoke to Matt, he spoke to Nat Phillips and he spoke to uh Felix about good psychology of this. Yeah, I think maybe just uh his paraphrasing here, but he basically alluded to the fact that he sometimes saying nothing and actions being louder than words, etc., means that if a striker like Hegel know it he'll know in his own head that he hasn't been at it at Molyneux or or you know, okay, small bargins against Blues. If he scores rather than hits the post, then it's a different outcome. But he'll know that generally he's not been at the levels that I'll be in expecting to be at, that he's already hit previously while he's been at the club. Uh, we've been talking about it before the game. I mean, before tonight, was it three and thirty-five or something?

SPEAKER_00 12:42

It was going stretching all the way back to uh his good run the round this time that's seven and seven, I think.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

So three and thirty-five. No striker wants to put their name to that kind of record. So you know that he's somebody who is going to want to atone for that. And maybe taking a step back in order to go forwards. And again, I made this point before this week. If you take him off the bench uh later in the game, it's what really ignited his season last year. You know, when he came off the bench against Oxford, they were losing, I think, and he and he scored a late goal. And you look at some of those goals in in that run of that that run of form that he had, where he was coming off the bench to score some really, really important goals.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

That's funny, isn't it, when you you think about I I mean, I I thought it was I thought it was uh the right call to leave uh them both out tonight, Morgan and Hegeber. But uh you just you just I know the goal makes an enormous difference and the winning goal makes it an even bigger difference, but I just think that might have released some pressure in the player. If he comes on again tonight from the start, you know, he's gonna lead the line, he's he's uh but sometimes it can release a player from the pressure, you know, and then you you come on and you can only have a positive impact, you know. I mean, so it's all all this psychological stuff, you know, because there are question marks, is it is it his mental approach, is it a physical thing, is he good enough? You know, all these things are playing the mind of of the player as well, and he's just got to blank it all out. And I we hope, you know, this this you know it's just a goal, it's a winning goal. Hopefully, it'll be the the start of a little run, you know, for him.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

And you're right, in the sense that the pattern of of this evening, the way it's played out for him. If you remember the derby game the other week, where uh he scored the goal, it was a really, really good goal at the near post first time signature goal, but was generally struggling quite a bit in that game. And Morrison, because of the nature of the situation, Albion were down to ten men, he decided to take him off at half time. We didn't see him again in the second half, and it was a real backs against the wall job for those who remained on the pitch. So he probably didn't feel the benefits of that goal in the way that he ought to today. And if you can go into the Blackburn game on Saturday, another good team who I think off the top of my own head, I think they play three at the back as well. I I might be wrong, but I'm I'm sure that that's been utilised at some point or another, then you've got you've got another decision to make. Uh you know, as I say, Stuart will take a little bit of time. This is the first league start he's had at this level ever in his life.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

So, you know, we can't expect Patricks and you know Benzema like football. We're gonna have to uh you know have a little bit of patience with a player like him. Hegeber, by comparison,'s been around the block a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Well, he he obviously can take the knocks. I mean, I spoke to a Norwegian journalist, I mentioned to him tonight actually, that I'd spoken to a Norwegian journalist called Stefan Opheim last week. And uh Hegeber said tonight, oh he yeah, he's a good good journalist. And he said that at Bran, I mean he's only he's only a youngster, isn't he? 24, 25. Oh, yeah, he's not younger. But he said in his four or five years at Bran, he was really in and out of the side, and he was in and out of goals. He's not a big goal scorer, and his form did come and go, you know. Uh he's not a complete natural, uh, but his fight and his mental approach was always got him out of trouble, you know, and he always battled himself back into fall. Uh so there's a there's you know, we were questioning, we are we are we and we there still will be, but um uh that was that is a big, big uh moment tonight, and and we roll forward. And I think there will be questions also asked about any changes Morrison is making from game to game. It's another five tonight, and it was a five at the weekend. And some people might think, oh, it's too many, it's too many, gotta get some stability. He's trying to find the right blend, isn't he?

