How often do we consider the intersection of technology in our everyday life, or the growing importance of the construction industry in our economy? Our special guest this episode, Jeannine Martin, the new president of the Vancouver Regional Construction Association (VRCA), lends her unique insights into these fascinating topics. With her background of transitioning from the construction industry to the helm of VRCA, Jeannine brings a fresh perspective on the importance of business relationships and the advocacy for fair procurement practices.
The episode takes a deep dive into the challenges facing the construction industry, most notably in attracting and retaining skilled workers. Jeannine, along with our hosts, discusses the need to alter the perception of construction as a career and the role of programs introducing high school students to different trades. As the conversation progresses, the issue of instilling strong work ethics in the younger generation and the changing attitudes towards work and education are touched upon, bringing forth some thought-provoking insights.
In the latter part of the discussion, we explore the impact of market conditions and collaborative construction on the industry. Jeannine and our hosts reflect on the evolution of the industry and how it has become more respectful and kind. We also delve into the opportunities the industry presents for young people and the goals of VRCA. The episode concludes with a Rapid Fire Questions segment, where Jeannine shares some intriguing insights and memorable job site experiences. This conversation is sure to leave you with plenty to ponder about, and a renewed appreciation for the construction industry.
PODCAST INFO:
the Site Visit Website: https://www.sitemaxsystems.com/podcast
the Site Visit on Buzzsprout: https://thesitevisit.buzzsprout.com/269424
the Site Visit on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-site-visit/id1456494446
the Site Visit on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5cp4qJE5ExZmO3EwldN1HH
FOLLOW ALONG:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thesitevisit
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesitevisit
How often do we consider the intersection of technology in our everyday life, or the growing importance of the construction industry in our economy? Our special guest this episode, Jeannine Martin, the new president of the Vancouver Regional Construction Association (VRCA), lends her unique insights into these fascinating topics. With her background of transitioning from the construction industry to the helm of VRCA, Jeannine brings a fresh perspective on the importance of business relationships and the advocacy for fair procurement practices.
The episode takes a deep dive into the challenges facing the construction industry, most notably in attracting and retaining skilled workers. Jeannine, along with our hosts, discusses the need to alter the perception of construction as a career and the role of programs introducing high school students to different trades. As the conversation progresses, the issue of instilling strong work ethics in the younger generation and the changing attitudes towards work and education are touched upon, bringing forth some thought-provoking insights.
In the latter part of the discussion, we explore the impact of market conditions and collaborative construction on the industry. Jeannine and our hosts reflect on the evolution of the industry and how it has become more respectful and kind. We also delve into the opportunities the industry presents for young people and the goals of VRCA. The episode concludes with a Rapid Fire Questions segment, where Jeannine shares some intriguing insights and memorable job site experiences. This conversation is sure to leave you with plenty to ponder about, and a renewed appreciation for the construction industry.
PODCAST INFO:
the Site Visit Website: https://www.sitemaxsystems.com/podcast
the Site Visit on Buzzsprout: https://thesitevisit.buzzsprout.com/269424
the Site Visit on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-site-visit/id1456494446
the Site Visit on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5cp4qJE5ExZmO3EwldN1HH
FOLLOW ALONG:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thesitevisit
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thesitevisit
All right, here we go. My phone is off.
Speaker 2:So is mine.
Speaker 1:That's good, that's good. What's with the phones these days?
Speaker 2:They are everywhere and in fact I just was telling the staff last week my son had done something inappropriate at school. Anyway, the only demerit or detention I can give him is taking that phone away, and it is life-changing.
Speaker 1:It is life-changing. Yes, my daughter is. She's not too bad with the phone, but it is kind of a dysfunction.
Speaker 2:It is. I'm always trying to balance everything they say about this is the world they're coming into, but also with how healthy is it to be looking at TikTok videos for two hours a night?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it's what they're looking at, but that's another podcast.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:What I find interesting is that, well, let's talk about the fact that the human race is gonna be like a cyborg. You've heard Elon Musk saying he's gonna use neural link to be able to put that thing into your brain, so you won't actually have to speak, you can just think and the other person gets that data Right. We are kind of like that now, except we can disconnect from the thing because it's always in our hands. It is another, it's like an appendage, but some people cannot live without it.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So we are almost there, except it's really hard to input things. It's slow and that's what he's trying to fix. But Welcome to the site, visit podcast leadership and perspective from construction with your hosts, james Faulkner and Christian Ham. Business as usual, as it has been for so long. Now that it goes back to what we were talking about before and hitting the reset button. You read all the books, you read the email, you read scaling up, you read good to great you know, I could go on.
Speaker 1:I've got a place where we found the secret serum.
Speaker 2:We found secret poetry. We can get the workers in. We know where to get.
Speaker 1:Once I was on a job site put a wow and actually we had a semester concrete and I boarded like a room finish patio. Oh, friends of the site, you know what I'm saying? The guy just picked me up on LinkedIn out of the blue and said he was driving from Oklahoma to Dallas to meet with me because he heard the favorite connect platform on your guys' podcast Own it, crush it and love it and we celebrate these values every single day, live from the site and studio in Yellow Mountain.
Speaker 1:Let's get down to it. So here we are at the site of the podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me and thank you for having VRCA.
Speaker 1:Jeanine Martin, is it Martin? Or Martin Martin? It's French. Ah, martin, yes, ah, jeanine Martin is it? That is it.
Speaker 2:It is a little bit closer to the way my grandmother would have said it.
Speaker 1:So is that French, Canadian or French?
Speaker 2:Actually French, Canadian and French from France. Okay, nice, nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we are Julian Lavey at SiteMax, from France. He's from the town, is called Lavey, it's near Chamonix. So, he's like from the Alps.
Speaker 2:Very nice.
Speaker 1:It's a very exotic type of person to have at a company. Right, it does sound exotic yeah he used to work for a ski jacket company.
Speaker 2:Oh, does he have a fabulous accent.
Speaker 1:It is. It's a very good accent. Okay, so let's get into you. So you're the new president of VRCA, and so how's that feeling?
Speaker 2:It feels fantastic. I feel so lucky to have had the need of the organization align perfectly with my need for a change and it just seemed like it was heaven sent and the perfect fit.
Speaker 1:So how did it? I mean, do you mind sharing how, the sort of the prospect of you even joining? How did that go down?
Speaker 2:Yes, glad to share, actually, because it's kind of a funny story. So I knew Will Poga, who is the chair this year from Southwest Contracting.
Speaker 1:I know Will very well, oh, very nice, hello Will.
