Fifty Points, No Three-Point Line: Roger Galo

Roger Galo ('79) is third on Juniata's all-time scoring list, dropped 50 in a game before the three-point line existed, and had the Seattle SuperSonics calling. Then he spent 17 years asking why nobody shoots better than they did 50 years ago. Physicists, anatomists, a boxing glove at LaSalle, and misaligned rims at St. Joe's. Now it's a book. Mix that in with Tom’s WVU adventure, Ty Kozak in Brazil and a team GPA over 3.0, and we got another episode of the best D3 basketball podcast in the country!

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This is a Merrick Studios podcast. This week on the Juniata men's basketball show. Pete Marovitch and his father came to Juniata and performed a camp there. And he would, I think they traveled with this snake in a cage and he in a demonstration to show how quick his hands were. He would put his hands in the cage and pull it back out before the snake could bite it. That's quick. I'm Tom Frank. I'm Biz. I'm Coach Greg Curley. And this is your Juniata Men's Basketball Show. Welcome listeners. I'm Tom Frank and I am joined each and every week by Drew Besket, AKA Biz and your Juniata basketball coach, Greg Curley. As we talk all things Juniata, men's college basketball. All right, fellas, I got two things to open up with here. Yep. One of them is a personal item. And then the second one, we got to talk about some, some honors that were given to the, to the basketball team. Cool. All right. Number one, I just had to get your opinion on this. So we're all, at least me and Biz, we're at that time now where we got kids going to college. Right. We're now experiencing it all. So I got to tell you what happened to me today. I had to drive to West Virginia to drop off my son for a camp trip that was for freshmen. So we had to sign up for one of these camp trips. They were all throughout the summer. Right. I've heard of these actually. All right. So I drive three and a half hours. I get out, we get to this place and we pull in. I'm a little nervous because I don't see anybody else here. And then I'm like, worried that I got the address wrong. So I get out of the car and just as we're like standing there a guy comes around the corner It's at this campground and he's like hey you're here for the the West Virginia adventure and we're like, yeah. Yeah, we're here He's like bring all your stuff up and we'll check you in I was like, hey, where is everybody else? And he said well, you're the first ones here now granted I got there right on time I was supposed to be there but nine o'clock. She's like you're the first ones there. So was alright So Grey's getting all his stuff and we walk up there and just as we get up there the guys like oh You must be Grayson Frank I was like, that's kind of weird. How do you know who he was? You know? And then I'm looking at the signup sheet and I figured out why they knew who it was. Gray is the only male on this entire camping trip. Oh boy. Wow. I don't know how he pulled that off, but bravo to him. I said to them, Hey, did we sign up for the wrong thing? And he goes, no, it just so happened that every other person who signed up was a female for this particular four day span and Gray. This would have never come out of the woods. wouldn't take the message. I'm with you guys though. My immediate thought was you just hit the gold mine here. mean, he's got a leg up on every other dude coming into freshman year now. Thank you for agreeing with me. So I wanted to share that to see if I was the only one who thought, well, that sounds so bad to it was my daughter and they were all guys. We were out of there. We're rescheduling. We're absolutely rescheduling. That is correct. Yes. So that's I did. I'm not afraid to admit it. Three and a half hours there. was there for five minutes and three and a half hours back. How long is there for the whole week? Uh, pick them up on Wednesday. Here's the other thing. No cell phone. I have his cell phone with me. That's good. Yeah. I wouldn't want any evidence of that. Do anything like this. What's that? Yeah, we have. Yeah, we have what's called an inbound program. So you can do whitewater rafting, can do sports, you can do, there's one on like food, like food and drink. where you eat in Huntington? Yeah, well, they'll take them to restaurants, go to Pittsburgh State College, whatever you learn how to do that stuff. And you like taste different foods and stuff. A lot of our guys have done whitewater rafting, pretty similar. There's outdoors, there's sports. So then you'll go to like Pirates games and, or you'll get tours of stadiums, stuff like that. Yeah, it's really pretty cool. just had some guys finish that last week. There's a couple of different times during this, during the year, it attaches to an orientation so you can stick around and do that stuff. But yeah. What did your guys choose? Did they do whitewater rafting? What, what did we do? I think food and cuisine or whichever one it was called. And I think a of other guys, a couple of the other guys might've done the kind of the sports thing. That makes sense. Yeah. All right. My second item before we get to a very, very special guest today, my second item, we got to give coach props. The, uh, the team was honored with the national association of basketball coaches, the team academic excellence award, which is only given the programs that every single member has a GPA of 3.0 or higher. So well done. Well, mean, the team GPA is three or higher. Yeah, we had, I mean, we've really made progress there again, when we were so young two years ago, and you have that many freshmen to see where those guys are now is pretty parked for the course with kind of the development through our program over the years. We have, blessed with the three juniors that are exceptionally strong students. were all given the first team or whatever it was, NABC honors court as well. We're talking about Ben, Dylan and Ty. Yeah. Ben Landisman, Ty Kozak and and Dylan Christ. The good news is we have some other guys that are ready for those honors next year that are sophomores and some are refreshment if they stay on track. yeah, really strong group and that's why we're excited for this year, the leadership those guys show. And there's a strong correlation over the years with how we do academically and how we've done on the court. A lot of that has to do with maturity and older guys and the development through time. But a lot of it also just has to do with the habits that correlate. in of discipline focus, know, commitment to something bigger and guys that are focused on where they're trying to go. Yeah, I was actually talking to some of our incoming guys because we had day camp last week and four first year guys worked it with one sophomore. But, you know, our three seniors, you know, they're looking and trying to get jobs right now and like the different stages. So you're dropping gray off, you know, and then these guys are, you know, right now hoping to have jobs by the time they get to campus. So it's pretty cool to be a part of those four years as a coach is still probably the thing I enjoy the most. And it's really Good to see their hard work paying off in the classroom. Oh, since this is a basketball show to a coach curly, why don't you enlighten the audience on the honor that Ty Kozak has ascended this summer? Yeah, he, got invited, uh, to stay, to play with one of the USA select foreign tours. So he's in Brazil right now. He's the third guy that we've had do that. believe Alex Raymond did it. I believe chase Houston did actually fourth. And Jeremy Hayes actually did that. Now, you have to be an all conference selection as an underclassman or not a senior. So his junior year is all conference and that's how a lot of times you get the invite. There's actually the national player of year is actually on his team from division three. So he's playing with some of the top players in the country. He'll be in Brazil. I think they went to 26 and then I forget, it's like nine days. And then so he should be back here shortly. But yeah, it's a great, the guys that have done that, it has really made a big difference. I think just that chance, anytime you get to go do that, play with other guys, experience professional basketball