May I have a Word?
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May I have a Word?
Doug Ellin
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Doug Ellin joins May I Have a Word? for a candid conversation about the journey behind one of television's most recognizable shows.
Best known as the creator of HBO's Entourage Doug reflects on the road that took him from aspiring filmmaker to creating a series that became a defining piece of 2000s pop culture. He shares stories from his career in Hollywood, the experiences that shaped him as a writer and creator, and what life has looked like beyond Entourage.
It's a conversation about creativity, persistence, success, Hollywood, and the lessons that come when the cameras stop rolling.
Doug Ellin - writer, director, producer, and creator of Entourage - on May I Have a Word?
Alright, alright, alright. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back once again to the May I Have a Word podcast. As always, I am your host, Gustavo Montes. What is going on, everybody? How are you? I hope y'all are doing well, staying safe, staying sane, and eating clean out there. Oh man, guys, let me tell you, I am feeling it today. Alright, this has been possibly an episode that I have done everything in my power not to geek out for a minute one, because today I had the honor of sitting down with Mr. Doug Ellen, writer, director, and creator of my all-time favorite TV show, Entourage. I mean, this is on Mount Rushmore, baby. When you're able to sit down with the guy that created something that means a lot to you and how every Sunday you were running to the TV to watch premium television, I'm just so honored and privileged to have been able to sit down and talk with him. Oh man, it was an incredible episode. But before we dive into that, folks, I gotta pay some bills, alright? I gotta pay some bills. I'm sorry. If I gotta do it, you gotta sit through it, alright? Today's episode of the May I Have a Word Podcast is brought to you by Goalie Nutrition. Don't we just love goalie nutrition? I know I do. Taking care of yourself doesn't always have to be complicated. Goalie Nutrition is known for making wellness simple and approachable with its lineup of gummies designed to fit easily in your everyday routine. Whether you're looking to complement your nutrition, support your daily wellness routine, or simply make taking your supplements a little more enjoyable, goalie offers designed options for modern life. Because sometimes the best healthy habit is the one you can actually stick with. Goalie Nutrition, simple wellness one day at a time. Oh my goodness, that is goalie nutrition for you. Go out there, try them out. I do. I've got a bunch here in my place, and let me tell you, it works wonders from head to toe, even the hair and the nails, I'll tell you that much. Oh, here we go. Boys and girls, these are the best on the block. Today's episode of the May I Have a Word podcast features Evo Gen Nutrition. Whether you're training for strength performance or simply trying to get more out of every workout, are you practicing for a PR? Are you training for something? You got a long run ahead of you. I don't know what it is. Evo Gen Nutrition offers a lineup of sports nutrition products designed with serious training in mind. From protein and pre-workout to recovery and performance focused based supplements. Evo Gin has built its name around athletes who are committed to pushing themselves further because progress doesn't happen by accident. It comes with consistency, discipline, and putting in the work when nobody else is watching. Evo Gen Nutrition. Evolve, perform, become more. That is it. Okay. That's it. We paid bills. Now we go on to the episode. Like I told you guys, I'm incredibly lucky. I truly am. Doug Ellen is best known for creator of HBO's Entourage. Doug reflects on the road that took him from an aspiring filmmaker to creating the series that became a defining piece of 2000's pop culture. That's not me just saying it, it is a fact. He shares stories from his career in Hollywood, beginning in a mailroom, the experiences that shaped him as a writer and creator, and what life has looked like beyond Entourage. It's a conversation about creativity, persistence, success, Hollywood, and the lessons that come when the camera stops rolling. Ladies and gentlemen, I proudly present Doug Ellen, who allowed us to have a word with him. Enjoy. All right, all right, all right. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back once again to the May I Have a Word podcast. As always, I'm your host, Gustavo Montes. Ladies and gentlemen, today is arguably the most special day in the history of this podcast. We're joined by a man that I have truly been a fan of his work from literally day one that I saw it. This fandom goes back to my high school days. We are joined by the one and only, the icon living legend, Mr. Doug Ellen, creator of my all-time favorite TV show, Entourage. Doug, thank you so much for taking the time to join me on May I Have a Word. Like I've been looking forward to this conversation since we first spoke. You've had an interesting journey throughout Hollywood, not only creating something that has become part of the culture even today. It's been off the air for many, many years of Entourage, but also experience everything that came before that. So I really appreciate you being here, sir. Thank you. My pleasure. No problem. All right, all right. We're gonna dive right into it. Before Entourage, before HBO, before everything that people associate you with now, who was Doug Ellen when you first arrived in Hollywood? What did you think that your career was gonna look like?