Speaker 2:Hi, will. Anyway, I read a press release that said that Will would be the acting president and was doing the executive search for the position, and so, since I knew him through business, I just sent him a note saying hey, will, I did this twice. So I was on the board for ACBC the engineers council and twice, while I was on the board, we recruited a president, and so I did this twice for ACBC. If you need any assistance or anything, let me know. I can tell you what we did. And then Will emailed me back and said why can't you be the voice of construction? And I thought ha ha, ha, ha. Yeah, I got that.
Speaker 2:And then I went to sleep that night and I woke up in the morning and I thought why can't I be the voice of construction? And so I sent him an email and said I'd like to officially register my interest in this position, and I passed on my resume and anyway, and then the rest happened from there.
Speaker 1:That's pretty cool story. Like I think Will is. He's a very strong guy.
Speaker 2:Like is he? The ex-cop or something I think he was a police officer. I think he was a rugby coach and a rugby player. I mean, if you've seen Will, this doesn't surprise you. He's kind of a big guy and he's just gotten a new profile picture which we have hanging in the boardroom at VRCA and it is very fierce looking, he's an awesome guy. Fantastic.
Speaker 1:So that's cool. So you, when you were at, were you a Carlson before this?
Speaker 2:I was yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1:And so you basically just sort of transitioned out of that. And then was it the construction business in general in terms of not being on the association side. How has that changed? Been for you and obviously you were a part of the construction round table.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So I mean, you sort of dipped your foot in that kind of thing and then now you're all in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I've worked in construction and engineering for more than 20 years.
Speaker 2:I've always loved the industry. I can remember the first job I applied for in engineering was for a marketing position and I thought, oh, this is fantastic. I will now go and have this marketing job where I will take people out to lunch and they will buy services from me, and it's going to be perfect. Now it's, you know, 23 or 24. At the time it wasn't quite what that job was. It turned out to be much more longer hours and doing putting out proposals and things like that than I had actually realized, but it was still turned into a really good gig and I always think back.
Speaker 2:The thing I love the most about the industry are the people. They're fantastic. So both engineering and construction are fantastic. So, transitioning to the association, I think one of the key things that I brought that the board thought was of value is my industry knowledge and my knowledge of how construction companies operate and how they secure work and how they interact with clients and you know how they increase their staff and things like that, and so I think that was a good fit. And then, of course, my business development background I think is a great fit for recognizing the needs of our members and trying to figure out how to meet them.
Speaker 2:So it's been a pretty seamless transition for me. There's certainly new things. You know. Managing the overall budget for the organization and essentially running my own company has been a bit of a different change, as at Carlson I was the vice president of business development, and same with Coey, so I had a department, not necessarily the whole operation. So now I don't have to wait for someone else to make the decisions. I actually get to make them and I have a whole new respect for all the people that I've worked for before when they have not made a decision as quickly as I would like, because I recognize we're balancing a lot of factors when you make those.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean there's a lot in there so I guess. So sales like BizDev and marketing together must be like quite a great arrow to have in your arsenal in terms of. I always say it's like we're all in sales, it doesn't matter if you're in engineering or not, or you're in marketing or you're in support, to get ideas to your colleagues and to move the puck down the ice. You kind of have to sell people on ideas all the time. So influencing people, being able to get people to see your point of view, that's probably so far been helpful, I would think.
Speaker 2:It is helpful, but I actually think the foundation of it all is relationships.
Speaker 2:So I definitely believe that business is relationship based and there's many great books in business, but one of my favorite is Harry Beckwith Selling the Invisible, and I think one of the quotes in the book or one that he has three very popular books that I enjoy, but anyway is people, all things being equal, people like to deal with their friends.
Speaker 2:All things not being equal, people still like to deal with their friends, and so I think about that a lot in the relationship building, both from a business development perspective and then now for VRCA. We will build relationships to move this organization forward. We're not gonna take, we're going to build a foundation that then we can propel the industry forward with and some of the things we're doing as we're getting out, working our advocacy, aligning ourselves with all the municipalities in the lower mainland, making sure they know who we are and that we're here to help, and we wanna help make sure that the procurement, procurement approaches are working for both sides, that they're getting good bids for their contracts, which comes from good procurement. So we think we have sort of a win-win position here for VRCA to help.
Speaker 1:Well, so in terms of like, how involved, when you say advocacy, like how involved can you get? I mean, is it just more of a proposition of ideas or do you have any particular levers you can pull for leverage to make people do the things they do?
Speaker 2:Well, that's an interesting question and maybe you can't answer all of that, but no, I'm teasing. You know we were just in Ottawa a couple of weeks ago with the Canadian Construction Association 100 industry professionals from across Canada, several from BC, to meet with legislators and ministers of parliament or members of sorry members of parliament to talk about construction. And you know that construction is the engine of the economy and you know pushing for legislation that supports construction, many things which you would be aware of, like prompt payment and a fair and transparent procurement and things like that. And one of the facts that we shared was, of course, that construction is 7.4% of Canada's GDP, second only to like oil and gas. So when you ignore construction and the issues that face construction, that is impacting everything, the whole economy. And so we were just having that dialogue with in Ottawa a couple of weeks ago. So, locally, I would say that advocating we do is more, again, like we said, building that foundation to talk about procurement.
Speaker 2:And then, for instance, recently we met with a community that said I need some help, I've had a couple of bids that have come way out of whack of our plan. What can you do for me? And so, of course we'll dig in a bit more with them now and try to understand the overall issue that's happening there. And so levers no advice. Yes, technical and professional advice on what is happening with them is happening.
Speaker 2:You know you recently had Katie Fairley on here. Certainly if a municipality or a government agency or anyone actually comes out with a procurement that looks like it's not going to benefit the owner with great bids because of things that are in that, we will proactively reach out and talk to them about it and see if we can get any change happening. We just recently there was an owner who had a 90-day validity period on the bid and we had a conversation with them that said that this is going to increase the bids because of this. We prefer to see 30. They reduced it to 60. We still consider that success. However, we advise them that they would be paying for that longer term.
Speaker 1:Wow. So yeah, it definitely seems that in a way you're kind of the almost like the ethics police. You know the good business police, the handcuffs, you know Without handcuffs, yeah, organs.
Speaker 2:Again, going back to that whole relationship, like with a good relationship, they can call us, we can help, we can tell them the implications of choices they're making. On both sides. Right, and I would say we support. We don't tell anyone what to do. We give our best scenario based on what the situation is.
Speaker 1:I see, ok, so I've got a bunch of questions.
