Episode 449, The Andrew Parker Show - Dean Phillips and Andrew discuss: Moral Decay, Political Courage, and How to Rebuild American Leadership

In this timely and wide-ranging conversation, Andrew Parker is joined by former Congressman and presidential candidate Dean Phillips to examine the moral, political, and institutional challenges facing the United States as 2026 begins.

Andrew and Dean begin with the global rise of antisemitism and its role as a warning sign of moral decay throughout history. They discuss how antisemitism, extremism, and ideological intolerance have re-entered public discourse—and why leaders across the political spectrum have failed to confront it with clarity and resolve.

The conversation expands to immigration, radical ideologies, isolationism, and America’s responsibility to defend democratic values at home while supporting stability abroad. Dean reflects on his decision to challenge an incumbent president from his own party, the personal and political cost of breaking party orthodoxy, and why America’s two major political parties no longer function in the public interest.

Together, Andrew and Dean make a compelling case for political competition, primary election participation, campaign finance reform, and renewed civic engagement as essential steps to rebuilding American leadership.

The episode concludes with a candid assessment of Minnesota—once a national model for good governance—and what must change if the state is to reclaim its reputation for integrity, opportunity, and effective leadership.

Transcript

Episode 449, The Andrew Parker Show with special guest Dean Phillips

Andrew Parker (00:02)
Welcome to another episode of the Andrew Parker show. Thank you very much for joining us as you know, each episode we talk politics, Israel and the law. And this is our first episode of 2026. And frankly, it's quite nice to exit 2025. Enough already. Oh my God.

But this, we start off the year with a bang. We are honored to have with us on the show, candidate for President of the United States, congressman for six years from the great state. Well, it once was called the great state of Minnesota. We're gonna talk a little bit about Minnesota and the fact that I grew up.

⁓ In Minnesota and my guest today grew up in Minnesota and we have very fond memories of Minnesota very fond one of the great states of the Union much to be proud of We're we're starting to tear that down a little bit, but we will We'll talk about that today on the show. We're going to talk about the moral decay around the world and how anti-semitism plays such

Critical role in human morality And then we're gonna talk about the Democratic and Republican parties Two parties. I know you recognize their names been around a long time quite have hefty power bases where are they headed and How might we help how might we get us back maybe on the right track?

And I think that we're just the ones to do it as I'm joined today by a good friend and ⁓ really a brilliant policy thinker. And I've taught that for a long time. We don't agree on everything, certainly, and a number of things we don't.

We do agree on a lot and the fundamentals we do agree at. We're Americans, we believe in the fundamental foundational values of this country. So the disagreements can swirl about. But my good friend Dean Phillips joins us on the Andrew Parker show and ⁓ you thought that the mayor of New York

Queen this how to get affordable again, we got to find affordable. No, no, Dean Phillips make America affordable again. This was he figured he knew what the issue was going to be. And this isn't the first time he is ahead of the curve on most things, which is, again, one of the reasons that I love talking with him on the show and over all the guests that I have had, he is right up there.

near the top. Dean, thank you for joining us again on the Andrew Parker Show.

Dean (03:14)
Great to be with you, Andrew. Great to be with you. And by the way, Make America Affordable Again is ma. I thought it was, it had a great ring to it. not surprisingly, when I put that on my campaign bus, I took so much heat from Democrats because it sounded too much like, you Make America Great Again, God forbid. Just a little antidote, know, antidote.

Andrew Parker (03:21)
Yeah, that's right!

you

Sure. Yeah. No,

I thought it was ⁓ I thought it was brilliant. It was a bit of a jab and it identified the issue. But but let's let's not start there. I I actually want to start at one of the most fundamental places to chat today on the show. And that is.

the worldwide moral decay that we see that you can't stick your head in the sand on anymore. And it's scary, it's dangerous, ⁓ and we can talk about it in the framework of antisemitism. Because oftentimes, world moral decay starts with the acceptance of antisemitism, of Jew hatred,

in the milieu, in the lexicon of the day, in the narrative. And frankly, it is alarming post October 7th how it has been okay to be openly anti-Semitic.

Dean (04:49)
Is that you're posing a question or you want reflection? I'll tell you, Andrew, I pause because I'm shocked and dismayed that we're even talking about it. And you and I are part of a generation of Americans, Jewish Americans, who may have been one of the first generations that grew up in a country that had, into which we had assimilated, into which we had made investments. And the reward was acceptance and integration.

Andrew Parker (04:50)
Yeah, I want your comment.

Yeah.

And your father, your Jewish father fought for this country and the fundamental values he gave his life for this country.

Dean (05:19)
I'm not going to speak.

as I know you and I and so many others would do right now, but I'm reflecting more on human history and, you hatred has been part and parcel to the human condition since the first humans walked this earth. I think we're living in such an unusual time of connection that hatred is so easily disseminated. It doesn't necessarily now start with those with the biggest physical platforms. It starts with those who have social platforms, ⁓ not people who have demonstrated capacity

competency leadership. Everybody is a reporter. Everybody is a pundit. And I'm afraid the speed with which hatred can spread. And by the way, you know, it's not just anti-Semitism. It's anti-everybody immigrants, people of color, know, our country, every country in the world right now. And I think anti-Semitism is sadly in that bucket. And the worst, though, is that I'm not seeing leaders who both acknowledge that...

that challenge, and are rising to the occasion. And that means both in our country and abroad, Andrew. And I'm dismayed. It cannot be normalized. And I'm waiting for people on the right, left, center every spectrum of American politics around the world.

to make the case that it's unacceptable. And I would argue, and I think you would agree, neither party is immune to anti-Semitic elements. When I was growing up, it was the far right that concerned me the most. Now it's both, and they haven't left. And now there's a resurgence, as we well know, is the MAGA movement.