SPEAKER_01So I I mean, I got here, I didn't know anybody. I didn't know what I was doing. I'd never been on a film set before. Um, I was supposed to go to law school, and uh about three weeks before I graduated Tulane in New Orleans, I told my parents I'm going out to LA to do stand-up comedy. They thought I was out of my mind, which I might have been. And uh that's what I did. The day I graduated college, I went home, I got some stuff, but I went out to LA and I never turned back. And uh I really had no idea. I mean, I went out here with you know, I wanted to be the filmmakers that I loved, even though I never did anything at that point to learn anything about it. Tulane didn't have a film school, I didn't grow up around the business at all, but I wanted to be, you know, Woody Allen, Albert Brooks. I wanted to write, direct, and star in movies. You know, which sounds ridiculous. But um, that was my plan. Right. And I got to LA and I just I didn't even know where to start. I didn't know where to go. And uh uh, but that was the beginning, and ended up getting I had to get a job. Like my parents like, go, but you're gonna get a job, you know, like you better figure out how you pay your bills. So I I went to a temp agency, which uh got me a job at New Line Cinema, which was which was coming up at the time. Trying to think exactly. I mean, they became much, much bigger after that. But they're you know, they were they were a mid-sized film company. And uh I was the I I talked my way into being the head of the mailroom, and uh I was walking around pushing a mail cart, which only lasted about six weeks, but I that that was my job, and that's where I started.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. That's you said your parents thought that you were out of your mind. Did they ever at one point go, I'm sorry, man, I can't let you do this.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I don't think there was any we can't let you do this because they they weren't gonna fund it, you know. So there was there was nothing to say. They, you know, my my my parents were great. They told me they'd they'd they'd help me out for a year. I'd have to start making money, or I was on my own. That's that's what it was. And I got a job. I got this job pretty quickly, which was, you know, I was living in an apartment with um two people I went to high school with who moved out here. And um we shared a two-bedroom apartment, the three of us. Uh my friend Andrew was in the in the living room with a shower curtain in it, but it was actually a pretty nice place. I can't imagine what it costs today. Um but uh, you know, I started doing amateur stand-up nights while I was working at Newline and just started trying to figure it out.
SPEAKER_00I mean, the drive is there, but I'm gonna ask this, just to ask us was there ever a point very early on, you know, during those six weeks, or maybe after that, that you genuinely genuinely thought, you know, maybe I made like maybe I made a wrong turn at some point and I shouldn't be here.
SPEAKER_01You know, I had a I had some easy breaks early on. So my my times when I thought there were uh you know came later, when I thought maybe I, you know, maybe I gotta go back to law school. I'm talking when I'm 28 and I've already made two movies and sold scripts and bought a house and was having a baby, and all of a sudden I'm like, whoa, I don't know what just happened. Because my my beginning was I I don't want to say easy, but um, you know, I at New Line, I was I was I mean, it's it's kind of a bizarrely crazy story, even though it didn't totally work out. But uh at New Line, I was working there and uh I went to a screenwriting class at UCLA. I'd never taken a screenwriting class, I'd never even read a screenplay, to be honest with you. And um I took a class and they told everyone to get up and pitch uh their ideas for a movie. And all these kids got up, pitched their ideas for a movie, and I thought they were so bad that I thought it was a funny idea for a film to make a movie about bad pitching ideas. Um and I went back to New Line and I I worked in the mailroom. Wildly enough, the kid who was in the mailroom with me was a guy named Tommy O'Haber, who ultimately became a pretty successful director. And uh I said, I want to I want to go make a short film. Like, what do you think of this idea? And we sat down and we wrote like this script and you know, whatever. A day, a two, whatever it was. And um, in between, at some point, I don't remember, I had a fight at New Line with one of the VPs and I got fired. But uh but I still kept I still kept moving with the with the short. And uh one of the other VPs who happened to like me gave me his office to shoot at. So we shot this little 10-minute film, seven-minute film, whatever it was. Um I did stand-up, I was doing these stand-up nights. This is probably like all within my first eight months of being in LA, I think. And I started doing these stand-up nights, and I handed out flyers to the gave you know the other mailroom kid because I was no longer allowed in the building. I gave him uh the flyers to hand out to raise money to make this short. And for some reason, a bunch of people from New Line came in. Mike DeLuca, who was um, you know, ultimately went on to be a studio head academy award winner. Um, he came, saw me do stand-up, and gave me a $10,000 check to go make this short film. So I made this short film. I got people like David Schwimmer from Friends before Friends started, Ernie Hudson, you know. I just I ended up, you know, getting some Helen Martin, who was in a ton of shows, Johnny Silverman from playing softball with people and calling people, and got all these people and got cinematographers to come work, you know, for no money and make this thing that we shot in two days. And we shot it, and it took a while to edit it, uh, because it was a very different world of editing back there on film, sitting in my apartment and expensive and whatever. But we got this thing done. And when it was finished, a producer saw it. And I the timeline's not totally clear, but the producer sees this, it's fucking seven minutes long, and he says, You're a genius. I want you to direct this movie. The movie was called The Parent Trap, okay, which I'm sure you know the movie.