at that level, learn how to kind of match or meld with other guys. It's a little bit like, you they used to talk about the Olympics, you get to see how these other guys work, right? And their focus and how they play and how they prepare and approach things. So super excited. He's definitely earned it. A lot of travel involved getting there, but the guys that have done it in the past. They've grown as players and come back different. So I'm excited to see what this does to help tie and how that translates to the success for our team. Can't imagine that. Can't imagine what his next level is going to look like, Well, if he can capitalize off the last 12 games and keep the direction he's going, he's got a chance to really have a great senior year. And again, he's one of our top students. He's got a bright future there. I he really works hard. one of the best competitors we've ever had. So, uh, we're excited to see what he can do this year. right. Is wait for this transition talking about guys who have come off great senior seasons. got one on today that might've had the greatest senior season in the history of Juniata basketball. Our guest today had a legend plain and simple Roger Gaylow suited up from 75 to 79. Do I have that right? That's right. Yes. 75 to 79. Get this. He's still third on the all time scoring list with over 1600 points. The guy could flat out score. Back then he was one of the best in the country enough that Marty Blake and the Seattle supersonics had him on their radars and NBA prospect. But here's what I love about this guy's story. He didn't just walk away from the game. He spent 15 years obsessing over one question. Why aren't guys shooting better? And he figured it out. Then came the, GALO method, which has taken him from AAU gyms to the NBA to research lab at NC state. Now it's all in his new book, the pursuit of the perfect shot. This, this book might be about you, matter of fact, the pursuit of the perfect shot. We're to get into that. can translate that to golf, Tom. I'm in. You're in. Roger. Welcome to the show. Welcome. you. I'm grateful to all of you for having me on. mean that. All right. So let's. Let's dive into some of the senior year stuff here, because I got a few things written down here. So you hold the single game scoring record with 50 points. Is this right? There's Kings and February 3rd, 1979. Yeah. I remember that. Yes. I think I filed out in regulation time. I think, and I think that went over time. You filed out in that game? I think I did on that one. Yeah. I could be, we'll have to fact check that. We'll fact check that. You also finished with 19 school records, finished third in the country in scoring, 27.7 per game, which then also got you into the Junior Atahull of Fame. yeah. Yeah. Right. That was quite an honor. Yeah. Great job, Thomas Frank. I appreciate that. Thank you. What an introduction. Well, now that was before Tom, that was before the three point line too. So he had 50. Yes, you're right. Another question I have were Freshman allowed to play varsity back then. did play. Okay. Cause there was a point, well, at least in division one where freshmen can play varsity, right? Right. Yeah. You've got good, good historical knowledge there. Yeah. We were actually talking about pistol Pete Maravich this morning. So that's why that came up. So, oh, were you? Yeah. Here's a, maybe, maybe not so little unknown fact from, from your region, the Huntington area, that part of PA. But Pete Marovitch and his father came to Juniata and performed a camp there. they came from the Western PA Pittsburgh area. Yeah. And from like Aliquippa. Yeah. Aliquippa. And he would, I think they traveled with this snake in a cage and he in a demonstration to show how quick his hands were. He would put his hands in the cage and pull it back out before the snake could bite it. That's quick. This was his road trip that he did. Yeah. Wow. I hadn't heard that before. Yeah, you got to be quick. That's quick. I actually give out an article every year to our guys. It's a story. It's an article about Pete Maravich running his camp at Juniata for a number of years. So good. Great. And so we try to educate our guys on that. get, you know, there were stories when he went to the NBA and he still ran his camp, he would, he would come in in a helicopter, get dropped off for camp and then leave his dad would run it. So a lot of the. Old timers here and all the guys like John Loss was a long time high school coach for about 30 some years worked at camp. And I hear stories about that all the time. The other guy I hear stories about all the time is Roger Gaylow. So it's always good to talk to him and connect and follow what he's done since then. So you got to tell us how do you get to Juniata? What's, what's the story that got you to this little school in the middle of central Pennsylvania? You know, there was a. a gentleman who did such a great sales job pretty much on me, highlighting that I'm going to rebuild the, if I come there, I'm going to be responsible, contribute to the rebuilding of basketball at Juniata College. And the rebuilding part of me, that part of it appealed to me. I've always been a bit of an underdog, usually always playing up, you know, guys from Pittsburgh Pitt, from Duquesne, guys level. of talent like that. Then he talked about how my mother would be able to watch me on TV and how I would be close to home. so he said all the right things and I would be covered by television. So it would be broader than the little community. And the little community was very appealing. And the camp was very scenic to say the least. And it's only gotten better and better over the years. The gym did come, but not during my time there. It was supposed to be two years by, by my second year, it was supposed to be the new gym worth your playing in that. But anyway, that was a short-lived coach who recruited me to play there, who then went left and went off to a ball state, which was his dream. Dream job. And so I think he was using it as a stepping stone and the action, everything took place at a little faster pace than he anticipated. And not as fast a pace as I had anticipated with the new gym and all the other stuff surrounding that. that's, then the story about P I had heard about Pete Marovitch doing the camp there and clinic there. And coincidentally, there were three players who I tried to pattern my game after being genetically defective, six feet short as a basketball player challenge. knew what I was bright enough. And that's, that's the. contradiction of terms, as you'll find out in a minute here, I was bright enough to recognize I'd better become the best shooter that I could possibly become. So I patterned that part of my game after a guy by the name of Rick Mount, which goes back to the, see you guys nodding your head way back to the seventies. A beautiful shot. Beautiful. Had all the correct elements, textbook. The other guy was Pete Maravich. So my boy handling, my flashiness, my whatever, my unguardability part of the game that I had fed the shooting and vice versa. And then the other guy that I patterned my game after was a guy by the name of Earl the Pearl Monroe. Earl the Pearl. A pivot spot, have you going every which way, which believe it or not helped me to, I think in one game, shoot 21 or 22 five shots. at Juniata college because I could draw fouls, even though I wasn't a great foul shooter at 77%, um, which was part of the part, part of what I talk about in the book. Yeah. Now I'm a 98 % and 98 under difficult circumstances or game like, know, three at a time, different baskets, all of that. But, um, there were, there were segments where. For example, in that game, I think I missed one foul shot. And from that became a learning experience that I didn't really pick up on until many years later that I began training during this journey, other players, and it was that part of the game. If you're undersized, you need to do a lot. You need to become extraordinary at some things. And so I get into that with some players that I trained. I get undersized. Yeah. So. So you show up at Juniata. First of I want to get back to this television thing. Were you ever on TV? What do you mean, they televised? I was. I think it was Altoona PA, their local station, and