What Comes Next for Nebraska Students? A Conversation with Commissioner Brian Maher

What does student success look like after graduation? Nebraska Commissioner of Education Dr. Brian Maher joins NSWERS Executive Director Matt Hastings to discuss why schools need a clearer view of students’ paths through college, training, and work. Drawing on his years as a classroom teacher, Maher explains how early literacy, critical thinking, and career exploration help prepare students for whatever comes next. They also discuss how connected education and workforce data can help Nebraska leaders move beyond snapshots of performance and make better decisions for students and communities.

Learn more about the NSWERS data products mentioned in this episode:
Impact of Chronic Absenteeism on Academic Outcomes in Nebraska Brief
Early Reading Proficiency in Nebraska Brief

NSWERS | Answers for Nebraska
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[00:00:02] Matt Hastings: Welcome to the NSWERS Podcast, a series exploring the intersection of education, workforce, and the power of data to drive better decisions for Nebraska's future. I'm your host, Matt Hastings, executive director of the Nebraska Statewide Workforce and Educational Reporting System, or NSWERS. At NSWERS, we connect information across Nebraska's K-12, postsecondary, and workforce systems so our state can better understand how people move through education and into careers. That connected perspective helps us answer questions that no single school, college, agency, or organization can answer on its own. Are students successfully moving from one stage to the next? Are we losing talent?

Which pathways are working well? And where could changes in policy, practice, or investment make the greatest difference? We turn that connected information into research, interactive tools, and decision-ready data to help education leaders, policymakers, communities, and others working to strengthen Nebraska. If your work depends on understanding Nebraska's education to workforce pipeline, NSWERS is here to help make that system more visible and more actionable. Today, I'm joined by Dr. Brian Maher. Brian, before we get into our conversation, would you like to introduce yourself to our listeners and tell them a little bit about your role and the work that you do?

[00:01:27] Dr. Brian Maher: You bet. Brian Maher, I am the Commissioner of Education for the state of Nebraska, beginning my fourth year. And the work that I do really is compliance and regulatory from a school-specific point of view, K-12-specific point of view. But I would say broader than that, we really try to pride ourselves in providing good service to schools, to students, and communities around the state as well.

[00:01:57] Matt Hastings: Today we'll talk about how Nebraska can connect K-12 education to what happens after graduation, how leaders can move from simply having information to actually using it, and why collaboration across education and workforce systems matters for students and communities across the state. So let's get started. Commissioner, you've served as a teacher, an administrator, a higher education leader, and now commissioner of education. Looking back, what experiences have most shaped your philosophy as an education leader?

[00:02:33] Dr. Brian Maher: Easily. The answer is my time as a classroom teacher. It has really informed everything that I've done. Also, when I sit in my office and think about, hey, this would be a good thing to do, if I didn't have that experience to really run through my own lens of what does that mean in the classroom, I think much of what I would do or think about would be incomplete. So all of the experiences have mattered. I don't think any were more important than being in the classroom at the beginning of my career.

[00:03:08] Matt Hastings: Great. As commissioner, what does student success mean to you today? And has that definition changed over the course of your career?

[00:03:19] Dr. Brian Maher: It has. It has changed over the course of my career. I think what it means to me today really is to be able to see where students are and look back. And I'll tell you what I mean by that. The students that I taught at the earliest portion of my career are well into their 50s now. And so no longer do I look to see, did they master the Pythagorean theorem, as I was a math teacher, or even how did they do in my class? Did they get an A? Did they get a C? What did they do? Rather, it's have they gone on to be quality contributors to society? So I have that body of work now to look back to see what success has looked like. And I think that's helped shape the difference in how I view success.

I think those immediate snapshots are still really, really important. Those leading indicators of what is your grade in this class or how did you do on the NSCAS from a proficiency perspective. I think all those things are still important, but they pale in comparison to the big picture: What are students doing after they leave us? The lagging indicator, I think, is whether they are successful contributors to society.

[00:04:42] Matt Hastings: In addition to leading Nebraska's K-12 education system, you currently serve as president of the NSWERS Executive Council. Why is it important for Nebraska's education sectors to work together around a shared vision for shared information?

[00:04:58] Dr. Brian Maher: Yeah, I think it's because we really all have that same goal and that goal is to develop quality contributors to our state's GDP and well-being. And we don't do that alone in K-12. We don't do that alone at the community college level or the state college level or at the university level. But all together, we have a shared vision. So to help align our work, I think it's really important that we know what each other are doing and also that we're able to help each other out so that we're not stepping on one another or being redundant in processes. So I think there's a lot of things that we can do together.

Also to elaborate on that, part of our success I think is if somebody does go to community college, university, state college, what sort of success do they meet with at that level? That helps us understand at the K-12 level, what sort of success we actually had versus the success we think we might have had. Throw the world of work into that as well. And that's just another layer. So I think our work is done much better when we know what those with a similar mindset are doing around us.

