The Indispensable Marketer
Become the marketer your CEO can't run the business without.
You bring the CEO a plan. The numbers aren't bad. You're still explaining yourself instead of leading.
That's the Trust Gap. The work comes back wrong, results stall, and neither of you can say why. It's why talented marketers get treated like a vending machine instead of the architect of growth.
The Indispensable Marketer is hosted by Disruptive Advertising for marketing leaders at $3M-$50M scale-ups done managing perception and ready to build real authority. Every episode runs on VSET: Vision, Strategy, Execution, Team, the framework behind the Indispensable Marketer book and Assessment. Closing the Trust Gap is a skill you can learn, prove, and measure.
Some weeks it's a solo teaching on extracting real Vision. Other weeks it's a conversation with a leader who closed their own Trust Gap and can tell you what it cost.
We turn away most prospective clients and 96% of marketers who apply. Selectivity protects the standard.
If you've wondered whether you're the right person for the job, start here.
The Indispensable Marketer
We Walked Away From a $1 Million Client
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
FREE: the tools and templates to become an indispensable marketer: indispensablemarketer.com/free/
Disruptive walked away from a client paying over $1 million a year in management
fees. At the time, that contract was the majority of the company's profitability.
If you've ever needed a shower after writing ad copy, this episode is for you.
Jacob walks through the account, the months spent trying to fix it, and the
strategist who closed his office door and said it still wasn't working. Then Chad
turns it into the part you can use: how a marketing leader gets a CEO's values
into the open, why the CEO's personal values and the company's core values are
two different lists, and the single test that separates a real value from a
preference. This is the Vision pillar of VSET.
--------------------------------------------
CHAPTERS
0:00 The $1 million client we walked away from
1:28 Before you invoke your values, ask how you're contributing to the problem
1:59 The strategist who closed the door
3:29 Values aren't values until they cost you something
5:23 The two questions that surface a CEO's values and their anti-values
7:38 The exercise to run with your leadership team
8:43 The hire-or-fire test that separates a value from a preference
10:45 Why Chad chose to work for a CEO who isn't easy to work with
--------------------------------------------
WHO'S TALKING
Jacob Baadsgaard is the founder and CEO of Disruptive Advertising and the author
of The Indispensable Marketer. He's sat on both sides of this table: marketing
director at a public company, and now the CEO asking marketing for a number.
Chad de Lisle has been in marketing for nearly twenty years, half of that at
Disruptive working directly with Jacob. He's worked at companies where the values
were words on a wall, and he'll tell you the difference.
--------------------------------------------
ABOUT THE SHOW
The Indispensable Marketer is Disruptive Advertising's podcast. We're a
performance marketing agency, and our mission is to connect great marketers with
the brands they believe in. The goal of this show is simpler than that: we want
marketing leaders to win. Not just hit the number, but earn the trust and the
seat that comes with it.
For anyone who has no reason to trust us yet, some things you can check:
We've managed marketing for more than 2,000 client accounts.
When we studied those accounts, we found that on average 76% of ad budget had no
attributable revenue impact. Not low impact. No impact. That's the problem we
exist to solve.
We reject 96% of applicants, because the wrong person in the wrong seat costs
everyone.
We publish around 8 videos a month. We want these to be the episodes you forward
to your CEO or drop in your team's channel, because you're both better on the
other side of it.
--------------------------------------------
FREE RESOURCES: indispensablemarketer.com/free/Disruptive Advertising: https://disruptiveadvertising.com/The Indispensable Marketer (book): https://www.indispensablemarketer.com/book/Connect with Jacob on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jakebaadsgaard/ Connect with Chad on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chad-de-lisle/
We walked away from a $1 million client because working with them conflicted with our core values. As a marketing leader, we have all felt the ick of working on a client or on a product that we didn't really believe in or feel aligned to. It's that feeling of, ooh, I need to take a shower after writing this ad copy or I don't feel good or proud of the work that I'm doing. I feel like maybe I'm part of the problem. If you have felt that way, we're going to dig into how you can actually approach the values conversation with yourself and with your CEO. And we're going to do that today on this episode. Jacob, take us back to the moment when one of your strategists walked in and said, I've got the ick from working on this account. I don't feel good about it. Tell us what happened.