Speaker 2:Oh yay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so this being like the second position essentially within an organization, that's not like the business, business with the construction roundtable. How different is VRCA than that? And sort of what's the? Do you feel like you have more impact? Do you like what's? What are your thoughts Like? Oh, this was kind of like before, but not really.
Speaker 2:So I am actually still on the board of the British Columbia construction roundtable. And maybe just to clarify the Vancouver Regional Construction Association is a 12-person organization with 750 construction company and companies related to construction members, and we have 12 full-time people who work on that, Whereas construction roundtable is a personal membership. It has about I think there are about 250 members now I see OK, and it's like a volunteer job.
Speaker 1:Oh, I see.
Speaker 2:OK, certainly something you do because we're committed to the industry and looking at providing programming that is helpful to business, both construction consulting and everything that's impacted there for construction roundtable. So I think a big difference is VRCA is in fact an advocacy and the impact and the efforts are much larger than construction roundtable. It's a different kind of target market. The people may be similar but VRCA attracts member companies and we look to develop the full company and the business opportunities of the full company and construction roundtable maybe is more specific in industry education and very deliberate about not advocating.
Speaker 2:So, and construction roundtable is able to have members both from the owner's side and from the owner's consultant's any related business, because you're never going to be offside, because you're not advocating for anything. I shouldn't say it like that. But we try to create dialogue on industry topics and not necessarily take a position.
Speaker 1:I see, Just to round off you and your background and everything. Did you grow up here?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:Where'd you grow up?
Speaker 2:I didn't, I'm.
Speaker 1:American, you're American.
Speaker 2:It's true I usually like to caveat that with not a Trump supporter, but we moved here in 2010. So we've been here for about 13 years. I remember it so well because we flew up here on July 4th, which seems sort of funny Independence Day in America. We flew up here, so I was recruited to come and work for a company called Bucklin and Taylor and which eventually was named Koey, to be their director of business development. So I was married to a Canadian and we had a young son and it just seemed like life is for living. Let's go see what Vancouver has to offer.
Speaker 1:Nice, that's pretty good. Yeah, that's a. You have to say the T word, but that was good. The Trump word, that's OK, that's OK. So maybe just a personal thing what's your favorite song from back in the day? What was your.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, for back in the day. So I was. Interestingly, I was just on another podcast called Safety Debris and their whole. It's a conversation around people in the industry, but it's all about from your playlist.
Speaker 1:Oh nice.
Speaker 2:And so I had several of my songs played on there, but certainly one of the ones that's been going around in our house now is Milky Chance. Do you know?
Speaker 1:this Milky Chance. Do you remember them?
Speaker 2:Milky Chance, so, or Dave Matthews bland. Oh yeah, dave Matthews, these are all like favorites of mine Certainly Cat Stevens, which is before my time but still loved.
Speaker 1:So Nice, that's cool. So I've got another question what do you think thinking about construction? You're obviously now the position that you're in. What do you think are the big issues in construction, especially the BRCA Vancouver? What are the things that we are struggling with as an organization, as an industry?
Speaker 2:So none of my answers will be surprising to you, of course, attracting people to the industry, attracting people to construction, is a huge problem or a huge challenge for the industry.
Speaker 2:So both from attracting people out of school into construction, with keeping people in Vancouver working in construction, both field and office to effective application or utilization of immigrants with skills, both skilled trades and professionals who come into Canada, I would say that is one of the biggest issues we have. So our population continues to grow. Our ability to get things built gets slower and slower and more and more expensive. So it's sort of this wheel where we can't get enough people to build the things we need that no one else can afford the affordability crisis. Everything is wrapped into there, so there are many pieces to that puzzle. Anyway, workforce development and attracting people into construction careers is definitely something that needs to be emphasized, and so a couple of things we're doing which may be worth mentioning is our workforce development group is working with the Burnaby Board of Trade, Burnaby Works program and BCIT to develop a program that brings kids into BCIT for hands-on training on the tools.
Speaker 1:I see.
Speaker 2:OK. So the idea is, on professional development days we will provide this opportunity and the target market is grades 10 through 12 to come to BCIT and try different trades and hands-on, even niche trades so from carpentry to plumbing to electrical and have their hands on that to see if they feel a spark, to see if they feel like that's something they're interested in and then also in development is how to keep them engaged until the time comes where they are entering the workforce or they're looking at an apprenticeship or otherwise. So that's a program that's in its early stages now but we hope to be rolling out very soon.
Speaker 1:So what's the age bracket target for that program?
Speaker 2:Grade 10 to 12.
Speaker 1:10 to 12, OK.
Speaker 2:It's also recognized that much of this conversation needs to be had, not just with the students but with the parents, and really creating that construction is a fantastic career for someone and construction can be a path to a fantastic lifestyle. And there's many jokes about this that the plumber is the one who owns his home. These are things that happen and so recognizing that there are some areas of construction and some of the publicity that construction gets isn't fantastic. There are some really good sides to construction, including the ability to live a fantastic life, to have our partners, bcca, have this fantastic advertising program for construction entering in the field of construction, which is just pictures of people mountain biking and mountain climbing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I saw them. I've seen those.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's pretty and I think the message there is you can have any life you want, and if you go into the trades you will have time to follow your passions and do other things too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting Because I had one of the things I wanted to chat with you about was the brand of construction in terms of the employer brand, its reputation. So when you were talking about the ages in grade 10 to 12, so my daughter had this school newsletter that we got and she's in grade 10. And it was about a workshop that was going to be done for introducing construction to high school kids, and so I found the person who was coordinating that and we're just working out the questions like we have here for them to come on this podcast and chat with them about, because I'm an ex-branding strategist. That's what I used to do in my everyone's had these multiple careers, but that's what I used to do. So I used to do employer value propositions for big banks. So Manulife cooperators I did. Harvey's restaurants had to get people to work, to want to even make burgers Not easy. So I'm very interested in this.
