WEBVTT 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:06.559 Hi, my name's James Rathman. 00:00:06.799 --> 00:00:07.679 And I'm Aaron Neff. 00:00:08.080 --> 00:00:10.240 And this is the Aaron and James Podcast. 00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:19.440 This is one of our in-between Romans episodes where we'll explore some other topics or things that we're interested in. 00:00:19.839 --> 00:00:35.439 And today we have uh something that both of us happened upon that I think has been encouraging and convicting and uh inspirational for both of us and in our faith. 00:00:35.520 --> 00:00:36.880 And so we wanted to share it. 00:00:37.119 --> 00:00:41.119 Hope it will be for our church as well. 00:00:41.600 --> 00:00:42.880 Sounds great. 00:00:43.280 --> 00:00:51.920 This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Men's Night, which takes place on Friday, February 21st, from 7 to 9 p.m. 00:00:52.079 --> 00:00:52.880 here at the church. 00:00:53.039 --> 00:01:24.079 It is on the theme of protection, the man's call to protect, and what that means in uh all sorts of circumstances of um setting up boundaries of care for the people that we've been uh given in our responsibility, and uh how the call to protect is a show of love, and how the Lord promises to protect us and how He we participate in the love shown of His protection by protecting others as well. 00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:29.840 So that's gonna be a really great night, hopefully um encouraging for the men in our church. 00:01:30.159 --> 00:01:35.040 Likewise, this episode of the podcast is brought to you by the What is Membership class. 00:01:35.359 --> 00:01:40.879 So if you're interested in becoming a member, or if you can think of someone and you're thinking, hey, I think they should be a member. 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:52.400 I don't think they're connected in a parish or uh become a member of the church yet, shoot them a text and say, Hey, don't forget what is membership class is right after church on Sunday, February 23rd. 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:56.400 That's this Sunday if you're listening to this podcast upon release. 00:01:56.719 --> 00:01:59.040 So uh hope to see you there. 00:01:59.359 --> 00:02:02.079 Uh it's always fun to bring in new members. 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:02.640 Yeah. 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:03.599 I like that. 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:08.080 All right, so we'll jump into the topic, which we've left you on pins and needles and said nothing about. 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:11.360 But today's podcast is an aspirational podcast. 00:02:11.599 --> 00:02:12.719 Why is that, Aaron? 00:02:13.520 --> 00:02:19.520 Because we are in no way perfect at doing any of the things that we're going to talk about today. 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:20.479 Yeah, that's right. 00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:39.759 I feel like uh we've been introduced to uh uh like a new call to holiness, uh a new call to uh a level of spiritual battle um that was just really not in my purview before l looking at this book. 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:40.800 Yeah. 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:46.800 Um and it so we're talking about one guy, one book in particular. 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:48.800 One guy, one book. 00:02:49.120 --> 00:03:05.039 And I mean, even for me, I think I've had this book for a little while, but I've not I've not done a ton with it, but recently have picked it back up again, and like you're saying, just kind of felt called to actually do something with it in my own life. 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:12.800 Um so it's like on a theme of battle, it's like it would be like having the tools that you need at hand, but but not really working with them. 00:03:13.039 --> 00:03:13.439 Yep. 00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:19.680 Um and so yeah, I think it for me it's been also it's a call to pick those back up and get back to work. 00:03:20.000 --> 00:03:21.520 So what book are we talking about? 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:28.639 We're talking about it's called Talking Back, um, by a guy named Evagrius of Pontus. 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:30.639 Evagrius of Pontus. 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:31.840 Really old guy. 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:33.039 Yeah, how old? 00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:34.879 Uh third century. 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:36.000 Yeah, that's old. 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:36.960 Yeah, old. 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:41.120 He is uh I guess what they call one of the the desert fathers. 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:41.680 Yeah. 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:46.240 Uh a monk that lived uh in the desert, like right outside of Egypt, I believe. 00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:48.240 Yeah, yeah, i it was. 00:03:48.479 --> 00:03:50.240 And yeah, but Egyptian desert. 00:03:50.479 --> 00:04:02.479 With the whole point of um you know, the monastic role of um giving up the world and its passions and its lusts and desires and attaining to the knowledge of God. 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:06.159 Um but this book, Talking Back, is is pretty interesting. 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:07.680 What's the subtitle? 00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:12.000 The subtitle is A Monastic Handbook for Combating Demons. 00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:15.680 Now, if you don't want to hear about that, I mean who doesn't want to hear about that? 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:16.879 You've got the wrong podcast. 