Responsibility Is a Form of Power with Charley Zheng

What changes when we stop treating responsibility as a burden and begin recognizing it as a form of power?

In this episode of Roadmaps and Breadcrumbs, I sit with Charley Zheng, founder and steward of The Keep, for a conversation about intuition, embodiment, agency, and the choices that shape a life.

Charley shares how her years in corporate strategy gave way to a spiritual awakening that changed the way she understood herself and her direction. Together, we explore the body as a source of information, the role of somatic awareness in decision-making, the discomfort of transition, and what it means to participate fully in the creation of your own life.

Our conversation also turns toward lineage, including the influence of Charley’s mother and grandmother, and toward the legacy she hopes to build through compassion, curiosity, play, and a willingness to stay present with the full range of human experience.

Contact Information:

Neidy Lozada

Website:  Soulful Sojourners

Email: info@soulfulsojourners.com

Subscribe to The 1:1

Charley Zheng

Website: https://www.tothekeep.co/

Email: charley@tothekeep.co

Thank you for listening.

I hope today's conversation gives you something worth thinking about after the episode ends.

A question. A recognition. A thought worth returning to when you have the distance to hear it differently.

If you want to continue the conversation, listen to another episode of Roadmaps and Breadcrumbs and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

You can also learn more about my work, read my writing, and explore ways to work with me at www.soulfulsojourners.com. For information, email info@soulfulsojourners.com.

The views and opinions expressed by guests are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Neidy Lozada or Soulful Sojourners, LLC.

The content of this podcast is provided for informational and educational purposes only and does not constitute legal, financial, medical, mental health, or other professional advice.

Original music composed by Micah Silverstein. Music copyright © 2026 Neidy Lozada and Soulful Sojourners, LLC. All rights reserved. All scripts written by Neidy Lozada. AI used for research, structure, or organization. Artwork designed by Neidy Lozada, enhanced by AI in Canva.

Until next time, I am Neidy Lozada, and you have been listening to Roadmaps and Breadcrumbs.