Speaker 1:Being in construction in the software side and then using my old hat on and just thinking about what does it need? What are the things? When you said that it's going to require a different mind shift with parents, that really is the key to it. For some reason, there is the. I think everyone understands and I think we can really sell the end goal of yes, you'll own your home eventually. But there's still the people who have to get up at 6.30 in the morning. They have to be out in the cold. There's this. It's rough and tumble for many people Because for every one office person or two office people, you've got 30 people outside. So I think that there is some. I think a world event will change something.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think, because the issue is I mean, you probably hear about this on probably every podcast you can possibly listen to about you know, the West is kind of getting soft. We want, you know, we're very spoiled as a culture. No one wants to do anything difficult. People want to be a TikToker, they want to be a YouTuber. They, you know the youth doesn't realize how much work it actually takes and the income gap that we have from people who are starting a job versus, you know, people who are maybe in your position, your position, my position, it's a different ball game. But if you want to try, and even at $60,000 a year trying to live downtown, it's not happening. So we have, as you said, we have an issue with the time horizon, that when does the plumber get to own the house and how is it 10 years before I get to do that? Is it where I think the youth is thinking in one year chunks?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And they want it in one year. So I think time, the perspective of time will be, is something that needs to be explained, to basically compress that and realize how much, how fast time does go. And then that's first thing is this time horizon paradigm to some way to change that and get that across. Secondly, there is when I was saying that it might need a world event. I don't know how this is gonna happen, but something is gonna have to teach us that we need to be a little more tough mentally, as in you actually do have to work for the things that you're gonna get. You do actually have to. You can't just virtue you where your way around the planet and expect to get somewhere. You actually have to work and show up and do things.
Speaker 1:Construction is a fantastic environment of meritocracy and the reason is is because, at the end of the day, something's either in front of you built or it's not. It's a results based job. There's nothing soft about it. The structure is either there and I did that, or it's not there and I didn't do it. So it's a really great lesson, and or I shouldn't say culture, but more of a culture, is really the bad word. The right word is gonna come in. What is it? It's more like a. It's an environment that fosters reality all the time.
Speaker 2:Sue, I love that you've said this and I'll I have two stories to tell related to this. So my son is in ninth grade and he is in. Woodworking and textiles are two of the classes that he's in. So recently he brought home a folding stool that he made a class. He's so proud of this.
Speaker 2:He put in the work and, like you said, there is actually something to show for it. It's not a math test, it's not something else. There's actually something that now resides under our window and holds our books right Like we. You could sit on it, but I just put some books to try to make it a pretty thing. Anyway, I also remember once when I was younger and I was dating a carpenter and he was installing a new door at my house and my friend came over and she said that would make me swoon if my husband could do that. Anyway, like the fact that he had this skill that he could do. So I think you point out something correct, like having something at the end of the day, to show for what you've done, and you're right that I don't know about this world event that you're referring to.
Speaker 1:I don't want it to happen, by the way. No, it's not. I'm not advocating for it.
Speaker 2:But I think you're right about the timeline and the expectations. You know I joke sometimes that my son doesn't know the difference between a dollar or a million dollars, like it's all just there. And whether that's my bad parenting or the life we live or what's happening, I keep trying to figure out how to get that reality that. You know, I often say to him please sweep the patio for me. And he will argue with me forever about sweeping the patio. And I said you realize that if you had a job today making minimum wage, you know essentially I will give you $15 to sweep the patio for one hour. Like the thought of that. He can't even comprehend him being out there for an hour doing that to make $15. When this is the reality he's gonna face when he goes out to get, you know, his first job in high school or college. But trying to get that reality into him, I'm not sure how to do that.
Speaker 1:Do you think that we did? We do this as parents.
Speaker 2:I keep wondering what was the difference when I was growing up? Or has the world just changed so much that you know? Maybe my parents felt the same way about me.
Speaker 1:I try and think whether or not that's the case and I don't know. I think back to like the first jobs that I had. I remember being a dishwasher.
Speaker 2:I bust tables at the local Mexican restaurant Absolutely At 15,. I even think I lied to get the job.
Speaker 1:Mexican restaurant. Let's go and have some ugly leftovers. Plates are pretty ugly, guacamole does not look good after. But I remember just going you know what this isn't for me. And I remember taking, you know, the little rambicans of mustard and that smell in hot water. God, that's just terrible. So I you know, but the thing is is that you know I started my business when I was 20.
Speaker 2:Wow, you know like.
Speaker 1:I and so, and I think that I mean I'm Gen X, so it's kind of like a we were provided the what do they call them latchkey kids. They basically were just given the key, like your parents were both working and you kind of just did what. I learned how to cook by myself, cause you know they weren't. It wasn't my mom Okay, hope she's not listening to this she did make meals for us.
Speaker 1:Okay, so I wasn't like neglected, but I think there's something there about the now we've. We have, I think, pandered and tried to cater to our children to the point where they don't really know how to do anything by themselves.
Speaker 2:I think you might be right.
Speaker 1:So back to construction. We had to figure out how I mean. But the thing is is that I always try and do this. So you know, as I said, you know the, you know the branding experience. What brand people do is they basically go factor-based thinking and you have to unpeel the onion all the way until it gets to that core. And the core is these problems we're talking about. The core is why, what's this apathy to hard work? Like there's just no. So people think, oh, okay, so construction okay. So let's just, let's just say the you bring like a guy and a girl to a, to this orientation, to show them how to use tools, okay. So they're both in there thinking, oh, this is kind of fun, there's kind of an element of curiosity, they get to learn something. And then they realize, okay, well, hang on a sec, do I want to subscribe on a weekly, monthly, yearly basis to this program, not the program of learning, the program of life and construction? So I'd like to find out, how do we make it cool? That's to me. When I say cool, I mean how do we? Okay, I'm gonna get into some conceptual stuff here, so let me know if I'm boring you. So there is something that I've always called the two point lift. Okay, and this is.
Speaker 1:These days we are really attached to our identity of who we are. Religion is an all time low. The new brand now is me. What am I like? What do people see me? What is my thing?
Speaker 1:This isn't me talking, this is the general public, and especially the youth, is like what do I attach myself to? That's why you see these. You've seen, I'm not gonna get into the specifics, but I'm just gonna blanket statement. You've seen protests over the past five years. It's protest du jour, it's the one, it's the new one, the new one. What can I attach my identity to? To virtue myself? So what we end up with, we end up with how do I increase my credibility out in the world, to my friends, to my peers, to the people I think matter? So there's something called the two point lift, and the two point lift basically means if I feel like a five out of 10, it could be how I my appearance, it could be my self-esteem, it could be any of those things I'm gonna do anything to increase it. Two points to feel better about myself, if a career being attached to something like in construction, if we can attach a two point lift to working in that industry. We've got them all.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:I know it's a little bit obscure, can?
Speaker 2:you use. Can you example it for me?
Speaker 1:I can give you a perfect example. So the makeup world with women. See a picture. You go if I have this mascara, if I have, I'm gonna feel better, and I'm gonna feel better out in the world. Because it's a myth, it's just an idea.