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Okay. This movie was at New Line Cinema, and Mike DeLuca is the guy in charge of it. So less than six months after being thrown out of the mail room or eight months, whatever it was, I'm walking back into this um office as the director attached, if you understand the difference. The the production company can bring a director in, then they got to bring it to you know the studio, which is New Line, and they say, I'm the director, and I'm 22 years old. The only time I've been on a film set is this seven-minute short that I made, which was literally this. It was one camera facing what you can see it online. One camera facing one way. The direction in it was mostly about you know acting and and whatever. It wasn't a lot of filmmaking, you know, it was more of a almost like a little play. But uh, I go into Mike DeLuca, who just gave me this money six, four, six months earlier to do this movie. And I'm like the director of this movie, but I don't know a thing about directing.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01And I do know now, which I always try to tell people, uh, if you ever get into a situation like this, I would 100% bullshit my way through it now. But back then I was just like a schmuck, and he's like, Tell me how you how are you gonna shoot this thing? And I didn't even know what that meant. I was like, well, uh, you know, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, Mike DeLuca took me to lunch after and he said, You're gonna have a good career in this business, but you should, you know, go to film school, something, study, whatever. So I ultimately used that film to get into AFI, which I applied to, which uh I went to for a year. And when I came out of AFI, I made a second short film uh called The Waiter, which again had David Schwimmer in it, John Cryer from uh Two and a Half Men and some other people. And a producer saw that and hired me to do an independent movie called Fat Beach. I mean, it all sounds like kind of ridiculous. We shot this movie in like seven days, ran out of money. It sat around for eight months. Some a friend of mine saw it and said, I can sell this movie. He went and sold it to live entertainment. And now, I don't know, we're like 30 years later. This movie is still playing on cable. 30 years later. Um the short film led to the second short film led to Fat Beach. And then uh Fat Beach got me an agent, ultimately got another offer to me. This is all over about five years with these this going on. Fat Beach sold uh and played around the world. It was like a hundred thousand dollar movie, you know, and played around the world. That's incredible. Uh it was bizarre. And you know, I I had a meeting on Friday because of that movie where I went in to see Ice Cube, who uh thought I was gonna be black when I walked at the theater 100%, but I wasn't. And uh and then I got another independent movie that I did, which I also got David Schwarmer, who was a good friend of mine to come do with Jason Lee and um some other people, and we sold that to Universal. And so, you know, those years I was selling scripts, making movies that were getting picked up by studios, bought a house, living the life, or whatever. Things really changed for the moment after kissing a fool, which um should have been seen as like an independent success story, but it was released the same day as The Wedding Singer, and it was released as if it was a big as if it was a big studio movie, which it wasn't. It cost a million three, I think, all in. Um, and we actually have, and you can look it up, but we had higher exit polls than The Wedding Singer. Like when people walk out of the movie, they go, What do you think of the movie? We actually did better, but the reviews were terrible. It didn't make any money, and I suddenly went from like being a hot guy who was getting offers to do this and that to like dead as dead can be. I couldn't get anything, I couldn't get my own people to call me back. And I started thinking, I don't know, 28, 29, whatever I was. I was like, Wow, I I may like be out of this business. This is how it happens. I've heard about this shit. You're like, all of a sudden, you think you're doing something. You're moving.
SPEAKER_00The director jail really exists.
SPEAKER_01It really a hundred percent exists. And uh so I asked a friend, you know, and he said, You should get it to TV, which I'd never done anything on TV. I said, How do I do that? He said, Write a shec episode. It's funny because I just saw Larry David's uh wife like 10 minutes ago at this conference that I was at. But um, but uh I wrote a spec for curb. That's how long curb has been on the air, because that's like 2000. Oh so I wrote like an episode of Curb. Just you know, sat down and wrote it a couple of hours, something that I would think was funny. Right. And I sent it to my friend manager who represented Mark Wahlberg and uh who hadn't been calling me back, even though he he he lived with me when he moved into LA. And I think I I think I got him his first client, which was a kid from Fat Beach. Um, and uh, you know, and and I I say that somewhat tongue in cheek, but you know, he he he wasn't really thinking I was working anymore. But I gave him the script and he's like, we gotta go to lunch. Should we go to lunch? And he's gonna I he goes, I've I've been talking about this idea. Mark follows his friends around with a camera, and I think we should do this show about him and his friends, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, that's a shitty idea. I don't want to watch a bunch of fucking losers follow a movie star around town. And Steve and the producer Steve Levinson to his credit said, You'll figure it out. And I went home, thought about what it could be, uh, how I could kind of make it my own thing and what I would bring to it. And uh, and I don't know, a couple of months later we pitched it to HBO. They bought the script. That took about another 18 months before they let us shoot a pilot. So that was a whole story in itself. But yeah, and and that's that's where I am. Now I'm somehow 58 and uh, you know, trying to figure out what I want to do all over again.
SPEAKER_00When you tasted some level of success, you bought the house, and then you hit that proverbial wall right there, you're in director jail. How important were those years where things necessarily didn't happen at the level that you were expecting them to?
