New Delivery Methods in Construction

On this episode, we speak with Jesse Unke about what makes Ram special in the market today and how their people-focused approach to construction consulting has created a unique culture within their organization. We discuss with Jesse some of the popular construction delivery methods seen today on Infrastructure Projects. And some of the trends in construction that are becoming popular. This is a great episode to learn about how leading construction firms approach a project to truly understand the WHY behind it. In order to support the correct delivery schedule, budget and stakeholder expectations.

About RAM Consulting: 

RAM is a forward-thinking design and construction management consulting firm based in Vancouver, British Columbia. With over 50 staff and a focus in the heavy civil and electrical infrastructure sectors, Ram has successfully managed facets for many of the largest infrastructure projects in Western Canada. From the South Fraser Perimeter Road, to the Canada Line Metro, to working with large scale clients such as FortisBC and BC Hydro. Ram is CORE Certified company and a leader in safety, innovation, diversity, and quality.  In 2018 Ram was recognized as Canada’s fastest growing professional services firm by McLeans, As a company Ram is on a mission to be the leader in EPCM services across Canada and the US. 

RAM Website: https://ramconsulting.com/
Jesse Unke LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jesseunke/
Jesse Unke Email: jesse.unke@ramconsulting.com 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Welcome to the Site Visit Podcast. Leadership in construction with perspective from the job site. With your host, Andrew Hansen, James Faulkner, and Christian Hamm. From the SiteMap Studio in Delltown Vancouver.

SPEAKER_03 0:17

Let's get down to it.

SPEAKER_01 0:23

Okay, episode number 15. On this episode, we speak with Jesse Unke, Director of Project Management for Ram Consulting. Ram is a forward-thinking design and construction management consulting firm based in Vancouver, British Columbia. With over 50 staff and a focus in the heavy civil and electrical infrastructure sectors, Ram has successfully managed facets for many of the largest projects in Western Canada, from the South Fraser Perimeter Road to the Canada Line Metro to working with large-scale clients such as Ford's BC and BC Hydro. Ram is a core certified company and a leader in safety, innovation, diversity, and quality. In 2018, RAM was recognized as Canada's fastest-growing professional service firm by McLean. As a company, Ram is on a mission to be the leader in EPCM services across Canada and the U.S. On this episode, we discussed the story of RAM from the beginning in 2007 to where they are today and where they plan to be in the next couple of years. We discussed with Jesse some of the popular construction delivery methods seen today on infrastructure projects, as well as some of the trends of construction that are becoming popular. This is a great episode to learn about how leading construction firms approach a project, to truly understand the why behind it, to support the correct delivery schedule, budget, as well as stakeholder expectations. This is a good one. Let's get to it.

SPEAKER_02 1:45

Alright. Okay, we're back here. We got James, Andrew, uh myself, Christian, and we've got uh Jesse with us here today from Ram Consulting. Jesse, how are you doing? I'm good, thanks. How are you doing? Doing fantastic. It's great to have you. Andrew, uh, you guys had a connection, a relationship before this. Why don't you kick us off and uh learn a little bit more about Jesse and Ram?

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Yeah, so uh I've been I've known Jess for probably six, seven months now. Yeah, you've been and it's uh it's hard to avoid Ram and it's hard to avoid Jesse online because they are active and they are leaders in the space, they're thought leaders. And so talking with uh James and yourself, um, we always want to get leaders on this podcast that are kind of pushing the industry, pushing initiatives, um, stay on top of mind. So Jesse and I went back and forth. It's tough to lock down schedules, everyone's busy in this season, but uh we got them locked in, chained to the uh chair in the podcast today. So uh happy to be here. Yeah, we're excited to have you. So yeah, maybe just give us a quick intro on who is Jesse, um, yourself, personally and professionally, uh, just to give our viewers, our listeners, um some background on yourself. Practice this, Andrew. I know, I always say viewers. We will have video soon. Yeah. We will have video as you take your video. That's right. You have to makeup. What? You have to wear makeup. Yeah, I don't know about that. That's uh that's a line you can't come back from. Um yeah, so who's Jesse and uh yeah, share a bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_06 3:04