SPEAKER_01They were over a million dollars a year in management fees for the agency. And they had gone through multiple teams and multiple iterations of working with them. They left, they came back, they worked with multiple teams. And on multiple occasions, the team came and just said, this isn't working. Like they're asking us to run reports at like at night that they don't even use the next day. And it's like chaotic, it's stressful. It doesn't feel like they actually care about us and or even have like the room to do good work for them. So, you know, we batted that around for a little while. Okay, let's make some team changes, let's have some, you know, truth conversations with them to really set some boundaries and hold those boundaries. And we spent a few months really trying to figure out a way to make it work. Because I think when it comes to values, you don't just use it as a way to shut people down. I think we need to show up and get uncomfortable and say, hey, how are we contributing to the problem that's going on here? Have we established clear enough boundaries? Are we holding to those boundaries? Are we doing, are we doing what we can do in alignment with our values to make the relationship great? And so the first thing we did is we gave it a good go to try and make it work and show up assuming that we're contributing to this problem as well. Well, after another team change, one of our top strategists came in and you know, walked into my office and closed the door. And I'm like, this either means you're quitting or you're about to cry, or this is gonna be like, okay, like a gear up for this conversation. And it just came down to even when we hold this client to the standards that we've all agreed to, it's still not feeling great. We don't feel aligned with them, like the humanity of what's going on here. And I said, hey, if we've done everything that we need to do and it's not aligned with who we are, to see and activate greatness, to pair our indispensable marketers with brands they actually believe working in, and we've and we've exhausted our efforts to realize this is just what it is, then make the call. We don't have to work with them. And uh that meant us walking away from an over a million dollar contract. And at the time, that represented the majority of our profitability as a business. And so I think for them and for me and their team to realize we will hold these values even when it legitimately costs us our profitability as a business. And we'll figure out what's on the other side because to live incongruent with our values isn't worth it. Um, so that doesn't mean we didn't try for a while to make it work, but we eventually landed in the place where it's like, no, this is not, this is not a win. We need to make that change. And I got a slack from someone on that team. I never would have thought I'd work at a place where we would walk away from a contract that large when it's not aligned with who we are and where we want to go as a business. And it was a good reminder for me that values aren't values until you're willing to actually pay a price for them. Otherwise, they're just preferences. And we prefer to work with clients we believe in. We'll lose a million-dollar contract if we're not aligned with a client that we want to work with. That's very different between a preference and a value. And getting those clear and understood at the business level matters because it's what helps you understand the tone and what you can market.
SPEAKER_00Well, and it's it's amazing that you share that too, because there's so many times I've worked at a place that the values were just words on a wall. Yeah. And I could even see conflict internally with how we were doing things as a business that were in misalignment with those values. But it didn't really raise any flags for me at the time because it's not, you know, I had never worked, I felt like at a place where values actually drove behavior, right? But, you know, coming back to what you said, as a marketing leader, understanding the values, they can start to become a differentiator. They are actually a part of how you approach the marketplace and use that in your marketing materials and how you're, you know, putting messages out there about the company. It can be really powerful. Okay, so this is another conversation where the marketing leader needs to go in and start to extract this if it's not clear already in your company. You know, what are the practical tips that we would give to a marketing leader on how to have this conversation with the CEO to get clear on what the core values are?
SPEAKER_01I think that there are two things that a marketer needs to understand. I think you need to understand your CEO's personal values. And then I think you also need to get really clear about what are the company core values. Because at the company level, these should legitimately be things that you'll hire or fire based on, where understanding your CEO's personal values actually helps you understand how to engage and work with them. Okay. And so one of the simple ways that I like to approach this to make the conversation less scary and maybe a little more fun and engaging is tell me about someone, alive or dead or even fictional, that inspires you. And what about them inspires you? And they might give you some examples of people from books that they loved or movies or business leaders or humanitarian leaders or whatever that might be. And they're going to start listing the attributes about that person. Like, this is why they inspire me. And what you're getting is a list of values from them. Because they don't even actually know if that's they're describing the real version of that person. They're just describing the part of that person that they connect with from their perception. And so I often look at characters of like that went on their adventure, that did the hard thing, even when it cost them something, like all of those types of things. And so I'll give you some characters. And then the second question is tell me about some people alive or dead or fictional or whatever, that you actually just really don't like. You might even despise them a little bit if you're being honest. And tell me what about them it is that you don't respect or appreciate or value. And then they're going to give you a list of their anti-values. And this is a little bit more getting to know the CEO to say, like, oh, I understand that you really care about, like, if I'm never taking risk and I'm working with Jake to move things forward, that that's going to run into a conflict with him. Okay. If I'm playing it safe all the time and he's got to come in and like move me forward all the time. You might discover, hey, if it's not feeling fun along the way and it's just like growth at all costs and at the expense of your people or whatever, like that offends me. Well, it's like, okay, well, if it's not feeling fun, Jake's not going to be super engaged with this either. Because for me, some of my adventure and fun and progress and all of those things really matter to me individually. And so when you ask them these types of questions, you help them understand their own values and where they're in conflict or where they're in alignment within the business. But again, this is what makes you an indispensable marketer. They might start connecting dots and saying, I'm not showing up this way in my marriage. I'm not showing up this way with my friends or my kids or whatever that might be.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think that you owe it to yourself to get to do the same exercise as a marketing leader. Go and think of your, you know, person or character, alive or dead, and say, okay, what is it that inspires me about them? And get clear for yourself. I also think, and we've talked about this before, but another practical tip is just to sit with the team, the leadership team, and say, who in the company do we feel like is uh like we would call it disruptive DNA or something like that. You know, who do we feel like exemplifies what we're looking for in an employee, a team member, a leader, et cetera, and start to list out their attributes. And I think you'll find pretty quick making a quick list of people in the company, you'll go, oh, these are who we are. This is the core values. These are the things that we should be hiring and firing and promoting based on. You know, these are the these are the types of uh people we want to attract and and add to our team.
