Joe 0:01

Welcome to Gratuity Included. It's not as good as a twenty percent tip on a five hundred dollar check, but it is the bonus companion podcast to the PreShift letter. Every Saturday, we break down the week's PreShift Instagram and email content. Not a rehash or a reading, but an expansion on the concepts, stories, and anything else that may not have made it onto the page. As often as we can, we welcome guests and other contributors, People who can add insight through their own experiences or because they were there for the same stories told in the PreShift. Hopefully, you've had a chance to read this week's PreShift Instagram and email. If not, you can find those on Substack, The PreShift Letter, and on Instagram @preshiftletter, or go to our website www.thepreshiftletter.com for links and contact information. Before we get started, I wanna thank everyone who was here day one. As of the publishing of week one and recording of this first episode, everyone participating is because they have a stake in The Pre-Shift. Whether you're waiting for me to tell the story of Chef Chanclaface to the whole world or just to hear me crash and burn, you're all ultimately connected to the stories, lessons, and philosophy. when I started putting pen to paper, and yes, I'm old, so I write all important things with a pen and paper and not with my damn thumbs. Anyway, when I started formulating all of this, it became obvious that the early tone was very serious. Not surprising to all of you who have worked for me. But in a way, it was necessary for this first part. It won't stay like this forever, so read on, learn your lessons, and quit whining. However, I don't want you all to get bored with me right away, and a podcast was already in the plan. So I figured moving those plans forward was the best way to lighten things up. We can have more of a conversation, and we'll have a guest once in a while to break up my grumpiness. The goal has always been to exert just a little positive influence in people's lives. I hope this extends my reach, and I hope you all

2:12

enjoy. Now,

Joe 2:13

Let's welcome this week's guest and get into it. This week, episode one, we welcome Mike Holmes, a veteran server, bartender, and local San Diego musician. Mike and I worked together a little over six years ago locally here in San Diego. Mike, thanks for being here. Beyond the very brief intro I just gave, you wanna tell us a little something about yourself?

Mike 2:36

sure. I've been in the service industry probably about 14 years now, here in San Diego. I'm really into, to craft beer, music obviously. I like having a good time, but I also like, you know, making sure customers and everybody has a good time as well. So yeah, that's my, my MO, I guess.

Joe 2:53

Nice. Mike Was also instrumental in the concept of the Pre-Shift letter, and very specifically the podcast here, Gratuity Included. Knowing his background in live performance and recording, having him done a couple shows in the restaurant a couple of times, when it came time to, like, purchase and set up microphones, headphones, all the equipment and stuff, I called Mike. I know a bunch of people who do this kind of work, but I specifically called Mike, for another reason we'll get into in a minute. But I wanted to give a very specific shout-out and thank you for your help on the technical side of things. But, uh, the, the, the biggest reason that, I did you as the first, guest, and why you were the easiest choice, was, Because you were the first person many, many years ago to say that, I should do something like this. I believe At first we had talked about a podcast, and I kinda, I don't know, I, I, I wasn't ready for that sort of thing at the time, obviously, 'cause it took another, like, seven or eight years. But, uh, essentially, you planted the seed and, many years later, I finally followed your advice. I did do the... a, a slightly different route than what we originally discussed, but, you know. So again, thank you. I'm here because of that and, I think a lot of other people agree, based on the, the feedback so far. So, tell me, why did you think it was a good idea for, uh, somebody who quite honestly is, like, middle management, um, m- like my, uh, my resume is not, uh, you know, something you see on LinkedIn in the top 10 of restaurateurs in, in the US. Um, but obviously you saw something there and, and I wonder if you can expand on that.