Andrew Parker (06:54)
No question.

And they haven't left, by the way. They are still here.

Dean (07:07)
going to be defined now by anti-Israel sentiment, which to many, of course, is anti-Semitism. Time will tell. But the far left, the far right are both culpable. And we have an obligation. And perhaps this is an opportunity. I know 2025 was a dismal year in so many ways, Andrew. But with the turning of the new year, there's always that opportunity for some reconciliation. And the opportunity to push reasonable, common sense Americans on both sides of the political aisle

to recognize what's at stake here. So I remain an optimist. I am hopeful that there will be peace in the Middle East. I'm hopeful that Gaza will be rebuilt and be a little bit of a, as Reagan would have said, the shining tower on the hill, right? The beacon, if you will, for the entire Middle East. And the sad truth is sometimes it takes utter destruction to rebuild. I hope that happens there. And I think with that, at least, as we talk about anti-Semitism, there may be well,

a turning of a page where there can be peace, prosperity, and a recognition that we're in this together, because we surely will drown together if we don't stick together.

Andrew Parker (08:14)
Well, I want to, for maybe fear of putting salt in a wound, a wound of discussion that occurs across this country, and that is about immigration. That is about our fundamental values and that certain people do not share.

our fundamental values. Their values are far different than ours. And you could go down the list. And when they spread across through immigration, ⁓ Europe, and spread across through immigration, invasion is what Trump calls it, ⁓ the United States.

It's something that we can't ignore. The radical Islamist movement in the world, have they brought on, they would say they have, a war of civilizations? Are we ⁓ in a war that we don't wanna be in and that we're acting like we're not in, but we are in it?

Dean (09:31)
Well, if we are, Andrew, I think it's too late. I mean, that's and that's the fact of the matter. Do I believe that there is a concerted, unified effort in the United States of America? No. Do I believe that there are too many that have come to our shores with bad intent? Absolutely. And I have to reflect on our own ancestors. I'm sure I don't know your story, but I imagine ours came around the same time for the same reasons to flee persecution to the one country

that offered the possibility of safety, security, and prosperity if you worked hard. And when they came over, we didn't really have quotas. We had open borders at that time, and as long as you weren't carrying a disease and you didn't have ⁓ a criminal record that could be identified, you were let in. And that's how we operated for a long, long time.

So I have to say what I'm gonna say with the reflection on our own shared past. With all that said, I look at even Minnesota, immigration in Minnesota, we've been a magnet and a home for the persecuted for generations. The Hmong community, particularly in St. Paul, they supported the United States during the Vietnam years. They shared the principles, they shared the values, and I think we see different immigrant groups to varying degrees

come to America because they believe in America and others come here because they wish to change it. And I think therein lies the fundamental issue. This is not unique to a religion or a race or a country, but it is a unique challenge to the United States. And I think we should be thrilled that we remain among the only countries in the world that people want to come to rather than flee. Nobody wants to go to China or Iran.

or Russia, people want to come to America for a reason. But if we don't protect that reason, we will not only lose our standing as it relates to immigration, we will be losing democracy as we know it. And I think this is time for a thoughtful reckoning about immigration in America. Because if we continue down this path of further and further limitation, I'm afraid we be seeing the economic consequences of that, the social consequences of that, and of course, you know,

the America standing in the world. So I'd like to see a thoughtful reassessment and start inviting extraordinary people from around the world who believe in our values, who wish.

to share their time, their treasure, and invest in our future and get back to what America was so wonderful at for so long, which is inviting people who were shunned elsewhere. But we're not seeing that same caliber of people. We're not investing in these people. And I'm afraid ⁓ the Democrats and Republicans right now have no intention, no capacity, and frankly, no competency to litigate what I think is one of the most important policy decisions we will be making in the coming years.

It's troublesome, but it is not too late, is what I believe.

Andrew Parker (12:31)
Well,

Well, do think that ⁓ your comment that protecting ⁓ the fundamental values of this country, the founders of this country came together to create is something worth fighting for, is something worth recognizing and enacting policy that protects it.

When I see ⁓ radical Islamic terror groups ⁓ growing here in this country, ⁓ being very active and having money funneling back and forth between this country and their home base, wherever it might be, and the number of ⁓ Islamist groups, our legion, and we couldn't even, we'd have to spend the rest of the hour to list them all. ⁓ But there are many.

and they are a clear and present danger for the United States. People are going to call me Islamophobic. Fine, call me Islamophobic. You show me when radical Islam has reformed and my arms will be open. This is not about a particular religion. It is about a belief system that is an anathema to the United States and what we stand for in our foundation.

and we can't live together with it. One is going to win and the other is going to lose. And we need to win. So, yeah, you know, and I know you do and, you know, great comments, though. I'm very nervous about whether the United States and our leaders get that. I'm more nervous about European parliaments and whether they get it.