[00:06:31] Matt Hastings: K-12 schools are often measured by outcomes that occur before the student graduates. So how has having access to education to workforce information changed the conversation about long term student success and what that really looks like or even has it?

[00:06:50] Dr. Brian Maher: Yeah, I think it has and I think we're just on the cusp of it really changing things. Those things that I think we used to see as the end-all, be-all, I think, are becoming leading indicators, as I mentioned. How did you do on your ACT test? How did you do on your fourth grade NSCAS proficiency? Can you spell just going down by grade level there? I think all those things are still really important, but they're more important in the moment than they are long term. And when we can get that long term data I think it can help, number one, drive us to say what we're doing here really makes sense and we are on the right path.

Conversely, it might be able to tell us, hey, we're doing some things that are really unnecessary and we need to change our focus on how we develop kids. Because I don't think anybody's going to say what you do with a child between their pre-K years and high school graduation is unimportant. I just want to make sure that we're maximizing the time that we have with students. And in that process, I don't think has changed substantially over the last 50 years, maybe the last 100 years. But I see the end of that really beginning to change on making sure that we have students ready for whatever's next after high school. And I would offer this as evidence.

If you look at our new strategic plan, the third portion of our strategic plan is preparing students for the workforce. Now that doesn't mean we're jumping over opportunities to go into the armed services or opportunities to go to community college or the university or state college. Rather, it says whatever is next for the student, we want to make sure that they're prepared. And I think the longitudinal data that we can look at and really look at to help us determine whether or not we're on the right path or not.

[00:09:02] Matt Hastings: Yeah. School districts have access today to really enormous amounts of information. What separates information that simply reports what happened from that which actually helps leaders improve outcomes?

[00:09:21] Dr. Brian Maher: It's interesting. I was talking earlier this year in Kearney to a group of administrators from around the state. I think it was towards 1,500 people. And I held up three different assessments of how we're doing as a state. And one had us dead last in the nation in terms of our performance. One had us first in the nation in terms of our performance and one had us ninth in the nation. And I told the group, if you want us to be number 22, I bet we can find some data that shows that we're number 22. So my point is, there is a lot of information and there's a lot of noise. So the key is to have something that makes sense to you to help drive your goals.

And for us in Nebraska right now, it's our state assessment. It's NSCAS. It's the ACT assessment as we give that to all high school students. And it is our NAEP, national assessment to a lesser degree, but still important to us. And then I think the thing that we have to add to that to really round that data out is how do our kids do once they leave our school system? And that data right now is rare. That's where I think NSWERS really fills a void for K-12, for all of our state, but for K-12, we can begin to answer that question. Are our students meeting with success? And so I think those are the things that we can narrow our focus to.

I think we look at all of that other information, but what drives change are those elements that I just talked about?

[00:11:03] Matt Hastings: Sure. Yep. NSWERS has developed kind of a growing portfolio of research briefs, interactive stories, dashboards and things. How have you used some of those products as the commissioner and are there particular findings or information from that process that have informed any statewide priorities that you have or even just conversations with school districts?

[00:11:32] Dr. Brian Maher: Both. And again, I'll offer as evidence our strategic plan. When I say both, conversations, but beyond that actual action at the department level, our strategic plan is three priorities and one internal commitment. And priority one is to accelerate student achievement. And then we break accelerate student achievement up into a couple of parts. One of those parts is literacy at the early grades. And as you well know, NSWERS did something I think substantial in that particular area. Most everybody in the department is well aware of that research and that information, which is crucial to success for students as they go through their K-12 years. So that's one area.

And that's established in our strategic plan. Another place under that first priority in the strategic plan on accelerating achievement is chronic absenteeism. You know the thought that for students to be their best they need to be in school and again as you know well There's information that NSWERS put out on chronic absenteeism. So both of those particular points of view not only have been points of conversation within the department, but they find a very pronounced position in our strategic plan. And our strategic plan is something that the folks within the department have worked on.

So from a staff perspective, we see those things as important, but also our board our state board, eight people from across the state, agreed unanimously that these are the things that are important to the Department of Education. So I think within the department, including the staff and the State Board of Education, we believe these to be really, really important pieces. And the NSWERS work is, I would go so far as saying critical to how we put that together.

[00:13:40] Matt Hastings: One of the greatest strengths of NSWERS, I believe, is its ability to understand how students are or are not making those transitions beyond high school, whether they go on into college, whether they go to the workforce directly, to college, then the workforce, to the workforce, then to college, or some mix of all of those things. How does that broader perspective help the Department of Education better support individual school districts?

