Communication

Communication is more than speaking clearly; it is learning to hear what people are saying - and what they are not. This episode explores how better listening, sharper questions, and intentional communication can move a workforce, strengthen client relationships, and surface problems before they grow. If you want people to understand you, first learn how to truly understand them.

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SPEAKER_01 0:03

Hey everyone, this is Alyssa. We're back with another episode discussing solution 44. Today's topic is communication. I have two guests with me today, Jennifer and Rachel, who I feel like are perfect for discussing communication. Jennifer Baggett is an operation support manager of an organization of approximately 375 people. She has been in various roles throughout her career, and all of that experience has given her unique insights, and she's been a key player in really building and implementing new communication tools in her current role. My second guest is Rachel Miranda. She is a business development lead and has been a leader in client relationships and has some really great experiences with seeing the full spectrum of communication. So, really the repercussions of when communication fails and then when communication can sell a multi-million dollar project. So I'm really excited for this conversation. Thank you, ladies, for joining me. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right. So let's jump in. And I just kind of want to recap kind of the components of solution 44 communication. Um, so communication at its core is a really simple concept. It's just tell people what's going on. But it seems to be something that is incredibly complex, and we can't quite pinpoint why it fails and or anticipate when it is going to fail. Um and one of the main driving points of implementing communication systems is because communication will directly impact our revenue and our profits. And Jennifer, I know that that's something that you get to see firsthand as an operation support manager. Um so I wanted to see if you had an example of where you have found this to be true, that communication really does impact the bottom dollar.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Yeah, absolutely. There are so many instances, and most often it's the lack of communication or inappropriate communication. There have been many times where we've had um people out on projects and they wait till the last minute to communicate, oh, I'm out of supplies, or by the way, it's been raining for five days and we're way behind schedule. Had that information been communicated up front, we could have avoided, you know, sitting in hotels for extra days or rush shipping charges on supplies. There's just so many ways that just lack of communication hurts the bottom dollar.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

You mentioned something about inappropriate communication, and I think oftentimes what managers or people in leadership positions are not realizing is that there are actual strategies for learning how to communicate. Um, have you found that to be true in your organization where you've had to actually teach communication methods to your employees?

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Certainly, and every employee is different. Some employees give way too much information, right, and um that reply all on emails, right, over and over again. Um, and sometimes you know that too much information people tune out, or it's just overkill. And then you have other employees who say it's good, everything's fine, kind of like a teenager, fine. So one word falls off, and then the bottom falls out, and then they're pointing the blame at everybody else. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Um, so solution 44 has an outline for when communication is not just organic. So I think in a perfect world, it would be great to feel like I'm telling you everything you need, no more, no less, and you're understanding exactly what it is that I'm saying to you. Um, but that's not the reality of any sort of business relationship. So there's kind of these four main points of how to start implementing a communication system, and that is written communication in detail, giving everything that you need, um, a procedure, a manual, a protocol, any sort of description for the tasks that you're supposed to be doing. Um, and then training. So actually having employees walk through what these things look like and how to do them, not assuming that that will be something that comes naturally. Um, and then the last thing is a written measurement of how did these things go and if they did not, some sort of follow-up. And in some cases it may be disciplinary, and then in some cases it may be a reward system. Um, you have had a long career in various roles, and something that I've watched you do in your organization is you kind of implemented these things based on your experience. So you kind of had many years of, I'm sure, struggling through these things. Um, and I kind of watched you bring those tools into your current role. So just kind of talk through that. What was the process for assessing the needs in a new role? How did you implement these things? What was your experience like? Just kind of give the listeners some insight into building communication tools. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

Well, I mean, anytime you walk into a new organization or a new role, uh, I mean, the first thing is really just to sit back and assess, listen, talk to everybody that's involved, hear what the struggles are, hear the complaints, what isn't working, but also what is working. What do people love and enjoy? Um, and one area that I saw a weakness was our communication from our business development side to operations and into accounting. There was a disconnect in that flow of proposal generation to telling our operations team, you know, how to what was in the proposal, how to track their time, and then making sure accounting knew how to even bill it and invoice it correctly. So uh I spent a lot of time with all of those departments and kind of figured out the path and the flow. And the first step was just write it out, write out the whole process, all the steps, put it down on paper and see how it actually works and what works best for everybody. And then start building procedures. If um business development was the first step, what was their procedure look like, and then how was that information communicated and to whom, um, and how did operations take that information, et cetera, down the line? And that's really kind of just the process. And that takes could take weeks to really develop that and work through it. And it's an ongoing process. I mean, I think even once you've established it, there's always room for improvement. Improvement, um, tweaks and changes along the way as you really start to put it into into play.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

