WEBVTT 00:00:00.800 --> 00:00:07.839 Well, all right, a few weeks ago we started a series called Wonderful, and we're looking at this really amazing section of Romans chapter 8. 00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:09.839 It's one of the most famous scriptures that we have. 00:00:09.919 --> 00:00:18.640 It's something that has encouraged Jesus' followers for years, and it begins with this question: What shall we say about such wonderful things as these? 00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:26.160 And then by the time you get to the end of this section, there's this declaration that might be one of the most famous statements to ever come out of the Bible. 00:00:26.399 --> 00:00:29.120 It's Romans chapter 8, verses 38 and 39. 00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:43.439 It ends by saying, I'm convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God's love, neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today, nor our worries about tomorrow, not even the powers of hell can separate us from God's love. 00:00:43.759 --> 00:00:53.840 No power in the sky above or in the earth below, indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord. 00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:55.679 That's a powerful statement, right? 00:00:55.759 --> 00:00:56.399 That's wonderful. 00:00:56.560 --> 00:00:59.520 Nothing can separate you from the love of God. 00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:00.799 Nothing. 00:01:01.679 --> 00:01:11.120 When you give your life to Jesus, when you put your faith in him, there is an inseparable relationship that develops between the two of you. 00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:14.319 It's like nothing else in this world. 00:01:14.400 --> 00:01:16.000 There's no other relationship like it. 00:01:16.239 --> 00:01:20.079 Every other relationship in this world is somewhat fragile. 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:26.239 Even the ones that we think are solid, they're not as solid as the relationship we can have with God. 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:33.439 When you put your faith in Jesus and you begin that personal relationship with Him, nothing can get in the way of that. 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:35.200 It's really, really powerful. 00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:39.519 Now, in between that first question and that final declaration, there's six other questions. 00:01:39.599 --> 00:01:41.519 And each week we've been going through these. 00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:50.079 Because as I studied this and prepared, it just hit me over and over again that man, if you can answer the six questions that it asks, and they they have usually implied answers. 00:01:50.159 --> 00:01:52.239 Sometimes he gives a really short answer for the questions. 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:57.920 If you can answer these six questions, you have a really mature grasp on where you stand with God. 00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:00.239 And that's really ultimately what this section is about. 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:04.560 It's us being secure in where we stand with God. 00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:09.039 We all know what it feels like to wonder where we stand with people. 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:16.479 You know, maybe there's people that you work with, maybe it's a boss, and you hope, you hope you stand in a good place with that boss, right? 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:18.479 You hope they like you, that they approve of you. 00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:22.960 But we all know what it feels like when you're not quite sure, or when you're suspicious. 00:02:23.439 --> 00:02:32.719 Or maybe it's romance, there's someone that you're you're in love with, and you're not quite sure where you stand with that person, and and you gotta kind of figure that out. 00:02:32.879 --> 00:02:37.840 Or it's really awkward when you know, when you're married and you know that they don't like you right now at all. 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:41.840 Like you're it's not even a mystery, like, oh wonder if they're pleased, but no, they're not. 00:02:42.159 --> 00:02:47.599 And that awkwardness of knowing that you're not in good standing with the person that you're next to it, it's hard, right? 00:02:48.560 --> 00:03:09.919 But here's what's amazing if if if every other person in life disapproves of you, if every if everyone in the world thinks little of you, but God thinks highly of you, his opinion of you outweighs everybody's. 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:10.879 Like everybody. 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:19.680 It's kind of like when when I get food for my family in the car, and we ask the kids where they want to eat, and they all yell their thing, and then I ask my wife where she wants to eat. 00:03:19.759 --> 00:03:21.280 Her opinion just counts more. 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:22.479 It just matters more. 00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:25.680 And there's times that I have to look at the kids in the rear view mirror and it's like, sorry guys. 00:03:26.080 --> 00:03:27.919 Mom said, armies, you know? 00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:34.159 Like certain people's opinions just matter more, and and no one's opinion matters more than God. 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:37.840 That's why the first question we looked at said, if God is for us, who can be against us? 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:43.199 If every other person in the world is against you, but God is for you, his opinion counts more. 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:47.680 In this section, it's about us being secure in where we stand with God. 