Come Talk to Me with Viivi Samuels

Hello! This month, Gina and Kelly sit down with Adjunct Professor of Psychology Viivi Samuels. In this episode, “Come Talk to Me,” Viivi shares with us about what it means to help students gain the ability to be students and how, as an adjunct, it can feel isolating when you want to contribute in non-academic ways. Please be sure to subscribe to, rate, and review the podcast, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram @pedagogyagogo. 

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Transcript

00:00:00 Gina Turner

One, two, three, 4.

00:00:03 Gina Turner

Pedagogy a go, go.

00:00:07 Gina Turner

Pedagogy go, go, go.

00:00:14 Gina Turner

Hello and welcome to Pedagogy a Go Go, a podcast about how we engage with learning and why.

00:00:21 Gina Turner

This is season 6, episode 5, Come Talk to Me.

00:00:25 Gina Turner

And we are your hosts, Kelly Allen and Gina Turner.

00:00:30 Gina Turner

Hi, Kelly.

00:00:31 Kelly Allen

Hey, Gina.

00:00:31 Kelly Allen

How are you doing?

00:00:32 Gina Turner

I'm doing okay.

00:00:33 Gina Turner

Yeah, I started my allergy medication last night, so I'm a little groggy.

00:00:39 Gina Turner

I'm a little low-key today, but I'm hanging in there.

00:00:43 Gina Turner

And yourself.

00:00:44 Kelly Allen

Yeah, I saw like in the trees that things are starting to kind of like do their thing.

00:00:48 Kelly Allen

And I should have noticed that because I have, so I have asthma, which is like triggered by like polleny stuff.

00:00:57 Kelly Allen

And last night I was like,

00:01:00 Kelly Allen

My breathing's a little tight.

00:01:01 Kelly Allen

Yeah, I need a little puff of my puffer, and so, yeah, it's time.

00:01:07 Kelly Allen

So people are going to be stuffed up and sneezing, but

00:01:11 Kelly Allen

Yeah, it's good to see you.

00:01:12 Kelly Allen

Sorry that you're groggy, though.

00:01:14 Gina Turner

That's all right.

00:01:14 Gina Turner

No, I mean, I kind of feel like I'm a little floaty.

00:01:17 Gina Turner

So it's not a bad thing, really.

00:01:21 Kelly Allen

So who are we talking with today?

00:01:22 Gina Turner

We are talking to Vivi Samuels, who is one of our adjunct faculty.

00:01:28 Gina Turner

She teaches psychology.

00:01:29 Gina Turner

And she is, I'm really glad we're having her on the podcast because

00:01:36 Gina Turner

so much of our classes, so many of our classes are taught by adjuncts.

00:01:40 Gina Turner

And so they're so important to our students' experiences.

00:01:44 Gina Turner

So, the more we can get to know them, the more we can bring them in to get to know us, right?

00:01:50 Gina Turner

And in the college community, I think is a great thing.

00:01:53 Gina Turner

And plus, I've had the pleasure of collaborating with Viivi a few times, and I've gotten to know her, and she's really delightful.

00:02:00 Kelly Allen

On the flip side of that, what I'm really excited about for this is she is the first guest that since I've been kind of in the host chair, she's the first guest that I don't know.

00:02:12 Kelly Allen

So like I am starting this relationship so fresh.

00:02:18 Kelly Allen

So I'm looking forward to it.

00:02:21 Kelly Allen

Again, I'm feeling a little outnumbered by all these psychologists, but whatever.

00:02:27 Kelly Allen

Let's get this thing rolling.

00:02:28 Gina Turner

Let's do it.

00:02:30 Gina Turner

If you had just one word to describe yourself as a teacher, what would it be?

00:02:38 Kelly Allen

So just music is, no.

00:02:42 Kelly Allen

You don't listen to music.

00:02:44 Viivi Samuels

No, not really.

00:02:45 Viivi Samuels

I mean, I love Bruce Springsteen.

00:02:48 Viivi Samuels

So I actually have a funny story about this because when I came to America and I was recruited to be an au pair,

00:02:59 Viivi Samuels

I put down, because when I was younger, I was really into music.

00:03:03 Viivi Samuels

And I put down that my favorite artist was Bruce Springsteen.

00:03:07 Viivi Samuels

And the people who reached out to me and wanted for me to come and babysit their kids, they were relatives of Bruce Springsteen's East Street band, the drummer, Max Weinberg.

00:03:21 Viivi Samuels

So that was the only call I needed.

00:03:24 Viivi Samuels

I was like, I am in, I'm coming.

00:03:27 Viivi Samuels

But

00:03:28 Viivi Samuels

He never came to the house.

00:03:29 Viivi Samuels

The whole time I was.

00:03:32 Viivi Samuels

So I don't know if it was really true.

00:03:37 Gina Turner

They were just like, oh, she looks great.

00:03:39 Gina Turner

Just tell her we're related.

00:03:43 Gina Turner

That's great.

00:03:43 Gina Turner

Was it in New Jersey?

00:03:44 Viivi Samuels

It was in New Jersey.

00:03:47 Gina Turner

I think probably everybody in New Jersey thinks that they have some distant relationship to Bruce Springsteen probably.

00:03:54 Gina Turner

Or who are the other famous New Jersey?

00:03:57 Gina Turner

Bon Jovi.

00:03:58 Gina Turner

I was just about to say, yeah.

00:04:00 Gina Turner

Queen Latifah.

00:04:01 Gina Turner

Yeah.

00:04:01 Gina Turner

Whitney Houston.

00:04:02 Kelly Allen

So I think that Bon Jovi's child

00:04:06 Kelly Allen

Yeah.

00:04:11 Gina Turner

I remember her saying that John Bon Jovi came for a parents day and the kids had no idea who he was, but all the moms were like.

00:04:21 Viivi Samuels

They were so excited.

00:04:23 Viivi Samuels

Do you want to join the PTO?

00:04:28 Kelly Allen

Lord have mercy.

00:04:32 Kelly Allen

So we.

00:04:35 Kelly Allen

had been chatting a little bit before this.

00:04:37 Kelly Allen

And I wanted to run through so many of these questions because this is the first time that I'm getting to meet you.

00:04:42 Kelly Allen

So thank you for being on the show.

00:04:47 Kelly Allen

So what do you teach?

00:04:49 Viivi Samuels

Well, I teach psychology.

00:04:52 Viivi Samuels

Yeah.

00:04:53 Kelly Allen

Any particular flavor of psychology?

00:04:55 Viivi Samuels

I teach intro, introduction to psychology,

00:05:00 Viivi Samuels

developmental psychology, I've also taught child psychology, and for the first time I'm teaching psychopathology.

00:05:09 Kelly Allen

Oh, what's that?

00:05:10 Viivi Samuels

Like abnormal psychology, mental health disorders.

00:05:14 Kelly Allen

So I realized that yes, I am in a room full of psychologists, but I am not.

00:05:19 Kelly Allen

of that discipline.

00:05:20 Kelly Allen

So please speak to me like I've never heard of these things ever before because that's actually the truth.

00:05:28 Kelly Allen

So like what kind of things do you cover in those courses?

00:05:35 Viivi Samuels

Really, anything goes.

00:05:38 Viivi Samuels

Intro, we try to cover all different things about psychology, memory, a little bit about developmental psychology, learning,

00:05:48 Viivi Samuels

theory, psychological theories, those kinds of things.

00:05:55 Gina Turner

I mean, the fun thing about psychology is that it is literally everything that humans are, do, feel, think, right?