SPEAKER_01I mean, I don't know, important. I mean, it it's look, it's it's a wake-up call in this business always. And and I still tell myself this today. I mean, you have to work every day, you know, and if you don't, you're gonna just evaporate. It's just that simple. And, you know, there's some people, very few, who are so successful and so good that they can get away with a lot of stuff. But for the most part, if you're having some success, you have to grind and keep pushing and pushing and pushing, and there is no stopping. And because this is a business that is so unstructured, it really is incumbent on you to continue to do that, which you know, and oftentimes I hadn't done that. But um, you know, I learned a lot during those years that I put into entourage about how the business, because even though it was loosely based on Mark, Mark really did kind of have a just non-stop rise. He really never falter, he never faltered. And that was when we started talking about the show, I'm like, nobody's gonna want to watch that. And even though people watch entourage and go, oh, there's there's no conflict, it always works out. You know what? That that's the stress of an actor is can I get another job? Where am I going? Am I am I going up or am I going down? And you can either appreciate that or you can't. But that's the reality. For Mark, it really wasn't. The guy, I mean, since you know, Mark Marky Mark and the funky bunch, he's he's just kind of it's always been an unbelievable ride for him. And you know, and and he's he's also, but he's an example of someone that works their ass off constantly, who's training at four o'clock in the morning, and and you know, I I don't have his work ethic. I wish I did. But um, you know, so I I think I learned in those days that it's really important to keep going, to never kind of think that you're set because you're not. And you can be on top of the world one day and on the bottom the next, you know, and it's not easy to get off the mat. So that's that's definitely what I learned there.
SPEAKER_00Take me back to the beginning of Entourage. When you go from nobody's gonna want to see this till you sit down, you actually give some thought into it. What did you see in that that you were making that made you believe there's a television series here?
SPEAKER_01Well, at the time, and it's wild to think now, 20 years later, I mean, the PC culture of now, people think like didn't exist, but it really did back then. And R-rated comedies that I grew up on Animal House, Corkies, whatever it was, those were really like gone. And you just, you know, a guy like Andrew Dice Clay was canceled. So everybody thinks this is all new. It's not new, it's a cycle that always happens. But there was really nothing where guys talked like guys. So I was far more interested in uh in a show about friendship than about Hollywood. Obviously, Hollywood is the backdrop and as a major part of the show. But when I started, I was really writing about guys I grew up with, my friends, things we went through, a little bit about my career, the ups and downs that I've had. And I started, you know, like any show, which, you know, uh you may or may not realize this until you sit down and try to write a show, but every good television show is a family in some way. So I really try to bring to it what is the family dynamics between these guys. And, you know, it's almost like drama's the the nagging mother, and you know, E's the father who tries to control things, and Vince is the chosen son who just has everything, and Turtle's the the cheerleader is gonna bring everybody up as much as he can. So, you know, that that's really what I started with, and um we went from there, you know.
SPEAKER_00You just touched a little bit about the characters. When you were developing those characters, Vince, E, Drama, Turtle, and Ari, how much came from the people you actually knew versus characters that you created from scratch?
SPEAKER_01A lot came from people I knew. It's interesting with Ari because I mean my agent was a guy named Jeff Jacobs, and uh, my first pitch to HBO, I had Jeremy Piven playing this guy, Jeff Jacobs. I didn't know who Ari was, I had never met him, but he was represented by Mark and Steve Levinson. The first time I ever met him was in the pitch in HBO, and he was so fucking dynamic and interesting that I was like, wait, this this is the character. So I really based that character on the start from the real Ari, even though there's a ton of myself in that character, and you know, his wife is named after my wife, my son played their son, and there's a lot of of E in me as well. So I took a lot of that, and then from other characters, there are elements of some of Mark's friends that I took and elements of of people I knew that I know, but you know, it's all a mishmash of things, you know.
SPEAKER_00Gotcha, gotcha. Is there a character people assume is based on one or specific person when the truth is it's much more complicated?
SPEAKER_01I mean, people think that, you know, Donnie Wahlberg has something to do with drama, which he has nothing to do with drama. Donnie Wahlberg is worth uh probably $200 million and is wildly successful and always has been. And, you know, so it was never based that anything to do with Mark having a brother who was less successful than him. It was really, you know, he's based on a kid I grew up with for the most part, character-wise, but Mark has a real Johnny drama. That was the initial start of it. Who is this fitness guru who's very funny and charismatic? So it started there, but then I really started taking elements of this guy I grew up with and some of the insecurities and things like that.
SPEAKER_00So Jeremy Pivin's character of Ari Gold became one of the defining television characters of that era. When did you realize that Ari had become something bigger than what you? Would originally had envisioned.
