WEBVTT 00:00:01.280 --> 00:00:08.000 If we've never met, my name is Justin, and uh I'm so excited about what we're gonna share together this morning, what we're gonna get to experience together. 00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:17.920 If you're new, we are in the middle of uh a really interesting summer where we're we're just looking at the stories of many of the people who are part of our church. 00:00:18.800 --> 00:00:26.640 And these are stories of how God has come into people's lives and and how he's shown them things they never would have been able to see before. 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:34.479 And you know, if you if you've been part of his hands for long, you know that some of the things we value most are just being authentic, being genuine. 00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:38.880 Um we don't we don't tend to sort of dance around some of the messiness of life. 00:00:39.439 --> 00:00:45.039 We're okay just going like let's let let's run into the messiness of life, let's talk about it. 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:48.799 Because if if we're all truly honest with ourselves, we're all messy. 00:00:49.679 --> 00:00:53.840 We've all got stuff, we've all got baggage, we've all got a past. 00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:57.759 And if we're young, it just means we don't have one yet, but we will. 00:00:58.240 --> 00:00:59.359 That's inevitable. 00:01:01.439 --> 00:01:16.239 And one of my favorite things about this church, one of the things that being part of this church for 15 years has changed my life in the sense that I don't have to hide my past, I don't have to uh doctor it up, I don't have to dress it up. 00:01:16.319 --> 00:01:20.159 I'm able to actually say, yeah, this is me, this has been part of my life. 00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:22.480 And oh yeah, there's a God. 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:30.319 And his name's Jesus, and his love and his grace and his mercy and his forgiveness is greater than all my sin. 00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:33.120 That's amazing, that's powerful. 00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:40.879 And so today we get to look at and participate in this story of Laney Adan. 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:42.959 Laney is an amazing part of our church. 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:47.519 She and her husband Kevin have been part of his hands for, I mean, almost the entire time we've been at church. 00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:48.799 I've known them for so many years. 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:50.480 Kevin is an incredible guy. 00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:51.760 Uh, their kids are awesome. 00:01:51.840 --> 00:01:53.040 It's just they're a great family. 00:01:53.280 --> 00:02:01.599 Laney, for the last several years, you you may recognize her when you see her, if you've been here for a while, because she has led this amazing Bible study called Healing Hearts. 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:09.520 And it's a Bible study specifically for women who have had abortions and who are are in need of healing from that. 00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:13.599 That's a side of that conversation that never gets talked about. 00:02:14.800 --> 00:02:22.240 Is uh very often the regret and the shame and the guilt that can go along with that and the need for healing from that. 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:25.599 Laney has led that for years, and she's an incredible person. 00:02:25.759 --> 00:02:26.719 Now, I want to say this. 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:28.080 I mentioned this a few weeks ago. 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:33.759 Uh right now, obviously, abortion is a big topic in our culture. 00:02:34.400 --> 00:02:37.439 And to be honest, it has been for for many years, and it will be for many years. 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:42.159 This has become such a dividing uh issue uh in our nation. 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:51.039 And much of Laney's story, as you're gonna see in just a few moments, uh-huh, involves this topic, involves abortion. 00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:58.960 And so a couple weeks ago, just to kind of to preview to set this morning up, I I I took a moment, and this was right after Roe v. 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:01.360 Wade had been overturned by the Supreme Court. 00:03:02.319 --> 00:03:15.199 And I know that there's a lot of different opinions on that and whatnot, but I took a few moments and just said, hey, let me express, you know, for me and my role here as the pastor of this church, let me kind of express where I stand on this and and why. 00:03:16.319 --> 00:03:19.280 And and I said very definitively a couple of things. 00:03:19.439 --> 00:03:27.840 Number one, I have several people I'm very close to, people I love very, very much, people I have a lot of respect for, who who have had abortions, who that's been part of their story. 00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:29.280 I don't condemn anyone. 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:32.479 God has never condemned me for my sins, of which there are many. 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:35.520 I refuse to condemn anyone ever for theirs. 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:45.919 At the same time, we have to be people who, while we don't condemn others, we don't condone what isn't right. 00:03:46.400 --> 00:03:58.080 And so I just said as clearly as I could that for me, there's absolutely no way at all as a Jesus follower for me to reconcile my faith in Jesus with abortion. 00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:16.560 And primarily because if I look at life through the lens of following Jesus, that means that at one point in time I believed that all of the hope for the entire world rested in the womb of a young, teenage, unwed, poor mother. 00:04:18.720 --> 00:04:28.160 That means that Jesus was my savior, not just when he was on the cross, but when he was in the womb. 