From Trauma to the Page | A Nurse's Journey Through Writing & Forgiveness — Nancy Jasin Ensley

#WritingAsHealing #PTSD #MentalHealth #StoriesAndStanza #Resilience

"I decided I didn't want to be afraid all the time." That one decision changed everything for Nancy Jasin Ensley — and it might change something for you too.

In this episode of Stories and Stanza, host Abhra sits down with Nancy — a writer, registered nurse, teacher, and grandmother of fourteen from rural Michigan — for a conversation that moves between the craft of writing and the work of healing.

Nancy shares how a difficult childhood marked by PTSD and abandonment shaped her, and why it took her ten to twenty years before she could write her memoir, The Tire Swing. She talks about what it means to find stillness inside the tornado — her metaphor for those moments when life is chaos but you learn to breathe in the centre of it.

The conversation explores why childhood PTSD was only recently recognised as distinct, how journaling sustained Nancy through years of caring for parents with dementia, and why she believes writing is for everyone — not just those who publish.

Nancy brings her themes to life through her characters: "3B," a half-alien boy who overcomes bullying with nothing but a smile, and the Martians of Indigo 35, who gave up feelings entirely because they believed emotions caused war.

She also shares hard-won lessons on writer's block, the realities of editing and self-publishing, and the moment a difficult colleague read her memoir and called her by name for the first time — because behind the name tag, he finally saw a person.

The episode closes with Nancy reading "The Tire Swing" — a poem about the choice we all have to ride.

🕐 TIMESTAMPS
 00:00 Childhood PTSD Reality
 01:10 Podcast Intro Trailer
 01:34 Meet Nancy Jasin Ensley
 03:24 Early Life and Reading
 05:23 Writing as Healing
 08:08 Publishing and Craft Lessons
 10:56 Themes Across Genres
 16:02 Beating Writer's Block
 22:10 Resilience and Self-Care
 24:33 Fail With Me — Healing
 32:36 Authenticity in Storytelling
 40:06 Empathy and Mental Health
 49:06 The Tire Swing Poem Finale

✍️ ABOUT NANCY JASIN ENSLEY
 Nancy is an author, legal nurse consultant, hospice specialist, and teacher who has written across memoir, literary fiction, science fiction, mystery, thriller, action and adventure, and children's literature. Her career in nursing, hospice care, legal consulting, teaching, and supervision has given her deep insight into the human experience — and those experiences inform every story she tells.

"I write because it is how I listen. I write because it is how I remember. And by grace, I will keep writing."

🔗 Connect with Nancy: https://nancyjasinensley.com/

Find this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/rynjo6P_igI  

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Transcript

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Nancy 0:06

PTSD wasn't even recognized for children. In the last 10 years they've finally realized that can be a very different form of it than those that are in the services, and I believe that- allows you to go in two directions. You can hang on to that s- that fear, you can hang on to that unforgiveness and lash out at people and hang and stay with anger.

Abhra 0:35

Do not harbor that emptiness. Find a medium to channel whatever you are feeling.

Nancy 0:44

And anger's based in fear, fear that I had done something wrong, that I didn't do it right, or I started the day wrong, or I'm just not good at anything. This is life, the tire swing. It beckons us to do great things. Sometimes we soar, sometimes we fall. It makes us dizzy when we twirl out of control. But all in all, we have the choice to ride.

1:10

Stories and Stanza is a podcast exploring creativity, resilience, and the transformative power of human stories. Through our two series, Between the Lines with creators and Fail with Me focusing on wellness and life's challenges, we bring you authentic conversations with inspiring voices from around the world. If you are drawn to meaningful dialogue that both comforts and challenges, follow us on YouTube or any podcast platform

Abhra 1:34

Hello everyone, and welcome to a new episode of "Stories and Stanza." today I am joined by my guest, Nancy Jason, who is a writer and a nurse, and we have a lot to explore in today's, episode about her writing journey, how she evolved across multiple genres, and what healing means to her through writing. Hi, Nancy. Welcome to "Stories and Stanza."