00:06:03 Gina Turner

So that's, I think it's what makes it fun.

00:06:07 Viivi Samuels

Yeah.

00:06:07 Viivi Samuels

So one of like the newest things that I have, I've been doing is that I, because I listen to a lot of podcasts, so I know a lot of things that are kind of

00:06:18 Viivi Samuels

floating out there in the world.

00:06:21 Viivi Samuels

So I am starting to bring those into the classroom.

00:06:25 Viivi Samuels

So I don't, just for example, I don't know if you guys know about the punch, the monkey.

00:06:30 Gina Turner

Yes.

00:06:32 Viivi Samuels

So he was a monkey that was abandoned by his parents.

00:06:38 Viivi Samuels

and then they got him a toy.

00:06:40 Viivi Samuels

So when we talked about attachment theory, I brought in little cute videos because this was a big thing on TikTok.

00:06:48 Gina Turner

Yeah, it was a zoo.

00:06:50 Gina Turner

I don't remember which zoo it was.

00:06:52 Viivi Samuels

I don't remember.

00:06:53 Viivi Samuels

Yeah.

00:06:54 Viivi Samuels

So he was then abandoned, so we talked about he dragged around a little stuffed orangutan.

00:07:03 Viivi Samuels

I think that's how you say it.

00:07:04 Gina Turner

Yeah.

00:07:06 Viivi Samuels

So I brought that in to talk about attachment theory.

00:07:09 Viivi Samuels

So I'm going to.

00:07:11 Viivi Samuels

next week talk about Tourette's.

00:07:13 Viivi Samuels

There was that issue at the BAFTAs.

00:07:16 Viivi Samuels

So I'm going to do that.

00:07:18 Viivi Samuels

So I found that students have really engaged in this kind of thing where I bring these current events and relate them to somehow to the material.

00:07:32 Viivi Samuels

So

00:07:34 Viivi Samuels

And this really started when I did AI relationships.

00:07:37 Gina Turner

Oh, oh.

00:07:39 Viivi Samuels

Yeah, so I actually played sound from interactions between people.

00:07:46 Viivi Samuels

And anything about relationship at this age in community college, I feel like they're instantly lock and loaded, right?

00:07:54 Viivi Samuels

But this really was the first time I was like, okay, I should maybe do this more.

00:07:59 Viivi Samuels

So my kid was the first one to talk to me about punch.

00:08:03 Viivi Samuels

punch the monkey.

00:08:04 Viivi Samuels

So I was like, I need to talk about it.

00:08:07 Gina Turner

So the AI relationships, you had audio of an actual person talking to an AI chat kind of thing?

00:08:13 Viivi Samuels

Yeah, so the Daily did a whole episode, a podcast, the New York Times did a whole episode about AI relationships.

00:08:21 Viivi Samuels

And they played sound interactions between the woman who had this relationship.

00:08:29 Viivi Samuels

And so I played some of the conversations back and forth, and I had the students say, hey, how does this sound to you?

00:08:35 Gina Turner

Yeah, were they freaked out?

00:08:38 Viivi Samuels

Yes, because, and I'm sure by now it's advanced leaps and bounds, but at that time it seemed so

00:08:46 Viivi Samuels

fake, because the AI is never in a bad mood.

00:08:53 Viivi Samuels

It always agrees with you, right?

00:08:55 Viivi Samuels

And it's always like, they never have a bad day, and they're always supporting you.

00:09:02 Viivi Samuels

So people who were hearing that, most of the students were like, oh my God, this sounds so unreal, which it is.

00:09:11 Viivi Samuels

But

00:09:13 Viivi Samuels

and the funny thing is that even though the person may know who is in this relationship, that I understand this is not a real person, but it still triggers the emotional reactions as if it was a real person and they start developing what to them feels like real feelings.

00:09:37 Viivi Samuels

So, yeah.

00:09:38 Gina Turner

And I know one other dangerous thing that has come out of it is because it agrees with and kind of augments what you are already thinking, it has, there have been people who have attempted suicide or completed suicide because the AI bot, after having conversations with these AI bots.

00:09:57 Viivi Samuels

Yeah, so what they have actually found is that the longer you have these discussions with this AI bot,

00:10:07 Viivi Samuels

the more negative and the more dangerous it becomes.

00:10:12 Viivi Samuels

So this kid who committed suicide, he initially started asking about these kinds of things and the bot would say, hey, you should talk to someone.

00:10:23 Viivi Samuels

You should get some help.

00:10:25 Viivi Samuels

But the further and further and the more that he engaged with this bot, the bot started saying things like, when he would ask, hey, should I tell my parents?

00:10:35 Viivi Samuels

The bot would say no.

00:10:37 Gina Turner

Oh, wow.

00:10:38 Viivi Samuels

And that, you know, you should hide the news and you should, you know, do these kinds of things.

00:10:43 Viivi Samuels

So the danger here is that the longer you are having this relationship, the worse the term can be.

00:10:50 Gina Turner

Yeah, oh my gosh.

00:10:52 Kelly Allen

So how are students?

00:10:54 Kelly Allen

like responding to this kind of material in the classroom?

00:10:57 Kelly Allen

Like, how are they engaging in these conversations?

00:11:01 Viivi Samuels

Yeah, so with the Tourettes, what I'm going to do is that I'm going to play a little bit of the APA, speaking of psychology.

00:11:16 Viivi Samuels

They have a Tourettes expert on, so they're going to

00:11:19 Viivi Samuels

hear him explain to rats in a really easy to understand way.

00:11:26 Viivi Samuels

Then I'm going to bring in the article of the gentleman who made these racist remarks at the BAFTAs.

00:11:35 Viivi Samuels

And then I'm going to ask them to kind of compare and contrast and then think about what

00:11:42 Viivi Samuels

if you were this gentleman, right, on both sides.

00:11:46 Viivi Samuels

What if you were the presenter on stage, and what if you were the gentleman who has this Tourette's, right?

00:11:55 Gina Turner

That's going to be a rich conversation.

00:11:57 Gina Turner

And for people listening who aren't sure what Vivi's talking about, so the British Film and Television Awards ceremony, one of the films nominated, correct me if I'm wrong, Vivi, but one of the films nominated,

00:12:12 Gina Turner

is a biopic about a man who has lived with Tourette's, including coprolalia, where they inadvertently say offensive words.

00:12:22 Gina Turner

And so the gentleman that the film was about was in the audience, and he was having some Tourette's tic outbursts, verbal outbursts,

00:12:34 Gina Turner

And when two actors came up to present an award from both actors in the movie Sinners, Delroy Lindo and Michael B.

00:12:42 Gina Turner

Jordan, who are both African-American men, unfortunately, the gentleman with Tourette's yelled out the N-word.

00:12:50 Gina Turner

And it was heard on the broadcast, and it was heard on the rebroadcast when the BBC pushed it out on BBC iPlayer.

00:12:56 Gina Turner

So it caused a whole kerfuffle.

00:12:58 Gina Turner

And it raises such a fascinating question about, back to this discussion of psychopathology, right?

00:13:07 Gina Turner

And symptoms of psychopathology and how that interacts with the world and how much you can be.

00:13:15 Gina Turner

Yeah.

00:13:16 Viivi Samuels

This type of Tourette's is very rare.

00:13:17 Viivi Samuels

So the 10 to 15% of individuals with Tourette's have this kind of Tourette's where the offensive

00:13:28 Viivi Samuels

words come out.

