WEBVTT 00:00:05.440 --> 00:00:07.440 Hello, my name is James Rathman. 00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:08.800 And I'm Aaron Neff. 00:00:08.960 --> 00:00:11.359 And this is the Aaron and James Podcast. 00:00:11.679 --> 00:00:13.039 It's great to be back with you. 00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:14.240 Man, it really is. 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:16.640 It's been a it feels like it's been a while. 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:20.160 I was on vacation, then last week was Easter week. 00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:21.120 Yeah. 00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:23.359 And so lots of things. 00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:24.800 Lots of things going on. 00:00:25.519 --> 00:00:30.480 This week's episode of the podcast is brought to you by Friday's Men's Night. 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:35.920 Friday's Men's Night will be at Redemption Church Denver from 7 to 9 p.m. 00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:38.799 And uh it should be a great time. 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:42.719 We're talking about the call of men to provide provision. 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:43.520 Nice. 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:54.399 It's uh weight that men feel, and it's a glorious calling, and we're gonna talk about it. 00:00:55.359 --> 00:00:56.079 Perfect. 00:00:56.320 --> 00:00:57.200 Perfect. 00:00:57.520 --> 00:00:58.240 Alrighty. 00:00:58.399 --> 00:01:02.320 Today we are discussing Romans chapter seven. 00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:12.560 And this will be our last Romans podcast for a while because our studies as a church don't pick up back in Romans until the fall. 00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:13.280 Okay. 00:01:13.920 --> 00:01:18.400 So that's that's the way we decided to do it. 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:18.879 Yeah. 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:20.159 Go on a hike. 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:22.959 Yeah, you can go on a hike instead. 00:01:23.280 --> 00:01:24.159 That'd be great. 00:01:24.480 --> 00:01:27.280 Get to see some animals. 00:01:27.599 --> 00:01:29.280 Our family likes raccoon trail. 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:30.480 Oh, that sounds nice. 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:30.719 Yeah. 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:32.959 What types of things do you see on raccoon trail? 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:34.159 Not raccoons. 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:34.719 Really? 00:01:34.879 --> 00:01:39.200 Yeah, just rocks and twigs and things of that nature. 00:01:39.519 --> 00:01:40.319 Wow, sounds nice. 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:41.519 Naturey things. 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:43.120 Sounds very nice. 00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:44.079 All right. 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:45.760 Let's talk about Roman 7. 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:47.519 What do you like about Roman 7? 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:51.920 I mean, what don't I like about Romans 7? 00:01:52.239 --> 00:01:52.640 Good. 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:55.840 That's probably one of my favorite things to do without answering the question. 00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:58.799 It's just saying ask another question. 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:02.319 I also I also don't know that. 00:02:03.760 --> 00:02:07.200 No, I have two categories of things I don't know. 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:21.120 I I think uh the thing I like about Romans 7 is it seems to kind it seems to speak to our experience just as Christians and the struggle that we have. 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:21.840 Yeah. 00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:26.719 Um and so it's yeah, makes you feel like you're not alone. 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:28.240 God actually understands us. 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:28.879 Yes. 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:31.120 Um and he's he's bearing witness to that. 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:31.520 Yeah. 00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:36.080 Paul isn't some strange uh type of Christian from another planet or something. 00:02:36.240 --> 00:02:36.879 Yeah. 00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:42.479 But he experiences within him within himself doing things he doesn't want to do. 00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:48.240 And then it is like, okay, so what do I do with that? 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:55.680 Um if I'm in Christ and I still find myself doing these things that I don't want to do, what is what does that mean? 00:02:55.759 --> 00:02:56.400 Yeah. 00:02:56.879 --> 00:03:02.319 And he sees it as testifying to something glorious. 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:04.639 Uh which is which is pretty wild. 00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:05.199 Sure. 00:03:05.360 --> 00:03:11.280 Which is bound up in it, yeah, but it testifies to something more glorious that the Spirit's doing. 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:15.039 Which is opposite of I think what we tend to do ourselves. 00:03:15.280 --> 00:03:15.520 Yeah. 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:22.159 We tend to feel the battle and feel the conflict and then pronounce judgment on ourselves in a negative way. 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:22.800 Right. 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:23.680 Yeah. 00:03:23.919 --> 00:03:24.319 Right. 00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:27.680 So it I think it's a super encouraging chapter. 00:03:28.000 --> 00:03:37.199 There's the Christianity is a war in our experience of it in this life. 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:40.960 And that's so hard when you don't know that. 