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:36.240 And so, how could I reconcile that with abortion? 00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:37.600 They don't they don't go together. 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:42.000 And and what I'll say is this, and actually I'm really excited, we have our high school students in the room with us this morning. 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:45.040 So, high school students, welcome, love you guys, you're a huge part of our church. 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:46.720 You're just not usually in here on Sunday mornings. 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:49.199 Once a month is a lot, but you know, it's not your normal thing. 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:52.480 Um you probably wouldn't want to be in here every week. 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:52.959 I get it. 00:04:53.120 --> 00:04:53.519 I get it. 00:04:53.600 --> 00:04:54.319 I'm not cool. 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:55.120 I'm fine with that. 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:56.800 Madison is so much cooler than me. 00:04:57.040 --> 00:04:59.360 But um that is true. 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:00.959 We can clap for that, no doubt. 00:05:01.279 --> 00:05:02.079 No doubt. 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:06.639 But I'm glad that you're here this morning. 00:05:07.199 --> 00:05:10.959 And this really applies to all of us, but I think at a certain stage of life it's really important to hear this. 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:14.720 I I mentioned a moment ago the lens that I look at this issue through. 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:21.360 We have to be people who are intentional about the lenses that we choose to look at life through. 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:26.240 Because understand that our culture would love to choose those lenses for us. 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:30.240 And almost always our culture doesn't want us to be people who think. 00:05:31.519 --> 00:05:39.439 Our culture wants us to be people who who look at every issue through the lens of outrage, anger, or fear, worry. 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:41.759 That's the language that we see in our culture all the time. 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:44.800 Everything is is it's the end. 00:05:44.959 --> 00:05:46.240 Everything is doomsday. 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:52.079 Everything is is you should be outraged at this, you should be angry, you should be afraid, you should be scared. 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:58.399 There's there's a world that that seeks to manipulate you. 00:06:00.160 --> 00:06:04.319 To get you to be on a certain side of whatever issue is the issue of the day. 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:08.560 Because it may happen to be convenient for those who are in power. 00:06:10.800 --> 00:06:16.240 But we as people have to be intentional about the lenses that we choose to look at life through. 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:20.800 And I would just encourage all of us who who might be wrestling with this issue. 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:23.439 Some of us are like, no, I'm super decided on this. 00:06:23.920 --> 00:06:26.720 And I've had questions in the last few weeks, by the way, from all sides. 00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:33.360 People who have who've reached out to me and and and and are upset that there this has happened, that Roe v. 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:38.720 Wade was overturned and had a lot of questions like, help me understand this, what about people's rights, what about mitigating the circumstances? 00:06:38.959 --> 00:06:42.800 Had a really interesting conversation with someone who said, Yeah, but what about this scenario, that scenario? 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:53.120 And I was like, look, I I agree there's a lot of really hard scenarios, but I I don't believe in the concept of a necessary evil. 00:06:54.240 --> 00:06:58.480 I don't believe that there's truly ever a good reason to do the wrong thing. 00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:02.160 And that's inconvenient and that's unfair. 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:04.959 But I don't want to live in a world that's fair. 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:06.720 I want to live in a world that's good. 00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:08.879 And they're not the same thing. 00:07:09.759 --> 00:07:12.399 And so I've had a lot of conversations about that. 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:21.279 And on the flip side, I've had conversations with people who are like angry that more people aren't uh on the side they think that everyone should be on. 00:07:22.399 --> 00:07:25.279 But here's what I want to say, and then we'll move on. 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:36.079 Um if you're wrestling with this issue, we're actually gonna put out this week a really, really in-depth conversation specifically on the topic of abortion. 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:42.399 And and looking at it through the lens of not just our faith in Jesus, but what about looking at it through the lens of like logic? 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:43.759 What about the scientific lens? 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:46.959 What about let's look at it through all of those lenses and be intentional. 00:07:47.040 --> 00:07:57.519 And I believe that when you look at this issue through all these different lenses, it uh it's clear what uh what our stance should be as people, even if it's uh difficult to work it out. 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:08.639 And so if you're wrestling with that, just know that we're gonna put we're gonna post that on our podcast, we're gonna post it on our website, we're gonna post it on all the places we post things, and you can really sink your teeth into that. 00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:14.480 Because I do think it's important sometimes as a church that we say, hey, there's this big thing happening in the world. 