SPEAKER_01You know, I knew when I was asking Jeremy to do this, I didn't know if the show was gonna work. I I knew Jeremy I'd watched Larry Sanders was a big inspiration for me, and I had seen Jeremy in a number of things, and I just knew I could write for him. I knew how to like I knew what I could tap into with him, and we had to, you know, ask him to do the show. He, you know, it wasn't like we it was easy. He wanted to see everybody's, you know, who else was in it, he wanted to blah blah blah. So but the first day when I knew we had a show was there was a scene in the pilot with him and Kevin Connolly at a restaurant called Coit. And you know, I mean, look, every word is on the page, and I thought it was a good scene, but when those two went at each other, I was like, this is this is the central conflict of the show. It's this superstar, brilliant, powerful agent in Hollywood dealing with this extremely raw talent who he he doesn't want to be involved with, but he's gonna have to be. And who's gonna win to deal with this star? And then the show really is is this relationship and this loyalty issue gonna fuck up, you know, these guys who have it all on the palm of their hands. And you know, it's like when LeBron James did the show, and now you look at those guys who are all you know billionaires are on their way, people were laughing at LeBron. Like, how are you possibly bringing your maverick and Rich and all these guys around you? And um, that's that was before I ever met those guys and saw that situation, and that's what it really was. And I'm like, okay, this is like you put him in, you know, it's it's look, it speaks to a lot of stuff going on in America, you know. Not to get too dramatic about entourage, but he is, you know, a working-class kid from a neighborhood who worked at a pizza place who has an unbelievable talent. If he grew up in a rich neighborhood and his parents sent him to fucking Harvard, you know, he might have been R, you know, but he's not. So now he's in this spot where he gets a break and now he's gotta put everything he can into it and find a way in. So I knew we had a show that scene when we were at when they were doing it. I was like, this is gonna be unreal. I knew Pivin was gonna win an Emmy. I knew Kevin Dillon probably would. Um, and I just, you know, I you know, casting is a is a very big deal, and we happen to cast great.
SPEAKER_00So little little uh point for me in that scene right there where they're going back and forth at Koy, and Ari's trying to flex his muscle on the E. And all E does is he just turns to me and he goes, You ever fucking talk to me like that again, I'll smack you right here in the middle of Koi. And that right there, I was like, E is, you know, yeah, he's the small one, quote unquote. This guy is an 800-pound gorilla, you know, so it's like that's where the respect for me for E always grew, right there, because he went toe-to-toe with Ari.
SPEAKER_01And I mean, a lot of people always said, Oh, he was a pain in the ass character, but E and Kevin Connolly, they're like, you know, he's got this in his personality. They're they're little tough fighter guys that aren't backing down to anything. And those are kind of those are kids that I grew up with, and you know, it's definitely had inspiration from uh Goodwill Hunting as well. And I always saw that as like, you know, Matt Damon's character, who I, you know, to be honest with you, when when Goodwill Hunting came out, I never even realized Matt was like a big I always thought he was a little like guy. I didn't realize he was like because Matt's probably six, one sixty a big guy. But um, when that movie came out, I didn't realize he was kind of he was just the the scrappy guy. So it was definitely inspiration from that character as well, you know. Um, but that's what I wanted. I wanted a guy that is ready to fight at any time, and and a and a guy like Ari, who doesn't take fighting seriously? He's probably never had a fight in his life, you know.
SPEAKER_00So I gotcha. Entourage created a very specific era of Hollywood, the agencies, the movie stars, the nightlife, the celebrity culture. Looking at Hollywood in 2026, could that exact same show even exist today?
SPEAKER_01I mean, you know, everybody always asks this, but it's not about the exact same show. Of course, things would be different. I mean, first of all, you can't really, I mean, Ari's character is tame compared to what used to go on in agencies and the way that people used to speak to each other and the way that was acceptable. And, you know, it remains to be seen whether we'll head back in that direction at some point, because human nature is is that. And power, powerful people, they don't all of a sudden uh lose their emotional edge, which you know, but you know, in 2026, if Ari walked around his office like that and someone took a camera out, he'd obviously not be working anymore. So so things are very different. The camera, the phone changes everything, you know. The idea of a movie star is so different now. The idea of a movie star is changing by the minute. I mean, you know, you're looking at these guys who, you know, which some people are like, oh, what did they do to deserve? What did anyone do to deserve anything? You know what I mean? Like, what did what you know, what did like a supermodel deserve to make $10 million getting photographed that's different than an Instagram model who people started to love? So I don't look at it like that. I think talented people rise to the top, and we're now living in a world where you have so much more of an opportunity to not be gatekeeped by powerful situations. I mean, I even, again, I will always say I had very easy, lucky breaks that don't seem real when I think back about them now. But still, I made a short film that took 18 months that I could do today in 24 hours. It I had to walk around town with a VHS tape and beg people to watch it, where now you stick it on Instagram, and if people like it, it goes viral and your whole life changes overnight. So there are differences that would obviously change everything. But to me, again, the core theme of that show was about the friendships and the loyalties and that they care more about each other. I often think about, and there's been, you know, memes about friends, like what it would look like today. The phones are really the biggest thing. I mean, and I'm, you know, hoping that the world somehow turns back because what why looking around and walking around and watching everybody with their fucking phones in their faces, yeah, that's really the most different thing that I think you would see in this thing. You would just not see four guys actually communicate each other without someone being like, What'd you say? Blah, blah, blah. You know, so that that's the big change in the world right now.
SPEAKER_00What do you think Entourage accidentally documented about Hollywood that you didn't realize you were documenting at the time?