Nancy 2:05

Hello, Abhra. Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.

Abhra 2:09

Thank you so much for taking the time, and I know we have a lot of time difference between us, and it makes it little bit tricky sometimes to work with, people who are in EST So it is- That's right little bit tricky to work with guests in EST.

Nancy 2:32

Sure it is.

Abhra 2:33

So quickly, for anyone who has joined us for the first time, in "Stories and Stanza," we run two segments or two series. One is called "Between the Lines," where we talk to writers about their craft, their messaging, their journey, inspiration, publishing, and in the other segment is called "Fail with Me," where we talk about mental health, wellbeing, emotional intelligence, healing, resilience, mindfulness. So today, we have, a lot to explore with Nancy, and we will see how that unfolds through our conversation today. So Nancy, to get started, would you like to tell us a little bit about yourself?

Nancy 3:24

I'm a grandma of 14 kids and a great-grandma for five and a half kids. I have five children, and I live in the country in Michigan. I am a registered nurse and also a teacher also a writer. I enjoy life. I have a faith that's very important to me, and it kind of guides what I do, hopefully, if I listen. Listening is very important. I, love children of all ages. I taught teenagers and, in the '70s, and I kinda wrote a book a- about like a Huck Finn story. It's called Orphans. And they're very interesting in how they've changed over time. the teens seem so much more, older than I remember myself. I was still playing outside and enjoying that kind of thing, and I believe that the structure of electrical, you know, electronics and all of that has made a difference in, how they grow and how they communicate. But I love writing. I started writing when I was eight years old I read, I was able to read when I was four. I, my parents were not well-to-do and we didn't have a lot of toys, so they would, they'd have books. My father read stacks and stacks of books, had a photographic memory. So there were always stacks of books everywhere. My mother was a concert pianist. She, trained in Julliard. So I'm so blessed to have some genes that allowed me to branch out and be able to write and try to publish my books. I'll give you a little s- story about the publishing industry, which I'm still learning about. I, wrote a majority of my books in my 40s, and that was about 40 years ago, when I had started my memoir, The Tire Swing, when I was in my 20s, I had kind of a rough childhood that was quite difficult, and there were some emotional problems that resulted from that, and I so believe that we need treatment for that. We need support. We need to recognize that that truly is a disease, and so important to, to put more energy into treating people that have mental health, physical problems, all of those, especially ones that go way back into their early childhood. PTSD wasn't even recognized for children. In the last 10 years they've finally realized that can be a very different form of it than those that are in the services, and I believe that- allows you to go in two directions. You can hang on to that s- that fear, you can hang on to that unforgiveness and lash out at people and hang and stay with anger. I decided to do something else with that. I decided I didn't wanna be afraid all the time, and I was. I decided that I'd find ways to express myself even if I was uncomfortable with other people. I found help for those for PTSD and for abandonment issues, and that was great in allowing me to get up in front of people and give a talk. Try new avenues in my nursing nursing career, which has been a long, varied one. I got to be a legal nurse consultant, hospice nurse. I had two businesses of my own. I got to travel. I had so many patients that I would love to tell you their stories because everyone has a story, and I really think that everyone should write. When I have something in my head and I'm thinking about it, if I write it down, it turns out to be quite different than what's spinning around in my head. so I encourage everyone. You don't have to be a writer. You don't have to publish anything. You can hide it if you want to. I have journals everywhere. I hope a few of them they don't find, but I'll hide them well. And, but writing was a, a gift that helped me through life in many, many ways and, and I feel blessed to be able to have that talent. I haven't sold ton. I'm no famous writer. I probably never will be. I did my self-publishing. I wrote queries to traditional publishers. I got some recognition from them, but you have to persist, and you have to have the right publishing, what they like to do. Perhaps they don't want sci-fi. Perhaps they don't like murder mysteries or romance all of those things. So you have to learn a lot about the business And, you either can get that from book groups. You can read about it. You can take classes. I took literature classes in college and I had a wonderful high school professor who she-- No one liked to be in her class. She was very austere, and if you came into her class, you stayed in her class. You didn't go off and do anything else. And, she would take us to the library twice a week, and we would sit in the library and read, and she would give us a topic, and we'd have to find books on that and write essays and write write, write, write, and then learned how to edit even early on in high school.