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:41.759 Yeah. 00:03:42.479 --> 00:03:55.280 And I think like one of the worst tricks of like prosperity preaching is to convince people that it's not a war. 00:03:55.520 --> 00:04:02.240 And that if it if your experience of Christianity is a war, then something's going wrong. 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:04.319 And it's something's off. 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:06.080 Like you're playing, you're you're doing it wrong. 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:07.199 You're playing it upside down. 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:07.680 Yeah. 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:10.159 But that's not the case at all. 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:13.199 Uh there's it's headed towards peace. 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:15.439 There's experiences of peace. 00:04:15.520 --> 00:04:20.720 There's a there's a deep peace that we have that we participate in by hope. 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:23.680 Um, but you're at war. 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:24.480 Yeah. 00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:32.879 Well, culturally too, it seems like we're told that same message the prosperity gospel gives is you shouldn't be at conflict. 00:04:33.040 --> 00:04:33.360 Yep. 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:38.240 Don't repress these desires because you're denying yourself. 00:04:38.800 --> 00:04:40.399 Yeah, that's true. 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:41.279 That's true. 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:43.759 So it is just like a syncretism. 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:44.240 Yeah. 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:47.839 That uh line of Christianity. 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:54.879 Um and it it it can I think it can be a relief just to recognize like, yep, it's it's a war. 00:04:55.519 --> 00:05:01.439 Um sin's still raging, and it still requires combat. 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:07.279 Um and then we're we're given here glimpses. 00:05:07.519 --> 00:05:17.519 I think the fullness of the picture is shown in Romans 8, but we're given here glimpses of the shape of the war, but it points us towards uh how we engage in it. 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:17.920 Yeah. 00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:21.519 Which is by the spirit, mindset on the spirit. 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:22.879 Okay. 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:27.120 So then main theme of chapter 7? 00:05:28.160 --> 00:05:28.959 The law? 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:30.240 Yes. 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:31.199 Okay. 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:34.560 How does that fit in with what we've been talking about so far? 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:44.720 Why does he bring up the law here The Law is the arena of conflict. 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:55.279 It is the context which in which sin enters, in which in which our enemy enters, which is sin. 00:05:56.160 --> 00:06:17.519 And it's the uh opportunity for uh rebellion in our hearts to for rebellion in our in our members and in our flesh to uh uh uh be actualized. 00:06:18.720 --> 00:06:22.720 Uh it's the the boundary that can be transgressed. 00:06:22.959 --> 00:06:28.319 So that's that's like the uh the way that Paul describes the law to us in this. 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:28.959 Yeah. 00:06:29.279 --> 00:06:29.600 Okay. 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:50.000 Um the way that the the Jews would would have fought this previously, they would it seems like they would be using the law in a way to to kind of fight this battle as a way of justifying themselves, sanctifying themselves and proving you know they're more holy than other people. 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:51.040 Yeah, that's right. 00:06:51.279 --> 00:07:02.079 Okay, and so what we're being given here by Paul is a way that just a reframing of that justification is by faith, sanctification is not by the law, but by the spirit. 00:07:02.319 --> 00:07:04.319 But by the spirit, and this is how this really works. 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:05.839 Yes, exactly. 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:06.720 Exactly. 00:07:06.959 --> 00:07:20.800 So uh maybe we'll jump in right at the beginning of chapter seven and explore uh these first several verses in the this analogy for adultery to describing the Christian's relationship to the law now. 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:21.360 Okay. 00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:37.519 So in after chapter six, which describes you're dead to sin and you're no longer enslaved to it, and you have a new master, and uh you've got a free gift, no longer wages. 00:07:40.000 --> 00:07:48.879 He says, Or you not know, brothers, for I am speaking to those who know the law, that the law is binding on a person only as long as he lives. 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:57.680 For a married woman is bound by law to her husband while he lives, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. 00:07:58.079 --> 00:08:04.959 Accordingly, she will be called an adulteress if she lives with another man while her husband is alive. 00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:12.720 But if her husband dies, she is free from that law, and if she marries another man, she is not an adulteress. 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:19.600 Okay, so he's describing here's here's the analogy for the law and the way to understand it. 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:32.480 When the law is like a spouse, and when you're married, then the capacity for adultery has entered the relationship. 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:35.360 That's what's happened here. 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:35.759 Yeah. 00:08:36.000 --> 00:08:45.039 So when you're under the law, then the capacity for sin and transgression has entered the relationship. 