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:18.240 Yeah, for sure. 00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:23.680 But yeah, which is you know, the the first reading you're like, whoa. 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:24.879 Interesting. 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:32.800 Um So it's going to be like a book of i interesting spells and uh in potions and incantations and right. 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:37.279 We're we're we'll be performing an exorcist as a part of this upcoming men's night. 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:38.240 Yeah, that's right. 00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:50.240 It should if with with a subtitle like a monastic handbook for combating demons, I should happen upon something that's w well beyond anything that it's very exciting and m magical and adventurous. 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:56.000 But the ri in reality it's it's so practical. 00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:57.519 So practical. 00:04:58.000 --> 00:04:58.639 So practical. 00:04:58.800 --> 00:05:16.160 Well, what's interesting uh uh I mean, even to that point, is the introduction to the book talks a little bit about how a lot of the culture in that day would have had maybe spells or like these magic notions where they they recited certain things or did certain things to expect certain results. 00:05:16.399 --> 00:05:16.720 Right. 00:05:16.959 --> 00:05:28.240 Um and this, while it's it it kind of has that maybe that a little bit of that air to it, it it really is, it's much more practical uh in what he addresses. 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:40.079 And so I uh you know, I guess to first just to talk about the demons, um, you know, really those I think are are maybe demonic forces that are attacking us, but they're also he puts them into categories. 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:40.720 Yeah. 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:55.040 Uh so things like gluttony, fornication, the love of money, sadness, anger, listness or or sloth, and then vainglory and pride. 00:05:55.279 --> 00:05:55.920 Yeah. 00:05:56.160 --> 00:06:03.839 Um, which are all things that we probably wouldn't associate in our culture today a demonic power with. 00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:04.879 Yeah, that's right. 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:15.839 But he really uh shows the the sort of like personality behind these characteristics and then the particular lies that they attack us with. 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:16.720 Yeah. 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:23.199 And uh I think that just the so then it describe just the shape of his project. 00:06:23.279 --> 00:06:24.800 Like what is the how does he do this? 00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:31.199 So there's section on you know, the chapters are as you said, gluttony, fornication, love of money. 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:37.199 How does he structure the combat against those particular demons? 00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:49.519 He says in and it's really interesting that the the whole project here was it came about as a request from another, it seems like another monk um that lived in a different area. 00:06:49.759 --> 00:06:50.079 Uh-huh. 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:55.120 Basically, he was saying, I know you have a reputation for being able to combat demons. 00:06:55.439 --> 00:07:01.199 Can you help us understand like the things that maybe a monk might go through? 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:01.680 Yeah. 00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:07.839 And how then that monk might be able to um combat those types of things. 00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:15.519 So um at his friend's request, he basically he wrote these books, he put them in books, I guess. 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:33.120 Um, but he has little um kind of a little thoughts that go with them, and he he basically addresses uh his like refutation to the demon, um, or sometimes it's a demon, sometimes it's his own thoughts. 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:33.680 Yep. 00:07:33.839 --> 00:07:35.920 Sometimes maybe it's a person. 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:44.560 Um sometimes it's even uh an angel who has helped him overcome a thought, and it's a it's response of gratitude. 00:07:44.879 --> 00:07:45.360 Right. 00:07:45.600 --> 00:08:25.920 Um, so looking at all his interactions, whether it's with people or in the spiritual realm, as being spiritual interactions, and um so he'll he'll basically just um write a little scenario of what he might be struggling with, the thought he's had as a result of maybe a demonic force, his own flesh interacting with somebody else, and then he'll pair it with a Bible verse, yep, um, so that he can memorize or actually have a notebook that he can go back to in moments where he's struggling with something and be able to like read these types of things. 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:26.560 Yes. 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:36.399 So it's as simple as this he identifies the thought that he is thinking in his own mind, the thought that comes into his own mind. 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:53.120 And it this is not this is something that you know I think we all experience like suddenly I'm sort of fixated on this, or I I um this particular temptation has has arisen, or I'm I'm experiencing it right now. 00:08:53.360 --> 00:09:11.519 Uh so for for example, right out of chapter one, which is on gluttony, he describes uh in uh the the fifth thought that he lists is against the thought that says to me, the command to fast is burdensome. 