Paw'd Defiance

Generous and Welcoming

April 02, 2019 Season 1 Episode 1
Paw'd Defiance
Generous and Welcoming
Chapters
Paw'd Defiance
Generous and Welcoming
Apr 02, 2019 Season 1 Episode 1
UW Tacoma Assistant Professor Danica Miller and her father, Puyallup Tribe Vice Chairman Bill Sterud.
A discussion about the Indigenous history of the Tacoma area.
Show Notes Transcript

UW Tacoma Assistant Professor Danica Miller and her father, Puyallup Tribe Vice Chairman Bill Sterud come to the studio to talk about the Indigenous history of the Tacoma area. Miller and Sterud provide context to our historical understanding of the area by discussing, among other things, the Medicine Creek Treaty and the Boldt decision. UW Tacoma sits on ancestral Puyallup land. Miller and Sterud talk about the campus' founding and how that revitalized the Downtown area.

Speaker 1:
0:01
I protested against the uh oh the smelter and Ashley's got to see a blower
Speaker 2:
0:07
I was with you. Remember, it's a good day
Speaker 3:
0:16
from U. Dot. Tacoma. This is part defiance.
Speaker 3:
0:25
Welcome to Paul defines where we don't lecture, but we do educate. I'm your host, Maria Chris Austin will. The goal of this show is to provide a broader lens of looking at our community. With this knowledge we call people living in the area and others around the world will find new insights and understandings that will help them better understand their world. During the next few months, you'll hear me talk about all sorts of interesting things including how Jurassic Park inspired a generation of future scientists and Emr. There are blood there meshes stress in teens. Today we're handing over the microphone to U. Dot. Tacoma assistant professor, Danica Miller and her father pull up travel chairman fills to rude. You may know that our campuses on ancestral payola plan and it seems only fitting that we kick off the podcast. We had discussion about the PR and the connection to both you delta coma and the surrounding area. There's hope. You enjoy the show.
Speaker 2:
1:26
Hi, this is Danica stared Miller. I am an assistant professor of American Indian studies at the University of Washington Tacoma. And I'm about to introduce, or I am introducing Bill Sterrad who has the very important distinction of being my dad. And in addition, he's also chairman of the pure lip tribe of Indians. And I done take. Good. Good. Um, so I think that we should just start by talking about the area of Tacoma before settlement. So what are your stories are, what do you know about the area before the settlement came in?
Speaker 1:
2:10
Oh, this is just a beautiful area. And though with the house and you know, some bad industrial, oh, looks at it, but in, in the day, you know, it was beautiful. It's just a, you know, the mountain, the trees, the water, everything was clear, pristine, uh, is really, uh, a, a joyful, uh, a place to be for the natives. They loved their deep water port land where a lot of the resources were developed, fish, clams, oysters, etc.
Speaker 2:
2:53
So how can you talk about sort of the history of, um, you know, I think it's, it's hard to even sort of, when I look at the history of the pure up and, um, and the history of, in terms of colonization, um, it's hard. It's, it's, oh, it's just has always been, not just with the bold decision, but always been a history of fighting for, for our right to, to fish from, from seemingly like day one from the Medicine Creek Treaty. Um, can you, can you speak to that or just what was your growing up in fishing like for you?
Speaker 1:
3:31
Well, in the old, old days, you know, the table was set at a low tide, just went and got your food. So, you know, with the change that took place among the native people here was a catastrophic, you know, suddenly we had village sites, we had a phishing sites, we had the ceremonies we had, uh, just as beautiful society that existed. Uh, and then it came crashing down. When, uh, I don't like to even say his name, but he was the, uh, the guy that worked for the railroad also. Did the surveys for, uh, uh, the u s government who basic way was assigned to put railroads through native land and, and, uh, this established Indian reservations and this established the way of life and took land and placed a native people into reservations, which in my mind, uh, uh, kind of remind me of internment camps as they weren't allowed to leave.
Speaker 1:
4:47
You were, you were put here and that's the way it was the, uh, of the railroad under, I'll say his name, governor Stevens. Uh, uh, I was battling with the city of Seattle over where to put the northern terminus, a railroad and Tacoma and Seattle were the, uh, the sites that were chosen in the meantime during all the surveys to realize that the, uh, uh, commencement bay is one the deep reports around. And with that naturally, uh, international trade became a topic for the eastern millionaires to come out and developed. And so they had to open up the lands. That was quite a period because at that time, uh, and I'll go back to, you know, the 1850s when, you know, the Indian wars took place here. And, uh, all the battles that took place, the, the worst of placed because the pelt people were put over toward point defiance on without, uh, well Wayne Restiveness today and they're given a merit a mile square off to the water off the river.