Dean (14:11)
I do agree. do agree.

Andrew Parker (14:30)
They clearly don't they're speaking on the floor of their ⁓ highest legislative body openly in anti-semitic terms. It's it's outrageous. We have a bit

Dean (14:42)
I could say one thing, Andrew, and before I forget, I think it's really important. America had made its intention with varying degrees of success of trying to invest in safety, security, and democracy around the world, certainly in post-war policy, both the right and left. And we're moving away from that right now. And I think the consequences of that are going to be an increase in that unregulated,

mass immigration around the world because people flee where they do not feel safe, where they do not have opportunity. And I think it's incumbent on the United States and the Western world, if not the entire world, to invest in security in other nations so that we are not subject to the same challenges that we are facing right now. Again, does China have an incentive? No, because people are not rushing to get into China.

countries like ours, European countries, the Western Hemisphere for the most part, I think should unify and start making strategic investments to keep people safe, secure, and ensure opportunity in other countries. And by the way, that means Gaza too, and that means the Middle East. And if we can demonstrate...

we can demonstrate the ability to do so, I think that will be a darn good step in preventing the tragedy that we're seeing right now. I think about, it's heartbreaking to see children in small boats that capsize in the ocean and die with their parents simply wanting a chance to succeed, which is most, by the way. I think we have to acknowledge most people that come here do come for the right reasons. But we're not living in an era...

any longer where we can be so lax with those who have bad intent and we are not doing a good job and I think this is a policy that has to start overseas because once it's at our shores it is too late.

Andrew Parker (16:33)
Well, before we move to our next topic, I just want to comment on isolationism and the danger of isolationism. The United States is not intending nor is it desire to take over the world or to have any sort of ⁓ implication of such. However, we want to make this world a free and open place for every person as much as we can.

Dean (16:41)
Yep, exactly.

Andrew Parker (17:03)
And we have such an abundance here for us to close our shores or to close our assistance to others that might be struggling, you know, is wrong. And one other comment about Gaza, plain and simple, that war was brought to the Jewish people in the state of Israel. They didn't want it. They don't want war and have never wanted war. They have proven it and shown it and they've offered

many different proposals for total peace. But coming out of World War II and much more since, and it is not that long ago, the Jewish people are not going to lie down and be massacred. And they never will do that again.

Anti-Semites in this country or in Europe, in the halls of the parliaments or in the halls of Congress, need to know, with the United States or without them, Israel is going to defend itself. The Jews are going to defend themselves. And they are not going to go quietly for the sole reason that they are Jewish.

Dean, I want to turn quickly to.

You know how I don't want to say awestruck, but I guess impressed. I was with your handling of your last campaign, which was first the announcement of your candidacy for president in the face of an incumbent president from your party. Who does that? Nobody does that. People don't do that.

I mean, it's crazy. was, you know, it was a, some people would say, I don't know that I entirely agree. In fact, there may be a day where the Phoenix rises, but.

Dean (19:01)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Parker (19:14)
I wouldn't call it a suicide mission, but you knew that if you were to do this, how your party would react. Nobody. And that's exactly why you...

Dean (19:25)
And that's exactly why I did it, by the way. That's exactly why

I did it. Andrew, the number of people that approached me and kind of subtly asked in various ways, know, did you really think you could win?

And, you if I'm being honest, the answer is no. It was the first undertaking of my entire adult life in which I really did not expect to win in the traditional sense. I had a very different objective. And I think you just pointed it out without even recognizing it. It was because we know what happens when you challenge the king, right? And this is... Mm-hmm. Exactly.

Andrew Parker (19:55)
You undressed the party.

And the fact of the matter is, people, if they're being honest, across the board, not like 50%, I'm talking 90, 95%, have to admit, because there are those who are wing nuts who are never going to admit, have to admit you were right. You were absolutely right. And then they rushed and brought in Harris.

What have you been doing since and what are you going to do going forward? Because somebody who does what you did, I want to know.

Dean (20:32)
Well, you asked about the past year. I took a gap year, Andrew. I've been spending a lot of time in California, kind of shed a lot of the past and starting to look to the future and really contemplating, you know, where does America go from here? I've read and reread George Washington's farewell address. I think every American should be reading that right now because, well, first let me remind everyone he's the only president in American history who wasn't affiliated with a political party.

Think about that, the only one in our history, in fact, in his farewell address, he advises this country, his young America, that one of the great concerns of his was the development of political parties and what would transpire. And let me tell you,

everything to a T that he predicted is coming true right now. And what I was trying to point out, and I'll tell you, look at it, I was raised in a democratic family, although my great grandfather, Jay Phillips, was the chair of the Democrats for Nixon campaign in Minnesota back with Percy Ross in 72. Mm-hmm. Yeah, right, exactly, in Minnesota, exactly. So at least he could pick a winner.

Andrew Parker (21:21)
Wow.

The last time the Republicans won.

Dean (21:41)
But my point is that, know, and politics in America is kind of like religion. You know, kind of adopt early what you're brought into and then you start thinking for yourself. I say this though because as recently as 2016, I was just your average Democratic voter. Didn't vote in primaries much, you know, went out for the general election and then I was, you know, provoked into action by that election.

