WEBVTT 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:01.840 The Bible is true. 00:00:02.319 --> 00:00:03.439 The Bible is true. 00:00:04.000 --> 00:00:06.400 The scriptures that we have are true. 00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:14.480 But to understand what that means, as far as it's true, that that involves reading the Bible in a responsible way. 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:18.960 And that means doing our best to understand things like what genre of literature is this? 00:00:19.359 --> 00:00:22.640 Certain genres of literature are meant to be read literally. 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:25.760 Certain genres of literature are meant to be written figuratively. 00:00:25.839 --> 00:00:26.800 Things like poetry. 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:28.480 The Bible has poetry in it. 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:30.320 The Bible also has history in it. 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:42.399 And I think the Bible does a really good job of signaling when it's being literal and when it's being figurative, but I also think we live in a world that because of the distance to when the Bible is written, different culture, different language, all those kinds of things. 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:53.679 And a lot of the ways that we've been raised to read the Bible, we've lost our ability sometimes to actually go back and read it in the read it in the way that it was meant to be read originally. 00:00:56.560 --> 00:01:00.479 Hey everybody, this is what we're gonna call Questions from the Garden. 00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:02.000 It's Madison speaking right now. 00:01:02.240 --> 00:01:02.960 It's up Madison. 00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:04.400 Yeah, I got Justin here with me. 00:01:04.560 --> 00:01:04.719 Yeah. 00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:11.760 Justin, you started a series called Lessons from the Garden, and that brought up some questions in my mind. 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:12.879 Uh we had a brief phone. 00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:14.000 Well, I say brief. 00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:15.760 It was like a long brief for us. 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:16.000 Yeah. 00:01:16.159 --> 00:01:20.319 Because, you know, sometimes we talk and it's like I say, hey man, can I talk to you for a minute in my office? 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:21.280 And then like an hour later. 00:01:21.599 --> 00:01:21.760 Yep. 00:01:21.920 --> 00:01:34.480 And so we had a semi-brief conversation about this series and about the questions that sort of get brought up as we start to think about the beginnings of the universe, which that's like which scripture is claiming to be, you know, part of. 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:35.280 And yeah. 00:01:35.359 --> 00:01:39.439 So I called you and I'm like, hey, I'm going to do this series on the story of the garden and all the takeaways from it. 00:01:39.519 --> 00:01:50.159 Because they're just honestly, it's it's cool that the first story in the Bible, really, the first several pages, to this day have insanely practical takeaways for all of us in our lives. 00:01:50.319 --> 00:02:02.719 And you brought up the fact that, hey, when I when I bring the story of the garden up to my students or in conversation, it very often brings up a lot of questions they have that maybe they've even been afraid to ask in a church setting. 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:03.120 Yep. 00:02:03.280 --> 00:02:05.840 And it's things like, hey, so wait, can I just ask those questions? 00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:06.480 Ask those questions. 00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:06.799 What are they? 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:08.960 Okay, these are the questions you're afraid to ask. 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:11.120 Uh is this because you were that person? 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:13.439 I think I am I'm a little bit that person. 00:02:13.599 --> 00:02:16.479 Um, and I definitely Because you were one of my students back in the day. 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:18.240 I wasn't afraid of you to ask them. 00:02:18.400 --> 00:02:21.840 And that's what I'm saying is his hands has always been a place where you can ask the questions. 00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:23.039 So I'm just gonna ask them. 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:31.439 Um, question number one Is the the the earth actually six thousand years old only? 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:38.240 Because I grew up um in school and they teach a version of the school was uh you went to a Christian school. 00:02:38.560 --> 00:02:43.599 I went to a private school, and that wasn't a Christian school until my later years where I went to a Christian school. 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:43.919 Okay. 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:49.039 And so even at my private school, they were they were teaching the billions of years earth model. 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:53.039 So do you want me to list off all the questions or do you just want to start with that question? 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:53.919 I would say so. 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:57.360 I I think because some people listening to this might be like, I don't even know the 6,000. 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:06.319 You're so you're really saying, like, is the is the Bible's telling of of the start of everything, is it literal? 00:03:06.479 --> 00:03:07.520 Is it figurative? 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:12.719 Are we supposed to read the story of Genesis 1, 2, 3, the kind of creation of the earth, Adam and Eve in the garden? 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:14.719 Yeah, so that's that would lead to the second question. 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:16.240 Are Adam and Eve real people? 00:03:16.400 --> 00:03:17.039 Are they real people? 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:22.560 Are they just sort of like characters in in like a mythology that do they represent humanity? 