The Official ArtPrize Podcast S1 E1 Richard App

Richard App has been involved with every ArtPrize since it began. 
He was part of the team that brought us Nessie, a gallery owner, a fine art photographer and a retail retention specialist for the City of Grand Rapids. 

Today he sits on the ArtPrize steering committee. You could search form Kentwood to Rockford and not find anyone as passionate about the success of ArtPrize and you'll find no one who cares more about Grand Rapids. 

This conversation could have gone on forever except Richard is always busy.

I am grateful that he was able to take the time to chat and I am honored to call him a friend. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to the official Art Prize Podcast, a limited series going behind the scenes of Grand Rapids Premier Art Competition. I'm your host, Steve Kelso. I'm a former Art Prize reporter for Wood TVA, a former Art Prize artist, and the owner of Kelso Communications, a proud Art Prize sponsor. In this series, I'm talking with the artists, the organizers, and the decision makers shaping Art Prize 16. It is another episode of the official Art Prize podcast, and joining me today is Richard App. Richard, you have been involved with Art Prize almost since the get-go, really. Tell me about your role then, your role now.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Well, um, when they first announced Art Prize, it was in the former UICA building on Sheldon. And at that time, I was the president of the Grand Rapids Gallery Association. I had a gallery over on Cherry Street. And um when they made the announcement for Art Prize, I was there with a another friend of mine. And the second that they announced this crazy uh venture that we've been doing now since 2009, um, I walked outside and I called one of my friends and I said, we need to build NASI, the Loch Ness monster that was in the river that year. Um, what's kind of fun about that is there are um some friends of mine, we call ourselves AAG Airline Aluminum Group. Really means nothing, but it is something. And uh we had talked about like building a Loch Ness monster, the uh the black and white photo, the one you see in your mind's eye from like their like the early 20s. And um so and we were actually thinking about putting it in Reeds Lake the night before the Reeds Lake triathlon. Just some kind of naughty thing. Yeah, and it was a it was a moonless night, so we could pull it out there, and you figure this is September, there'll be a little fog on the water, and there's a Loch Mess Monster a couple hundred yards out in the water. And so instead, we focused our attention on the Grand River and where we put it, you know, right there on the blue bridge. We actually used the blue bridge as part of the inspiration. The color of the of Nessie was the same color as the uh stones that were on the side of the building or on the side of the bridge. Um the way we cut the neck was the same way, and it was one of those things where we didn't know if this was gonna be, you know, a good thing, bad thing, or indifferent because we really weren't paying attention to it from a media standpoint. We just wanted to do something kind of cool, and um it's kind of like when you're a little kid and you draw on the wall, it's fun, but it's a little naughty. Putting something in the Grand River was kind of in that same vein. So um, you know, I have from there I've I've been uh curator for several parks, Anabwan Park, the Blue Bridge, the Gillette Bridge, um Calder Plaza, um the Sixth Street uh Sixth Street Park, Canal Street Park, and uh a bunch of other things. I really love doing the outdoor venues. I also did a pretty large installation in the city water building. We had about 20,000 square feet there where we had a bunch of different artists and then um also City Hall. So I've been doing a lot of that, and then for the last half a dozen years, I've been doing economic development for the city, and I get to see how Art Prize works for the businesses. And that to me was something that I hadn't considered as much. Uh, there was a business owner who now moved to California, but what she used to say about Art Prize was it was essentially the 13-month, 13th month for her retail business.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

Oh, I can see that.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

And so the amount of money that she brought in would actually pay her rent for the year.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

In that way, in that span, that one month span.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

Yeah. And then if you look at this past year, Art Prize left an $82.6 million positive economic impact on the city.