SPEAKER_01Well, what I love that you're differentiating there is the first questions helped you understand the CEO on a more personal level and how to better work with them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What you've just described is now what are the values collectively we can all hold each other accountable to?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And so our company core values are not the same as my personal list of core values. But when we say, would we hire or fire someone based on some of these cultural preferences? Which is we have our caring committee and we like to do it. Are you caring enough? No, that feels weird to like hold someone accountable to that. But proactive is one of ours. Would you hire or fire someone based on their level of proactivity in the role? The answer is we absolutely do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right. And so this is where again you can kind of understand, okay, I understand the CEO and their personal values and how that is going to show up in the culture of the business, but I'm not necessarily holding my team accountable to the CEO's core values. Sure. But now we've gone through the exercise as an executive team to say, now let's talk about what are the attributes and values that when they show up in our best performers that are common and that we can hold each other accountable to, just like you could hold me, the CEO, accountable, and I could hold you accountable as the head of marketing. And that's where you really start to clarify, and that's why I think it's two layers understand the CEO and understand the business. And that actually is what allows you to not just have them be words on a wall, but things that actually guide behaviors in the business. And when we're true to those behaviors, lead to better performance. And that is the kicker. If we live these core values, does performance go up over time? Sometimes it costs you revenue temporarily, like we already discussed, but over time it should actually lead to better performance, not worse.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And and I again I'll add that third layer in, which is your own values, you know. So know the company's values, know the CEO's values, know your own values.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because in the harmony that you find there is if you know you're in the right spot, right? It's how you know you're, you know, doing the work that is actually aligned with who you are and is going to be rewarding for you versus the ick and the, you know, can't sleep at night and all those kinds of things.
SPEAKER_01I I think that's powerful when you say it that way, Chad, because so often the marketer gets so focused on the company's values or the CEO's values. You got to come back and do that for yourself.
SPEAKER_00So I love that reminder. For sure. And and it's uh it can be easy to just be focused on external, right? And not looking at it. But I promise you, taking the time to get clear on yourself is gonna be so important in this exercise because you will save yourself a lot of heartache later, you know, if if you are still moving forward in an unaligned environment.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So, Chad, as we've explored my values, your values, and the company's values, I think we've both gotten clear that Jake will always be pushing for progress, momentum, speed, those types of things. Like, I'm not necessarily easy to work with. How have you decided whether or not you're in alignment in working with me and the values for the company?
SPEAKER_00Well, I think that for me, I want to be pushed. And I also recognize that I need to be pushed. I can tend to be still waters in some in some ways. And so I often look for, and if you look at the the major people in my life, my wife and friends I choose, and and even you, the employer and the job that I decide to be in, I've put myself in environments where I know I'm gonna be forced to grow and and moved. And so I really value that. And that's something that I have often looked for is I don't want to be in a place that is without challenge. I've decided I want challenge. That's something that feels aligned with my values. And so it ends up working really well for me to work with somebody who is gonna push and is gonna drive and is gonna create that for me. Yeah, even when it's uncomfortable, even and especially when it's uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, and I love what that you've just said is you're conscious and aware of it and choosing it. Yes. A hundred. And what we've been talking about today is this is how you get clear and then choose. Yeah. And that's where the power comes from, versus being unclear and defaulting into what is, which there's no power in that. But I love how you've clarified what you value and the environment you want to be in, and how I can help provide that for you, even when it's uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_00Marketing leaders, when you have clarity on your core values and the core values of the company that you work with, it allows you to choose to stay or to choose to go if that feels more aligned with you. But it also gives you the practical language that you need to start positioning the brand both internally and externally with your marketing. You will be amazed at the energy that having this core value clarity infuses into your marketing and into the team that executes your marketing. It's critical. Next episode, we will be talking about turning down 80% of your customers and the volume trap that is killing most marketing departments.