Mike 4:36

Yeah. I Think one of the first things, or first impression, when you first got hired, where we worked together, I noticed that I didn't even realize that you were the new manager, at first. I think you were, like, really methodical at, like, watching and you were looking at how everybody was doing things and working. And then I think maybe it took me about a year and a half of working with you to realize that this was all, like, kinda preplanned and this was a system that you had, and you were following a system and enacting it in through, you know, the way we were working and how we were doing things. And so then I started thinking, like, you know, you actually have a, a plan for all this. It's not just kind of I'm out here just telling people what to do and doing stuff. It's kind of planned, and if you can explain and articulate that plan to other people, then people can use it and replicate it and, and, use it to, to benefit themselves. So that was kinda where the first thought came in for me. And then obviously having conversations with you and stuff like that and, and knowing how you connect with people and how you connected with our staff. I'm still close with most of the staff that we work with and they all constantly talk about you and ask about you and ask how you're doing, and I think that the combination of just kinda that, methodical, planning and work in, in combination with the ability to connect with people on a real level I think is kind of a, a no-brainer k- to do something like this.

Joe 5:44

Yeah. I think that's also part of what made it, um, a longer process for me is because, because I am a big believer in, in concept over, over, like, yes, checklists obviously. Checklists work. Everybody knows that. Every owner will, like, drive them at you. Um, most managers will, and yes, I agree. But, concept is, is, is the hard part and putting that into words and, and really, getting those points across is difficult. Yeah. specifically when, when, um, at the place we were together, like clearly it wasn't broken, so it didn't need a whole lot of fixing. It didn't need really any fixing. It just needed to break through a ceiling. So like why Why go in and disrupt everything- Yeah when, when a couple little tweaks, you know? That's, that's all it takes. Yeah, that's just, that's good management, I, I think, personally. That's, of course, I'm really biased. But, uh, i- in your experience, what's the difference between, a good manager versus a bad manager? Taking the, the situation out of it necessarily, but, but just, like, very broad strokes, generalized.

Mike 6:57

Yeah. I Think there's like a... There's a bunch of different things. I think the one thing is, not asking anybody to do anything that you, you wouldn't be willing to do yourself. I think it's kind of like when you feel like the manager is part of a team- with you, and you're like, "You know, they're asking me to bus tables, they're busing tables. If I, if I don't do it, they're gonna do it. If, if they're asking me to do something, they understand the gravity of what they're asking me to do, they understand how difficult or not difficult it is." I think when you kind of feel like your manager is, like, part of a team, and they're willing to go to bat for you, they're willing to help you when you need help, it makes you wanna help them. It's like, maybe I have a day off, and they call me like, "Hey, Mike, I really need coverage." And I, if I don't love the manager so much, maybe all of a sudden I would, I got dinner plans. But if, I'm like, "Man, I know he's gonna... If I don't do this, then he's gonna be doing tables and working hard and working extra. Maybe I wanna help him 'cause he helps me. When I'm, when I'm weeded and I need help with my tables, he'll help me, so I wanna, I wanna reciprocate that." I think that kind of, like, feeling of camaraderie versus maybe, you know, sitting in the back and micromanaging more and, and asking un- having unreasonable asks for people to do certain things or, or not understanding that sometimes people get tired or sometimes people are having a bad day versus a good day. I think just kind of that all comes together to make a good manager versus a bad manager to me.

Joe 8:10

Got it. I Totally agree on the never asking somebody to do something that you wouldn't do yourself. And, not to get into, uh... Not to get myself into litigation or anything, but right before I arrived, the place that we were at had, uh, an issue.

Mike 8:32

Yeah.

Joe 8:32

And there was a cleaning day that had to happen. And I remember all of you guys, before you realized I was the new general manager, 'cause I was asking about, like, previous people, and whoever set everybody about their cleaning tasks, then said, "Okay, well, I'll see you later," and took off. And, and it was an unpleasant day, and everybody told me how unpleasant it was and how unhappy they were. And while it was already, something that I, I very much believe in, you guys know, I... If, if somebody gets overserved and goes and throws up in the bathroom, like, I go clean it up, right? I will I, I, I will complain the entire time to the person who did the over-serving and let them know they're in trouble. And then we're having a conversation about it later, but, you know, I'll, I'll, I'll make sure that that gets done. So I had already believed in it, but, but, uh, after hearing about that experience- which was, which was mere weeks before I showed up-

Mike 9:29

Yep

Joe 9:29

I was like, okay, note to self, don't, don't get on this crew's bad side 'cause, uh, they essentially chase somebody out over it. So- um, yeah. Um, so, so that kinda sorta in a way segues into, into my next question. What makes a successful day versus a day where you struggle?