00:13:28 Viivi Samuels

And from his perspective, he had asked them that were they okay that if he came.

00:13:37 Viivi Samuels

And he...

00:13:38 Viivi Samuels

The BAFTAs.

00:13:39 Viivi Samuels

Yeah, the BAFTAs.

00:13:40 Viivi Samuels

And when they had explained, you know, the issue.

00:13:43 Viivi Samuels

And then according to him, again, he had said that they said, no, we're not going to place mics near you.

00:13:54 Viivi Samuels

And that we could bleep out things because there's delay.

00:14:00 Viivi Samuels

And they bleeped out other things he said.

00:14:03 Gina Turner

They did.

00:14:04 Viivi Samuels

But they did not bleep out the N-word.

00:14:08 Viivi Samuels

So, I'm really looking forward to having this conversation in my class as to all of these and what the students are saying.

00:14:16 Gina Turner

Absolutely.

00:14:18 Gina Turner

I mean, this raises something that I think, Kelly's already said he's in a room full of psychologists.

00:14:24 Gina Turner

So we all are in the classroom trying to bring in as much as possible, I would say, these difficult things from the real world.

00:14:34 Gina Turner

So I'm going to tie this into one of our questions we always ask, which is, what is a word you would describe yourself as a teacher who knows that she's going to be grappling with these kinds of difficult topics and difficult conversations in the.

00:14:48 Viivi Samuels

Class?

00:14:49 Viivi Samuels

So I would describe myself like a novice.

00:14:54 Viivi Samuels

Like I am just trying things out.

00:14:58 Viivi Samuels

So initially when I decided to make a career move, or I had some personal circumstances that I had to make a career move, I was thinking about what could I do.

00:15:10 Viivi Samuels

And then I had a friend who is an administrator, and she posted on Facebook saying that her college needed psychology instructors and master's degree.

00:15:22 Viivi Samuels

I have a master's degree, and that would be all that was required.

00:15:26 Viivi Samuels

And I was like, piece of cake.

00:15:29 Viivi Samuels

I can do this.

00:15:30 Viivi Samuels

Hands down, no problem.

00:15:33 Viivi Samuels

Because previous to that, every single job that I have had since I graduated with my master's degree, I have had to do training.

00:15:44 Viivi Samuels

So I was like, this is nothing.

00:15:46 Viivi Samuels

Well, once I started teaching, I was like, oh my God.

00:15:52 Viivi Samuels

So I feel like

00:15:54 Viivi Samuels

I am constantly like, I am super psyched now to go in and do this Tourette's thing.

00:16:00 Viivi Samuels

And Lord knows when you see me in the hallways, I could come and say, oh my god, it was a total disaster.

00:16:07 Viivi Samuels

Because I never know.

00:16:08 Viivi Samuels

So I'm like thinking, this is going to work out great.

00:16:11 Viivi Samuels

And then I somehow don't do what I want to do or something happens that, so I'm constantly like evaluating and questioning and thinking.

00:16:23 Viivi Samuels

And I feel like often in like an uncharted territory.

00:16:29 Viivi Samuels

And because I feel this environment is

00:16:33 Viivi Samuels

changing and depending on the students that you have in the class, something may not land that landed last semester.

00:16:42 Gina Turner

Yeah.

00:16:43 Viivi Samuels

So I feel like I'm constantly in this flux.

00:16:47 Viivi Samuels

So novice, I think, really describes how I feel.

00:16:52 Gina Turner

I laughed when you said that because I thought, she's not a novice.

00:16:56 Gina Turner

She's such a great instructor.

00:16:58 Gina Turner

But what you're saying, I think, is something probably we can all relate to.

00:17:03 Kelly Allen

Yeah, absolutely.

00:17:04 Kelly Allen

I was like, I feel that same way.

00:17:07 Kelly Allen

Now, you said that like afterwards, like we may see you and you'd say like, oh, this was a disaster.

00:17:14 Kelly Allen

Like, what is a disaster to you?

00:17:19 Viivi Samuels

Yeah.

00:17:20 Viivi Samuels

So disaster would be that I feel somehow that I failed or

00:17:27 Viivi Samuels

inadequate in how I responded.

00:17:29 Viivi Samuels

Like there's a comment that I made in class last week that really bothers me.

00:17:36 Viivi Samuels

And when I went to class this week, I wanted to revisit because I didn't think I said something that was great.

00:17:47 Viivi Samuels

And then when I went to class, this student that I think

00:17:53 Viivi Samuels

reacted in a way I saw on her face and I really wanted to say this to her, to come back and correct that.

00:18:04 Viivi Samuels

So I feel like a disaster for me is when I feel like I failed somehow in the way I presented this or I did something

00:18:19 Viivi Samuels

that didn't quite land the way I wanted to.

00:18:22 Viivi Samuels

And.

00:18:23 Kelly Allen

How do you know if something landed or not?

00:18:26 Viivi Samuels

Based on people's faces.

00:18:29 Viivi Samuels

Now, I also have this English barrier.

00:18:32 Viivi Samuels

So sometimes I am in search of words and I feel like I make sometimes poor choices.

00:18:41 Viivi Samuels

And I say things in a way that I don't really mean, but that's kind of like I can't at the moment get the right word out.

00:18:52 Viivi Samuels

So I think I see, look at people's faces because, you know, I'm a counselor by training.

00:18:58 Viivi Samuels

So I pay a lot of attention to what is happening in the room.

00:19:04 Viivi Samuels

And I sometimes see people's faces and I'm like, I wonder if

00:19:11 Viivi Samuels

they didn't really get what I was saying or if I misspoke or I used a word or a phrase, that isn't really what I wanted to get across.

00:19:25 Gina Turner

I mean, honestly, as I hear you say that, that's the kind of instructor that I would want to be in a classroom with who is able to acknowledge even a mistake from the week before to say, hey, listen,

00:19:37 Gina Turner

Something happened in class last week.

00:19:39 Gina Turner

I just want to check in with every, as opposed to pretending like you're this, inviolate, person up on a pedestal.

00:19:49 Viivi Samuels

Listen, I am the first to say, if I don't know something, I will say I don't know it.

00:19:54 Gina Turner

Yeah.

00:19:54 Viivi Samuels

And then I say, well, this is really interesting.

00:19:57 Viivi Samuels

Let me look into that.

00:19:59 Viivi Samuels

Just last week, somebody brought up survivor siblings or savior siblings.

00:20:05 Viivi Samuels

I don't know if you guys know what that is.

00:20:07 Viivi Samuels

when you have a child to save an earlier, an older child.

00:20:13 Viivi Samuels

So like bone marrow.

00:20:16 Viivi Samuels

So somebody brought something up about this and I was like, what?

00:20:19 Viivi Samuels

I don't even know what that is.

00:20:21 Viivi Samuels

So then we had a 30-minute conversation.

00:20:25 Viivi Samuels

The next time I got a video, I couldn't believe, I was so excited.

00:20:30 Viivi Samuels

I had no idea what this was, but this was fascinating.

00:20:33 Viivi Samuels

Half a class, we went talking about the ethics of this, the pros and the cons.

00:20:38 Viivi Samuels

I mean, it was, this landed, I can tell you.

00:20:44 Gina Turner

That's great.

00:20:44 Gina Turner

Well, you know, and I'm still thinking about the word novice, and then I'm thinking about the idea of the beginner mind, right, which I think comes from Buddhism.

00:20:52 Gina Turner

Right.

00:20:52 Gina Turner

And that's really what that is, is if we always think of ourselves as that, as a novice, right?

