WEBVTT 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:06.080 Hello Madison. 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:07.040 Hey. 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:10.160 You gave the message on I did, Sunday. 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:10.720 Great job. 00:00:10.800 --> 00:00:11.279 Thank you. 00:00:11.519 --> 00:00:13.119 And you gave it with both a hat. 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:14.240 Both a hat. 00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:16.160 And you've got this the new uh tattoo. 00:00:16.399 --> 00:00:17.280 The new fish tattoo. 00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:17.760 Yep. 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:19.120 So uh controversial. 00:00:19.519 --> 00:00:19.679 Really? 00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:22.160 My presence is controversial in any room that I walk into. 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:24.480 Can you imagine if you would have turned your hat backwards? 00:00:24.800 --> 00:00:26.000 I don't think I can pull that off. 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:29.600 Well I'm not saying you I'm not saying from what you could, but I'm just saying if you would have. 00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:31.600 Like what the I don't think yeah. 00:00:33.039 --> 00:00:33.920 Something would have happened. 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:34.240 No. 00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:35.759 You did a great job with the message, by the way. 00:00:35.920 --> 00:00:36.240 Appreciate it. 00:00:36.399 --> 00:00:36.880 Really, really good. 00:00:37.039 --> 00:00:49.200 And I thought it'd be interesting to talk about because we've had some follow-up conversations about it, but even in the weeks prior, you had a message that you kind of just stopped mid-message and said, we'll finish the rest later. 00:00:49.520 --> 00:00:50.000 Yeah, we will. 00:00:50.079 --> 00:00:50.159 Yeah. 00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:51.200 A couple weeks ago. 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:52.159 Sorry, I'm yawning while talking. 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:52.399 My bad. 00:00:52.560 --> 00:00:52.960 No biggie. 00:00:53.119 --> 00:01:01.840 I thought it'd be interesting to kind of talk about message prep and some of the filters that we have, and then also some of the things that happen when we deliver a message. 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:02.479 Yeah. 00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:07.200 And so in a weird way, like how is this relevant to anyone who doesn't give messages? 00:01:07.359 --> 00:01:12.319 However, um, a lot of how we approach messages, I think, says a lot about what we believe. 00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:13.040 Definitely. 00:01:13.359 --> 00:01:18.719 And I was thinking when you mentioned this as a topic, I was like, I wasn't like, oh my God, yes. 00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:19.359 Right. 00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:31.120 But it did get me thinking, like, yeah, there's probably a lot of unspoken, typically unspoken filters that very much speak to what we believe about God, what we believe about scripture and how we approach things. 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:32.799 And we probably don't approach them in the exact same way. 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:36.000 Sure, but I think there's the We've done a lot of planning together. 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:37.040 Like that's a pretty normal thing. 00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:37.359 Yes. 00:01:37.599 --> 00:01:46.079 And then there's like the the obviously the theological beliefs, but then there's just like the cultural sort of his hands things practical come out in those conversations. 00:01:46.239 --> 00:01:51.120 And so what is the point of even having a message on Sunday? 00:01:51.599 --> 00:01:57.200 Yeah, I mean, uh people need to learn, right? 00:01:57.519 --> 00:02:04.000 Like that is a huge part of growing in our faith is learning about the God that we serve. 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:09.520 And from from like forever, forever. 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:11.199 This is not a new concept, you know. 00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:17.759 There have just been people who make it their purpose to learn so that they can teach. 00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:27.680 And, you know, and so yeah, it's the the main purpose is just learning more about the God that we have a relationship with uh through scripture and growing in our knowledge and understanding. 00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:31.759 You know, there's a a lot of times in scripture it talks about growing in wisdom and understanding. 00:02:32.000 --> 00:02:34.240 We want to grow as people in wisdom and understanding. 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:42.080 And uh and sometimes, you know, for the average person, you're busy, you're doing all kinds of things in life, you may not have time to do a deep dive on this or whatever. 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:52.560 So I I'm grateful that I have a huge part of my week is set aside to research, read, study, pray, yeah, so that I can hopefully share something that is helpful. 00:02:52.879 --> 00:03:07.520 Yeah, and I think for all people that follow Jesus, he says, go throughout all the nations, um, baptizing in the name of the Father, whole whole Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and teaching them to do the things that I think teaching them and and making disciples, discipleship and teaching, you know, go hand in hand. 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:14.400 And so, yeah, there's this element of like knowing your stuff enough to communicate it a well to other people, even in your workplace and everything. 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:27.039 So I think having a Sunday morning moment where everyone's kind of coming around the same topic, same passage, same moment of truth gives them the ability to then communicate that to somebody else too. 