00:08:45.200 --> 00:08:45.679 Yeah. 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:59.039 But you can so then if you died to the law, then the capacity for adultery has been removed in the relationship. 00:08:59.200 --> 00:09:01.120 Yeah, because the person's dead. 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:01.919 Doesn't apply. 00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:03.759 Doesn't apply anymore. 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:06.720 So that's the picture of what has happened with us in Christ. 00:09:06.879 --> 00:09:07.519 Yeah. 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:10.159 Yeah, dead people don't get speeding tickets. 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:11.200 Nope. 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:14.080 They don't have to pay taxes. 00:09:14.480 --> 00:09:14.799 No. 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:15.919 What? 00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:16.480 Yeah. 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:18.720 There's so much dead people don't have to do. 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:19.840 It's the same. 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:20.159 Yeah. 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:22.399 I can think of all kinds of things. 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:24.799 Make a decision about lunch. 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:26.720 Don't have to do that. 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:28.159 Not again. 00:09:28.480 --> 00:09:29.279 Not again. 00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:31.679 That's not necessarily being bound under the law. 00:09:31.840 --> 00:09:32.159 Yeah. 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:37.840 But there's a so the so it's that type of that's the shape of the freedom. 00:09:38.159 --> 00:09:43.440 So we see that the marriage is the context by which adultery is made possible. 00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:51.440 So then you could ask naturally after that to sort of tip our hand of where we're headed. 00:09:51.679 --> 00:09:53.519 Oh, well then is marriage bad? 00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:59.120 If marriage is the context in which adultery is made possible, then marriage must be bad. 00:09:59.279 --> 00:09:59.919 Yeah. 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:01.919 But we don't think that. 00:10:02.320 --> 00:10:02.639 Right. 00:10:02.879 --> 00:10:09.919 We don't think like, oh, because marriage created the context for adultery, marriage is bad. 00:10:10.000 --> 00:10:11.120 That's not the conclusion we draw. 00:10:11.440 --> 00:10:13.519 Or marriage made you commit adultery, yeah. 00:10:13.759 --> 00:10:13.919 Right. 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:15.840 Marriage is the thing that made you commit adultery. 00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:16.159 No. 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:19.360 It's the sin within you that made you commit adultery. 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:20.799 Marriage is good. 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:23.360 Makes sense. 00:10:23.679 --> 00:10:40.159 So he goes on and he says, Likewise, my brothers, you also have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God. 00:10:40.639 --> 00:10:42.639 Which is what that's what you do in a marriage. 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:56.080 You know, you you're dead to the um to the law, you're remarried in Christ, and then you bear fruit with Christ. 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:57.919 That's uh uh in this new marriage. 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:00.480 Yeah, it's like what marriage is for like you have kids. 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:04.399 Yeah, there's uh yeah, it seems like there's two things it it brings out. 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:10.639 It's like it brings out the ability to have adultery or to bear fruit. 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:11.759 Yes. 00:11:12.159 --> 00:11:14.000 Yes, that's right. 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:27.919 Now, for while we were living in the flesh, our sinful passions, aroused by the law, were at work in our members to bear fruit for death. 00:11:28.960 --> 00:11:41.919 But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, not in the old way of the written code. 00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:52.000 So now the life in Christ, wed to him, is no longer under the curse of the law, because you're dead to that. 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:52.159 Yeah. 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:56.000 And so it you can no longer commit adultery against it. 00:11:57.519 --> 00:12:11.039 Now you live in the new way of the spirit, which is able to then take dominion over these uh sinful members and parts of us. 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:19.039 They'll be unified in a life lived in the spirit, brought under dominion and unified in you. 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:20.799 Those are like the same thing. 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:21.759 Yeah. 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:38.240 Um, so from from here, I think we can say that Paul would you could almost take Romans 8 and just plug it up right under verse 6, and it would still make sense. 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:47.600 Um, because he introduces uh that we serve in the new way of the spirit, not in the old way of the written code. 00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:50.879 And then Romans 8 is like, how do you live by the Spirit? 00:12:50.960 --> 00:12:51.120 Yeah. 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:53.519 What is the life that lives by the Spirit look like? 00:12:53.679 --> 00:13:02.799 And what sort of assurances and benefits does it have, and how does it uh by the spirit put to death the deeds of the body so that we might live? 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:06.000 Uh so you could plug it up right there and it would make sense. 