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Neidy Lozada: 00:11 Hi everyone, I am Neidy Lozada, transformational strategist, spiritual integration coach and founder of Soulful Sojourners. And this is Roadmaps and Breadcrumbs, a conversation series about purpose, work, and legacy. Neidy Lozada: 00:25 At the center of these conversations is the relationship between the histories we carry, the lives and work we build, and what becomes visible with time. The roadmaps are the directions we inherit or create for ourselves. The breadcrumbs are the experiences, choices, and encounters that often take on new meaning when we have enough distance to look back. Neidy Lozada: 00:47 Here, I talk with women about the histories behind their work, the choices that shaped it, and what they can see now that they could not see while they were in the midst of it all. Neidy Lozada: 00:57 Today I'm privileged to sit with Charley Zheng, founder and steward of The Keep. Neidy Lozada: 01:02 Charley is an intuitive and Hakomi practitioner whose work brings together somatic awareness, intuition, and intentional action. In this episode, we talk about her years in corporate strategy, the spiritual awakening that changed her direction, learning to listen to the body as a source of information, and her belief that responsibility is a form of power. Neidy Lozada: 01:25 We also talk about the influence of her mother and grandmother, compassion as part of the legacy she wants to leave, and her determination to make room for fun along the way. And let me tell you, we had fun. Neidy Lozada: 01:38 So let's start the conversation and let's hear from Charley herself. Neidy Lozada: 01:42 Neidy (00:00) Hi, Charley. It is so good to have you here. For the listener, they already heard your bio, but we are going to give you the space to talk about who you are here. But I want to say this out loud. We are coming from a conversation that we had a couple of days ago when I was the guest in your podcast. And this conversation now. Brings the spotlight to you. I cannot wait to hear what you have to say about your work, your journey, where you see yourself. And also I want to hear a lot about how you connect with your client and who makes your ideal client. But before we go there, let's say it in your own words. Who are you and what do you do? Charley (00:48) Such a simple question, but deceitfully so. so my name is Charley Zheng, and I am a Hakomi practitioner, an intuitive and Hakomi practitioner. And how I would describe my mission and my purpose and what I do is ultimately I really love to help people get back into their bodies, listen to their intuition. And ultimately recognize that they have the power, choice, and agency to create an abundant life that is full of body and expression. Because I feel like that's ultimately what we're here on the earth to do, right? we have such limited time on earth. And for me, the big question that I love to ask is aren't we all striving toward becoming the creators of our own experience? And so that's how I would really organize the bulk of my work around serving this purpose and this mission. And the way that I serve that purpose and mission is really by working with people in sort of these three interwoven ways. And you know this about me. So the first is through intuitive entombment. So tuning into the subtle information that a person carries in their energy field, which Will include, you know, their emotional, their physical, their spiritual weather. and I track for the underlying energy in someone's question or life circumstance, and I mirror back those things below the surface so that we can start to work with them in a more conscious way. The second piece is I also work with people somatically. So, as I mentioned, I draw on a methodology called Hakomi, which is An incredibly gentle, mindfulness-oriented approach that's all about really slowing things down together to connect to the body's experience. So instead of thinking our way through a challenge or circumstance, I help people access the wisdom in their physical sensations, their feelings, emotions, and their inner world. And then last piece is what I'll call the coaching piece, which is really all about threading together what I what both the client and I feel are the most true and the most salient. And then I help them explore, you know, what are those aligned actions and behaviors that want to emerge because to change, we must also act, right? Awareness isn't is only half the battle. So those are the three interwoven pieces. And I would say just sort of in summary, at its core, you know, this work really is all about sitting with people in their big questions, in the unknowns of their big questions, and to help them reconnect with that inner knowing, their intuition, to help them trust that inner knowing. and for them to really start to lead from that place, a place of love versus fear. And ideally even have a little bit more fun along the way because, you know, it's like if it's not joyful and pleasurable also, then it's like, what's the point? So that's kind of like my long-winded way to Neidy (04:03) No, no, it's perfect. No, it's perfect because you answered my next question is what is Hakomi? For someone who doesn't actually know the terminology. but let's go into Hakomi a little more if you don't mind. what can you tell us about the history of Hakomi, how it came to be and how it is used across the board, aside from how you operate with within that framework? Charley (04:31) Yeah. So Hakomi is an experiential psychotherapy that was developed by a man named Ron Kurtz in the 1970s. and it draws from a number of different existing modalities. But I would say that the thing that really sticks out to me about Hakomi is that it draws from a lot of Eastern philosophies, Buddhism and Taoism. It also draws from other body-centered modalities, like focusing, if you're familiar with focusing, also draws from general systems theory, which really posits that individuals are self-organizing systems and that they all carry a blueprint, an internal blueprint for growth, healing, transformation. and so as I mentioned, Hakomi is really all about slowing things down a lot because we tend to be in our heads, we tend to want to Problem solve right away, we tend to want answers. and all of that tends to happen in the intellect, and that's why you find a lot of people who go to talk therapy who have all of this awareness of their issues and their patterns, and yet change is hard to really root down into. Change just like the the embody change just simply won't quite stick. And part of that is because people get stuck in the intellect. So Hakomi is about slowing down. And really connecting back down into the body's experience. And we do it in a way that is very collaborative, that is also very centered on mindfulness. So people may be familiar with mindfulness from daily meditation practice, but all that it really is about turning that attention inward and opening up the aperture of our awareness to really start to pay attention to. As I'm talking about this, what am I also feeling in my body? Because a big piece of Hakomi is that the mind and body are an integrated whole, and that whatever is going up here, there's a connection to how we're expressing it through the body. and so we're working together to piece those two, and it's very collaborative, it's very experimental. That's another element that makes Hakomi very distinct and unique. is that we're engaging in all of these little experiments and seeing how these experiments land and how people react to various experiments. And there's a whole there's a whole theory and there's a whole sort of process and procedure with those experiments that I can get into if you'd like, but I would say that it is very much sort of like a test a test and experiment approach that allows the client to access more information about ultimately how they're organized. Neidy (07:26) Can you give an example of one of those experiments in some capacity? Charley (07:31) Yeah. So one of the things that we do in Hakomi is that we're listening as someone is talking through a life circumstance or talking about where they're struggling with something, we're listening for what might be a limiting belief in this. so that's sort of what I was saying