Disordered: Anxiety Help
Disordered: Anxiety Help
Asking For Anxiety Help (Episode 156)
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Asking for help can be difficult, especially when you are struggling with anxiety, panic disorder, OCD, or agoraphobia. In this episode, Drew and Josh break down the nuances of asking for anxiety help. There is a fine line between asking for genuine support and looking for compulsive reassurance or soothing to make the discomfort disappear.
Drew and Josh discuss why so many people feel like a burden when asking for support and how anxiety often twists the desire for help into a demand for certainty. You will learn how to shift away from asking for short-term fixes and instead ask for the encouragement and reminders you need to tolerate difficult feelings and build long-term psychological flexibility.
The guys also share inspiring "Did It Anyway" stories from the community, demonstrating how learning to accept discomfort—and sometimes even choosing to do less or rest—is a vital part of the recovery journey.
- Reassurance vs. Support: Understanding the difference between asking for tools to cope and asking for temporary soothing to make the feelings go away.
- Overcoming the "Burden" Myth: Why anxiety makes you feel like an inconvenience and how to reframe asking for help as a step toward growth.
- Asking for Encouragement over Certainty: How requesting reminders of your past success and capability can help you step into feared situations.
- The Courage to Do Less: Why sometimes the best way to do it anyway is to give yourself permission to rest and step off the productivity treadmill.
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Want to talk about this episode, interact with us, and communicate with others that are sharing your experience? We're hanging out in the Disordered Community Space
https://disordered.fm/community
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The Disordered Guide to Health Anxiety is available now:
https://www.disordered.fm/the-disordered-guide-to-health-anxiety/
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Struggling with worry and rumination that you feel you can't stop or control? Check out Worry and Rumination Explained, a two hour pre-recorded workshop produced by Josh and Drew.
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Got questions or did it anyways to share? Send us an email or voicemail on our website.
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Disclaimer: Disordered is not therapy or a replacement for therapy. Listening to Disordered does not create a therapeutic relationship between you and the hosts or guests of the podcast. Information here is provided for psychoeducational purposes. As always, please consult your mental health and/or medical care providers. If you are having a mental health crisis, always reach out immediately for in-person help.
Asking for help sometimes is hard. People are embarrassed to ask for help. Sometimes they're ashamed that they're a little bit resensitized. There's the am I asking for help or am I asking for compulsive reassurance and soothing?
SPEAKER_02When I understood my anxiety, my asking for help was asking for support. Help take these feelings away, save me. Help me be my cheerleader, supporting, reminding me, having a different perspective of how I'm doing, believing in me.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I think that's cool. Can you remind me that I can do hard things? Can you remind me that I can tolerate these feelings? Can you remind me how well I've been doing? And there's a reason for that because I've been flexing my tolerance muscles.
SPEAKER_02We've got people constantly asking for help to the point where they're doing everyone's heading. And then you've got the other side, which is I'm so petrified of asking for help. Like I don't want people to see me as a burden. Asking for certainty will get you nowhere. Asking for encouragement will get you everywhere. Welcome to Disordered. This is episode 156 entitled How to Ask for Help. I'm Joshua Fletcher, also known as Anxiety Josh, and I'm a psychotherapist who specializes in anxiety and anxiety disorders, having also been a previous sufferer of OCD and pain disorder, and agrophobia, health anxiety, etc. I'm looking forward to talking about this subject today because it's a nuanced one. How to ask for help uh when we're anxious. And I'm joined by my esteemed co-host.
SPEAKER_03Yes, from across the Atlantic. I'm Drew Linsolata, the other half of Disordered. Uh, with that guy said, also a therapist that specializes in treating anxiety disorders and former sufferer of these things, and an author and clearly a podcaster because I'm here. And uh yeah, we're gonna we're gonna record an episode. We haven't recorded in a couple of weeks, so I'm happy to be back. And this is one of my favorite hours of the week for sure. And today we're gonna talk about how to ask for help.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's a good it's a good question. And it was uh it was suggested by a member of the disorder community, and I thought, yeah, you know, we thought that's a really good topic. Uh how to ask for help. Um, it's a short episode. You just sit there and go, help. Q the piano. We'll finish now. Thanks for listening.
SPEAKER_03We'll be back next week, guys.
SPEAKER_02Now help. Really get some good like peril and helplessness in there as well.