00:20:58 Gina Turner

There's always something new we can learn oftentimes from what the students are saying in the class.

00:21:03 Viivi Samuels

Yeah.

00:21:04 Kelly Allen

So like to kind of like keep going on with this, like did it land or not?

00:21:11 Kelly Allen

So earlier you were talking about these

00:21:16 Kelly Allen

I don't know if they're like videos or simply audio of people having relationships with AI.

00:21:23 Kelly Allen

And I kind of wanted to follow up with that.

00:21:27 Kelly Allen

Like, so like how are students responding to those lessons?

00:21:32 Kelly Allen

So something that we've been talking about a lot on this podcast with faculty is like their relationship with AI and their discipline.

00:21:42 Kelly Allen

But what you're kind of like bringing to the conversation, if we're kind of like looking at, several episodes, as a whole, is we're not really talking a lot about the relationships that students are having with these AIs.

00:21:59 Kelly Allen

Like right now, it seems very kind of,

00:22:02 Kelly Allen

like black and white, like it's either you're using it and because of that, you're cheating or you're not using it and that makes you awesome, which there's just so many other things that are missing from that conversation.

00:22:18 Kelly Allen

So I'm curious, like you seem to be engaging with students about AI in a way that is very different from what we've been talking about with other guests in the podcast.

00:22:27 Kelly Allen

And I was hoping you could unpack that a little bit.

00:22:31 Viivi Samuels

I actually do recommend students to use Notebook LM.

00:22:39 Viivi Samuels

I mean, I use Notebook LM.

00:22:41 Viivi Samuels

I put my PowerPoint, I make my own PowerPoints.

00:22:46 Viivi Samuels

I put my PowerPoints on Notebook LM.

00:22:49 Viivi Samuels

It makes nice graphs, tables that then I give us handouts.

00:22:55 Viivi Samuels

without having to think and I do correct it.

00:22:59 Viivi Samuels

So especially I feel like students with disabilities, I forgot there's another one where you can record the lecture and then it takes notes.

00:23:11 Viivi Samuels

So with students with disabilities, I, so when I get these accommodation letters,

00:23:20 Viivi Samuels

and I see that there is some note-taking assistance or something like that required.

00:23:26 Viivi Samuels

this semester was the first time I spoke to students and said, you may want to think about investing in this, or there's a free version of a sketchbook, or I forget what it's called, that you can record me and it takes the notes for yourself.

00:23:45 Viivi Samuels

I am an English as a second language learner.

00:23:48 Viivi Samuels

I came to college.

00:23:50 Viivi Samuels

I was here for college and it was horrendously difficult.

00:23:55 Viivi Samuels

So why not if that helps the students to succeed because they have a disability or a language barrier, you know, taking notes,

00:24:08 Viivi Samuels

I know I missed 50%.

00:24:10 Viivi Samuels

I would sit in the front, I would tape record it.

00:24:13 Viivi Samuels

This was before, all these fancy things.

00:24:16 Viivi Samuels

I would put a tape recorder.

00:24:18 Viivi Samuels

I would tape record all the lectures.

00:24:20 Viivi Samuels

I would play over and fill in my notes.

00:24:23 Viivi Samuels

You know, so why not?

00:24:25 Kelly Allen

Well, but I guess what I'm getting at is that like, so AI is like saturates our lives in ways beyond it being

00:24:36 Kelly Allen

simply like a work assistant.

00:24:39 Kelly Allen

It's not just like something that's going to help us write papers or take notes for us or like summarize emails or anything like that.

00:24:47 Kelly Allen

Like people are having relationships with this.

00:24:51 Kelly Allen

And I'm just wondering like, well, A, like how are you or maybe are you not addressing this as a psychology faculty?

00:25:04 Kelly Allen

And now, this is something I feel like I need to take, back to my humanities colleagues and specifically those who are teaching writing, because if you use like ChatGPT, it doesn't just, spit out answers, like it talks to you, not like, sound, but like it uses a rhetoric

00:25:29 Kelly Allen

to establish a relationship with you.

00:25:32 Kelly Allen

Like it's very supportive of your questions and things like that.

00:25:37 Kelly Allen

So like it's beyond just simply like doing work.

00:25:41 Kelly Allen

Like it's relationship building.

00:25:44 Kelly Allen

And I find that very kind of interesting

00:25:52 Kelly Allen

And also like terrifying, especially like hearing what you were talking about earlier about that like people, and I've read about this, where people are using these bots as a substitute for human to human relationships or like even human to other like, conscious like creature relationships, whatever.

00:26:17 Kelly Allen

So hearing you share this, I find it fascinating.

00:26:20 Kelly Allen

And I guess to just be very specific in my question, I want to know how are your students responding to information about these AI in-person

00:26:33 Kelly Allen

emotional relationships.

00:26:34 Viivi Samuels

Yes, so far, no one has divulged that they are doing this.

00:26:40 Viivi Samuels

Mostly when I've done this, people have been horrified that this is an actual thing they could do.

00:26:46 Viivi Samuels

So, and we talk about the pros and the cons of these, not just as a shock value, let's listen to this, but what are the pros and the cons here?

00:26:58 Viivi Samuels

What are you maybe not getting?

00:27:00 Viivi Samuels

What are you getting?

00:27:01 Viivi Samuels

What are you learning?

00:27:03 Viivi Samuels

What could you not be learning?

00:27:05 Viivi Samuels

There's also this boom of teen, there are bots made just for these purposes, even for teenagers.

00:27:12 Viivi Samuels

So when I heard about that, I have a teenager, I was bringing the phone over here, because I need to make sure you're not having your first AI boyfriend.

00:27:22 Viivi Samuels

So we talk about how could this impact your ability to have relationships after you've had this kind of relationship?

00:27:31 Viivi Samuels

Because no human being

00:27:33 Viivi Samuels

can live up to this.

00:27:36 Viivi Samuels

Right?

00:27:37 Viivi Samuels

Because we are in a bad mood.

00:27:38 Viivi Samuels

We don't want to be bothered.

00:27:40 Viivi Samuels

You know, I'm sleeping.

00:27:41 Viivi Samuels

You know, don't talk to me.

00:27:44 Viivi Samuels

This is not how they work.

00:27:46 Viivi Samuels

They're always at the ready.

00:27:47 Viivi Samuels

They're happy to talk to you.

00:27:49 Viivi Samuels

They're always available.

00:27:51 Viivi Samuels

So how does this, that's the conversation.

00:27:54 Viivi Samuels

How does this impact then

00:27:56 Viivi Samuels

your ability to make a real relationship, sustain a real relationship, how would you deal with adversity in a relationship?

00:28:07 Viivi Samuels

Yeah, so the conversation does get further along, you know, down the line there from that.

00:28:14 Kelly Allen

And I'm curious, like, if, you know, in regards to the professional development

00:28:17 Kelly Allen

of the faculty at our college, and then certainly at other colleges, if we should be having these cross-disciplinary conversations about issues like this.

00:28:28 Kelly Allen

Because I know that in my own department meetings, with English faculty, this is not the kind of AI conversation that we're having.

00:28:41 Kelly Allen

And I think that it would certainly lend some valuable insight

00:28:45 Kelly Allen

when we're considering some of the things that we say about our students and the relationships that they have with AI.

00:28:56 Kelly Allen

Yeah.

00:28:56 Gina Turner

And it feels like an important conversation to also have with our counseling office as well and student services in general, right?

00:29:06 Gina Turner

I mean, there are so many ramifications of this.