they interviewed me. So he told some of the, some of what he was telling me came to fruition. Yeah. Maybe not the way it was pitched to me, but yeah. And very frankly, and I deal with this a lot when I'm training guys now, my senior year in high school between planner fasciitis and the other star that we had on the team and circumstances surrounding him. I questioned my own ability to play at Pitt. Pitt came at me pretty hard. Tim Gergerich, I don't know if you gentlemen know that name, but Tim Gergerich was at a lot of our practices. Trying to recruit me and boy I regret looking back on that I regret no offense to Juniette at all But I regret not not taking that step possibly, but there have been others Chuck Daly I didn't know that the Chuck Daly felt about shooting the way I came to learn later on Yeah, that's probably why he was interested in me playing a pen now academic so Chuck Daly was that pen at that point? We talking about the Chuck Daly that I'm thinking of the the legendary Chuck the legendary Chuck Daly. Yeah Who coined the phrase, the great shooting conceals many sins. was something that as recently as a few years ago, I heard that by a couple of former NBA players. Man, if I had known that I may not have gone to shooting, but I was worried about academically staying there. I I ended up being the only family member to ever go to college. I really, my father, whenever he was president, was kind of hell bent on me going to the coal mines. Okay. That's, that's quite a different life. That would have been departure. Yeah. And I saw what he looked like coming out of that place and it wasn't, it was scary. So I knew one thing I'm, I'm going to go to college. I wasn't sure where, but I'm going to go to college and play basketball. Yeah. So tell us about that, that team. what was it, who were some of your teammates from that era? From high school or the Judy. Um, Tay Walton ball was a player that we brought in that the coach brought in from, I think he was going to another school. was recruited by the American university down in the area. We got him to play there. The coach did, um, a kid by the name of Dane Medich, who was, I think he had been at Western, yeah, Western Kentucky. He transferred out of Kentucky to play there. Bobby, Bobby Mc McDonald, I think was McNally, Bobby McNally played out of the Johnstown area. Eric, Eric or, um, Musselman. was a very good guard, another guard on the team, more of a point guard Musselman, Bobby Musselman who played. Um, we had a, we had a Andy. I'm trying to think of Andy's last name. He was our center at our center was six feet. Okay. What's your center? What's your center height coach? I mean, we are center right now. Six five, like two 30, but are we have a four man at six eight. like, you know what I mean? And then our depth, we've got some six, seven, six, eight guys. Yeah. It's And we had another big guy, NBA type big guy body. By the name of Tim Tabor, who I think has remained in the area, if I'm not mistaken, relatively Tim Tabor was a big force to reckon with on the boards. But again, at that six, five level, probably two 40 to 35 to, you know, pretty, pretty solid, pretty solid guy. But I didn't have the guys, I didn't have the height or the guys that I played with in the summer. When I went back home during the summer that were seven feet long, seven feet tall with. You know, could misplace a ball and my God, they made me look like a superstar. The coach actually started assigning and this helped me on a discipline level because you know, Pete Maravich style playing, had a lot of clever passes tricky and I would end up hitting my teammates in the face or it would go through their hands or so it started assigning those failed attempts to me. He said, you're going to have a lot of turnovers. he gave those turnovers to you for that. All right. like it. Okay. If they can't, if they can't handle this ball, I'm going to start shooting more. That's kind of what I reported. There you go. Sorry, coach. Hey, that's how you get 50 right there. that's how it works. And you know, credit to the guys and I probably don't need to go into this, but I mean this. Those guys, I was more self-conscious about shooting so much as I was in high school. We had two prolific scores, me and the other guard that went to pit, Duquesne that played with Norm Nixon. wow. Good ball player. This kid was, and got to try out with the red R back up in the Celtics. Anyway, so I was, I was a little more aware of that part of my game. Maybe not to the. to the extent where I would risk losing a game because I wanted it to be about me. And I had experienced that. So I knew I wasn't going to be that guy. I would, you know, guys, I would almost shut down and guys would be yelling, shoot it, shoot it, shoot it. Which is very unselfish of them to want me to continue to put the ball up. So not a lot of teammates will do that. No, not at all. No, I like to shoot. How, so over the years, how many times have you gotten to go back to Juniata and or do you, do you follow the team at all? do follow the team. As a matter of fact, I followed one of the best years I think, and I hope I got the year right. 2018 or 2017 where you had a, you know, like five or six losses, I think. But I don't give, I'd love to get back a lot more. Fortunately, some of the timing of some of the events that I've got to be involved in. conflict with some of the events that Juniana is having where I'd love to get back and mingle with everybody and see what's happening and revisit and all that. No, I haven't been able to get back as frequently as I would like, frankly. But I think about it a lot and I've tried to follow it. I've even tried to attend a few games over the years while you guys are traveling, just to pop in, even if I could just pop in for a couple, you know, a first half or minutes of a first half, depending on where you were playing. Yeah. In my area, or if I was traveling out, you know, a little west of here. Yeah. Yeah. I would just be curious. mean, cause that's a, an area. wonder how different the campus would be even back from when you were there till now. mean, is it dramatically different? Is it not? don't know. I'd say dramatically to my perspective. I'd say dramatically, you know, it's, it's, it's not a Penn State effect. Yeah. That same period of time, but. Yeah, somewhat dramatic. mean, dramatic to me is I'm a little biased. Do you have a better facility to play basketball in than I had? They do have a nice one right now. Very nice. Your weight room, your conditioning equipment, strength training, or probably a little upscale from what I had. Those were promises. They finally came through. I don't know how many years later, but yeah. So he misjudged the timing, but anyway, it was, look, I tell people this and I mean this. Had I gone somewhere else, had I got, by the way, had I gone to pursue that in the NBA, I'm real convinced I probably wouldn't have stumbled into what I did with regards to shop making and demystifying it and simplifying it and recognizing that though the game has changed in many ways, I think. in a dumbing down kind of effect at that level. I think some very valuable things have come through it as well. Now guys, my size, they can be superstars because of that three point line. Yeah, that's very true. Yeah. There's no height requirement. mean that, oh my God. And I shot, you know, I talked about the green light. had a green light and that lack of discipline and that ego that, you know, wait, coach, don't tell me I can't make this shot. Watch me. Yeah. And making a tougher shot than it needed to be. Well, that perspective gives me a lot of credence with the guys I'm training and urging them to take the right kinds of shots. And I didn't have to, I didn't have that. I had that green light and it can be, it can work against you. know, I reflect, I reflect back on that one little known fact, I guess about my, as, as difficult a shot selection as I took. I think I shot around 54% as a guard. some crazy, you know, cause I was like, I was a miniature version of Pete Maravich. You were just pulling up. He didn't play like more reef cheeks. He played like Pete Maravich. Yeah. Yeah. know, through the legs and then behind the back and I loved the fan reaction and