SPEAKER_03Like, help help. Um but you know, it's funny. Like in most of life, yeah, you would just say, hey, a little help. You know, you're carrying something heavy or whatever, like, hey, help. It's easy. In this context, asking for help sometimes is hard. There's a for like a lot of different reasons. Sometimes people are embarrassed to ask for help, sometimes they're ashamed that they're they're in a setback or whatever, they're a little bit resensitized. And there's the am I asking for help or am I asking for compulsive reassurance and soothing?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, we can come at it from two angles, can't we? Yeah. Am I asking for help as a reassurance, like you just said, or I'm so emotionally conservative, asking for help is shameful, and I'm doing this alone and hidden in the shadows, and that also doesn't help either.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think it's kind of both of those things. How would you ask for help? How did you ask for help? And also, by the way, there's like a zillion places to ask for help. How to ask your therapist, how to ask your friends, your family had to ask online in uh online support peep place or whatever that sort of stuff. So, how did you do it?
SPEAKER_02I asked for help. I mean, yeah, I started through the the usual channels of like my my family didn't like they tried to help, but they didn't quite understand it. Uh, and then I asked my doctor for help, which is you know, I recommend everyone do that, you know, even if you know they well, that's the first place or uh point of call. Um, but I think in the midst of it, when I understood my anxiety, my asking for help was asking for support. So just being like, if someone asked me how I was, I'd be like, yeah, I'm I'm feeling pretty scary right now. I'm having scary what-if thoughts, odd sensations, um, and and feelings that are really quite, you know, make me feel very uneasy and frightened. Um, and my asking for help eventually was, you know, can you just like you don't need to make a big deal out of it, but you just, you know, acknowledge that I'm here, you know, like act normal, stuff like that, support me, but uh believe in me for me to get through the difficult feelings. I think back when I didn't know what an anxiety disorder was, I would plead for help. I'd be like, can you please take this feeling away? Can you please give me the magic pill, the magic uh technique? Um, take it away. Um, I had a brief stint with monophobia, and my help was don't leave me. You know, don't leave me. Whereas after learning about an anxiety disorder, help was listen, can you I'd like to practice being on my own for a bit. Uh so some good help would be, you know, come back and laugh an hour or something and allow me to start to do brave things, you know, and and and help. Also, help is like, can we like reflect? And this is what I do as a therapist a lot of the time, particularly with lots of people with Craig the critic, is that we reflect on how far you've come. So that's help.
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's help is like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because everyone's like, oh, I'm this, I'll never get over this, yada yada yada. Actually, no, look how far you've come, look what you've managed to achieve. That's also a form of help. So it depends what the help is. Help take these feelings away, save me. Help me be my cheerleader, supporting, reminding me, having a different perspective of how I'm doing, believing in me.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I think that's cool. Yeah, uh reminder, asking to be reminded, that is a great way to ask for help. I think it depends on where you are, and I'm gonna use a word that I hate in the journey, right? Or along the line, the timeline. If you're new, tell us about your journey. Oh, the journey. Let's talk about the journey. Um, I I think if this is if you're new to this, you stumbled upon this episode of disordered, and you don't know what's happening to you, then the way you're gonna ask for help is gonna be very different. Like, what is this? What the hell is going on with me? Why do I have these feelings? Why can't I control my thoughts? Why am I so easily triggered? Why am I doing these rituals? You have to I you don't even know what it is. So it's fine. Their help is like, what is this? Am I okay? Am I gonna be okay? Can we can we figure out what this is? That's usually the first way we ask for help. When you're further down the road and you now kind of know what it is and you know what you sort of have to do, sometimes it's I kind of forgot what I have to do. Can you guys remind me? Can you remind me that I can do hard things? Can you remind me that I can tolerate these feelings? Can you remind me how well I've been doing? And there's a reason for that because I've been flexing my tolerance muscles. So I love with a therapy client, like, hey, let's let's look at where you've been. I will often say stuff like, Hey, when we first started working together eight months, a year ago, whatever it was, do you remember when you couldn't? Or do you remember when you refused to? And they'll be like, Oh, oh yeah. Yeah, you're right. I'm like, so d tell me again how you're stuck. So sometimes that can be really helpful. Um but then there's the the fear that I always have, or and and I think it's it's good because it's a community this was posted in the disordered community, and it's it gave me a little bit of like a flashback to my old Facebook days when my Facebook group was really active, and we worked so hard. You used to pick on us, we have snipers on the roof in that group. We've worked so hard to to try to funnel people into asking for help in a more productive way because left alone when somebody's scared, and I don't blame anybody, they're gonna want to rush in and say and go back to the beginning of like, what is this? Is this just anxiety? Am I safe? Is this gonna kill me? Am I gonna go crazy? They just want to ask again the questions they used to ask in the first few days, which is normal in the first few days, but at some point we reck we have to recognize, oh, I I I those aren't the questions to ask anymore.