00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:28.960 Because Adam literally translates to man and then Eve is life. 00:03:29.199 --> 00:03:32.080 Yeah, so it's like human life, basically. 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:39.280 If you're reading a story that said, and then man did this, and life responded, and life did this and chose this, you'd be like, Okay, I I see where this is. 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:41.439 That's what those words mean in that in that Hebrew language. 00:03:41.520 --> 00:04:02.240 So and so one, I think it's it's uh And the six thousand year thing, not to cut you off, okay, is that there is a maybe people aren't aware of this, um, there's a certain brand of of like super conservative biblical Christianity that would say that the earth is only 6,000 years old because people have taken the Bible never says that it's 6,000 years old. 00:04:02.800 --> 00:04:06.000 The Bible never actually definitively says here's how old the earth is. 00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:16.560 Um, but what they do is you take the genealogies listed in the Bible, you trace them all the way back to Adam and Eve, you do the math, you know, and and you get to around 6,000 to 10,000 years, and it's in that range. 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:18.720 And so therefore that must be what it is. 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:23.920 Yeah, um, but then that flies in the face of what anyone who's gone to public school, which is like what I grew up in, right? 00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:28.079 In every class is like when the dinosaurs were around, 18 billion years. 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:32.319 It wasn't that long, but it was like I don't remember the numbers, but it's always like more numbers than make sense to your brain. 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:39.600 And then as a Christian, you just you feel that tension and you either uh bury it or you come to your own conclusions. 00:04:39.680 --> 00:04:43.040 And so I guess my or like a lot of Christians, you you never ask the question. 00:04:43.120 --> 00:04:49.199 Yeah, is it okay that I then you go to college and a professor says something and you're like, has everything I've ever been told a lie? 00:04:49.279 --> 00:04:52.079 And your entire worldview crumbles, and then two years later you believe nothing. 00:04:52.240 --> 00:04:53.040 You lead the church. 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:54.560 Is it okay that I ask that question? 00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:55.279 Yeah, of course. 00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:56.800 I think it's a really healthy question to ask. 00:04:57.040 --> 00:05:02.160 And uh to anybody that has those questions, what are some of the I guess guidelines? 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:03.040 Because like filters. 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:10.800 Yeah, we're not gonna walk away with a definitive answer because it's not a definitive it as as we see it, it's not a definitive thing. 00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:17.199 Um, so what are the filters that even allow you to come to the conclusion that it isn't you're like the Bible never says that? 00:05:17.279 --> 00:05:19.120 It's like, well, can't I do the math? 00:05:19.279 --> 00:05:19.519 Yeah. 00:05:19.680 --> 00:05:21.040 And so how do you know? 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:24.240 Well, you said something a few minutes ago as we were kind of preparing for this. 00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:28.959 Is that is it literal or is it figurative may not be the best question. 00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:30.480 The right question might be, is it true? 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:35.120 And it can be true if it's literal, it can also be true if it's if it's figurative. 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:39.040 Now, for some people that would be like, what a cop out non-answer that is. 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:40.879 Like, you know, I think it's true regardless. 00:05:41.040 --> 00:05:45.680 And some people would say, Well, I think it's more true if it's if it's literally happened. 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:49.120 So a few things I think that are really important, and obviously speak to these. 00:05:49.279 --> 00:05:57.920 Number one, um, let's talk about the idea of of like understanding the like genres of literature. 00:05:58.319 --> 00:05:59.199 This is a basic thing. 00:05:59.439 --> 00:06:12.160 Because the the Bible itself is a is like an anthology that's like includes a variety of range of genres, law, poetry, right, history, a narrative, yes, um, prophecy. 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:17.920 Yeah, things like that things that we're not used to necessarily picking up off-the-target bookshelf for our beach read. 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:20.879 No, but but a great example, we all get anthologies, right? 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:29.120 Or or genres, because you know, in our world today, you pull up any streaming service that has you know video, and you're gonna go, hmm, do I want to watch sci-fi action, right? 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:30.240 Documentary, right? 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:31.839 Do I want to romance, whatever? 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:38.160 And or music videos, like you're you're you're clarifying what you're about to watch as you watch it button. 00:06:38.399 --> 00:06:41.920 And you know it, you know when you click that button what world you're stepping into. 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:47.759 And so you sort of like like you you take it, you know, for example, I like I like action movies. 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:51.680 I like a good movie every once in a while, where like it's such an implausible story, right? 00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:58.720 Where a well-trained man whose whose arms might as well be lethal weapons has like left his previous life of violence. 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:00.560 He just wants to have a peaceful life. 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:06.639 He just wants to live on his dang farm and raise his family who have no idea his past. 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:14.720 His son actually thinks he's a worthless dad because he's never stood up for anything, not knowing his dad's just hiding all this rage inside of him. 