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:17.759 You can imagine being a monk in the desert fasting for long periods of time. 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:20.080 Think this is burdensome. 00:09:21.519 --> 00:09:24.080 That doesn't seem outside the realm of imagination. 00:09:24.399 --> 00:09:25.519 I don't want to do this again. 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:31.440 And then he so then he pairs this with the scripture that he thinks instead. 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:42.240 And this is he chooses Deuteronomy 30, 11, which is the command that I give you this day is not burdensome, nor is it far from you. 00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:56.159 So the way that he combats these demons, the way that he engages directly in this spiritual warfare, is he he recognizes this thought and he identifies it as like a lie, like a demonic lie. 00:09:57.200 --> 00:10:10.240 And he uh he I feel like I immediately want to delve into the ontology and metaphysics, like, is this directly from the demon, or is this my flesh, or is this something I picked up on from the world? 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:16.480 Or he doesn't seem particularly interested in parsing those too far. 00:10:16.559 --> 00:10:22.159 He goes back and forth throughout the book, is some are directed to demons, some are just directed to the thought. 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:31.440 Uh and he says but the the point is that he combats that uh directly with scripture. 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:43.759 Now this insight is so plainly obvious because it is exactly what Christ does when Satan tempts him, he responds with scripture. 00:10:45.039 --> 00:11:04.559 And this shows us the usefulness of scripture as not just a dead letter or or like it just information to know. 00:11:04.879 --> 00:11:07.679 Yeah, it's not mythology or just random facts. 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:08.320 Right. 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:09.200 History. 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:10.080 Right. 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:18.159 It is the word of God and therefore the power of God against the enemies of God. 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:18.960 Yeah. 00:11:19.519 --> 00:11:39.279 And so I I think what's been so inspiring about this book and why I think of this as uh uh us presenting this as aspirational is because of course I would affirm that scripture is the power of God and the word of God, and it's shown to us as the sword for spiritual combat. 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:46.159 But I had never had it laid out to me practically how you do that. 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:46.559 Yeah. 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:52.159 And how you engage with that it at the the thought level. 00:11:54.159 --> 00:12:00.960 And he describes the importance of engaging with it at the at the thought level. 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:10.799 Uh which maybe Aaron, you could explain because it I think it would show um what the what the purpose of engaging with something like this is. 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:11.759 Sure. 00:12:12.320 --> 00:12:24.720 Yeah, I mean I I think the thought level is is one, I think it's interesting for us because we have a lot of beliefs, likely about our own righteousness or holiness or our walk with God. 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:29.919 Um and a lot of the things that we do and we we participate in are external to us. 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:41.519 Or um they're external in such a way where you can you can have a habit and um go about maybe overcoming something pretty with relative ease. 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:47.120 Um but I I think your thought life presents another level. 00:12:47.440 --> 00:13:01.360 Um there like there's one of these um there's a verse in there where it talks about or something he says or he talks about to this to the person who does who doesn't believe that like even a sinful thought is abomination to God. 00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:04.879 Um and this is kind of what Jesus is getting at with the Pharisees. 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:05.600 Yeah. 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:07.519 It feels the very Sermon on the Mount. 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:08.000 Yeah. 00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:15.360 You know, like where he's like uh adultery is uh Or lust is adultery. 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:16.320 Yes, exactly. 00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:19.039 If you lust after a woman in your heart, you've committed adultery with her. 00:13:19.279 --> 00:13:24.080 If you are angry and you call someone a fool, you've m this is murder. 00:13:24.240 --> 00:13:24.639 Yeah. 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:32.799 You know, so he's taking this to this heart thought level, as Jesus is showing um the the true interpretation of the law. 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:33.679 Right. 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:50.320 Yeah, and and as you even think about the Pharisees and the way that they um the way they even try to trap people in sin, or they bring the woman who committed adultery, and and Christ says, you know, you know, which of you without sin cast a first stone? 00:13:51.120 --> 00:13:58.159 Whether if if we're being honest, I think we can all see our thought life in that way. 00:13:58.399 --> 00:13:58.960 Yeah. 00:13:59.279 --> 00:14:03.919 And we're the only ones who really truly know how bad our thoughts are. 00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:04.480 Uh-huh. 00:14:04.960 --> 00:14:19.759 Um, and whether those thoughts are from our own nature and flesh, or whether those thoughts are coming from without, um there's there's this sense in which no one else can really ever know. 