Abhra 9:26

I totally see the point

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Abhra 10:00

you made about everyone should write, even whether they should publish or not, because

(Cont.) From Trauma to the Page | A Nurse's Journey Through Writing & Forgiveness — Nancy Jasin Ensley

Abhra 10:08

that's something I have told many of my friends and family when they are in a difficult phase or when they felt maybe lonely, that resort to writing, and it can be anything. Do not harbor that emptiness. Find a medium to channel whatever you are feeling. And when I look back at my own writing journey, I feel that it is because I started writing, I am a different person. So I can totally relate to that. I haven't published anything in last three, four years because I, am writing like small pieces here and there, and I feel that I need to know what I am writing next. So there has to be that clarity and that sign, so then I can publish. But I can still write on a day-to-day basis and have fun with it, have, a medium to channel my energy. So I absolutely agree to what you're saying. And in this section, when I speak to writers in "Between the Lines," this is something I like to hear from them as to what is the messaging behind their writing. They are writing maybe in one genre or multiple genre, but when they choose to write something, what is it that they want to share? What is the story that they want to tell? And because you have wr- written in different, genres, so you can talk about multiple genres if you like, or if you can, talk about any particular area that's your personal favorite, that if y- like you can pick and choose basically is what I'm saying.

Nancy 12:15

Okay.

Abhra 12:15

tell us about your core ideas about what you're trying to communicate with your work.

Nancy 12:23

They say, "What it w- is there one general theme that you're trying to get to the public, that might read your books?" Depending, no matter which genre it is. I think one of the It, one of the main things is acceptance. Acceptance of the protagonists, whether they're murderers or who they are. It's being able to understand what drives the human being to be the way they are. It can be so many. It can be faith, family, forgiveness, fun, laughter, all of those things. Underneath each one of those different genres, there is a story. Take Bernard Bartholomew Basilning, which is really hard to say, especially if you're a child, so we call him 3B, and he is a product of someone from outer space and a lady that sold hats. And both of those people were, because they looked different than other people, they were kind of bullied in a way. And when Bernard was born, he had antenna, he had to hide them with his hair, and he was tall and skinny, long arms and long legs, and he had powers that he really hadn't shown anyone, and he smiled all the time. And my theme of being able to overcome difficulties, people that might be causing you fear yeah, well, he smiled all the time. That's what he did. That's how he handled being an earthling when he really was a little bit of both, and having some powers. So all of a sudden he had the chance to save someone that had fallen in a well, and then the children looked at him in a whole different way. They looked at his smile because they knew he was happy that he could help someone else, so they stopped bullying him. So I, I l- that theme no matter what book it is. Even if it's a murder mystery, to understand what underlies how people w- act, and how they respond to the things that happen in their lives, and be able to use forgiveness, understanding, and active listening is really important no matter what genre you're in. So that's kind of the theme I underlies most of the books. You wouldn't see that generally unless I was telling you about it, but I hope they feel that when they read. It's not anything that I'm conscious about, it's just that being a nurse and being a caretaker I have seen so much of life and death and just everything that you possibly could ever see. And it has given me the ability to have acceptance even though it might be difficult, and have forgiveness even though you may not agree. so that's underlying most of my books. Yeah, most everything I've written. And at the end of it, I say, "I said a little prayer, and I d- took a little breath, and I took a walk, and afterwards, I wasn't angry anymore. I was okay. I was upset that something had happened and gone wrong, but I wasn't angry anymore." And anger's based in fear, fear that I had done something wrong, that I didn't do it right, or I started the day wrong, or I'm just not good at anything. So that's why I journal and all of those things. So that common theme, I'm, I'm hoping that continues in whatever I write, even if I someday get to do my 18th century six books that I wanna write about it, 'cause that's my favorite time way back in the 18th century.