Mike 9:50

Yeah. I Think something I've kind of learned is, especially as I've gotten older, is that, you do... This job does take a lot of focus, you know, whether you're a busser or a server, bartender, whatever you're doing. It takes a lot of focus, and the difference between, you know, if it's a slow day, you can get away with being distracted. Maybe you're hungover, maybe you- you're thinking about what you're gonna do when you get off work, or you wanna talk to your, your, your coworkers about something or something funny. But when it's really busy and, and stuff is happening all around you, you gotta kinda focus for a long period of time. It's a lot of remembering things, and the difference between, you know, m- uh, pushing the wrong button on toast or, not hearing somebody correctly or not being able to hide your displeasure when somebody says something, stupid or whatever is just the ability to focus and be ready for your, your shift. And so a lot of times this job can feel like it's not a job, 'cause if you're, especially if you're with people you enjoy being around and you're with your regulars and stuff like that, it kinda feels like you're hanging out, but it is a job, it is a business. And so being able to be focused and be present in the moment is something that, like- That is, is something that takes effort. So, a lot of times it's when it's like, okay, maybe I don't wanna be out until whatever in the morning, or maybe I don't wanna be hungover when I come in or be distracted or whatever. Like, I think may- maybe I need to, maybe I need to be, you know, work out. 'Cause that

Joe 11:06

never happens

Mike 11:07

in existence. Yeah. N- it never happens to anybody. I was only... I, I... Only me. I'm the only one who did it, guys. But, uh, uh, yeah, maybe go to the gym or eat breakfast or something before you... Like, just, just little things like that, I think it's like... It's, it's, it's small, but it makes a big difference in, in how you work. To me at least.

Joe 11:23

Yeah, nice. Nice. Uh, just as an aside real quick. Everybody, everybody that, that, that I know who knows about the project and, and is behind this is, is just dying for us to come on here and put everybody on blast- and do it like Anthony Bourdain- Kitchen Confidential style, you know? And, and, uh, I don't know. Yes, yes. Mm, also, again, I don't wanna get into any litigation.

Mike 11:53

Yeah, yeah. For

Joe 11:54

sure. Um, but, but also, like, I don't know, Bourdain did it, and did it so well that he made an entire life out of it, and, uh, and, and, and there's lots of people who do it now, and they do it exceptionally well. And, and for me it was like, goes back to that original thing that, that we talked about that you suggested years ago was, was like the, the, the process and the, um, the, the management, the learning of it was, was what was important going into this. Yeah. So while, yeah, yeah, you can't help talk about the industry without getting into a couple of those things-

Mike 12:33

Yeah

Joe 12:33

but, um, I, that's not gonna be the main focus. That said- It's gonna come up. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm just, I'm breaking the seal now.

Mike 12:43

It's inevitable.

Joe 12:44

Uh, and, and saying that yes, yes, we will get into it, but, um, we're gonna try to, try to not get me sued.

Mike 12:50

Yeah.

Joe 12:50

Um, I do have NDAs with some people on some things, so

Mike 12:55

Yeah

Joe 12:56

that would be bad.

Mike 12:57

That's fine.

Joe 12:57

Um, so w- what's the most difficult thing about this business for you?

Mike 13:05

Um, to me, I think, uh, I kinda touched on it earlier is like I think the line of like blurring in... It's like especially when you really like enjoy your coworkers, and I see a lot of new coworkers, it, it, it's kinda easy to forget you're working. It's easy, like it's easy to forget- Yeah that you're, you're talking to the same people or making jokes. It's all this kinda stuff, and it's kinda easy to forget that you're, you're at work. And I think there's moments where you gotta snap into like, "Oh, dude, I'm, I'm, I'm working right now. I gotta, I gotta..." And that's, that's difficult. And if you don't, if you don't maintain, like make a conscious effort to like remind yourself that, it's very easy. I see people all the time that are, you know, sitting in the back and, uh... Oh, I've seen people. I don't wanna say I, I, I'd see people. I've seen people sitting in the back, you know, talking to coworkers something when, uh-