I think uh something that you mentioned earlier about identifying what is working, um, that can often be overlooked, especially in new management roles. Um, so often employees will watch a new manager take over and they just throw everything out. It's like throw the baby out with the bathwater. They're not seeing or they're not taking the time to really unpack what's here, what are the things that we want to keep, and then what's the gap? Um, and so I think that that's something that was really, really valuable that I saw you do, and that you were not willing to say, we're gonna scrap everything and we're starting from ground zero. You were kind of saying, There are good things here, we want those good things to stay, and all we're trying to do is kind of fill the gap. Um, and did you feel like in doing that, that that helped you build better or more solid foundations with the current employees by not just disregarding everything that was already in place? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

I think anytime you come in and you start saying everything you're doing is wrong, you hurt feelings, whether you mean to or not. Um, and whether the employees realize that, yeah, the way we were doing it wasn't the greatest, but you can approach it in a way that is positive and help support what they're already doing and just make improvements. And that's really the key to getting them to buy into what you're doing and want to be part of the change. If you come in and tell them everything they're doing is wrong, why are they gonna follow you? Right. Why are they gonna say, oh, who are you? And you know, the way you're doing it is so much better than the way we used to. Right. You want to build that camaraderie so that they get on board.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

So kind of along the same vein, I'm curious about what kind of pushback you got because I mean, to be quite honest, we don't like change. I don't think any established um institution is open to change just anytime it's suggested. So I'm curious about what kind of pushback you face for kind of implementing all these new requirements and new checkboxes and new forms. Um, how did you get that buy-in and do you have any advice for how you overhaul an entire system? Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:57

Um, there's definitely pushback, but not um not negative pushback really. Mostly, you know, a little bit of eye rolling and another form, another checklist. But I think part, the important part of creating this new process or a new system is communicating why, why this is important and how it's going to help us in the big picture. You've got to show the employees that the long-term gain way outweighs those short-term pains and the struggles to get it right. And so part of it is getting them to believe you and trust that this system will work, give it a chance, let's put it in place. And once you've proven it, then it just is natural and everybody follows along.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Right. So, Rachel, for you, one of the biggest indicators of if a system is working is getting feedback and for your projects or your services to be successful. And so one component of solution 44 is the storefront, and it's this idea that the client-facing aspect of an organization is the face, right? And unfortunately, it takes many years to cultivate a good client relationship, but one incident can undermine that. Um, so I'm curious if there are any experiences you've had with doing damage control where you're the one that's communicating with this client or you're the one who's kind of getting this harsh feedback, not necessarily as the person who is doing the job or delivering the product or the service, um, but someone that's kind of having to hear how it has failed. Um, so is there any um examples you can think of where you have seen that come to pass?

SPEAKER_00 10:40

Um yeah, several. Actually, there has been a couple that come to mind. Uh I went out on site one day with this one of our safety professionnels. Um, and we thought, you know, we were just going in for a client meeting. No one had communicated to us that this client was unhappy or that there was anything wrong at this site. Um, so we go into the meeting and you know, five minutes into the conversation or less, um, I mean, you can just tell that the client is unhappy by all everything, all the issues he's communicating to us.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Right.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Um, granted, you know, we're not the ones out there doing the work, but to the client, you know, we're not gonna throw anyone under the bus. We're just gonna listen. I think in that during that time, the most important thing is to just listen, hear them out, um, don't try to make excuses, just kind of understand where they're coming from, um, take notes and bring it back to the team. Uh, figure out, you know, where we went wrong, what it is, you know, where we can communicate better and how we can make things better. Um, but I think the most important part was just listening and hearing the client out, uh letting them know that no matter what, um, we're gonna take care of it. Um and just kind of coming through on the that in.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

So you have a really unique vantage point in that you straddle both sides where you do have to deal with employees and you're the one who is kind of saying, here's the team, we're matching it with this project, but then also just facing the clients when they're upset about something or even happy about something. Have you had to work on how to communicate failings to a team? And if so, how did you do that? How do I guess my question is like, how do you take hard feedback to a team and not just completely beat them over the head with it? How do you make it constructive?