SPEAKER_02No. Asking for certainty will get you nowhere. Asking for encouragement will get you everywhere. Yeah. I like I like asking for encouragement.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. Can you guys remind me that you know I have to do hard things right now, and I can do that? You know, speaking of doing hard things, I can see we're still we're doing the same segue. We do you you want to hear somebody do a hard thing? Yes. Yeah, let's do it.
SPEAKER_01Hi, Drew and Josh. This is Katrina, and you can use my name. Over the past few months, I've been working on my avoidance tendencies, thanks to you guys and my therapist, and myself too, give myself some credit there. And there was a concert a couple of weeks ago that I was both really looking forward to and also dreading. Um, sure, you know, a lot of listeners can relate to that feeling. Um, but I did it anyway. Um, the ride down there was was rough and full full disclosure there. Um I do have anxiety, just even being in a car, especially on busy, busy roads. Um but my husband and I made it to the venue, and the show was incredible. It was so much fun. It's probably the first time in a couple of years that I fully felt like non-anxious me in a setting like that, meaning a very loud rock concert, um, which non-anxious me really enjoys, but anxious me not so much. Um, but I had a total blast. It was just a fully immersive, fun show. So I just want to thank you guys for everything you do and share this one with you guys. Oh, it was Alice Cooper that we went to see. I know Josh likes to know who the the concert was and everything. Anyway, thank you guys so much. I appreciate it.
SPEAKER_03School's out for the summer, bitches.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's awesome. Well done.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_02Uh well, great. Exposure on many levels, you know, the senses, the the driving the long way, the louds, the loudness being in the concert. And if you've got contamination OCD, exposure to poison. Poison running through my veins. Poison. Sorry.
SPEAKER_03You're you slid in a song better than I did. Uh mine was very abrupt. So that was really great. No, you're 100% right. You know, actually exposure to poison. I'll leave you to do the singing. At a concert, sometimes, you know, people tend to engage in activities at concerts that anxious people get really so oh no, I could smell somebody is smoking particular substances close to me. And what if that triggers me? And what if like so that a lot of anxious people are common that one isn't? Oh, very um, yeah, with smelling weed, you know, like they're so afraid to go to the concert because what if somebody is smoking weed near me and it triggers me, and then I my brain explodes. And so good job, Katrina. Thank you for sharing that. Very inspiring. Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper's a legend, man. He's still going at it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's really cool. That's really cool. Uh let's address why people may be reluctant to ask for help because they feel like there may perhaps be a burden or I don't want to bring people down. I hear that quite a lot. So that's on the other side of the spectrum. You've got people constantly asking for help to the point where they're doing everyone's heading. Yeah, and then you've got the other side, which is I I'm so petrified of asking for help. Like, I don't want people to see me as a burden.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I I think it it can be difficult because I guess it depends on how you come into the experience. If you're already reluctant to like, I don't want to inconvenience anybody. And there are people who kind of live their lives based on that theme in many ways. I I want to be polite, either it's just politeness or they try to be very courteous, or they feel like, no, no, no, no. I am in I'm legitimately an inconvenience and a problem. And now when I'm afraid of my own body and mind, boy, I'm really a problem, especially if there's some part of them that understands this isn't right. I I don't have I shouldn't be afraid of this. Yet I am, so I know I'm asking for a rational help, you know. And I guess if somebody was in true danger, it might be a little easier to ask for help, but we know that something's not right about this. Wait a minute. I keep having a scary thought, and I and I want to keep asking you about that. So I am being a burden.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it it comes up a lot, honestly. Like, not but particularly that people-pleasing response, you know, this this this will put me in a different way. Someone kindly shared in the in the studio audience, you know, I hate to ask for help so much because I feel like a bother. I got two flat tires one day and called Uber to bring me home instead of asking a friend for a ride, you know, right? It's completely okay to ask for a friend, you know, like um my car's stuck. Can you come pick me up? No, no, no, I don't want to inconvenience anyone else.