Juniata that arena, that pit. was intimidating while I was playing there. Yeah. mean, they on the mezzanine and the, we had back then was a, a W and D, uh, section, wild and delirious. They're sitting right behind that now. Wild and delirious. like that. And we're bringing it back. Yeah. Yeah. Right behind the visiting bench and harassing them the whole time. As well as the fans looking down on you, yelling, screaming at you. And the people were lined up. were outside watching through the doorway, which was kind of fun. was an exciting time. To have that community. So before we go past Juniata, I do have to ask, so who were the big rivals back then? So in the seventies, who were the teams that, what conference were you in at that point? What was the ECAC? ECAC. Okay. AC and the likes of Lehigh. Believe it or not. Remember Lehigh? Yeah. Three school. Albright. played Albright. Textile. It was called then Philadelphia. Herbie McGee. Legendary shooting coach out here in Philadelphia. Herbie McGee. Now it's called Jefferson University, I think. Okay. That was a big rivalry. Albright Scranton was strong. Scranton was still a rival back then. Yeah. Scranton was a big one. Long time rival. Franklin and Marshall was part of the mix, but I guess it depended on the year, you know, as, is the case sometimes. Um, let me see. There was a California, California, California PA. Cal. Yep. Right. They usually were strong contender, but those were probably the. Like, like, call me, okay. So timing has come back around and is now back in the conference. I had heard about the back in the, from here in Philly being, having moved in Philadelphia, I've been to some of the games where the college coaches will show up and, some, some of those people have enlightened me that like, me, God, I don't know when it was maybe in the fifties or sixties had won an NCAA championship. You know, story kind of season. Wow. coming college. Those were some of the programs that we were most excited about playing because of the rivalry in this part of it. Which thank God, thank God will not be influenced to the degree that D1 is. Yeah. mean, that's lost. That is a total loss. It's forever lost. We were talking about this before. I still believe right now, I mean, division three is still, at least right now is still pure. Sports. love that. And I loved it about it. Right. So, so you come off of a senior year where you score almost 30 a game. What happens next? Did you float around the idea of playing beyond Juniata? What, what, or did you jump right into a workforce? I, I, in my mind, did because I had thought that I pro because of the circumstances when, when I was contacted by the Seattle supersonics, for example. Yeah. They were pretty honest with me. You know, you're going to go up to banger main banger main. And they told me, gave me a good depiction of what banger main was like at the level and the brand of ball that was being played there. was animal like basketball. I'm six feet, 170 pounds. Yeah. Animal like not a lot of activity up there. Unless you're chopping down. Well, I'm gonna go there. Yeah. Not a lot of things to do. But the reality was that guard that's on that team is being paid a lot of money. And even though, this is what the coach said to me, even though you may be arguably better than that guard, the owner who's writing those checks, he's not going to be real happy watching you play when you're not making anything like that. And that guy who's getting that money, no matter what. Whether that no cup thing is sitting on the bench. And I thought, wow, that is still true today. Yeah. was my introduction to the business of basketball. Yeah. And I thought, gee, wait a second, man. That doesn't make sense to me. Right. I'm going to go out there. I want his position. I want that playing time. Yeah. Okay. I might not need that money, but if I'm that good, I'm expecting to play. Yeah. And, um, smile when I say that, but the one thing I didn't benefit from, and I talk about this to the players I've trained is I never, never really, and this was another reason why I went to Junietta. I I was afraid how I would react thinking for the moment that at Pitt at UN, what was it? UNC Green, some of these other, Bond of a Fet, Niagara, any of these other schools that were interested in me. Even Penn, even Ivy league. Could I sit on the bench? I never sat on the bench. And what my point though is to sit next to a certain somebody like some of those coaches and watch the game from that perspective that I had never enjoyed or benefited from. It's kind of something I lost out on or I missed. Cause I talk about guys, I urge guys. to take advantage of that time and don't sit at the end of the bench. Yeah. To the coach. Sure. Listen to those murmurs, listen to those comments, listen to, or watch the game differently. Don't watch the game with the anticipation. can't wait to get in there. hope, I hope the time I hope that somebody calls. hope I know watch it with the intent of learning what's happening, trying to decipher what's happening and that can make you a better basketball player. And I never, I never had that. the fact being truthful, I don't know how I would have reacted to that. I never had to sit. Yeah. You and I don't like the way that sounds, but that's a reality. Yeah. Could I've sat and what would I've done? I've, would I've dismissed myself from the program in some kind of way surreptitiously or otherwise? I don't know. That's at the end of the day though, you probably were at the right place then for what you needed. I feel that, I certainly wouldn't have delved into what I accidentally stumbled into with regards to this unintended 17, 18 year journey now. let's get into that journey. So tell us a little bit about that. Like what, what obsessed you with the idea of this, perfect shot? I think a little bit of, you know, a lot of old, old heads will talk about, you know, they're, they're angered by the amount of money these guys are making now and blah, blah, blah. It wasn't really that it was that I saw the development. in so many other areas that, that I'm questioning my God, they're even closer for a foul shot. They're even closer. Many of these guys are six, five, six, six, six, eight. They're closer. Technically you can't use the excuse. line moved back. Well, that's my issue. The foul shot. then articles coming out about things like that, that I'm wrestling with in my own mind, because these are gut feelings or, or I'm trying to push aside my Whatever biases I may have, and we all have them. Well, I'm bitter. I'm angry. I'm no, no, I don't think I'm that, but I can't help but notice how many guys are missing file shots and then finding articles like the New York times that's doing a 50 year. I guess a snapshot of five decades in the article, which was somewhat lengthy for the New York times was all about 50 years of practicing found shooting. And no results in big black New York font style, ink and think, Whoa, whoa, what is that about? And they went through it and they explained, couldn't explain. Got coaches or practice. They have their teams practicing, but guys aren't making over this five year. just weren't seeing an improvement. The none. If needle moved, it moved as little as a 1%. Wow. 50 years. Wow. And that, Oh my God, what is that all about? And so I started questioning, gee, what? That doesn't make sense. The guy, I wasn't supposed to touch a weight. played quarterback in high school, starting quarterback for a quantity program, football back then and basketball in Pittsburgh was a hot bed. Right. lot of players, football anyway, Gaylo, if you touch a weight. Don't you bother coming out for the bath ball team. I mean, and you believe that you, okay. I'm not going to, you're going to get muscle, but right. It's laughable. those were the restrictions we were trying to play basketball in. And it's changed now. What about the equipment? So all these advancements that have gone everywhere around the game, the way we eat, the way we train, the way we condition, the way we recover the equipment, the force place, all this and shooting is declining. Now that's only five shooting. No, that happened at the Olympics where we embarrassed ourselves, right? They wrote article after New York Times, USA Today, Wall