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:19.519 And then one day, some bad man of someone he murdered 20 years ago. 00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:25.680 Or or just someone shows up at the wrong place at the wrong time and crosses him and all hell breaks loose. 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:25.839 Yeah. 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:30.160 And this one man takes on like 20 and just with his fists alone. 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:32.079 Like when I watch that, it's it's ridiculous. 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:32.240 Right. 00:07:32.480 --> 00:07:33.759 But it's not shocking you. 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:34.240 No, no, no. 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:35.839 Because I knew I knew the premise, right? 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:37.040 So, okay, go back to this. 00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:37.920 I know it's a little silly. 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:38.399 Sorry, mate. 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:38.959 Genre. 00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:39.600 Genre. 00:07:40.560 --> 00:07:40.879 Okay. 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:54.240 The Bible has a variety of of narrative genres in it that for us can be a little bit hard to understand because it honestly it's a different language, different era, different time. 00:07:54.480 --> 00:07:56.240 A perfect example would be psalms, right? 00:07:56.319 --> 00:07:57.680 The word psalms means songs. 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:02.639 We know that we we know that the psalms were written as songs, which is poetry. 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:03.439 Okay. 00:08:03.839 --> 00:08:05.759 And we're very familiar with poetry in our world. 00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:07.199 We have songs galore, right? 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:08.079 Songs, whatever. 00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:13.519 But you because in English Well, you wouldn't call it poetry like we would call it um the radio station. 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:14.720 Radio station, right. 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:22.879 Um, but even when we read psalms today, we we know the even the way it's laid out, it's like one line on top of another instead of it's got the indent, it's a hard indent. 00:08:23.120 --> 00:08:31.519 Yeah, all that like like song lyrics would, but we still don't even read it like songs because songs to us usually rhyme and in English they don't, right? 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:39.120 But they do have like rhythmic stuff Yeah, they have like choruses where you're where you're seeing the repeated sentence over and over again, right? 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:52.559 And so I think what you're you're drawing us to is that the book of Genesis, Questions from the Garden, right, is um both telling a story, but it's almost through that song format, it's through that poetic. 00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:54.639 Okay, so let's start here. 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:58.639 Genesis one, and on the first day, God created this and it was good. 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:00.799 And then on the second day, he created this and he said it was good. 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:02.240 And on the third day, guess what? 00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:02.960 It was good. 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:03.759 It was good, yeah. 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:07.039 And day four, five, six, that's all good. 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:07.440 Yeah. 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:13.919 Um Genesis one is absolutely this, and this isn't even some shocking new thing, and in and we'll get into this in a second. 00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:17.519 Um, if anyone ever listens to this or still listening, if they started it. 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:22.080 Uh Genesis 1 is absolutely written in a poetic way. 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:30.559 You would never you would never get a science book, open it up, and it begins with something written the way Genesis 1 is written. 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:36.240 Usually some really artsy way to describe the cosmic background radiation. 00:09:36.639 --> 00:09:39.200 No, it's like let's take stars exploding. 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:46.240 It's like like uh I don't what would you compare a star exploding to, like like a watermelon under too much pressure? 00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:46.720 Right. 00:09:47.200 --> 00:09:48.240 You would never read it that way. 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:51.679 And so because it is, like you said earlier, it's there's repetitive language, right? 00:09:51.759 --> 00:09:52.240 Like a core. 00:09:52.559 --> 00:09:54.799 So that's cueing you into the fact that it's a different genre? 00:09:55.039 --> 00:10:06.000 Yes, but m most people in modern day like Western Christian culture might even be uncomfortable even thinking in those terms because and this is something that's important for people to understand. 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:13.919 There are parts of the Bible that we read more literally today than they were even read a thousand years ago. 00:10:14.639 --> 00:10:17.120 Because this is something that that has happened over the course. 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:19.120 We have to kind of understand the history of our faith, right? 00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:26.960 So in the 1800s, 1900s, during what we would call the modern era, we live in like post-postmodern, but the modern era was all about science and facts. 00:10:27.039 --> 00:10:38.240 And the idea was that science, science was like becoming a rival to faith, and the two were seen as very opposing, opposite, you know, ends, uh, even though they're not, and we'll get into that maybe a little later. 