00:08:14.800 --> 00:08:15.360 Where do we stay? 00:08:15.600 --> 00:08:16.319 What do we do with that? 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:17.360 How do we engage with that? 00:08:17.439 --> 00:08:17.759 All right. 00:08:17.839 --> 00:08:21.360 So if that's where you're at, just uh engage with that, let it be a help to you. 00:08:21.600 --> 00:08:28.160 But but that all that to say that Laney's story involves abortion. 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:35.519 And she's gonna talk about it with, I gotta tell you guys, tremendous courage and vulnerability. 00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:42.480 And I believe that should be uh that should truly be celebrated because it takes a lot of courage to be vulnerable in front of a lot of people. 00:08:42.799 --> 00:08:43.919 Laney's amazing. 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:50.559 But I need us to understand that Laney's story is actually all of our story. 00:08:52.159 --> 00:09:02.879 Because ultimately what her story is going to be about, and we'll we'll close it up with this here in a second, or after her story is done, what do we do with ourselves? 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:06.799 That's really what Laney's story is about. 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:09.519 How do we deal with our old self? 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:16.399 Because maybe you're someone who's come into a relationship with Jesus and life has totally changed, and you're like a different person. 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:20.159 But that old person that you used to be made a bunch of choices that still affect you. 00:09:21.200 --> 00:09:26.799 That old person that you used to be did a lot of things that still haunt you, that still affect your everyday life. 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:30.480 And so you can't ever really you can't escape yourself. 00:09:31.519 --> 00:09:33.679 You're like the one person you can never get away from. 00:09:34.000 --> 00:09:34.399 Right? 00:09:36.799 --> 00:09:43.120 Look, if we're really following Jesus, I know not all of us have made that decision, but the truth is we should always be growing, always be changing. 00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:48.080 Which means that in some ways we should also always be a little angry at the person we used to be. 00:09:48.639 --> 00:09:51.120 Not just ten years ago, but two months ago. 00:09:51.519 --> 00:09:54.159 Sometimes two days ago, sometimes two hours ago. 00:09:54.639 --> 00:10:03.759 Because Jesus is growing us and changing us day by day into new people, which just means that inevitably we're going to be people who don't like the things that the previous us did. 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:06.000 So what do we do with that? 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:14.000 Sometimes the hardest people to deal with, sometimes the hardest people to forgive, are the people that we used to be. 00:10:15.440 --> 00:10:17.440 And Laney's story is all about that. 00:10:17.679 --> 00:10:23.279 And so with that said, let's enjoy it, let's listen, let's learn, and we'll come back together. 00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:41.039 And so y'all have been at been here for basically 16 years. 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:41.519 Yeah. 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:41.919 Yeah. 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:42.960 16 years. 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:43.840 That's amazing. 00:10:44.000 --> 00:10:45.440 Yeah, it's really awesome. 00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:49.440 And so I just know that you're a huge part of his hands, your family's a huge part of his hands. 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:55.360 And so I've never gotten kind of the full story, and so I just wanted to ask you, what's the what's the full story? 00:10:55.519 --> 00:10:56.559 Where where'd you come from? 00:10:56.720 --> 00:10:57.840 How'd you meet Jesus? 00:10:58.159 --> 00:10:58.720 All of that. 00:10:59.039 --> 00:11:10.159 So yeah, um, by the time I graduated high school somehow, um, and then by the time I was 19, I was actually on heroin. 00:11:10.720 --> 00:11:18.960 Um and ended up um being pregnant, got married, and had a baby, and that changed my life. 00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:25.440 And from that day forward, I, you know, stopped and you know, kind of started moving forward as a mom. 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:27.759 Um, my husband at the time could not. 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:32.799 He was the same as me, and he um he could not move forward and he kind of was stuck there. 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:34.320 Um in addiction. 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:35.919 Yes, in addiction. 00:11:36.159 --> 00:11:51.600 So um lived like that in an abusive marriage for four years, and um, that was like my next moment with God was um one night, it was just like I'd had enough, and I still to this day, like it's all God. 00:11:51.759 --> 00:11:55.360 It was not my strength, it was not my courage, it was not my bravery. 00:11:55.440 --> 00:12:02.240 Um, and I just sat there for that whole night, you know, telling him I was leaving, him like begging, crying. 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:07.279 Um, and I went to bed that night, just the type of person he was and the threats he had made. 00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:11.120 I was I went to bed thinking, if I die tonight, it's okay. 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:12.480 Like, I'll be fine. 00:12:12.559 --> 00:12:18.799 Like I prayed, and I really did go to bed thinking that he was gonna kill us, so we couldn't leave. 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:19.200 Yeah. 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:20.240 Um, but we didn't. 