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:51.039 It's about us being settled in where we stand with him. 00:03:51.199 --> 00:04:03.840 And even if you're brand new in your faith, even if you're just sort of thinking about the whole Jesus thing, if this is new to you, I need you to understand that if you put your faith in Jesus, if you put your trust in him, you stand secure, nothing can change it. 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:08.719 But it's challenging sometimes to remember that and live that out on a day-to-day basis. 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:13.759 And so that's what these questions help us, help us come to terms with, where we stand with God. 00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:18.480 Now, last week we looked at Romans 8, 33 and 34. 00:04:18.879 --> 00:04:20.480 And here's the questions that it asks. 00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:24.800 Who dares accuse us, whom God has chosen for his own? 00:04:25.040 --> 00:04:25.680 No one. 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:28.480 For God Himself has given us right standing with himself. 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:29.680 Who then will condemn us? 00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:38.560 No one, for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us, and he is sitting in the place of honor at God's right hand, pleading for us. 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:41.600 Now, if you were here last week, and if you weren't, it's okay. 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:46.160 But this this week's conversation it jumps at piggybacks off of last week. 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:47.120 It's important. 00:04:47.360 --> 00:04:50.000 The language that's used in these questions, it's courtroom language. 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:52.480 It says who accuses us, who condemns us. 00:04:52.720 --> 00:05:03.839 The New Testament of the Bible has a lot of courtroom language, and that's great for us because all of us have vivid understandings of what a courtroom is like, even if you've never been in court. 00:05:04.079 --> 00:05:08.800 Because even if you've never been in court, you've probably seen like Law and Order, right? 00:05:09.279 --> 00:05:13.680 Or what about, let's go, like Law and Order, how about Law and Order SVU? 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:14.560 Okay? 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:24.399 Or maybe you've seen Law and Order Criminal Intent, or maybe you've watched, I don't know, The Good Fight, or you've seen The Practice, or maybe you've watched LA Law from like the 80s, why not? 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:26.720 Or The Closer, TNC, it's a classic. 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:27.680 Uh maybe you've watched Jag. 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:29.199 Remember Jag back in the day? 00:05:29.279 --> 00:05:29.839 I remember Jag. 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:31.680 Uh maybe you've watched Judging Amy. 00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:32.480 I never have. 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:35.120 Maybe you've uh watched Franklin and Bash. 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:36.480 I think it was on for like a minute. 00:05:36.720 --> 00:05:39.040 Um, better recall Saul, why not? 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:41.519 And I think maybe the most classic uh Nightcourt. 00:05:41.680 --> 00:05:43.199 Like, anyone remember Night Court? 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:44.000 Yeah. 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:46.399 We're all old. 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:48.000 Maybe you're not a TV person. 00:05:48.160 --> 00:05:49.279 Maybe you're more into movies. 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:51.600 And so for you, it's like a few good men, right? 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:53.120 We talked about that last week. 00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:54.000 That's a classic one. 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:55.199 Uh guys, put them up. 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:55.839 There's a bunch of them. 00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:59.920 A few good men, how about uh A Time to Kill, Matthew McConaughey? 00:06:00.000 --> 00:06:01.120 He speaks with a cool southern accent. 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:02.160 Kramer versus Kramer. 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:03.439 Never seen it, but it's a court movie. 00:06:03.519 --> 00:06:04.959 JFK, why not? 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:06.240 Uh there's a courtroom scene in that. 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:07.759 The Rainmaker, that's a classic movie. 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:08.959 I love that movie, by the way. 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:11.199 Uh Fracture, recent, but pretty good. 00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:13.680 And uh My Cousin Vinny, hello? 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:19.120 Good courtroom movie, and what I might argue is the greatest courtroom drama ever, uh, legally blonde. 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:20.480 Legally blonde. 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:20.879 Yeah. 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:22.079 You got it. 00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:25.279 Now, who's seen at least one of these movies or one of these TV shows? 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:27.519 Okay, you know what courtrooms are like. 00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:29.199 You get it, it's totally accurate. 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:30.720 It's the real deal. 