about the intuitive attunement is I'm tracking for what is being unsaid, but what is sort of organizing this person's experience. So I might have a hypothesis like you know, this person doesn't believe that their needs matter. And so I might come up with an experiment around that. And again, everything that we do in Hakomi is also very nonviolent. So we're not trying to impose an agenda. We're not trying to say, I'm right and I'm the authority of your own experience. So everything is really a hypothesis and we're testing with the client whether it's true or not. So I'll I might have an experiment where I ask the person to slow down and I will get have them become mindful and I will say something like your needs really matter as a way to test whether that that yes. Neidy (08:48) reaction to that and we are not in in session, right? I'm like and I know that they do, but I gather a client of yours how they go. And I I really interrupted you because I felt the words going like, Charley (09:04) Yeah. And no, I I love, I appreciate that you are mindful and you and you were in that awareness of your own internal reaction against that. Because when I say that, it really is meant to be a nourishing statement, right? It's meant to offer care and nourishment. But so often, you know, in Hakomi and what we see with clients is so many of us organize that nourishment out. And that is why we walk around, walk through the world with so much. tension and stress and anxiety because we're not letting in that nourishment because what happen so often is that we build up that defense as a way to protect ourselves from hurt and vulnerability. and so and so even in just that little reaction that you had, that's information, right? And so from that point we would slow things even more down and we would say, what was that reaction? about and what did you feel in your body as you heard that statement and then we'll kind of go through the process of going deeper and deeper and deeper. and so that's really kind of yeah the magic of it. Neidy (10:17) Actually, it is fantastic. And I I meant it when you said those words, I was like, huh. And I and I am in the in the business of reminding people that their needs matter, right? A physician, heal thyself. you know, I I thought about this for a moment when you began talking and then I let it go. Probably letting it go was what brought this moment, right? And my reaction, but I remember telling you a story when we last met. I think it was Tuesday of this week, whatever week you are in and we are in. And I remember saying that I had set up some goals that I put those goals into in, you know, gave them a date. And then I reverse engineered the whole process. But I also mentioned that my therapist had. mentioned at some point, hey, you gave this process a date and you worked through the whole thing. What I didn't remember at the time was that it wasn't the talk therapy that I was having what got me into that space. As I began thinking about our conversation and whatnot, I went like, yes, and yes, there was this space where I put some things in writing, I reverse engineered the whole thing. I began working with teeny tiny goals, whatever was right in front of me, that was what I was working on. But there was an immensely important somatic connection to what I was doing. So it was it was that process of feeling in my body what needed to happen next. And I remember saying this out loud over and over and over again. I am operational operationalizing so much so that people began making fun of me for the word operationalizing, but that's the word that I chose. I am operationalizing this process. I understand I'm treating this as if it were a project to manage. So the project managed manager management cap came up, but it was all somatic. It was Having and being in the moment and asking my being and my body and every fiber of me and my being what was necessary next. And following that intuition that we were talking about and that I call it honestly educated intuition, following it to the point that I was able to follow through and not be concerned with the dates that I had given myself. Mm-hmm. So that came up as you were talking. I'm like, that's exactly what I what I was trying to put into words when I was figuring out, you know, and the I am a process person. So we had our conversation and I then I went into process. And that was important. And I it was very interesting because I have failed, quote unquote, at therapy, at at talk therapy so often. especially in the last couple of years. And when I look back, is that I don't process through my through my mouth, you know, through my through whatever I say, I process through my body. So whenever I need to heal something, I go for a walk. I engage in movement. I dance with my dogs. So I was all of that came up for me. And I I would love to hear your reaction to what I just said and clients who come your way after so many years of talk therapy. Charley (14:07) Yeah. Well, I often find that intellectualization, and I count myself as a very intellectualized person. I tend to intellectualize things quite a bit. And it's easy for me, as I imagine it is for you too, to understand the concepts, the reasons, the rationale, the patterns. But sometimes I find that the intellectualization is actually a distancing mechanism. There's a there's a way in which when I can hold it in my mind, it's like I'm actually putting myself at a distance from the experience. but where things get processed to your point is in the body, you know, where it's those feelings, it's those sensations, it's the joy and it's the grief, it's the clarity and it's the confusion, it's the expansion and the contraction, you know, and I find that the thing with the body is that it needs to process all of that. I our bodies are our vessels for experience. And if we only process us o you know just parts of it and then holding the rest, that's how we experience the tension, the stress, the anxiety. And so when you talk about when I hear you talk about processing through the body What I hear in that is really letting yourself into your own experience, connecting to whatever that goal or the vision is, and then following sort of the unfolding of your own knowing. Because to your point and to what I was saying earlier is that we all have those instructions. We all have an internal blueprint for growth and transformation. And it sounds cheesy because we hear that as a platitude all the time, that we all have the answers within. and yet it's a platitude because it's also true. And then we all have a sense of what we need to be doing to move our story forward, to move the plot forward, even if it might not end up in the outcome that we want, but it's through the doing that we also gather more information, gather more data, so then we can course correct to to reach the thing that we're that we're looking to have. and so that makes a lot of sense to me that all of that information came to you as you allowed yourself to really feel into the things, bring yourself into the experience. and then, you know, the next step is as I'm sure you know, is then just to do the thing, to follow the instructions. Neidy (16:50) through to follow through. And you and I have been talking about breadcrumbs, right? The breadcrumbs that we leave for ourselves and even for others to follow at some points when and we're going to enter into that part of the conversation later on. But that's that word stayed with me and it comes came back now as you were talking, the breadcrumbs that we are leaving ourselves and the information that each and every one of those bring and carry. It yeah, within itself, right? Mm-hmm. Charley (17:23) Yeah, absolutely. And I know that life isn't simple. I know that life is it carries all sorts of complexity. but I do also at the same time think about that there's also so much simplicity to it too, in that we do get delivered these instructions all of the time. And that and that I feel like the the trick to it all or the secret to it all And sometimes it's also a very scary thing too, but you know, so much of it is about how much will you let yourself listen to yourself and to simply follow the instructions because at the end of the day, that's really all we have to do is listen to the information that comes