Abhra 16:32

I- in this writing-focused segment, what I try to do is create reference points or create let's say, the right sort of pointer for anyone who is struggling to write. And you mentioned something very important, and I know I have been troubled by that for a very long time, is when I am thinking something and when I am writing that down, I feel the exact thoughts or the exact idea is not transpiring into written words. And this is a lifelong quest. It goes through ups and downs and different sort of arcs, so to speak. If I read some of the poetry I wrote maybe 15 years ago, I would not like them now. I would probably tell them differently. But when I was going through that phase, that was the right way for me to communicate. And because of this difference that we have a picture in our mind, but what we are writing down is slightly different, it's not exactly the same, and it's a challenge for our craft, let's say. And I'm sure that it troubles, a lot of writers, around the world. So I wanted to hear your thoughts on coming to terms with it and overcoming that challenge.

Nancy 18:10

Those periods of time when I've got a, say I've got a great idea and I sit down and I'm, I'm typing away and I'm, I don't get anywhere with it. I can't, my theme doesn't go through it. The words don't come to me. It's not total writer's block, 'cause I wouldn't even go in the room with an idea if I had that, and I've had those. I'm sure everyone that tries to write does. I I have to do something. I have to do exercise. I have to leave it. I can't, I don't wanna get so upset with what doesn't transpire from my mind to the computer or pen in hand. I have to get up. I have to take a walk. I have to exercise. Sometimes I go in the car and turn on some music, 'cause I love music, and I sing to it. But I can sing all I want in my car. And just taking, or I go and shop, or I do something else, totally has nothing to do with my craft Because I don't wanna be blocked. I don't wanna be blocked as long as I was before I took up The Tiger Swing and wrote it. I mean, that was 10 to 20 years. And it was, it was my story. I needed to tell that story in order to move on in my life. It meant so much in my professional life and everything. All of those feelings that you have when you write your book. So sometimes I pick up someone else's book a bestseller. there's so many authors that I, I just love. I love romance, I love action, I love... but I'll pick up a book and read someone else's, and then all of a sudden I'll see a, a paragraph or so- a group of words that, that's how I wanted to say it, and then I'll run back, and then I can write for a little bit. So if I have had true writer's block where absolutely I do not even wanna go in and write an I don't wanna do anything with the craft. Some of the difficulties in being a writer and want to get published is that it is a, it is a whole business in and of itself. Being able to learn AI, learn the computer. I'm older and my kids had to teach me how to use the computer, and I'm, I'm no, I'm not that great at it. But luckily, during PO- COVID, I got to do a Zoom meeting with a support group I work with. So I got to use Zoom, which has a lot to do with the podcast. Writer's block is very different because you cannot sit down and write. I, myself, those times that have happened, I didn't think I was a good writer. Perhaps I did a query, no one noticed me. I sent in my manuscript, and they tore it apart. Said, "What do you know? What are you trying to say here? You keep ju- going, jumping from one person to another." So some of those things happen. You have to understand the business, and you have to learn that in one way or another. I started to subscribe to Writer's Digest, which gives you a lot of dos and don'ts as a writer, especially a new, a novice writer. And to publish your own, you should have your own company, your own LLC, in order to do self-publishing. That way, your ISBN is in your name. It stays in your name, so you're recognizable. Then also, you need the Library Conduit- Congress number a lot of times in order to put your books into stores. And yes, you could have rejection, and you need to be able to take that. And you need to be able to take criticism. I had, when rebranding my book, there were 53 pages of editing. That book has been edited I don't know how many times over the times it's been produced, and I had to look at each and every one of those critiques and say, "Do I accept it, or do I change it a little? But there's always there's a lot to the business, and sometimes we have those moments, and then our lives can get h- crazy. I had to take care of my father, my mother, both of them with dementia, both of them with renal failure and diabetes, and go to work 12 hours a day at the hospital, take care of my daughter who was getting a divorce, and three little urchins that lived in our house. And I couldn't write, but I had a journal, and I started every day or after everybody went to bed finally or I took care of my parents how that made me feel, and then I had to end it with something thankful. Thankful that I have a home that I can accommodate them. Thankful that I'm a nurse, that I could take care of my ailing parents and love them no matter how hard it was. So you have those times when you cannot write and you want to, and then later on when you do, are able to sit down and write something, all of those experiences fall into whatever you're writing about. A dog, about... I have a story about a dog, 'cause it came into my yard and I wondered about his travels, so I made up a story about that. So you, never know what your experiences, good or bad, those, those failing moments, don't let it take you down so low. And if it- if you do have depression or some other illness, physical illness, mental illness, get help for it. Take your medicine, please. Listen to the doctors. Do things for yourself that are good. You have to put yourself first sometimes in order to be able to be there for others. So