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:40.800 Well, the reality is, uh, even though uh we have varying degrees of experience with courtrooms, we understand those dynamics pretty well because it is a big part of our culture. 00:06:40.959 --> 00:06:42.720 And there's a lot of language in scripture about it. 00:06:42.800 --> 00:06:43.680 We looked at that last week. 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:45.120 There's the idea of a prosecutor. 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:47.920 Satan, the word Satan means accuser. 00:06:48.240 --> 00:06:55.199 And in that in that culture, that was what that was what the person bringing charges against you would be called, your accuser. 00:06:55.680 --> 00:07:01.600 But then Jesus talked about the Holy Spirit as our advocate, and that was a term that that would when it would mean defender in a court of law. 00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:03.199 The advocate was your defense attorney. 00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:07.120 So you have an accuser, Satan accuses you, he brings charges against you. 00:07:07.279 --> 00:07:08.319 We talked about this last week. 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:11.279 Some of those charges are bogus, but a lot of them are accurate. 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:16.079 And so you stand trial, so to speak, you stand accused, but you have a defender. 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:20.639 But even more importantly, and this is what we focused on mostly last Sunday, is we have a judge. 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:23.040 And that judge is Jesus Christ. 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:28.160 We don't tend to think about Jesus as a judge, but but it's very clear that he is. 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:31.519 For example, we could look at uh Matthew. 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:32.560 Is it Matthew? 00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:33.360 It's one of these. 00:07:33.439 --> 00:07:34.240 Hold on. 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:35.120 You know what? 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:36.560 You can look at a lot of verses in the Bible. 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:37.199 I lost my place. 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:37.839 It doesn't matter. 00:07:38.000 --> 00:07:38.879 Jesus is the judge. 00:07:39.040 --> 00:07:40.319 Listen to last week's message. 00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:41.199 It's there. 00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:46.240 I don't use notes, and so sometimes the brain goes this way. 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:48.560 Uh but no, Jesus, he's our judge. 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:49.920 He's our judge. 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:53.360 And he has earned the right to judge all of humanity. 00:07:53.680 --> 00:07:58.560 Because of the way that he lived life, because of what he went through, he has earned the right to judge everyone. 00:07:58.639 --> 00:08:05.040 And all of history is moving toward this moment where he is going to judge the world. 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:07.920 And so we talked about that last week in detail. 00:08:08.079 --> 00:08:17.920 And my plan was to move on to the next question today, but I want to read you a text that I got from a really good friend just a few hours really after the message. 00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:23.279 He said, So I need some help with the problem of hell. 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:27.120 I've stumbled and wrestled with this and even lost a few battles to this one. 00:08:27.279 --> 00:08:28.879 Why are there so many souls going to hell? 00:08:29.040 --> 00:08:31.519 Entire people groups that are following the teachings of their elders. 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:32.639 For me, it's personal. 00:08:32.879 --> 00:08:36.480 A family member of mine is a far better man than me, yet he is an atheist. 00:08:36.559 --> 00:08:38.559 Why does he have to be punished for eternity? 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:44.879 Sometimes you touch on topics on a Sunday morning that open up a can of worms. 00:08:45.039 --> 00:08:46.240 And nobody likes worms. 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:49.759 I've yet to meet one person that's like a worm enthusiast. 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:50.320 None. 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:51.279 Don't know any. 00:08:51.519 --> 00:08:53.279 But you also shouldn't be afraid of worms. 00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:55.840 I mean, they're just they're worms. 00:08:56.080 --> 00:09:08.559 And so sometimes we have to sort of, we have to deal with concepts that we don't like, that we'd rather just skip past, but there's no, there's no way around them. 00:09:08.639 --> 00:09:22.240 And so as I got this text, I think it was Monday, Sunday evening or Monday, and I began to write an email to this friend of mine, doing my best to put him at ease, help him be settled when it comes to these ideas. 00:09:22.960 --> 00:09:27.840 And as I prayed about it and thought about it, I realized, you know, the truth of the matter is, many of us, I think, can relate to that text. 00:09:27.919 --> 00:09:28.879 Let's just show of hands. 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:31.679 How many of us can relate to the questions asked in that text? 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:32.480 Yeah. 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:38.639 Because even if you're someone who has put your faith in Jesus, you know someone, you probably love someone who hasn't. 00:09:38.879 --> 00:09:46.799 And so we sit here and we talk, like we talked last Sunday, about the fact that Jesus is the judge, and if you put your faith in him, your judgment has already been decided. 