And then when I was elected to Congress, I discovered that neither party is right or wrong. The whole system right now is wrong.

The parties are private corporations. They don't answer to voters. They're not really subject to the laws of the land. They operate in the way they want. And that's what we're seeing on both sides. And all my argument is, Andrew, and it's so simple because it's so fundamentally American, and that is competition. Why are we limiting competition in the most important industry? And I will say it is an industry in America.

If, you know, we don't have just Coke and Pepsi, you know, if Coke and Pepsi set the rules, we would have no Red Bull, no nothing else, right? Nothing else. And that's what we're finding in politics right now. My message to people when I saw this from the inside was neither party's got it right. We need competition. The best thing for this country is to elevate competition and reduce the barriers to entry, period. And that what I did over this past year is really talk to a lot of people, Andrew, about

center-right, center-left people who feel the same way. And I don't intend to be a candidate again. I'm not running for governor in Minnesota. But I do have an... Well, I, you know, and it's... And I'll tell you... And I'll tell you, I thought there was a good chance I would have done so.

Andrew Parker (23:14)
It'd be great if you did Dean. And this state needs a cleanup.

Dean (23:24)
But the killing of Melissa Hortman this summer, the attack on John Hoffman, I have to tell you, we're all human beings. And you have children, I have children. And I wasn't about to subject my family to the daily fear that sadly too many have to live with right now in elected office. And that really changed things. Because these were not rabble rousing, far leftist, crazy, ⁓ bomb throwing ⁓ elected officials. These were relatively reasonable, good, decent

people

and anybody listening right now would have opened their door to someone who looked like a police officer at three in the morning. And, but anyway, I'm diverging. My point is, my intention is to help create competition, identify outstanding people who wish to serve this country with the competency and the ability and the fortitude to do so. That's where I think I can add value because the country frankly right now is not ready for reasonable competition.

and sense ⁓ Democrats or Republicans. And if you look at who's replacing those who are leaving Congress and retiring, increasingly further left and further right. So ⁓ this has happened time and time again in America. All is not lost. unless, and I'll make one simple prescription, because it has nothing to with me or you or anybody listening right now. It has to do with all of us.

And that means voting in primary elections. If we want to do something immediately without changing the law, without crossing fingers and praying for change, get out and vote in primary elections, and then you have the right to complain. But you don't have the right to complain about a general election in which you did not participate in the selection of the candidates who will be on that ballot.

And that alone, open primaries, the jungle primary system in California, there are many ways that I think Minnesota and other states in the country can encourage competition, elevate those from the outside. And then lastly, campaign finance. There are way too many great Americans who would relish service but would never endeavor to have to sell their soul to the fundraising machine that is required to serve, certainly in federal office.

And I just think it's time that, you know, that we have some good conversation about this stuff because these are universal truths. I just had lunch yesterday, in fact, with two of my Republican colleagues, former colleagues from Congress, one whom is a governor now, one who stays, still stays in Congress. And it was just remarkable at how we focused on the things that we all agree need to be addressed. Health care, by the way, health care, campaign finance, right? Promoting competition. These are universal truths. So we just need some leadership. I'm hoping in the next election.

we might find American leaders to rise to that occasion. I, this is a clarion call, clarion call to anybody listening to encourage that right now.

Andrew Parker (26:15)
Yeah, and I'll tell you you make a very good point the political parties control the system they control who's on the general Election ballot and therefore it is a new day If you want any sort of involvement or actually have your voice heard You must work through the political party process. You must learn about it. You must show up and Nobody has done that for generations

And so it is, again, a new day. I do want to comment. You know, we're in the state of Minnesota. You've heard of Jesse Ventura, I believe. He ran as an independent, and he won. Huh. And it was in a ⁓ race where there was a strong enough Republican candidate, there was a strong enough Democrat candidate, where those votes are, and then, you know, he slid in. It can be done.

Dean (26:53)
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Parker (27:13)
and good.

Dean (27:13)
And by the

way, and I think people forget what a great cabinet affected some meaning. He, you know, I mean, you know, an unusual I mean, well, in hindsight, what we thought was a once in a lifetime bizarre event was ⁓ maybe number two or three on that on our list right now. But there were some elements of that election that I think were real positives. And it saddens me that the Independence Party in Minnesota couldn't maintain some of the that momentum to encourage kind of that spirit of independence that Minnesota was so well known for.

Andrew Parker (27:17)
Yeah, he did.

Dean (27:43)
I was in Toronto that day. remember that election day, Andrew. And I came down with the flu and I went to sleep early. had CNN on because I wanted to, you know...

Andrew Parker (27:47)
Yeah.

Dean (27:54)
I was watching the returns. I woke up at about three, four in the morning and it said Jesse Ventura was the governor of Minnesota. And I literally thought I was having some type of a medical event. I mean, really thought, I mean, to beat Humphrey, beat, it was Norman Coleman, right? Coleman and Humphrey, two very prominent names and people in Minnesota. It goes to show Americans when given the chance,

Andrew Parker (28:05)
You

Yeah. Yeah.