Speaker 1:So, when it comes to always talk about with people with their careers and the barbecue talk. Let's say you meet somebody at a barbecue and you don't know them and you say so, you know, are you from here or are you? You know what do you do for work? I work at X. Now, if it's like I work for Lululemon or I work for Amazon or I work for Google or Apple or any of these names that add the lift for them it's instant credibility.
Speaker 1:If they say you say you work for these companies, now if you can attach I work for this in construction, if that means I get a special rate on a mortgage because the government has done that for construction, if the company I work for has a program that it does some I don't have all the answers, but if we can give construction people something you can't get in any other industry, then the lift starts because now you are part of this club, this club of oh, in order to get that, you have to be in construction. So you're one of those. So you were able to work. Yeah, well, I went and I learned how to make X and I went to trade school and yeah, so now I'm in.
Speaker 2:Well, I love that idea actually, but one of the things that I think about a lot is that I think the way my child and future children will live their lives are going to be different than the way I lived mine. My son will never sit behind a desk pushing around paper all day. He will not. That is not the kind of life that they are not going to be driven by this eight to five schedule of producing something that someone else moves on to someone else, that moves on to someone else. Right, and I'm not suggesting what I do isn't valuable. I think it is, but I think the whole attitude towards life and what work-life balance looks like and how people want to spend their time is changing.
Speaker 2:And so I was driven. I couldn't wait to put on a suit and have an office and manage things and be a visionary. I was so excited for this. I definitely, at the age of 23, was wearing a suit that was for a 45-year-old woman. I couldn't wait for this life and he is not thinking that way and he absolutely will not live this life, and I couldn't be happier for him. Everyone should have their own dream, but I think the whole attitude towards that is changing. We no longer respect everyone who says I shouldn't say that, we respected them before, but we're no longer impressed by the person who's just so, so busy and working so, so hard and missing their kids' soccer games and not being able to go on vacation. That's no longer like the cool factor it used to be if it ever was really like that, but you know, that was sort of impressive like wow, they're really in demand and they're able to do it. I don't think we look at it the same way.
Speaker 2:I think, in fact, we're like well, you really could manage that if you could like the good person manages that.
Speaker 2:So they're not as stretched, they're not so that the pride doesn't go with that anymore. The pride needs to go with the living an authentic life and doing things that are valuable to you and to others and things, and I think that shift is actually happening. I think that's the way kids now will come out, and Craig and I were just debating this on the way over here today about how. I even think that you know and there's some things written on this about how a college education is going to change. If you're an engineer or a doctor, then absolutely you need all of that college so that you can learn how to do those things. Many other professions probably don't require a college degree. They require quite a bit of aptitude, the ability to learn, which I think is a lot of what college gives you. So I think that shift is potentially going to happen too, and it goes back to even what you said about the time investment and the attention span of the future.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah, it's interesting you say that the individual I was talking to, who was doing that workshop at the high school. He told me a story. It's just kind of interesting. He said they put this newsletter out and he had a mother find his phone number and call him and was irate and said how could you advocate for the fact that my son is not going to be going to college and you want him to work out in the cold and in the mud? My son is not working in construction Like he's. Like I said, we have to change this, like this idea of why is this? Why is building something and having-.
Speaker 2:Why is building something not the sexiest thing you could do? I know? I was shy, it's definitely a factor there.
Speaker 1:It really got to me that somebody and that's really not about the child, that's about the virtuous thing of the parent saying I need to XYZ so that I can actually have a glass of shard and a tonight and not have any guilt. It's something else going on there. I don't know what it is, but it's really annoying.
Speaker 2:Well, maybe that's what the two times. Maybe we should start a new mantra like how to make construction sexy again. Exactly, we're bringing sexy back.
Speaker 1:Exactly A little Justin Timberlake. So what else? I mean those main issues. Obviously the labor component costs are another huge thing especially in Vancouver.
Speaker 2:Prom payment, as which we advocate for at the national level and many provinces actually have prom payment in Ontario? Yes, we don't have an NBC yet we should. It's needed.
Speaker 1:So what is the resistance there? For that, I mean, are you? I mean there are some general contractors that literally run their business on someone else's dollar, Correct, I mean? And that's just our opinion.
Speaker 2:Of course, I haven't seen those figures, but yeah, Well, I mean we definitely see that theory behind it.
Speaker 2:I think I go back to the fact that this is an important. This topic is not does not seem to be of importance to the current administration, given what construction does for the economy is very concerning to us, and so it's been table. It's been put on the back burner a couple of times, allegedly this summer, was it this summer? There was supposed to be a round table. Premier EB's organization was going to put together a round table to discuss this issue. I don't think that's happened yet. It's been put on hold.
Speaker 2:We are definitely anxious to see this move and we think it's relevant. If you think of we hand to do that stack pack, so 90% of construction companies are under 20 people. How long do you think they can go without being paid? And this is the engine of the economy can't depend on being paid within 30 days. How is somebody supposed to survive in that environment? And there are implications to this absolutely with was the work delivered, et cetera, and there are things that can be put in place to support that, and Katie probably talked about this when you guys met.
Speaker 2:So, it's an important topic for our members absolutely.
Speaker 1:Do you think that there are? There's market conditions that drive all of this stuff. So when you think of the customer for instance the owner who is hiring the general contractor or the owner developer they have their own pressures of draws and when they can get their money, interest rates don't help at all. Everything, every moment is expensive. So you can have, for instance, an inexperienced developer who's hired a general contractor. That can literally sink the general contractor Correct Pretty quick. I mean the 5% margin if they're lucky on a project. I just don't, that's such little money to play with. I mean there are many general contractors that will do a job and literally they just paid for materials in their labor.
Speaker 1:They didn't actually make any money on top of that. So it's like making a sandwich at a sandwich shop and buying the bread for $2 and selling it for $2. I mean, it's no fun.
Speaker 2:It's definitely. It's a tough market and it's tough for companies to figure out how to do business properly and certainly we wouldn't want anyone building their business model on the backs of someone else failing. So of course, we're seeing much more times of more collaborative contracting, where everyone I used to say I don't have to lose for you to win, where we can look at this together and figure out where the risk is and figure out how we're willing to manage that and how we can share that. I think there's more discussion along those lines going on these days.
Speaker 2:I did ponder a little bit on a progressive design build, which is one delivery model that's being used these days. Is there's an agreed upon profit margin on that delivery model? And I thought are you taking the entrepreneurial nature out of construction if you do that? Anyway, all thoughts, I still think it's moving in the right direction and these are absolutely the things that we should be doing to figure out where I don't have to lose for you to win. Just the owner shouldn't consider winning, not paying the contractor what it takes for them to survive. That's not the way it should go.
