WCWM: In Conversation with Trudy

Trudy’s story underscores a critical issue: the lack of representation of women, especially women of color, in STEM fields. Growing up, she was often one of the only black girls in her classes. Trudy emphasizes how crucial it is for young girls to see role models in engineering and construction, as this visibility can inspire the next generation.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Welcome to the working class women movement. I'm your host, Tanita Teriti, and today I'm in conversation with Trudy, but we're gonna let her tell us a little bit about herself before we dive into the various topics we have today. So Trudy, how are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:26

And okay.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

So you are a digital lead. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_00 0:35

All the problems that have to do with BIM, contracts, legalities, finances, forecasting, the day-to-day conversations with contractors when something goes wrong. I am the burden. I'm the one who bears the brunt of it all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:51

Yeah. And when you speak about BEAM, because not everybody would know what BIM is. What is BEAM?

SPEAKER_00 0:58

The easiest way I can define BIM to be is it stands for building information modeling. So when you think about it, it's a 3D visualization of a building. So you have a structural building, architectural building, um, and all your services via electrical, mechanical, and the like. And it's more so bringing them in together into one common environment where you can see how the services interact with each other. You can predict where the problems are gonna be when the site when installation happens. You can be better informed in the design process.

SPEAKER_01 1:32

And did you actually think one day you were gonna be in that role? I mean never. Never did you end up in BEAM.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

So um I started off when I finished my HSE. I had um all of my, I guess, UAC inputs at that time was actually law. So I got a partial scholarship to study law at Western Sydney University, and construction was at the very bottom of that list. I had conversations with my dad and my uncle, and both my uncles are one works in property and one's a lawyer. So I had conversations with them both as to where I should take my career. And my uncle recommended construction. He said there's lots of money in it, it's super easy. Project management is fun. If you hate it, you can always drop back out and go and do law again. Um, so I said, okay, let me give that a try. In my second year at UTS, I won an award, um, and that was actually in digital engineering, digital design and construction is what the unit is. And that award came with a cash prize, and I got offered a job at Richard Brooks Construction. And to me, that kind of sounded like everything fell into place. So I decided to follow that path, and now this is where I am. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Okay, so let's take it a few steps back, right? So we're gonna take it a few steps back to where you grew up, where you're from, um, just your early childhood, because sometimes it kind of does build a foundation of who we end up being, even if we're not conscious of it. So let's go back a few years to when you're a young girl, where were you born, where you're from, and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

So I was born in Ghana. Um, I came to Australia when I was about five, twenty years old with my mum and my brother. Um, so I grew up in Australia. I was born in a small town called Kumasi, you know, in Ghana. Um, my dad was here already with my grandmother and my two uncles. I went to a school out in Maryland, and I was very much the academic child out of my siblings. My brother was the sports one, I was the books and nerds one. I would lock myself in my room for a whole day to read Twilight. Anything that involved reading, that was my bread and butter. That's where I kind of felt like maybe law would be something that I would be passionate about. Um, I wasn't too much into sports, I had two left feet. So every sport that I tried or my dad pushed me into, I would quit in about three months. And I would rotate from swimming to dancing to tennis to soccer to netball. Any type of sports he would try, I would fail. So I kind of just locked in and just did tutoring most of my high school years. Um, I worked when I was in high school at McDonald's for about six years. Yeah. And then I was and became team manager or crew trainer, whatever they call it nowadays at Maccas. Um, and then from there I worked in retail, I worked at a rapport center. So nothing in my upbringings ever pointed in direction that I was gonna be working in the construction industry. I was very much into the glit, the glam. I was the girliest of girls. Um, I loved the color pink, I loved shopping with my mom, loving my nails done. So construction was never really my cup of tea when I was growing up.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

Yeah. Okay. So we know you're a girliest girl, then you end up in engineering um or in construction, and then we know that environment is different, very male dominant. And now you're this girl, girl, you've changed parts, you're now in this industry, then what happens? How do you now fit in this, you know, this, you know, from Maccas to, you know, um uh what do you call this? Uh what's the other one you said?

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Um retail.