Dean (28:19)
⁓ to ⁓ vote for an alternative will do so. They'll do so, but it's awfully hard unless you have that extraordinary platform recognition celebrity to do so. And therein lies the great challenge because it's a billion dollar campaign these days to run for president of the United States. And it doesn't matter if you're Ross Perot, doesn't matter if you're Jesse Ventura, that's hard to compete with. And I think it's time that we start doing it differently.

Andrew Parker (28:40)
Yeah. Yeah.

But I could

see the path here in Minnesota. There are a lot of people who don't want to vote for Tim Walz and there are a lot of people who don't want to vote for whoever the Republican is. ⁓ Anyway, it would be interesting. Let me ask you before we move ⁓ into discussing a little more about Minnesota. I want to get your thoughts on the Republican Party and whether

there is hope for the Republican Party. I know that you believe strongly that this country needs to have a conservative party, it needs to have a liberal party. Maybe it's best to have several other parties in addition, but at least those two. And the parties should be healthy, and I guess you won't be surprised to learn I don't think the parties are very healthy right now.

Dean (29:40)
No, and frankly, I don't think either party has been, quote unquote, healthy. First of all, health is relative. Healthy for democracy, ⁓ it's been a long time. And I don't think Americans are very well aware of.

how the party system really, really operates and how the incentive structure operates. And that's why you see so many sheep on both sides of the aisle, because the system is designed to stay in line, keep your mouth shut, climb the ladder, make it a career, and one day you too in 30 years can ascend to some type of a leadership position. We pay ⁓ elected officials very modestly, and we create a disincentive to attract the most competent, best and brightest, and we create a disincentive to serve

serve with intensity and ⁓ intention, and then move on. Just the opposite. That's why we have, you know, essentially career politicians. So I think both parties have been a mess for a long time. You there will always be the ebb and flow of who's kind of up and who's down because that's the nature of a two-party system. ⁓ And that's why I think competition is important. By the way, neither brand, in my estimation, stands for anything clear anymore. There wasn't a day not long ago, and you remember.

You'd say Republican. Well, low taxes, States' rights, freedom. know, there's a handful of pro-business. Liberals stood for helping everybody and health care for all. And there were some very simple, understandable messages. Right now, nobody can understand, which either party stands for. And that's why I do think whether it's another party, whether it is people, you call it what you will, an alternative that is well-defined, that is invitational to Americans,

in which Americans actually invest and become partners, if you will, in parties. And all politics is local. And I think it's gonna have to start that way. It's not gonna be top down. I don't think the Republican Party is in any better shape, frankly, than Democrats as it relates to the future. And time will tell.

Andrew Parker (31:39)
What do you think the Republican Party looks like post

Donald Trump?

Dean (31:44)
I've always associated the Republican Party with, again, states' rights and basic conservatism. ⁓ And I don't see, I don't know, I don't see those elements ⁓ right now. I don't understand what the Democratic Party stands for. I understand what they say. I don't see the actions. And frankly, the same is with the Republican Party. Donald Trump, ⁓ a success story for the ages as it relates to a politician with a marketing mind like none else.

but he has made it even more difficult to understand the future of the Republican Party. My hope is that a rising generation of Republican public servants, many of whom I served with and I admire, will kind of recapture the compassionate conservatism that I think America needs and is known for. And I'd like to see the same thing happen on the left. And if we really get down to it, both parties better be darn... ⁓

start acknowledging and be darn aware of the fact that the base of both sides right now is essentially saying the same thing. And this goes back to making America affordable, Andrew. You know, I don't think we are doing ourselves or our future a favor if we don't acknowledge that there are way too many Americans who are just struggling too much while turning on their TVs and their phones and their tablets and laptops at night and seeing extraordinary wealth being created overnight by 20-somethings.

And that is America, by the way.

But when we get to a point where so many people have so little and a handful have so much, it doesn't matter what party you are part of, it doesn't matter if you're a conservative or liberal, we are facing the same fundamental challenge. It causes revolution, it has time and time again, it erodes democracy, and it's time that both parties recognize that is job number one. And if they can't cooperate on ensuring that Americans have a chance to succeed, if they work hard, pursue an education, follow the law,

and give it their best, it doesn't matter. And I think we're talking about stuff at 35,000 feet when the reality is this is not even a political question anymore. This is an existential question about whether or not we are willing to have a really, really ⁓ heart-to-heart with each other and start providing a governance system that makes it possible to succeed in America the way that our foremothers and forefathers could. That is what I'm most, most focused on right now.

Andrew Parker (33:49)
Yes.

Dean (34:09)
And it's not a political question, it's an existential question.

Andrew Parker (34:11)
No, and

⁓ it's not even a policy question. ⁓ It really is fundamental to the foundational values that we all believe in, that we share. And the prescriptions of how to get there, OK, there's disagreement. But ⁓ we need to go back to that day. I am going to pull and read, again, George Washington's farewell address. I appreciate you raising it because

It is absolutely spot on for today's day and age in particular. Let's turn to talk about the 32nd state of the United States founded in 1858 indeed. you know in the 1850s, very early on, Minnesota was the third largest state

in the United States. I didn't know that I was doing a little bit looking on that. You know, the North Star State, 10,000 lakes, Minnesota, nice cold winters. We have the Four Seasons like few other ⁓ places do. And we were always known for good government. Hubert Humphrey, Walter Mondale, Rudy Boschwitz, then Norm Coleman and Tim Pawlenty. ⁓

You probably don't remember you're about three years old, but in 1973, you hold up the Time magazine cover, quote, a state. Yeah, a state that works. That was the headline, Wendy Anderson with the. All right, so we've come a long way since those days. We've come to.