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:27.519 We woke up the next day and he was gone, and the sun was shining, and I called my dad, and he came and got us, and we left. 00:12:27.759 --> 00:12:32.559 And um, still to this day, like I feel like that was like a moment that changed my life. 00:12:32.799 --> 00:12:34.320 And so you and Austin? 00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:34.720 Yep. 00:12:34.960 --> 00:12:39.759 You and Austin lived with your dad and stepmom? 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:41.519 I'm trying to get the story straight. 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:45.360 So um, once we moved out, my grandpa actually had a small house. 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:47.440 It was my grand my great-grandparents' house. 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:48.559 We all lived on the same street. 00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:50.320 So it's just me and Austin for a few years. 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:52.799 Your story you kind of started with the enemy. 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:53.200 Yeah. 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:56.480 Like it's hit his voice was a prominent voice in your life. 00:12:56.639 --> 00:12:56.799 Yeah. 00:12:57.039 --> 00:12:59.679 Is that something that you're still that you still were struggling with? 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:01.120 Is it something you still struggle with? 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:07.759 Like what um like what journal like what has that been in the and the healing aspect too? 00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:10.720 Yeah, I would say that that is a daily struggle still. 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:18.960 Like it's a it's a floodgate that I constantly have to remind myself to stop, allowing the enemy to just flood my mind with lies. 00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:24.320 And no matter how much I would try to think on good, he would just flood it with bad. 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:30.480 You know, you're not a good mom, you're not, you know, if people really knew you, if they knew your past, my past was a big thing. 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:35.600 Like if they knew you'd done this, if they knew you'd done that, you you know, no one would look at you the same. 00:13:35.679 --> 00:13:38.960 And then that's when I I found healing hearts. 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:42.559 Um, I did this study, um, which is a post-abortion study. 00:13:44.080 --> 00:13:50.000 Yes, so I wanted to work at the Hope Center, and um they asked if you're if you had ever had an abortion, and I had. 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:54.399 So they were like, Well, if you want to, you know, be an advocate here, you have to go through this study first. 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:56.000 And I was like, sure, that's fine. 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:57.600 I I can do that. 00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:01.039 Um, and I did it, and it was another like life-changing moment. 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:02.960 Can you let's rewind? 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:04.799 You had an abortion. 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:05.679 Yes. 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:07.600 Can you explain that story? 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:08.240 I did. 00:14:08.320 --> 00:14:11.600 Um, it was during the time that I was married to my ex-husband. 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:19.600 Um, I had Austin already, um, and I became pregnant again, and I was already feeling trapped. 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:33.919 Like I felt so stuck, and I knew, at least I thought I knew, um, that if I had another baby, like how am I ever like I was already wanting to get out, and I was like, if I have another child with him, like how is this gonna work? 00:14:34.080 --> 00:14:35.840 If I'm missing him, how am I gonna do that? 00:14:35.919 --> 00:14:40.879 It was just all this fear and worry, and so yeah, so I had an abortion. 00:14:41.440 --> 00:14:48.000 That is that's a a moment that the enemy is used hanging over your head if people knew about this. 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:52.240 What did the healing hearts you said that that started to change things for you? 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:56.159 And you wanted to work at the Hope Center, so obviously something had already changed. 00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:04.720 Yeah, I had wanted, I just didn't want people to make the same decision, you know, um, because I did have a lot of regret from that. 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:14.639 Um, you know, Austin is the only child I have from that marriage, and in his childhood, it was very hard for him being the only one without our last name. 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:23.919 And and I felt so much guilt because I was like, you could have had a sibling, you know, like what have I done? 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:32.799 Um I felt like it could have really gave him some someone when he felt really alone sometimes. 00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:36.240 Um yeah, so it was really tough. 00:15:36.639 --> 00:15:37.200 Yeah, yeah. 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:51.679 And so is it part of your relationship with Jesus that with because you had you're you're talking about addiction and abuse and abortion, and it's like that's really heavy stuff. 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:56.159 What did the freedom from that like where did that start? 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:57.840 That's a really good question. 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:05.679 I would say, like I said, I had I was still struggling with depression up until five years ago. 00:16:05.919 --> 00:16:09.440 And then that's when I found the Healing Heart study, and I began that. 