00:09:46.960 --> 00:09:51.919 It doesn't matter what you've done, it doesn't matter if the charges and the accusations against you are accurate. 00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:54.159 He has already declared you not guilty. 00:09:54.399 --> 00:09:58.399 The charges have been dropped, you've been set free because he's paid the price for you. 00:09:58.480 --> 00:10:00.240 And that is something that we all celebrate. 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:03.440 But what about those that don't put their faith in Jesus? 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:08.480 That's what this person was asking. 00:10:08.639 --> 00:10:11.759 And I think all of us deal with that tension. 00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:14.399 What about that group of people? 00:10:14.799 --> 00:10:18.559 Or what about this person that I I love dearly? 00:10:19.919 --> 00:10:23.440 And so it became very clear that, you know what, let's just talk about it. 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:29.679 And I want you to understand, we're we're never gonna be a church that bypasses all the hard conversations. 00:10:30.240 --> 00:10:38.960 And I'll be honest, I would like to be, because it's much more exciting for every single week to just be this message that gets you guys to go, like, woo, yeah! That's great. 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:41.200 And I don't think that's gonna happen today. 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:44.159 Um, at least not yet. 00:10:44.399 --> 00:11:00.000 Like, but it's very easy in our in our modern American church culture, it's very easy for us to just sort of weave through all of the challenging conversations and challenging ideas connected to our faith and focus only on those things that we really, really like that get us excited. 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:05.360 And the truth is, if we do that, we might be excited, but we won't be equipped. 00:11:06.399 --> 00:11:20.399 There's a difference between being excited about God and being equipped to live your life connected to Him, to live your life for Him and to be ready for whatever questions, whatever doubts, whatever struggles come your way. 00:11:20.559 --> 00:11:23.200 It's vital that you have a mature faith. 00:11:23.519 --> 00:11:31.759 The way I like to think about it in my role is I never want someone who's part of our church to open up their Bible one day and be like, I have no, I have like no category for this. 00:11:32.080 --> 00:11:33.759 Like, what does this mean? 00:11:34.080 --> 00:11:37.200 And have like a crisis of faith just because you open up scripture. 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:43.919 And so when we when we come across hard subjects, we'll just deal with them. 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:45.840 And and if is that okay with you guys? 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:52.639 Like, I would prefer that, that we just do that, and the hope, the hope is that we have like a settled faith. 00:11:52.879 --> 00:12:06.240 Now, you're not gonna have, we're not, we're never gonna have all the answers, and I'll be a liar if I sit here and say, at the end of this message, you will be completely and totally uh knowledgeable and at ease with the concept of judgment and hell and heaven and whatever else goes along with that. 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:08.080 But at the same time, it's not true. 00:12:08.240 --> 00:12:10.240 These are things people have wrestled with for a long time. 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:16.559 But at the same time, I do believe that we as Jesus followers need to be able to have a settled faith. 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:23.759 Where we're not shaky, where we're able to handle the hard stuff and even help other people through it. 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:28.000 Now, what I want to start by talking about is actually commending my friend. 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:32.080 And I know this gentleman pretty well, get to know him better, really like the guy, really respect him. 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:36.799 And he used a specific word that I think is a really important word for us as a jumping off point. 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:38.240 It's the word wrestle. 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:40.320 Wrestle. 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:43.919 Uh God loves wrestlers. 00:12:44.159 --> 00:12:47.279 And I don't just mean like the WWE people, like he's he loves them too. 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:49.279 He loves he loves all people, right? 00:12:49.360 --> 00:12:52.080 But but God loves people who are willing to wrestle with him. 00:12:52.960 --> 00:12:55.519 And so there's a story I heard someone just say, the name Jacob. 00:12:55.600 --> 00:13:06.320 There's a story in the Old Testament, and it's the story of a man named Jacob, and he gets his name changed to Israel, and Israel becomes the namesake of the people that God uses to bring his son into the world to rescue the world, right? 00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:07.360 Israel. 00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:12.720 And and Jacob is just horrible as a person. 00:13:12.879 --> 00:13:16.799 Like if you read the story of Jacob, he's there's like nothing redeemable about Jacob. 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:20.960 He is he's a horrible father, he's a poor husband, he's deceptive. 00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:24.799 It's very hard to find a redeeming quality about him in any aspect of his life. 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:28.639 Like, young or old, it's just he's he's it's kind of the worst. 