Street Journal. These articles are covering why shooting doesn't seem to be improving. So while that's happening, I'm questioning why was I such a great shooter? And that was quite a discovery in and of itself. And then I went to a temple university to talk to a physicist. And every time I went to the university to shoot at McGonagall hall, whenever I could sneak in and put some shots up and play with some good ballplayers. I would do that. And in the, in the floor level of the court was their kinesiology department. So I'm meandering through the halls and reading these interesting articles about science and the influence of physics and kinesiology. And I decided to. tap into the brain of one of those physicists. And when I showed him my release, he said to me, well, I never played basketball, but that was stupid. I'm in my fifties. I'm a little bit insulted by the way you pitched that to me. A little bit. And with all due respect, professor, you didn't play basketball? No, I didn't. But I don't need to. I don't have to, tell you what I just said. You can't physically do that. You can't, neither can anybody else. And that, what I showed him was one of the two most universal, most universal releases taught for the last 70 years. right. Now show us that relief. So I know we're on the video here, but what, what was the release that you were showing him that he said was ridiculous? Those two fingers. Coming off the two fingers. Yeah. And when you come off those two fingers. You have in order to go straight, first of all, physics, the physics part. Yeah. They're two different lengths. That's true. Round object, round object. It physically can't come off of those two fingers simultaneously in order for you to try to make it come off. You have to turn your wrist. Coach Carly, Coach Carly watch your, your guys have practice tomorrow if they're there or whenever they get back. How many guys, when they shoot, if they're right-handers, shoot and turn their wrist rightward? You have to. You said that just watched a younger girl at our day camp last week was shooting against the wall and she kept her wrist kept turning out. And that's exactly what you described. That's great. Now coach, when you did that, when you did that, when you did that, it didn't stop here. It went like this. Yeah. So your arm that is connected to your wrist is influenced by that. Hmm. Yeah. Interesting. Isn't it? Guess what? I was third in the country. I was an NBA prospect. was doing that. Just what I read every book touting growing up and I read everything I could about what shooting. I wasn't seven feet tall. I better hang my hat on shooting and more specifically making a lot of them. That's why I refer to myself as a shot making specialist versus a shooting. coach. think that's gotten water. Everybody in basketball is a shooting coach to some degree from some level on up. They all go goose neck, goose neck guys, goose neck. Well, you got to do that for what rotation. Well, after I tried to prove that physicist wrong two weeks later, I'm looking for that physicist to have another discussion. I couldn't prove them wrong. Actually, that was one of the most brilliant. hate to say it that way. The biggest discoveries. that I made immediately. Well, you can't come off of two and this was the other, index, point the index. What you still have to turn your wrist, which usually is followed by this action when a guy shoes. Uh, so it's not either of these two. What could it be? Guess what? I found out when I went and tracked him down, his advice was go talk to the professor of anatomy. Guess what? Now he's earned my respect now. Yeah. Let me go talk to another scientist, not a basketball, but by the way, I went to a lot of basketball people. I'm comfortable with basketball people. Yeah. You know, we think alike. Yeah. They don't think like us. They know things we don't know, but this is a real, do you guys golf at all? Could you imagine on a putt turning your wrist, Greg? know. What? I mean, I've done it and it's not good. Not good and well, right? Anyway, we grew up on that. here, here's a kicker. I'll chime in right now. Your kids are older, right, Tom? Yeah. I just met somebody in Vegas whose daughter, daughter is eight years old. She's being taught the same mechanics that I grew up on. Yeah. Wait, I'm pretty old. I'm much older than that eight year old and she's being taught as is if it were a boy. The same mechanics, the movements, the core movements that I grew up on. That's our cake. just hasn't changed. Yeah. The chain and the ultimate decision in that summary of that article from the New York times about file shooting is that the only thing they could make of it is nobody has come up with any innovation when it comes to the way we shoot. And I don't know why it was me, but it was me. And that was a big one. Finding out that the, and this is great. And anatomically, the straightest finger, the most centered finger in your hand is the longest. It is the straw. didn't know this. A lot of people, I'll ask them, which do you think is the straw? The thumb, the index, the right. what? Coincidentally, the strongest finger is the middle finger. Now, if I'm pointing, I don't know if you can see this, but if I'm pointing, to wherever I'm pointing with that middle finger, guess what? doesn't invite a turn. It eliminates it. It eliminates a turn. Another movement I call extraneous motion movement that you don't want to have if you're trying to shoot straight. If you could shoot straight without that time, there's a timing issue involved now when you go to release and while you're releasing. a jump shot, you're probably up in the air. And at that point in time, there's probably somebody in front of you trying to deter you from getting that ball to go where you're trying to direct it. But you're doing these things because you were taught or trained to do them based on the principles that are mostly based. And this was another discovery, kind of like the way I learned how to shoot. I watched Rick Mount and I tried to mimic what he did. And that's how I learned to shoot. Now I could have picked Larry Bird, but thank God I didn't because he has a uniquely different shot. Joe Kim Noah. I remember, Oh Mike, I twisted the ball out of his. Right. But no, those guys weren't great. mean, the one guy was a great shooter, but the point is that's what I came to realize that what we learned, what we developed and what we accepted as being the way to do it was because it had worked for somebody. to such a level and then it became copied and it became the norm. It really became the way to do it. And this, this Gooseneck action, the, the, uh, said that was ridiculous. Why was the Gooseneck ridiculous? without it though, how would you get the spin? That's what the ridiculous part was born out of. Yeah. As you go from cocked to straight is, and by the way, If you look at guys and stop video of guys shooting, you'll see that the ball leaves their hand. As soon as this snaps straight, the balls off. that the continuation is that and that continuation follows down, not followed through, but followed down and you're shooting up in a way by the way. And so we call it a follow through how to follow up. Yeah. isn't necessary, extraneous movement. Now, is that so bad? What happens after you let the ball go? Yes. But the velocity, the speed, the timing of it happening can vary. There's just more variability. Cause you might snap it quicker than, okay. Yeah. Some guys have, and you'll see this, you've seen it. I'm sure some guys have, there's a guy at the Sixers I wanted to work with who was brought. in years ago, he was a player Xavier Silas. I remember him because I would have played, had I played in the NBA, I would have played with Paul Silas. I don't think they're related, but I remember the name because of that. Xavier Silas when he was with the Sixers and he struggled with shooting mightily, he literally stress fractured because he had such a violent, violent. Oh wow. And that snap can vary. The snap, what I came to learn from the anatomist the professor of anatomy at this university. Though, and I think about that, you, you guys were all very intelligent. You've been around ball a long time. What if that anatomist said to either of you, you know, you're