in, discern the information that feels true versus information that's not mine or maybe is you know being put on me. and then just to take actions. on those instructions. And if you were to, yeah, sort of boil it all down to that, it makes it makes life seem as simple as that, right? Like you listen to yourself, you follow the instructions and you course correct. Neidy (18:35) Yeah. You know, I was thinking today that I and I think you heard me say this in in the past, we are so bombarded by so much information, so much misinformation every single day that we need to do something about disconnecting from other people's energy, other people's stories, the bombarding of news. And fake news and start connecting with our own essence. But we live in this world, right? We are in the world, but not of it. Is that what they say? And this morning it so happened that I'm very tired to see, you know, of seeing some things on my feed. And I'm talking about Facebook specifically. I don't do Facebook. I mean I don't do social media in general aside from my companies. My company has its pages and whatnot, but I have a personal, a really old personal account with Facebook that I don't see the need for anymore, to be honest. But this happened this morning. I saw something and I got so tired that I went and put I'm not interested. And I found out that now Facebook allows you to control your algorithm. So you can go in and you say, I want to see more of this and less of this. That's new. I hadn't seen that, at least look new for me. And that for me was so important because that was the first time in a while that I would that I was able to say, I can control what I see, what I pay attention to. I can control what comes through my feed. And I don't have to see the same things over and over again unless these are things that I really want to be a part of. And it goes to everything, you know, it goes to the way we communicate with one another. It goes to the people that we spend time with and the situations that we allow ourselves to spend our energy on or in, depending on what it is. And it goes also to what we allow to come into our energy field. in every way. So using that analogy, no, how can we tune into a better algorithm if you if a better you know an internal algorithm that is asking and inviting the things that actually will help us grow. And I'm not talking about only the things that are super positive because I am someone who wants to see the other side. I want to be informed about what's happening on the other side of what I love and like. And that's how we grow as well, right? Is by taking the time and and the energy to meet the other, to understand the other, to understand what we want and what we don't want. But let's talk about that energetic algorithm. And that's my today. Charley (21:43) Yeah, I love I actually really love that phrase, energetic algorithm. You might have to trademark that. Neidy (21:50) I am going to write it down right now. Charley (21:54) Yeah. Yeah. Well, what immediately drops in for me is it goes back again to the semantics, right? And that the body has a very simple language and that it primarily speaks to us through the energy of yes and no, through expansion and contraction. And so even Bringing back that idea of breadcrumbs. It's like letting ourselves follow those breadcrumbs of expansion, noticing those moments whenever information comes in, whenever we're interacting with people, when we're making decisions about what to do, how we're noticing what each of these decisions or moments are inspiring us in us, you know, whether our body starts to open to the idea or whether it starts to close to that idea. And so I would say that particular language of expansion and contraction is probably the most fundamental place to start when you think about discerning and when you think about curating and adjusting that energetic algorithm. And we were talking I was talking about this with a friend the other day, but you could even just simply boil it down to the energy of or to the idea of following the energy. So following where there is energy. And yeah, to your point, being mindful too of being open and curious as well, like setting boundaries and curating and discerning does not mean bypassing what's true and real about reality and the things going on around us. and so and so it's not about keeping those things at bay and then you know, living under an energetic rock, but also tapping into those places where you're curious to learn more. And curiosity itself, in my opinion, is an expansive energy. And so to just say it really simply, I think it's really all about following those places where you find yourself more open, more receptive, right? And that's a really good place to start. Neidy (24:20) It's a healthy place to start for many of us, not necessarily for everybody, but for many of us is welcoming and understanding. I I love the word discernment, honestly, because it allows us to assume responsibility for what we say yes and no to. Going back to your point about yes and no, I can decide energetic energetically or at a soul level. That an experience that I might not choose consciously is what I need in the moment to be able to grow to get past something. And I like the idea of the breadcrumbs from the perspective of understanding that we are leaving ourselves some information that we can go back to. And I love that you connected it in that way. I can go back to an experience and see what worked and what did not work for me, what advanced my purpose and what did not. And then make potentially the same decision or a new one that is in alignment with what I want to create. That's how I heard that. I think it's important to I I am I'm all as about assuming responsibility. Charley (25:40) Yeah. Neidy (25:41) Brutal self-responsibility. Uncompromising self-responsibility, but also integrated into who we are for real. Because it's easy to say, my bad. yeah, I I assume responsibility for this. But if something continues to happen over and over and over again, that does something that doesn't make you happy, right? Then you are not assuming responsibility for real. Yeah, that goes back to the talk therapy versus the actual integrated. Integrated somatic experience of being with whatever it is that we are working on. Charley (26:21) Yeah, absolutely. And when I hear you talk about responsibility, the instant phrase that came in for me is responsibility is a form of power. And so many of us want to have more power in our lives. We don't want to feel powerless. We don't actually want to be victims of our life. And when I hear you talk about responsibility, you know, it's really about being participatory in your life. And to live a life of intense engagement, which does ask a lot out of you. But if you're someone who wants to be authentic, who wants to create a life on your own terms, who wants to, you know, your dreams and goals to to come to light, then you're gonna have to really participate in that. because we know the universe isn't just gonna hand us things. sometimes that happens. You know, we can definitely have room for serendipity and synchronicity and surprise, but for the most part, you know, it goes back to what I was saying at the beginning is we're here to be creators of our own experience. And creating is a verb, it's an action, it's doing. And there is responsibility in that. There's responsibility that we have in making choices every single day, and the way that each choice compounds into a larger life, right? Like our life is literally made up of a million different choices that we've made, whether intentionally or unintentionally. And I feel like so much and I would say that both of what we do, you know, as coaches and as people who serve others and sit with others is really helping people reclaim that ability to choose, regardless of The circumstance Neidy (28:19) You know, I I this morning I got a text message from someone and I asked, How are you doing? And the response was, Well, you know that I have been built for adversity. Like, you know, you weren't, first and foremost. All of us experience adversity, but We are entering into the narrative that you have created for yourself. Yeah. If all you see is that you were created to withstand adversity, you will create more and more opportunities