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:33.200 And yet he becomes the namesake of the nation that God uses. 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:40.480 And the reason why is because there's this moment in his life where he he wrestles with God and he refuses to let go. 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:45.840 And I heard a pastor once say about Jacob, and it was amazing because it changed my perspective, because I'd always just dogged on Jacob. 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:51.200 He said, Jacob was a man who would rather have died holding on to God than lived having let go of God. 00:13:51.759 --> 00:13:57.120 He wrestled with God, and God says, Yes, I'm gonna make you the namesake of my people. 00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:00.080 And the word Israel means to wrestle with God. 00:14:00.240 --> 00:14:00.960 That's what it means. 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:08.639 Doesn't mean to obey God, doesn't mean to love God, doesn't mean to do everything God says to do all the time perfectly, and in some ways you think that would be a better name for your people? 00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:15.919 Like if you're God and you want to pick a people, how about you pick the really obedient person, make that the namesake, and so everyone can be like, Yeah, do what God says, like that guy did. 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:24.639 Instead, God chooses this guy who's kind of a perpetual screw-up, but refuses to let go of God even when it's hard. 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:31.759 Now, not all of us can be, you know, Joseph's, if you know the story of Joseph in the Old Testament. 00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:37.679 Not all of us can be that, not all of us can be David's, but all of us can be Jacobs. 00:14:38.559 --> 00:14:40.320 All of us can be wrestlers. 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:43.120 And I think it's vital that we wrestle with God. 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:45.840 So I commend my friend because he says, I've I've wrestled with this. 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:46.799 Well, good. 00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:50.320 Be someone who wrestles with God. 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:57.360 When something doesn't make sense, when you struggle with some aspect of who he is or the way he does things, don't walk away from him. 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:01.919 Grab a hold of him and refuse to let go until you understand. 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:04.320 And that might take your entire life. 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:06.320 But wrestle with God. 00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:08.960 Be okay with tension. 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:11.519 Tension is what transforms us. 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:16.720 Like if you go work out, if you go to the gym, the tension is what transforms your body. 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:20.320 If the gym said, Hey, great news today, we've taken all the tension away. 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:25.279 You know, no one's gonna be sore, but no one's gonna change. 00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:27.919 And this is really important. 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:37.759 We live in a time and in a culture when so many in the church world are hellbent on removing all the tension. 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:43.039 And I watch people create a theology, which is just the way we think about God. 00:15:43.200 --> 00:15:53.919 And it's a theology that's not so much about who God is and what God has said and what God has done, but it's a theology that's more about coming up with a way of viewing God that eliminates all the tension and all the struggle. 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:55.840 Because I just don't want to have to think about those things. 00:15:56.000 --> 00:15:57.759 I don't want to have to deal with the implications of this. 00:15:57.840 --> 00:16:02.159 So I'm gonna create a way to understand God that is just easy and I don't have to deal with any of it. 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:03.519 And that isn't real. 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:05.120 That isn't real. 00:16:05.279 --> 00:16:06.320 Be a wrestler. 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:12.480 Have the courage to hold on tight even when it's tough, even when you encounter difficult concepts. 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:17.519 And so on the front end, I want to say that because I commend my friend for wrestling with these subjects. 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:20.240 But he talks about hell. 00:16:20.320 --> 00:16:23.039 And I didn't talk about hell last week, I talked about judgment. 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:26.879 So maybe I was subconsciously trying to bypass this. 00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:29.039 But he brought it up. 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:38.799 And I thought about it, and I said, okay, you know, the truth of the matter is the story of Scripture is not the story of people who say yes to God or no to God and then they go to heaven or hell. 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:40.320 That's not really the purpose of Scripture. 00:16:40.399 --> 00:16:46.480 It's not the the story is not so much about getting people to heaven as much as it is about getting heaven into people. 00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:52.000 You know, that that's really the thrust of the story of Jesus, right? 