00:13:06.240 --> 00:13:22.720 But instead of doing that, he takes almost this like aside to make this reinforcement of the remaining sections of Romans 7, where he's like, okay, so look at what this battle looks like. 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:26.960 Let me demonstrate the legitimacy of the law. 00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:44.720 Let me show you how you in your two natures, which are those parts of you that are still flesh, and which sin remains in your members, and how you experience the war of the spirit against those things. 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:45.279 Yeah. 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:58.240 Because you might find that you're driven to this despair and discouragement uh by uh sin which is still provoked by the law in our fleshly members. 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:09.360 Uh but he wants us to see the reality of that war, I think so that when he comes into Romans 8, we're like, man, we need to learn how to live by the Spirit. 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:29.600 Um because if I'm trying to uh engage in this new pattern of life in the spirit, uh by the old mechanisms of uh fulfilling the law, then uh you you're dead. 00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:30.480 Yeah. 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:33.759 Yeah, it's interesting. 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:45.840 Well, it's it seems to be then that this war that we're talking about is basically sanctification of how we become more and more like Christ. 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:46.799 Right. 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:56.799 And you know, when he says, for I'm speaking to those that know the law, um, I'm assuming maybe that meant Jews, given the context of both Jew and Gentile. 00:14:56.960 --> 00:14:57.279 Yeah. 00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:01.840 The Jews would would be more apt to know the law. 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:09.759 Um, and and the way that he's describing this then is that he's like the the work of the law leads to death. 00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:38.240 Um and so it seems like one of the things that they probably would have been used to doing was not only using the law to justify them as we're the chosen people of God, uh, were different than the rest of the nations, but then even within the context of their own people, they used it as ways for justifying their sanctification. 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:43.679 Where you see the Pharisee go to pray and he says, God, I thank I thank you that I'm not like this other man. 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:44.399 Right. 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:59.200 Um, and what Paul is saying here is that that's that's a m inappropriate use of of the law, because that that leads um to sin, which you know is aroused by the law and then is ultimately gonna produce death. 00:15:59.600 --> 00:15:59.840 Right. 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:05.360 So they they misunderstood that the law was arousing sin within them. 00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:05.919 Yeah. 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.519 That it was creating the context by which sin would deceive them. 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:31.039 And so the other I mean, the other thing I was gonna ask you what what you if you you know what your thoughts are on this, but the when it says that the new way of the spirit and not in the old way of the written code, um to me that kind of reminded me of the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus is saying, like, hey, you've heard it said, do not murder. 00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:42.240 But now, if you I'm saying to you, if you say you fool or or you I hate, you know, you hate your brother, that's the same as murder. 00:16:42.639 --> 00:17:01.200 Um, and so it seems like there's a sense a sense in which this new way through the spirit will actually show us the real sinfulness of sin, what life is actually supposed to be, but also that we still won't be able to do that, and so we won't be able to sanctify ourselves. 00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:17.920 Yeah, there's a um so you can kind of see like a maturing that God does for his people throughout the scriptures. 00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:31.680 And uh one of the ways that Paul describes the law is as a tutor or an instructor for a time uh to kind of like watch over his people. 00:17:32.799 --> 00:17:50.640 And the the the old covenant is sort of like a um like a scaffolding that's put around a um I don't know piece of art because it needs to be held up until it dries or whatever. 00:17:50.799 --> 00:17:50.960 Sure. 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:58.240 And then once it once it dries, then it's you can take that down and it and the the beauty of the thing itself remains. 00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:01.839 The the law acts like that, is like this tutor. 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:20.880 Um now the the life in the spirit which we which we now are able to enter into and live, um it's it's strangely it it like requires fewer and fewer laws. 00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:53.759 Where Jesus is he's um in a sense he's like refining the law down to its most essential components, but those are only able to be and then those would be lived out uh with uh they're they're not lived out in the way of like how the priest would just go the priest to know what to do just goes and reads exactly what to do. 00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:56.880 And they just do exactly what they're told. 00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:01.359 Um The life of the Christian is different than that. 00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:08.640 It's not like the it's not like the priest who just goes and is like, okay, there's this yellow dot on your skin. 00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:18.880 It says here uh that if to come back in a week, and if it doesn't clear up in a week, then uh you gotta clean your whole house. 