Yeah, I know. Um I'm happy to do that. So I'm a civil engineer by trade, uh UBC grad, and uh happy to be able to graduate in Vancouver and then and also work here. I mean, I know a lot of people that uh go to school back east or something like that, and then they got to move. I'm happy to be able to work uh where I went to school and where I grew up from Victoria originally on the island there. So moved here in 2003 and went to school and then stuck around. Uh it was a great time getting ready for the Olympics, all the infrastructure for that. So it was a good time to go into the the municipal infrastructure space as an engineer. So I was very lucky in that regard. And so right now I'm director of project management with RAM. I'll talk a little bit about who RAM is uh later on in the podcast here. But uh yeah, I guess a little bit about me as well is uh I'm actually a certified personal trainer as well. So that's something that I do in my personal time. And I find that that the kind of the coaching aspect that comes with that really lends itself to the consulting industry and mentoring younger staff, and and I find it's something that's uh it's productive as well. I mean, I'm a big fan of fitness and and uh you know I like to do the grouse grind often and go to the gym, and I find that it's it's just as much mental as it is physical, right? So yeah, yeah. Um in terms of uh of my background as well, so I'm a professional engineer here in Canada, a P engine through uh engineers and geosciences PC in in BC. I'm also actually a professional engineer in the US as well. So I'm a dual citizen of uh Canada and the US. So I got that because I thought uh back, you know, 24-year-old Jesse was like, hey, maybe one day I'll move to Hawaii or California or something like that. So my dad pushed me to get the uh the P Eng or PE designation down there. And so that's something I've got in my back pocket. I don't think I'll ever use it. But uh hey, how many engineers would have that?

SPEAKER_01 4:43

That competition.

SPEAKER_06 4:44

You know, it's funny. I I see I'd say maybe 10 to 15 percent of the engineers I run into in the lower mainland have the PE as well. And part of that is because I know some of the the older uh generation of of engineers, if you came from another country or uh weren't you didn't go to an accredited school, you know, in the US or s or wherever, um, part of getting that certification in Canada or to expedite that was to get your PE in the US, and then that was transferable up into uh the PNG here. So I do run into it. It's it's not super common, but it it is something that I see every so often when I'm exchanging business cards or or emails with somebody. So that's cool. You did extensive work down in the US then or No, I I've never I've never worked in the US, I've never done any projects or anything like that. But I just uh because I'm an American citizen, my dad's uh an American citizen, I I thought, you know, if I I wanted to keep that option open. And I'll tell you the the engineering intern exam. So you have to write an exam to be an engineering, basically an EIT, what we have up here. One of the hardest exams I've written, they they're testing you on chemistry and everything else that you haven't seen for years, right? And then the the PE exam is a professional practice exam, and I did mine in construction. You can do yours in construction or geotech, structural. I think it's changed since I did mine. I did mine in in 2011. But uh, those are the two of the hardest exams I've ever written in my life. And in fact, I've got the pencil I wrote the professional practice exam, got it bronzed, man, because it was that it was that much of a to me it like I felt like such a champion after finishing that because it was it was the hardest exam I've ever written. HB number two? Or yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Sharpened up. Yeah, that's awesome. Um maybe professional background, uh, WSP Benny. What's uh what's kind of been your journey up to up to RAM?