Speaker 1:
6:13
And we're told to live there no matter of the population, no matter what, uh, no matter if there is fish there, it, it didn't matter. That was where they were going to go. And the natives under a chief less shy and some other people in pure all up and the native people in Yakima, the, you know, went to war and the Puget sound wars lasted, I'll just say 1850 to 1852 where, uh, battles took place. Then the natives, you know, used guerrilla warfare and did a fine showing for themselves. That led to a Steven's coming out to Fox island and that at Fox island, Fox Island Treaty Council that took place, we were given a, uh, a larger reservation, uh, the reservation that should extend from plain Reston and where the old bears, where the, where they had placed us in the bad place, extended it toward to the 18,000 acres more.
Speaker 1:
7:27
So I've always interpreted that, that uh, that included the city of Tacoma and I still believe that, but there is a tragic fire in Olympia that burned all the records. And of course the land people came in and, and started taking over. The natives were, the native people were pretty well, uh, disorganized and didn't know what to do. So they were put on that reservation, which includes fife, Milton pure, all outward northeast Tacoma, uh, in that area. And, uh, when that happened, uh, the people of, and I'm not being negative toward any people with just the way it was, lovingly looked at that pill preservation and needed to be open in the meantime. You know, the fishing was taken place and, and then they did this thing called created the allotment act, which basically divided up the parcel into, uh, individual ownership that, uh, I believe after 10 years they could sell that portion of their property.
Speaker 1:
8:39
They had, I believe the native, a pure ops were given like five, uh, real estate people to help them sell, even though they couldn't speak English. So you can imagine the travesty that took place as far as losing that land, you know, forever. Uh, this land extended to the tide lands of the part Tacoma, uh, and throughout the area. Uh, and it was just havoc, you know, for the native people. And, you know, and at that time, uh, uh, civilizing the PR people was, was an important thing in their minds, I believe, just to steal the land and to steal the culture. Uh, they were sent to boarding schools were a pile launches where a media legal, uh, so the boarding school for the native community was a terrible, terrible disaster. Uh, it's separated family. It's separated, uh, relatives that it messed up the entire social social structure of the PR people when that took place, as they would be sent out to schools and Shamal hour or wherever, to top it off the, created this law that he can no longer speak a the Sushi and in the home and if he were caught, the kids who were being taken away.
Speaker 1:
10:20
And so that was a very strong incentive to not speak that language and have to learn how to speak English because kids were just taken away. And in talking to, uh, uh, my grandmother and talking about language, he remembers the stories of where it, they made the decision of not speaking the language and that's what happened. It was to keep the family structure intact. And of course, that was a major victory for the non Indian, by forcing natives not to speak their language, to go to their Pollock's, not to do anything native. You were, uh, being civilized, I guess is the word.
Speaker 4:
11:29
Hey, this is Danica and I wanted to take a minute to talk about a few of the important policy and laws that affected the Pos. Specifically though a lot of this is applicable to many coasts, Taylor's nations and even indigenous nations across the now United States. So in 1854 governor Stevens and his treaty team met with Puyallup, Nisqualy, squaxin island and many other tribal communities that have now been sort of integrated into other tribal communities in order to sign the Medicine Creek Treaty, which is the treaty that outlines the reservations for squaxin island pure all up and the Nisqualy about 30 years later, we have the Dawes Act of 1887 also known as the General Allotment Act. And for anybody who's familiar with the history of federal Indian policy, there's a lot of very detrimental laws and policies aimed at undermining and destroying indigenous peoples and our sovereignties. However, the Dawes Act of 1887 was by far the most detrimental both in terms of land loss and genocide.
Speaker 4:
12:37
The Dawes Act took communally owned indigenous reservation land and cut it into individually owned allotments in order to quote unquote Americanized indigenous peoples into an American mindset of individual ownership to commodify the land, to exploit the resources of the land. And that most basic way we were supposed to turn into farmers. However, what ended up happening is that because the land was cut up into small, small allotments, it was much, much easier to sell. And most of these sales were done either under duress or which is outright theft, which is what I would say it happened to most of the polyp allotments. We do look at the title transfers. There's just so many titles that were sold to, you know, the, the wives of the railroad owners and these sort of things. It's very, very, it's like I said, outright theft. And under the Dawes Act, indigenous nations, when it ended in 1934 had lost more than two thirds of their land base.