SPEAKER_02 5:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

How do you then now fit in this construction world? I don't.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Um, I think my first job, my first job at Richard Crooks, I had asked to be a building cadet. So I wanted to work on site to actually know how building is put together. So I can be better equipped to actually inform people of how the digital world works when it comes to construction. Um, I came home for a good six months trying every day because I hated it. Um my dad would be like, Trudy, you've quit everything, are you really gonna quit this one again? I was like, okay, fair enough. So I guess that was sort of my motivation to keep going. My mum, on the other hand, would always say if you hated it, but life is too short to be doing something you don't like. Um so if you don't like it, try something else. I am glad I stuck it through. Um, being the girl the girl on site, I had to switch personalities a lot. So I stripped a lot back from the type of conversations I would have. I would try to fit in more with the boy conversations, but that really wasn't something I I could do. Um, I think there was a time when I was the only female on site with about ten other males in one site office. And being a side cadet, I was the bottom of the food chain. So coffee runs, printing, stickers, um, you know, getting drinks for f at four PM on Friday was quite literally what my role was. There was a definitely a disconnect because I could sense that they didn't want to say things because I was a female. So there were some conversations that they shook back on. There were some words that they refrained from saying. Um but you would walk on site and you would see penises drawn on the walls all the time. So very boyish culture, um, which was a big shift from what I was used to. So the days 5 p.m., I was out of I was out. I did not want to stay any longer than I had to because there was a sense of belonging that I didn't feel like I fit in when it came to working on site.

SPEAKER_01 7:27

Yeah, and you still stuck it through, you still pushed through and look at you now, you're in a whole digital space. But one thing I've also got to realize, like I also never really had the background of the built environment at all. Um, and when I got into it, I found it quite strange, as much as they do try to be inclusive and they do try to be diverse. Um, at an old company I worked for, it's quite international. Yeah, and I mean this is what brought me here, but long story. But anyway, one thing I realized that females were never a lot compared to men, so the percentage would be very low. Um, and at the same time, and then women of color will be less, yeah. So there's not a lot of representation. And do you think it's because, and this is just your opinion, like, is it because the STEM world is not really something our family pushes us into, or is it that when we go to school, it's not something that is taught to say you can exist in the world of engineering, you can exist in the world of construction. Like, what's your opinion and your take there, especially when it comes to women of color?

SPEAKER_00 8:48

I grew up with a father that was very much so Bob the Builder. So anything that had to do with house repairs, from down lights to building shelves to um building retaining walls, my dad was always very much so hands-on. So, and my family was always very much so you have to have the three things. You either have to be working business. You I my mom knew that I could not be a nurse for the life of me because I don't like blood. Um, or you have to be you have to be a lawyer, or you have to work in some sort of architecture in order because my dad loves architecture. So I knew those were the four paths that were set out for me regardless of whatever I wanted to do, and I had to watch I had to I had to fall in line of one. Um, I was one of two black girls in my degree and being fortunate enough, I actually teach at UTS as well, and I teach the unit digital design and construction. And I think in I've been teaching for about five years, I've probably seen two black girls in those five years of teaching. Um when it comes to why that is, I think depending on what school you go to, the options that you get taught are very much so based on your demographic. So I went to an all-girls catholic school. So when we had those three days, it was quite literally nursing, business, teacher. That's probably all they ever spoke about. Working in math, science, or STEM was never really discussed at all. I learned about construction from smackers. I was I was on a closing shift with one other girl, and we're talking about what we actually put into our university category. And she was saying she put in construction. She was very much like me. Girly girl had her nails down all the time. And I was like, Why are you doing project management? She goes, There's lots of money in a tree. And I was like, okay. Never thought about that before. So that was the first time I even knew what project management was or was even an option. Um, but it's nothing that's taught in school why that is. I think they just assume that we don't have the capacity or capability to be in an environment that high stakes, high rhythms, and very toxic when it comes to and also male.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

And also, isn't it I I would also want to believe it's also because not a lot of people are out there to say this is what I do. So when I when I joined the company we work for, I started the role, and then I think you sent an email, and then I saw your your surname, and I was like, and I'm done. And I got excited, and then and then I met one of our colleagues who's male, but he's African, he's from Kenya. So I was like, okay, I don't know, that's another one. Then I'm like, okay, digital works with you know, our mutual colleague. And I was like, okay, this is interesting, and I was actually quite excited, and even if I didn't go into teams and say, oh, hey, Trudy, I'm actually excited. There's a woman of color in the company, it makes us two. Yay! That makes us true. I literally, yeah, it's just that visibility for me, and I feel like not a lot of us go out there and have the conversations, and this is why I really wanted to have a platform that because majority of the people that will watch this podcast or watch this episode, most of my followers or listeners are people who are in South Africa and some parts of Africa.