SPEAKER_01 16:39

I think so. It's also horses for courses, and this is something that is needed, um, you know, really going forwards, depending on the opposition, how how brave are we gonna be? We've got to play certain players to fit certain systems in or or certain approaches. Playing Watford or Chelten or QPR at home is gonna be different to playing Wolves Away, for example, for example. So you're gonna have to kind of pick and choose your battles, and that goes down to the personnel available as well. And I know that's not as cut and dry as it might seem because you'll have to take all sorts of form and confidence levels of footballers into the equation. And tonight, as you say, not just to Hegebur, but Morgan as well. He's been so we've relied so much on Morgan as a source of goals early on in this season that I think really, again, you know, somebody who has looked to has looked sharp tonight, he's come on, yeah. He's had he's had the the role in the build-up to the price goal. Yeah, he he he's danced into the penalty area like he did at Norwich at one point and perhaps was just crowded out of the end. And I said to you, didn't I? You know, at one point he maybe it's not the most sporting thing in the world to do, but he could have gone down actually. There were there were there were opportunities for him to maybe go down and he would have won a penalty. I I think it's important now for Albion just as a as a baseline, really, just to have a better better scattering of goals from across the team. We can't rely on Hegel Morgan every single week. No, uh you know, Stewart's still bedding in, as in Google's still bedding in. Whitwell's not gonna score loads and loads of goals. I do think players like Price, I mean, even Malumby's normally good for three, four, five goals a season. We've talked about the centre halves before. Callum Styles has got a couple this season, which has been really, really good.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

A lot of players need to attribute.

SPEAKER_01 18:18

We need, yeah, we're not we haven't got two guys that are gonna go and score 40 goals between them, probably. So we need to just probably yeah, we just need to find that that that blend, really. And the players are there, Collier, Mira, you know, the players are there, I think, to really, really uh affect games.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

I'll I'll I'll I'm coming to the end of this little quick quick fire reaction uh pod, but I just noticed at the end there where I was waiting for some a player or two, uh the head of recruitment, Ian Pierce and uh Dominic Price were both pitch side waiting to have a quick chat with Morrison. And obviously, after a win, you know, they'd be pleased all round, and you know, and so it was it's good now. They will be pleased with some of the contributions of some of the some of the players because there's a lot of new players, but I'll I'll leave it with two. I think they've found one in Pereira, but we we'd like the look of him after his obviously his derby trial, uh you know, with his red card, but he's looked solid at right back, and and I think he he's even in the space of two games, less impetuous and hot-headed than he than he looked at first. And Collier, Collier's now looking like he's probably might even be looking at him plus Diakite or Malumby, you know. So if you're gonna play in that two in there, because he's he's he's looking he's looking like you know, he's a fixture.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

The way he looks after the ball, I think, is vital. And and don't get me wrong, Diakite has done this and he's had a probably an overdue breather this evening. He's come on for the last five to see the game out, but you've got to take into account the air miles he's done in the last three weeks. You know, it's it's only right that he when he can. It was a win-win tonight, wasn't it? We give Diakita the the best part of a night off, and Albion come away with a win anyway. And for us, I mean, maybe styles aside, Diakite's practically been first name on the team sheet for the longest time now. But Collier, I love the way he goes about his business. He's he's so comfortable on the ball, he's so happy to receive the ball in any kind of environment, in any kind of situation. There could be pressure on, but he keeps things so simple. I think there is a very, very early understanding with Rabbi as well. Uh, really, when it they're both very, very good ball players. Rabbi's a fantastic ball carrier. The way he went about, you know, bringing the with his athleticism tonight and the way he got about. I mean, the first 10 minutes, he burst past his man into the penalty area, almost like he wasn't there. Couldn't we have pen that? Uh well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

So so if you But he is careless on the ball sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 20:48

Sometimes some of his passes are a little bit over here, and and that goes for one or two others as well. But I I think there is so much to be excited about with with Zingula because he you forget that he's 20 years old, he's brand new to this country. He's he's chasing balls in the channels tonight when Phillips and stars, etc., are booting the ball away from Albion's goal, deep into stoppage time. Zingula's the one that is you know trying to press high as hard as he can, and at the full-time whistle, he's just collapsed to the floor as kind of needed lifting up by his teammates and staff because of how much energy he's exerted. So I think there's an awful lot to like. I like the fact his attitudes there as well. Um, things don't always come off for him, but quite frankly, if they did, he'd be playing for France's national team and he wouldn't be playing for the Albion. So there's loads and loads to like about someone like Zingula, the way he's gone about it, and Collier as well. I think there's a real there's a really nice midfield dynamic. Do we have enough out wide?