Speaker 4:
13:41
And what was leftover was mostly desert. So this is something that was detrimental to all indigenous nations and the now us. And the last thing I want to talk about is the bolt decision. So the Puyallup Nisqualli and many other indigenous peoples have the lower [inaudible] had been fighting for their fishing rights really since since colonization began, but their fight and their resistance, it really began in earnest in about the 1950s as fish runs, it started to become severely depleted due to the large industrial canneries that we're located throughout the Washington state coast. And what makes no sense at all. The local coast sailors, fishermen were blamed for the lack of fish runs, not the industrial canneries and local police and game wardens often violently forced Indian fishermen to stop fishing in response, a resistance movement. Really, we're in the indigenous fishermen. We're working and purposely fishing in ways that would bring media attention to what were their treaty rights that were being consistently violated by Washington state.
Speaker 4:
14:51
You know, feel like I'm doing no, I'm doing a disservice to this sort of amazing and beautiful and very long resistance movement by our local Indian fishermen. However, to fast forward, this was really a gathering steam within the 1960s and there's a lot of famous photos as the lower [inaudible] really began to work with the media to sort of promote their cause. And by 1970 we have a tent encampment along the [inaudible] river. One of the few pieces of land that had been unseated to the u s government. There was still impure all of hands and they were continuing to fight for their fishing rights as well as you know, making a stand that, that we are here and we can fish. On September 9th, 1970 local police and local game wardens attacked the fishing establishment and arrested over, it was over 80 men, women and children. One was this young as nine years old, four again for fishing, which is explicit, Lee granted within our treaty rights, not to mention within our our ancestral sovereignty in response to the u s government filed against Washington state and Usb Washington in order to have the coast Salish fishing rights sort of figured out finally, and this is what's known as the bolt decision, which in 1974 judge Boldt, the very conservative judge Boldt much to the astonishment I think of pretty much everyone granted that according to the words of the Medicine Creek Treaty that all fish, when it says in common with that meant that 50% of the allowable catch it goes to local indigenous nations, which is wonderful and true again, but usually we're used to to, to the opposite, you know, happening in terms of the law and this worked absolutely in our favor.
Speaker 4:
16:41
Then our ancestral traditions and again, within our rights and in response as my dad says, we have some of the worst racist backlash against indigenous fishermen and the federal government would have to intercede a couple of years later in order to force Washington state to follow judge bolts. Really. Thank you.
Speaker 2:
17:04
I think, you know, um, uh, when I was writing my dissertation, one of the chapters is on, um, is on, uh, uh, American Indian boarding schools. And, um, you know, like I grew up in this highly political family on unseated purely planned. You know, everything that we talked about at the dinner table growing up was always pure, all up history. And still that research that I did during, um, during the, uh, on, on American Indian boarding schools, it broke me. I couldn't, I could barely, uh, you know, I would just get into bed with my kids at night. You know, that was the, uh, the cruelty of the United States government in implementing that policy, um, is a astounding, and it's, it's disgusting. And it's, um, and I, and it's a shame that I think the United States government has never even acknowledged much less even done anything to, um, to, to rectify.
Speaker 1:
18:15
I think it was a way of getting at the land and keep getting away at the deep water port asks us to create the shipping terminals. And that was the early plans was to take that away. And one way or the doing that was my taken away the language.
Speaker 2:
18:36
Yeah. I can't, um, uh, you know, one thing I was thinking a lot about during a canoe journey assess last summer, um, and that, that first day with the landing was one of the most powerful experiences I've, um, I've, I've had. And it was so, it was just so pure all up centered in a way that I feel that pow, pow wows aren't always right. This seemed to be very much what our ancestors did. And it was so amazing to have different, you know, all these sovereign nations recognize the sovereignty of the polyp in the Pol to recognize their sovereignty. Um, that whole, you know, those hours of the landing, it was, it was beautiful, but it reminds me of what you were just saying about how the, the obsession of the United States with gaining access to what is now the port of Tacoma and that, um, that was always, you know, even so pre pre colonization, like that was a, you know, the pure, all of our, our port that was, uh, that was, uh, uh, a terminus then, right.