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:20.319 So come back in a week. 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.000 And the priest knows exactly what to do. 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:22.400 Yeah. 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:25.759 He's told he's got this scaffolding around him. 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:30.400 He's he's not mature, can't stand on his own two feet yet. 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:32.480 He needs exact instruction. 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:56.319 But by the Spirit, there's uh we're we're able to, exactly like you're saying, like discern the essence of the law, to where Jesus would be able to say something like, you know, here's the here's the essential components of the law. 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:02.000 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:04.559 On this hangs all the law and the prophets. 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:08.880 And there so there's like an essentialness to it that you grasp. 00:20:09.119 --> 00:20:28.000 But then when you when he moves into like particulars of like adultery, he is able to say, like, you know, front if I the mature person like who has this essential reality, they would see that like even lust in the heart is the same as adultery, or it's tying up to the reality of adultery. 00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:48.240 Um and so there's a uh maturing of our sanctification because it's the uh the spirit is bringing coherence to who we are. 00:20:49.519 --> 00:21:10.559 Um rather than uh you know, just you know another analogy is like you know, it if you can play piano, it's like you can hit the notes just perfectly. 00:21:10.960 --> 00:21:14.880 But if you to like make a music, you know, it's just gotta be in you. 00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:15.279 Yeah. 00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:19.759 The spirit is like, yeah, the law of God is in you, and so it will flow out of you. 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:21.599 Yeah, written on your heart. 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:22.400 Yeah. 00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:35.759 So it seems like then they there's this objection that's presented to say, but you know, to Paul, based on this argument, is what shall we say then? 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:37.039 Is the law sin? 00:21:37.680 --> 00:21:42.000 You know, and it seems like he's saying that because it's the law that arouses our sinful passions. 00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:42.799 Right. 00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:45.440 Um how does Paul answer that? 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:49.200 Well, let's go we'll we'll read it because this section's kind of weird. 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:51.119 He says, So is the law sin? 00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:52.000 By no means. 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:56.319 Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. 00:21:56.640 --> 00:22:02.559 For I would not have known what it is to covet, had the law not Said, You shall not covet. 00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:10.799 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. 00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:16.559 For apart from the law, sin lies dead. 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:23.839 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive, and I died. 00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:28.000 The very commandment that promised life proved to be death to me. 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:33.359 For sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, deceived me and through it killed me. 00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:37.839 So the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:50.720 Okay, so I think he's doing he's doing a lot of work here, but he's still, I think, playing off of this analogy of marriage. 00:22:52.880 --> 00:23:04.079 And uh he's also uh you can I I think uh thinking back to that the original sin in the garden. 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:10.000 And you can hear this in the covetousness, as we were talking about earlier, yeah. 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:15.039 And you can hear this in the uh the idea that sin comes in and deceives him. 00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:20.720 And so deception is like the the sin in the garden is marked by deception. 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:24.079 A serpent is more crafty than any other creature. 00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:30.160 Exactly, and comes in and deceives Eve, and and then Adam participates in that deception. 00:23:31.119 --> 00:23:41.680 Now, there's some weird phrases in here where he's like, I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died. 00:23:41.920 --> 00:23:53.519 Now, I don't think he's actually imagining, like reflecting on a moment in his life in which he is like, There was no law, and you know, I just did whatever I wanted that summer. 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:54.319 Yeah. 00:23:55.039 --> 00:23:57.759 And it was all guilt-free, wonderful. 00:23:58.240 --> 00:24:01.519 Um, that's not the type of reflection that's happening. 00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:19.920 What he's uh, but he is sort of like playing out this uh in and you don't need to think of it as like temporally either, like before Adam, like those moments before Adam heard from God to not eat from that tree. 00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:21.680 You know, like what those moments were like. 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:36.079 He's just he's not laying out a temporal causality, he's laying out a logical causality where he's saying that uh apart from the law, there is no context of violation. 00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:48.720 There's in it, it's simplest, I think he's already said it even more simply, which is apart from marriage, there is no adultery. 