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:59.360 It's it's it's heaven coming to earth and transforming us from the inside out, not just so, hey, make a decision and then you get to go to heaven when you die. 00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:10.960 That's true, but at the same time, it's impossible to read the teachings of Jesus and and and not come to terms with the fact that there's there's clear warnings. 00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:21.839 Much of what Jesus does is is warn us and warn people about the severity of the decision that's at hand when it comes to following God and giving your life to God. 00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:23.599 And so I'll give you a few examples. 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:26.160 And hopefully these are in my notes. 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:31.519 Let's look at Luke 16, 19 through 31. 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:42.240 Jesus said, There was a certain rich man who was splendidly clothed in purple and fine linen, who lived each day in luxury. 00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:45.599 At his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, who was covered with sores. 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:50.640 As Lazarus lay there longing for scraps from the rich man's tables, the dogs would come and lick his open sores. 00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:52.559 This is a very detailed story. 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:58.480 Finally, the poor man died and was carried by the angels to sit beside Abraham at the heavenly banquet. 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:02.000 The rich man also died and was buried, and he went to the place of the dead. 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:07.119 Now, there in torment, he saw Abraham in the far distance with Lazarus at his side. 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:09.359 The rich man shouted, Father Abraham, have some pity. 00:18:09.519 --> 00:18:13.759 Send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:15.680 I am in anguish in these flames. 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:22.960 But Abraham said to him, Son, remember that during your lifetime you had everything you wanted, and Lazarus had nothing. 00:18:23.279 --> 00:18:25.440 So now he is here being comforted, and you were in anguish. 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:27.920 Besides, there's a great chasm separating us. 00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:32.559 No one can cross over to you from here, and no one can cross over to us from there. 00:18:32.880 --> 00:18:40.559 And then the rich man said, Please, Father Abraham, at least send into my father's home, for I have five brothers, and I want him to warn them so they don't end up in this place of torment. 00:18:40.640 --> 00:18:43.279 But Abraham said, Moses and the prophets have warned them. 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:44.720 Your brothers can read what they wrote. 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:50.400 The rich man replied, No, Father Abraham, but if someone is sent to them from the dead, then they will repent of their sins and turn to God. 00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:57.359 But Abraham said, if they won't listen to Moses and the prophets, they won't be persuaded, even if someone rises from the dead. 00:18:58.240 --> 00:18:59.839 That's one of those teachings of Jesus. 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:00.799 That's Jesus talking. 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:01.759 I'm a Jesus follower. 00:19:01.839 --> 00:19:02.960 His words matter. 00:19:03.519 --> 00:19:11.039 And it creates that sort of uneasiness in us, going like he's talking about very high stakes. 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:25.920 Matthew chapter 25, verses 31 through 33, he says, But when the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne, and all the nations will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:37.440 He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left, and then in verse 46, he says, And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will have eternal life. 00:19:38.480 --> 00:19:47.680 So again, the stakes are high, and essentially about a third of Jesus' parables, which are the stories that he tells to illustrate who God is and what God does, a third of them are warnings. 00:19:48.559 --> 00:20:09.920 And so while it is true that the overall arc of Scripture is not about you know going to heaven, but more about heaven coming here, it would also be a lie, a fabrication for me to say, oh yeah, there's really not a lot in Scripture that talks about what happens after this life and the potential severity of that. 00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:11.599 That's clearly there. 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:14.960 So how do we come to terms with that? 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:25.680 And I think what's really helpful is a major paradigm shift that is something that I've wrestled with and had to deal with in my own life, and it's something that my friend is wrestling with as well. 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:37.519 It's a paradigm shift of understanding the dynamic of what it means to choose God or to reject God, and even what heaven and hell actually are in some ways. 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:39.119 It's been very helpful for me. 00:20:39.279 --> 00:20:46.079 I don't think, by the way, there's some like easy uh one line or one idea that you're like, oh, totally, everything now, no more questions. 00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:47.200 That's not the way it works. 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:53.440 I wish there was a chapter in the Bible that was like, oh, on heaven and hell, here's how it works, and A, then B, then C, and there's like a diagram, that would be really helpful. 