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So if you can you imagine that if that's too much of an inconvenience, then maybe you know, when you're asking someone like, actually, you know what, I have agrophobia, OCD. This place or scenario makes me feel scared. Can you, you know, whether it's part of graded exposure, you know, like I've not been here for years. Will you come with me so I can do it as part of a stepping stone to get to my exposures? That's okay. Yeah, I love doing stuff like that. You know, help is doing that. Yes, ultimately at the end of exposures and and anxiety, you want to get through a tricky thing and you get the credit for it. The brain needs to do it. That's the end goal. But if someone's helping you get out of the house or get in the car or go somewhere and start to make your world bigger, that's okay too. But don't let the end of it, the end goal is to be like, I can tolerate discomfort, get the credit, and do it on my own. Uh, but help on the way is also great for that too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I you know, I think it speaks to another aspect of the recovery or desensitization process. So many times we get stuck trying to feel different without acting different. And so if you have to ask a friend or a whoever, somebody to support you, say in exposure, hey, can you come with me on this walk the first few times? You are acknowledging or admitting I am afraid in this situation. I am nervous, I am anxious in this situation. And often we try to approach desensitization or recovery by just trying to not feel afraid or anxious. So uh actually just saying out loud to the universe and the person next to you who maybe is close to you and will support and love you, hey, I'm really afraid. I know I shouldn't be afraid to take a walk, or I know it doesn't make any sense, but I am right now and I have to start there. So it can be even harder to ask for that kind of support because I don't even I don't I'm trying to not be afraid. I don't want to tell somebody I'm afraid and admit it and and live in that. So I get that. Multiple obstacles, right? I I see comment in the studio audience, you know, there's no point, also, there's no point in asking for help because no one else is going to understand. I think that that's an obstacle to asking for help. But what do you think about that? They're not going to understand.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well, they followed up with well, people who haven't experienced terrible terrible anxiety can sympathize but can't empathize. And often that's good enough to be helpful. I'd love that follow-up. Oh, very good. I understand. Often the intent, often, often the intention to follow up and stuff. Someone trying. Back when I was in the midst of anxiety disorders, my friends just trying. So they'd ask, and they'd be like, rather than put me down, or have you tried ice packs and mindfulness and no, they'd be like, What you know, what can I do to help? And and actually that did empower me. But like, actually, yeah, you know, if you I'd often say, Can you guys just act like everything's normal because it makes me feel a little more normal? They're like, Yeah, cool. You look fine, dude. You know, it's it's all good. Um yeah, ask that's kind of asking for help, just like or that belief that I can be okay. Yeah, you know, I remember once saying to a loved one, you know, I'm having a massive anxiety episode now, panic attack. And I just need you to, like, you know, I'm alright, but I'd like you to maybe kind of remind me that I I can get through this, you know. And and and they did they're like, Yeah, I've seen you on loads of these, this will pass, dude. Yeah, you know, and yeah, okay, it's a bit of reassurance seeking, but you know what, sometimes we're human and that's all right. Now I'm now I don't need to ring anyone. I know what a panic attack is, but while I'm practicing and being curious and and and doing all that, that's okay. You know, if every time I my anxiety goes over five out of ten and I have to ring my mum or ring a friend or ring ring my partner because I I don't it it's gone into the red zone and the unacceptable zone, then no, that becomes compulsive and stuff like that. But um, yeah, it it's it's quite nuanced asking for help. Like I'd rather you like, if you're walking through the park on your own, and we were thinking of doing this as a title, uh episode title as well, and something that I maybe we'll talk talk talk about next time. If I'm panicking on my own in a in a park, even now, I'm gonna I'm not I'm gonna be like, what's better to focus on? You know, these horrendous racing thoughts and feelings, or just I don't know, I've not chatted to my mate for a while. I'll ring my mate, Sean, how's he doing? Yeah, you know, how are you doing? And I'm not going, Sean, talk me down, talk me down. I'm going, Sean, how are you? Yeah, I'm all right. Yeah, I'm just walking through the park, whatever, heart's racing, but whatever. You know, what's been going on? And the curiosity. In a way, that's kind of help, but it's kind of like, nah, I've got this. There's just something more interesting to do than how I feel.
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean, like even before you said, like, hey, you know, I'm I'm having a panic attack, can you just remind me that I can do this? I don't even think that's reassurance seeking. Like, yeah, can you just remind me that I I am capable of tolerating this? It's very different than I'm having a panic attack. Can you tell me again for the 10,000th time that I won't have a psychotic break, or I'm not having a stroke, or I don't need the ER, or you're gonna save me. That we we start there, but we have to shift out of that. And then asking for help with, like, oh yeah, I'm having a panic attack. Can you just remind me that I can handle this? And the ideal response you want from your loved one, from your friend, whoever, from your online community support group is essentially that like, hey, we know that you're genuinely scared right now. I know this is really hard, but we're cheering for you. You can get through this. You you have you have done it before and you can do it again now. So, yeah, we're not talking about the content at all. No, no, no, that's just anxiety. You won't go crazy, you're not gonna die, you're not dying. No, no, no. I know you're scared. You can handle being scared. We've seen you do it.
SPEAKER_02So Yeah, I like that a lot. Would you like a did it anyway?