Speaker 2:
19:43
It was an indigenous term is that was where everybody, everybody came through. Everybody stopped. Like you said, when the tide was out, you gathered up the, the, the, the shellfish, um, and got out some smoked salmon and everything was good and, and, and easy kinda. Um, it was a nice life, but it was also, you know, even then it was, uh, it was a major, uh, it was always a ma. Tacoma was always what does now to comment, but that was a major port always right. It, it was just an indigenous port before then. And I think it really speaks to the fact that, um, that they're the ones that we had a way of having a major, you know, indigenous port where all this trade took place, where all these different indigenous nations would come in and you know, trade and, and eat. And it wasn't an intermediary, right. But also it was also really respectful of the land and the water that was there.
Speaker 1:
20:46
People wanted open up those lands for business opportunities. The part people, you know, I believe the cook and High Guggenheims are actually a part of, uh, the smelter that used to be over there that spewed out a lead, cadmium zinc, uh, for a hundred years. For a hundred years. It was, I protested against the, uh, oh, the smelter and Ashley's got to see a blower.
Speaker 5:
21:16
I was with you remember, it's a good day out there in the, in the vote, the little boat. It's really cool. What should come down.
Speaker 1:
21:32
So we've had to take a very adverse position to this economy around here as far as using pollution to drive this area into some sort of strange economic development. Well, it's still there. There's still polluted areas there. And uh, it's just going to take quarter battles. I'm just going to take people understanding that water is life Yup. And air his life. Uh, so that has to be, uh, uh, put into the minds for the future generations, you know, will be battling and battling and battling. But there seems to be an, uh, an awakening taking place by, uh, people on how important clean water is, clean areas. And I believe down the road there will be some massive cleanups and nothing could make me happier than forcing them to,
Speaker 2:
22:44
I mean, I think, uh, you know, uh, I think you're exactly right. The, you know, when we talk about, you know, when you say like water is life and, um, you know, killing off all the, the salmon and the shellfish, you know, that's the same and I think are a metaphor for the pure all but a lot of ways. But also it's pretty literal too. Like if you're killing salmon, you're actually, then you're also killing people, right? Not just the pure, all of all of us, right? Like, this isn't to say that we are, um, you know, that this is, it's not, this is, this isn't bad for everybody. It's not just bad for the fish. It's not bad for the shellfish that, that we're all so interconnected that this is, um, this is just a sign. Right. And, um, and it's, you know, and like you said, like this quote unquote, um, you know, economic progress that is on the back of pollution is ridiculous cause it's not progress if it's killing a bunch of and a bunch of, and a bunch of animals, you know, it's not like everybody gets rich off these really pollutant activities.
Speaker 2:
23:52
It's like two people are, are, are doing great. It's like, but the rest of us who are living with it or it's, you know, it's a strain, all sorts of things. And, um, I agree. It seems like there seems to be an awakening, uh, of late, but I, um, um, but I certainly credit the pure all of tribe and they're fighting for the last, always, I guess. Um, with, uh, bringing that awakening about like, I remember when those were controversial ideas that you would talk about when I was, you know, a kid and you know, people were like, well, but we have to have development. And it's like, well, we don't have to have like there's other ways to develop without it ruining our resources. Right. And that was too much of a stretch for some people apparently.
Speaker 1:
24:41
I grew up in a time when to Tacoma was called the, it was called the aroma of Tacoma. Yeah. It was about a Roma. Ah, high grades just had this big pond that they would just send out to all the waste from whatever meat. They were straight into this pond. And then you throw in a St Regis at the time and, and the stuff they're putting in the air and he could really, really upset your stomach destroying by on the freeway. And I've talked to some people who say they can still smell it or it's some sort of smell they can't get out of their minds. It was bad. But the tragedy of the thing is economic development just here to stay, but you got to create standards. You've got to create laws that make them develop in a good way, in a good way, and you've got to monitor that.
Speaker 1:
25:49
I believe that this is just an extension of the San Juans. It's on what the San Juan Islands. You go up there and see how beautiful it is and you just keep coming down down this area. It's still the San Juan and should have been maintained that way and in fact it should have been protected more because those, the reservation, it's, it's got the, the opportunity to be developed in a clean way, but it's going to take muscle. It's going to take a different way of thinking. And it could be, it could be a really beautiful area. And I say that to people that it's beautiful here. It just needs to be cleaned up, but it's going to cost billions of dollars. Where's that money gonna come from? Well, it's got to come from somewhere, but in the meantime, start today. Start developing your projects in a good way that doesn't harm the fish, so it doesn't harm the, that doesn't dirty the water.