Abhra 24:29

you

Nancy 24:30

for sharing- You're welcome

Abhra 24:32

your amazing journey of resilience and taking care of people. And you mentioned something truly beautiful that When you are doing something, like if you have that awareness, the power that you have on people, that is something, it makes you grow. It makes you see things very differently. And I will take slightly detour from our writing conversation. Okay. In the "Fail With Me" segment, this has been sort of my quest for last couple of years, that what we are labeling as failure in our lives may not be failure. It is probably a story that it is trying to tell us something, and are we mindful enough to be able to accept it, to be able to listen to it, and then we see what we can do with it. I want to-- Th- that's why I picked up the title "Fail With Me," that it, at some day it might be my memoir. But I really wanted to flip the narrative that we usually harness in our mind as failure. So we get stigmatized by failure, by hardships, by challenges, and you shared a beautiful story of overcoming that, and you brought in your awareness that I have the power to support the people around me, and that has to mean something. And I wanted to hear from you in terms of your healing journey. Is there anything you would like to share with our listeners today? How it worked for you, and if you want to overlay that with your power of written words, please feel free to do so. I'm curious to understand that how you made, it work through all these difficult situations and how you see that flowing into your craft.

Nancy 26:56

I've- I, oh, I'm so glad you brought that up because I counsel girls that have had problems with addiction and mental illness and, That have had terrible things happen in their life, rape and all kinds of things. And one, one thing that I didn't realize during the storm You know how a tornado is, and in the middle of the tornado it's silent. You, everything's going around you, but it's silent. So I think you have to find a time when you can sit down and write and reflect how am I gonna make something How am I going to m- get through this? What am I gonna use to do that? I Yes, writing, yes. But I think my faith. I believe in a power bigger than me. I have to believe that something made us. I don't, talk about religion, I talk about energy is out there and it doesn't die. And to use whatever energy there is that's bigger than me to give me a moment to I learned guided imagery. I learned meditation. I learned I have to take a breath. Whatever allows you to breathe through that difficulty, all of a sudden you will find that you're in the eye of the to- tornado. You can see all the things that are happening around you, but it's silent, and you need those moments to re- to understand how, what am I going to learn from this? Patience. Huge amount of patience. Patience, forgiveness, acceptance. Laugh. Just laugh. I mean, sometimes I would laugh until I cried, or cried and then laughed, because there's always humor, even in a tragedy. I've, so many times I've been in ICU and ER and in accidents and all kinds of things that are tragic, and then something tiny, funny will happen, enough for someone to laugh or smile, or make them laugh. You never know. So be able to do that. that moment when you can get out of the tornado that's surrounding you and you can get in the center of it, you'll be able to see, can I fix this? No. Can I fix this? Maybe. Can I do anything to change this, or do I just have to walk through it at those moments? So that's been my ability to get through life full of stuff, all kinds of stuff, good, bad. And I love your title Fail With Me. That is a beautiful title. Titles tell you so mu- It can be one word, right? But Fail With Me is beautiful because who are you going to do it with? I have friends. I have friends from nurse's training and from high school. One of them is dying, but she calls me as soon as I write her a poem. And she said, "This might be the last time I'm talking to you." And I said, "You know how much I love you." And we wind up laughing in the midst of that. I just love that. I, look forward to you writing that book because I can just see so much in that title in and of itself, because everyone fails, but you wanna be... Who do you want with you? What do you want with you? What do you want to get you through it, carry you through it, get you out on the other side, and look back and say, "Yeah, I learned not to do that again," or, "Yes, I'll do that again, but I'll do it in a different way"?