to be right about that. Whereas if you understand that you are making choices every single day that create the conditions for adversity. Create the conditions for loss, create the conditions for pain, or on the flip side, create the conditions for love, for appreciation, for companionship, for success in whatever way success is defined by the person, right? And for me, I the moment I read that, my response honestly was, okay. I had nothing else. How do you how do you answer? Something like that. And this is not a client. So with a client, I have a responsibility to have some form of response, right? but I'm like, okay. So Charley (29:56) Yeah. Neidy (29:57) the flip side of that was going into this lecture that I took. And talking about contraction and expansion. I don't have the energy for that today. also, but also I have the respect. that that is where this person needs to be. That's a different reality. I don't have to partake, but I respect that that's where you have to be. Charley (30:23) Right. Neidy (30:25) So I said journey a couple of times and I talked about paths a couple of times. And I'm going to switch a little bit there, although we are staying within the conversation. But one of the things I loved about our first engagement, the first time we talked, was your story. How you got to where you are right now. What brought you to this moment when you said, so this is the path that I am saying yes to. Mm-hmm. Can you whatever you feel comfortable saying, of course. but can you tell us a little bit how you got to this point in which you said, okay, I'm accepting the challenge. Here I am. Charley (31:09) Yeah, so I would I would say that the turning point for me was my spiritual awakening that happened in July of 2022. And at that point I had been working with a life coach. and at that Time in my life, I was working as a strategy director in a brand marketing, brand consulting agency. So fully immersed in corporate life and the corporate grind. and when I started work with this life coach, it was the work was really centered around the things that you would expect, like limiting beliefs. where my patterns are showing up that are keeping me small and suffocated. And so a lot of it was really sort of that intellectual kind of reprogramming. and one day I found out that my life coach actually facilitates underground psilocybin what do you call it under or psilocybin experience. And I was like, ooh, I'm curious about that. And my whole mindset when I entered that was like, okay, well, this is gonna be great. I'm gonna I'm gonna go on the psychedelic journey. I'm gonna revisit my childhood trauma, and then I'm gonna figure out everything that's wrong with me, and then I'm going to be fixed. So in my mind, I was like, this is a silver bullet. Neidy (32:54) I'm sorry. I'm laughing at you a little bit, you know? Charley (32:58) Yes, exactly. So naive. And that was what I wanted. That was what I expected. And that was why I immediately jumped at the chance when I found out that my life coach offered this type of service. and so as you might imagine, the day comes when I'm going on this journey with her. And The journey, the whole entire journey was about a half day of you know, sitting in her home, and with the sheets covered over me, the what do you call it, the sleep mask, and so ready to go super internal and ready to visit all of those childhood memories, et cetera, et cetera. And what ended up happening was nothing of that sort. And you know, have you ever heard that phrase of you don't get the medicine or you don't get the journey that you want, you get the journey that you need. Neidy (33:59) Yeah. Charley (34:00) And so it was that experience. I got nothing of that sort of okay, going back to past memories or treating childhood trauma. And instead it really was the most psychedelic journey I've ever had in my life. I was in space, I was in the cosmos, I was a jellyfish, I was a mermaid, I was in the ocean, I was talking to plants. And so it was the most fantastical thing I'd ever experienced. Clearly, I was a woman on drugs. Neidy (34:28) Yeah. Charley (34:29) But what ended up happening too was just it just felt like the layers of reality started to dissipate, and it was like the veil dropped, and all of a sudden I was visiting these three past lives, and I could access these lives so clearly. I was a a baker in 1700s Germany. I was a peasant woman in Japan. I was some form of royalty in Egypt or in some sort of dusty country. and the way that all this information came in was so vivid and bright and And even at the time I was like, okay, well, this is clearly the mushrooms doing its magic on me, but also there was a felt sense to that experience where this is more than just my imagination at work. And it really felt like the different layers of reality were dropping, and I was accessing all of a sudden this larger, more infinite space of input. And experience and you know, coming out of that journey, it really did reorganize the way that I saw the world all of a sudden. and so it was in that week of integration after the journey, where I was like, wow, like what is that? You know, I really didn't get anything that I thought I was going to get. But it it it shifted my orientation to the world in a really profound way where all of a sudden, My emotions were opened up. I was feeling things all of a sudden. my intuition came online in a really strong, powerful way. And it was like I could connect the dots of my experience in a completely, completely different way. And then that was really what opened me up to the understanding that, yeah, there is so much more to this material plane, so much more to this 3D reality that, and that there's Energy, that there's higher forces, that there's just bigger things than just me that are also at play here. And so that was what got me on the journey of learning to really deepen and cultivate my intuition. you know, coming back, building that practice of really tuning into myself, tuning into that intuition, listening to the voice, and really. becoming more of who I am. And so today, you know, three and a half years later, I feel like I am the most embodied than I than I ever have been. I feel like I am the most myself than I ever have been. and even though I will continue to be a work in progress, there is just that felt sense, that felt feeling of I'm finally here. Neidy (37:30) What a delicious story. I'm sorry, I laughed about I laughed at you a little bit. but at the same time, well but at the same time, I really love this story because it it's all about what is needed, right? More often than not, we think that we know what we need and want. And sometimes obviously we do, but there are so many opportunities that we have to just let go. And not everybody will want to do it or can do it. in the way that you did. But I think you offer, and correct me if I'm wrong, an alternative to that by going in, by doing the mindfulness, the meditations and connecting with the body, connecting with the self and the soul. Charley (38:18) Yeah, absolutely. I would say that that just that that day itself, the spiritual awakening, really allowed me to connect to myself in a way that felt so I don't know if this is the right word for it, but just that felt so piercing. And it felt like that opened up this larger opportunity to really understand who I am. so, you know. peeling back the layers, deconditioning in a way from all of the scripts and the programming from my early earlier childhood and into early adulthood. and that since then I've been on a in my own sort of like a separate mission of continuing to self-study and continuing to explore what's here because what's here is also always constantly evolving and shifting. And so it's almost like I know who I am now, but I'm also getting to know myself. Every single day. Every single day. Yeah, exactly. Neidy (39:28) Yeah, yeah. You have mentioned a few things that I find very interesting. One of them is of course the connection with the self and the connection with the body and how that works. And you also talked about the journey itself and the breadcrumbs. We have mentioned those. But there is something that I don't know if we have said it in in in the way that I intend to find, and I'm looking for the words right now. Because it's more