SPEAKER_03Of course I would. I'm never gonna turn one of those down.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Uh, this one's from Germany. Dear Drew and Josh, this is Joe, a big fan of your podcast from Germany. Guten Abend. You get? Feel free to use my name. First of all, million thanks for your podcast. It's been a game changer in dealing with my anxiety in CAD. Not only has it given me words to describe my experience, but also tools to make my life much nicer. Plus, I often laugh out loud listening to your transatlantic banter. Well, thank you, that's nice. Sometimes Drew's funny. Today, I want to share a did it anyway. I'm currently experiencing a lot of transitions in my life. Some of them are positive, but thanks to you, I know that positive stress also fills up the stress jar. It definitely does. And this has led to some resensitization. Faced with these changes, I find it hard not to keep working on my to-do list, and my mind keeps going over all the things I still need to take care of. This makes rest difficult, which in turn keeps my stress level high, augmenting my exhaustion and anxiety. Today the pattern repeated. I had a day off, and a part of me badly wanted to simply chill, but a different voice kept telling me that I should be busy. I was restless and irritated, feeling the urge to work, while at the same time resenting that I could not switch off. It was at that moment that it occurred to me that the voice pestering me was my good old friend anxiety in disguise. It kept threatening me that if I rested, I would not finish all the tasks. They would overwhelm me, horrible things would happen as a consequence, etc. Once I realized this, I knew what to do. I got hold of a book, went to bed, and spent the entire day doing nothing. I love this. It wasn't pure enjoyment because my anxiety kept describing all the catastrophes that would happen as a result of my laziness, in air quotes. But I did what my non-anxious self would do. I got some rest. So what I've learned today is that sometimes doing it anyway means doing less or nothing. Weird as it may sound, it took some real courage on my part to rest. But now I'm really happy that I did it. Many thanks to you and the disordered community. Bye now from my couch.
SPEAKER_03Oh, Joe, that's awesome. Joe gets a sequence of this because first you're being lazy is it's Craig the critic. But then she gets that was a sound effects tour de force right there. That was awesome.
SPEAKER_02Love that one. Why? Because it was drenched in compassion. Absolutely. And Craig the critic, you're right, is screaming. You're like, no. When you say do what non-anxious you would do, you took that to the next level, to the compassionate level, to actually know I'm tired. I've moved, I've got all these changes, I'm exhausted, and I'm on the hamster wheel. You know, all the people in this in this community, they get on the hamster wheel and they try to get out of things by doing more, doing recovery, doing exposure, doing things, to-do list, productivity, feeling good, temporary, conditional, you know, metrics of value. And you zoomed out, you spotted it, Joe, and you're like, no, non-anxious me would just get in better the book and rest for the for the love of God. And you did. You know, Von der Bar. Absolutely. Yeah, brilliant.
SPEAKER_03On on multiple levels, it's really, really good. And you know, it speaks to somebody in our studio audience said, Yeah, I've been treating my recovery like a procedure manual. Sometimes we could get trapped into doing acceptance. I'm doing recovery. Oh, I feel a thing again. So, like, I have to do something, I have to do a recovery thing. Listen to a podcast, read a book, uh, I don't know, do something. No, no, no. Actually, what you got to recognize is can you guys remind me that I've been tricked into staring at how I feel? And my job is to stop doing that and return to my life as best I can. So, yeah, doing less, man. Doing less is harder, I think, sometimes. It's sneaky. You don't know.
SPEAKER_02Sorry, I'm just saying. I think that means are you rested? If it doesn't, I'm sorry if I've insulted your family really smoke.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. Farfic new go. That's how I just that was that is that a thing? So uh you know while we're at it, have a good point. What did we just call my grandma? What? She but she was no such thing, sir. Like, take that back. Uh speaking of did it anyway, let's do another audio.
SPEAKER_00Hi, Josh and Drew. Hope that you're really well. And thanks so much for this podcast and everything that you do. I so appreciate it, as I know so many people do. It's been so helpful to me. I just wanted to share a did it anyway. On Thursday, I had a meeting in a conference room that is pretty much my worst nightmare. It's glass walls and there's no air conditioning, and so it's really hot, and everyone can see in. And I had a meeting there last year where I was really, really struggling with panic, and I've been doing a lot of exposure and doing a bit better now. And I was so nervous about it, I was so anxious about going in all the train there. I was like, what if I have a panic attack? What will I do? And I did it anyway, and I was really hyper-vigilant of what was happening in my body. I was still getting palpitations, I was still struggling with air hunger, and I was still feeling quite shaky and hot. And heat sensitivity is a really difficult one for me. I loved your podcast on that. Um, and I did it anyway, and it was so long as a meeting, and I was just really proud of myself for willfully tolerating all of those physical symptoms and just being like, nope, this is something that you can learn from, and this is something you can work through. And when you're done, I'm gonna go get a pint of cider in a local pub and really um just congratulate myself for that. And I was listening to the podcast on the way in as well, which I found really, really helpful, and yeah, feeling really proud of that, and just wanted to share that with people. Even those situations that can be your worst nightmare, you absolutely can do them, and you can go back to a place where you've had a panic attack before and you can do it again. Thanks so much.