00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:53.920 Because who you can't commit adultery against someone you're not married to. 00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:54.240 Right. 00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:55.680 You all everybody knows that. 00:24:57.039 --> 00:25:33.359 And so here he's saying, so what happened is there was a commandment given, and as the com what happened with the commandment is it was uh created the opportunity for violation to take place, and Satan came in and deceived, and uh through his deception, he killed Adam, and we're all in Adam. 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:36.000 So this sin is all of our sins. 00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:41.599 But the context of the sinfulness of it is the commandment. 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:42.079 Yeah. 00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:44.559 But that doesn't mean the commandment is bad. 00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:46.480 The commandment is is good. 00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:50.640 Yeah, it was a good and right and just commandment. 00:25:51.599 --> 00:26:01.759 But through the good thing, Satan twists it, causes our deception, and that good thing was the opportunity for violation, and so he pulls us down into death. 00:26:01.920 --> 00:26:18.319 So it's like the commandment, in one sense, uh creates the means or the the opportunity or the mechanism which enlivens sin and that sin kills us. 00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:23.440 Uh that's what the that's what the commandment did. 00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:27.599 Uh that's not what the commandment is. 00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:29.039 The commandment is good. 00:26:29.200 --> 00:26:29.519 Yeah. 00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:33.920 But it's the sinfulness that is that is truly bad. 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:34.799 Yeah. 00:26:35.759 --> 00:26:38.799 So the law then isn't sin. 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:45.920 So then the next question is, but is that which is good bring does it bring death to me? 00:26:47.119 --> 00:26:49.839 Yeah, so does the law itself bring death? 00:26:50.079 --> 00:26:50.400 Yeah. 00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:53.119 And the it's again a negative answer. 00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:53.519 Yeah. 00:26:53.759 --> 00:26:54.880 By no means. 00:26:56.079 --> 00:27:11.680 So he says, it was sin producing death in me through what is good, in order that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure. 00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:16.880 So it's like the commandment makes the sin absolute and explicit. 00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:25.039 And without the commandment, there's it couldn't be it couldn't bind up in the same way. 00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:25.519 Yeah. 00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:45.839 And when when I see Paul doing this, I I always think that we're headed towards this like climactic moment at the end of chapter 11, where he finally concludes in Romans 11, 32, for God has consigned all to disobedience that he may have mercy on all. 00:27:46.240 --> 00:27:51.759 And so he's describing here how is it that we were all consigned to disobedience. 00:27:52.000 --> 00:28:00.559 And it's part of that is the introduction of the law, because the law makes sin absolute and explicit and explicit. 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:06.000 It's even it even arouses our sin because we desire to transgress. 00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:08.480 We desire it creates the opportunity for rebellion. 00:28:08.640 --> 00:28:08.880 Yeah. 00:28:09.039 --> 00:28:10.480 You know, there is no rebellion. 00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:15.039 If you can't rebel against somebody that you have no relationship with. 00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:15.920 Right. 00:28:16.319 --> 00:28:19.359 But the relationship then creates the opportunity for rebellion. 00:28:19.440 --> 00:28:21.440 The marriage creates the opportunity for adultery. 00:28:21.680 --> 00:28:25.440 Are are friends and spouses bad? 00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:27.759 By no means. 00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:36.559 But the sin, which then tears those things apart and transgresses those, well, now it's truly sinful. 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:42.160 Now it now it's not just, you know, talking, it's adultery. 00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:42.720 Yeah. 00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:48.480 You know, it's that that lust has now grown up into this um betrayal. 00:28:50.319 --> 00:28:53.440 So that so then what why does he do that? 00:28:53.599 --> 00:29:00.960 I think we when we always keep in our minds, he's doing this so that he might be the one who saves. 00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:01.359 Yeah. 00:29:01.519 --> 00:29:03.759 So that he might show his mercy. 00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:04.319 Yeah. 00:29:04.559 --> 00:29:10.640 Because it's also the context of mercy uh being shown. 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:11.519 Yeah. 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:25.279 So what what you're saying here then as well is that when he says that that it the commandment might become sinful beyond measure, that through the commandment might become sinful beyond measure is that is maybe sounds like two things. 00:29:25.440 --> 00:29:29.759 One is that he's he's the sin of Adam is stretching to all mankind. 00:29:30.000 --> 00:29:30.319 Right. 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:38.079 So, in a sense, when you look at every person that has existed from the beginning of the world, it's it's beyond measure. 00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:38.640 Yeah. 00:29:38.799 --> 00:29:41.680 Yeah, it's it's encompassing of everyone. 