SPEAKER_01I was very thoughtful in thinking that I wanted to show Hollywood as exactly as it was. Right. Now, it didn't go into the dark, dark recesses of things. People said, Oh, you had Harvey Weinstein on. Why wasn't he uh assaulting anybody? I I didn't know he was assaulting people, so I didn't know about that. But what I try to show on a lighter way is, you know, it's a very power-hungry industry. And by the way, they all are. I hate when people say Hollywood is this, this, that. It's the same thing in hedge funds, it's the same thing in sports, same thing everywhere. But when you have a lot of money and you have a lot of good-looking people, and you have a lot of ugly people, there's gonna be a lot of things that happen. And I tried on a light version to show Hollywood as it was, you know, and that's what I thought I did. And I think people, especially at the time, thought it reflected Hollywood very well and very clearly. And again, I wanted to show guys who actually give a shit about each other because I think those that's how I grew up. My best friends are still from kindergarten, you know. So I think you don't, you know, you get that less from, you know, when you grow up in wealthy, wealthy neighborhoods, and but the working class, and again, I wasn't working class, I would call it a middle class town, but there were work very working class elements of my town and you know, mafiosa elements of my town and stuff like that. But but I mean, you just, you know, when you have those neighborhoods where the houses are on top of each other instead of Hollywood, you know, the mansions separated, you know, a lot of people have a different way that they grew up, and and those are still my best friends. So that's that's what I wanted to show more than anything.
SPEAKER_00And that you did. The show became enormously successful, but success also means suddenly everybody has an opinion about something that you've created. How did you personally handle the criticism that came along with Entourage?
SPEAKER_01Not well. I I really like I hate critics. And you know, now that you know Twitter's out now, I fucking write back to them because they're still criticizing us for some bizarre reason. I mean, we were very critically acclaimed when the show started. We were nominated for everything for years, and then there was a moment which I now see. You know, the whole Me Too moment movement and the whole PC culture started shifting. And the writers, because the New York Times called us the smartest show on television in 2003. And then, you know, you'll read stuff, you know, 15 years later from different writers who I I believe it's the writers and the POV of those Ivy League fucking cuts who came in with their absolute attitudes. And there's no actions that any of the characters in this show take that are bad. You know what I mean? They say stupid shit, they say off-color comments. But when you watch a show like The Sopranos, and and I don't care what anybody says, I feel like we were as good a half hour as they were as good a good hour. I don't, I don't, it doesn't matter. Everyone can go shut the fuck up.
SPEAKER_02I don't care.
SPEAKER_01But, you know, they murder people, they beat women, they say the N-word all the time. Right, you know, succession, and by the way, genius, one of my favorite shows of all time, succession. They're far more the words that come out of people's mouths in succession, but I guess because they're white people who hate each other's guts or the mafia, they're just evil people, it's okay. But because these guys were actually good guys, they can't make off-colored jokes that every guy in America makes. And now that I see young kids and not necessarily you, even younger, that are watching this show now. You know, it's just the the way people are and talk, especially when they're in private, they want to release Valve, they want to, you know, not feel like everybody's monitoring the words that are coming out their mouth. So, you know, I I don't like the criticism. It's fine, you know, and you have to, which I've never been good at, because I never expected the show to be received with the positivity it was. So if you if you want to feel good about that, you you know, you have to take it for what it's worth. But I as a rule, I hate critics, I hate agents, I hate all of them, you know.
SPEAKER_00Suits suck.
SPEAKER_01Yep, they really do.
SPEAKER_00There's something fascinating about what happens after someone achieves the thing they've spent years chasing. When Entourage ended and eventually the movie was finished, did you ever have a period of asking yourself, okay, what now?
SPEAKER_01You know what? I have a weird kind of vibe and career, and like after the show ended, you know, I had another show that I did, and I just I I just I was I was secretly praying for it not to go. I just didn't think I could do it again. Like, what again? I I only say this to justify because I know people say, oh, it's not that hard. For some people, maybe it's not. I put 13 years of my life into that show. I killed myself 24-7. I'm obsessive when I'm working, and I just think about it all day and all night. I walk around when I'm supposed to be with other people. So instead of a phone in my face, I'm thinking, what can Johnny Drama do today? What can, you know, and it it becomes obsessive. So when my next show, which I never could have imagined, HBO was not gonna let me shoot a season of, which is still talking crazy to me. Um, but I I was like, I don't know if I can do this again. I think I'll drop dead. So I I never, weirdly enough, I never really thought about like what's my career, what's now, what's this. I've just never kind of been like that. So when the show ended, I was like, all right, I guess I'll write something new now. I don't know. So I've never had a like a which you should, by the way. You know I've never had like a strong, here's my plan, here's my goal. And I never really thought of myself as like having a career. I just thought like each project, I do the best I can and we see what happens with it. You know what I mean? That's kind of by the way, not a not a smart way to be, but it was.
SPEAKER_00You've been very candid over the years about some of the frustrations you've had with Hollywood. What do you understand about this business today that the younger Dungella desperately needed to have understood?
SPEAKER_01I think I understood it then. I mean, just it's what I said. I don't think anything's changed in my understanding. It's it is a town of what did you do for me lately? And on some level, you get that. It's also a town of very scared people who are trying to feed their families and make their own careers, and they're far more concerned with themselves than they are with you, which is again any business. Um, so I there's nothing that I've gotten new. The thing that I always know, and you have to work every day. If you want to be a writer, every day wake up, fucking dress up, go to a room and be a writer. I honestly never really thought of myself as a writer. I was like, I don't know what I do. I like I want to I want to act, I want to talk, I want to do this, I want to do that. So I just I did I did what I saw in front of me when I thought of an idea that I liked, I I pursued that. Um so it's not a new thought, but I think the most important thing anyone can do once you get into businesses that are difficult like this is focus, pick your goal, and do nothing but work on that goal. And you know, that's all that's all I guess. But I I I've always known that. I just haven't always acted upon it, you know.