Speaker 1:
26:46
And I, I think it's a slow thing that, uh, is going to have to happen to make this a livable tourist city. And it could be, and it could be one thing that we've got at the tribe as these biologists who worked for us for like, I've been on council for, you know, 38 years. Who knows how long I had been. I quit counting, but, uh, they've been with me. It's just not the bay, it's just the watershed. But it starts up in, uh, up on our great mountain and comes down and they know every inch of it, how it can be destroyed, how it can be helped. They're the watchdogs and then they get a hold of us when things are going haywire in their world and we do our best to fix it. So we got some watch dogs watching this entire water area.
Speaker 1:
27:39
They know from the, from the, uh, from the mountain to the bay and now, and you know, the salmon don't stop at the bay if they can survive as fingerlings down that river through a polluted bay heading up north, there's the Duwamish people, there's the, uh, going up and there's more pollutants and they're going up and they're going up and they're getting bigger and, and they're also having a hard time surviving. And that's before they get to the ocean and the ocean, you know, they, they have dead zones. And so these fish are going right into these dead zones. So it's just not in the bay. It's just not by the mountain. It's the whole ecosystem that's being hurt in a really bad way. And people have to take notice and people have to do something. We put people on the moon, we get the fancy cars, we can do anything we want with our money. Put it into the environment. Time's running out. Yeah.
Speaker 4:
28:43
Easily. My Dad and I are much more
Speaker 5:
28:46
jokey than we, we make jugs. How dumb. They can be tough, but there's money being made. There's money being made.
Speaker 4:
29:05
Hi, this is Donna k again and I'm just going to talk about a few things. First of all, I'm going to talk about Lushootseed, which is the indigenous language of this area of the PR people, but it was actually spoken all the way down in a squali and up to Skagit and pretty much over to the mountains. Lushootseed was really spoken until about the 1940s although genocide, displacement and boarding schools had really drastically reduced the numbers of Lushootseed speakers. It was really about the 1940s that the u s government started threatening and families with taking away their children if they continued to speak Lushootseed in their home. So my grandmother, her native language was Lushootseed. My father grew up learning only a few curse words in Lushootseed, so it was eradicated almost completely within my generation. Since then we have the Pol tribal language department and a few other really cool different tribal communities I've worked in earnest, revitalized. So she seed. And at this point I think we have about 90 native fluent speakers, fluent level of native speakers. And it's just growing every day. And it's a beautiful thing to be part of. And to witness.
Speaker 4:
30:20
So to, to uh, just bring it a little bit towards, uh, the founding of u Dub t, um, and just sort of Tacoma today I think. Uh, I remember, I guess I was in high school maybe when when you'd have t was, was when they were talking about putting in Youtube, you know, Youtube branch in Tacoma. And I remember thinking, you know what, why would they do that? Right. Um, so can you, uh, can you describe, um, cause you were, you were there for the founding of u Dub t as well as sort of what, what that whole pack of a seamless, like back in the back in the founding of Udab t
Speaker 1:
31:02
number one, I went to University of Washington. That's right. In sixth grade. I watched him play the Rose Ball. So I've always been a proud husky and, and watched how that educational process can make people better and can teach people to be better people. Uh, and at the time there are some great, okay. Visionaries all call them a norm. Dicks. The governor, the business community, uh, jumped into this, this idea cause to Coleman needed help. That was not a good area. That was not a good area where the University of Washington Tacoma was. And uh, to see it being talked of as a, as a university site was kind of like, ah, how are they going to do this? But I'm thinking of taking down these old buildings and, and, and the UWT has been really good about saving the old buildings that can be saved.
Speaker 1:
32:04
So it keeps a part of that history going. I remember, uh, driving with you and you are back from school and the, uh, Miss Ronnie goes by and I, in my mind I'm thinking, good God with everything that's happening in this town as far as pollutants. [inaudible] they got the trolley system, this going, and you said this is the best thing that ever happened to Tacoma. And you were right. It created that thought. It created this other momentum as far as, well, maybe it's just not the of Tacoma that can attract people. Maybe there's good things too. And so the visionaries, I'll call him that. So we're going to put a campus here. And then I thought, well, that's a long shot. But instead they worked together and uh, not only, uh, worked together on the Uwt, but the CEO foss water way, that development, he gets a ride out of a, a tourist book.