energetic and more feeling based than anything else. It's the way I am sensing this is that growth is happening every single day in different ways. The important thing is how we respond. And how consciously we respond. The other thing that is coming for up for me a lot in these days, but in this conversation. Is the fact that sometimes the best thing we can do for ourselves is disconnect and recharge so that we can come back fully. And I'll give you an example of my own that I never ever ever took naps because I was so busy. I was working, working, working. My idea at some point in my career of taking a nap was seriously going into the bathroom and doing a headstand. I was doing a lot of yoga. The time. So I closed my the door. I went to the bathroom at work, closed the door, and I went into a headstand. And lo and behold, it was like having teenagers because the staff will go and knock on that door at some point. I'm like in the world. I this is like going back to having teenagers. I'm not not in the bath, not even in the bathroom. But that was my idea of taking a moment to myself. And lately. I came in contact with someone that I adore, Dr. Carmen Roman. Shout out to Carmen. she began talking about taking naps as part of her day-to-day reality and as part of her way of meeting the world. And lately I began taking a couple of naps. It can be 10 minutes, it can be five, it can be half an hour. But I sit at some point in the day, I disconnect from whatever I am doing, my computer, my cell phone, my everything. And I sit in that corner that I was mentioning to you on Tuesday, and in that corner of the sofa. And to just be for a moment. And just be in whatever way I need to be. I am not assigning sleep to it. I'm not assigning anything. And more often than not, I am. falling asleep for a little bit, which is all I need because then I come back re-energized. And it allows me that connection to myself, that stopping the grind, as I say, that that going into other people's needs and thinking about other people's needs or thinking about my business or whatever it is. And it allows me to connect with the source of whatever I need to handle or to do. Yeah, yes yesterday it was funny because I took that time later in the day and when I opened my eyes, all four of my animals were surrounding me. Charley (42:56) Right. That's right. Yeah. Neidy (42:58) Closely, very closely. I went I looked at the clock and I was like, it are you hungry? I seriously, I didn't finish hungry when they all rang to wherever each of each of them eats. I was like, I think they are hungry. Something is needed here. Someone needed me while I was just in the process of reconnecting with myself. And I love that you talk about that. That this is my version of reconnecting with self, of course. But I am curious about your clients. And I I want to jump into your clients. And I'm curious about how you work with them, how you said yes to a client? Who is that person? If you could paint a picture for me of who that person is. Charley (43:45) Yeah. It's a great question because this is something that I am still refining because as you know, my practice is newer. and so I'll just offer what I'm sort of playing with in the moment, but the thing that really lights me up is supporting people in pursuing their goals, their dreams, their aspirations. and because I'm going through a pivot myself, I find that people who are in that pivot place is incredibly compelling to me because it's that space of uncertainty, it's the space of the unknowns. And those are the spaces where we need to be listening more to ourselves because there's because w because there's so much external stuff out there and that like in these moments of the pivot is when you really need to be listening. And having that discernment of what's mine versus what's someone else's or what's being put upon me. and so I really love working with people in that transition space and really learning how to tune into themselves. I find that most people are already intuitive, they already have those answers, and that sometimes they just need that space to bring it to consciousness. And for me to be in that space with them and help them work through the discomfort and sometimes the fear of saying the thing that they already know to be true. because that's what that's what people aren't getting in their in their day-to-day lives. It's like they know what's true, but they hide it, they tuck it away. It's really scary to say out loud. And so in the space that I create, again, it's about slowing down and creating that. spaciousness, the conditions for that truth to emerge. and then it's like once it emerges, then it's like we can work with this in a conscious way and we can say, what are the choices that we want to make around this? do we want to move quickly on this or do we want to take our time? And so exploring the full spectrum of of of that together. Neidy (46:05) So you work with both men and women, right? Charley (46:08) Yes. Neidy (46:09) Do you have a preference of age group or or gender? You know, so some of those things I believe are important because I I in the beginning, I think we talked about it on Tuesday. In the beginning, I thought that I was going to serve everybody in every way because I had over 40 years of experience in so many different fields and all of that good stuff. But there was something that came up for me, and I think it's coming up for you if I am hearing you correctly, that it's all about being present with the person that lights me up. And the program that actually lights me up. And I I love the way you you say it, and I have it here in some of the notes from the document I sent you. You call it the messy middle. people who are in the messy in the messy needle. And I love the messy. I love it. I seriously Charley (47:09) It takes a special person to love the messy. Neidy (47:12) Well, if you think about it. Charley (47:15) So yeah. Neidy (47:17) The messy is when the discomfort is there in such a way that you can no longer ignore it. Mm-hmm. So I love that messy middle. I love that muddy moment when you go like the only way I can shed this and is by cleaning. It's by by taking action. and actually cleaning this mess that I got myself into in whatever way. You know, it doesn't have to be a mess in the way that people think about messes, but I am this uncomfortable enough in this moment that I need to do something about it. Mm-hmm. So going back to your client, I am so curious about you know specifically for people listening, If you were and you already painted a picture of their problem, you know, their pain point, if you may. what how do you walk them through those first moments? I'm not talking about the whole of the engagement. And I think you work with people between three and six months, right? So what happens when someone contacts you for the first time and as we so well do, dumps everything on you in the first few minutes of a conversation? How do you sift through all of that? Charley (48:48) Yeah. Well, what comes to me right off the bat is, you know, really depends on the person. And I think that's where the intuitive attunement piece really comes in, is that some people are very ready to get to work and they're very problem focused and they want to start solving things right away. and that's okay, there's nothing wrong with that. but then there are some people who come in, you know, especially because so much of what I do is somatic. That there's so much in the beginning that is really about listening and offering them that relationship of I'm so interested in what you have to say, and I'm so curious about how you think, and I'm so in awe of the way that you you've organized your life thus far. And so again, it depends on the person because some people can take to the somatic experiments really easily, and it's like stuff just comes up. right away, very quickly, and we can really start to get to work on those things. But with others, there is so much of a relationship building process, at least in the first few sessions, I would say, you know, three, four, even five, of getting to know each other, establishing that sense of safety. because some people, you know, won't be able to stay in somatically all the way through. And so my approach with them is just taking maybe more