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:28.159 So I think it's No, definitely. 00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:38.479 I mean, I think when I I think back to my college days and I was not at a a uh I was a very passionate believer, but I was not at a college that that was It was in interesting, kind of different than yours, because you went to Kennesaw State. 00:03:38.719 --> 00:03:39.759 I went to a small college. 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:49.280 So it was not a Christian college, but because of its size, there was much you had much more of a relationship with your professors and your other students. 00:03:49.439 --> 00:03:53.840 Because you shared, I mean, yeah, I don't I only probably experienced that in like the later courses. 00:03:54.159 --> 00:03:56.159 Yeah, and I that was how it was from the the get-go. 00:03:56.400 --> 00:04:00.960 But it also meant that your professors would learn who the really passionate believers were. 00:04:01.039 --> 00:04:04.560 And sometimes there was like antagonistic stuff, and it was a weird culture. 00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:18.879 But my point is um I remember being really grateful while I was in college and I was wrestling with some of that, and I had a few professors that were saying things in class, and I always laughed at the fact that it didn't matter what the class was, half the teeth the professors were it's like, what does this class have to do with Christianity? 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:19.920 Why aren't we talking about the Bible? 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:22.800 Yeah, like you know, because they didn't they had a bone to pick or whatever. 00:04:22.959 --> 00:04:38.160 And there was a specific church in Missouri that I remember the pastor was in this series, and he was able to put words to things that I had been wrestling with, but I didn't have the confidence or or the clarity to ever communicate. 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:42.000 So in the back of my mind, I was like, I thought about that's not right, and I don't know, but I don't know how to say it. 00:04:42.160 --> 00:04:46.480 And hearing him teach on it clarified my thoughts. 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:49.759 And it wasn't like I just wholesale took what he said and let it be my thoughts. 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:53.199 I was already thinking these things, but it was like, oh, okay. 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:54.240 That's a way to put it there. 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:55.120 That's a way to put it in there. 00:04:55.920 --> 00:04:57.040 And it grew my confidence. 00:04:57.199 --> 00:05:02.000 Um really, I think, safeguarded my heart for some doubt, maybe that would have been there. 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:02.720 It was really helpful. 00:05:02.879 --> 00:05:07.360 So you said a large portion of your week is dedicated to the message on Sunday. 00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:10.079 What is the weekly rhythm for you? 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:15.439 Because I it's very odd and strange compared to the way I think and do it. 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:16.560 So okay. 00:05:16.800 --> 00:05:20.959 This is where people are gonna lose a lot of respect for me. 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:21.279 Trevor Burrus, Jr. 00:05:21.360 --> 00:05:22.319 You've talked about it on the stage. 00:05:22.399 --> 00:05:23.199 It's not like a secret. 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:28.959 Trevor Burrus, Jr.: It's not, but I don't think like anytime I meet another pastor and they in the conversation of like, yes, what's your message prep like? 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:31.600 Because if you're a pastor, or in your case, you mean you're a pastor. 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:32.959 I'm like a kind of pastor, yeah. 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:33.680 You are a pastor. 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:36.399 You're a pastor of smaller people. 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:37.360 Trevor Burrus, Jr.: Discount people. 00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:37.920 Yeah, yeah. 00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:39.199 Half-off people. 00:05:39.519 --> 00:05:40.319 The halflings. 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:41.040 No. 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:42.480 What is it in Star Wars? 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:43.199 They call them younglings. 00:05:43.920 --> 00:05:44.720 Why do you just call them kids? 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:48.480 Such a weird It's world building just the younglings. 00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:55.680 So write the message is like a giant to-do list item, and it's only one line. 00:05:56.000 --> 00:05:56.399 Right. 00:05:56.720 --> 00:05:59.680 But within that is so much. 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:05.680 And also, just to be honest, there's a good bit of pressure with the message in the sense that we're being honest. 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:08.399 Like let's say the message is bad. 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:10.480 Like it's just it's bad. 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:12.399 What would that be? 00:06:12.720 --> 00:06:13.120 I don't know. 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:14.639 I don't just I don't even know. 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:15.839 Have you ever heard a bad message? 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:16.800 Yes, of course. 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:17.279 Right. 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:28.879 But what's bad is not I think that the Lord uses obviously can use anything, but what's bad in a bad message is the person is not telling the truth. 