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:20.159 Right. 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:26.799 Even if I share things with you, um, you know, you won't really know what's inside my head. 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:28.080 You can't be inside my head. 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:28.639 Right. 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:45.440 And so I think there's an element um in which like our thoughts, there's this battleground that we have to we have to be more intentional on an individual level in fighting here than pretty much anywhere else. 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:46.000 Yeah. 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:58.879 Because um because it's one, it's so individual, my thoughts are not going to be the same things that that you you're struggling with, or maybe you're being tempted with. 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:05.200 Um and because like there's no there's no escaping the situation. 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:05.679 Yeah. 00:15:05.919 --> 00:15:10.480 It's not like Joseph and Potiver's wife, where he's able to run and leave his cloak behind. 00:15:10.639 --> 00:15:11.840 Yeah, you're still with you. 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:22.399 Your your thoughts in your head follows you wherever you go, whether you wake this first thing when you wake up in the morning or when you're laying your head down on your pillow at night, you can't escape them. 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:37.039 And uh they he has this real understanding of the connection, which I think is part of what Jesus is describing in the Sermon on the Mount, of our thoughts to our actions, that these are like seeds that grow. 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:37.519 Yeah. 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:45.279 And if they're not um warred against, then they w they will like manifest and bear bad fruit. 00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:45.840 Yeah. 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:50.320 Yeah, I've got these two quotes on that uh uh I'll read here. 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:58.559 Um so he he talks about this idea that there's you know there's good thoughts and there's bad thoughts, and then each of those thoughts can cut each other off. 00:15:58.720 --> 00:15:59.039 Uh-huh. 00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:12.399 Like an evil thought can, you know, if I'm thinking, I'm having a good thought and I'm praying, I can have an evil thought that's gonna cut off that good thought and make it really hard to focus on the Lord or my prayer at that point in time. 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:12.799 Yep. 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:13.759 And vice versa. 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:22.879 If I'm if I'm having uh a thought that's a temptation, I can bring about a good thought that will cut that that thought off. 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:29.519 And so he I'm just gonna read these two quotes I just thought was really interesting in in thinking about this. 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:35.679 Um so he says, Among the thoughts, some cut off and others are cut off. 00:16:35.840 --> 00:16:51.519 The evil thoughts cut off the good ones, likewise the evil thoughts are cut off by the good ones, and so the Holy Spirit pays attention to the thought that is given priority, and it condemns or approves us based on that. 00:16:52.159 --> 00:17:08.559 Um, and then he goes on to say, but if one of the thoughts that cut off persists, it settles in the place of cutting off, and eventually that person will be set in motion by the thought and become active. 00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:09.200 Yeah. 00:17:09.440 --> 00:17:24.240 Which to me gives me this like kind of the imagery of you know, we've got our two natures, we've got our as Christians, we've got the the the born-again nature that we're given when we get become a Christian, but there's still the indwelling sin. 00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:25.039 Yeah. 00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:32.480 And it's almost like we're Russian sleeper agents, and yeah, and we can be activated by a thought. 00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:34.480 Wow, that's a great image. 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:41.680 And if that thought, you know, if we may if we if we We're Manchurian candidates. 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:48.000 We're Manchurian candidates, and if we pay attention to that thought, that's it activates that aspect of our nature. 00:17:48.319 --> 00:17:55.759 It activates that, and then that's and that's what we typically end up following and doing, and our behavior flows out of it. 00:17:56.079 --> 00:17:56.720 Wow. 00:17:57.039 --> 00:17:59.920 How can I know all these things, not know my name? 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:00.880 Yeah. 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:02.240 Just uh Jason Bourne. 00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:02.799 Jason Bourne. 00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:06.079 That's a great image. 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:07.440 That'll preach, Aaron. 00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:10.640 I mean That'll preach. 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:11.200 Okay. 00:18:12.880 --> 00:18:21.119 But uh it just it have me it it I think it for me it helps me really understand the battle that's in our heads. 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:21.839 Yes. 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:24.720 And especially it frames it as really the front lines. 