micro mindful moments and helping them build that comfort and build that safety and and even starting to give them some language because some people don't have language for what's going on inside. and so, you know, my emphasis in general across the whole arc of the journey is that it really is about relationship. I'm here to be relational. I'm here to support you. I'm here to listen. And whatever you may need of me, you know, I'm here to to provide that for you. And so, yeah, and because it's so intuitive and things change always, I'm always adjusting my approach with people as well, depending on the given day and maybe what they need more or less of. Because some people will want Full somatics. Some people will be like, I don't have the capacity for that today. so some sessions will just be talking and listening and offering opinions and perspectives and things like that. So Neidy (51:26) That's super cool. I have a a the flip side of that question that I asked is who is not your client? You know, I I it took me a while, and let me let me catch this with this few sentences. It took me a while to understand that I could say no to some people. And some pro not people, but the problems they bring, mainly because I don't care about that. I I'll say what it is in just a moment. I don't care to work with couples. That's not my area of interest. I because mainly because I believe that for a couple to work out in the way it needs to, people need to do their own work. So I would rather work with the individual. And if you bring relationships to our conversation, I'm going to turn it into Let's talk about your relationship to yourself. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. You know, yes. Once you improve the quality of your relationship with yourself, your relationship with someone else has a better chance of improving. At least that's how I see it. So who is not your client, you know, in in this moment? Charley (52:44) Yeah. It's a great question. I would say the person who's not my client is probably the person I was when I wanted the diamond journey, expecting that, okay, this is going to fix me and all my problems are gonna be gone. I I I would I would probably avoid those people who are wanting silver bullets, quick fixes, because with Somatic work. This is really about ultimately setting you up for a lifelong process of knowing how to connect back to yourself, knowing how to read your bodily signals. And that and that takes time. And what we often find, what and I found in doing work for myself somatically is that things like fear, doubt, anxiety, they never go away. They will consistently show up and they will and they will get in the way and they'll and they'll tempt us to listen to those voices. but so much of what somatic practice has done for me is building the capacity to hold those, hold those things, and make space for them and even stay with some of those sensations, but ultimately find The things, the values, the energy, the things that matter more than the fear and the doubt. And so in that sense, you know, somatic work is about becoming the fullest, most embodied versions of ourselves that can hold more of the human experience. Right. And so I I don't think I could work with people who only want the good parts. And don't have the ability or don't want to make room for the bad parts or or want to bypass the bad challenging parts. because this is this work ultimately is skill building to hold all of it so that we have more choice, we have more agency and power to make our way through the full spectrum of the good and bad, right? Neidy (55:05) Yeah. And the way I read it is also we are here with a client for a season and a reason. We're not meant to be with them for a lifetime. And so building those core competencies, as you were saying, is the way to go, right? It's the way to understand oneself in such a way that we can take over, take the baton. I I really appreciate that. and your clarity of who is not your clients. Because not everybody can say so clearly who they're not willing to work with. And it has nothing to do with the person It has to do with our capacity for holding other people's spaces and other people's hopes, dreams, and messiness. I love I again, I love the messy. Yeah, but it's important to know that. So I really want to ask a few more questions. But the first of those questions, Charley, is is there anything you wanted to talk about that I didn't ask you? Hmm. Charley (56:24) Nothing comes up around that. No, I feel like we've covered a really great base and there's just been a range of things that we've already addressed. So n nothing specific comes up for me in this moment. Neidy (56:36) Super cool. So I have three questions for every single person who comes through my door and my virtual door at that. And they are basically the first one is Who made you? who composes your lineage, your ancestry? Who do you remember as being so important in your upbringing that you're bringing this person or these people into your day-to-day and the way that you present yourself to the world? Hmm. Charley (57:16) Wow, that's a that's a deep question. Neidy (57:19) I am deep. Charley (57:22) You are you're very deep. Neidy (57:26) I am a whale. Charley (57:27) Yeah, I feel like I'm already experiencing the gift of bring as a coach to probe in this way. I th so I'll just speak to what is most present in my mind for me right now is my mother and my grandmother, because those were those two were my nuclear family. I grew up as a single child, an only child. And a large part, the majority of my life, my childhood, teenhood, early adulthood, was really defined by them. I didn't really have other family members to connect to. and so I feel very strongly that they are very much a part of my story because they were the two that ultimately raised me. But I also had a very contentious relationship with my mother because she was very strict and she was very controlling. And I I was I would say that, yeah, it's interesting because I growing up, I vowed to become the opposite of my mother. And in ways I have become that, but in in other ways I have also become. my mother too Neidy (58:56) Ha ha ha. Charley (58:58) in in in her in her stubborn ways, but also in the ways that she is so very strong and resilient. And I will say that the older I get, the more I really can see those parts of her. Whereas when I was younger, it was like I could only see the parts that brought me misery. And and now I I feel like I have the gift with age and a little bit of maturity that I can see her in her own fullness and see the ways in which she's really strong, really determined, so dedicated and committed to her family and her and her internal moral code that I'm even just like, I would love to have a little bit more of that in me. and so, and my grandmother was the was often the the softer. more pliable one in the in the family. and so I like to think that I have a little bit of that both, that hardness and that softness. Neidy (1:00:04) That is so cool. I think you and I talked about the fact that whenever they ask me who is my hero, and I go, my mom. You know, Charley (1:00:14) Yeah. Yeah. Neidy (1:00:16) I don't go to any of the historical figures or religious figures. I go like, no, hands down, my mom. And the same way that you're saying, a relationship could not have been more contentious. Charley (1:00:29) Yeah. Neidy (1:00:31) The I cannot even say the word in English. but it was it was part of of who it is part of who I am. And I when my kids try to well they stopped doing it because of my of my responses. But whenever they tried to come at me with you're just like grandma, I'm like, thank you. You should tell her that. Charley (1:00:56) Uh-huh, uh-huh. Neidy (1:00:58) They meant it as an insult, by the way. Charley (1:01:02) Yeah, yeah, I I can Neidy (1:01:03) So yeah. But it I think that what they were responding to were the strong parts of my mom that I really wanted to hear. And I some sometimes say things, I'm like, my god, mom is here right now. And she's with us, she's still alive. Charley (1:01:18) But yeah. Neidy (1:01:20) It's interesting to hear it her the her voice coming out of me. Yeah. Charley (1:01:24) Right, yeah. Neidy (1:01:26) So I have another question. If you're ready, Charley (1:01:28) Yes. Neidy (1:01:29) all right. So You know, and we talked about this several times, that we are all living a legacy. Doesn't matter if we're conscious of it or not. And I'm wondering what is it that you're doing today to build that legacy that you want to consciously leave behind? Charley (1:01:51) Compassion. That's a huge value that I live by. And it's compassion and having that presence for all parts of you, the good and the bad, and being able to stay with those parts instead of abandoning them. And so compassion is really how I Try to live my life and it's also what I hope that I offer to other people in sessions, sitting with them, because I feel like ultimately that is the skill to walk through life with more compassion, more forgiveness, more softness, more ability to hold all parts of the human experience with just a little bit more appreciation and gratitude. Neidy (1:02:45) You used the word curiosity earlier as well. And it goes hand in hand with compassion, right? Yeah. but I really like that. So I have one more question for you. In 50 years or maybe a hundred years, what is the story, one story that people are going to be telling about you? That you really want them to say tell, yeah. Charley (1:03:10) That Charley also had a lot of fun in the process. That she did the work, that she pursued the goals and the dreams, probably failed a few times and and and really got down on herself about things, but also still at the end of the day gave her a lot of gave herself a lot of room to have fun and play. Neidy (1:03:39) That's super cool. That is super cool. Well, what else can we ask for, right? Having a life where we worked, worked, we we work, we produce, we are valuable members of society, but we also do wine tasting. Charley (1:03:54) Absolutely. Absolutely. And that fun part is so essential to me because I am someone who has a tendency to take, to take myself too seriously. I'm a Scorpio, I can go really deep, I can ruminate, I love being in the underworld with people. And so for me, it's so helpful to remind myself too that it doesn't all have to be serious. It doesn't all have to be shadowy. and that there's fun and play and just letting go of the perfectionism of things as well is so important in enjoying more of our lives, walking around with le holding less tension. And so fun I think is just such a it's essential medicine for all of us. Neidy (1:04:38) Love that. And it is so interesting that you're talking about the underworld. I yeah, you well, you will see it because I think you're on my mailing list. But I am finishing up the last words that I have to clean up of a newsletter in which I am talking precisely about that. We are entering the time of the year where I willingly become my version of Persephone. I go willingly into the underworld. And I stay there until the spring. So willingly entering those spaces and willingly coming, becoming someone who can walk with another into the underworld, be there, and bring out the best of what can come and you quant that could potentially be manifested. It's a gift. Not everybody wants to go there. personally and with another. And you see it. You see it every day, how many of us want to lift our clients very quickly instead of allowing them to be miserable for a moment and going there with them and sitting in misery for a moment until they are ready to come out. I do something that if you talk to any of my clients, everybody will say the same thing. All of my clients are used to me kind of tapping their forehead virtually when they say when they say something that I go like what are you talking about? I go like this and I tap their well through the camera of course their forehead with my finger because it's my way of saying okay I let you be wherever you needed to be for a moment. Now it's time to snap out of it and let's come back. Let's do the work. I will walk with you through this moment, but enough is enough. Charley (1:06:41) Yeah. Neidy (1:06:42) And I it sounds to me like you have the capacity of staying with them in that space even longer than I can. Charley (1:06:51) Yeah. And that's the nonviolence piece of Hakomi, but at the same time, there's something to your point, there's a limit to that, right? And oftentimes for me what I've experienced is when you sit in it long enough with them, they actually feel, will feel their own frustration of like, this is too much. And they'll say it so like they'll be like, this feels pathetic. And then I will and then as an experiment, you know, will offer it. It's like, yeah, this is pathetic. And then and then to see, you know, where else their body and their energy takes them. So to your point, it's really important that we don't just wallow, but that we find what is the information in that, what's useful about this, and where can we shift the energy or shift the direction of it that moves you towards more of what you want because wallowing is not gonna get you any closer. Neidy (1:07:50) Not at all. No. It's a super cool place to be for a little while, but nope. Yeah. All right. So we're coming to the end of our conversation, but I wanted to say a few things before we go. I really want to thank you for your presence, for your knowledge, for your energy. When we were introduced at least as in conversation with the person who introduced us. She said very clearly, at least to me, she said, Charley is an energy healer, and the two of you need to get together. Uh-huh. I'm like, okay, so be the bridge. I am, I am game. Let's do this. And I cannot say enough about how happy I am for the opportunity to meet you, for the opportunity to be in your presence, to collaborate so quickly in the way we have collaborated. And your contact information, website, Substack, and all of that good stuff, is going to be linked to the description of this episode. So if anybody wants to get in contact with you, I would love it if they can do so through the connection that we are making here and the information we are leaving. But for the listener, is there anything else and or any place where you really want them to connect with you. Charley (1:09:12) I would say website and email i are probably the best. there's Instagram as well, but I mean all all channels are are included. Yeah. Neidy (1:09:24) Perfect. Perfect. So thank you, Charley, for your time, for your beauty, for Charley (1:09:30) Gosh, thank you. Yes, no, thank you so much. I'm so grateful for the opportunity to, like you said, collaborate in this way. And it's just been so easeful and instant with you. And I know that that doesn't always happen with everybody. And so the level of professionalism that you bring and just the way that you are so connected to yourself and your body and your intuition and your senses, it's just made all of this really. fun and enjoyable and easy. And so I just wanna thank you for that. And yeah, getting to experience your gift in this way is is really special. Thank you. Grateful. Neidy (1:10:11) So, Charley (1:10:12) Thank you. Neidy (1:10:14) I am grateful as well. So without further ado Charley (1:10:21) All right. Well, talk soon and excited to yeah, continue the conversation in other ways as well. Neidy (1:10:28) we definitely will. All right. All right. Bye. Neidy Lozada: 40:00 Thank you for listening. I hope today's conversation gives you something worth thinking about after the episode ends. A question, a recognition, or a thought worth returning to when you have the distance to hear it differently. If you want to continue the conversation, listen to another episode of Roadmaps and Breadcrumbs, and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. You can also learn more about my work, read my writing, and explore ways to work with me at soulfulsojourners.com. The views and opinions expressed by guests are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect those of Neidy Lozada or Soulful Sojourners LLC. The content of this podcast is provided for informational and educational purposes only, and does not constitute legal, financial, medical, mental health, or other professional advice. Original music was composed for this podcast by Micah Silberstein. Music Copyright 2026, Neidy Lozada and Soulful Sojourners LLC. All rights reserved. Until next time, I am Neidy Lozada and you have been listening to Roadmaps and Breadcrumbs.