Speaker 1:I've probably said this statement at least 200 times since doing the podcast. But the hard part about construction is the minute that everybody has signed off on everything, from every single trade, everyone's pricing. The developer has or the owner developer everything signed off that the minute it starts it's changed.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:That's why it's so hard, because rain changes people's profit margins.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and this is where it go back to then. This is not the answer to that, but certainly would help. Relationships matter and having that conversation as soon as it happens, recognizing this is gonna happen, the relationships and the collaborative nature of some of these things like this is, of course, personal opinion of how to help some of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so would you say that construction in general is less or more adversarial than it used to be?
Speaker 2:I don't know that it's either. It may be the same. I'm not sure that I could. Probably. I don't know that I know the answer to that.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'd have to survey more members to understand. I do see that definitely with the change towards more collaborative contracting you would think the switch would happen. I think previously I used to joke about this with the construction round table. We just had three contractors on the board out of 14, 16 people and I said that's because contractors in general aren't collaborative, so why would we join the construction round table to talk about collaboration? I think that's changing for sure, but I don't I probably haven't been involved directly on enough things to comment whether it's more or less adversarial. I definitely think the thoughts around and certainly one of the hallmarks of the BRCA is facilitating connections for business and I think that goes a long way to creating a less adversarial environment and a more collaborative, certainly within our own membership.
Speaker 1:I would probably say that over time, I would say it's become less adversarial, mostly because the we have a lot of anti-bullying stuff. We have all this stuff these days which are basically boxing gloves for fighting. I mean, the reason that boxing gloves exist is so you don't wreck your hands, it's not the other way around. So they have this. There's cotton wool everywhere to make sure that people are decent to each other to some degree. It's only really when things sort of everything starts going sideways that the attitudes start happening.
Speaker 1:But in terms of the, the collaborative side, I've seen a lot of companies being a lot nicer to each other, rather than because they're all in competition. What depends, obviously, from sector to sector a lot in competition, but events like the events that you guys have, for instance, like your launching coming up, you got your CLF and what's the day to CLF again?
Speaker 2:May two to four.
Speaker 1:Okay yeah, and I mean that's just an amazing experience for everyone to sort of hang out and just get to know each other, that relationship building of being away somewhere else. So you don't, maybe years ago fights might have broken.
Speaker 2:I don't know, but like hey on that job.
Speaker 1:You did this. How about who knows how adversarial things used to be? Sure, if I, when I always think of construction in the old old days, I always think of those guys balancing on that beam building the Empire State Building. Remember that. We've seen that famous.
Speaker 2:I think about what it was like then with no, steel toe boots and leather shoes Not tied off in any way. Not tied off exactly.
Speaker 1:So it must have been more like that and even back in the days of New York, kind of totally into this mob stuff recently, like watching, like how the mob, how the mob control construction in New York in the 80s. But yeah, I'm sure compared to then, we've had this ramp of the way people treat each other. There's obviously much better now, cause we're all so nice now.
Speaker 2:Well, I think we're nicer, but I do still think you know everybody's protecting their profit margin. But again, going back to the key, I think, is the relationship, because hopefully, if something's going wrong, you're actually picking up the phone and calling someone and saying, hey, I don't think this is going right, what can we do about it? And I'm sure in some situations that conversation goes well and sometimes it doesn't. And for sure there's been times when I've been involved in projects that have, you know, not gone as well as planned and the outreach to the client was so late that you couldn't fix it. And that's why I think the relationships and the collaboration and the facilitating connections are so important, because maybe next time we won't leave it too long so that you can't repair it, because there's enough dialogue happening all the time that you can get back to, even if you might say yeah.
Speaker 1:So I want to chat a little bit about something that might affect that and has been affecting things for a number of years, and that is technology and construction. We all have done this, we've all texted somebody, and then they get back to see you know that text you sent me. What do you mean by that? It's like well, I didn't mean it that way. How you read it. So there's context around.
Speaker 1:The problem is when we have, you know, me being a software business, and we started to have AI involved and there is more objective information going from place to place and it has no you know when you write it. Let's say, you write an email and you want to get something achieved, okay, well, this is the old adage if you want something, one part vinegar, two parts sugar Well, ai's not doing that. Ai's gonna be like here's this thing, here's the number, here's the problem. There's no like oh, there's no smoothing it over, there's any of that sort of stuff. So I think, as we see, that more do you think that technology is going to do, we need some offsets in order to attach the human element to respect and collaboration and relationships on top of that, in order to make that work.
Speaker 2:Well, Sue, that's a very complex question and so my I used to say all the time if you want to get to, yes, make a phone call, don't send an email or a text. Now I get the more we move into now where, like texting and email, like this is you can't call until midnight and you got to get your job done, and so much of this is happening. So I try to be very deliberate, certainly in my own communication of making sure I'm not too short and making sure I am. Is that coming across the way I'm planning? And I'm not always perfect, not always great at it, but I certainly try. Do we need more of that? Probably, or do we need more of relationship based in a way that I've given you the benefit of the doubt, based on, like the message. I could read it two ways, but I am not going to because I know you and I know you wouldn't send me a text or an email like that. That wasn't like that. Whatever negative connotation I'm reading isn't the way you intend it. So maybe there's a balance on both sides and I will say it's funny.
Speaker 2:I made a mistake when I originally came to VRCA. I had an exchange with a young man from our young construction leaders group where he sent me an email to which it sort of I was like my second week and I thought who is he to tell me what to do? And I texted or I emailed back and I said I'm not sure I enjoy the tone of your email and words, words. Anyway, he called me immediately and said I'm so sorry. And I thought afterwards I thought you're the grown up here, janine, why did you do that? This poor young man, like he, didn't. It came across wrong and I didn't give him the benefit of the doubt. So I had to remind myself most people are not trying to get you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know I struggle with that. I always read stuff. I'm like what Did you think before you wrote this Like? But it is interesting when you see what is happening in technology and we had interviewed the guys from Super Droids, the robotics company. They basically they have the robots that go out and they mark up the slab and it's all automatic. One good thing I think we have going for us in the construction industry is and this dovetails into what we were talking about you know, the attracting people to construction is it's getting less dirty day by day thanks to robotics. So have you seen it? I forget what movie it was, but there are. Essentially, we can get to a point where we are controlling machines and we're not there.
Speaker 2:Yes, like bomb diffusing and things like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so essentially, the robots on site there's very few people there that this is just wired and it's camera based. You know people are joysticking that thing from somewhere else. You know I look at things like shock creed. Have you seen whether they're spraying shock creed on the side of a big hole and because of big high rises going in there and this standing in mud, I'm thinking, god, this has got to change. There's got to be a way that like you know, humans aren't sitting in this stuff.