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:12.960 And I fairly feel like, and I had already been to some counseling. 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:20.399 Um, so I had dealt with some things, but I hadn't walked through it with God through the past. 00:16:20.960 --> 00:16:26.240 And um and so I really do feel like that study changed my life. 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:27.919 And I say the study, yeah. 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:29.440 But it wasn't the study, yeah. 00:16:29.519 --> 00:16:32.799 Um it's like you said, it's it's walking through that stuff with God. 00:16:32.879 --> 00:16:38.399 And so what is can you give me like the the synopsis version of the healing hearts and how that how that affected you? 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:41.440 So it like it's like 10 chapters of a book, right? 00:16:41.679 --> 00:16:46.000 But each chapter, and it's just laid out beautifully to walk you through each step. 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:48.559 Like, you know, there's um who is God? 00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:50.960 Who are we in comparison to God? 00:16:51.519 --> 00:16:54.159 Um, you know, what is sin? 00:16:54.399 --> 00:16:56.159 You know, what does sin mean? 00:16:56.480 --> 00:17:00.559 Um and it does specifically like what is abortion, you know. 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:07.920 I mean, um, but I mean it's murder to me, you know. 00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:09.359 I mean, it was my child. 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:12.400 Um, and so I mean, all sins are equal, right? 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:15.440 And so I have said for a long time to Kevin, like, I am Paul. 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:20.559 Like, I feel like there's not there's not a sin I haven't committed, you know. 00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:23.519 And so all of that, that's you know, the enemy too. 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:26.000 Just like you are the worst. 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:28.000 Yeah, it's the enemy if it stops there. 00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:29.920 If it stops there, yeah, yes. 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:40.160 So um healing hearts just walks you through, it walks you through the grieving, the child that you that you lost, because as if you have an abortion, you don't grieve the child because it was a choice, right? 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:43.200 I made this decision, so you don't feel like you can grieve. 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:48.319 But there was definitely um, it gave me the opportunity to grieve. 00:17:48.480 --> 00:18:04.559 Um, and then it walks you through who is Jesus and his sacrifice and what it means when we don't, you know, if we if we are not accepting that sacrifice and we can't move forward, like we are telling Jesus it wasn't enough. 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:08.079 Um that's actually why I have this tattoo. 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:09.920 I got this tattoo after my study. 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:12.720 Um, it's a cross, but it says enough. 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:25.119 Um, and for me that meant like it's a daily reminder, and I look at it all the time, like don't pick it back up because I would never look at Jesus in the face and say, what you did wasn't enough to cover the sins that I've committed. 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:25.680 Right. 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:27.359 Because it is. 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:28.079 Yeah. 00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:38.720 Um and yeah, so I went through that study, and I just remember, I mean, every week I would come home and just cry my heart out to Kevin and just be like, This is what I'm going through. 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:41.200 Again, he's like my biggest supporter. 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:43.519 I he's precious. 00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:49.759 Um and he just walked with me through like every and he would just listen and I would tell him everything I was going through. 00:18:49.920 --> 00:18:56.799 Um and when I got to the end, like, I mean, my depression was gone, like after I went through that. 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:05.839 After I feel like it was a combination of first I studied the um, I did the study, and then I also did the study on God's armor. 00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:13.759 So it's like I went through my healing and then I learned how to like arm myself and like defend myself against the enemy. 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:18.400 Because just because you get healed doesn't mean he's gonna stop attacking or trying to stop. 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:24.319 You know, he's any foothold, like um that's one of the things that I remember most. 00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:33.279 I mean, I remember all the things about the study, and I'm still doing the study with people, which I love getting to go through it again and again because you do pick things back up, small things. 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:36.319 Um, and then there's another another study that I'm teaching now. 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:39.599 Um, it's all the same stuff, but it's just removed of the abortion. 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:44.799 I was gonna say, it seems like it's just a picture of the gospel laid out pretty clearly. 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:47.680 Yeah, and it really, I don't want to miss this part. 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:52.559 It's like all it does, the study, is say, read this verse, what does it say? 