SPEAKER_02 12:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Just making, just wanting them to see that it's possible, but also African representing women in Australia.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Because I haven't, I've seen a lot of African women in Australia, but I'm not seeing them in the roles I feel like they could be, it could be 10 in a company, you know, it could be 20 in a company. And just how is it possible? How is she doing it? How is Trudy doing it? How did she get there? You know, because sometimes it's like I did law, went to university, graduated, in my mind, I wanted to go to court, represent people. That was the whole picture, that was the big plan. And then because I started working different jobs, being a personal assistant, being an executive assistant, I then realized there's more out there than, you know, going to court and stuff. Do I want to represent people? As much as it's still a passion of mine, I don't want to see myself in court anymore. But I like the business part of law. I like acquisitions. I like, you know, those that part of law. So it's half the time you just don't know what you don't know, right? Until you throw yourself in there. Like there's one lecturer from Melbourne University. I had contacted her and I wanted, I'm in search of a mentor. So I'm like to her, I'm just feeling stuck, right? I was like, I'm so stuck. I know what I wanted to do, but I'm now stuck in this build environment. Uh, but I can't give back, right? Because a part of just doing law for me was having the ability to give back into society, right? And then she says to me, You, you know, don't take anything you've done for granted because you actually built yourself to be where you are today and you're gonna still keep on growing. And one day you'll find yourself in a position where you're like, How did I even get here? But having to feed my soul, that's when I started wanting to share stories with people. And I told myself, even if it's one person, one person is that listens, one person who goes, Thank you for that episode, it's good enough for me, right? Then I started my little nonprofit, did my little stuff, and then right now feeding into what I majored into. So I majored in criminal law, and now I actually volunteer my time for corrections Victoria, where I visit women in prison. And which is a lot of people are like, how do you do that? That is the most scary space to actually walk in. But then for me, it's seeing other women that I want to see them be better and do better. Because in my mind, I believe that you can actually rehabilitate a woman. The chances are highly likely compared to a male counterpart or whatever. But I walk in those corridors trying to be a voice of reason, understand, I might not understand the crime itself, and I do not care for it. I care for the human, you know, and that now feeds my soul. Yet I do my nine to five, yeah, but I also do a part of it that really fulfills me. And having to go to those spaces where I have those conversations. It's like, what are you doing? What are you learning when you go out? What do you want to do? And most of these women are starting getting into construction, which is quite good, right? But then having to then also understand literacy, numeracy, which is also a big thing now these days. And if you look at a lot of the new generation, not of the not a lot of them are seen for education. No, I don't need the degree.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

Yeah, they're they're very much on the serve. This this whole wave of digital marketing, this whole wave of quick money. You can work from home, you can work on a phone. Like, yes, that's true, that's true, but you still need a nine to five to fund that. You need some stable income to actually let you be able to do and touch base and other things and grow other businesses until you can actually network.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

Yeah. Because that's one thing people forget, right? It's like being in these spaces is your network. Yeah, your network is your net worth, right? So you keep on growing, you meet people, different companies, and one day what you really wanted to do, you end up being there because you've put in the work. And a lot of young women don't want to put you all right, they don't want to put in the work anymore. It has to be quick money, it's never about feeding the brain what you know, what you do not know, and stuff like that, you know. So, okay, we can get into it. So, now let's go back again. So, we're going back to you when you were hmm fresh in university. Yeah, fresh in university. Knowing what you know now, what would you tell yourself? Knowing what you know now, working, you don't know um, the adversities you faced, if you've ever faced discrimination, which I would believe you have, knowing what you know now, what would you go back and tell the first year you?