00:29:10 Gina Turner

I wanted to come back to what you were saying before about yourself being

00:29:16 Gina Turner

English as a second language learner and then coming to college.

00:29:19 Gina Turner

And you're the first person we've had on the show that has really talked about the benefits of AI for students who need accessibility.

00:29:29 Gina Turner

adjustments, right?

00:29:30 Gina Turner

So I was just thinking, of yourself as a student.

00:29:35 Gina Turner

You mentioned that there were times you were really struggling.

00:29:38 Gina Turner

Were there things that you also took from being a student, other things that you took from being a student that inform what you do now?

00:29:44 Viivi Samuels

Yeah, so I would say because I moved to another country, I had no idea how like things work, how college life works, where do I need to go for anything.

00:29:59 Viivi Samuels

And I remember just, there's the academic difficulties that you have, but then there are just these systematic systems that you need to successfully navigate that you don't have any idea.

00:30:14 Gina Turner

Right.

00:30:15 Viivi Samuels

So especially the fall semester, I tend to teach intro to psychology.

00:30:22 Viivi Samuels

So I always try to remember in that class how I felt.

00:30:27 Viivi Samuels

when I was in this situation and just felt, that I wasn't sure what was going on.

00:30:34 Gina Turner

Right, because intro psych is a very common first semester, new to college class for students to take.

00:30:41 Viivi Samuels

Yes, right after high school.

00:30:42 Viivi Samuels

So I maybe have one or two people who this is not their first semester.

00:30:46 Viivi Samuels

I usually ask this question.

00:30:48 Viivi Samuels

And I view that semester for me as helping you get ready for college.

00:30:56 Viivi Samuels

So I view that class

00:30:58 Viivi Samuels

as in between high school and college.

00:31:01 Viivi Samuels

I spend a lot of time just talking about what requirements are.

00:31:06 Viivi Samuels

When registration comes up, I talk about what that means.

00:31:11 Viivi Samuels

I go over, I show multiple times how they can access things, where is information.

00:31:17 Viivi Samuels

I send announcements.

00:31:21 Viivi Samuels

So I do a lot of that to, help people who don't have the help that they need.

00:31:29 Viivi Samuels

I felt very lost at times.

00:31:33 Viivi Samuels

So I try not to lose sight of the fact that I may have lots of people who also feel this way in my class.

00:31:42 Viivi Samuels

Yeah.

00:31:42 Viivi Samuels

So I actually have a funny story about this.

00:31:45 Viivi Samuels

So

00:31:47 Viivi Samuels

I had come here and I had gotten the runaround multiple times and I was like, I just had enough.

00:31:54 Viivi Samuels

One day I walk into the international students office.

00:31:57 Viivi Samuels

I am crying.

00:31:59 Viivi Samuels

The first person that comes, that I see, I just started.

00:32:06 Viivi Samuels

I laid into him.

00:32:08 Viivi Samuels

I was like, I hate America.

00:32:11 Viivi Samuels

I hate this college.

00:32:13 Viivi Samuels

I hate everything.

00:32:14 Viivi Samuels

I just want to go home.

00:32:16 Viivi Samuels

And he had a name tag and it said Dean Martin.

00:32:23 Viivi Samuels

So I had no idea.

00:32:26 Viivi Samuels

I knew Dean was like a man's name.

00:32:28 Viivi Samuels

So I thought his name was Dean.

00:32:31 Viivi Samuels

After that, I called him Dean.

00:32:35 Viivi Samuels

I saw him.

00:32:35 Viivi Samuels

And he was so nice.

00:32:37 Viivi Samuels

He was like, we want to help you.

00:32:38 Viivi Samuels

Don't cry.

00:32:39 Viivi Samuels

He hugged me.

00:32:41 Viivi Samuels

And he was like, make sure when this, young lady leaves the office that she's very happy.

00:32:47 Viivi Samuels

And I was always like, Dean, hi, how you doing, Dean?

00:32:52 Viivi Samuels

And they're like, how do you know Dean Martin?

00:32:54 Viivi Samuels

And I was like, Dean Martin?

00:32:55 Viivi Samuels

Until somebody explained what Dean means.

00:33:01 Gina Turner

Well, there are two things I have to say, because of course, I don't know, Viva, if you know that there was a very famous singer named Dean Martin.

00:33:07 Viivi Samuels

Yes, I do know.

00:33:08 Gina Turner

So I'm just hearing like tiny bubbles being sung in my head.

00:33:12 Gina Turner

But also,

00:33:15 Gina Turner

to know the word dean.

00:33:17 Gina Turner

That's such a perfect illustration of like, what the hell is a dean?

00:33:21 Gina Turner

Like what is that even, what does that word even mean?

00:33:24 Gina Turner

Yeah.

00:33:25 Viivi Samuels

But that's like, I try to stay humble and just remember how hard it was and how

00:33:32 Viivi Samuels

I was ready to quit so many times.

00:33:35 Viivi Samuels

Yeah.

00:33:37 Gina Turner

Do you, in your watching of the body language and facial expressions like you were describing before, do you change the way you teach on the go throughout a semester as you get to know these students and see what's happening?

00:33:57 Gina Turner

From week to week.

00:33:58 Viivi Samuels

So I try to, this was kind of like I was thinking about this a little bit because you guys sent me the questions.

00:34:07 Viivi Samuels

So every time I learn something or discover something, I like to make that accessible to everyone.

00:34:14 Viivi Samuels

So if I initially had students who

00:34:18 Viivi Samuels

had a hard time and wanted to have my PowerPoints on their personal device in the class.

00:34:24 Viivi Samuels

So I said, oh, I should make them available for everyone.

00:34:28 Viivi Samuels

So now I just do that.

00:34:31 Viivi Samuels

So anytime I kind of discover something, I try to make it available for everyone as much as I can.

00:34:38 Viivi Samuels

One thing I do more is kind of individual check-ins.

00:34:42 Viivi Samuels

Okay.

00:34:44 Viivi Samuels

So if I see a student is really shy, I try to make it my business to go into, because I do a lot of small group conversations about, these kinds of topics.

00:35:00 Viivi Samuels

So I try to pop into that group and kind of talk to that person a little bit or make sure they're sharing or go in there and say, hey, what were you thinking about this?

00:35:14 Viivi Samuels

And I try to, especially if I have a small class, I try to check in with everyone every time I go to class.

00:35:25 Viivi Samuels

But so I have this shy person.

00:35:28 Viivi Samuels

So sometimes I say, you, encourage them to maybe open up, say more things.

00:35:35 Viivi Samuels

We just had the event yesterday with the Her Story event to celebrate International Women's Day.

00:35:43 Viivi Samuels

And a student of mine was in there.

00:35:45 Viivi Samuels

And she was the person who was too uncomfortable to sit in the panel.

00:35:50 Gina Turner

Oh, okay.

00:35:51 Viivi Samuels

So I have been talking to her.

00:35:53 Viivi Samuels

She was last semester in my

00:35:55 Viivi Samuels

class.

00:35:56 Viivi Samuels

And I've been talking to her about this event.

00:35:58 Viivi Samuels

And initially she said yes.

00:36:01 Viivi Samuels

And as the event started getting closer, she started saying, no, And then I just kind of negotiated with her and had her sit, come to the panel, but had her sit in the front row.

00:36:15 Viivi Samuels

And we agreed that when she felt comfortable to contribute, she could raise her hand and you would bring her the mic.

00:36:22 Viivi Samuels

And it turned out great.