00:20:53.599 --> 00:20:54.480 It doesn't exist. 00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:56.240 Maybe we're meant to wrestle with this. 00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:00.000 But there is a paradigm shift that has been very helpful for me. 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:12.319 And it's it's moving from understanding heaven and hell through the con uh through the context of reward or punishment, and instead seeing it through the context of relationship. 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:15.920 So moving from reward to relationship. 00:21:16.079 --> 00:21:20.079 We tend to see heaven as the reward for being a good person. 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:23.839 And you saw that in my friend's text. 00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:32.160 He's wrestling with the idea that he's got a family member who he says is a better man than me in many ways, and yet has rejected God. 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:37.359 And so the implications of judgment, and does that mean he's gonna be separated from God? 00:21:37.599 --> 00:21:39.519 Does that mean he's gonna be in hell? 00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:42.960 How could that be if he's a better man than me? 00:21:44.319 --> 00:21:48.799 And that's that reward paradigm that we often look at heaven with, right? 00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:51.279 Like it's the reward for being a good person. 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:59.680 And and by that line of thinking, that that means that we acknowledge that how good we are is the line, and anyone who's as good. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.000 Good or better than us ought to make it. 00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:06.160 And anyone who's worse than us ought not to make it. 00:22:07.599 --> 00:22:12.400 And the reality is that's something that scripture actually turns upside down for us. 00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:18.400 See, we tend to we tend to think in terms of good enough. 00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:21.440 Or we're not good enough. 00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:25.519 But what if what if no one's good enough? 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:32.400 Jesus had an interesting interaction with a man who came to him once and said, Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:34.160 And Jesus said, Why do you call me good? 00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:36.240 Only God is good. 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:40.319 It's an interesting line from Jesus. 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:47.759 But the idea is that there is a level of goodness that only God, only God can claim. 00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:49.599 Only Jesus could claim. 00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:58.720 And that level of goodness is actually the standard versus our own sort of convenient inventions of how good should should good enough be. 00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:02.640 I had an interesting conversation with my oldest son when he was about nine years old. 00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:05.359 Uh that there was an opportunity to explain this to him. 00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:09.279 And you guys might know this, but I have a I have a son who loves basketball, and he he really does. 00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:10.480 He loves to play basketball. 00:23:10.720 --> 00:23:13.839 I haven't dropped that line in a few months, so it's taken a lot of self-control. 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:14.400 It's over that. 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:15.759 The streak is over. 00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:30.160 So a couple years ago, you know, we were talking, he was in the backseat, and uh and and I had just been thinking about this concept, and I was talking to him about some stuff related to this, and so I said, Well, Liam, let me ask you a question. 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:32.160 Are you good at basketball? 00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:33.839 And he said, Yeah, I'm good at basketball. 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:35.359 I was like, awesome. 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:37.839 And I said, What's the best part of your game? 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:38.960 He's like, I'm a good shooter. 00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:40.400 I was like, cool, I agree with that. 00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:42.240 And I said, Who's your favorite player? 00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:43.599 And he said, Steph Curry. 00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:45.680 I said, Okay, is Steph Curry good at basketball? 00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:46.640 He's like, Oh, yeah. 00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:47.279 Definitely. 00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:48.880 I said, Is Steph Curry a good shooter? 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:49.599 He's like, Yes. 00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:52.880 I said, awesome, so that means you're just like Steph Curry. 00:23:53.359 --> 00:23:55.359 He's like, oh no, I'm nothing like Steph Curry. 00:23:55.920 --> 00:24:01.440 And I said, well, hold on, you you just said that that he's good and that you're good, right? 00:24:01.519 --> 00:24:04.079 And he's like, yeah, but I don't mean the same thing. 00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:09.680 You know, and I said, but you just said you're a good shooter, and he's a good shooter, so when you shoot, you shoot just like Steph Curry. 