Dean (35:48)
Yep. Wendy Anderson. That works.

Mm-hmm.

Andrew Parker (36:07)
COVID and the handling of COVID and the shutting down of our state. Some say, oh, was the right thing to do. But you know, most say there were a lot of people that died. We could have done better. OK. And they died without their loved ones next to them. How bad can that get? Now, yes, it was a pandemic. Nobody knew who we were dealing with, et cetera, et cetera. In retrospect, we could have done better and we could have done better in this state. Secondly, the summer of 2020. I mean,

It's horrific, the murder of George Floyd, but billions of dollars of property damage, law enforcement completely destroyed the third precinct. ⁓ And yes, the murder was wrong. The murderer is in prison, and that's how we deal with it. We don't deal with it by rioting in the street that went across this country to city upon city upon that went across the world. All started.

Here in Minnesota, and now we're dealing with a $9 billion fraud because we've got all of these, you know, I don't know that they're Islamists, but they're working under a different set of rules than we are. You know, what's going on with that? 90%, 90 plus percent are Somali Muslims who engaged in taking billions of dollars from

hardworking people here.

Minnesota, when it's brought up in the national news, is a disgrace. What are we going to do about it,

Dean (37:47)
Well.

Let's reflect a little bit on Minnesota and our past. What made our state so remarkable in my estimation was it attracted hardworking, industrious, Northern Europeans from the late mid-19th century through the mid-20th century. People who were not seeking leisure, luxury, warm weather, they were seeking opportunity and community. And as a result, Minnesota

became home to more Fortune 500 companies per capita than any state in the country. And we were known. We had distinctions. Darn cold, but outstanding education, clean, effective governance, and a well-trained workforce, available workforce, well-trained, and safety and security. And, you know, for most of the 20th century, you know, those attributes were enough to drive a lot of success in Minnesota. And...

I think what we saw, first of all, the George Floyd murder changed Minneapolis and the country, if not the world forever. And we should talk about that a little bit. But COVID.

changed everything and all of it for the worse for Minnesota. Take the horror of the George Floyd murder aside. COVID allowed people to work from home, anywhere in the world, in just about any industry ⁓ and succeed, which meant that you could be in Florida working for a Minnesota based company and enjoy the weather and no taxes. And that was a first.

And anyone who is listening right now in Minnesota who thinks we can compete any longer using the same policies of the past, you're out of your mind.

You know, people do not come to Minnesota for the beautiful weather. They do not come to Minnesota for the low taxes. The only reason people would come to Minnesota is for outstanding opportunity, outstanding safety and security, and outstanding education. And I'm afraid on those three counts right now, I don't see any evidence that we are outperforming many states in the country. If anything, we've fallen behind. And if you look at Minnesota as having built a beautiful foundation over 150 years, you know, we're relying on a foundation that is cracking,

is tired and is in desperate need of outstanding innovative thinking. And no, I don't see any of it amongst Democrats or Republicans in Minnesota right now.

Andrew Parker (40:08)
God,

it sounds like a governor candidate to me. I mean, it sounds like a governor candidate. I want that. Let me, let me just comment. it's beautiful. Right.

Dean (40:15)
Well, so anyway, that's, just, needed to get my two cents in about, again, I don't, I'm less

concerned about the politics right now, Andrew. I'm more concerned about the pragmatism of getting our act together. And we're gonna become just another average state real fast. And that's gonna break the hearts of all of us on this show right now.

Andrew Parker (40:24)
I know!

Well, that's right. And all all that we see in the national news regarding Minnesota is not about the weather and the snowstorm and the cold anymore. ⁓ The whole era with George Floyd and what was shown on the nightly news every single night. That wasn't good. The whole covid time. But but certainly this this fraud is is not good in Minnesota.

Dean (40:45)
No. Nope.

Andrew Parker (41:04)
deserves better because it's not accurate. We need to push back. The reputation for a moralistic political culture rooted in civic engagement and a belief in using government to improve the community's quality of life is what good government is. And that is what we stood for. ⁓

good friends with Tim Palenny as you know and I just think he did ⁓ an excellent job as governor and I think Mark Dayton did okay. I disagree with Mark Dayton on a lot of stuff ⁓ but don't underestimate Mark Dayton. ⁓ But I just think we've really lost our way and ⁓ we got to find it back because Minnesota deserves better.

Dean (42:03)
I agree. Can I say one thing quick, Andrew, about the fraud? think just so I don't lose this thought, what we're seeing, by the way, we've known in Minnesota for some time that there has been fraud in these programs. ⁓ Now it's been nationalized and politicized, so of course it's gonna be front and center for some time and it's atrocious.

Andrew Parker (42:03)
So what are your ⁓

We didn't know it was nine billion or even a billion.