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:39.919 They're not, but they were seen that way. 00:10:40.240 --> 00:10:52.399 So what ends up happening is many people in the scientific community is like Darwinian evolution was rising in popularity, more attacks are happening on scripture, you know, saying, oh, science has disproven this. 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:54.320 And so what you had happen was a reaction to that. 00:10:54.480 --> 00:11:13.440 And now all of a sudden you have a Christian community who's trying to defend itself against these attacks, and in in many ways, in doing so, actually began to elevate certain things to a literal level that maybe were never intended to be that way, and created a view of the Bible as distinct from scientific revelation as we observe the universe. 00:11:13.600 --> 00:11:15.360 Like it was a mouth salad. 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:15.840 What does that mean? 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:16.480 No, no, no. 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:27.840 It's like it's like the Bible is separate, it stands outside of anything that a scientist could tell you, or a doctor of modern science could tell you uh or a cosmologist could tell you about the origins of the universe. 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:34.000 And I think what we see in scripture and what we know from God is like everything that we observe, He created. 00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:39.600 And so as we get to know more about the things that He created, we'll get to know more and more about Him. 00:11:39.759 --> 00:11:39.919 Yeah. 00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:53.279 And I think that that hyperliteral uh reading of the Bible, it pits the Bible and the story of Scripture and the story of what God is doing against our like awesome revelation that we're we're seeing what God has created. 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:53.600 Right. 00:11:53.759 --> 00:11:56.000 And so And I think it's unnecessary, right? 00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:57.840 And and and here's what I'll say on that. 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:01.279 So like I'm I'm super conservative biblically. 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:08.879 Like any the college I went to was not, and I I was not, I'll just be honest, you know me, I'm I'm not unwilling to have conflict. 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:12.080 Uh the professors at my college did not like me. 00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:17.120 I got in lots of and conservative by biblically, you mean like you're a word-for-word guy. 00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:24.159 Like you would you would not so I I think the Bible does a really good job of signaling when it's being uh metaphoric. 00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:44.639 I think with a especially with a little bit of of knowledge and and learning about your faith and the history of the Old Testament and the documents and the literary genres of the Hebrew people, I think that the Bible does a really good job letting you know what is uh a history, what is maybe like a narrative kind of poetry kind of thing. 00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:48.399 There are some that we go, was this like Job, for example, is a class example. 00:12:48.559 --> 00:12:52.080 Um many people would say Job is a real person. 00:12:52.159 --> 00:12:56.720 That many people would say Job is more of a like a figure, of a figure, and it was written that way. 00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:00.240 And honestly, you you're it's kind of fine. 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:04.960 The same takeaway about the character of God shines through if he's real or if he's not real. 00:13:05.120 --> 00:13:07.519 Right, but you could go down a slippery slope, but what if you apply that to Jesus? 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:24.879 What if Jesus is just like Yeah, and so how do you so when you're saying you're you're pointing out the repetition in um Genesis 1, you're pointing out the fact that the Bible cues us to that, what about like Jesus performing a miracle doesn't cue us to thinking that that's a metaphor about just overcoming. 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:27.840 Well, again, part of it's knowing the the genre, right? 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:41.200 Like it's not like okay, if Job was understood by many people in like Jesus' day and even further back as being a story, right? 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:48.240 It's not like okay, it'd be it'd be like one thing to open up a science book or let's say history book in this context. 00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:53.519 Like it'd be one thing to open up a history book and someone slid a fable in there trying to pass it off as history. 00:13:53.679 --> 00:13:53.840 Right. 00:13:54.320 --> 00:13:56.559 Um that's that's what sometimes people feel like. 00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:59.679 If someone were ever to learn, like, what if Job isn't a literal person? 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:00.559 What if it is a story? 00:14:00.720 --> 00:14:03.120 And by the way, I'm I don't know the answer to that. 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:05.039 I'm fine with either of those. 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:12.799 Um well for a lot of people it'd be like, well then I've been duped because it's like I opened up a history book thinking it was real history and someone slid a fake story in there. 00:14:12.960 --> 00:14:13.519 I didn't know. 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:17.919 Well, yeah, you may have not known that, but like people were aware of it. 00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:20.159 It was aware of yeah, it wasn't it wasn't done that way. 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:21.919 You know, the gospels are completely different. 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:25.919 The gospels literally begin with like Luke's is the classic example. 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:29.759 Hey, I'm writing this to tell you guys exactly what you will happen. 00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:38.159 This is what happened, and in the very early days of our faith of Christianity, these were these were the accounts that were being told to people as people are turned. 