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:25.920 The front lines. 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:30.400 You know, this is where we can make those first engagements, and they can be really meaningful engagements. 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:31.039 Yeah. 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:42.880 Now you're I I hear that, and I'm thinking, like, what type of superhuman monk mind do you have? 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:43.200 Yeah. 00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:52.240 That you're able to just identify a thought and then think something else to cut it off, and then just keep thinking about that thing. 00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:54.799 Like, think about anything but pink elephants. 00:18:55.039 --> 00:18:59.200 What what type of magical mind do you have that you're able to sort of cut that off? 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:02.400 That that would s where where my head goes. 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:03.680 I don't know. 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:06.480 What do you how do you think Evagaris would respond to that? 00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:19.680 Yeah, the interesting thing is when he writes this letter back to his friend that requested um you know this this resource, is he talks about it being shameful to him. 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:20.240 Yeah. 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:25.680 And that he's disclosing his deepest, darkest thoughts and struggles. 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:26.480 Yeah. 00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.079 Um we read it and it's like, wow, this is a really helpful list. 00:19:30.240 --> 00:19:30.480 Yeah. 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:36.720 But that you consider being the one writing it, and he's saying, like, look at look at all that I'm lusting after. 00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:38.079 Like, this is my life, yeah. 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:41.839 Look at like I I'm like known for my fasts. 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:45.839 Look at all I want to do is eat in the midst of a fast. 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:46.480 Yeah. 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:48.880 Like I've renounced the world. 00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:50.319 I love money. 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:50.559 Yeah. 00:19:50.799 --> 00:20:00.240 But these ordinary temptations, these fleeting things that just in in you know, three dozen ways capture my affections. 00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:01.119 Right. 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:08.720 Um and it's I so I think it's it's humbling because then like I I can relate to that. 00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:09.759 Yes. 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:13.759 This it's not this isn't some person that's up on this pedestal. 00:20:14.079 --> 00:20:25.359 This is someone who who's like me and who doesn't really want to share these things, um, but is because he knows the encouragement that it's meant to be. 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:42.319 I I'd say that like the this book uh coming into my life is sort of like um all of the all of the the thoughts and the things that he lays out are just completely relatable. 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:48.400 It's almost one of those shocking things, and I find this to always be the case when you read ancient Christians. 00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:54.160 Uh it's like, oh wow, this is the same. 00:20:54.400 --> 00:20:55.680 This is the same. 00:20:55.839 --> 00:20:56.000 Yeah. 00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:59.680 This could have been written in 2024, published this year. 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:00.160 Yeah. 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:02.799 With the the it not changed a word. 00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:10.319 Um there's another it kind of has been with those like every moment holy type of books. 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:12.559 It's like a different sort of scene. 00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:13.440 Yeah, that's true. 00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:16.720 It's about re- reclaiming these moments for God. 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:26.480 There's a there's a language around this developing now uh as it's sort of re-emerging. 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:43.359 But there is like a that that initial discouragement I think is overcome as you see the uh that okay, these thoughts are just like mine. 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:59.759 And I felt like the but the conviction that came to me that came to me when reading it is like, okay, I'm looking over at a um we're like both in a battle, yeah, and I'm like, man, this battle. 00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:00.880 Battle's rough, man. 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:01.680 This battle's rough. 00:22:01.759 --> 00:22:08.960 This is uh and then I'm looking over at my friend and it's like, oh man, he's fighting. 00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:14.319 I'm just like talking about how rough the battle is, you know, but I don't know if if I'm really fighting. 00:22:14.480 --> 00:22:14.720 Yeah. 00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:21.119 And then look over and it's like if agrees is like this friend that I look next to, and it's like, hey man, you seem to be fighting this. 00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:22.400 I want to fight this. 