Speaker 2:Well, as we see, technology is impacting every area of everything, so it wouldn't be surprising for that to continue, and so maybe you know the future jobs and construction are technology jobs.
Speaker 1:So this is okay. So this is the other part of the lift. Uh-oh, okay, this is the good part.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:Because this construction is the last bastion of upcoming technology that everyone can be a part of. Like. If you want to get into AI right now, I guess go for it. There are days when the Googles were just starting. There were days when the Apples were going through their evolution to the new era that Apple had when the iPhone came out. That saved the company. There's Amazon. When Jeff Bezos was sitting, you know, and he was just trying to sell books, construction is, and now you see those companies trillion dollar valuation companies. This is where we are. This is the opportunity for people young now is to find the technology of root, of what they want to be doing later. This really is the opportunity right now. I think as an industry, we need to frame that and get people to see the vision, because all they see right now is I will be doing what I see today for 10 years. That's not what you're going to be doing.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:It's not. We have an amazing site of where things can go. The problem is that it's difficult for robotics and for automation. Like manufacturing is easy because the factory floor never changes unless you change the product. You know you change your tooling and you do that. The construction job is an ever changing landscape from day to day to day, because something gets built Right.
Speaker 2:you have to be nimble.
Speaker 1:Well, it's just it's constantly changing because it's growing, like you're, in manufacturing, that doesn't happen. So that's why you see all the automation. You know, we've seen it since the 80s cars like putting the hood on, and we've seen this, this manufacturing automation that's been happening. We will see that in construction. It's just going to take longer. But we need people, smart minds and the energy of the youth to get us there. Like I don't want to be, do I want to be doing this in 10 years, trying to drag construction into the modern world.
Speaker 2:No, and look how long it takes the young people do. It Takes a long time for adoption. We are not early adopters, that's for sure.
Speaker 1:So I think you know, in terms of some of the, is that just VRC ideas? I don't know. Maybe there is like some crazy visionary people who we can bring in to talk to say this is They've been thinking about how construction could look Five years from now. We're gonna see and it might be interesting to to Hypothesize how that could be. So we do have technology on our side in terms of getting people interested in in construction in general. All right, so Lastly, okay.
Speaker 2:I know that we're.
Speaker 1:I just kind of want to know what do you want to achieve now being here at VRC? Like what are you like? You know what? If I get in there, I'm gonna x, yz right.
Speaker 2:What order this I?
Speaker 1:mean doesn't have to be. It could be one thing sure.
Speaker 2:So I think the key here is it's not about what I want to achieve. It's about what our members want to achieve, or what we wanted, what the members want to happen with the organization or what the board wants to happen. So this position, of course, answers to the board, and some of the things that the board would like, which of course, align with you know what I would see as a future for the organization are Raising our profile. There's no reason why, when something is is going on in the lower mainland Construction related that VRC a shouldn't be a part of the conversation, whether it be, as you've been talking, about technology, permit issues, housing, all these things. Government should be coming to us to talk about. What does construction think? What can we do? How can we work together to get this done? You know, just going back to the metrics we showed before, construction is a huge part of the economy. We gave you our stat pack like we are dry. We should be driving many of these things, and when I say driving like collaborating, at least invited to talk about it. And so I think the board felt like VRC had lost some ground In that area, needed to raise the profile back to being that go-to place for answers and Collaboration on things that are needed in the industry.
Speaker 2:In addition, I think the RCA is so successful. The events have been successful, people, the members, are really committed to the organization. So what are we doing to make sure that we're continuing to elevate our game to meet the needs of construction? So you referred to the construction leadership forum. That is a very successful annual VRCA event. I think that's a key place where we need to continue to be elevating our offering to appeal to construction leaders, or that's targeted at mid-level leaders, elevating our offering, and the only way to do that is to actually recognize what needs to be done, both from the member perspective and then from the industry perspective and workforce development. Construction leadership forms part of that. But in addition, you know, what are we doing to develop the leaders of tomorrow and what are the things that they need to help their companies be successful? If, indeed, 90% of construction companies are 20 people and under, we are depending on entrepreneurs to continue to build the construction environment, and so how are we helping those companies Develop their people? Because if you're a 20-person company or a 10-person company, you don't have the time or the resources to develop in-house programs for everything that you might come across, and so VRCA fills a real niche there. But I think that has to contain we can't just keep offering the same things. We have to continue to elevate that offering to meet those needs.
Speaker 2:And then, you know, women and underrepresented groups in construction are important to me, you know, and important to everyone, so I shouldn't act like that's a me thing, it's. You know. Equity, diversity and inclusion are key. They're key to leadership. They're key to having diverse opinions make for better business and make for more satisfying business situations. One of the things that I'm hoping, through some of the things that we have planned in the coming years, are, you know, to show some representation and sponsorship for those groups. So you know they. When you can see someone who looks like you doing a job you might like to have, it's easier to imagine yourself in that role. And then I think we talk a lot about mentoring.
Speaker 2:But we need more than advice. Women and other groups need more than advice. They need sponsorship, they need stretch assignments, they need to be pushed forward for things rather than waiting till they get better, waiting till they achieve some Some mark of achievement. You know we we see a lot of data on this, where, you know, a man is More likely to apply for a job where he has two of the ten qualifications and a woman will wait till she has ten of the ten. So we need to do a better job of pushing those people forward and giving them stretch assignments and Creating an environment where they can succeed. And then, you know, along with that it comes a bit more. You know it's not just the sponsorship, it's also creating an environment Well, they, we where people feel accepted, respected and like they belong. And so there is a lot of things we're doing, we should be doing in that area.
Speaker 2:And I was recently on a women in construction panel and we had a Welder a woman welder on the panel and she was talking about the need for, you know, an actual clean restroom on the job site.
Speaker 2:And, you know, not wanting to be Made out to be a big deal, but couldn't it just be?
Speaker 2:You know, she doesn't want to be the one having to ask for everything.
Speaker 2:Or I just heard this horrible story the other day about, you know, women being out on site for over nights and there's no Facility for using the restroom and so they don't drink water all night because they don't want to go out into the bushes to do Something.