00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:53.039 But then it um it also seems like it's also just to show me that my sin is way more simple than I initially thought it was. 00:29:53.200 --> 00:29:53.839 Yeah. 00:29:54.079 --> 00:30:08.079 Whether that's and so we've been using marriage and and lasting covetousness, but when you when the law allows you to be really um specific based on actions. 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:09.680 Yeah, that's true. 00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:17.839 So how do you know if a person has committed a crime, well, they and violated the law, they would have taken a particular type of action. 00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:21.519 Yeah, you could see it on, you know, let's roll that tape back. 00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:22.160 Yeah. 00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:32.880 Uh but with the with the new with the spirit of the law, it's not only just your actions, it's your imaginations. 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:33.440 Yeah. 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:50.799 So that's the difference between like it's basically when Christ calls the Pharisees whitewashed tombs, it's because on the outside they're performing all these actions so that everyone would be able to look at them and see that hey, they're upright, like godly men. 00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:55.200 But what's actually happening on the inside is they're envious. 00:30:55.440 --> 00:30:59.279 Um, yeah, they hate Jesus, so they want to murder, and then they do murder. 00:30:59.440 --> 00:30:59.680 Yeah. 00:30:59.839 --> 00:31:04.559 Um, like you you kind of see those initial thoughts and imaginations play out. 00:31:04.799 --> 00:31:17.440 And don't you think that's why he he uh in looking back at the original sin, he's not saying the fruit eatingness of it. 00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:18.079 Yeah. 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:19.680 He says the covetousness. 00:31:20.240 --> 00:31:22.000 You can't that couldn't be filmed. 00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:22.400 Yeah. 00:31:22.559 --> 00:31:25.519 You know, this is just a this is something that takes place within your heart. 00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:26.720 That's right. 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:32.720 Yeah, so what what was Eve and Adam thinking just right before the actual eating? 00:31:33.279 --> 00:31:34.319 Looks good to me. 00:31:34.559 --> 00:31:35.200 Yeah. 00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:37.359 And that's all that matters. 00:31:37.599 --> 00:31:38.960 And I want to have it. 00:31:39.359 --> 00:31:40.720 And I can't have it. 00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:42.799 But that makes me want it more. 00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:55.759 And he's um and so there's there's this become sinful beyond measure. 00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:57.839 Yeah, that's such a great point. 00:31:58.880 --> 00:32:01.279 Like you're just so bound up in it. 00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:09.279 There's uh the level of sinfulness is like it's yeah, beyond measure. 00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:15.680 It's absolute, it's complete, it's it's um inescapable. 00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:16.559 Yeah. 00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:20.720 At the individual level and at the collective level. 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:21.119 Yeah. 00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:22.000 Yeah. 00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:29.119 And so I I think here he goes into the experience of that. 00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:35.599 And uh this section I hope people find encouraging. 00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:46.720 Um because i I think you'll you'll recognize this, like what it's like to be in the war as a Christian. 00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:53.839 But I am of the flesh, sold under sin. 00:32:55.359 --> 00:33:03.119 For I do not understand my own actions, for I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:07.519 That's a Yeah, it's kind of like that, isn't it? 00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:08.799 Yeah. 00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:18.960 Now, if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law that it is good because you don't want to do it. 00:33:19.279 --> 00:33:24.799 If you wanted to do it, then you would say, no, this transgression is is good. 00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:26.880 This the sin itself is good. 00:33:27.680 --> 00:33:38.799 But when you don't want to do it, uh you're agreeing with the law, that adherence to the law is good. 00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:39.519 Yeah. 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:54.000 Now there's there's uh it sounds like he's the debate of this chapter is like, is he talking about himself in Christ or is he talking about himself uh somebody who's outside of Christ? 00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:57.440 Um and he's talking about himself in Christ. 00:33:57.680 --> 00:34:30.000 The reason that you can argue both sides, I think, is because he's he uses I am statements for both um uh the he says uh uh I am of the flesh, and he is also the one who is uh it is no longer I who do it, but the sin that dwells in me. 00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:31.360 He's both of these. 00:34:32.960 --> 00:34:50.000 And both are he's the one who agrees with the law in his inner being, and he is the I am who is uh sold under flesh. 00:34:51.599 --> 00:35:09.119 And that's because he's describing the reality of the Christian, which is that you now have a war in you, and that war is provoked by the presence of the Spirit, which is in full agreement with the law. 00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:25.119 Yeah, and you used to have a unity in rebellion against the law, where you would commit the sin and say the sin was good, and you would celebrate others for committing sins in a like manner. 00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:27.440 And there's unity there. 00:35:27.840 --> 00:35:29.840