probably not aware of this, but do you know what the weakest part and anatomists who didn't play basketball again, another, and you didn't play basketball. weakest part of your shooting system is your From here to there, the weakest, you know what else he coined? He attached that the most finicky, the weakest, the most finicky and the most unreliable area. can see that. Yeah. I'm here to hear. And what do we play so much emphasis on? Right there. hear and being the weakest. And he said, if I think it was six pounds of pressure, only six pounds of pressure it takes to break. or damage that wrist. Now, what do we do with that wrist as a basketball player? We pass, we dribble a lot. we, we rebound and we shoot. We always talk about in here to this day about fatigue in the legs. I ran 40 miles a week in my forties. They're strong. This is very unreliable, very weak, very finicky. Very many multiple movements, 27 bones, of ligaments, blah, So whatever we can do, and this is what he challenged, said, whatever you can do to address that, you would be onto something. What could I do to read? Well, guess what? That rotation, according to the physicist, and I tried this and I tried this at Rucker Park. I'll never forget it. I drove into Rucker Park in a suit. took the jacket off. I took the tie off. I rolled my sleeves up. So 1130 at night at Rucker park in New York. Look at me. Yeah. There's a couple of guys with bottles in a bag sitting on the bleachers and I got to go in there because I don't want to delude myself. I want to ask them, cause I'm watching me doing this challenging, you know, what if I don't break my wrist? What if I don't do I still get rotation? Do I want to believe I get it? Am I deluding myself? No. I go in there. I almost started an argument between two guys on the, that are watching me and I said, please just focus on whether that ball rotates, spins, and whether my wrist goes down. That's all I want you guys to focus on. Will you do that for me? I'll buy you another bottle. I mean, that's what, one guy says, no, you know, he did. Yes, he did. So we do it again. We did it three times. They finally agreed that I did not goose that I got in that car and drove the way all the way back to Philadelphia to go home excitedly because I had another pair of eyes. Those pair of eyes may have been a little bit, but they came to an agreement at one point that that, no, I did not snap my wrist out. I did that my entire life. We all do that. Yeah. But you know what else I did that I never knew about? I never knew how my dominant eye played into my accuracy and consistency. Dominated eye. Yeah. We all have. We all have a dominant eye. we all have a dominant eye. Yeah. Just because you're right-handed doesn't mean your right eye is dominant, nor does it mean your left eye is dominant. You need to know which eye is dominant. And while you're shooting, do you block your eye? And I've worked with a lot of players that block their eye, one eye. Well, whichever eye it is, is kind of important, but the bottom line is for depth, distance, three ball shooting. You need both eyes, an optometrist will tell you that. To gauge distance, blocking one eye is hazardous to your accuracy. Another good point. Yeah, this has been a pretty eye opening. Yeah. You guys used to make fun of my shoot and I shot like out this way. Maybe I was trying not to block my eyes. Yeah. didn't block trying to on that. Not with your arm. Not with your arm. It sounds like somebody should write a book about this. Somebody should write a book about this sort of shooting method. That's what I. you wrote, you put this all, is it, so at the end of the day, I got it. So you got a book. Yeah. And it's, where are we in the process though? You've documented this, but yet I have two girls who play in high school still right now. And everything you've said about how they've been coached is how they've still been coached. how has this not gotten further widespread or, or has it, and I'm not aware of it. I, I, that's the question. I can't answer that. I, I keep beating myself up about I've got to be going about it the wrong way. I've got to be my excitement was so much that I left corporate America a little prematurely looking back on it, thinking that when they see what I've done or they watch what it is capable of, the speed of the shot, the other ancillary elements. that enables me to shoot equally as effectively from the right wing as the left wing, which is commonly not the case. Everybody's shoes better on one side than the other. Well, that's connected to a lot of stuff that I've discovered and engineered into this GALO shot making method. GALO stands for, obviously it's my last name, the way of me branding or protecting it, generating or gaining, gee, accuracy. with linear fancy word for a straight line optimization gaining accuracy with linear optimizing. So, and I literally shot my entire basketball life out of a platform that was designed to have me shooting crooked effectively. I know that sounds crazy, but most of your basketball players, Greg, and correct me if I'm wrong. Probably go up to that file line if they're right-handed they try to find that you know It'll be called a lot of things you know that a dot the nail nail that thing whatever it is It's technically a painter's nail, but they'll try to find that and they'll orientate their body according to that nail totally unaware that That basket might have gotten misaligned to begin with relative to the straightness to that nail. Meaning God's dunking on over years, depending on how it's attached. It can tweak just if it tweaks a half of an inch, but from that distance, 13 feet, nine inches to that nail, that half inch becomes two inches, two and a half. So they'll go up there. And I literally watched this live at St. Joe's university game one night. When the visiting team came in and I happened to stop by second half just to catch whatever part of the game I could. And I'm watching the opposing, the opponents come in and while they were going up to that line to find that nail, most of them, most of them went and did almost like a double take to, to, gain some sense of, I in the center? Am I where I'm, it doesn't look right. of a mentality, a demeanor, that kind of behavior, like second guessing. Yeah. I thought, you know, I'm staying to the end of the game. And when this building clears out and the security people are out on the court, I'm going to go, I'm going to ask them if, know, because I'm going to meet Phil Martelli. I'm going to meet Phil Martelli tomorrow. And I want to talk to them about what I've witnessed tonight. And I need to just go down here to this file line and down here to this file line. Are you guys okay with that? That's literally what I did. Do you know what I. Four inches. That was my guesstimate. One story short. Three years later, after I had gone to a couple of assistants the next day to say, Hey, is coach here? I'd like to talk to him about some. Who are you? I'm Roger Gaylow. You don't know me, but I'd like to talk to him about his baskets. They're misaligned. He's not here. What would you let him know that I was here and that I'd like to talk to him about his basket? They shot 67 % from the foul line that season. Oh, wow. Three years later, never got to coach three years later. finally get to coach because I'm showing him this video that I made. took 137, 138 shots. made 135. I shot at LaSalle university with a boxing glove on my hand. Well, that boxing glove, uh, uh, technically speaking, that's a heavy bag boxing glove. So no fingers is curled over. It's not as bulbous, but it's. Uh, it has no, I take away tactile sensation was a shooter. You should know some of the stories guys went to what the lengths they went to, develop tactile sensation. So I filed literally sanded their fingertips. Imagine that because it was so valuable. Shooting now with that. Lipness testing device. That's what it really was to me. And I'm shooting straighter than I've ever shot. I'm shooting with. better rotation and people wrote about my shot than I've ever had with that glove on. Why? Because there's one single contact point, round object against another round object, but one contact point. I eliminated the propensity to do that because it's already curled