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:55.359 Yeah, read this verse, how does that make you feel? 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:58.240 Read this verse, so all you're doing is reading the Bible. 00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:58.480 Right. 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:00.000 You're just going to God's word. 00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:00.400 Yeah. 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:07.440 But there, you know, it's taking you to the parts that you need for whatever it is, whether it's about Jesus or whether it's about sin or whether it's about forgiveness. 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:11.200 And how much do we need help sometimes to make it happen? 00:20:11.359 --> 00:20:11.680 Yes. 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:12.720 Oh my gosh, yeah. 00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:19.839 And so what the book, the study did for you, and I'm sure the people were you going through it with Hope Center people at the time? 00:20:20.079 --> 00:20:22.160 Well, it's like uh kind of like what I do now. 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:23.200 They're like counselors. 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:23.680 Gotcha. 00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:29.599 So healing hearts sends you, I mean, um Hope Center sends you to healing hearts, and they have counselors who will be. 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:36.319 You had someone walking through with you, and then now you're walking through it with people that are part of our church and and the community. 00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:39.680 Yeah, and the hope center will send um my last class I did. 00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:44.000 Someone, it was I had someone from church and someone from the Hope Center that they had sent me. 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:44.240 Yeah. 00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:50.799 Yeah, and and I that is just such a picture, I think, of what the got how the gospel is supposed to be shared. 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:56.160 It takes that person and it takes the word and it takes this community to like to make that happen. 00:20:56.240 --> 00:21:08.799 And so And knowing you're not alone, I think is like a big thing, like knowing you're not the only one, you know, like oh, other people have walked this path and look, you know, and they're fine, like they have overcome it. 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:12.960 It like gives you hope that you can do the same, right? 00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:15.359 Um, so yeah, I really do. 00:21:15.839 --> 00:21:18.960 Um and so I never ended up working at the Hope Center, right? 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:21.599 Which that was really sad for the uh director. 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:24.240 She was like, I really like was hoping you were gonna come work here. 00:21:24.319 --> 00:21:37.680 And I'm like, I know, but once I did the study, like God showed me, like it was just the weight that came off of me when I did that was so huge because not only did I heal from my abortion, but I also like it talks about your abusers. 00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:48.480 Like there's whole chapters on if you've suffered or suffered abuse, you know, if you've suffered um addictions, if you've ever done any type of like cult activity, like witchcraft or things like that. 00:21:48.640 --> 00:21:54.160 You know, it covers all the things that people do as sin, you know. 00:21:54.319 --> 00:21:59.759 Um and so I just left feeling so free and so light and unburdened. 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:04.960 That I was like, I have got to get other women need to feel this. 00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:08.000 Um, not just women, but all people, but this is a women's study. 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:09.200 Yeah, right, right. 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:12.880 Were you trying to and say no if this is not true? 00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:14.400 Were you trying to? 00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:32.559 It sounds like almost before you went through the study and had that journey, it sounds like the the hope center connection, was it like trying to pay for it or to to balance that out to say like I did this thing in the past and I want to make up for it? 00:22:32.799 --> 00:22:33.759 Yeah, absolutely. 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:34.400 Gotcha. 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:38.160 Yeah, like I was like, I didn't really even know like why. 00:22:38.319 --> 00:22:41.599 I just felt this draw to like go there and to help. 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:42.000 Yeah. 00:22:42.240 --> 00:22:45.200 And yeah, I definitely think it was like a payment forward. 00:22:45.359 --> 00:22:47.599 Like I don't want someone else to feel this way. 00:22:48.000 --> 00:23:04.480 It's just really cool because it it was walking through that with God that freed you of that, even that payment mentality of like, I don't I don't have to like I tell myself, I'm like, maybe I will, or I mean maybe I won't, but God didn't lead me there. 00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:04.880 Right. 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:07.920 Like he led me there to find help. 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:08.559 Yeah. 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:10.160 And which is amazing. 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:18.160 I mean, which is what exactly what he does, you know, when we follow him, even when it's like not exactly the way that he was intending it, you make that choice. 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:23.039 So like I went there and interviewed and end up in a Bible study, then I'm like, sure, I'll do this. 00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:24.160 I don't really think I need it. 00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:24.960 I've been healed. 