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:44.159 It wasn't it wasn't like, hey, here's a story, and this will inspire you in these different ways, right? 00:14:44.399 --> 00:14:50.320 So we have to understand is that even if parts of the Bible, the Bible, I think, when I say it's signals, it doesn't it's not trying to trick you. 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:50.720 Right. 00:14:50.879 --> 00:14:58.960 If there is Genesis 1 is written poetically, like because it's a poem, that doesn't, by the way, mean if someone says I believe in six-day creation, I'm fine with that. 00:14:59.039 --> 00:14:59.279 Right. 00:14:59.440 --> 00:15:02.399 Like I I might believe in that. 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:02.960 Does that make sense? 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:05.840 Like it's not like I don't know how many of you do believe in it, you can say that. 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:18.399 No, but my point is that I don't think six-day creation versus is like a line where you can't be a Christian if you'll just to give the counter for the sake of us talking about how old the earth is. 00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:26.480 Uh there's a scripture, it's leaving my brain what it's the reference is, but it's to God a day is like a thousand years, a thousand years is like a day. 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:27.440 People reference that. 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:39.679 And so people are when uh the figurative day one is really like an age, and I've always imagined it like a time lapse, like right, God on day one is working on all the mountains or is working on the light and working on the animals. 00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:49.840 That was a full day, yeah, but it's like going really fast, and from his perspective, it's like a day, but to our human perspective, looking backwards in history, it seems impossibly long. 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:53.360 Like to me, that seems like a plausible as plausible as the six days. 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:54.000 Six days. 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:55.360 So either way, it's a miracle. 00:15:55.519 --> 00:16:20.159 And I and if we can go back for just a second, the idea of like what is conservative biblical, what that would simply mean is that um when I read the Bible, doing my best to know what what genre I'm stepping into, which mo and I would say the vast majority of the Bible is historical, like it the stories of the Old Testament, you know, most of it is that genre, but there is other things in there. 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:30.000 But put that aside, my assumption, and it's not blind because it's been proven time and time again where scripture has just rung true in my life and it's proven true when weighed against other things. 00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:35.840 Um even science, it's amazing how many scientific discoveries have backed up scripture. 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:44.639 It's amazing how many scientific theories that opposed scripture and had a totally different narrative of scripture ended up being proven wrong. 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:44.799 Right. 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:48.320 And in a way, like that we can talk about later, the Big Bang Theory is a great example. 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:52.000 How a lot of people today believe the Big Bang Theory is a real problem if you're a Christian. 00:16:52.080 --> 00:17:02.480 It's actually funny to learn that there was a huge resistance to the Big Bang Theory in the 1940s when it was coming up by people who are like, if we go along with the Big Bang Theory, it's almost like we're saying the Bible's true. 00:17:02.639 --> 00:17:06.640 And so you had a lot of scientific people who dug their heels in, being like, we can't accept the Big Bang Theory. 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:06.799 Right. 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:07.759 It's too much like the Bible. 00:17:08.079 --> 00:17:11.200 Which again is the more we look at creation, the more we see God. 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:11.599 Right. 00:17:11.680 --> 00:17:20.079 So I've seen so much of that happen personally in my life, but also in history, that when I read scripture, if something seems odd to me, like I don't quite understand that. 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:22.480 My first assumption is not, well, this must not be true. 00:17:22.880 --> 00:17:25.279 Uh my first assumption is like, I must have more to learn. 00:17:25.519 --> 00:17:26.000 You know what I mean? 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:29.599 So that's kind of what I would call a conservative, I don't read the Bible. 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:30.960 You said it this way before. 00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:36.160 I'm not trying to put my perspective into the Bible to make it say what I want it to say. 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:40.640 I try to let the Bible, you know, teach me because I do believe that scripture is inspired. 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:48.799 Um, so you know, back to this whole this whole question, I I think like a filter I have that this is helpful is number I think the Bible is not a science book. 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:49.440 Let's start there. 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:49.920 Okay. 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:53.039 Science, as we understand it, didn't exist back then. 00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:55.359 No one grew up thinking in scientific terms. 00:17:55.680 --> 00:18:06.799 So the Bible is not a comprehensive catalog of the physical makeup of the number one question that science tries to to answer is like the question of how, right? 00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:07.759 Like how does this work? 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:08.559 How does this happen? 00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:13.519 How does that that's what you try to, you know, like history is like who, what, and when. 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:14.960 You know what I mean? 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:19.039 And the the the primary question that that scripture is always getting at is why. 