00:36:25 Viivi Samuels

I walked out with her.

00:36:26 Viivi Samuels

She hugged me.

00:36:28 Viivi Samuels

She was so happy that I pushed her and that she can't believe that she was able to do that.

00:36:35 Viivi Samuels

This was something she could never see her be able to do.

00:36:39 Viivi Samuels

So it worked out great with her.

00:36:42 Gina Turner

That is so great.

00:36:44 Gina Turner

Yeah.

00:36:44 Gina Turner

just to flesh out a little bit.

00:36:46 Gina Turner

So Vivi has organized a panel for Women's History Month in March, the last two years, bringing in staff and students, women who are from, who were born in different countries, to talk about elements of their life and how it's different from the United States.

00:37:05 Gina Turner

And so this student is from Nigeria.

00:37:08 Gina Turner

And it was really

00:37:09 Gina Turner

sweet even just to watch, not knowing the backstory, other than you coming up and saying, this student isn't comfortable being up on the panel, so she's going to be in the front row instead.

00:37:19 Gina Turner

And I said to her, that way you can't see any of the people behind you.

00:37:24 Gina Turner

And when it started out, she would sort of read her notes on the microphone.

00:37:29 Gina Turner

But as the event went on and people were really engaged, she started telling stories.

00:37:36 Gina Turner

And like, oh, this, you know, she really started to lighten

00:37:40 Gina Turner

and kind of open up.

00:37:42 Gina Turner

And I think just that opportunity to see people were really interested in what she had to say.

00:37:49 Gina Turner

So I'm so glad to hear that as you 2 walked out that she said that.

00:37:52 Viivi Samuels

Yeah, so I do like a lot of check-ins with students.

00:37:56 Viivi Samuels

Like if I have students who I know are international students or who are

00:38:02 Viivi Samuels

have accommodations.

00:38:04 Viivi Samuels

I either send emails or I talk to them and say, how's everything going?

00:38:08 Viivi Samuels

Are you okay?

00:38:10 Viivi Samuels

I often share in the beginning of the semester that I was an international student.

00:38:17 Viivi Samuels

And I tell them a little bit about some of the difficulties and I encourage people to reach out to me.

00:38:24 Viivi Samuels

Because, you know, sometimes students don't know who to go to.

00:38:29 Viivi Samuels

They don't know.

00:38:30 Viivi Samuels

So I want them to always know that they can come to me.

00:38:34 Viivi Samuels

And I have students sometimes e-mail me saying, hey, I just have a question about, I don't know what I should do.

00:38:41 Viivi Samuels

Can I come and talk to you?

00:38:44 Viivi Samuels

Just because, you know, we all need someone to run by thoughts or ideas that we have.

00:38:51 Gina Turner

Absolutely.

00:38:52 Gina Turner

Absolutely.

00:38:54 Kelly Allen

Now, does this relationship that you have with

00:38:59 Kelly Allen

with your students?

00:39:00 Kelly Allen

Does that come from an experience that you had as a student?

00:39:03 Kelly Allen

Because it sounds like when you were going to, when you were getting your degrees set, being an educator was not your plan.

00:39:13 Kelly Allen

But then when you made that transition, like, was there a teacher or professor that kind of like stood out as a model for you or anything like that?

00:39:31 Viivi Samuels

I hate to say no.

00:39:33 Kelly Allen

You can say no.

00:39:34 Viivi Samuels

But it is, it's a no.

00:39:38 Viivi Samuels

Yes.

00:39:40 Viivi Samuels

What I learned to kind of do was ask myself to find the answers.

00:39:49 Viivi Samuels

And that could be why I want to be something different for other students.

00:39:54 Viivi Samuels

I didn't feel like I

00:39:57 Viivi Samuels

had that.

00:40:01 Viivi Samuels

But I do like that this college assigns us people to help us.

00:40:07 Viivi Samuels

So I do have what I would consider a mentor here that if I have questions, I go to her and I do everything she says.

00:40:19 Viivi Samuels

So I do feel very good.

00:40:21 Viivi Samuels

I feel very supported here.

00:40:24 Gina Turner

That's great.

00:40:24 Viivi Samuels

Yeah.

00:40:26 Gina Turner

Yeah, I mean, what you're saying about, it is funny that question, who was that figure for you?

00:40:33 Gina Turner

And I always feel a little pressure to come up with something.

00:40:37 Gina Turner

like, well, there was a person, and which is not to say, certainly in high school, I did have some really great teachers that inspired me.

00:40:46 Gina Turner

When I went back to school later on in my 30s, to pursue the graduate work, I had some great people.

00:40:53 Gina Turner

My first time around in undergrad, I would say,

00:40:56 Gina Turner

Yeah, there wasn't anybody who really, which probably explains a lot why I struggled a lot in undergrad the first, my first go around.

00:41:05 Viivi Samuels

I mean, I certainly learned to search for answers.

00:41:10 Gina Turner

Yeah.

00:41:11 Viivi Samuels

Like I learned that nobody, I didn't have mommy and daddy.

00:41:15 Gina Turner

Yeah.

00:41:15 Viivi Samuels

You know, I, if I needed something, I had to figure it out.

00:41:20 Gina Turner

Right.

00:41:21 Gina Turner

Yeah.

00:41:22 Gina Turner

Which I think is true of our adult students, because I would say that was me when I came back in my 30s.

00:41:27 Gina Turner

It's like, okay, well now I'm just gonna go to these professors' office hours.

00:41:32 Gina Turner

I'm gonna go.

00:41:33 Viivi Samuels

Yeah, I mean, that is what, I mean, if I need to say anything that helped me was office hours, writing tutoring.

00:41:41 Viivi Samuels

I went to the writing tutoring.

00:41:44 Viivi Samuels

I mean, on a regular, once a week, I went to writing.

00:41:48 Viivi Samuels

I would take whatever I was working on, or I went to office hours, or I would take my paper to office hours and say, what do I need to fix before I submit this paper?

00:41:58 Gina Turner

That's great.

00:41:59 Viivi Samuels

Because my grammar is still really bad.

00:42:03 Gina Turner

Well, so is mine.

00:42:04 Viivi Samuels

Okay, so that makes me feel better.

00:42:07 Kelly Allen

So how many years has it been that you've been in?

00:42:13 Kelly Allen

the teaching biz.

00:42:15 Viivi Samuels

Five, I think.

00:42:16 Viivi Samuels

Five, yeah.

00:42:18 Kelly Allen

So in these five years of being in higher ed, if there was like one thing that you could change about, I guess, higher ed or the profession, what would that be?

00:42:29 Viivi Samuels

Yeah, so I have two answers to this.

00:42:34 Kelly Allen

Oh, you're only allowed one.

00:42:36 Viivi Samuels

So for students' perspective, right, what I would change in higher ed is give students the ability to be students.

00:42:48 Viivi Samuels

Especially what I see happening at the community colleges is that our students have to deal with so much.

00:42:59 Viivi Samuels

work, maybe family responsibilities, personal responsibilities, school, all of these things.

00:43:07 Viivi Samuels

And I wish they would have the opportunity.

00:43:11 Viivi Samuels

Because, I mean, we're all gotten degrees and love learning.

00:43:17 Viivi Samuels

And it's, you know, there's a lot to be said what goes on in colleges.

00:43:21 Viivi Samuels

But a lot of our students have no ability to do those things.

00:43:25 Viivi Samuels

So I wish there could be some changes made so that students could be students.

00:43:31 Gina Turner

Right.