SPEAKER_03Returning to the scene of the crime is always hard. Oh, I panic in that room. I can't go in there.
SPEAKER_02I love that. Bet I bet that cider tasted banging as well. It's always better when you're like, oh, there we go. That would loved it.
SPEAKER_03That would be cold, right? Do you drink the cider warm too? Because that sounds awful.
SPEAKER_02Uh mostly cold, yeah. In Somerset in the West Country, they sometimes drink warm, scrumpy cider. Oh, good goodness. Um, I once did that and I don't remember.
SPEAKER_03I don't remember. That was really awesome. I love that. I think it's really hard for people, you know, our listeners and members of the community to go back to the scene of the crime. Ooh, I mean, it literally makes part of what builds the disordered state is like, no, I was uncomfortable there, so I don't go there. I was uncomfortable there, I don't go there anymore. Like I had a panic attack in that conference room, can't go in that conference room.
SPEAKER_02Love it. It's it's the again, the pride and compassion. The more, what the more I work and study anxiety disorders and stuff. It's the things that all those really dry empirical studies tell you about, you know, like CBT exposure and stuff like that. But there's no real kind of measure of like, you have to be your friend while doing this, you know. They went into this meeting, the scene of the crime, the original thing. Your amygdala must have been firing off with machine guns and rocket launchers and flamethrowers going, and you were like, No, I'm practicing willful tolerance, and I'm allowed to be vulnerable, I'm allowed to have these symptoms. And it's going, you gotta and you're like, no, no, I'm all right, I'm alright. And then you get through it, and you get through it, and then it peaks, and it comes down, and you're like, wow, I did it with panic. Probably the same amount of panic than last time, but this time I was equipped, I was educated, I was kind, and I gave myself a pat on the back afterwards. I love it, I love it, I love it.
SPEAKER_03It's that shift over time from like I can't too much can't handle to yeah, sucks, but can handle, and therefore I am no longer afraid of that happening. I'm not afraid of the thought coming in, I'm not afraid of the bodily sensations anymore. Like I don't want them, I don't like them, but I don't have to hit the panic button when this guy does. Amygdala. So, you know, it's really awesome. Hey, we haven't hit buttons. 156 episodes of the same sound effect. Yeah, that one's never going away.
SPEAKER_02Never going away.
SPEAKER_03Every once in a while, be in like a therapy session with a client and they do their best amygdala impression. It's always great when it's a woman, too, because they, you know, hire voices and they're still doing amygdala.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02We we always we've always threatened to do some branded merch. I'd like to do that.
SPEAKER_03We are dropping the ball. How do we not have amygdala t-shirts and stuff?
SPEAKER_02Disordered at just two shirts. You can have the disorder loco or just amygdala.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Can we put a little TM trade? Can we trademark the word amygdala? I mean, why not?
SPEAKER_02No, I don't think we can trademark a part of the brain.
SPEAKER_03Well, let me call a US patented trademark. If no one's done it, we're doing it. Too bad. We own the amygdala now. Thank you very much. Anytime anybody ever has a look. We trademark the colour. We trademarked the amygdala. So anybody listening, the next time you have a panic attack, you owe us a nickel. You owe us five US bucks. We are gonna license panic. Dude, we are this is revolutionary. How come nobody has done this before?
SPEAKER_02So that's the most that's the most American thing ever, like absolutely. You have you having an anxiety disorder is violating my copyright.
SPEAKER_03Oh, wait. Hang on, there's a private equity firm on the phone wanting to invest. Oh, we're gonna license fear. I love this. Anyway, we're not doing that, but we make a lot of money.
SPEAKER_02So is it oh yeah, how to ask for help, nothing. Oh, that's okay. How's a hedge fund your way to money from my excited?
SPEAKER_03How to get money from BlackRock and then buy an island. Um Amy G Dala. Yep, exactly. Amy G Dala I got from my G Dala. Yeah, my friend Anne in Florida. She's a therapist in Florida. She taught me Amy G. Dala, but maybe she didn't invent it. I don't know. Anyway, um, what else we got? On I don't even know how long we've been recording. I'm not even timing this.