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:30.560 Or they're confused. 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:33.360 Like you Yeah, we could talk about different versions of the Trevor Burrus. 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:34.560 That's that's a bad message. 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:34.720 Trevor Burrus, 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:34.800 Jr. 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:37.920 So you could have a bad message that is bad because it's it's off, right? 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:39.759 That's that's clearly not true. 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:44.720 Or I mean you could have someone that's delivering truth, but in a way that is very self-indulgent. 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:47.199 Like the message is a big part of the church gathering. 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:52.720 And if if the message on the flip side, if the message was really good, but then the next week is bad, people don't go, well, last week's was really good. 00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:53.040 Yeah. 00:06:53.279 --> 00:06:55.439 You know, but it's kind of each one is its own thing. 00:06:55.600 --> 00:07:02.879 So sometimes, as pastor, you have this pressure, we're like, oh man, I've got the message, and I and sometimes it's like Thursday and I don't really have much. 00:07:03.120 --> 00:07:04.560 And oh no. 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:09.360 Because what the thing about working at a church is Sunday's gonna happen on Sunday, we can't push it back. 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:13.279 Um so all that to say uh bad message, whatever, haha. 00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:18.399 Like it is there is a recognition, it's not about it being a performance piece and needing to wow people. 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:29.120 I'm not saying that, but but when I say bad, it's like I want I want it to be helpful, I want it to be meaningful, I want it to be true for sure. 00:07:29.279 --> 00:07:32.480 I want it to honor the Lord mostly, and I want it to benefit the people. 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:33.839 So there's a lot, yeah. 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:38.800 And with that comes a it's a burden, not a burden of like this is crushing me, but it's a responsibility. 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:39.199 Correct. 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:42.800 And it's sort of like this giant, it's sort of like for a lot of people right now, it's like do your taxes. 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:43.199 Yeah. 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:45.839 Like that, you could write that on one line item, do your taxes. 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:48.160 And it's like, there's a lot involved with doing my taxes. 00:07:48.240 --> 00:07:50.720 And I have I feel like I have that a little bit on every week, but I love it. 00:07:50.959 --> 00:08:03.360 Yeah, and so we've kind of entered this season, we're actually getting out of this because you're jumping back into Philippians, but we had uh several weeks where you were kind of unmoored in terms of your message topic. 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:12.319 Yeah, but last year and the year before, the process started with here is a section of scripture that I'm responsible to teach. 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:14.720 What does that look like from the weekly thing? 00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:20.560 Because the weekly thing when you don't have a set topic, yeah, when part of your process is figuring out what the topic even is, that's a whole different thing. 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:21.439 That's a whole different thing. 00:08:21.759 --> 00:08:23.600 But going verse by verse through the book of Matthew. 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:32.000 As we go through scripture, like we last we went through Matthew, we're about to do Philippians, at least the you know, you might have some you you definitely have some leeway on how much you're gonna cover. 00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:34.879 Like you could choose to only do two verses, or you could choose to do ten. 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:40.480 If you choose to do ten, you might pick up on the main theme, but maybe not go into the weeds as much with some of the specific statements. 00:08:40.559 --> 00:08:43.519 But if you only do a couple, you're gonna like deep dive into that. 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:53.360 So there's some some you know leeway there, but I very much prefer it when I'm I prefer going through scripture and letting the scripture dictate the topic to me. 00:08:53.840 --> 00:09:03.840 And my belief is that if you go through scripture uh uh consistently, the scripture is gonna take you through the topics that you're you're gonna need to work on. 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:08.080 Because we're the spirit is guiding those conversations for your church. 00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:12.240 The people what people we're dealing with 2,000 years ago ultimately is the same stuff we're dealing with today. 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:20.720 We just we have different lived experiences in terms of culture and technology and all that stuff, but it's the same heart needs, it's the same basic issues. 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:21.440 So I like that. 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:24.000 The term for that is exeg exegesis. 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:24.799 Exegesis. 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:26.240 Meaning from exegetical preaching. 