Dean (42:25)
Yeah, we don't, we don't, what makes this even more remarkable is of course we don't even have a clue, which says everything we need to know that there were not any controls, the controls that were in place I should say were ⁓ ineffective, but, and this is not a good one, when I served in the United States Congress and was part of the congressional ⁓ cohort that passed the PPP bill, which I think was outstanding imperative legislation, you we did so in a rush to save small businesses

that were on the precipice and there's no question that you know are we and was part of it we failed to ensure adequate staffing resourcing and systems to prevent fraud and Every estimate that I see both when I was in Congress and now Andrew indicates that well over 200 billion dollars may have been stolen due to fraud during the PPP program every year estimates are that about 60 billion are stolen from

in Medicare fraud. Not misbillings and mistakes. I'm talking about intentional fraud.

Andrew Parker (43:31)
Yes.

Dean (43:31)
And

this is just what we're seeing in Minnesota is atrocious because we are not used to that in Minnesota We are a clean government state that roots this out fast and prevents it in the first place So all I'm trying to say here is it's atrocious and repulsive, but it is not unique to Minnesota It is not unique to this community by the way And I feel terrible for the Somali community the hard-working members of the Somali community who are busting their tails building businesses raising families that are now

being, you know, cast in this light because of so many others in the community that have taken advantage of the kindness and the largesse and the thoughtfulness and the compassion of Minnesota and the United States of America. ⁓ So.

Andrew Parker (44:12)
Well, I believe that there

is an Islamist strain that runs through, as it relates to money going to the hands of those living here and then going overseas to support certain terror measures. the more of that that comes out, I think, will

Dean (44:36)
I haven't seen that evidence, but if it exists, I...

Andrew Parker (44:42)
support my prognostication of ⁓ part of what's going on here. ⁓ Dean, I wanna give you a chance, you talked about it a little bit ⁓ already, ⁓ but to talk a little bit more about what 2026 looks like for Dean Phillips.

Dean (45:04)
tell you, Andrew, I'm giving thought to how to be a participant that adds value instead of just be another pundit or another voice. And we've got plenty of those. It's loud, it's diverse, it's relentless. And America doesn't need just another voice like mine in the wilderness. What it needs is people, I think, like you and me and others who, by the way, I think it's important that people see things differently, have different propositions and perspectives.

but at least have a shared interest in getting something done.

And my focus will be in getting things done, ⁓ getting people to the table. I just made a major investment, my family and I, in a program through the Citizens League that is a ⁓ state-level version of what I thought was a brilliant program in Washington, which was a congressional program that matched a Republican member of Congress with a Democratic member of Congress. And you would travel to each other's districts for a couple days ⁓ and learn about the issues, meet the people, spend time together as colleagues.

and it was called the Congressional Exchange Program and Jonathan Perman who initiated that has now brought that to Minnesota with our support and some others.

And next year, we're really going to roll it out in a big way. We're going to have state legislators on the Republicans and Democrats visiting each other's districts, getting to know each other in the spirit of trying to do what we have to do first, which is get people to trust one another. So I think if I can add any value in 2026, I think it will be small ball. You you probably won't hear my name much, and that's fine. But I'm going to be working hard to encourage people to start having conversations because what we're doing, what I did with my Republican colleagues

in Congress continue to do with them to this day is start breaking down these artificial barriers that are basically falsehoods propagated by 21st century media. And we think of each other as monsters and are kind of pleasantly surprised when we actually kind of get along and actually see many things the same way. So that's what I'm going to be doing. I think Minnesota can, must, and should be at the forefront of national reconciliation. And I think with that, Minnesota can recapture some of that spirit that we enjoyed for

so many decades. So that's what you're going to see from me. And then secondly, I'm speaking to a number of business owners in Minnesota, family-owned businesses, ⁓ that are like-minded in their dismay about the tax situation, about the change in Minnesota's climate. I'm talking about business climate and concerns for the future. And my message to them is then become participants. Don't just complain. Support this initiative like Congressional Exchange or the Minnesota Legislative Exchange.

promote conversation, and most importantly, in the absence of politicians coming up with good policy solutions, maybe it's time for the business community with the great thinkers and diversity of opinion that are usually then aligned on objectives to come up with some ideas and inject them into the discourse. So I'm going to be spending time using the levers that do exist to try to encourage that rather than...

knock my head against the wall trying to create new levers that I think we all know need to ultimately exist, but we don't have right now the energy to do so. So that's what I'll be doing and I'm optimistic and I'm hopeful, ⁓ but that will only work if thousands and thousands of more Minnesotans join us in starting to reconcile and make change and ⁓ come up with some good ideas.

Andrew Parker (48:33)
Where would you,

Dean, where would you direct someone if they wanted to drop you a note, give you their thoughts, either a website or an email? I want you to just get inundated. I want you to get inundated with emails and comments. Run for governor,

Dean (48:45)
I'd love to share my email.

Hey, I love it. Hey, look at you know, after

after you go through what I went through in 2024.

Andrew Parker (48:58)
yeah.

Dean (48:58)
Any

email, even a somewhat nasty email is refreshing compared to some of the things I had to deal with then. My email is dean at philipsforcongress.org, dean at philipsforcongress.org. That is not ⁓ designed because I'm running for Congress again. It is my residual political address. I see it. I would love to hear from people. And if anyone listening wants to be, if you want to invest $5, $50, $50,000,

Andrew Parker (49:20)
Yeah, I knew you would.