Joe 13:50

Let's, let's not say- Let's put that in the past-

Mike 13:53

Yeah, yeah so that

Joe 13:53

anybody

Mike 13:54

who's looking at currently doesn't know that- Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I've seen people- it's once or twice before that sitting in the back, and I see talking and having fun with, you know, a- Yeah a regular or sitting at a table too long, and I see their other tables, you know, staring holes into their soul, and that they're just not noticing because they want a refill on their beer or, or soda or ranch or something, and they see their server talking to, uh- Mm-hmm another customer for too long or, or a coworker or something. So I think you just gotta remind yourself that it, it's a f- it's really, it's a really fun environment. You know, it can be if you're working in the right spots. It's so, it's easy to get, you know, lost in the sauce a little bit, and you gotta lock in and remind yourself.

Joe 14:29

Totally. And, and, and that's a function of... Like it, it, it's, it's such a double-edged sword because, because you want, you need that tribalism, that, that like- Yeah No, tribalism's probably the wrong word 'cause it has like a negative connotation, but, but it is a tribe, and you need everybody understanding that, that, that your work is just as important as somebody else's work and vice versa. Mm-hmm. And, the rising tide lifts all ships, right?

Mike 14:56

Yeah.

Joe 14:57

Um, and, and it is, it, it's, it's that, it's that double-edged sword, and, and it's hard to break sometimes. Um- Yeah w- it, it's, it's, it, and it's everywhere. It's everywhere, and that's like, that's- That's a good manager's job. Nah, nah, it's not even just a good manager's job because, because there's, like, like the whole team holds accountability-

Mike 15:19

Yeah

Joe 15:20

if you do it right. And, and in those situations, like, you know who's... And, and unfortunately, a lot of those people who, um, who can't run their own drinks 'cause, "Oh, well I couldn't get out of the conversation at the table." Yep. We all know that server.

Mike 15:36

Yep.

Joe 15:36

We all know that server.

Mike 15:38

Yep.

Joe 15:38

And, and, and those ones don't last long 'cause they get weeded by a good team.

Mike 15:43

Yeah.

Joe 15:43

You know?

Mike 15:44

People get tired of running other people's drinks-

Joe 15:45

Uh-huh all

Mike 15:45

the time, all night.

Joe 15:46

Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah. Um, so how do you deal with stress in the moment?

Mike 15:56

Um, I, I've actually... That's kinda like one of the easiest things for me. I usually have people ask me this question a lot when they work with me. I kinda just remind myself that while, you know, I'm trying to do my best and I'm trying to help people as much as possible, I'm not performing open heart surgery here. I'm not doing- you know, like I'm not... It's nothing that's that... It, it is important, but it's not that important. There's, it's not a life or death situation unless I messed up somebody's, you know, a food allergy. But other than that, maybe, you know, the customer's upset or whatever for all these reasons, I just try to, to remain calm 'cause if I get upset back at them or if I get stressed out, they can sense that. And, I'd, I just kinda just keep it even keel. And you know what? If after work I wanna process it a different way, I wanna drink a couple beers or something, sure, but like during the, during the moment, it does nothing for me to be stressed out. It does nothing for me. It doesn't help me achieve my goal of... It doesn't help me achieve their goals. It doesn't help me achieve my goals. It's just better for me to keep a level head and, and stay the course and keep working through whatever I need to work through. If it's super busy and maybe I have more tickets or more drinks than I feel like I can handle at the moment, you just, you just slowly work through it and hope, maybe hope somebody notices and offer some help. But, really all... It, it doesn't do anything to get flustered or get stressed out. It just, it just makes it worse. It makes it harder to do your job, so that's something I've always been, been good at and, something I kinda pride myself in, but that's how I handle it really.

Joe 17:18

Nice. So I asked you that, question for two reasons. First, a genuine curiosity. Um- it's something that I, I, I'm fascinated by because everybody has a slightly different process.

Mike 17:30

Yeah.