00:23:25.119 --> 00:23:25.680 That's what I thought. 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:27.359 I was like, I'm fine with my decision. 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:36.000 Like I knew it wasn't, I knew it wasn't the right decision, but I still felt when I went there that day that it was a justified decision. 00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:39.839 Like I still felt like I had to do this. 00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:40.880 I had to do this. 00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:46.880 And then after the study, which was a really gut-wrenching part, was that I realized I didn't have to. 00:23:47.039 --> 00:23:50.880 Like God would have provided for me if I had had that second child. 00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:54.240 He still would have given me the bravery and the courage to leave. 00:23:54.400 --> 00:24:02.079 And knowing that I took that away from him, like who knows why he sent me that child and I stopped his plant. 00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:03.200 You know what I mean? 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:06.319 Um, that was that was a hard part of the study. 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:17.920 Yeah, so on the front end, um as you're meeting women sitting down to do the study with you, where does where does that conversation start? 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:29.039 And if someone is in the the post-abortion um phase of their life and they might feel that guilt or they might feel that justification, what would you say to them? 00:24:32.480 --> 00:24:34.240 That God always had a plan. 00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:40.160 Like, no matter what you thought your plan was and what you thought the situation is, like God has the plan. 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:44.240 Like He's the one who ultimately He turns all things for good. 00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:50.079 So even when it's a bad situation, He will use it for good. 00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:53.680 And that's really all I feel like I can say about that. 00:24:53.839 --> 00:25:00.480 Like, because it's like, you know, every person has it's a really tough conversation to have with people. 00:25:00.640 --> 00:25:05.279 And, you know, the whole situation we're in right now, there's a lot going on about abortion right now. 00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:22.160 Um, you know, I hear about it at my work all the time, and I have to like choose what I want to say and choose what I don't want to say, and um and all I always say is that you know, I don't agree with abortion is a really, is a really hard choice for some women, you know, depending on what has happened to them. 00:25:22.559 --> 00:25:25.279 Yeah, it's not to minimize the darkness or the challenge. 00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:30.799 No, it is not, but God can use that for good. 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:54.640 And I know multiple women who are who are the product of rape, or their grandmother was the product of rape, and their lineage would have stopped, you know, like amazing, beautiful Christian women that, you know, back in the 30s, you know, if they didn't have the option, then but you know, it so you just don't know what God's gonna do with that baby. 00:25:54.720 --> 00:26:01.519 And even if it's not you keeping it and someone else that's dying to have a child that can't, you know, like there's just so many other options. 00:26:01.759 --> 00:26:06.559 Um, but for women who have already been through it, you think that you're fine. 00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:07.519 You really do. 00:26:07.680 --> 00:26:08.880 Like I thought I was fine. 00:26:09.039 --> 00:26:12.640 Um I had postpartum depression after I had my third baby. 00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:25.519 Um, and in our study, we learned that there are so many things tied to abortion that you don't notice, you don't see could be depression, which I had, anxiety, which I had, postpartum depression, which I had. 00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:29.039 I I kept feeling like um like she was gonna die. 00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:30.799 Like that's what I felt about Abby. 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:43.680 And what is tied to that, which I what I didn't see, what I didn't understand, was that because I was much deeper than I could figure out, um, because I had given up a child, I was afraid that God would take a child, right? 00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:45.519 Like that payment thing again. 00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:46.319 Payment. 00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:46.559 Yeah. 00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:46.960 Yeah. 00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:50.640 So I was just always, I just felt this in the enemy, right? 00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:52.000 I was just always terrified. 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:53.759 I felt like I was gonna lose her early. 00:26:53.839 --> 00:26:58.559 Like I was like, I don't know why I have this deep love for her, but it feels like she's gonna be taken from me. 00:26:59.119 --> 00:27:02.880 Um and all of and then that led to my postpartum depression. 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:03.200 Yeah. 00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:18.079 Um, and so once I did the study, I realized how many things I was struggling with were tied to this like single moment that I never got healing for because I was holding on to it, all the guilt and the shame. 00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:22.880 Um but I didn't feel like I was holding guilt and shame, but it was it was so deep. 00:27:23.119 --> 00:27:24.720 Right because I did people didn't know. 00:27:24.799 --> 00:27:26.559 It's not like I went around and talked about it, right? 