Speaker 2:Anyway. That's getting a little bit dirty, but just anyway, creating an environment, both both in office and the way things are done in business and and in the field, in the way things are done to create an environment where everyone is accepted, are included and the norms of yesterday are no longer there. So you know, this is a continual uphill battle that we I shouldn't say uphill this is a continued battle that we're fighting and that you know, it's almost like you don't know till. You know, when I sat on this panel, I was shocked to hear this from this woman that there wasn't a restroom for her on the job site. And now, of course, it's obvious when she said it, but I just assumed it was all set up. So these are, you know, a lot of things that probably people don't even think about.
Speaker 1:Wow, this sounds like another whole podcast.
Speaker 2:You're just starting with that but I will say one more thing that I said at that, which A quote that I I think of often and that somebody said to me in my career, which was Nobody knew you were coming, so no one saved you a seat. And so I think about that a lot when I'm thinking of creating spaces for people and making sure Responsoring people and making sure that they also are taking an active role in that, that situation also. But you know, creating that seat, creating that opportunity for people, is important, and not just focusing on getting the challenges of the day taken care of, because that's a huge part of the challenges of the day.
Speaker 1:I wonder I. Sometimes I think do I say something or do I just wait for another time? But I'm going to say something, okay, so what if WorkSafe BC got involved on the washroom side and, complying with what you're supposed to have, gives you a tax break?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:That way there's an incentive to have and and then there's there's vendors that are provided Um the Proper washroom facilities to to have on site, so that there's some kind of a standard. The problem is is that I think we're asking Entrepreneurs to fix this problem right when this is like a, this is like a safety problem.
Speaker 2:Yes, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like it's they were asking us to go and like wing it and try and figure it out for everyone. So I totally, I totally see your, uh, your point of view, but there needs to be yes, so there's definitely, you know, there's recent, you know, legislation About flushable toilets on the outside. Yeah, I heard about this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah you know, our, our organization has always advocated for clean Facilities. Just because they flush doesn't mean they're clean, right? You know what I mean. Like everybody need, like that is a safety issue. It is like is is a workplace comfort issue and we advocate for that. And should that be, you know, should that be incentivized in some way? I probably couldn't speak to that as I haven't done the research before this moment. But it does. You know, you're right. You know we uh need to um incentivize good behavior.
Speaker 1:We do all right. So this brings us to our last Thing, which is short, okay. So um Christian, who is not here today, he usually does the rapid fire.
Speaker 2:Okay questions.
Speaker 1:Christian, I know you're listening, um, okay, so the first question I have these are rapid fire questions, super quick. Um, what is something that you do that others would think is insane?
Speaker 2:I'm not sure I do a ton of insane, but sometimes at night I read my son's text messages to make sure that nothing naughty is being said. I don't think that's insane though.
Speaker 1:No, that's not insane. That's called compliance. Um right, okay, um, what would you be doing if you weren't doing? If you weren't in construction, you weren't doing the vrca, some other kind of a passion that you have what would you be doing?
Speaker 2:So I wrote down an answer to this as I saw this on your prep list. But I was thinking either traveling in around in a van selling coffee and teaching yoga on the beaches of Mexico, or movie star.
Speaker 1:Movie star. Yes, oh, you'd like to be a movie star. Who's your favorite movie star? Oh?
Speaker 2:I don't have lots of favorites, you know. I just saw a funny clip last night with um. Oh, of course, uh, jane.
Speaker 1:Fonda, jane fonda like this.
Speaker 2:This was a. You know, she's such a class act and such an interesting woman and she has lots of principles, but of course I love jennifer aniston who doesn't, and you know lots of good people like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, jane fonda.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:She is very, very classy.
Speaker 2:You're right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, aristocratic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, she, she is principled and she's not afraid to stand up for what she believes in. And she was a fantastic actress.
Speaker 1:You watch the morning show? Yes, and love it.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and Reese Witherspoon also fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a fantastic show. Yes.
Speaker 2:See, I could picture myself on that show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know you could, I know you can, um, okay, so Lastly, what's your uh most memorable story from the job site in your tenure in construction? Could be a funny thing. That's happened. It could be Something you couldn't believe. You watched.
Speaker 2:Let's see funny story from the job site.
Speaker 1:Japanese music.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to think of something you know, it has to be funny certainly, when I joined construction, I was nervous to go to the job site.
Speaker 2:I felt quite exposed, like I thought everyone knows what to do and I don't.
Speaker 2:Yes, I have a hard hat and a vest and boots on, but everyone else knows where to walk and not you know, because you see that these things that you what if I stand in the wrong place and the guy doesn't see me, or things like this. So I remember being very nervous and also not sure what to talk to the guys on the job site about, and so we were doing this rollout at Carlson it was on the company values and uh, so we went to one of our c-span job sites and I went on one of the barges vancouver pile driving sparges and uh, there were like 10 guys on the crew that were there. I think two rigs were together. So 10 people showed up and they were so welcoming and fantastic. It wasn't like I was so nervous and then there was no reason to be nervous. It was a fabulous conversation, great people, and I just thought you know you're apprehensive about things you haven't experienced before and then you do them and you think they're just people like you.
Speaker 2:I know it was just a great and and then after that I never felt uncomfortable going out on the job site again. You know, I still well, I still was safety conscious but less worried about how to interact with everybody else out there.
Speaker 1:I, I concur, uh, yeah, being the tech nerd, showing up at job site. So like who is this guy? Yes, I know, I've been there, been there many times, even though I renovate a lot of my condo. Right, yes all the stuff that I'm allowed to do, which is like kitchen cabinet doors. Um, anyway, janine, uh, this was fantastic. Thank you very much. I look forward to doing this again and getting even deeper, maybe like a Thursday, maybe a glass of wine.
Speaker 2:Right, I love it. I'm in. I'm sort of getting to end, craig, we can give Craig a mic too, for that one we can, you should.
Speaker 1:Craig, thank you very much for coordinating. I really appreciate it. Look forward to more and more and more stuff. All right, is there anything else you'd like to say To the vrca or your members just before we uh?
Speaker 2:Uh, I've enjoyed certainly uh sharing with you some of the things we're looking at doing with uh vrca in the coming year. I'm actually working on uh some uh Key performance indicators for the board right now of what we're going to accomplish this year, and so this aligns perfectly with our dialogue here, and we can't wait to see you guys up at clf and then, oh yeah, sounds great, okay, well, thank you very much. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Well, that does it for another episode of the site business. Thank you for listening. Be sure to stay connected with us by following our social accounts on instagram and youtube. You can also sign up for a monthly newsletter at site max systems, comm slash, the site visit, where you'll get industry insights, pro tips and everything you need to know about the site visit podcast and site max, the job site and construction management tool of choice for thousands of contractors in north america and beyond. Site max is also the engine that powers this podcast. All right, let's get back to building.