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:24.160 How do you how are you doing that? 00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:29.920 And then he's just showing plainly, like, I'm taking up the word of God against it. 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:30.240 Yeah. 00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:33.119 In my even in my mind. 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:34.000 Yeah. 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:36.720 And there's a way to do that. 00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:43.839 And I think that our fight against sin can feel so helpless. 00:22:44.400 --> 00:22:53.039 And I think some of that helplessness is we haven't been come alongside and taught, hey, there's some things you can do. 00:22:53.839 --> 00:22:58.319 And all of that doctrine that you've been taught is true and real. 00:22:58.559 --> 00:23:00.880 Your justification is secured in Christ alone. 00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:01.680 Yeah. 00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:10.319 Uh your sanctification will not take place in an instant, but it will take place over the course of your whole life. 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:10.799 Yeah. 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:16.319 Um, so I'm not, you know, the the this battle that we're in is a real problem. 00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:46.480 I'm not here giving you a solution to that problem, or like a pill that makes it go away, or uh um uh but uh but you can fight in the promised victory you can participate in, and there's more peace, more joy, uh more uh love, more self-control, more goodness uh available to you in this, and Christ promises to meet you in this. 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:47.200 Yeah. 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:57.680 What's interesting, I think, about the way that he does this too is he isn't just quoting New Testament scriptures or the gospels. 00:23:58.079 --> 00:24:06.559 He he's basically written down scripture verses from every book in the Bible tied to one of these topics. 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:07.119 Yes. 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:13.920 So for Gluttony, fornication, or anger, he starts at Genesis and he goes through Revelation. 00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:30.400 And one of the reasons he does this is he he essentially tells his his friend who requested this that in the time of battle, it's really hard to think of a verse um to go to to refute the demon. 00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:40.079 Yes, um, and because they're so broad and spread throughout the Bible, you don't necessarily just want to be fumbling through the Bible trying to find things at that point in time. 00:24:40.319 --> 00:24:40.640 Right. 00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:46.559 So he's like, I've compiled these into little books specifically for these situations. 00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:49.839 Yes, which I thought was really encouraging. 00:24:49.920 --> 00:25:02.559 Um and something that we could do as well is like as we're reading the Bible, like we can keep a little notebook of okay, here's here's a verse that helps with discouragement. 00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:17.279 Yes, or here's a verse that helps with doubt, um, or here's a verse, and you know, we all have smartphones that you know Yeah, you can pin an Apple note, pin an Apple note, pull it right up in that moment and or an Android note. 00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:20.960 Yeah, you know, if you're part of the dark side. 00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:30.000 But um Yeah, but you it I think the best the best option for us would be to memorize these. 00:25:30.160 --> 00:25:30.480 Yeah. 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:38.960 Second best option, likely just as good, is just have them ready and available for the situation when the situation arises. 00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:39.759 Yep. 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:45.680 And uh I don't think we should think of it as like, okay, now I won't sin anymore. 00:25:46.079 --> 00:25:49.440 That right on, that's one less thing. 00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:54.319 One day that will be true for all of us in Christ. 00:25:54.799 --> 00:25:56.640 Lord haste the day. 00:25:57.359 --> 00:26:11.200 But for now, while we're in the fight, which is where we are, and we have real enemies, and they're vicious and cruel, and they come to steal, kill, and destroy. 00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:20.799 And our hearts have been aligned to them uh since the fall. 00:26:21.200 --> 00:26:52.400 And we're undoing a lot of uh just uh lying thought patterns and um well in that fight you can uh engage in that fight and join the battle, and you you won't conquer the whole land in each battle, but you can you can begin to to take ground. 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:53.279 Yeah. 00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:59.119 And uh you can pick up the sword and start taking ground. 00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:03.680 So maybe it'd be helpful to go through just some examples that he shows. 00:27:03.839 --> 00:27:04.240 Sure. 00:27:05.119 --> 00:27:18.799 And uh we can talk about how we might uh encourage one another to to go forward in this and to to begin um taking up that sword ourselves. 00:27:19.119 --> 00:27:19.759 Yeah. 00:27:20.559 --> 00:27:28.480 Um so I you you brought one up already in in Gluttony, but I can bring another one of those up. 00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:29.440 Yeah. 