SPEAKER_01 3:53

Yeah, with almost a million people coming through town.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

Yeah, 970, 975,000 people, you know, very in a 16-day concentrated space. And so um I see it from all angles, but I I I appreciate it from all angles too.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

I remember that first year I was working at Channel 8, and the first year that it was down here, the restaurants were running out of food. Oh, yeah. They had no idea what to expect. They were calling their suppliers. Their suppliers couldn't get them food fast enough, and the whole town was just exploding. And it see it it continued from there.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

I think, yeah. And I mean, regardless of who the art, where the art is, who the artists are, there is a certain energy that we get from Art Prize. It didn't happen during Festival of the Arts, doesn't happen through some of the cultural festivals we have, but we have it because I mean, I think this year we have over 150 view uh uh venues with over a thousand artists. Yeah. And it's, I mean, if you are one of those people that is brave and crazy enough to go and check out every venue and check out every artist, God bless you for it. But what we've done, I think, expanding the footprint into Creston, into Uptown, um, has really kind of helped spread that out because uh when you think about like the uptown area where Wealthy Street, East Town, East Hills, East Fulton, um, I was with a a delegation from Louisville last year. And we I had taken them to a few different places. And they said, you know, one of the persons, the people that was there actually purchased some work from me when I was in the water building. And he said, you know, and all the times I've been to Grand Rapids, I've never been to East Town. And he said, What would you what do you think about that? And I said, You know, honestly, I said, if you haven't been to East Town, you probably haven't seen Grand Rapids in its most authentic form. I mean, uh, you know, there's four business owner businesses over there that are either celebrating 50 years or have been open over 50 years that have been kind of you know landmarks for our city. And so, like to have them part of that is really cool to me.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

How have you seen this city's reaction to art prize change over the years?

SPEAKER_00 6:06

Well, I think the first year, I don't think the first year there were a lot of artists from Grand Rapids that um took a little offense to what art prize was because there was this purist nature where oh, they're bringing these things in. And, you know, I went, you know, went to graduate school for photography. And my uh my other friends that I went to Kendall with all had uh we had either fine art degrees or furniture design or illustration degrees. Um and so there were a lot of people that thought, you know, why would these guys be building a Loch Ness monster?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Um and calling it ours. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:42

Well, and it's because it kind of was. And I mean, in earlier that year, this same group of guys that I worked with uh that we worked together on, we built a Viking ship and burned it um for a birthday party. I was born in Iceland, one of my buddies was born in Norway. When we found out we had the same birthday, we said, why don't we uh have a Viking party? Let's have Viking food, let's, you know, have Viking drinks, and then let's build a ship. And then at the same time, we said, let's burn it. You know, and you think about, you know, with art, you know, it's like one of those things where when uh you know, when Vikings would get to a new land, they'd burn their ships to say we're staying. And so that was kind of the whole idea behind that is like, you know, we're part of this. And um, you know, nobody objected to that, but I think they objected to the art part because, you know, there's always going to be a level of contention with art prize, because with a thousand artists, there's only about a dozen or maybe 15 awards that are given, like monetary awards that are given out. So the odds are that your favorite piece is probably not going to be picked. And you know, that's okay. I I like that there's a juried vote, and I like that there's a popular vote. Um, the popular vote to me is important because I am an art historian, and the person that's voting next to me may not know anything about art, but we still have the same opinions. I mean, you know what you like. I can't, I can influence you and tell you about different eras of art, but I can't tell you what you like.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

If I were to ask a hundred people what is art, I'm gonna get a hundred different answers.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

That's probably true.

SPEAKER_01 8:18

As we look through the history of art prize, do you think what that juried award makes it so cool because now I have a stake in in who wins this thing, regardless of my lack of art education, that it is more based on what I like. And what I like is just fine. That that tension should exist in art. As you look at what it's done to the culture of Grand Rapids, has it made us better patrons?

SPEAKER_00 8:47

I don't know if that is the truth. I I mean, I would say that we are um we have the luxury of having something really cool in our city. Um I think that education is still something that Artprize needs to lean into more. I do think that this year, incorporating our uh our ballet and our symphony and having a fashion show and a few other things is going to widen the base. I mean, from a cultural standpoint, we have an opera, we have a symphony, we have a ballet, we have all of these things here in our in our city, and not a lot of cities our size can boast that they've got those things. Uh we've got a world-class museum. I mean, we have some of the best public sculpture, you know, really in the country. I mean, uh, La Grande Vitesse came here in 1969. And the National Endowment of the Arts, that was the largest piece of art uh work that was actually brought into, I mean, from from a financial standpoint. I mean, there was $250,000 57 years ago that that was brought to the city.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Right. And the first piece of public art that the National Endowment of Arts placed anywhere in the United States. Sure. And that's uh that kind of sets us up, right? Because then Grand Rampage now has this history uh going back to festival. We went through all of that and then unfortunately is gone now. But I do is there an art prize without festival? Do we even get to that point without I would say no.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