Speaker 1:
33:11
And so there's the UWT starting out and who's going to go and, and where is it going to be? Well, and I gave the, when I was with the groundbreaking of the Uwt, there were over railroad tracks. The buildings were in disarray, disrepair. And I thought, they've got a long ways to go. But somebody planted a seed and it grew and it grew and it's still growing. So it's what city, what area does not want a good college to be a part of it, to create that, that atmosphere for education, for, uh, making your community better, making your community stronger. And then, you know, and I, I like to, uh, be a part of it in my own small ways, just to remind him that this was the PR preservation you're talking about, that you're a learning on, that you're being taught on and that, uh, uh, it can only grow and can only get better. And it wasn't these buildings that were repairing trains or whatever they were doing down there, uh, it was a good claim, uh, way of developing Tacoma and Tacoma kind of changed and is changing with the, uh, with the arrival of the school and in a really good way, in a really good educations gotta be one of the hallmarks of creating good people and good societies and good families.
Speaker 2:
34:57
Yeah, I look at, um, you know, is I really, I mean, I, I absolutely a hundred percent credit, both u dub t and the pure tribe for the, for that, for everything that has happened, uh, in, in, uh, in comment,
Speaker 1:
35:14
certainly downtown Tacoma. And, you know, the tribe takes a lot of heat. There are obstructionists their, you know, they don't care about jobs. And of course we care about jobs. We just don't want jobs that kill people. They breathe bad stuff that pollute the environment and pollute the people that are working in those places. And that's without the, uh, starting jumpstarting this thing along with an oncologist, you know, that waterway I just mentioned, uh, uh, change started to take place and uh, it's not going to go backwards. It will just go better and better. I'm totally optimistic about that. That's good.
Speaker 5:
35:59
Really good to me. No kidding. It's nice to be optimistic about one thing I've always been a dreamer can get better. It is better. It is. Yep.
Speaker 1:
36:12
No. Uwt what would those buildings be? What would it look like? It would just be this terrible looking part of industrial Tacoma. And it's gone know the Theo foss was a mess and it's gone. And then it's beautiful and they got to work that way in all the waterways and do it in a good way as far as the cleanup. And, and did this one have to be heavy development? You know, the, uh, like I said, this is a tourist area. It's beautiful and should be developed that way. And the powers that be, have to understand that, that the people that are working down there also have families. So maybe their families wanting to go down. I believe that, uh, that can be parks down there in the middle of the port of Tacoma. I believe a all that can be cleaned up. It's going to take money and it's going to take determination and it's going to take hard work by the powers that be, and I'm talking about the city of Tacoma. I'm talking about the port of Tacoma. I'm talking about the state of Washington. I'm talking about five, I'm talking about Milton and I'm talking about Pill Por Lo and, and uh, they should all be a part of a new way of thinking.
Speaker 2:
37:29
Hmm. And I think that we're, uh, well, I, I hope, I seems to me, and I know I come from a pretty sort of live in a bubble, but I do think that, you know, we're headed there.
Speaker 1:
37:42
Thank you. I believe we are, and it's going to take strong determination and will put out by the governments, by the people, uh, and, and move in that direction. It's, it's, it's a lot stronger now than I've seen it in my life and I want to keep it that way and I'll do what I have to.
Speaker 2:
38:07
So I asked my students today as I told her earlier, um, what sort of questions that they would like to ask and um, and they had all sorts of, they're so great. It's an intro to indigenous studies class and, um, you know, and for a lot of them, they're deeply interested in, uh, the local indigenous history. Um, but they don't know very much. And, um, and then the class, you know, just really teaches them and they do spend probably the first six weeks with, they're just eyes wide open, not, but now they're much better. Um, and so a lot of the questions, you know, they had that they had is, um, you know, they're deeply interested in making sure that, um, that you know, that the PR, the sharp history and pure all sovereignty is, um, is both recognized and also like taught in the elementary schools and the local, um, um, public schools, high schools. Uh, like how do you, how do you think that we should go about that?
Speaker 1:
39:09
Well, education is the key. They have to know that there's a reservation here and they have to understand why and they have to understand that there are reservations going to be cleaned or aren't going to be any, uh, uh, water being soiled and dirty then. And, uh, so it's going to take people to learn not just about the importance of clean air and clean water, but the importance of those is a tribe right in the middle of this that uh, basically had everything taken from them. Uh, and there isn't much more than a cemetery. There was one court case by Judge Godwin who rolled the reservation doesn't exist, which got overturned at the ninth circuit. Uh, during that time, the state of Washington, well if they don't have a reservation they can't fish. So they took the fishing of way as well for the couple of years is that wound its way through the court.