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:43.759 So he be this is one that says, against the thought that desires to be filled with food and drink, and supposes that nothing evil from the soul comes from them. 00:27:44.400 --> 00:28:00.400 And he's got this verse from Deuteronomy that says, And Jacob ate and was filled, and the beloved one kicked, and he grew fat and became thick and broad, and he abandoned the God who made him and departed from God his Savior. 00:28:02.400 --> 00:28:08.799 And, you know, I I just thought that was interesting, largely because we live in this culture of excess. 00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:13.519 We can go to the grocery store, buy whatever we want, eat whenever we want. 00:28:13.759 --> 00:28:16.319 Obviously, our country has an obesity problem. 00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:25.599 Um, but here he's he's tying the fact of gluttony gives this illusion that all of our needs are met. 00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:26.720 Outside of God. 00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:27.680 Outside of God. 00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:28.960 We've grown fat. 00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:31.680 Um we forget God. 00:28:31.920 --> 00:28:32.240 Yeah. 00:28:32.559 --> 00:28:36.880 You know, Paul talks in the New Testament about that, like our their gods were their stomachs. 00:28:37.039 --> 00:28:37.519 Yeah. 00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:41.440 Um, and we forget God and we departed from God his savior. 00:28:41.599 --> 00:28:41.839 Yeah. 00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:42.400 Yep. 00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:47.599 Um He's talking about Israel, but that's like that's us what we do. 00:28:47.839 --> 00:28:48.480 Yeah. 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:49.440 Yeah. 00:28:49.839 --> 00:28:56.799 Um and you know, that it directly applies to gluttony, but you could use these some of these verses for other types of things. 00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:58.240 I just I just thought that one was interesting. 00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:08.000 Well, you can think, I mean, I I know I fixate on particular desires and consider like, oh man, if I just like I'll do this on Saturday mornings, for example. 00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:13.039 It's like, man, the house is out of order from a week of who did this? 00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:14.880 Oh, yeah. 00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:15.599 Us. 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:18.960 We're the ones who did this. 00:29:19.200 --> 00:29:44.799 Um and I'll I'll fixate and I'll think, man, if I just get I have to if I had a bigger house and everything was really organized the way that I wanted it to be, and it looked like you know, the like a picture of a garage and a gladiator garage ad, you know, or like if I were organized that way and I or magnolia, you know, exactly. 00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:46.000 Exactly. 00:29:46.240 --> 00:30:00.640 Um shouldn't my life look look like that, or it needs to, it needs to, and I'll fixate on that and I'll I'll become uh frustrated and take that out on my family. 00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:05.839 And last Saturday, I like ruined Saturday by doing that. 00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:11.599 And I became obsessed with our family's socks. 00:30:13.440 --> 00:30:17.839 Because it was like a week of like, why can nobody find any socks? 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:22.000 Why does nobody find find any socks? 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:24.720 Every day, of course, we did find socks, but it was inconvenient. 00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:25.119 Yeah. 00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:39.119 But anyway, I like fixated on this, and uh it was not a good day, and I I was was was cruel to my wife and that fixation, but you can it's like, okay, what am I doing there? 00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:43.440 Well, this is something like you can see how that verse would apply. 00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:56.960 It's like, you know, if I had everything I wanted, um which is actually like this absurd level of order that's fruitless and inhumane. 00:30:57.119 --> 00:30:57.759 Yeah. 00:30:58.319 --> 00:31:06.079 Um, I I'd I I'm actually looking to get in a position where I don't need God. 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:07.759 There's no dependency. 00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:23.599 Uh and what I should have done early, as I notice myself fixating on that sort of thing, uh would yeah, probably call a verse like that to mind. 00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:42.400 And uh you know, like one that comes to mind now, is like, man, I like what if I had thought that morning as I'm envious of these other images, the way that I want my house to feel or look like, or the order that I want. 00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:48.160 If I had thought like the Lord will provide all your needs according to his riches and glory in Christ Jesus. 00:31:49.839 --> 00:31:53.680 Uh really all that I need will be provided. 00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:55.039 I'll I'll have it. 00:31:55.279 --> 00:32:01.039 I don't need to fixate on you know these these areas of want. 00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:05.200 Um but I can I can trust him. 00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:06.720 And I'm not trusting him now. 00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:06.960 Yeah. 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:09.519 I can trust him because he's promised that. 00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:12.400 You know, that's like a place of battle. 