Abhra 31:23

I came up with the f- title when I was going through a difficult phase in my life, and I felt that there's nothing is, happening right in spite of best of my efforts. But later, as I underst- to, navigate that, and I really love the example of tornado that you're silent and you can see everything around you. I had a similar awakening moment where I could see what is actually happening, and there is no way of labeling this as failure. How do I deal with it? And the other important thing that came to me was that everything may not have a closure. Like we think that we are, we are hurt, we are humiliated or frustrated, or can be or maybe grief, can be anything. But it taught me that we may not always have closure, and having that expectation of closure, it is never ending. The moment that ends and you rise above the challenges, which is what inspired me to start writing about this as a book. When I, I write it like here and there, sometimes in one journal, sometimes in Word document. I've not just consolidated it in one place, but I hope to do so at, at some stage. And that brings me to the next thing I would love to hear from you, and it has taken me a long, long time to understand the authenticity and mindfulness in writing. And I will give an example what I am talking about I was recently reading a book which was by a German writer who got awarded with Nobel Prize in literature after few years of writing this book, and one of my friend has translated this book. I don't read German, so that's how I was able to read the book. And when I was reading it, I felt that the visuals, the moments, the emotions are so real that I could be there in that narrative. I was part of that narrative. I was able to see that happening around me, and I was fully present in that story And that unlocked something in me that maybe this is the goal of writing. And I am curious to hear all of that life experiences, how does that flow into your writing? How does that authenticity that presents the beautiful mindful moment you mentioned that how does that flow into your creativity?