00:09:26.399 --> 00:09:34.879 Yeah, it's like coming from the scripture versus eisegesis, where you're saying I'm starting with this maybe felt need or personal problem or perspective that I want to preach on. 00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:35.039 Yeah. 00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:37.279 And let me Google all the verses that could relate to that. 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:39.279 And and both are valid and valuable. 00:09:39.759 --> 00:09:40.320 Like we've done both. 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:42.320 Well, it depends on no, you can do topical. 00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:45.279 I think the way you do topical preaching even is exegetical. 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:48.960 Yeah, when I so I'm always teaching from scripture. 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:53.759 So I'll use your, I'm not gonna tell who this person is either, but uh years ago we had an intern. 00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:55.200 He's great, he's a good person. 00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:56.960 Okay, I still have a relationship with this guy, great. 00:09:57.120 --> 00:10:01.200 But he was young, okay, he was like 19, and he came to me in part of the internship years ago. 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:08.960 We we don't have the same internship program anymore, but uh it was like developing a message, like you might want to speak to the kids area or something like that. 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:09.840 And so he comes to me. 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:10.799 This was literally a conversation. 00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:14.960 He goes, Justin, I wrote an incredible message. 00:10:15.679 --> 00:10:20.399 He said it just like this I don't have any Bible verses in it because I don't really know that. 00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:24.080 So can you like read my message and then just give me some Bible verses to put in there? 00:10:24.240 --> 00:10:24.399 Yeah. 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:28.399 But it was almost like uh I I've got this amazing cupcake and I'm missing sprinkles. 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:28.559 Right. 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:29.679 Can you give me some sprinkles? 00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:32.639 And I was like, when he said that, I was like, so let's back up. 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:42.399 Um I'm gonna go ahead and just uh completely turn your filters upside down and tell you that you don't have an incredible message. 00:10:42.639 --> 00:10:44.720 And you might have some really cool thoughts, right? 00:10:45.279 --> 00:10:58.000 But in the context of what we do, we start with scripture, say what is the scripture teaching us, and then my job and your job ultimately is how do I communicate this in a way where A, I'm telling I'm teaching the truth. 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:08.559 I'm not just using it as a jumping off point to some cool thought, but I'm like but in a way that will be as relatable as possible to the people in this time and and and place. 00:11:08.879 --> 00:11:12.000 Yeah, that's that's the filters I kind of have is in terms of importance. 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:12.960 What does the text say? 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:13.919 What is it actually saying? 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:17.200 How do you bring it back to Jesus would be my second kind of filter. 00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:20.080 And then I think of Yeah, and actually I will say you're really good at that. 00:11:20.399 --> 00:11:32.720 And that's something that I I I think I do and I I try to do, but I'm probably not uh that's one of those things that I feel like happens pretty naturally, but I would I would benefit by even being more intentional. 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:37.519 Like you you actually many times we'll have conversations and you're like, oh, how does that relate to Jesus? 00:11:37.600 --> 00:11:41.200 And I was like, Oh, well, it relates to Jesus because of this, and you're like, Well, did you say that? 00:11:41.519 --> 00:11:43.679 Yeah, you know, and you're you're I think that's a really cool. 00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:45.440 And that comes that comes from a filter. 00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:51.120 I think I just watched a documentary that was kind of just like years ago, here's all the things wrong with the church in the day. 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:53.519 And they just used the example of David and Goliath. 00:11:53.759 --> 00:12:04.320 And I think the the phrase they said was if the David and Goliath uh story can be preached with the same takeaway from a Jewish rabbi like in a modern synagogue. 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:07.600 No, I'm saying in a modern synagogue right now, right? 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:15.679 Um, and you just preached it and they'd they would give their stamp of approval fully on it, it's like it's not a Christian message, like you're not actually connecting it. 00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:17.679 And so I've just always had that as like the filter. 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:26.720 And like I said, for me, I I live with the fundamental belief that the old testament is pointing to Jesus and setting Jesus up and the new and you guys actually have some language you've used in the uh what is it? 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:31.440 You it's either pointing to Jesus, looks like Jesus, or coming from Jesus. 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:33.200 Right, that's kind of your filters with scripture. 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:33.840 So that's cool. 00:12:34.159 --> 00:12:41.039 Things are either signaling toward the need for him, or it's a type of Jesus, or um uh a shadow of Jesus. 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:46.080 There's kind of different language in scripture for it, or it's something that comes from our relationship with him. 