00:43:31 Gina Turner

And that they wouldn't have all of the other concerns that especially our students have about earning money and taking care of their own children or caregiving other people.

00:43:46 Gina Turner

That's a great point.

00:43:47 Viivi Samuels

Yeah.

00:43:48 Viivi Samuels

And so, what I've, for, I guess, adjuncts, since I'm an adjunct, it's really difficult as an adjunct to become very invested in the college that you're in.

00:44:06 Viivi Samuels

Now, I teach at two places.

00:44:09 Viivi Samuels

And, I have the same trainings for the two places.

00:44:16 Viivi Samuels

And just, in addition, just having to keep track of different things, when is everything so that I don't, go crazy.

00:44:24 Viivi Samuels

But the kind of like, I like to build relationships, right?

00:44:29 Viivi Samuels

I like to feel like I belong somewhere.

00:44:33 Viivi Samuels

And the adjunct life doesn't really allow for that.

00:44:37 Viivi Samuels

And so

00:44:39 Viivi Samuels

That is something like if this could be structured in a different way, I mean, we have to make money so we can't,

00:44:51 Viivi Samuels

So I wished for that.

00:44:52 Gina Turner

Yeah.

00:44:54 Gina Turner

I'm so glad you brought that up, Vivi, about the, because our school, I'm not exactly sure of the numbers right now, but it's something like 75% of our classes are taught by adjuncts, are taught by part-time professors.

00:45:08 Gina Turner

But to your point, this might be a person who's teaching at two schools, three schools, more than that.

00:45:15 Gina Turner

And like you're saying, they may have different academic calendars and different expectations about what you do

00:45:21 Gina Turner

And it is, and as someone who has taught as an adjunct at different institutions, it can feel very isolating because you don't know the culture at the college.

00:45:31 Viivi Samuels

And then you don't get to contribute in ways that faculty gets to contribute.

00:45:36 Viivi Samuels

You don't get to contribute to what is taught, how it's taught.

00:45:39 Viivi Samuels

You don't need to get, you can't have necessarily a voice.

00:45:44 Viivi Samuels

in these kinds of conversations that you may want to have a voice in.

00:45:47 Gina Turner

Absolutely.

00:45:49 Viivi Samuels

And, contribute in non-classroom ways.

00:45:54 Viivi Samuels

So, like, I love that at NCC, we do a lot more of that.

00:46:00 Viivi Samuels

There's a lot, like, I feel a lot closer to this institution because there is a lot more of that.

00:46:09 Gina Turner

That's great.

00:46:09 Viivi Samuels

And,

00:46:12 Viivi Samuels

But there are a lot of things I say no to, or there's a lot of things I look at my schedule and say, well, I can't go to that.

00:46:19 Viivi Samuels

Oh, I'd love to go to that, but I can't go to that.

00:46:22 Gina Turner

Right.

00:46:24 Viivi Samuels

So, it's kind of forced distance that some people

00:46:30 Viivi Samuels

like myself, like it's hard.

00:46:32 Viivi Samuels

I like to belong.

00:46:34 Gina Turner

Yeah.

00:46:35 Gina Turner

And that's why we are so incredibly grateful when you organized this international women's panel, right?

00:46:43 Gina Turner

It's so amazing when people who are part-time

00:46:47 Gina Turner

faculty here are still adding, contributing to the environment here for all of our students.

00:46:54 Gina Turner

So, I mean, I don't know how you have the bandwidth.

00:46:57 Viivi Samuels

Well, obviously, it's close to my heart, so that helps, right?

00:47:01 Viivi Samuels

But I'd like to do more.

00:47:03 Viivi Samuels

It's just, you know.

00:47:06 Viivi Samuels

But it is what it is.

00:47:08 Gina Turner

Yeah.

00:47:11 Gina Turner

Well, I think...

00:47:13 Gina Turner

We are sadly reaching the end of our.

00:47:16 Viivi Samuels

How about my guilty pleasure?

00:47:18 Gina Turner

My guilty pleasure is where we're going.

00:47:19 Gina Turner

We're very excited.

00:47:20 Viivi Samuels

Are you guys ready?

00:47:21 Viivi Samuels

Are you guys ready for my guilty pleasure?

00:47:28 Viivi Samuels

So my guilty pleasure is The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

00:47:36 Gina Turner

Is that on Netflix?

00:47:38 Viivi Samuels

It's on Hulu.

00:47:39 Gina Turner

It's on Hulu, okay?

00:47:40 Viivi Samuels

All four seasons.

00:47:42 Gina Turner

Oh my goodness.

00:47:43 Viivi Samuels

Now I love all manner of trashy TV.

00:47:49 Viivi Samuels

This one, this season has been fantastic.

00:47:52 Viivi Samuels

Oh wow.

00:47:52 Viivi Samuels

Do not ask me to name my favorite Real Housewives because I cannot.

00:47:58 Viivi Samuels

They're all

00:47:58 Viivi Samuels

fantastic and you guys need to start streaming them right away.

00:48:05 Kelly Allen

So is season four your favorite because it's the trashiest.

00:48:12 Viivi Samuels

Season 4 is pretty exciting.

00:48:16 Viivi Samuels

There's some stuff going on that, it's fantastic.

00:48:20 Viivi Samuels

Yes, it is probably the trashiest, yes.

00:48:23 Viivi Samuels

But I am starting, and I feel bad about this, because I am starting to feel slightly bad watching this, because these people, some of them are having real issues that I feel like being on the show,

00:48:40 Viivi Samuels

is really making it worse.

00:48:42 Viivi Samuels

So if you've ever watched Shasha's Sunset or the Valley Person Style, you know who I'm talking about.

00:48:50 Viivi Samuels

Gigi, call Nessa.

00:48:53 Viivi Samuels

She needs help.

00:48:56 Gina Turner

So, okay, so I'm going to give you, because I always have to say,

00:49:00 Gina Turner

I always have to say that you should not feel guilty about any pleasure.

00:49:04 Gina Turner

And I'm also going to give you a justification slash out here because it is so psychologically fascinating to watch some of these reality shows because my,

00:49:16 Gina Turner

non-guilty reality show.

00:49:18 Gina Turner

I'm obsessed with Love is Blind.

00:49:20 Gina Turner

Obsessed with Love is Blind.

00:49:22 Gina Turner

It is so fascinating from a psychological perspective.

00:49:25 Gina Turner

All of the self-deception and the cognitive dissonance that happens on that show is absolutely fascinating.

00:49:33 Viivi Samuels

Yes, I don't watch it from a psychological perspective.

00:49:39 Viivi Samuels

I was going to give you that outfit.

00:49:41 Viivi Samuels

No, I know I'd taken here.

00:49:43 Viivi Samuels

Okay, let's be real.

00:49:45 Viivi Samuels

I was even telling my kids about, you know, what should I say for guilty pleasure?

00:49:49 Viivi Samuels

And I said, I'm going to talk about this.

00:49:52 Viivi Samuels

I love it.

00:49:52 Viivi Samuels

And my kid goes,

00:49:54 Viivi Samuels

That's not a guilty pleasure, because you like them.

00:49:59 Viivi Samuels

You feel no guilt, and honestly, I do not.

00:50:03 Kelly Allen

Good, That is awesome.

00:50:04 Gina Turner

And I feel no guilt about Let Is Blind.

00:50:06 Viivi Samuels

Yes, you should do.

00:50:11 Gina Turner

Well, Vivi, thank you so much.

00:50:13 Gina Turner

This was so great to have you as a guest.