I would say absolutely not. I mean, you think about, you know, we quietly have these pieces of artwork in our city that I don't think people realize the significance of. I think the ellipse that Maya Lynn did on uh Rosa Park Circle is a very it's it's a very well-placed and well thought out piece across the street from that. The last um, you know, love sculpture that Robert Indiana installed prior to his passing is here in the city. I mean, uh the De Suervo swing, you know, the split ring over here. We have we've got, and then you you think about Meyer Garden. I mean, Meyer Garden is one of the top 100 uh venues, like most visited venues in the world. That's a huge statement to have in our city. And I mean, my uh I have a sister, I have a actually several, several of my siblings live in Chicago, but my sister makes a point of coming up here during uh, you know, a couple times a year to go to uh um to go to Minor Garden. I mean, that light exhibit that they did last winter was phenomenal. And so I think we have these things, but we haven't maybe done enough research on them to figure out what that is. I I think you remember a few years ago I cured curated uh Calder Plaza, and uh a friend of mine, David Dotti, who's a very well-known artist and incredible creative, put uh Michigan uh wildflower flowers on the Calder. I remember and he used them with magnets. And um the thing that I the the little nefarious thing about for me was that there are two things that I saw was number one, when Calder gave that piece to the city of Grand Rapids for $250,000, he gave it with no restrictions. That's why it's on our garbage cans and our manhole covers and our street signs. Um it's even the logo of art prize turned on its side. Right. Um, but I think what one of the things I wanted to remind people was is that was actually that's actually a piece of art. It's not just the logo of our city. And uh I have family ties with Calder. Um, my grandfather was his attorney, bailed him out of jail. And one of the reasons he bailed him out of jail was well, twice. He bailed him out of jail once for posing as a musician on the Queen Mary. If you were a musician and you were taking doing that transatlantic uh uh float, you know, you got your room and board free. He got to Europe no problem. On the way back, they found out his violin case was full of uh wires that he had used for the flying circuits that was in uh ArtPress. So I was like, this is kind of a hat tip to Calder. He the second time he built him out of jail, he put mobiles and stables on top of sculptures in Central Park. But he used cement because there weren't magnets at that time. We went with the idea that this is gonna be there. And what's funny is I talked to David about this when they asked me if I would curate the uh Calder Plaza, and I said, here's the deal people are either gonna love you or they're gonna hate you. Um the people are gonna love you aren't are gonna love you forever. The people are gonna hate you aren't even gonna know why they don't like you. They're just gonna know that they feel violated. But the idea is let's show people like this piece of work. And you know, David does screen printing, he's exquisite in it. And um, so he took a 2D, he took a 3D sculpture and made it into a 2D piece, which I thought was you know phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

For those who don't remember, the Calder Foundation called the city and demanded that those be taken down. David called himself, I was a reporter at Channel 8, and in a story that I did, he called himself, he said, I am the criminal who put this on there, which was all tongue-in-cheek, right? Uh George Hartwell, the mayor at the time, took uh took some some flag for it and took and took the I it's my fault, I shouldn't have let that happen. And it rose some irk and iron, and the people at Art Prize didn't seem to care. They seemed to really embrace that controversy that maybe that is kind of what art is about. That that's uh that's the they wanted to start a conversation, and you can't argue that they didn't.