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:49.279 Yeah, and so I I believe we everything we do here is about Jesus. 00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:57.200 Uh I was just commending you because I think you do a really good job of you're you're much more like concrete in the way you think than I am. 00:12:57.360 --> 00:12:58.159 Um I think so. 00:12:58.240 --> 00:12:59.360 I'm not saying as a negative. 00:12:59.600 --> 00:13:05.200 I am much more like I don't know how to describe it because I'm not as concrete. 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:10.000 Um so anyway, but I actually something I really appreciate about you, your filters. 00:13:10.159 --> 00:13:16.399 But yeah, preparing a message, creating a message, wanting it to be true, to teach what scripture teaches, to be relatable to people. 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:30.559 I want it to be very I I always want things to be uh really like approachable in the sense that I don't want someone walking who walks in on the street that doesn't have a deep knowledge of scripture to um like I don't even know what they're talking about. 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:36.000 So I try to make it as relate relatable as possible, as accessible as possible without sacrificing depth. 00:13:36.159 --> 00:13:39.039 I do believe we've had conversations about this, a couple different things. 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:48.480 Uh I grew up and growing up, I'd say like my twenties and up for a little while in this sort of American short culture that was sort of parceling off spiritual and practical. 00:13:48.639 --> 00:13:52.320 There's this idea that, well, the spiritual stuff isn't very practical, so we want to focus on practical. 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:52.720 Right. 00:13:53.360 --> 00:14:02.159 But actually, I think the spiritual stuff is the most practical because if we are at our core spiritual people who have deep spiritual needs that are our most important needs, and I think scripture speaks to that. 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:06.960 Like why Jesus, why worry about what you're gonna wear, what you're gonna eat, seek first the kingdom? 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:09.039 The spiritual stuff is the most practical stuff. 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:18.159 And so we um you had to work through that over many years and realize that wait a minute, why do I feel this tension of like, well, this isn't very practical because all we're talking about is your spirit. 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:18.720 Right. 00:14:19.120 --> 00:14:26.159 And often the the challenge of the message is connecting those dots as to why the the spiritual ends up being practical. 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:37.200 Is the practical but very much in church culture, you know, 10, 15 years ago, I think there was this little like an almost an intentionality in larger churches, especially to sort of say, we're focused on practical things. 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:44.000 But oftentimes what that meant was we don't really talk about the Holy Spirit, we don't talk a lot about prayer, we don't it's like, well, those are those are practical. 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:44.720 You know what I mean? 00:14:44.879 --> 00:14:46.720 So we we very much believe all of that is that. 00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:48.559 And like you said, it's uh week in, week out. 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:49.919 How do we take this truth, teach it? 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:51.759 Yeah, I think something else to apply. 00:14:52.080 --> 00:15:03.039 I was thinking about that has been helpful that you shared with me, and I it was probably some theologian that you were quoting, because I believe you said so-and-so said, so I don't remember where it came from, but preaching is the declaration of certainty. 00:15:03.279 --> 00:15:03.519 Yeah. 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:07.039 And so uh even thinking about the true it was true. 00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:31.519 Preaching is the declaration of certainty, and the idea there is the stage, the pulpit, the whatever word you your church uses we talk about the stage, is uh, you know, if you have the microphone, that's not a place for you to sort of air out your interesting thoughts and you know, there's a certain level where I'm like, I I've been thinking a lot about this and it's interesting to me, but it hasn't risen to the level that I feel certain enough about it that I would preach it from the stage. 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:45.039 Right, which is why I'm still there's not like a regular church service thing of having the stage be a time for debate or be a time for um, like you're saying, just like, oh, I don't know where I stand on this. 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:46.080 Here's some interesting things. 00:15:46.240 --> 00:15:59.919 It's like no, it the the message portion, the sermon, the talk, whatever it is, is like here here's what I can confidently say is true about the Lord in a way that like carries the weight of don't lie about God. 00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:01.200 It carries the weight, yeah. 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:09.840 And now, granted, as I get older, there's there's gonna be lots of things I probably said years ago that I go, I have a slightly different underneath on it now. 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:19.360 Yeah, it's underdeveloped, or I've I've and I think you always have the freedom to say, yeah, I've I've sort of changed my mind about that, or I've got a slightly different perspective on it. 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:27.519 Um but I do think that waiting to talk about things until you are fairly certain of it, right, safeguards against a lot of that anyway. 00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:33.360 I can't I can't think of many things I would have taught on 10 years ago that I would say, oh, I would teach the total opposite of that now. 