SPEAKER_06 6:28

Yeah, no, I guess the other thing I should touch on in terms of my professional background is that I'm uh a PMP as well through Project Management Institute. I'm a risk management professional as well. And uh, you know, project management is is my bread and butter, and it's what I deal with every day with with RAM and lead that group. So I want I want to make sure and touch on that. But yeah, no, I've uh I started my career with Binny as a as an engineer in training, great company, great leadership there. Really dove into the uh the design side of things to uh get that uh experience I needed for my PNG and um moved uh you know I found that design wasn't really my thing, nothing against people that do design, but I found that I was I like dealing with people and and kind of the soft skills side of engineering uh more than the the the hardcore design. But it's something that I'm glad I have. I mean it's it's uh a foundation you need to be a, in my view, to be a successful project manager. You need to know what goes into to the projects that you're working on, right? Absolutely. So yeah, I I from there I worked for WSP and doing uh project management with them and really got more into the the project management side of things. And uh Binny started up a project management division, uh, kept in close contacts, I still do, with with um a couple contacts at BINI, and uh there was opportunity there to come back, so I did and uh worked there for a number of years in the project management division and really helped hone my skills on that side and then worked uh in management consulting for one of the big uh international consulting firms here in the lower mainland for a few years and uh led me kind of over to uh to Ram and maybe just to kick things off on who Ram is and my connection to Ram. Uh Ram was started by two UBC grads, uh Joe Di Placido and Ziyad Bustani, two good friends of mine. We are good friends in university. We kept in touch throughout the years and uh they were doing some exciting things. And you know, I talked to them about uh they were talking about getting a project management division going and said, hey, would you want to head that up? And and I felt like I had enough experience under my belt, both on the technical side, the management consulting side. I had a good network of contacts to draw upon and clients that I'd worked with. So I thought it was a good time to make a move to a smaller company at that at that time was a smaller company. And uh, you know, the ability to work with with uh your friends that you trust and respect was a huge uh selling factor for wanting to join Ram and help Ram grow, right? So totally yeah, so that brings me to where I am today. I've I've been with Ram now for almost two and a half years and uh time flies. It feels like it doesn't feel like it's been that long, but uh it's it's been a fun ride so far. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:56

So was that a new business unit or new part of Ram that you were sort of almost like a mini entrepreneur within the exactly? Okay, exactly. So did you have to put the whole offering together value proposition of that particular Yeah?

SPEAKER_06 9:09

I mean, I I worked with Joe and Zed on that, but really it was helping set up all the tools and templates and how we were gonna do business in terms of the project management side of things. And then also on the business development side coming in, really helping how we write our proposals and nailing down that process and how we go about generating new business. And uh Joe and Zed, I have the utmost respect for them. They they're uh really cutting edge in the way that they they do their business and the way they see the industry. And and I think uh combining uh my owner's rep side and their contractor construction side, I mean I I've got experience on the uh construction side as well, as do they on the owner's side, but really it was it helped round out a team there to have that construction and project management groups uh come together, and I think it was uh a successful marriage of um of skill sets there. So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Yeah, nice. So, what would you say REM does today with your kind of elevator pitch and service on the phone?

SPEAKER_06 10:01

Yeah, so I mean, in terms of who we are, we're EPCM, and and for people that don't know what EPCM is, that's engineer, procure, and construction manage. And so, I mean, we basically a client can hand us a project and say, hey, this is what we need to un, this is what we want. We can work out what the scope and schedule, budget, all that stuff looks like, and then we turn the keys over to them at the end of the project. Uh an example of that right now that we're we're working on is the Vancouver Airport Fuel Delivery Project. We're providing construction management services for that. And it's uh it's a large project, uh fuel receiving facility, storage, some new uh storage tanks on the Fraser River there, and then a 13 kilometer jet fuel pipeline out to YVR. And so that incorporates sounds complicated. Yeah, no, it's a cool project. And I mean, it's got uh trenchless construction, it's got open construction, it's it's got a little bit of everything for everyone, right? And it's so it's it's a very interesting project, and uh my group is helping the the permitting and stakeholder engagement on that project.

SPEAKER_04 10:54

So that's not that much of a departure from like uh an oil project, basically. I mean, you're dealing with fuel, uh the safety side of things must be very Yeah, it's similar.