SPEAKER_00When you wanted to act, you did some guest appearances within Entourage on a few occasions.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Did the itch ever come to you to maybe write yourself a little bit of a bigger part?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I you know, I I in my next show I read for a part that was actually the best written part in the show that I had a really hard time casting. And I just the the I did a pilot with uh Charlie Sheen and Kevin Connolly and Kevin Dillon. Like at first, I'm like, I'll play this Kevin Connolly part, you know, and then I'm just like I put myself on tape and I looked at it objectively, and I'm just like, I'm just not as good. And I know how to make the words better for them than I do for myself. Um, so now part of that also, because even if you look at Larry David, who was probably my idol, you could see how much better he got in curb from season one to season five. So maybe I would have improved, but I I didn't I didn't look at myself when I saw myself on tape and went, wow, you're really fucking wasting a great opportunity here.
SPEAKER_00So I gotta be honest because I wasn't familiar yet, you know, because when I was young and when I was up and coming and like watching the show, I didn't realize that you were the creator. Yeah, and I knew it. I'm like, it's the director guy again because you were always in the casting sessions, you were always the casting director. So so I was all like, oh man, this guy must be like a director or something out there. Something. You eventually launched Victory the Podcast with Kevin Dylan, who played drama, Kevin Connolly, who played E, and built a direct relationship with an audience. Did podcasting give you something creatively that television and film never did?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, everything. I mean, I I'm honestly like still talking to these guys about why we're not doing this right now. And you know, I do my own, but it's as you know, it's tough. Um, and we were getting so much traction with that one. But I love podcasting. When I look back at my life, I'm like, I always thought about like being a talk show host, but I never actually understood where the the path to that even was. But when I look back, I think the thing that, you know, stand-up was a very natural thing for me, but I hated the lifestyle. It just was not something I I enjoyed being in a club late at night. I don't really like comedians, and I don't mean like watching them. I mean as humans when you're off stage and they're still doing their fucking acts and they're attention seeking all the time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But I think like, you know, when I look back, if I could have, if I would have done anything differently, I would have focused on before there was podcasting, how I how I get my voice out there with my own voice. And it wasn't gonna be through acting, but I think that podcasting was probably my most natural calling, to be honest with you.
SPEAKER_00You spend your career writing dialogue for other people. Podcasting puts your personality and opinions directly in front of the audience. Was that adjustment never uncomfortable for you?
SPEAKER_01No. No, far less the far less uncomfortable than writing. And and writing dialogue was never a problem for me. That was always very easy for me. It was coming up with storylines and you know, figuring out how to get everybody together and then they're apart and this and this and that. It's it's it's a grind.
SPEAKER_00You've experienced rejection, massive success, criticism, projects that didn't happen, and reinvention. Which taught you more about yourself, the success or the disappointment?
SPEAKER_01You know, this sounds ridiculous, but I think if you ask anyone who knows me, nothing's ever changed me. I didn't feel much different during success than I felt during failure. I I never walked around like, hey, hey, hey, I'm fucking, I got a hit show. Just it's not me. So I have always kind of thought the same thing, like, okay, what's tomorrow? Because you know, yesterday really doesn't matter that much. So none of it. I honestly, I mean, I said I think that sounds crazy, but I've been the same jaded person for 40 years. I always thought this business was kind of like you need a lot of luck and you gotta grind away. And if you stop grinding, you're never gonna find the luck, but the luck may go away anyway. So you just don't know.
SPEAKER_00Gotcha. After everything you've accomplished, what still motivates you creatively? Is there something that you haven't made yet that you feel you need to make? No.
SPEAKER_01I wish I I wish I could say that. I wish I had this project I've been working on for 30 years. I always dream, I just don't, I don't. I I I would like to get back to doing podcasting, and I would like to figure out how to make that viable. And I don't mean make a lot of money doing it, but have some have some value with it where there's an audience for it. But I don't sit around never thinking, god damn, I need to write that script that I've been dreaming about since I was a kid. I've never thought that.
SPEAKER_00One more question, and we'll get into a little bit of uh some little bit of rapid fire questions. If you could sit across yourself from the version of yourself who first came to Hollywood, the guy who has no idea that Entourage, HBO, Emmys, Golden Globes, movies, podcasts, and all that is ahead of him. What would you tell him about the journey he's about to take?
SPEAKER_01Enjoy the journey. Because it's a it's about the journey, not the success, the rewards, those things they didn't they didn't matter when I look back at the amount of times I was under such stress over things that probably didn't matter and that ultimately worked out. But like I always say at the same time, maybe they wouldn't have been as good as if I if I didn't kill myself to do that. I you'll never know, but I think it's really important that you enjoy the journey and you don't constantly think about the destination, you know.