SPEAKER_02No idea. How to ask for um 28 minutes. We got plenty of time. Covered on, we've covered all uh two of them. Why don't we yeah, you read out a did it anyway, and I'll think of some extra reflections.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I got more, but I do want to talk about a did it anyway, which was a great one. This comes from the disordered community space too. Not going to say the person's name, of course, but this person had to take her dog, who, by the way, is just cute as hell. There's pictures, of course, to go along again to talk about your dog and not post the picture. But this person said, Well, everybody, I made it to the vet by myself. I posted yesterday asking for some encouragement because I had to take my dog to the vet that is located in the no-go zone, in air quotes. And I was feeling that bullshit feeling of bearing being irresponsible because it was too big a step and all the other lies that anxiety tells me, but I literally just ripped the band-aid off and did it. The appointment took much longer than anticipated, so I had to spend an hour and a half just accepting the discomfort. I even took the bus home. I could tell my dog was too overstimulated to walk back home, so I put his needs before my fear and just hopped on the bus. Everything went fine, and it's so interesting noticing how I so readily accept discomfort now compared to a few months ago. My brain is in a new pattern of saying, oh well, when I get a scary thought or feeling. Anyway, thanks so much for the supportive comments yesterday. My dog is doing great, and I am so relieved. Oof, oof. Can't love that one anymore.
SPEAKER_02Oh, I love that one. Values driven, absolutely on your own, getting the credit, being a good animal, a parent. Oh, I love it. So good.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Noticing the oh the oh well is happening faster. Like, and you know what? This is a perfect example for today's episode. That person just asked for some encouragement, asked for help from the community and got encouragement. Like, we you clearly you want to do this, clearly, this is important. You can handle this. Took the encouragement, got reminded of all of their progress because they repeated the progress in that thing, and ended it with, like, oh yeah, look at that. I I I no problem.
SPEAKER_02Asking for assurances, yeah, asking for encouragement.
SPEAKER_03Love it. That's a good way to do that.
SPEAKER_02Encourage you, but encourage your ability, encourage your belief in yourself to be with the uh unwanted thoughts, feelings, and sensations, but encouraging the belief that you can tolerate them, that you can do stuff with them. Oh yes, that's the way you do it. You build it a bit at a time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, absolutely. I think one thing to add on the topic of uh asking for help too, somebody who mentioned it before, the the sympathy versus empathy that people won't understand. I think sometimes asking for help maybe in the beginning, can be impeded by the fact that in anxiety somebody in the in the community said this a couple of months ago too, has spent years like uh constantly again and again and again. No, no, no, but let me but no no but you're not getting it. But let me tell you, you but you're not getting it. Let me tell you like the anxiety will insist that it is important, it must be understood, it you must make room for it. They don't get it. That's why I always say like anxiety disorders are like a cult leader in your head. Don't they're not gonna get it anyway. And when you would describe what you're afraid of, the person never had it themselves, so they don't they don't understand. And sometimes asking for help is I desperately want you to agree that I that I am terrified and like should sit on the sofa. I desperately yeah, the anxiety will want that's what it wants help to look like, but that's not what help looks like.
SPEAKER_02No, and you can't, it's a paradox because we can all relate to each other's feelings and sensations, and maybe you feel seen on this podcast or through other stuff, but because it anxiety is literally your doubt response, you will never put a carbon copy of your anxiety up next to someone else's, and you they could be 98, 99% the same. Well, I have DPDR and I have intrusive thoughts, and I do this, and I do that. But because it's literally a doubt response, you'll never feel 100% sated and seen. You will be a bit, but that should be enough. Yeah, because it's you're turning off a doubt response.
SPEAKER_03It's interesting because it it leverages the fact that we can never fully share someone else's experience. It can't be done. I can never thank God, it can never be in Josh's head. I I can't even imagine what it's like in there.
SPEAKER_02But oh, honestly, it's it's grim. There's like there's like bats and killer clowns, and it's weird.
SPEAKER_03Since we can never fully share another person's experience, that that wedge, like that's part of the doubt, too. Like, okay, yeah, I know that these two guys with the microphones, they yeah, Josh said he had that, and Drew said he had that, but it but what about right? But what about or what but I think mine might be worse, so therefore, I can't lean on that. Like, and no, just in case I better take the safe way out.