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:36.320 But I can think of things like, oh, I would add this layer to it. 00:16:36.879 --> 00:16:47.200 Which is why when we talked about topics for the upcoming like book study, uh going through Philippians, we're just going opening up our Bibles, talking, discussing it together. 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:48.720 It's like revelation, yeah. 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:54.879 It's like you can do a month on revelation and feel equipped to discuss it verse by verse through revelation. 00:16:55.120 --> 00:17:02.720 That would be entering into the category of do I have the time to prep for this so that I'm not verbally processing it in front of everybody. 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:05.119 Same with like um a major prophet. 00:17:05.200 --> 00:17:06.000 It's like I'm not sure. 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.200 Yeah, we're talking about like Isaiah, and it's like, man, like it's hard for me. 00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:13.680 It's it'cause Isaiah is not even so much as like a narrative type thing. 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.200 Um I wouldn't know how quite how to commit to that. 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:18.559 I'm not ready for that yet. 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:18.880 Exactly. 00:17:19.039 --> 00:17:19.279 Like that. 00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:21.119 I mean, literally it's a way of saying, I don't think I'm there yet. 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:21.519 Sure. 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:22.160 And that's okay. 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:22.400 Right. 00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:23.599 And it's not like, yeah. 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:29.839 I've taught on Revelation and I've used Isaiah a bunch in teaching, but I've never um we did what four weeks on Revelation? 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:30.400 Yeah. 00:17:30.559 --> 00:17:36.240 And and that was uh I I spent more time prepping for those four weeks than I have. 00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:37.200 Yeah, it was a lot. 00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:42.559 So anyway, so I guess what we've done so far, it's a little bit loose uh in terms of approaches. 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:44.799 What are some of the convictions we have about teaching? 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:52.400 It's the declaration of certainty, it's not there for you just to sort of opine about your thoughts and here's what I think about politics and here's what I it's not what it's for. 00:17:52.960 --> 00:18:01.359 And our our main hope is that we are being true to to scripture, that we're not twisting it. 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:01.680 Right. 00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:09.119 And that's hard because to some degree you're gonna read scripture through the lens of your own background or whatever, but we try really hard to go, what is it actually saying? 00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:13.119 Let's deal with that instead of trying to shape it into what we want it to say. 00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:14.079 Let's deal with that. 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:25.119 And then how do we because our conviction is that this is real truth, this is the truth of God, how do we then communicate that in a way that makes sense to Yeah and draw draws people to Jesus. 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:25.920 Draws people to Jesus. 00:18:26.079 --> 00:18:27.599 No matter where they're no matter where they're at, yeah. 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:35.599 And can be understood by people like the deepest people in their faith, all the way to the person that's like, I've been in church twice my life, and I'm here today, and you're talking about the Holy Spirit. 00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:35.920 Right. 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:37.200 You know what I mean? 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:41.599 And I I actually feel like that's something that we are I mean, obviously we can get a lot better at it. 00:18:41.680 --> 00:18:44.000 Um I do think that's something we're we're good at at his hands. 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:50.480 Um I think we we've developed those filters over time, and I've I don't hear that many people say, Man, I was lost. 00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:50.880 Right. 00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:51.759 You know what I mean? 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:56.480 Um and a lot of that's through like we use a lot of real life examples and stories from life. 00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:00.720 Yeah, it's like these are all the things that happen before we even sit down to write a message. 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:04.079 It's like you're saying, explaining our convictions and our filters and stuff. 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:04.559 Yes. 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:08.000 And I think the other one, the other element of that is authenticity. 00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:19.920 You shared something with me this week that I thought was really like I just had never heard you put it that way of I that you don't really use visual elements that you wouldn't, in a normal conversation, pull up the picture on your phone to show somebody. 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:22.720 That's a newer filter for me over the last year or so. 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:26.880 Yeah, I think it goes toward how authenticity is put into practice. 