over. And I've experienced doing that with that glove on. You'll go underneath the net. The point is I meet with Phil Martelli. And he's squirming in a seat. haven't put this glove on because I'm trying to pitch them on how I could improve his shooting from everywhere, especially the foul line. And he's fidgeting in a seat and I go, and I'm showing him this video and he's watching me shoot all these shots, three pointers with this glove on. And he goes, Oh my God. goes, Roger. don't know if you're aware, but this guy, this big donor donated a lot of money. They went through a complete remodel. They ran a laser and they found that the hoops were off four and a half inches. So when I tell you this journey has been eye opening, it's incredibly so much easier to shoot straight and doing it in a way that little kids, little kids when they're at the gym because their brother or sister are playing, but they're too little and they're trying to heave that basketball up to that basket just to keep them busy and out of mom or dad's hair. they're doing things intrinsically or intuitively based on a centered format. Whether they're doing it overhead, which coincidentally was the way we shot back in the fives. Either a chest shot, a chest straight up, or overhead. Where'd that emanate from? Well, straight in front of your eyes. That should be dictating straightness and position of ball, not a right foot. based on a nail that might have your body and you should see the photos or video I take of guys from behind them, me being very centered to the basket and their body position relative to that basket they're trying to shoot a foul shot. And you will see why I said what I did about, I shot my entire life predicated on a shooting crooked mentality. Now it's a lot easier to shoot straight than it is to shoot crooked. And could that play into why somebody is better on one side of the court than the other side of the court? Yeah. Hell yeah. Their body angle dictated by their hips, their knees, their feet position, all that. So it's been quite a journey and I'm glad you asked me about it. I'm sorry about the long winded response, but there's kind of fascinating that make it a lot simpler to become a very effective shooting team. And the further out you are, this was a discovery. Well, I shut up there. No, but why? So I am curious though, like, so you're having success with this. You've written this book. Individually, by the way. Individually. Yeah. How come nobody has finally, I mean, I guess it's a hard thing to change. Yeah. A hundred years of history. Yes, it is. And we know, and I'm trying, I made the mistake of going to the look, I'm in my f****g doing this, right? I don't have a lot of time. If I was in my twenties or th****g days, I would have done the, I'll work with the sixth, seventh, eighth graders. I'll do all these camps and Clint East and I'll grow it from a grassroots perspective. Wait, I was in maybe an questionably an NBA prospect. One, I thought, wow, this is a, this is remarkable. I didn't want this to work. Why? Cause I didn't want to admit I'd been going around about it all wrong for the last. 40 years and I read everybody who were qualified, were titled as professional shooting coaches, putting out books and literature about how we should be doing it. there are, the gap, the gap between the ball and the hand. Oh yeah. You always hear about that. Which gap, which gap is the appropriate gap? I had a gap. tried to create a gap. Did I ever check even on a foul shot? What gap was corrected? Okay. I think I'll make this foul shot. Cause I think I got the right gap this time. Never saw anybody do that. But Dave Hopley just took pictures with Dave Hopley. don't know if any of you know Dave, a shooting coach, big advocate of the gap, big advocate of elbow under elbow under the Herbie McGee, another shooting coach, elbow under when they go to shoe. Guess where elbow isn't under. Now I can show it. I could put that ball, Judy, at a ball in my hand, turn my body and show you elbow under. But when you see him shoot a shot and the camera's rolling, elbow is out. Interesting. Very interesting. All right. So we could talk to you all day about this, but I I want to know who do I watch that is shooting the way that you have taught how to shoot, whether it's in college, NBA, like who am I watching now to see this difference? Yeah. You'd have to watch, uh, kids that you wouldn't even know the names of. But they've been trained by me fully trained in the NBA, for example. And I thought, wow, this is, sounds like a sales pitch, but it's a reality. Cause I've looked at different players and I'm thinking, well, know, Steph Curry has probably 10, 10%, maybe 12 % of this up system. He did has probably seven or 8%. And I'm really trying to think about the percentages. That's not very much. Well, not very much. Thompson has a percentage of it on select shots, meaning maybe on a catching shoot. He has a higher percentage of it than he does off of a dribble. Well, somebody else off of a dribble has a percentage of it. The bearded one, left handed. Harden. Harden. James Harden. He has a, got probably 5 % of it. Okay. Now don't know what those ought to add up to, but I'm going to, I'm going to pick a number. 29%. Well, what if I took that 29 % and they, that one player had all of those elements of those guys. Would they be pretty good shooter? You'd like to think, yeah, if you could collectively get all these guys together and become a robo, like a robo shooter, a robo robotic life and do the other 70 % that they don't know from the waist down or the conflict from right, right upper quadrant to left upper quadrant. that's taking place in every one of those guys today that they don't realize they aren't aware of how it affects. didn't know my left foot affected my right hand release. How important is that? It's the furthest part away from this up here. That can't be that important. It's hugely important. It's so important that it convinced me I was onto something when I questioned the effectiveness of the step back. And I got a chance to sit with the Noah people in Vegas two seasons ago. I was actually there and the agent invited me to join. And I thought, oh, wow. I get a chance to ask them about the step back. Cause my gut, my observations were telling me as, as easy a shot as that is because you create all this space. I'm wondering how effective, how many guys are really knocking it down because when they show highlights, they are showing. Greg Hurley, Greg, I want to call you keep calling you her Greg Curley or Thomas Frank or anybody missing them. They're showing the guys making them. I asked a question of the people that know what the machine, I don't know if you guys are aware of it, but now they've got the entry angle, the most optimal entry angle, the exit angle, the facial recognition. is sophisticated beyond your imagination. got all this stuff and, they're, they're telling me that. I said, Hey, what's the NBA think about the, um, the step back. They hate it. Wait, well, that's pretty, that's pretty quick. And that's adamant the way you said what, and I'm thinking that loudly. It was rhetorical, but he answered, go, why? No, I'm thinking. I still make them. I'm thinking that I've been thinking that for five years. He goes, guys don't make them. Now I think I know why. Well, no, I really, I believe wholeheartedly I know why, but that's what led me to question whether or not guys were making them. Their body, half their body is going opposite direction. The body they're trying to, and there's no adjustment apparently being made based on my observations that are pretty good at studying motion or movements. Well, that's what shot making is all about. Movements, timing. simplicity of movements, reduction of movements, if you can do that. And that's what I've become pretty good at. But that, that was a, Oh my God. Now why me? I don't know. But so how now you're the book just came out, right? It just, it just hit stores, right? So maybe this is the start of all this, right? Hopefully we can help. hoping that that opens up. It's a thought, Greg, thank you for getting that out there. It's an attempt. And I was pressed by my, and I got a great publisher is the leader in sports publishing triumph books. And I