SPEAKER_02And I think that fear mechanism says and an example of how not to ask for help is to go straight to Reddit, AI, and all that, and be like, no, I need a hundred percent satiation that what I feel is completely measurable, quantifiable, seen, done before, but no, because you're a unique human and your anxiety, yes, the doubt is the same as everyone else's, but how it presents and is dressed up is probably slightly different than other people's.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and that's true. And you know, we always wind up in a way picking on this, but I think we have to. It's part of our job. You go to certain places on the internet for ask for help, and you will get exactly the help that the that the doubt and fear response wants, which is confirmation that, like, yeah, nobody, yeah, it's okay. It's okay, dear. Nobody understands how hard this is. You you get off that sofa when you get off, when when you're ready, which yeah, yeah, there's a certain amount of like everybody goes in their own time, but like the internet is excellent at not only you are not alone, but normalizing avoidance and escape and ritualization because it makes you feel better in the moment. So that is those are not good places to ask for help at all, I think. No, I'll give my soapbox.
SPEAKER_02I think I may have ingested poison. Poison. Drew. I have running through the book. Poison running through my veins.
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna call Alice Cooper. Maybe he wants to be uh sorry, he might want to be a guest on the podcast. I would totally have Alice Cooper on the podcast. Oh, anyway, how to ask her help. Have we exhausted this one yet? I mean, we could talk about it for hours and hours, but I think we I think we've said a lot.
SPEAKER_02So the simple answer is it's nuanced. Don't do it compulsively, but do ask for help for encouragement or psychoeducation or to learn a bit more. But then you also have to draw the line between how much is too much to know. Yeah. You know, I know it's a doubt response. I know this maintains it. Safety behaviors and giving the credit to other things often will keep the brain wired the certain way. I've also known the little nuances a little bit in and out. I can study maybe a little bit of how my anxiety presents. So we mentioned in a heat anxiety one, or actually, it was helpful to know about heat anxiety. It was helpful to know about this certain theme of OCD. It was helpful to know about that. That's great. Once you've got your arsenal, then you've got to go and do the work. And help is can you be my cheerleader? But I'm gonna go and get the credit for it. Yeah. You know? Oh good. Like a when England win the World Cup this summer. Lol. Lol. So it Harry Kane's gonna bang a penalty in right in America, top corner, right? It was him. He'll get the plaudits, but actually, it's the crowd that was cheering them on that helped him do it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Lol. I guess it would happen here. I don't know when the where's the final measure gonna be in New York, LA? I don't even know where it's gonna be. So I don't know. I don't know. It's very controversial here because like we have this whole thing going on where like uh the the stadium in Massachusetts was tough. Like the little town of Foxborough was like, uh a FIFA, we need like 11 and a half million dollars to pay for the security. Like, you pay for it. We got you. And they're like, no, we're not taking an IOU from you. So that was a little bit weird. We have a whole you can't park at the stadium.
SPEAKER_02What a what an ethical institution.
SPEAKER_03I know they're above board, aren't they? So anyway. Yeah. Oh goodness. I think it should be fun, though.
SPEAKER_02America is so lucky how they got chosen. I don't know how it happened.
SPEAKER_03I don't know how it happened. I don't know. It was just the luck of the draw, I guess. Let's go to the country that has the least interest in the sport for some unknown reason that we cannot really fully explain, and we'll have it there. That sounds like a good idea.
SPEAKER_02So well, it wasn't the last one, it was in Qatar, the uh the country famous for its footballing prowess. Yeah, yeah, crazy, right?
SPEAKER_03They're famous for their have they ever qualified Qatar?
SPEAKER_02Well, when you get there in the World Cup, you're allowed to if you want to manage you get a bye. So no, like it Lapland could host the World Cup, and Lapland would be playing in I could make the team, the Lapland team. Right, we'll stop chatting. Yeah, I'll be moving the Lapland next week. If you want to submit a did it anyway, you can do it at disordered.fm. You can send us an email at disordered.fm. Uh if you want a bit of community support, you can join um the disordered community. Like I said, there's no uh if it's a good place for encouragement and a place to kind of document where you're going uh and where you're at with some like-minded people. Um if you it's good to heard some lovely things about our health anxiety book recently. So if you want, if you have health anxiety, go check out the disorder guide to health anxiety. I have fixed the Kindle version issue. So the Kindle version is now back. I'm sorry, I fixed it now. It's done. Uh so the Kindle version is back. Uh anything else, Drew?
SPEAKER_03I think we're good. I think you covered all of it. You know, we're here every Friday with a new episode. So if you like this one, come back next week. And who knows what we're gonna talk about. No, maybe we'll do we'll do distraction as a compulsion next week. That's a good topic.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I like distractions.
SPEAKER_03I said we're committed now. So all right, folks. Thanks for hanging out. We'll see you next week. Hope you like this one.