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:22.000 Now, in answering that question, you're gonna have a lot of the other stuff. 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:33.680 So when I say that the Bible's not a science book, uh what I would say is when the Bible speaks of scientific things, which it does, um it's it's accurate. 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:50.559 I mean, it's amazing how many things that the Bible talks about in scientific terms were like like a classic one, would be Isaiah says that God sits above the circle of the earth and uh for you know it was a over a thousand years, almost sorry, it was actually two thousand years after that that science confirmed the earth is is round. 00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:54.720 Oh yeah, it's kind of you know, or that God's the the earth is suspended on nothing. 00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:56.079 That's in the old testament. 00:18:56.559 --> 00:19:03.839 Every modern culture at that time, you know, so ancient cultures to us, but in the time, they all had these theories of what the earth was resting upon. 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:06.079 And I mean it's like something, right? 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:09.200 The idea that the earth just floating was preposterous when that was written. 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:11.839 And then, oh well, yeah, actually it turns out it is. 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:25.440 So when the Bible I believe from what I've observed and and researched, that when the Bible speaks in scientific terms, it's accurate, but the Bible is not ever attempting to be quote unquote scientific. 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:26.079 Yeah, I think. 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:39.119 So what you mentioned about the what versus the how versus the why, that's a perfect way to think about it and really really helpful because I think it that has a lot to do with the questions you're bringing to scripture. 00:19:39.279 --> 00:19:46.559 Like if you're bringing um, like even there's just different ways people use scripture that are just inappropriate. 00:19:46.720 --> 00:20:00.720 Like if you bring it going saying, like, this needs to explain my blood type or something random about that, that won't explain it, or this needs to give me the direct do's and don'ts of how to handle every single aspect of every single thing. 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:02.880 It's not gonna inform it in that way. 00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:06.160 But if you're asking those questions of why am I here? 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:07.359 Why are we here? 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:08.559 Right, what is my purpose? 00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:16.480 Yeah, I've never read a science book and shut it and said, I really need to go forgive that person that I have this issue with. 00:20:16.559 --> 00:20:16.720 Right. 00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:17.359 You know what I mean? 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:21.440 Because it's not heart change and life change, it's not it's not transformative. 00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:26.640 It's yeah, the scripture is always kind of bringing us into ourselves and showing us who God is and his relationship with us. 00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:31.920 Yeah, it it's cool too because it starts to make the the what of it matter a little bit less. 00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:36.480 Because I was I've been thinking about the the Adam and Eve is the next question I'm gonna ask you. 00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:45.039 Like, are Adam and Eve literal actual people, ancestors, that we can, you know, do the math back and get it back there? 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:49.920 And or are they representations of humanity and our condition? 00:20:50.160 --> 00:20:50.400 Right. 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:59.200 And when you bring it to the what question or the how question, you do get caught up in lots of different things and lots of different things that are really interesting. 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:12.000 But if you ask, like, why am I here and what's the purpose of a human life and what's the value of a human life, and what like all of those questions are answered in that Adam and Eve story in the truest, deepest, realist, realist way. 00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:14.559 Well, there's a reason why that story resonates, right? 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:16.880 Because it's one of the oldest stories in human history. 00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:18.079 I mean, that's what we have to understand. 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:25.680 Like, this is a story, and and very few stories like are gonna, you know, there's movies that are gonna win Academy Awards that like people won't even remember, right? 00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:25.920 Right? 00:21:26.079 --> 00:21:30.720 They already are, and so there's a reason why this story resonates for so many thousands of years. 00:21:30.799 --> 00:21:32.799 Um, and and in multiple faiths, right? 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:37.200 It's not just Christianity, other faiths that that's their origin story as well. 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:44.000 Um, so I I will say this um as far as Adam and Eve go, so I guess go back how old is the earth? 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:45.680 The Bible doesn't definitively say that. 00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:55.680 So, you know, you can infer or or deduce based on whatever, and and there are good faith reads that are uh opposing, you know, in the sense of like the older one. 00:21:56.160 --> 00:22:04.079 Someone might say, Oh, I think the earth is is six thousand years old, and I know that flies in The face of everything that scientists say today, but how often have scientists been really certain of something? 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:08.079 Right, really certain of something, and uh proven wrong. 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:09.680 I said I would get to this, I'm gonna do it real fast. 00:22:10.079 --> 00:22:11.279 Big Bang Theory, great example. 