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Um, me personally, I haven't had to really communicate those failings to someone, but I've been in meetings with those individuals who were going to have to do that. Um I think the best thing is just again being understanding of those employees and knowing that everyone makes mistakes. Um not going in there to blame anyone, just letting them know here's the issues, here's what the client has told us, these are the issues, this is what has been communicated to us. Now, let how can we fix this? What went wrong? Like, was there anything that we could have done better to help you get the job done? Or why was this not communicated? Why did this happen? Just kind of go into it more as a conversation, trying to understand where these employees were coming from and what went wrong and what the solution is. Right.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

So, Jennifer, I know that you also work interdepartmentally and kind of like dealing with communication failings between departments. Um, is there anything that you have noticed that helps hard feedback be more productive?

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Yes. Um I think part of delivering hard feedback is the delivery method. Um you can be upset and you can be disappointed in your team, um, and you can even tell them you're upset and disappointed. But there's no reason to or no benefit to berate them or yell or throw things. I've seen it all in my wow in my career. Um but there's no reason for that. And I think people respond better and have more respect for you when you are telling them what has failed and what has gone wrong when you treat them with respect and and show them that it's what they did was wrong and we need to fix it. But you know, you're not an evil person. Right.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

You know, it had to be treated that way. I think it sounds shocking to say that people lose their temper to the point where they're yelling or throwing things, but unfortunately it's not a rare occurrence in many work environments, and it totally happens. Um, so another component of solution 44 is talking about how to navigate escalating and de-escalating issues. And so you're kind of talking about, you know, Rachel mentioned having to deliver some failings and people are going to have bruised egos and there's going to be blaming that people naturally want to do. Can either of you identify things that escalate that type of scenario or de-escalate it? I guess like a way for managers to approach something and realize if I do these things, this is going to escalate and become worse. Or if I do these things, we will be able to have a calm conversation and be um and create a productive solution. Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

I think one area that I see that escalates a situation is someone in the group that doesn't listen. Someone that continues to talk over, that continues to argue, um, or point blame. The most uh beneficial thing to do in those situations is to shut up and just listen and absorb what's coming to you. And you can still rebuttal, you can still refute what's been stated, but you can do it in a way that's productive. I have a tendency to shut down when people are just constantly going, going, and going, and going. I don't want to talk about it anymore. We'll come back later when when you're ready to listen. Um and so I think to me, that's when things really escalate, is when just people won't listen to each other.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Do you have any advice for managers to have hard conversations with employees? Like just some hard and fast rules like tempers need to be low, we need to speak in a private place. Have you seen uh ways that managers can do that in a most productive way? Yeah, I mean, I think the first step is don't um what's the word?

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Don't don't let them feel like you're attacking them. So don't jump on them right, you know, try to pull them aside privately. Keep your tone of voice calm, be patient, and always try to end with a positive. Not everything has to end negatively. So talk about what's wrong or what needs to be corrected, but also give positive feedback and make sure they feel like they are a valuable member of the team and you're not just berating them.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Yeah, I think that's a big thing that we talk about in personal relationships is the compliment sandwich. So, like positive feedback, hard feedback followed by positive feedback. So as long as you're always buffering something that's difficult to hear with two positives, things you're doing this well, this could be improved, but you're doing this well, it's easier to um absorb that and not feel like you are a failure when really all it is is that there's an opportunity for growth in the middle of this, but you are still doing other things well. We don't we're not saying that you are devalued as an employee because you have an opportunity for growth.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

And I think as managers, we tend to forget what it's like to hear harsh criticism. Managers, we often are the ones delivering it and not receiving it. And so just put yourself in their shoes. Remember, remember when you had to get feedback? How did that make you feel? How do you want to be better than maybe your manager was to you at one point?