Speaker 1:
40:14
We weren't even allowed to go down to the river and fish. So, uh, as you look at that and where we've come in this community has come, has been an ice age slow, but at the same time it's moving in the right direction and the pl people are getting themselves back on their feet. And one of the key ways is through education and our people are getting it. It's imperative that the non Indian community get it as well. To understand just what this is all about. It just, it's real and this is where it is. And let's work together to make this a community for everybody. Uh, not just the industrialists, but the people that live here. And for the natives that live here, this is, we aren't going anywhere. We haven't gotten anywhere. We fight a war. Uh, we also, you know, we can kind of call it the fish wars where people were jailed and boats were destroyed and gear was taken and, and uh, but it didn't slow down our people as far as for that dream.
Speaker 1:
41:25
Unfortunately. Now as we look at the fish returns, which are drastically low, uh, we look at the, uh, shellfish industry. Where's it going? Uh, so a lot of those key places in our culture are being decimated and like the area out in the ocean, they don't even know what it is. They just go out there and die. So the object is, and I think we have three or four fish hatcheries. Uh, we have our guard dogs that are watching every development, watching anything had go wrong within our drainage area, uh, to make sure that we can do what we can to stop that. And I think that our voice has been loud and Claire and will continue to be loud and clear. It isn't going to stop. We're just going to be out there at the forefront fighting for our environment because as part of our culture, as part of our treaty, it's part of the future. It's all there.
Speaker 2:
42:34
Well, just so you just gestured towards, um, you know, talking about, well, both like the treaty wars and the fish wars, which I think, you know, you mentioned the treaty wears I think is a thing when I teach my students about the treaty wars, you know, they're like, what, what is that? Right? When was this? Right. Um, and then also you were talking about the fish wars. Um, but I think, uh, one of the things that you've really taught me is, um, the sort of unbelievable history and resistance, uh, that were the fish wars, but also once we have the bolt decision that actually, um, the fish wars just really had to even become a, the resist. The PR even had to do him more after the Boldt decision because the resistance against the bolt decision, people were so angry that, uh, that the, the Puyallup and, um, had won the right to fish, that it became even even worse.
Speaker 1:
43:33
That's what I hear was this court decision that gave us, well, we had never lost and we'll never lose this opportunity to, uh, catch half the fish. And it actually says the sound in the river. So here was that decision. The judge both decision whether you've bought the state of Washington, refuse to enforce it. So what do you do then? So the, you have the big percenters out there fishing and catching the fish in violation of this law. And so it really wasn't taken seriously to the US. Supreme Court said, yeah, they have that right implemented. In fact, uh, I believe one of the judges, uh, called it, uh, that no, uh, no court decision has ignored like this, uh, except the board of education in the Brown decision, uh, that, uh, uh, they couldn't believe it, that the US Supreme Court left the state of Washington wasn't enforcing a lower district court order. So even with the law on our side, it was being ignored by the entire state of Washington. So I had during that time, you know, it was, it was a, it was a mess. It was a mess for a racism and gave an opportunity to, to, uh,
Speaker 1:
45:10
well, it's a put down native people protecting their treaty. Right. And, uh, so that in the meantime, fishing never stopped on the river. You know, I always had salmon to eat, you know, and it was all done by secrecy, but everybody, we knew it was okay and it was proven out to be okay. So we're of the tissue room's gone. Well, there's, they're in bad shape right now. The water is in bad shape. The environments in bad shape and all that's a necessary ingredient to have healthy stocks returning to their, uh, fishing areas and it's not happening. So there's a long ways to go just in that alone, in managing our fishery.
Speaker 2:
46:02
Well that, as you know, um, I've, uh, I'm working very closely with the up language department, uh, big props to, um, my cousin and your niece, amber stared, who does amazing work with, uh, helping revitalize a Lushootseed. And of course, as Zeke, uh, saw here, um, and, uh, so, um, you know, the, we have, um, the Lushootseed language institute every summer at Udab t which, um, uh, purely tribal council, if I remember correctly, I asked the pure language department to have me put together and I was like, Oh, you know, I don't really, I don't really know what I'm doing, but I'm super excited to be part of it. And I'm so can you speak to sort of the, that, that revitalization of Lushootseed.
Speaker 1:
46:55
It's, it's been amazing. You know, you go back to when you lost your kids per speaking Lushootseed think about that, you know, the horror of that. Uh, and then to see it coming back here. And I don't know what year this is anymore cause I've been around for so long, uh, has done nothing but my heart proud. It's fun. And to see the people were counting, it's a hard language. Language is like, I grew up in a family that would speak a few words every so often they'd slip out. And, uh, and I remember those days that was fun. Uh, you know, uncle Don Matheson and, and uh, you know, a little bit, the people over all around, uh, are watching this and thinking about the same thing. And I think it's a, Oh, it's just so, it's, it's just not us. The university saw some value to it as well.