Joe 17:30

But, uh, second, i- in, in all the years we worked together, your ability to keep composure, and continue pushing forward and holding your poker face- is to this day some of the best I've ever seen. Uh, w- we were actually talking a couple weeks ago about a particular chef that we used to work with and a night he was losing his mind, throwing things and- being a five-year-old. And, and you, you had mentioned that, that you Just walked away and like laughed because- Yeah because you got so uncomfortable. But I know that guy well enough to know that there is no other way to, to deal with him specifically, and, and, and that chef 'cause- Yeah everybody listening right now, and for as long as this exists- on the internet has worked with that chef, and we all know who he is. And just laughing and walking away is the best thing you can possibly do because, because he wants that confrontation. yeah. You know, he or she requires that so that they can yell at somebody, so that they can feel better about themselves. So like seeing that kind of thing, I, I, I, I, I'm telling you, like I've seen some people deal with, with stress like exceptionally well. Um, I've rarely seen somebody as good as you are at it without... Like, 'cause even afterwards, even in the, in the, like, in the post-shift drinks- Yeah uh, you're not losing your mind like, like some other people. Like- Yeah and, and, and, yeah. It, it, it was really, um, it was something that I, uh- admittedly looked at and went, "Okay, okay, you, you need to calm down."

Mike 19:30

Yeah.

Joe 19:31

You need to not be confrontational. You need to be a little more like Mike and-"

Mike 19:35

Yeah

Joe 19:36

and, like, not do that kind of stuff.

Mike 19:38

I've had this kinda conversation with a lot of people. I mean, and not even just in th- this specif- specific person, but with, like, you know, difficult tables or difficult- Sure,

Joe 19:47

sure

Mike 19:47

anybody. Like, I, I had... If somebody's being difficult, um, I used more flagrant language when I was explaining this normally, but, uh- if somebody's being difficult to you, they're gonna leave this interaction and go be difficult with somebody else- Right and go be difficult with another person, and they're not even... Uh, after a day or two, they're not even gonna remember this specific interaction that you had because this is how they live their life. This is their demeanor. This is their normal, their norm. And you're gonna sit there, and you're gonna think about this one interaction that you had with this person for weeks, and you're gonna be upset about it. You're gonna be upset your whole shift. You're gonna be upset your next shift. I've seen it happen, and I'm like, "You're really letting this one small interaction with this person that's, that doesn't even remember this anymore because that's just what they do, affect your mood for so long and affect how you work and make you afraid to do things and, you know." And it's just not, it's not worth it. At, at that point, the- they win, you know? So you just can't, you can't let them, can't let them win like that. You gotta just, just flush it just like they're flushing it 'cause they're, they're not thinking. They don't even remember that. Like, they don't even remember the, the... So it's not worth, it's not worth getting worked up. It's not worth losing your cool. It's not worth any of that, doing anything like that. It's, it's kind of a... It just protects your inner peace, you know? That's what you gotta do.

Joe 20:51

That's outstanding. It, it's so hard, but that's, that's outstanding. Um- All right. Uh, so in the introduction, I mentioned you're a musician. Before we get out of here, you tell us a little bit about your music?

Mike 21:05

Yeah. Um, I've been doing music, wow, for, it's crazy to say, like 15 years now. Um, I think I started writing poetry when I was a kid, and it took me a really long time till like my late 20s to kinda be like, "Hey, maybe I should try making music." Um so then I got into that. I've met a bunch of cool people in San Diego. I regularly, you know, perform around the city. I think my next show is gonna be with my, my buddy Riston at The Belly Up. We're opening up for Talib

Joe 21:30

Kweli. No-

Mike 21:30

Yeah.

Joe 21:31

Oh, The Belly Up?

Mike 21:32

Yeah.

Joe 21:32

Oh. When is that?

Mike 21:33

Uh, it's gonna be September 17th. I think it's a Thursday.

Joe 21:36

Done.

Mike 21:37

Yeah.

Joe 21:37

Done.

Mike 21:38

Yeah. So it's gonna be a fun one.