SPEAKER_00Love that advice. All right, got a couple questions here for you. And these are like as fan questions, not from me, but kind of from you. Who is on your Mount Rushmore when it comes to comedies, all-time comedies?
SPEAKER_01Woody Allen, Albert Brooks, John Cleese, Larry David, Barry Levinson.
SPEAKER_00And comedy films, who's on the Mount Rushmore?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's so many, but I was talking about Airplane today, but there's so many. I mean, you know, there's so many, I mean, e even Wolf of Wall Street, which I just watched, is honestly one of the funniest movies ever. And I had that book before anybody. Jordan's a friend of mine for a long time. Um, but Airplane and Mel Brooks, all his movies, um, Woody Allen, I I would have to think so many. I've actually put lists on Instagram of my favorite comedy movies of all time, but there's there's a lot.
SPEAKER_00And this is gonna be just a very cheesy fan question from Mayan. Do you have a favorite episode of Entourage that you either wrote or shot?
SPEAKER_01Well, I mean, there's a couple of the like most of the favorite things that go back to, like the personal stuff behind it. Like U2 was my birthday. We were shooting U2 with Bono, you know, and for some reason they've turned on U2, who I love, but whatever. But um Bono saying happy birthday to Johnny Drama is one of the great moments of my life. Being at Yankee Stadium with my children and all of my high school friends in the stands while we're filming there, you know.
SPEAKER_00Um the infamous A-rod scene.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Larry and Mark DeShera. Larry David, you know, who really was the only person who showed up on this set. I've had idols, Martin Scorsese, James Cameron, you know. Larry David was weirdly enough, is the guy that I was like a little like nervous to even speak to, even though I'm like the boss. Um, but those are moments that I remember Val Val Kilmer. Um, but a lot of things are more personal than the episodes, like what happened in the episodes or anything. Like I think about the great moments I had.
SPEAKER_00Oh man. Uh you talked about Larry David. Was there anybody else that gave you that sort of a fanboy, whether it was an athlete or somebody through the entertainment industry?
SPEAKER_01I mean Scorsese and and James Cameron, like having them do my words, having you know, having James Cameron like talk about my script or Aaron Sorkin. He's like, you write so naturally. Yeah, it meant a lot to me. Matt Damon, who literally sat down at a lunch table with me and recited a Ari dialogue verbatim, like word for word. I was like, A, he's a genius, but B, it was obviously made me feel very good that you know he thought those words were good enough to waste his energy. I don't know how quickly he could do it. Goodwill hunting. I guess he is in reality.
SPEAKER_00Mr. Ellen, I do thank you so much. We do thank you for taking the time to be able to have a word with us. This has been the greatest day in the history of this podcast. I mean, I could shut production down tomorrow, and I'm still gonna be like, this is it, this is great.
SPEAKER_01Keep it rolling, man. Yeah. Appreciate it. Be good.
SPEAKER_00How about that, guys? How'd you like it? I hope you guys loved listening to it as much as we did recording that. What a story. What an incredible story. From coming out to a place never experienced, never lived in, to in a mail room to taking some chances, taking a few swings, believing in yourself, never quitting, and now as a part of pop culture history. I am proud to say that I was around to see that firsthand. I mean, not to sound too much of like a fandom, even though I did, and I still do, and I'm damn proud of that. But Entourage played a big part in getting me through some dark days. And that may sound dramatic. And alright, Gus, the checks in the mail already. No, it's just the truth of it. I was going through in Entourage's heyday, I was going through some rough times. And when it was on for those 30 minutes, the boys, Ari, Vinny, E, Drama, Turtle, and the rest of the incredible cast of characters that Entourage had, all thanks to Doug, were able to make my problems go away for about 30 minutes every Sunday night. And then once I was able to afford to buy the DVD cases and everything like that, it was a rap. I was watching Entourage 24-7. Now we're here, and oh, that was just a great episode. Great episode. And I don't know if you guys heard me smiling from ear to ear, but I was the entire time. So, Mr. Ellen, once again, thank you very much for allowing us to have that word. It was awesome. Like I said, Mountain Rushmore when it comes to my episodes on this thing, which every episode's on the Mountain Rushmore. All right, guys, that's gonna do it for the episode today. Thank you very much for your support. Once again, you guys can always find it on Apple, Spotify, Amazon. Check this out. I got this email from Buzz Sprout the other day, and it gives me my statistics breakdown because of all the episodes, the Elwyn Lopez episode doing big numbers. Thank you so much for all that. Noel Sanchez episode, still doing great numbers. Thank you, everybody, that's tuning in. They told me that Amazon Alexa is the number one producer, so to speak, of my podcast. The majority of my episodes, the largest number coming out of where my podcast is listened to is from Amazon Alexa. That is hysterical, followed by Apple Podcasts. Shout out, Alexa. Love you, girl. Alright, guys, that'll do it for this episode. As always, I'm your host, Gustavo Montes. This has been the Man Have a Word Podcast. I will catch you guys next week for another incredible interview. Thank you very much for your guys' support. I love you. You guys stay safe, wash your hands, and I'll see you next week. Love ya.