Speaker 1:
47:59
It made it a part of it. And so like, the change is coming from the younger generation as far as how they're viewing the world and how they want the world to be. And, uh, it's an important voice, an important voice that has to be heard and will be heard because not too long. It'll be them making these decisions on how they want to be, how they want to live, and where they want to live. You know, this is no longer the aroma of Tacoma. You know, it's a vibrant community that needs some help environmentally. And I see all of that down the road.
Speaker 2:
48:36
And, uh, um, yeah, I mean, I, I remember just growing up and you know, you and, uh, you and rube, I say in Hoyt to Tyler
Speaker 1:
48:51
and that was big rube, right? Senior that, uh, was one of the heroes and the fishing rights struggle and, and he spoke a lot of pure low, uh, and believed in the law of the old ways. I was lucky, man, to be as good friend for
Speaker 2:
49:07
all my life. You know, I look at whenever I'm, you know, what I'm doing archival work and stuff and going through the papers. Um, uh, you know, uh, good rube comes up a lot. Sort of like the quiet voice in the corner. Right? Which, and that's the, the man that I remember for sure, but never, never taking a center stage. You know, he was always, he was a gentleman for sure. Total gentlemen and Super Intelligent. Yeah. And a hard worker. Uh, miss him. Yeah. Yeah. I was sad. A questions for him. Now that I'm getting older.
Speaker 1:
49:46
I remember, uh, we were out in the river fishing and he brought in a bullhead head, which is a small little, I think they call him sculpins is only five inches long. And a, he saw we're going to have a good day and our go ahead or we call them. And then I thought, okay, he says that's my to madness. That's my power. And I am not kidding. And she's sitting in the boat with me and he's taking the fish out and he let it go. Uh, turned his face into a look like that sculpin bad happened. I saw it. It was very cool. And that was part of the old ways. Yeah. And we did really well that day. We were high vote that happened.
Speaker 2:
50:33
Wow. That's, that's amazing. Um, and then the, so the final question is, um, where like what are some cool things a pol do doing these days? If you can narrow it down to like, okay,
Speaker 1:
50:47
they all said, you know, uh, to protect the fishery, to, uh, create a good healthcare system, to create a good school system to uh, um, move forward in, in this community takes money. It's economic development on our own good clean economic development. And you know, we've, we've done well in gaming. Uh, we, uh, are individuals that have smoke shops, you know, a do well. Uh, and you know, we have opportunities down the part that we haven't dwelled into yet though. We also have, you know, a $500 billion casino that's going up on, on I five in Portland Avenue there. That'll increase hopefully our revenues, but also maybe make people saying, oh, maybe Tacoma is a tourist area. Maybe we should change how we look at this town, this city, this region. It's beautiful and can be even more beautiful. But it's all necessary enough to pay for education costs.
Speaker 1:
51:56
Our cancer clinic that, uh, uh, anybody can go to, uh, or cannabis stores, you know, and, and I've always been a proponent of that, but I see it as a medicine or medicines can be a cure all. And unfortunately the US government has stymied research into that medicine. And so we're getting kind of a late start in it, but it's there now and operating now an end. Uh, there's revenue being made for that, but I think it's a great medicine. Um, you know, and we have the other casino down there and fife. Uh, so we're just kinda doing low. We can, uh, to provide a good life for our people,
Speaker 2:
52:43
you know. Um, I'll just, uh, finish off by saying that, uh, again, uh, you know, I grew up with all of it, all of these stories from, from, from you and my elders and my aunties and cousins. And, um, and I just, it's, it's, it's, I'm always so grateful and always so astounded by just like what you said, that the city of Tacoma, Washington state in the United States government did everything that they could to take us down to two D to a recess. And, um, and everything that we do, everything that I see the tribe doing today is such a, it's such a, uh, uh, it just speaks to how powerful our people have been and were unable to be erased. And it's, it's astounding. And I'm consistently just overwhelmed and grateful
Speaker 6:
53:42
for it.
Speaker 3:
53:50
Thank you to our guests and a big thing. Get to our senior lecturer, Nicole Blair for letting us play your music on the show. Thank you to moon, y'all recording studio. And thank you for joining us today.
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