[00:14:07] Dr. Brian Maher: Yeah. One thing, again, a very pronounced position in our strategic plan. Our third goal is to prepare students for the workforce. And some people might say, are you skipping pieces here like college, community college, universities? And the answer is no. We want to make sure that when you leave 12th grade, when you leave the high school setting, that you're ready for whatever is next. And as you pointed out, next might be the workforce and then back to college or whatever. We want to make sure in a K-12 position that we do what we can do to make sure that students know how to think critically to take that next step in life. It's not so important to us what that next step is.

We're not developing welders or doctors or anything else on that occupation continuum. Rather, we're developing people who can go to wherever their heart takes them on that occupation continuum. So I think that's number one. Number 2, I think we can begin to share with schools throughout the state of Nebraska what the data says and what the data shows. And hopefully that mindset of developing our students for whatever is next really permeates the K-12 setting in Nebraska.

[00:15:31] Matt Hastings: Right. Education is changing rapidly. At least the assessment now is that education is rapidly changing with new technologies all the time, seemingly new student needs to deal with all the time. Where do you see Nebraska's greatest opportunity to lead over the next decade?

[00:15:54] Dr. Brian Maher: I'm going to be a broken record here, Matt. I think there are two things that Nebraska really needs to focus on to lead. One is not getting so hung up in the noise and the constant change that we forget the best thing we can do for students is to help them think critically. And part of that I think is beginning really, really early in their educational lives with being able to read and read and being able to understand math and math facts, not because we need to develop great readers or authors, although we do, and not because we need to create great mathematicians, and we do, but we need to create critical thinkers and folks who know how to consume information and do it well.

I believe those are the building blocks and have been forever. So from that perspective, I don't know that education has changed A lot. Now, I'm focused on the very earliest learners here, where I really believe education has changed on what's the focus maybe between 3rd, 4th, 5th grade and the time that they leave the high school setting. And that's where I think we need to really focus on our, again, our strategic plan, the third goal on our plan. developing students for the workforce. I also think a renewed emphasis will be in the career and technical education area.

When I think back to the 1980s when I got into the profession and career and technical education in my myopic view at that point in time was maybe learning how to change oil in a car, a tire, build a birdhouse or maybe a bookcase. And that was about it. You were going to get dirty. You were going to get a little greasy in there. And now career and technical education still has the manufacturing component, but it has so many other components. I think of a few months back when I had the tour of Southeast Community College here in Lincoln.

And we got to see not only the manufacturing side of things, but we also got to see the medical professions piece of things and what was going on if you wanted to go in onto the medical side of things, whether you wanted to be a nurse and there are multiple nursing options, but also if you wanted to be a doctor. So the number of things in the medical profession that CTE exposure would set you up to do was really incredible. And by the way, those were high school classes at Southeast Community College that I was seeing. And then I think I'll extend that out to the culinary arts area that we saw when we were out there.

So we're walking in one building seeing all of these things and I'm leaving some of it out. But number one, kids have an exposure to occupations that they didn't have not so many years ago. And you don't have to go back to the 1980s. It wasn't so long ago. They didn't have that exposure. And not only do they have exposure to see what occupations exist, but they actually get some hands-on experience to see would I like the pieces that I need to like to be a doctor? Would I like the pieces that I need to like to be a welder? And again, on that occupational continuum, there are so many options that as a kid, many adults weren't exposed to. And I think we're really gaining in that area.

So developing students at the very earliest years with just some educational basics and then really expanding their horizons on the options available to them, that's where I think Nebraska can lead going forward.

[00:19:56] Matt Hastings: Yeah, I agree. And I think we have some research at NSWERS coming out here in the next couple months that speaks specifically to that question around CTE, particularly in healthcare, when students take that in the high school years, and its implications further on into the workforce. And those students are matriculating to postsecondary education at higher rates. They're matriculating into health study areas at higher rates and into the health workforce in Nebraska at higher rates. So it's all of the things that I think you're describing around providing the opportunities for young people to be exposed to the world of work while they're still making decisions about their future.

But we're also beginning to be able to pair that with empirical information from Nebraska that says, and oh, by the way, this is really, really effective. which I think is pretty powerful.

[00:20:57] Dr. Brian Maher: I'll be really anxious to read that.

[00:21:00] Matt Hastings: If every superintendent and school board member in Nebraska could answer one question with confidence using data, what would you want that question to be?

[00:21:10] Dr. Brian Maher: Probably would be a toss-up. My mind originally went to, are our students prepared for the world of work? Now that our work is done, are our students prepared for the world of work? And again, as I've said other times in this interview, that might mean with a stop at university or with a stop at community college or an entrance into the armed services, whatever that next step is, are our students prepared for that? Hopefully we can answer that yes. The other thing, I might just back it all the way down to that real leading indicator are our students proficient readers in third grade.