00:24:09.759 --> 00:24:11.599 He's like, I don't shoot anything like Steph Curry. 00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:13.519 And I was like, well, then you're not good. 00:24:13.759 --> 00:24:14.960 He's like, no, I am good. 00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:19.839 I'm like, but you said Steph Curry's good, and then you said you're nothing like Steph Curry, so which is it? 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:24.240 And he said, Dad, I'm just good compared to like seven-year-olds. 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:28.880 And I said, Well, that's very different, right? 00:24:30.079 --> 00:24:35.440 But it's it's even though it's a child and it's a really simple example, it's it's very it's very often what we do. 00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:39.279 We create a standard of good that is often very convenient. 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:49.519 And our minds think in this sort of reward paradigm, this lens of reward, so that in our minds, heaven is when you're good enough for God. 00:24:50.240 --> 00:24:53.039 And if you ask the average person in America, are you going to heaven? 00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:55.440 They'll also like almost everyone says yes. 00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:58.079 Like it's very rare to find someone who's like, no, I'm not going. 00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:02.480 They're like, Yeah, I'm going, you know, because I'm I'm a pretty good person. 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:08.400 And if we think in those terms, then everyone who is as good as us or better ought to be there. 00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:13.759 And everyone who's below that line, maybe way below that line, isn't, but that's not the way it works. 00:25:14.400 --> 00:25:17.359 Hear me when I say this, because it's a little bit of a semantic thing. 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:19.359 There's no there are no good people in heaven. 00:25:21.519 --> 00:25:22.319 This is just not. 00:25:22.480 --> 00:25:24.000 That's not how it works. 00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:35.599 There are people in heaven who are forgiven, who have been acquitted, as we talked about last week. 00:25:36.319 --> 00:25:37.599 Nobody makes it by merit. 00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:40.400 Like, if you show up to heaven with a resume, I just want to warn you. 00:25:40.960 --> 00:25:49.039 Don't just don't even don't like, hey, I've I've made a list for you of why I believe I belong in this perfect place. 00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:54.160 It's not about reward, it's about relationship. 00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:55.279 Let's look at it this way. 00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:56.799 Matthew chapter 7. 00:25:57.279 --> 00:26:01.119 Jesus says, Not everyone who calls out to me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven. 00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:03.200 Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven. 00:26:03.279 --> 00:26:06.799 Now, right now it seems like it's that reward paradigm, but it's not. 00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:13.519 He says, On judgment day, many will say to me, Lord, Lord, we prophesied in your name and we cast out demons in your name and perform many miracles in your name. 00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:14.559 That's the resume, right? 00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:16.160 Lord, look at all the things we did. 00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:18.079 We did all this awesome stuff. 00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:20.720 And we did it in your name. 00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:24.480 But I will reply, he says, I never knew you. 00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:28.079 Get away from me, you who break God's laws. 00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:32.640 He says, it's about knowing him. 00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:35.279 It's about relationship. 00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:39.519 It's not about how good you are. 00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:46.799 And guys, if you make it how good you are, that's an exhausting way to live. 00:26:47.200 --> 00:26:49.119 Trying to be good enough for God. 00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:50.799 That's what religion is all about. 00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:52.640 This is not a religion. 00:26:52.960 --> 00:26:54.319 Our faith is not a religion. 00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:56.480 People turn it into a religion, but it's not a religion. 00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:00.480 Because religion is do all the things that you have to do to be good enough for God. 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:02.160 This is a relationship. 00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:03.920 God has loved you. 00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:06.000 He's given himself for you. 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:07.680 You don't have to do anything. 00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:09.279 You can't do enough. 00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:16.720 It'd be like if one of your children, those of you who have kids, came to you and said, Hey, you know, dad, mom, I've decided I don't want to start paying you back for all you've done for me. 00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:19.359 It's like, not gonna happen. 00:27:19.680 --> 00:27:20.319 You know? 00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:23.920