00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:13.759 So Big Bang Theory came along in the 1940s. 00:22:13.839 --> 00:22:22.480 Uh prior to the Big Bang Theory, it was a steady state theory was the prevailing scientific view of the origin of the universe, which basically said there never was a beginning. 00:22:22.720 --> 00:22:26.799 Earth is always ex or the universe has always existed, it's a steady state. 00:22:26.960 --> 00:22:33.119 So they would look at the Bible, which said in the beginning, God created heavens and the earth, and right in those first few words, they're like, already wrong. 00:22:33.279 --> 00:22:34.319 There was no beginning. 00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:34.720 Okay. 00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:38.079 The Big Bang Theory comes along in the 1930s, 40s. 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:42.400 Um Einstein has a famous quote where he actually converted to Big Bang Theory. 00:22:43.039 --> 00:23:00.400 And uh the Big Bang Theory, you know, basically science was observing and had the ability to calculate through, you know, mathematical stuff that I don't understand, um, that the Earth seems to be, or the universe rather, seems to be expanding um and at a rapid rate for a singular point, right? 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:01.359 Like an explosion. 00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:08.160 And so if you just logically rewind the clock, there's an origin point to that explosion, which is called a beginning. 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:17.119 And so the math on that was so striking and so sound that scientists left and right are like, well, dang it. 00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:17.519 Yeah. 00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:19.279 New theory, big bang theory. 00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:22.319 In the beginning, a big bang caused all this to happen. 00:23:22.480 --> 00:23:27.279 Well, when that actually began to be developed and were in popularity, there was there's and you can read these things. 00:23:27.359 --> 00:23:34.240 I mean, major scientific minds of the time that we don't remember who they are, but people in those days, like, oh, that guy's a Harvard, whatever. 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:40.720 They were like, This can't be, because to them it was like going along with religion. 00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:44.079 Where we said for all these years there never was a beginning, and now we go back. 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.359 You know, Christians are like, we've been saying this for a long time. 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:49.599 You know, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. 00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:55.039 Your new statement, which is in the beginning, a big bang caused, it's like sounds familiar, you know. 00:23:55.200 --> 00:24:04.799 So the point is, someone might say, I know science will laugh, the scientific community rather, not science itself, but the scientific community will would laugh at my belief that the earth is only 6,000 years old. 00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:06.000 Should I be ashamed of that? 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:10.480 And I would say, like, the Bible doesn't say, doesn't tell us yes or no there. 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:17.920 And you would be, yeah, science, it's it's all the time that it's like, hey, for never mind, we learned something new and we we were way off. 00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:25.119 Yeah, which is it's like one of the only spheres of the like of current culture that consistently says, hey, I hey, we were wrong. 00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:25.759 So that's cool. 00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:27.839 Well, and not to be, I'm not saying this in a political way. 00:24:28.240 --> 00:24:30.000 Don't let's not go down this rabbit hole. 00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:31.920 But like, no, we're not. 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:37.519 But I'm just saying is like the last two and a half years of COVID, because we're we're recording this at the tail end of the year. 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:42.400 We've been blessed by people who were willing to say that hey, we we got this wrong at at different junctures. 00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:43.279 Yes, yes. 00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:47.119 I haven't heard as many people, it's more that people have said, Hey, you're wrong, right? 00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:49.440 And they're like, No, forget that. 00:24:49.839 --> 00:24:55.279 But the point is, there's been a lot of like like in the early days of COVID, I remember being this is a big one for me, the early days. 00:24:55.440 --> 00:25:03.279 We we were told to clean off our surfaces because the COVID virus could live forever for days, weeks on a surface. 00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:05.920 So, like tons of people are home scrubbing their stuff down, right? 00:25:06.079 --> 00:25:08.400 Hand sanitizer and you couldn't find cleaning stuff. 00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:08.720 Yeah. 00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:17.279 And then literally, like a month and a half, two months into it, something like that, it's like, hey, there's a new report that uh COVID only lives on surfaces for like seven seconds. 00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:17.519 Right. 00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:21.359 And I'm like, how could you be those are two very different numbers weeks and seconds? 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:25.039 But then when you go, the universe has always existed to hey, there's a beginning. 00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:26.559 Yeah, that like that's a big difference. 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:29.200 Like perspectives change and opinions update. 00:25:29.279 --> 00:25:29.440 Yes. 00:25:29.599 --> 00:25:34.160 And so if you are someone that holds that and you're feeling that insecurity about the young earth thing, right? 