unknown 21:40

No.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

I'd argue no. Not certainly not one Mikey Johnson's not involved. It's another night where Tamar Bani's services haven't been required.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

And we don't know about Tunde. We don't know about Tunday. We've found a way tonight, and again, we've found a way, and we've had a we've had a really, really, really brilliant five minutes there, which has really sort of uh kept. Some of the growing little bit of you know uh apprehension, a bit of anxiety. It's really calmed people down, look at the league table, okay. You know, 17 points after 10, he's bloody good going. You know, but it's um it's definitely sort of um there was a bit of chat tonight, wasn't there, about with Morrison saying, I've seen some people say we're in a slump uh and that raised a few eyebrows, and it might have been me, I might have I might have well have written that. I don't know. But you know, where a two game when you lose two derby games in the manner that we did, there was there was a little bit of a depression hanging over the Hawthorns, a little bit, and and definitely, definitely been lifted tonight.

SPEAKER_01 22:39

Yeah, without doubt. And as you've already touched on there, on such nights and such spells within matches, can seasons be defined, really. We we don't know where this Albion team can go. Uh it's very, very early, and I would still I would still uh call for patience, even now, even in the good times, even on the on the nights which you know we'll look back on as a fan base and as journalists and say, God, that was a good night, wasn't it? Like we're like we did at Derby a few weeks ago where there were three and a half thousand in the away, and and everyone was just really, really enjoying being part of a team that had given everything and a win on the road, and those motorway trips home at night time make it all the worthwhile because Albin haven't done enough winning on the road in the last four or five years. But even then, even now on nights like tonight, I would still plead patience in the sense that it is a young team and there'll continue to be bumps in the road. It's a long whole season, and this squad, which isn't the biggest in the league, will eventually and inevitably on an in a season like this get stretched in the winter, and you know, we just need to, I think, still just make sure we can see quite clearly that there is the real makings of a of a decent squad, um, which is kind of still in its infancy, and plenty to work with, I think. With with with, of course, additions that still need to be made. Uh, we still need to see um width added to this squad, or certainly width to be made available from within it. We still need more teeth in attack, but I I like a lot of what I've seen, and I would have said this after the Blues game on Saturday, to be honest, and in other defeats at Middlesbrough, Europe at Middlesbrough, Steve, at the beginning of the season, how well Albion played that day. Um, and but for a few officiating calls, they might have left that game with something as well. There's there's still lots to like.

SPEAKER_00 24:20

We're still trying to play, we're still trying to play. I mean, I don't think we're as sweet as we were in that game at Middlesbrough in defeat, and and at Newcastle also in defeat. We're not we're not as sweet as we were in those games, but it's interesting tonight. It's a tight ground at the race course, and we were literally sat, literally, the the the what the the Wrexham fans and a group of chaps uh sat right behind us, and it was interesting. We didn't react to anything, Joe. We were pretty calm, but they were complimentary about Albion almost throughout the game, uh you know, obviously delighted with their goal and what but they really liked the football that we played, and sometimes we don't appreciate that, you know. We were a bit oh, we've we've got nothing up front, and we're a little bit, you know, uh lightweight up front, and we were all a bit negative about that. But it was interesting to hear some of the away uh the fans behind us being really complimentary about the football that we were playing. Uh uh, and also, you know, I think we've got and I think Morrison is learning on the job here. He's really learning on the job. This is a different cattle of fish from you know, saving the club from relegation, uh, as brilliant as that was. This is this is now he's in the heat of it, and uh definitely patience required, yeah. Have we got a chance against Blackburn at home? We've got a chance at Preston before we hit three teams. I think that will really be a test, Millwall, Southampton, West Ham. And I think we'll really know where we are after that little run.

SPEAKER_01 25:50

But we'll enjoy nights tonight, night nights like tonight in the meantime.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Yeah, even if I'm driving home, we'll enjoy, we'll enjoy the journey back. Absolutely boing boing. Boing boing.