SPEAKER_00 17:39

Um, I would tell her that it doesn't get easier. Um it doesn't get easier because every day is a new challenge, every day is a new obstacle, every day is a new hurdle, but you do become better equipped with the tools to handle it. You learn how to process your emotions a lot better, you learn how to detach your sense of self from the output of work that you produce. You learn how to talk better to people, you learn um a lot of new skills, you learn you gain a lot of new mentors, you gain a lot of and my mentors I have to attribute my success to. If it wasn't for Tyrone Piraci at Richard Books who offered me my first job, I would not be here where I am today. Um so there are lots of people that you will come across that see value in you, in your work, that will propel you in ways that you've never seen today. Or if you look somewhere, if you look to your other university counterparts, it's a completely different path that they've ran. So you meet a lot of people that see a lot of value that will feed into you, that will push you to be the best you can be. It doesn't get easier, but it becomes worth it. The hard work becomes worth it.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

It does become worth it. That's so true. Okay, while you were going through your career, what mistakes have you done and what have they taught you?

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Oh, um, there was one time where I forgot to flag a column on an airport project that was sitting right in front of the baggage handling system. So when our bags are put into the carousels, they go through this little machine that spins them around and then slips them back out. There was a new column, there was an existing column that was there, so we could knock that down and I forgot to flag that um in one of the meetings. I don't I think I during that time, high stress, I was looking at models all the time. Human error, I was tired, I was fatigued. I didn't flag it and it got to a point in the meetings where someone was like, Wait, that's that's a problem. And I was like, Oh, it is how did I miss that one? It's a pretty big one, so how did I how did I miss that one? Um, I I cried that day. I cried because I felt like the whole entire world was about to end. I felt like I was about to lose my job. I felt like this is an airport, what have I done? I've ruined everything. Um, my sense of worth was so low. I was so upset at myself. Um, that taught me to separate my worth from my art. That taught me it humanized me. I am not a computer, I am a machine, I'm a person. I can make mistakes. It's okay to make mistakes, but it's not the mistake that defines you, it's how you build from your mistake. So from that mistake, do you take the corrective action? Do you apologize for it? And then recheck all your work to make sure you haven't missed anything. You speak to the people that actually are impacted by this mistake and figure out what you can do to make it better. Um so I definitely learnt a lot of mitigation at the output after a mistake has been made. And I definitely want to separate my sense of itself from the work I deliver. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

And also just really taking the accountability goes a long way, right? It does teach you just taking that accountability and seeing then getting help because that's another thing. Then everybody steps in to make sure that everything works properly. Okay, and because you're in the digital space, right, and the world is now AI. How does that look for your role itself? And also what does the future of Beam and AI can it coexist? And or do you then step back a little bit and let AI do the work? Because I mean, digital is growing so quick, yeah, than we are. So, how does that look for you? Like, what's your opinion there?

SPEAKER_00 21:43

That's so funny because I think I stepped into construction when BIM was first in a primitive era. Yeah. When I first stepped, BIM was so new, and I think that's why I was able to propel because it I honed in on that steel and it became the the gold clock essentially. I don't think AI is going to get rid of BIM or digital engineering. It would enhance it. But as people thought way before, where they thought, okay, we have BIM, we have something that can check the models. We won't need engineers. At the end of the day, you still need someone to do the processing. You still need someone to do the checking, the validation, to make sure it all works. So there will be a lot less BIM or digital people because the computer is doing the most of the work. But now it'll be more so of a skill as to how can you hone AI? How can you hone these fast language modeling machines to better your skills? So digital, you may call it prompt engineering would be a huge thing. Can you prompt AI in a way that delivers 100% accuracy? Um can you prompt AI in a way that enhances the work you produce but doesn't sit random facts and it's a lie pretty much because that's a big problem with AI is the actual validity of what it spits out. Sometimes it can conjure up God knows what. So there will definitely be a reduction in the amount of people in the industry for sure. Um, but the skills that people are going to be looking at is front engineering and how you can use that to better digital rules.

SPEAKER_01 23:14

That's true. Because yeah, right now AI does um hallucinate a lot. I mean, we've tried it for a while now to review um level one contracts and yeah, it it it it was just more confusing than it was it does that, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

It sits that information. They're like, where did you get this from?