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:27.119 Yeah. 00:19:27.519 --> 00:19:37.200 Because in message writing mode, you're like trying to anchor different points in different ways, and you can go like here's this visual or this element or this song or whatever it is. 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:44.559 But it's like yeah, that wouldn't be authentic if in a moment you wouldn't pull up that same picture or play that same song as an example for somebody in a conversation. 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:48.079 Yeah, I mean obviously like valuing visuals is cool. 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:55.519 And so years ago, if I was gonna mention like a movie, right, I might have the movie poster come up on the screen, you know. 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:56.720 And that's fine. 00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:00.160 But I I I just I one day I was sitting there like, man, I would never do that. 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:00.640 Right. 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.920 If I was if I mentioned a movie to you, I wouldn't pull up the movie picture. 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:04.720 Dune 2. 00:20:04.799 --> 00:20:05.680 Here's the poster. 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:06.880 Yeah, the poster of Dune 2. 00:20:06.960 --> 00:20:08.319 It's like if you haven't seen Dune 2. 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:14.000 But if I was talking about like a specific clip from something, I'd be like, here, like watch this real quick. 00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:14.480 30 seconds. 00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:18.960 I'd pull up the movie poster just to make fun of the like floating heads thing that still exists for some reason. 00:20:19.039 --> 00:20:20.160 Like, yeah, I can see that. 00:20:20.319 --> 00:20:22.240 Um yeah, so that's an authenticity thing. 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:25.440 Um authenticity, I think, is so those are our convictions. 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.759 And I would you say authenticity is a conviction thing. 00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:35.440 I think, yeah, because if someone with the microphone was being inauthentic, it wouldn't be like a hey, you know, try better at that next time. 00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:36.799 It'd be like, never do that again. 00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:40.480 Like if I was But authenticity for us means you're the same on stage as you are off. 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:40.799 Exactly. 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.119 You might talk a little louder because you're projecting to the back of a room, so to speak, even though you have a microphone. 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:52.400 I very rarely prepare what I'm gonna say in a conversation, but I'm taking that with the seriousness that comes with that opportunity, you know. 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:55.839 So it's like there's different elements that go to that. 00:20:56.079 --> 00:21:03.839 Um but yeah, being authentic, teaching the truth, teaching the truth, being yourself, um not being yourself in an indulgent way. 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:08.640 I think that's another filter for me with messages is ministry is never about indulgence. 00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:10.799 And so, like, okay, I I tell a lot of jokes. 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:13.920 I was a class clown as a kid, I got a lot of trouble for that. 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:18.640 Um I I don't tell jokes to feel the joy of people laughing. 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:20.640 It's is this helpful? 00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:21.839 Does this set something up? 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:31.440 Does this maybe ease the tension from what I just said or I'm about to say, you know, it's it it can't be this is my chance to live out my dream. 00:21:31.599 --> 00:21:32.640 You know, the same with worship. 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:37.599 If you are a worship guy because you wanted to be a rock star and it just never happened, that's not the right filter. 00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:37.839 Right. 00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:39.440 Like I've always wanted to be on a big stage. 00:21:39.519 --> 00:21:40.160 That's not the right filter. 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:48.400 But if you're a worship person because you're like, I have a a gift for music and I'm skilled as a musician, and I want to use that to honor God, great. 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:48.640 Yeah. 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:49.200 You know what I mean? 00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:50.640 So same thing with us teaching wise. 00:21:50.799 --> 00:22:01.839 And what that boils down to is the like the biggest the biggest red flag for me to ever give someone a chance to teach or is Like if they ask, can I do that? 00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:19.119 Um we actually had a guy, uh Meg and I were talking about from a while back who um just shared with us like like you guys some of them like you never let me give the message was like the phrase that was used um and it's like yeah that's not how this w works. 00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:19.519 Right. 00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:35.119 Like no one ever but some churches they there is an opportunity to grab the microphone during worship, you know, and that's maybe, but my point, this person was here and it was like they they almost viewed it the way they were talking about it, like I have always wanted to give the message, and you guys didn't let me do that. 00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:39.839 And it's like, well, I never I I'll say this, I never asked to give a message here in my whole life. 00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:50.799 I got hired here as the the youth pastor when I was um I was 23, it was 2007, and every time I ever spoke in the big room, it was because I was asked to. 