00:25:34.319 --> 00:25:41.759 It's okay because, like, hey, you're you're trying to honor God with what you believe, and you're reading scripture and that's what you see there, that's totally fine. 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:45.279 And I would tell that person, like, you you're not wrong to believe that. 00:25:45.519 --> 00:25:45.759 Correct. 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:46.000 Yeah. 00:25:46.160 --> 00:25:52.319 And if someone said, I don't I believe the earth is millions of years old, and like you were talking earlier that Genesis one is is more figurative. 00:25:52.799 --> 00:25:57.519 And it it's no matter what, it is definitely Genesis one is clearly written in a poetic way. 00:25:57.599 --> 00:25:57.680 Right. 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:01.039 So usually when something's written in a poetic way, it's because it's poetry. 00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:06.240 And if if you wanted to look at Genesis 1 like a poem, and you would say, What's the title of this poem? 00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:07.920 Looking at it, what would we call it? 00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:10.720 We would probably call it something like it is good, right? 00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:17.119 Which is interesting because at that time in in history, every culture's view of the origin of the world was not good. 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:24.480 And the God who created it, no matter if it was Greek mythology or whatever, it was like an angry god, and people were either in the world. 00:26:24.720 --> 00:26:32.240 Overcoming a battle or yeah, it was like there's crazy, I can't remember which culture it is, but like humans came out of the armpit of this like giant monster. 00:26:32.319 --> 00:26:33.279 That's actually like an original. 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:35.519 That's a fair take on human human tradition. 00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:36.480 You know what I mean? 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:44.160 Uh, but but god the story of our creation in scripture is so unique because it's a loving God who creates people to exist in a loving relationship with Him. 00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:45.519 Who's totally in control? 00:26:45.759 --> 00:26:47.599 He's totally in control, and he's not hostile to the world. 00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:48.960 He actually calls it good. 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:51.279 That's so you would call it, oh, it is it is good. 00:26:51.359 --> 00:27:01.279 And that it's clear that the right it's clear if you just look at it that the writer of Genesis 1 is like, what what do I want to hammer? 00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:02.480 Yeah, what's the message? 00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:03.599 What's the point? 00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:05.759 God created it and it's good. 00:27:05.920 --> 00:27:08.720 Yeah, why is this right part part of the scripture? 00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:11.759 But on to Adam and Eve, and we'll probably we need to wrap this up. 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:13.519 Um, although I I could do this all day. 00:27:13.599 --> 00:27:14.079 I love this. 00:27:14.160 --> 00:27:23.519 But I think we should probably answer as or at least talk about as fully as we can, and we'll just call this whole episode Questions from the Garden, ask a few questions, talk about it. 00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:25.359 It's okay if you have these questions too. 00:27:25.680 --> 00:27:27.599 I do think there is a turn. 00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:35.759 So where where Genesis 1 is clearly written poetically, you turn the page to Genesis 2, and instantly it's like a genre change. 00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:47.039 Sometimes like movies will do that where there's been there have been certain movies where it'll go from like uh have you ever have you ever experienced this where like in a really creative setting, it'll like switch and all of a sudden it's oh oh great. 00:27:47.200 --> 00:27:48.160 This is a stupid example. 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:52.000 I got the artsy fartsy one loaded for when you're done. 00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:52.400 Good. 00:27:52.559 --> 00:27:54.720 All right, you give me the artsy fartsy one, I'll give you the not artsy fartsy. 00:27:54.960 --> 00:27:59.759 Okay, there's a movie called Magnolia, it's not an appropriate movie, it's pretty dark. 00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:13.920 But at one point in the movie, all of the characters out of nowhere start singing with the soundtrack, and it's a very serious and dark movie, and you're like and then all of a sudden they start singing a song that like is fully expressing the theme of the movie. 00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:22.000 Okay, but on screen the characters are actually singing the song, and it's just this really weird, jarring, like okay, different movie, I guess. 00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:22.799 Uh okay. 00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:25.920 So my non-artsy fartsy would be Space Jam. 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:36.559 Because, you know, first you're like real world Michael Jordan, you know, actual human actors, and then all of a sudden it's a cartoon, and there's a cartoon Michael Jordan, you know what I mean? 00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:38.720 Like all this kind of so that's that's my yeah, yeah. 00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:40.079 It's like genres can switch. 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:42.160 It's like boom, people do it for a creative purpose. 00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:42.640 Right. 00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:47.039 So you you definitely when you read Genesis 1, you turn the page and it's like, oh, this is this is different. 00:28:47.119 --> 00:29:03.039 This is now so there, so if we don't go back to that filter, because I don't just want to go, well, I'm just gonna pick and choose the ones to be literal that I I like and want to be literal, and the ones that I don't I'm confused about, I'm gonna view those as figurative because that's not right, that's not the right way to do it. 00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:07.599