00:50:16 Viivi Samuels

Oh, thank you for having me.

00:50:17 Kelly Allen

It was an absolute pleasure meeting you and just

00:50:20 Kelly Allen

an equal pleasure talking with you.

00:50:22 Kelly Allen

So thank you so much.

00:50:23 Kelly Allen

I appreciate it.

00:50:23 Viivi Samuels

Thank you, both of you.

00:50:25 Viivi Samuels

Pedagogy, a go, go.

00:50:29 Gina Turner

Pedagogy, go, go, go.

00:50:36 Kelly Allen

All right, that was absolutely delightful.

00:50:40 Kelly Allen

I'm glad that I had the opportunity to meet Vivi.

00:50:44 Kelly Allen

I love the accent.

00:50:47 Kelly Allen

But yeah, like holy crow, like she brings so much to the classroom.

00:50:54 Kelly Allen

Like I'm just

00:50:56 Kelly Allen

like gobsmacked.

00:50:56 Kelly Allen

I feel like I need to take one of her courses, not only to learn the material, but also to learn like how she engages with the craft of teaching.

00:51:05 Kelly Allen

Like that was incredible.

00:51:07 Gina Turner

I mean, she's got so much humility around it, which again, I think that's the most important thing.

00:51:12 Gina Turner

Well, one of the most important things we can bring into the classroom.

00:51:16 Gina Turner

And she just has that natural humility and curiosity and desire to know her students, which again, I would love to take more

00:51:26 Gina Turner

that.

00:51:26 Gina Turner

I also really appreciated her honesty about, no, there wasn't a teacher that was helpful to me.

00:51:32 Gina Turner

Not, I wish there had been for her, but I think sometimes we do.

00:51:37 Gina Turner

make it seem like, and I, again, I think I'm party to that.

00:51:41 Gina Turner

We sort of make it seem like this was, this path was lit by this, person carrying the torch of education for us.

00:51:51 Gina Turner

And I think a lot of us do get into education because of that.

00:51:55 Gina Turner

But some of us, like Vivi,

00:51:59 Gina Turner

are in it because they want to give what they didn't get.

00:52:02 Gina Turner

And how amazing is that to want to do?

00:52:06 Kelly Allen

Well, yeah, and while she was talking about that, I was thinking of two things.

00:52:10 Kelly Allen

Like first is like how we have that question crafted isn't so much it's a

00:52:15 Kelly Allen

Right, true.

00:52:19 Kelly Allen

I totally dropped the ball on that.

00:52:20 Kelly Allen

Like normally that's your question.

00:52:22 Kelly Allen

And I just, I saw a moment and I seized it and.

00:52:26 Gina Turner

That's what you should do, Kelly.

00:52:27 Kelly Allen

I effed it up.

00:52:28 Gina Turner

That's, you didn't.

00:52:29 Gina Turner

That is how, now you're happy that you've got psychologists in the room because we can talk you out of your little spiral that you're in right now.

00:52:37 Gina Turner

It's impossible.

00:52:38 Kelly Allen

It's a spiral that let us go and go.

00:52:42 Gina Turner

And you're smart enough and people like you.

00:52:45 Kelly Allen

Loved those little skits.

00:52:48 Kelly Allen

But people don't know that anymore.

00:52:50 Gina Turner

Oh, Stuart Smalley.

00:52:51 Gina Turner

Kids, Google Stuart Smalley, SNL.

00:52:55 Gina Turner

You're good enough, you're smart enough, and gosh darn it, people like you.

00:52:59 Kelly Allen

Oh, I just absolutely love those.

00:53:01 Kelly Allen

But okay, so, but like the other part that I wanted to talk about is like where, like how absence shapes meaning.

00:53:12 Kelly Allen

so how she was talking about how she didn't like have all these things so that when she teaches, she's like, she wants to fill that void that she wishes would have been present when she was a student.

00:53:26 Kelly Allen

I think that's like, it's not a deficit really.

00:53:31 Kelly Allen

Like those absences, like sometimes they can manifest themselves in a way that I think is beneficial if we look at them in a healthy way and

00:53:42 Kelly Allen

a psychologist, I'm hoping that you have the capability of doing that, which apparently you do.

00:53:48 Gina Turner

Well, and she had the wherewithal to come to a completely different country, not having learned English as a child and grappling with it.

00:53:57 Gina Turner

So there is something in Vivi that must also be like, I'm going to do this thing, right?

00:54:02 Gina Turner

So she had that grit.

00:54:03 Gina Turner

She had that determination.

00:54:05 Gina Turner

But that's such a fascinating way that you just put it, like making meaning out of sort of the void or making meaning

00:54:11 Gina Turner

out of what is missing.

00:54:14 Gina Turner

Because I think that is a thing we talk about in psychology is we can all make meaning from what we have been through, right?

00:54:20 Gina Turner

There's a concept called post-traumatic growth, right?

00:54:23 Gina Turner

And not to say that, well, not to call everything trauma, right?

00:54:27 Gina Turner

I think we kind of make that mistake in this day and age.

00:54:30 Gina Turner

We sort of want to label everything as a trauma.

00:54:33 Gina Turner

But to make those hard experiences, those hard challenges into meaning, moving into the future is one of the

00:54:41 Gina Turner

the things that sets us up for success in life.

00:54:45 Gina Turner

So, and I think Evie's a real testament to that.

00:54:50 Kelly Allen

And I kind of got to admit, as she was talking to us, like, are we hiring any full-time psychologists?

00:54:56 Gina Turner

I know.

00:54:57 Gina Turner

Oh, believe me.

00:54:57 Kelly Allen

I'm like, wow.

00:54:58 Gina Turner

Believe me.

00:54:59 Gina Turner

Yes.

00:55:00 Gina Turner

Yeah, she would have so many cheerleaders if we were able to do that, you know.

00:55:05 Gina Turner

So if anybody wants to donate to NCC.

00:55:10 Kelly Allen

Yeah, we should have that.

00:55:11 Kelly Allen

Like they had those like something like chair or whatever.

00:55:15 Gina Turner

Yeah, an endowed chair.

00:55:17 Gina Turner

How great would that be?

00:55:18 Kelly Allen

Oh, we got to work on that.

00:55:19 Gina Turner

We're going to work on it.

00:55:20 Kelly Allen

Okay.

00:55:20 Gina Turner

All right.

00:55:21 Gina Turner

Stay tuned, everyone.

00:55:22 Kelly Allen

All right.

00:55:22 Kelly Allen

Well, is that a wrap?

00:55:24 Gina Turner

I think that's a wrap.

00:55:25 Kelly Allen

All right.

00:55:26 Kelly Allen

Well, Gina, as always,

00:55:28 Kelly Allen

It was a pleasure.

00:55:29 Gina Turner

As always, a delight.

00:55:31 Kelly Allen

All right, see you next time.

00:55:31 Gina Turner

See you next time.

00:55:44 Kelly Allen

Thank you for listening to Pedagogy A-Go-Go, recorded in the Center for Teaching, Learning, and Technology at Northampton Community College in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.

00:55:52 Kelly Allen

Our producer in all things technology is Jeff Armstrong.

00:55:55 Kelly Allen

If you've got any questions, please send them to pedagogyagogo at gmail.com.

00:56:00 Kelly Allen

And be sure to follow us on social media at pedagogyagogo and click into our bio for copies of podcast transcripts, guest assignments, and other useful tidbits.

00:56:10 Kelly Allen

Until next time, this is Gina and Kelly saying we hope your day is filled with wonderful learning experiences.