SPEAKER_01 23:36

Like, where are you getting this information? I told you to read the document. Why aren't you reading the document? You're not reading. Can you just write some little red document? We still need a lot of human touch and a lot of stuff. Okay, so we've spoken about um your work. Yes, we've spoken about you going to school. Now I want to know what does Trudy do outside work? What keeps you going?

SPEAKER_00 24:06

I which is so crazy because I I do a lot. Um I love to I still love to read. Um, I love to draw. Um, I love shopping. I am a fanatic shopping. Um, I am what the people classify as type maintenance. I'm still very much a shopaholic. I still love doing the girly things, I love getting my eyebrows done, I love dressing up, I love I haven't lost that side of me just because I've stepped into a male-dominated space. Yeah. Um, those two, those two worlds can coexist. I think the funniest thing is whenever someone looks at me and they're like, oh, what do you do for work? I was like, oh, I'm an engineer, and they're looking at like oh, yeah. Yes, I am. Hard hat and everything, guys, hard hat and everything. Yeah. Um, but recently I signed to this PR agency. So I go to a lot of um, I go to a lot of PR events and um play with makeup a lot, um, dress up a lot. So kind of living a Hannah Montana double life in a way. Um but but but yeah, that's that's what I do in my story time.

SPEAKER_01 25:12

Yeah. Okay. One last one, outside work, truly. What brings you joy?

SPEAKER_00 25:21

What brings me joy is going to sleep every day and knowing that I've made little me high. Um, when I was little, I think I adored Scandal Olivia Pro. I looked up to Jessica Pearson, I looked up to from from Sue. All of us. All of us. I looked up to every single lead, strong black woman cast there was, that whatever television show was was there. Um if I can go to sleep knowing that I'm inching closer towards the woman I can be when in five years, ten years, that's what we see doing. Um spending quality time with my family. I'm super close with my family, my parents are my confidence. Um spending time with them makes me happy. Um practicing self-care. I love a massage, I love a facial. Going back into me is what I'm learning to do more instead of pouring back out. Um, being my own self is what brings me joy. I love to go to the gym. Um, I'm a part of the one playground cult, as they like to call it. Um I'm always at the gym three to four times a week, exercising the stress, the anger that build up every day.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Now I know who I'm going to do doubles um with the upcoming high rocks show.

SPEAKER_00 26:39

Yes, yeah. We have we have a lot of pent-up aggression that we can't show because we're black. That we need to get out somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

So yeah, I do that a lot. Yeah. Okay. I'm gonna need you to finish this sentence for me, okay? Okay. The world works better when women. So the sentence is the world works better when women you have to finish.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

So the world works better when women stand up for what they believe and don't inform what they feel as though they should be based on desire and patience, or whoever they bought them to desire.

SPEAKER_01 27:22

Yeah. The future is female. I believe the world would be a better place with more women in leadership and you know, in in positions of power. I think there would be a a great change. So thank you for hopping on and joining me and getting to know you a little bit better. And before we say goodbye, I need you to give advice to somebody out there, a girl who's listening, a girl who doesn't know what to do, a girl who's frustrated, feeling like they're not worthy of something, or feeling that they're, you know, they're just out of place.

SPEAKER_02 28:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:05

Um, just some words of wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Um, I would say to use your resources. Don't be afraid to ask questions. Don't be afraid to quit if something isn't for you. Don't be afraid to try again. Don't be afraid to take time for yourself. Um, because when you feel good, you perform better. If you're not feeling good, you will not perform better. Burnout is a real thing. I've seen it so many times from people I work with, from people I've studied with. You need to be able to pour into yourself. And you also need to have something outside of work that doesn't form your identity. Your identity isn't what you do, your identity isn't the value you can bring to a job. Your identity is what makes you happy. At the end of the day, if you can't go to sleep saying, I've made myself happy today, it hasn't been a good day. So prioritize yourself in everything you do because it is your life. And if you don't take control of your life, someone else will. And you don't want that. You don't want to be living for anybody else but yourself.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

That's true. Thank you so much, Trudi, for that. Thank you. I appreciate you jumping on.