Nancy 34:46

Can I give you an example? Yep. I'll give you an example that just happened recently. My I took care of a, a, a gentleman who had been behind a truck that had those big long pipes and the s- the strap that was holding the pipes gave way in the, in, in the ICU, and it almost beheaded him. He had a 10-year-old daughter with him, 10-year-old daughter And I took care of him in, in the ER with several other nurses and doctors. He was still alive in a way, 'cause he still had a carotid artery. The little girl sat out there by herself, and when I looked at her, I thought "How, does that feel to be in the car?" And then a week ago, very good friend of mine was going on the opposite road of a p- of a pipe c- covered truck. It, the bland opened up, came through the window, and hit her in the face. And I felt like that little girl again. There was so much emotion all over. I can't save him. What do I do? I don't know what I'm doing. I, oh my goodness, this is bedlam. No one's taking care of her. I need to take care of her, and they said, "No, no, you need to come in here." And that dilemma, that, that tornado that sense of that's what I wanna put in my book. I want you to feel what I'm feeling, what my protagonists are feeling. That's why I believe it's very important to, for you get to know the sides of the people that you're putting, the protagonists you're putting into your, into your work, Perhaps they, hopefully they will say, "Oh my goodness, that's how I felt when mom died. That's how I felt when my dog died. That's how I felt, how elated I felt when I finally graduated." So you want-- Feelings are very important. The Martians in my Indigo 35 have no feelings. They realized that it caused war, and it got in the way of your intelligence. So you get to know them without feelings and how we get to see them and try and teach them that it's important to have those things, and how funny it is trying to teach them that. They're very robotic and very smart. But I understand what you're saying. You want you wanna be a part of that, what you're reading, and when you become a part of that, when you can really empathize, empathy is so important, empathize with what they're feeling and w- using your own feelings, then you are part of the story, and that's, that is a goal. That's, a bestseller Whether it sells a lot of books or not, it's still a bestseller because you got to give the message that you wanted to, and somebody learned from it, and somebody felt it like you did. Isn't, wouldn't that... When you gave me that, when I saw this title it, brought me back through my whole life that just those three words, they are with me because I never was alone. Even though I felt alone, I never was alone. There was someone, something with me. And if I can ever get that through my books. He thought he was hot stuff. He never said their name, ever. And he asked me, he says, "I understand you wrote a book." And he says, "Can I read it?" I said, "Yeah, if you'd like. It's a memoir. I don't know if you wanna read that. And, and it doesn't have a lot of sports in it." And he read it, and he came up to me one day and he said, "Nancy," he said my name. He said, "I am so sorry, because behind that name tag is a person, a real person, and I am gonna work really hard to remember that everybody here, I'm not the only person, they're all people." So he read my book. I don't know what in that book told him how important that was to identify people f- and, revere them for who they are, no matter what they are, no matter what failings they have. It's just, gosh, I was so excited. I wanted to hug him, but you don't hug them, unless they ask you. But I wanted to because I thought, "That's, that, that means so much to me that my little words got to you, got through that thick skin." And the nurses were, like, shocked. It didn't last forever. He wasn't as good at it as he could've been. But for a moment, for a period of time, he realized something from that book told him how important everyone is, no matter who they are or what they are or what they believe. So that's it.

Abhra 40:36

This gratitude comes with awareness when we, are living life superficially that we're seeing someone with just a name tag, but we are not fully aware of ourselves and people around us, then we never have gratitude for anything, and it kind of comes hand in hand. in my book, in Fail With Me," since we are talking on those lines, this is a picture that I have in my head that there are three different circles. So in the very core of that circle is someone with a deep challenge, with some mental health barrier that they are suffering silently, but they are not able to communicate. Then they are surrounded by people who are loved ones or maybe carers. They don't know what they're caring for, so there is this barrier between them. They love them, but they don't know what their loved ones are going through. And then there are people around them, society and relatives and others, colleagues, and they don't know. They see a f- they cr- pass by a person on the street, they have no idea what that person is dealing with. Is that person- Yeah caring for someone who is deeply troubled? So we have these invisible barriers that we don't see, but if we are mindful about it, if we are fully aware about it, then the world would be so much better place to live in.

Nancy 42:20

We need it right now so badly. I think We've taken our empathy and we put it aside because it doesn't seem as acceptable in this moment, and the respect for yourself and the respect for others is so imperative in avoiding war, avoiding bullying, avoiding disease. And mental health is a huge problem. Huge. And we barely touch on the ability to take care of it. In some Scandinavian countries, they have closed their prisons because they don't put people with addiction and mental health problems in prison. They take them to care centers. They help the families keep them at home, educate them, give services to them. They use their taxes, that talk about everybody says they're so high, they use their taxes to bring it back to the people and help them, and we need to learn that. We need to see that, and we need to start working with it. We're a young country. We're teenagers. We're all in it, you know? We're, we're great, we're wonderful, the United States, we're amazing, and we are. We are. But there are avenues in processing a democracy or whatever kind of system you have, there are avenues that you need to slow down on or learn from or change. And if you aren't aware of that, then you can have disasters So I, I write my congressman all the time. She's probably sick of me, but I do get answers once in a while, and sometimes I'm totally wrong because I don't know the whole system, and it's good to hear that. So that's the thing that I can do, and yes, I can write my ideas, but I'm not going to call names. I'm not gonna be blustering. I'm gonna try and find out the facts if I do write about it. But please write your book. People need, they need somebody with them, understands understands how hard it is to take care of someone who's ill, that understands what mental illness feels like. my husband suffered from a terrible depression. It was a nightmare for many years, and as a nurse, we never had much schooling. we went to the psych unit and worked, but we never learned about it. So I had to get books out and read about it to understand it, to get through it, to realize that this, there's another person in there, and I didn't know him at all, and I need to figure out how to know him and how to, how to deal with n- know that his family has it in it, and I didn't. They think nurses, you know, you're supposed to know everything, but there's a lot of things that you missed in the '50s. You worked in a whole different way. So I, just, I so understand what you just said. I, love what you just talked about, people in it who, don't understand it, but love is there, and you, and y- you're dealing with love and fear at the same time, two- ends of the emotional sense and you're dealing with both of those and how do you get those together and take care of that person? How do you merge those amazing things and work it out? And then the person's passing on the street and you don't look like everybody else and maybe you're a, a schizophrenic that's on the street and wears odd clothes, but you don't know what happened to them. You don't know what s- they're dealing with or what that's like. empathy is very important and respect is important, and education is very important. Learn as much as you can, and be honest.