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Yeah, I think it's just tough love. Like, you know, sometimes you have to give it to them like that, and just like you said before ending that conversation, just remind them I'm not doing this because that because I despise you and what you did, I'm doing this to help you. Right. So you can grow from this situation.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

Right. And I think the more trust that they have in you, the more likely they are to hear that feedback and not be destroyed by it because they know that you want them to be better, right? Like we're always working towards a goal. And as long as they have trust that you are trying to build them as an employee and as a person, they're gonna hear what you have to say. But if you go in yelling and harsh and freaking out, that's not gonna be a productive conversation. Then it feels like a personal assault. Absolutely. So I have another question for the both of you. Um, you work in very different areas of an organization, and Jennifer, for example, you have a certain set of tools that you use, Rachel. You have a certain goal that you're working towards. How have you found it to work with other departments with very different communication styles and very different communication procedures? And how do you reconcile that to get what you need out of the situation?

SPEAKER_02 19:34

It can be difficult sometimes. Um I have learned that I sometimes have taken for granted that the other department knows what I do or knows what my department does and already has an understanding of it. So I have found that it's better to start the conversation with explaining where I'm coming from or how our departments connect or how what they do affects my department. That's good. Um, and so that really kind of helps make sure they understand where I'm coming from and then usually have to repackage what I'm trying to say in a way that makes sense to them. I can't use all the same maybe acronyms, you're right, and and slang words that we, you know, have saying in your department. Exactly. That I have to maybe spell things out more clearly. Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 20:30

Yeah, and I think for me it's just building relationships with people in those departments, whether that's one person in the department, but just building a relationship so that I will feel comfortable communicating with them, going to them, um, just being able to understand what they need, what it is I need, and how we can help each other.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Mm-hmm. Do you guys find that the better the communication gets, the more likely those places are going to adapt your style of communicating or ask you like, hey, how do you conduct your meetings or how do you follow up on meeting notes and just kind of like asking for your advice on how they could communicate better?

SPEAKER_02 21:08

Absolutely. I've um seen it, you know, have started certain meetings and had goals and I've had other department managers attend those and then take that back and say, I really enjoyed that, and take that back to their group. Um and I think that's I don't know, that's one of the best compliments you can get um as a manager or as as a leader is to see other people adapt some of your styles. And it helps that that relationship, that bond between you two. Um and as we you you know kind of grow and connect, that communication just becomes easier and easier.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:47

I think remembering that we're all on the same team too. Essentially, we all want the same goal and we're all working towards the same goal. Um, and that not that we're competing, departments are competing, so we just have to remember um we're all on the same team, we're all working towards that same end goal.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

Right. I feel like as the years have passed, there is less competitiveness between departments of organizations because I think people are seeing like when I succeed, you succeed, we have to work together. These are interlocking parts. It doesn't become this war between, you know, like operations and admin. It's like you need all types, right? You have to work together, and I think that people are seeing that a lot more clearly that I pull you up when I'm doing better, and you pull me up when you're doing better. Um, so I I have definitely noticed a big improvement when it's not competing forces, it's collaborative forces. Right.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

I mean, we like Rachel said, we are all on the same team. You know, accounting cannot invoice what operations does if we don't turn the information over. I mean, it's it's all together, right? We no no single department can function on its own.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

Right. So before we wrap up, I want to get um a takeaway for the listeners. So can each of you give me one thing to avoid in communication and one thing that is essential.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

One thing to avoid. I would say um don't shut down. When you hear something you don't like, don't shut down. Don't take it as a personal attack. Be willing to hear what they're saying. So to me, the biggest takeaway is the positive or do is more listening, less talking. That's good. You know, I think everyone's probably heard the phrase, we're born with two ears and one mouth. Right. Listen twice as much as you talk.

SPEAKER_01 23:48

That's good.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Like listen, talk less and and just be willing to hear.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Yeah. That's good. What about you, Rachel?

SPEAKER_00 23:56

I I agree. I mean, to piggyback off of that, um, I think just listen to understand and don't just listen to reply, which I know is easier said than done because when you're in a conversation, you're just you're already thinking of what you want to say back. Right. Um, but I think just listen, understand, jot, write note, write notes down if you need to. Um, but that would probably be the biggest thing to take away. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 24:19

All right. Well, thank you guys for joining me. I really appreciate it. I think there's a lot of good nuggets in here for um supervisors to maybe implement in their own spaces. So I really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you.