Joe 21:39

That's outstanding. Opening for-

Mike 21:41

Yeah, Talib Kweli. Oh, okay. Yeah. With- Yeah we've got a bunch of cool people on the lineup too, a bunch of other local musicians and stuff, so, it's gonna be fun. It's gonna be a fun night. But yeah, I mean, I, I just love doing it. It's kind of a fun way to express myself. You know, I'm usually more quiet or reserved in person, so my music is kind of an opportunity for me to, to open up a bit. Um, also released a new project that's dropping next week. It's like a little six, six-track project, so it should be, should be out soon. So yeah, I'm just plugging along, doing it, having fun, enjoying myself. That's the, the goal.

Joe 22:12

Nice. Yeah. Uh, where, where, where can we find the new project or, or even your, your older stuff, um-

Mike 22:16

Yes. I have all my stuff on all streaming pro- uh, platforms, so Spotify, Tidal, uh, Apple Music, all that stuff. You just look up my... My, my... I wasn't creative enough to think of a, a artist name. I just used- my actual name, so but it's just Mike Holmes. Uh, same, same thing, so you can find all that there and yeah.

Joe 22:34

H-O-L-M-E-S.

Mike 22:36

Yes.

Joe 22:36

Yes. Mike Holmes. Okay. Cool, cool. Um- And so y- y- you mentioned something, and this is, this is like completely a side 'cause, um, I'm, I'm curious and now everybody has to listen to it. Um, how, what is the, the... 'Cause y- you do hip hop.

Mike 22:52

Yeah.

Joe 22:52

Um, what's the, the, the scene like here? Uh, you said you, you met a lot of cool people, and you're doing-- You're opening up for, like, an exceptionally well-known person and stuff- Yeah like that here in San Diego. So sometimes it, like, there's something going on, but, but I don't know much about it, so.

Mike 23:05

The scene is, the scene is awesome here. Um- Nice I think it's a little, it's kind of a hidden gem. I think a lot of people go to Los Angeles. It's obviously a major, hub for music and art. But, you know, just, just south of it is San Diego, and I think it's a little bit more community-based. It's a little bit more people aren't just looking out for themselves. It's everybody's kind of looking out for each other. People are willing to give you opportunities, if they feel that they fit you better, the people are willing to give you opportunities just 'cause they like you, whether you have, you know, five followers on Instagram or thousands of followers. You know, it's kind of a, it's more of a merit-based, based system. It's more of a you have real conversations with people. They're not just talking to you just to see what they can, they can get from you or who you know or whatever. So it's a really cool scene. It's really fun. It's really enjoyable. Um, lot of, lot of cool people, lot of cool events, lot of jam sessions, lot of recording sessions, a lot of people. It, and it kind of interconnects with some of the other scenes too, like the rock scene and the, all the other scenes and the EDM scene and stuff like that. There's a lot of collaborations that are happening and, and it's just a cool place to, to do music. Nice. It's a

Joe 24:07

nice

Mike 24:07

music-

Joe 24:08

Excellent. Excellent. Um, well, outstanding. Um, before I do the out, Belly Up, the 17th.

Mike 24:17

Yep.

Joe 24:17

Uh, and then on all of the streaming platforms. Go look for Mike. His, his stuff is, is pretty rad. Um, we've h- we, we had shows for anniversaries and- Yeah other events before, and it's always a good time. Um, I genuinely owe you quite a lot, Mike. I, I really appreciate you, my man. Thanks for, for, thanks for doing this- Of course and thanks for all your help with, with, with, with all of it from, like, day minus 10,000 or whatever- it was.

Mike 24:48

No, I appreciate it. Thank you for having me. This is, this is awesome. It's cool to kinda see it, see it all coming together and it all happening. It's, it's cool. Yeah. It's awesome.

Joe 24:55

Yeah. Thanks, man.

Mike 24:55

Yep. Thank you.,

Joe 24:59

That's week one, friends. Instagram, email, podcast. Thanks for reading. Thanks for listening. If you'd like more of The Pre-Shift, you can find us on Instagram @preshiftletter. The weekly email is on our Substack, The Pre-Shift Letter, or just go to our website, www.thepreshiftletter.com. Like, share, subscribe. Thanks, kids. We'll talk to you next week