SPEAKER_06 11:04

I mean, another project that uh that we've been we've been involved with on the project and construction management side is the Fortas BC Lower Mainland Intermediate Pressure System Upgrade Project. And so there's a lot of similarities there. I mean, both projects are in well, more so the Fortas project is in like a heavy urban setting. Same thing with the the airport fuel delivery project. I mean, we're going up highway 99 and and and through Richmond there, right? So um there's yeah, there's very there's similarities there in terms of of what you'd see maybe like in an Alberta type project, right? So for sure. But uh yeah, really what we are, we're owners representative um and and on the project and construction management side, and we've also got the design side as well. So something that's unique for us is that we've got civil and electrical engineers in-house. So we do work with BC Hydro with that team. Excuse me. Uh Fortis, we've done some work with some utility relocation designs, and then we've got a land development uh satellite office as well in Abbotsford, so that focuses on land development, the land development projects in the Fraser Valley. But also, I mean, we will do work anywhere in the lower mainland. But there's there's a lot of uh of work going on in the Fraser Valley, as I'm sure you guys are aware. Yeah. So we're just over 50 staff, and you know, kind of a cool story is when I joined, we were like, I want to say 15, 16 people, and so we've we've grown. I want to say we're 53 people now uh and growing, steadily growing. We've got new people starting the next couple of weeks as well. So that's both both offices? Both offices. That's that's project wide. We've got that, or sorry, I should say um company wide. We've got uh we've got 53. Uh founded in 2007, as I said, by Joe Di Placido and Ziad Bustani, uh, here in the lower mainland. Uh so we've been around for 12 years. We were named the fastest growing professional services firm in Canada by McClain's last year, which was a pretty cool uh uh flag for us to plant to say, nice yeah, I know we're growing. Uh we're core certified, so that's something that's unique, I think, about us as a consultant is that you see the core certification through the BC Safety Construction Alliance. You see that a lot with contractors, but not a lot with consultants. And we're a very safety-centric organization, uh, something that that we really take to heart. And it's not just something that we put on our website, it's something that we live and breathe every day, right? So it's incorporated into everything we do is the safety side of things.

SPEAKER_04 13:11

That could very definitely be the sort of uh the one thing that tips you guys over the edge when it comes to getting some of this bigger work.

SPEAKER_06 13:18

Yeah, oh, for sure. And I mean, like any projects or any any uh meetings we have for projects, we always kick it off with a safety moment. Like that's the first thing we do before we talk about anything is a safety moment. And we do that in our internal meetings as well. And it's just just always top of mind. And it and it could be anything from it doesn't have to be project-related safety. It could be, you know, like I uh yesterday we had a meeting and I saw uh unfortunately I saw a guy uh take a fall on the seawall, wasn't wearing a helmet on his bike, and uh I don't know, it didn't look like he had hit his head, but uh thought, hey, you know, and I'm guilty of it. You know, riding on the seawall without a helmet, uh, that's it's dangerous. And it that just it's just thinking of safety, it it it you can't help but almost become obsessed with it because when you're when you when it's so important to you in your professional life, you can't help but put it into your personal life. And kind of a funny story about that is I went to Bali with uh my soon-to-be wife, and we took this little boat trip to one of the islands uh there. And uh first thing I asked the guy, I get on the boat, and this guy's like smoking a cigar next to like an open gas can, right? And I'm like, hey, where's the uh where do you guys have the life jackets? And he kind of looked, I don't even think he spoke English. He kind of looked at me funny. I'm like, yeah, this doesn't seem, I said to Jenna, this doesn't seem safe. And she's like, you know, this isn't, you know, leave that stuff at home.

SPEAKER_05 14:30

And I'm like, but hey, you know, seriously, like that I can't help, right? Yeah, you gotta think of the worst case scenario for sure. Totally.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

And I think it's gotta become a part of the culture too. Oh, totally. See that a lot of organizations they just uh safety, it's gotta be a cultural thing. We talk about this on a lot of our shows, is that mentality from like old school to new school, but what you're saying is becoming a part of just the way you guys think you hire people and totally you've grown from you know 13 to 53, yeah, and it's a cultural thing.