Abhra 46:41

Last year I think, I saw a lot of negative posts on social media on the Mother's Day people complaining, "Oh, I had a bad mother," or, "I had an abusive mother," or, "I had this, I had that." And then I wrote a little bit around, around this piece that when you were little and your mother was taking care of you, you had no idea what she was going through. So today- Hmm you can come at this with a higher awareness and try to see things as they were and- Then probably you will truly understand why she did what she did. So it is in a way our responsibility to understand our mothers as opposed to just blame them or shame them or put a guilt around that. with the awareness will come the clarity and the compassion that can complete the story, both yours and your parents'. It's easy to say that, blame your parents, but it takes a lot more to be able to see them and maybe, you know, if, if they didn't do something right, you should have the answers to why that was not right. But still see, look at every mother w-with that, compassion. And I received so many notes from people that this is absolutely what we needed to hear on Mother's Day.

Nancy 48:23

Understanding, empathy is important. It is. In whatever way you can do that. I had to forgive my father, and it was the best thing I ever did because, you know, he had problems and we were-- we had a lot of results from those, and I could have stayed blaming him, but what good would that do? It would-- I wouldn't have been able to take care of him in his older years if I had stayed angry or resentful. And I got I, got to know him and understand him and understand where he was coming from as an older man, and I got that blessing that a lot of people don't get to. The anger is still there and the person's gone. You're still angry with a s- with a ghost, and the ghost can be viral, virulent to your life being better. So that's-- I certainly understand that. Yeah. We do a lot of blaming for sure. Exactly.

Abhra 49:36

coming back to the core ideas, on the podcast, and this is something, that I absolutely love doing on the show, is, ask my writer guests if they would like to read something they have written. So is there anything, you would like to share with our listeners today?

Nancy 49:56

in my, memoir, in the first part of the memoir, people always said-- asked me, "Why did you... What does the tire swing mean?" And so I wrote a poem. the tire swing hung from a tree. It beckoned them, "Come ride with me." The rubber seat would bruise your thigh, but no one cared when swinging high. Above the ground, then touch the sky. If you pull and push, oh my, you may be brave and try to fly. This is life, the tire swing. It beckons us to do great things. Sometimes we soar, sometimes we fall. It makes us dizzy when we twirl out of control. But all in all, we have the choice to ride.

Abhra 50:43

That is beautiful.

Nancy 50:44

That's my thing. Thank you so much. I enjoyed speaking with you so much. Thank you so much. This was a delight. Thank you.

Abhra 50:57

you so much for your time today, thank you it was such a heartfelt, beautiful conversation. And anyone listening please, follow Stories and Stanzas so that we can bring you more, beautiful and heartfelt stories from speakers around the world.

Nancy 51:13

Thank you too, Abhra. God bless you. Take care.

Abhra 51:17

Thank you.