SPEAKER_00 14:33

Well, I think disruption is part of that. You know, you we hear it in music, we hear it, we we we read it in literature. Things that are a little against the grain are the things that you're going to they're gonna catch you the most. And um, when David and I first started talking about this, I said, the one thing we should not we should do purposely is unless somebody asks, why did you do that? Don't answer, don't, don't answer the question for them. And nobody did. And what's interesting is I have a friend who was a uh an anchor for one of the other channels. Um, and we talked about this years later. And he said, I and I said, and and he and he and I had even talked about it during our prize, like on camera. And he said, Why did that happen? And I told him, I said, we did it as a hat tip to Calder. And I said, I said, but if I told you that, it would take the bite out of it. But if you asked the question, I could have answered that.

unknown 15:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

And he was like, wow. Right. And I mean, and I had uh between David and I, I'd probably say we did 50 interviews, and you know, the I just so the record is clear, I contacted the Calder Foundation and said what I was going to do. I talked about my relationship with Calder, or my family relationship with Calder, I should say. I told him about what we were gonna do, that it was temporary, that it wasn't gonna hurt the work. And if anything, it was going to elevate uh a great conversation about the most significant piece of public art that we have in our city.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

And it did do that. Yeah, it did. It did do that. There's no two ways about it. Over the years, um I hear this sentiment around town from time to time, and especially since the pandemic, which was not a good thing for our prize or anyone really. Um I hear people saying, uh, one person said to me the other day, art prize. Are they they still even do that? I've heard people say, well, is that this year, or they're doing that every other year? And I hear this real common, what I think is a misconception out there, that art prizes jump the shark, that it just isn't what it once was. Your reaction to that, and what do we have to do to get on track to be what it was? Can it even be that?

SPEAKER_00 16:43

Well, we had almost a million people come last year. It left over $80 million in our city. We had people we had people from, I think, 40 different countries and 38 different states that came as artists to this. Uh I when I think about what people say, you know what, it's not like it used to be. Well, nothing is. You know, you go to the Grand Canyon once and it's awesome. And it's a, I mean, that's a word that we overuse. Right. Um, but you go back the second time, it might not be the same thing. The reality is, if you were to say over the uh, let's call it 14 years of art prize, because there was the uh Project X and then there was one year that it was canceled. So in the 14, 15 years, um, 15,000 pieces of art have come to Grand Rapids as a result of Art Prize. Wow. We are a little desensitized, I believe, because of that. And so um that's that's just a way of that's a way of do of persp of uh some perspective. Um the first year there were also a couple of large scale pieces, the table and chairs that was on the blue bridge, Nessie being one of those. Um and you know, you think about those kinds of pieces, but the reality is if I'm from Salt Lake City and I'm doing a 25-foot sculpture, um, I can tell you that that flatbed truck coming from Salt Lake City to Grand Rapids there and back, you know, has got to be 10 grand. Oh, easy. You know, and I'm just throwing out small numbers. Right, I would think, yeah. So it becomes a it becomes difficult to be able to do those things. Now, Art Prize has given out some scholarship cash to bring artists in to do something. The numbers aren't that big, but I feel like we need to uh we should be able to embrace those pieces and say, yes, this is where they are. I think um, you know, I've helped uh I've put two pieces in the river for Art Prize as an artist. I've helped curate maybe four or five other ones in the river. I would I know that this year is an exception and the next couple of years will be because we're, you know, bringing the rapids back to our city, which I think is phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

All the building on the fort in Nabawan Park there, that's that's traditionally been a space where people exhibit.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Oh yeah. And I mean, I have been a part of I curated an Abuan park with uh a piece that won won its uh installation piece that was awesome. And I think I mean uh and it's a great park for us, but it but we also know that the city's evolving, and in three, four years from now, the river's gonna change. Anabuan will change, the museum's changing as we speak. So I mean, it's uh I I think what we have to do is not realize that you know, when people say, you know, it's kind of like uh I'm a big Stones fan. Uh they just had a podcast that was out yesterday where uh, you know, Mick, Keith, and Ronnie Wood were all on there and they were talking about music. And it's like, you know, to say that you you don't like, you know, that like the uh the thing about music is like, well, I like their old stuff. Right. Well, I mean, the fact that these musicians have been together for over 50 years and they just put out a new album like in the last two weeks. I think it's a 25th album. Like, this is the evolution of what they are. So you shouldn't think about it as saying exile on Main Street's. Right, it's not exile, right? You know, or sticky fingers, or somewhat best album on the planet, as far as I'm concerned. But uh, but yeah, I think you know you can't look at that and say this is the body of work. I mean, that's kind of like saying about um an author that, you know, you like this book, but you didn't like that book. Well, that may be true, but I think you have to look at the evolution of what art prize is. And I think we are we've done that. I mean, bringing the juried pieces on um was a response to art critics saying, well, it's only a public vote. Well, I mean, we have public votes other places. In fact, I think we have a midterm coming up. So uh I mean, I think right about the same time. Well funny how that works.

unknown 20:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:42

I remember that happening before. Yeah. How as we wrap up here, because we're kind of running out of time, as we wrap up here, what advice would you give someone, whether it's their first time or their 16th time, that they want to go out and see our price? What should they maybe look at? How do they prepare themselves?