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:51.200 Yeah. 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:53.200 It was never me being like, when's it gonna be my turn? 00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:54.000 You know what I mean? 00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:56.640 And so I've had to come out of the not wanting to. 00:22:56.799 --> 00:22:57.200 I know. 00:22:57.440 --> 00:22:58.079 Like being resistant. 00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:01.200 You used to, I used to get like if I ever asked you, you'd be like, no. 00:23:01.359 --> 00:23:02.799 No, and I was like, all right. 00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:12.960 Um, but the same thing applies, like you you've been when you speak in there, it's not because you've been like, Justin, I haven't given the message in the big room in a long time, and I really want to, because it it's like I ask you. 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:13.599 Sure. 00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:21.279 And uh yeah, and so the whole indulgent thing, I just share that because I don't do this because it fulfills my my dreams. 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:26.960 Like I feel like the Lord called me into this, and a lot of it is really hard. 00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:27.359 Yep. 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:31.920 Like it's not um yeah, which let's let's kind of shift a little bit and talk about message. 00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:32.640 What do you want to talk about? 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:34.720 Message practic practicalities. 00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:37.119 I I for us let's let's start here. 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:38.079 When do you write your message? 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:39.200 Because that's what Okay. 00:23:39.359 --> 00:23:40.720 So you called me on Thursday. 00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:42.880 You said, Do you have a back pocket message? 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:46.880 Which is just not something I think It wasn't the Thursday before the Sunday that you gave the message. 00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:47.839 It was a couple weeks ago. 00:23:48.160 --> 00:23:49.519 Yes, it was the Thursday. 00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:51.920 Sorry, there's the Sunday that you spoke. 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:52.319 Right. 00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:54.400 The Thursday before that you you called me. 00:23:54.799 --> 00:23:56.079 So this was a week and a half ago. 00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:56.720 A week and a half. 00:23:57.039 --> 00:23:57.440 A week and a half. 00:23:57.759 --> 00:23:57.839 Yeah. 00:23:58.240 --> 00:23:59.839 Which is about as far ahead as I think. 00:23:59.920 --> 00:24:00.160 Aaron Powell, Jr. 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:02.960 Three days longer than most message messages required. 00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:03.599 There you go. 00:24:03.680 --> 00:24:04.000 There you go. 00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:04.319 Yeah. 00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:09.920 And so you said do you have a back pocket message, which means like, do you have something that the drop of the hat you could share? 00:24:10.079 --> 00:24:13.039 And it's that's not really how we I how I've ever written a message. 00:24:13.359 --> 00:24:31.440 Yeah, and I think what I said was I was the used to be the youth pastor, and sometimes I would give a message, and this only really happened once I began to be like a speaker, because I was the youth pastor and also the main backup speaker for a while, which I think you're in that category, but I he the previous guy needed backup more than he also ran a company. 00:24:31.599 --> 00:24:38.720 So I was like, I was probably always on high alert to like just have a generalized message that could be plugged into the Yeah. 00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:44.160 And what that meant for me is sometimes I would teach something to the youth, and I would it would hit me like this could really work in the big room if I adjusted things. 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.440 And I would just and then when when Steve would call that. 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:47.599 Yeah. 00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:53.200 I mean, he called me, I had several times where he called me on a Sunday morning and said, Hey, I need you to give a message today. 00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:54.559 Thank you for not doing that. 00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:55.839 And and those were valid. 00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:58.480 One time he actually slipped and fell and like dislocated his knee. 00:24:58.640 --> 00:24:59.200 So that was it. 00:24:59.440 --> 00:25:03.839 Yeah, you you stabbed your eye with a tree branch and I couldn't open my day, yeah. 00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:06.480 Yeah, and those members have but I just I had those filters in. 00:25:06.559 --> 00:25:08.319 But anyway, I called you a week and a half. 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:11.119 Yeah, and so I was like, I don't know, let me think about it. 00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:15.119 I think I said like I don't have that, but I wasn't saying no to the to the message. 00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:20.079 And then I just thought of something, you know, we've been planning in our normal rhythm. 00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:23.920 We do like a curriculum planning once a month, a couple months ahead. 00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:30.160