Dean (49:28)
in encouraging Minnesota to become national leaders again in good governance. Check out the Citizens League. I think they're the only game in town really right now that is trying to encourage this. And I think the Minnesota legislative.

program that I just shared with you is one that people can actually participate in and hold their own elected officials accountable for participating. Right? So that's, I'd love to hear from people and I'm not afraid if you got problems with me let me know. ⁓

Andrew Parker (49:58)
No,

absolutely. I knew you would. I hope people reach out and encourage you to continue doing the great work you're doing. Maybe take a little bit of an exit ramp onto a governor's campaign. But regardless of that, you know, it's Dean Phillips who he wasn't the first. But ⁓ with the repercussions that he knew he would get, he may well be because Joe Lieberman stepped out

as you recall, quite publicly against Bill Clinton. And he was right too. I voted for Clinton twice, ⁓ and I thought there was a lot he did as president that was quite good. But Joe Lieberman called him out because Joe Lieberman has principles. And when you're wrong, you're wrong. And don't mince words.

Dean (50:53)
Yeah, but know, I'll tell you though, but when you're, it doesn't matter right or wrong, if you get out of line and upset one of the parties, you know, each party has its own bullhorn. You know, there's, and that's just the truth, you know. ⁓ You can argue how tightly connected they are, but MS Now and Fox, you know, when you're up against massive media machines, it doesn't matter how right you are, how thoughtful, ⁓ how poignant or...

What a great prognosticator you are. If you get out of line, there is a machine ready to absolutely redefine who you are. And the prince can become the pauper real fast. And Joe Lieberman, he felt it and I lament that. Yep.

Andrew Parker (51:31)
And Trump and yeah, he felt it.

He ⁓ and I got to say Donald Trump has put that machine on steroids. If you get on the wrong side of Donald Trump, I forget it.

Dean (51:44)
And let me say

that that prompts me to have to say and I cannot believe I'm actually saying this. In fact, I'm astounded. But Marjorie Taylor Greene, I did not think I would pay her a compliment on your show. I got to tell you, she's showing me something right now that I'm astounded by. And if she can do it. I don't care. By the way, I'm talking to everybody right now, Democrats, Republicans, if you love Trump, hate Trump, you know, whatever.

Andrew Parker (52:07)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dean (52:13)
You know, to make us, to take a stand that you know is going to essentially either end your career, remove you from the party or from the club, if you will, you know, I do have, I do honor people like that because Washington is filled with people who will say and do anything to be invited to the White House Christmas party, to go to the Situation Room once in while and appear on the news and look like you're part of the inner sanctum. When you give that up.

Andrew Parker (52:39)
Some of them are elected officials in Minnesota, in fact,

who will tell you, I'm not voting for the Iran deal, and you

Dean (52:44)
and go.

Andrew Parker (52:52)
Anyway, Dean, thank you so much for joining us on the show today. It was fantastic as I knew it would be. I always enjoy ⁓ chatting with you about the issues of the day. We come at them sometimes from different perspectives, but I always learn a lot and ⁓ that's all I'm looking for, to learn from somebody right like you.

Dean (53:15)
Right? And me too. And let me say, even

though I'm not running for governor, you know, I would like to make it clear that whoever might ascend to the governorship after the next election, you know, I'm one of many Minnesotans who would be thrilled to assist the next governor in developing and implementing thoughtful policies to improve lives, improve safety, improve education, and reduce corruption anytime.

And the more of us that can be participants in that, the better. of course.

Andrew Parker (53:46)
Regardless of party. Yeah.

Dean (53:48)
⁓

In fact, I would argue actually, I think it's incumbent on a Democratic governor to encourage and engage and welcome and invite Republicans to that table and vice versa. And let Minnesota now become distinctive for a good reason and that will be determined by the next governor of the state about how he or she actually takes that responsibility on. And if it's gonna be more of the same, rest assured, we're gonna be on the wrong path.

Andrew Parker (54:16)
Well, we're going to move it back to the I just have to end on a positive note. We're going to move it back to the right path. Dean, with people like you out there still in the game in the arena, ⁓ we still have hope. We still have a chance. Absolutely. ⁓ Go to I just have to make the announcement. Go to the Andrew Parker show dot com. Subscribe.

Dean (54:30)
Hear hear. Keep the faith. Keep the faith.

Andrew Parker (54:42)
Follow we're on all the different social media. I don't know. I had somebody research names. I didn't even never even heard of them and you know, we're on there and And you can find us anywhere but the andrewparkershow.com Subscribe follow us like us do the thumbs up. I don't know whatever things you can do on It's newfangled every day. They come up with something new You can also text us. There it is nine five two five two two

2818, you disagree, we'll go into the mailbag and we'll take a look at your text messages. I love responding to, ⁓ you have every right to be wrong. You do, you have every right to be wrong. I will point it out for you, but we'll have a little tada-tad, a little discourse. Dean Phillips, thank you for joining us on the Andrew Parker Show and until next time, be kind to your neighbor.

Dean (55:41)
You're here.