00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:22.319 Uh and there could have been a you know, joy, peace on the other side of that for not just me, but even for my whole family. 00:32:22.640 --> 00:32:23.200 Yeah. 00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:43.519 Well, that's a good point too, because the battle, while the battle for our thoughts is in our head, and like the primary responsibility for combating those is us, the effects of who wins that battle has ripple effects to the people around you. 00:32:43.759 --> 00:32:45.200 Yeah, for sure. 00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:52.079 Do you want to do one more on on gluttony and then move to a different topic? 00:32:52.559 --> 00:32:56.160 Um you want to jump to something else. 00:32:58.160 --> 00:33:02.559 Um yeah, the 51 I I thought I found encouraging. 00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:04.640 And then we'll share 53 because it's hilarious. 00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:06.960 So one thing just to note on the numbers. 00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:07.519 Yeah. 00:33:07.759 --> 00:33:11.519 There are 489 verses in this book. 00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:15.440 Yeah, so it's not like you're gonna get the book and memorize it, but it it's a good reference. 00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:16.319 Good reference. 00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:18.559 And I think it's a great exploration. 00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:29.680 I think going through it is sort of changing my mind and the way that I think about approaching my thoughts and scriptures power in the midst of them. 00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:37.920 Uh 51 says, against the soul that grows weary in the affliction that comes upon it from restriction of bread and water. 00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:53.200 And so you can imagine this thought, it's just like you're just weary, worn down from he's talking particularly about fasting here, but you could think of like uh I'm financially squeezed. 00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:56.319 Uh just like these these restrictions. 00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:57.839 Man, at my time. 00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:00.880 I wish there were three more hours in the day. 00:34:01.119 --> 00:34:09.519 Then uh after the kids go down, we wouldn't have to fold laundry and not not be able to do whatever. 00:34:10.800 --> 00:34:19.039 Um Acts 14, 22 is the verse that he says, it is through many afflictions that we must enter the kingdom of God. 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.719 And I think you just feel the reframing immediately. 00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:24.559 You know, what am I doing here? 00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:26.320 This isn't just useless toil. 00:34:26.559 --> 00:34:27.119 Yeah. 00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:34.800 This isn't I should not be surprised by the difficulty of life or the constraints that I experience. 00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:42.320 The pathway to the kingdom of God is through many afflictions, just like Christ did. 00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:44.800 And there's glory on the other side of that. 00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:47.760 That's what what like what I'm in now. 00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:57.519 And so what can spiral into self-pity is cut off by the power of the scripture. 00:34:57.840 --> 00:35:00.559 It is through many afflictions that we must enter the kingdom of God. 00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:02.400 Acts 14 22. 00:35:03.199 --> 00:35:06.800 That's uh I thought that was helpful. 00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:07.360 Yeah. 00:35:07.840 --> 00:35:11.440 It's an encouragement in those moments for sure. 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:14.400 Uh we gotta talk about 53. 00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:14.960 Okay. 00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:21.039 Okay, so 53 is against the thoughts that entice us to be comforted with a little treat of vegetables. 00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:22.400 I just like that. 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:23.360 I like that. 00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:24.960 Vegetables are a treat. 00:35:25.280 --> 00:35:31.039 Against the thoughts that, you know, we're not all monastics faster for days in the desert, nor do you need to be. 00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:37.360 Um but against the thoughts that entice us to be comforted with a little treat of vegetables, Romans 14, 2. 00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:39.360 The weak eat vegetables. 00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:44.239 I love I'm gonna use that so much. 00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:45.599 That is a part of my life now. 00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:47.840 That was the probably the first one in the book I memorized. 00:35:48.159 --> 00:35:49.920 He would have been friends with Ron Swanson. 00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:50.639 Yeah, for sure. 00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:52.000 I'm gonna eat my food. 00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:56.559 The weak eat vegetables. 00:35:56.960 --> 00:35:58.639 Never showing that to my kids. 00:35:58.800 --> 00:35:59.039 Yeah. 00:36:04.960 --> 00:36:08.079 Um let's go on to the second one, fornication. 00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:09.360 Okay, cool. 00:36:09.840 --> 00:36:10.639 Lustful thoughts. 00:36:11.199 --> 00:36:11.519 Sure. 00:36:11.840 --> 00:36:13.840 Um so uh maybe I'll start with this one. 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:22.239