SPEAKER_00 21:04

Well, there's there's certain venues that I think you're gonna want to go to, and it depends on the amount of time that you have while you're here. Um, you know, obviously when you look across the street at DeVos Place, they always have a great display. The curator there is a friend of mine, and he always brings in good work. But there's also going to be more work in that space than other places, so you're gonna see more. But um, what we have the luxury of is you can see all the art online and you can figure out what it is that you're looking for. And, you know, what I would uh what I would do if this was my first time is I would say, okay, where who is this artist? Where are they from? Why are they in this space? Um, you know, sometimes the most spectacular pieces are in a restaurant. You know, I mean, I think the there's a there used to be a subway down on uh Monroe that actually had a a finalist in there.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

And uh, you know, I think it's about, you know, what is it that you, you know, figure out what it is that you like and figure out the energy that you're about. I mean, I'm always going to be about big, audacious things because that's kind of what I've done. I mean, the mural that I helped curate on the side of Kendall or the one on the Bridge Street Market are two of my favorite murals in Grand Rapids. And, you know, one is from was is from Chicago, the other is from is was from Nashville or from Asheville. And to be able to work with those kind of artists is a dream come true. And I mean, as someone who is, I mean, I've worked with artists from Finland, from Austria, from I'd say probably 25 different states as a curator for art prize. And you get to learn a lot about what people see. Because I mean, a lot of times your art is about the environment that you grew up in. And so, you know, if you see someone from New Orleans, maybe they're going to have a different look at than somebody from Kalamazoo or from Toronto. And I mean, so I would say, you know, get in there and explore, but at the same time, explore the venues because our downtown has changed so much. I mean, I worked as the retail retention attraction specialist for the city for six and a half years. The amount of businesses that have come into this city in those six years, seven years is amazing. I mean, we have a really cool downtown, and there's unfortunately people that live 10 miles out from where we're sitting right now that don't come downtown because they're like, there's nothing to do. Well, the reality is we've got a lot of great things to do downtown.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

So many things to do downtown. Final question. The one thing you wish anybody watching this podcast knew about Art Prize.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Uh what I really like about Art Prize from an artist standpoint and from a curator standpoint is that everybody's invited to the party. If you're an artist and you can find a connection and you can have a piece in Art Prize, and that in itself is a big deal. Um, you know, d to be able to say uh you are an artist that competed in this is a thing. And in for and for the in uh and then, you know, I can't not be an economic development brained person now. But the idea that people are going in and spending money in these places and helping sustain these businesses, because you know, there's a short sprint from art prize to Christmas, and then there's that three or four month lull that we all go through in the restaurant and retail world. But like to say, you know, this is a real true community event. You know, this isn't run, you know, it may have been started by uh a wealthy family that help uh push this thing along, but now it's the city, it's downtown Grand Rapids Incorporated and Kendall College of Art and Design, who are the people that are shouldering this. But what we all need to do is kind of say, can I give five bucks? Can I give 10 bucks to make sure that this thing is sustained in our city? Because it is free, but free isn't free. And so I mean, putting a few bucks towards it, um, it's kind of like a silent victory saying, you know what, I did I supported this thing that I've gone to see, you know, even if it's from a small financial standpoint. But yeah, this is about everybody. That's what I love about Art Prize.

SPEAKER_01 25:13

And every artist, including the Rolling Stones, needs a patron.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

100%.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Richard Ebb, thank you so much for joining me for this episode. My pleasure. Looking forward to this year's Art Prize.

SPEAKER_00 25:24

Same here.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

Thanks. Thanks for joining us for this episode of the official Art Prize Podcast. Make sure to download the Art Prize app and cast your votes. Visit artprize.org for more information.