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:26.799 Yeah. 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:30.160 So it was guilt and shame that I held down super deep. 00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:34.720 So it manifests itself within your body in other ways. 00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:35.599 Yeah. 00:27:36.079 --> 00:27:40.079 Jesus said, Uh, you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. 00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:40.559 Yeah. 00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:44.240 Um, my experience with that has been that that's the case. 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:47.599 And it sounds like that's the case for you. 00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:48.079 Yes. 00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:52.799 And so I called you and was like, hey, I want to have this conversation. 00:27:52.960 --> 00:28:00.319 I know you do the healing hearts, I wanna and I was I felt uncomfortable asking, but I was like, are you comfortable talking about that? 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:03.839 And you said yes graciously, and thank you for saying yes. 00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:24.480 Um but I don't know, I think with my sin, I've I've thought that people discovering the truth about the sin would lead to X, Y, and Z consequence that my life would come crumbling down, that I'd be rejected by the people who love me, and I've just found it to be completely the opposite. 00:28:24.640 --> 00:28:24.880 Oh, yeah. 00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:26.799 And so have you experienced that same? 00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:30.240 I mean, you're uh I I hear it in your story. 00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:46.799 Um But for people who are, and it might not even be abortion, but people who are holding on to that one moment in their life, or maybe that um pattern of addiction, or maybe it's some decision that they've made, what would you encourage them? 00:28:47.200 --> 00:29:19.519 Yeah, I would say like definitely when I when I dug into the Bible, like you said, and you got truth, and sometimes you do need a study or something to like walk you through it, because it's like I'm just gonna open the Bible, it's like there's so many pages, so many passages, so many books, like um, you know, but finding someone to help you like kind of take the steps, but Bible-based, because the truth's in the Bible, the truth's not I mean, yes, truth can come from like word of mouth, or but you need God's word, you know, over your life. 00:29:19.759 --> 00:29:28.400 Um I feel like when you do that, it opens you up to be able to be set free. 00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:35.279 Like, right, like I felt this huge relief and the burden was lifted and the the truth set me free. 00:29:35.359 --> 00:29:35.920 Yeah, right? 00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:39.680 And so then I wanted to help others let the truth set them free. 00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:42.559 And then when I did that, I became super vulnerable, right? 00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:50.880 Like it was a little bit nerve-wracking at first, like I wasn't sure, but someone told me one time that like if you don't feel comfortable doing it, then it's not your time yet. 00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:51.519 Right? 00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:54.240 Like, God will tell you when it's time. 00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:55.279 And he did. 00:29:55.359 --> 00:30:01.759 And you know, when we did the video about healing hearts, like that was kind of a big step, but I never felt anything about it. 00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:04.880 Like, I was like, okay, everybody in the church is about to know. 00:30:05.039 --> 00:30:11.519 Like, we have this thing with healing hearts, like when you become the counselor, and you know, all the counselors like do it at their churches, right? 00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:14.000 Yeah, they say, like, you will become the abortion lady. 00:30:14.079 --> 00:30:22.960 Yeah, you know, like they'll be like, Oh, that's the late, that's the abortion lady, you know, like so I was like, okay, here's about to be the moment where like, you know, everyone will know. 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:25.519 Everyone, you know, that sees this, everyone will know. 00:30:26.079 --> 00:30:27.119 And I was fine with that. 00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:31.759 Like, it didn't bother me at all because I don't have the enemy has no hold on that. 00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:35.200 If anything, I know God's gonna use it for good. 00:30:35.359 --> 00:30:41.599 And it's gonna lead other women to find, you know, relief, which is the opposite of what the enemy wants. 00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:44.960 So, you know, you expect to be, you expect some pushback somewhere. 00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:45.200 Right. 00:30:45.359 --> 00:30:55.200 And there always is, um, like whenever we have signups, you know, you get four or five emails, and maybe only one or two that will actually like go through with it because the enemy's there, you know. 00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:59.200 Yeah people are you're busy, it's not the right time, you know. 00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:02.799 Um, he wants to stop us from being healed. 00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:03.200 Yeah. 00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:12.799 Um, because then, like in the video that we did, you know, we had other women who were had also gotten to such a place of freedom that they could be vulnerable. 00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:13.119 Right. 00:31:13.200 --> 00:31:15.039 And they could share their story. 00:31:15.279 --> 00:31:17.519 And now that's not holding them back either. 00:31:17.680 --> 00:31:17.920