When I look at all of the worlds that open up to a student who is a proficient reader, number one, academically, both short term and long term for students. And number two, socially, the lack of an ability to read can cause some real detriments to students. And 3rd, the ability to be an earner. So the socioeconomic implications of somebody not being able to read already at that early age of being a third grader, the question might be, are our students proficient readers in third grade? One of those two questions. I need to think a little deeper on it.

[00:22:43] Matt Hastings: Sure. No, I appreciate that answer because there's something about the reading in particular that I think is so powerful because we spend a portion of our time in school learning how to read, our early years, and there's a point at which you begin to make this conversion from the process of learning how to read to reading to inform how you learn. And if you can't master that first piece of it, learning how to read, you can't succeed later on where you have to be able to read to then be able to learn in the future. And it's just so fundamental that if it's missing, there's huge implications.

[00:23:28] Dr. Brian Maher: There really are. There really are.

[00:23:31] Matt Hastings: You've spent a career helping students prepare for life beyond the classroom. So what gives you the most optimism about the future of Nebraska education?

[00:23:40] Dr. Brian Maher: I would say all of education, at least in the United States, where I know it pretty well, but definitely in Nebraska. I think one of the things that gives me great optimism is we're learning more and more every day about the teaching and learning process. What does it take to be a good teacher and what does it take to make sure that our students are learning, not just getting information and regurgitating information, but I think that process is getting better and better and better. So I think as we go and we pay a lot of attention to how students learn and subsequently then how teachers need to teach, I'm really optimistic.

In this role, I get to work and see how our colleges and universities are preparing our teachers. So our educator prep professionals around the state, I think, have grown along with us, particularly in the area of evidence-based instruction in the science of reading. No longer is it just reading to make sure that kids enjoy reading. because not every student does enjoy reading, but we have to make sure that they know how to read. That science, that structure is there. And I think you're going to see something really come along in that area in math. And I think we're getting better and better and better at how we teach and how we learn. And that gives me great optimism.

[00:25:21] Matt Hastings: Yeah. Finally, what message would you leave with educators and also with parents and community members in Nebraska, about why connecting education and workforce information matters for all of the students in Nebraska.

[00:25:38] Dr. Brian Maher: Yeah, it's the ultimate assessment of whether or not you're getting a return on investment in your money. There is a substantial investment in education that some people see it as a cost. I don't think that at all. I think there's a substantial investment. But all of the investments I make, I want to make sure that there's some sort of return on that investment. I think we spend so much money hoping for a return on that investment. The longitudinal data that we have to some degree already, and that we're on the cusp of having, I think really helps inform how we're investing that money and investing it in the right ways.

So I see the financial implications to what's going on being crucial to every member of society. So whether you're a parent or whether you're a student, I think that investment side is really important. And from a student perspective, it's what can this lead me to? What's the vision for me needing this education? And I think looking at data, and seeing where you can go and actually seeing yourself in a pathway really is beneficial to the student and quite frankly to the parents.

[00:27:01] Matt Hastings: Right. Yeah, I agree. Is there anything else, Commissioner, that you'd like to share with the podcast or the group listening at all?

[00:27:11] Dr. Brian Maher: You know, I might say this just quickly about NSWERS. It's a pleasure to come back to the state. I left for eight years and went to South Dakota. As I was leaving in 2015, there was this initiative to kind of get some work done and look at this longitudinal data and can we bring that back and help education. And then when I came back in 2023, I see this, I'm going to say fledgling group called NSWERS that I get to be a part of. And I really get to see the growth in NSWERS in the last three years from my bias point of view has been phenomenal.

And where NSWERS can go from where it is, even more phenomenal because I think there's such a need for the data to help, as I've already mentioned, to help make sure that we're spending the money in the right way for it to be spent, but also informing how we should be teaching and how our kids should be learning. And I'll go beyond that. I think of the implications for NSWERS for many groups outside of education. For example, the Department of Labor economic development, some other agencies within the state who I think could really benefit from the work that you have done and the work that you are doing. I just see NSWERS continuing to thrive and to grow.

And my goal for you is that you make sure NSWERS is no longer Nebraska's best kept secret. We get that information out and let people know this is something that's important to all of us.

[00:29:00] Matt Hastings: Right. I agree. And thank you, Commissioner, for your leadership and your contribution to the development of the NSWERS group over the past few years.

[00:29:10] Dr. Brian Maher: You're being kind. You're the one who's done it. You're welcome.

[00:29:15] Matt Hastings: Well, that's it for this episode of the NSWERS podcast. A big thank you to my guest, Dr. Brian Maher, for sharing his time, insights, and vision for a stronger education to workforce future here in Nebraska. At NSWERS, we believe that better data leads to better decisions. And better decisions lead to better outcomes for our students, our communities, and our state. If you'd like to learn more about our work or explore our research and tools, visit us online at nswers.org. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.