was flattered to have them do it. And they're pressing me on the deadline. And I'm thinking, geez, it was supposed to be a thought provoking book questioning. What was that the best way to do it? Or was it just the most commonly used way and became popular to do it that way. So we bought into it and we've never wandered. We've never questioned it. Like I never questioned my shot. Why would I question my shot? People were commending me about it. So that was what the book started as thought provoking. Could there be a categorically more effective way to shoot? And I'm here to say, yeah. And throughout the book, I'm trying to suggest that there is. And by the way, it wasn't going to ever become an instructional book, but as I got deeper and deeper into it, I was starting to feel as though I really, cause I'm not going to write another one. I'd like to, I'd like it to become an instructional book, I don't have the time. I'm risking blowing up the contract and you know, that God knows how that could end. So I opted to just dropping gems throughout the book about which, what, part of your hand do you think you should release the ball to add to your probabilities of making that shot? And gaining control or gaining a straighter path to the basket from your hand and arm area. Yeah. Just stuff like that. You know, you know, I got a triple threat, triple threat, maneuver, triple threat. I've created my own triple threat maneuver. No one has changed the triple threat. We're still taught the triple threat. My threat, my triple threat. And I hate to say it, my triple threat sounds crazy, but there's a way to be a bigger threat. especially if you're undersized. And it's not the triple threat we all know. It's my version of a triple threat. And it means you can dribble left or right. You can shoot whenever you can. You can pass left or right. When you're a triple threat player, aren't you dominantly on one side? Well, that, that offers some advantages, doesn't it? It sounds like. Yeah, it definitely does. It enables me to shoot against NBA level big guys looking like me. That's pretty crazy. this has been fascinating. All right. So you got to give everybody where they can get this book now. Tell them where they can get it, how they can get ahold of you because you know, we got the biggest audience in the world right here. So we're, we're going to get people, we're going to get people shooting a whole different way. Well, I'm proud to say it's now available at bookstores like Barnes and Noble. It's available through online, all the books, any book, any bookstore you can go to should be able to, get that habit or gain access to it. And it can be ordered online through Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Target, any bookstore you'd care to, to, support. And, and that was probably one of the hardest things, things I've ever undertaken. That was good. Do you wish you would have paid a little more attention in the writing composition courses at Juniata, if you knew you were going to write a book or what? know, Craig, you have no idea how much more attention I would have paid. the truth be told, and I know a lot of people are fully aware of the sciences that exist, the strength of that program at Juniata. And I wished I had taken a much deeper interest in physics. Geometry and math plays a big role in increasing the probability of making a shot. Geometry and math. If somebody has said that in my classroom, man, would have stood up and wait, it's connected. By the way, did a STEM based, it was an elementary school, a STEM based shooting demonstration and gave them a couple of projects or homework assignments or challenges that the teachers loved and thought it was a big hit. But it's because it has the science, the technology. the engineering, all those elements of STEM. That is, I've tried to prove science wrong, man. No, I'm not that brilliant. Wow. Well, Roger, thank you. And for everybody listening, you got to go check it out. The Pursuit of the Perfect Shot by Robert Gaylow. Everywhere. It's everywhere. I want to give this a shot. I might be out in the front yard. Get it for the girls, Thomas. Hey, I might be ready by the time we have our alumni weekend game. Oh. Yeah. Maybe I'll be out there shooting this time. Yeah, maybe not. I showed up one of those years ago, the alumni game. Well, if you get back, I don't know if you've been paying attention, but I'm team blue. This is team gold. We like to go at it a little bit. I bet you do. Yes. And I'm, looking forward to our next matchup. Yeah. And Greg was a defender, right Greg? Yeah, that was my, I'm still, I got that identity, but I'll tell you what. These two knuckleheads just draft teams and coach. So they bring our guys and they brought that. I got to, your enthusiasm for this and your perspective and the ability to kind of take something that's traditional, look at it differently. It's, you know, it's refreshing. It's really, really neat. I mean, it's great to see your passion and the opportunity to be a part. I appreciate you sharing it with us. it's really cool. mean, just your ability to communicate, know, like the liberal arts education and the kind of the backings of a Juniata, you can see it through there. And we're glad and excited to be that platform to go from, you know, like you said, a corporate world for 20 years to doing this, like who would have thought that, right? And to see her booking on Billboard, it's really pretty, pretty amazing. And it should be an inspiration. Now, right now the guys on our team are listening and they're got like you, I need the green light. I got to shoot all the time. Let's like make sure they hear the positive. The book first until the books read. the positives are going to pay more attention when they're in their English courses and their writing courses. They know they might need it somewhat. So it's come full circle to the academic moment. I love it. Very well stated, Matt. You're right. You are spot on Greg. That's why you're a good coach, man. What's most winning this coach in the history of the program? All time winning as coach and junior out of history. We're worried about this next year. We're just going to keep going and see what we can do next. So I mean, the enthusiasm you have, hopefully we still have it for what we're doing and trying to look at all those kinds of things. it's really, again, just really cool to hear. I think the STEM program for elementary kids, there's another avenue. My gosh, you can get that to science teachers everywhere. How cool would that be to connect that for kids? And congratulations, all. This is really, really neat. you. Thank you for coming in to spending this time with us. It's been, it's been fantastic. I'm glad I could finally reconnect with Juniata through this. Good. Absolutely. And I can tell you, Juniata is proud of you and doing this because it's been spread across campus when the book came out and did all those kinds of things. And, you know, I heard, hear the stories of you playing, but to have it so current and to have it out there and now the pride people have that. You know, you have a book coming out and that you're really changing, like an industry, you're a forerunner and then, you know, your thought provocation to get people to think differently about something that's been there forever is really, really neat. you, Greg. And that's gratifying. I appreciate that. Very gratifying. And yeah, it all happened. It all started with that, my courses at Junietta. And they urged us as freshmen to think outside the box a little bit. And I carried that, boy, did I carry that. to another level. Yeah. Yeah, that's great. So yeah, I loved every minute of it. Thank you. Thank you, sir. And listeners, that is Robert Gaylowe. Go get this book, A Pursuit. Roger, what did I just say? Roger. Roger. I'm so enthralled with this. Roger Gaylowe, thank you. The Pursuit of the Perfect Shot. Thank you guys. All right, fellas. Follow the show on Instagram at Juniata Basketball Show. Subscribe to the Juniata Men's Basketball Show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Leave us a rating on Apple and spread the word Juniata Nation. I'm Tom Frank. I'm Boz. I'm the head coach, Greg Curl. Bada boom. Thank you. That was really, really interesting. Yes.