SPEAKER_04 14:52

Yeah, big time. Well, the the the interesting thing about safety is that you know you you've got the different uh the different generations who have grown up with different you know levels of safety. Now, now everything's extreme. Oh yeah, but like you know, a good example is hey, Tony Hawk didn't used to have a skateboard helmet on, but now he does. Yeah, that's right. Okay, yeah. So that's the reality, right? Because he's moved along with it. Just because he's like a veteran, yeah, doesn't mean that he's you know, it's not getting hurt, yeah. Yeah, he's using his brain. He's like, Yeah, I mean I can't believe I wasn't doing this before.

SPEAKER_03 15:23

That's right. But you always have some purists out there. Yeah, some purists, yeah, exactly. Oh, that's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

I was having this conversation about some guy on uh I saw him ripping around that little um what is it, little motorized unicycle type hoverboard thing. Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah. He's wearing just as yesterday down in East Van, and he's uh got uh no shoes, uh no helmet, no shirt, just shorts, and he's ripping one-legged through traffic. Oh man. I was impressed. Yeah, yeah. But he would got he would put it. Oh, on that little that little Yes, yes, he would have been hurt pretty bad. Man, yeah, no kidding.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Um that's uh it's a pretty exciting breakdown on on Ram and what you guys have done. Um what would you say? Kind of a tough question, maybe to kind of lob at you, but what's been special about your group? I mean, winning that award from McLean's and the momentum, what from you know, being relatively new, what's been your secret sauce? What's been uh your momentum?

SPEAKER_06 16:16

Yeah, I'd say, you know, the other things that make us have made us successful is the fact we're OQM certified with EGBC as well. So we've got we've got a we we take safety seriously, we take quality seriously, right? And it's something that's incorporated to any deliverables. We're we're submitting, I mean, that's just even internal things that we're doing. We we still uh do the quality audits on them. Uh we've got the MIT program with EGBC as well, so that's helped attract some younger staff for us. And and I don't know if you guys are familiar with the what the MIT program is, but it's a membership and training program, so it helps somewhat expedite going from an EIT to a PNG. So I'm one of the the auditors uh in-house at RAM. We've gone through all the training and everything else, so it helps us evaluate our EIT's um submissions and make sure that they're on the right track to get the experience they need. So for us, I think that's it's beneficial for us. We want to have uh our younger staff have their PNGs sooner, and also for them on their side, uh there's a benefit there. Their application just isn't thrown into a pile and they have to wait six months to get their um their uh registration. I think the other thing that that's helped us be successful is is that we really have a diverse uh team and our like our leadership team is is 33% women. We're big on women in engineering, we're big on having a diverse team. We've got lots, we're multicultural, we celebrate uh um you know all of the different cultural celebrations that we have in the office, and it's something that's that's really cool that for people to come in and kind of share who they are and their background, right? Um I think that's something that that's important to have in a in a company is is that kind of that that family-centric type mentality, which has been easier when we were, you know, 15 people, 16 people, but as we grow, we really want to keep that same um type of relationship and and kind of camaraderie in the office, right? We don't want to become you know, someone just be employee number two, five, six, three type thing, right?

SPEAKER_04 18:02

Yeah, that's pretty cool. That that uh gender balance is a really, really good thing.

SPEAKER_06 18:05

Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, we we uh there's a lot of value in in supporting that, and we really we try to uh make sure that we're vocal about that, but we we put our our money where our mouth is as well as we support the different uh organizations, uh whether it's sponsoring an event or sending our staff to events. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Yeah, it's always unique when you generally in engineering uh EPC, you have a lot of legacy firms, yeah, and they've been around for so long. Yeah, um, kind of you know, great organizations, but with you guys being relatively new, I'd say you guys have some depth because you've been around. Yeah, but you're building that culture as you kind of go along and so like younger team, UBC grads, you kind of have a cultural component to it. That's exciting to see, and you guys can kind of mold as you go along and pivot to your projects. That's exciting.

SPEAKER_06 18:53

That's part of the reason that I joined Ram as well, is to help really uh form how this company is gonna look and and and our values and everything else. And I I really I really bought into Joe and Ziad's view on how they want to do business and and how they want to carry out uh the consulting work we do. And I mean, that's not that's them professionally, but also I've known them, as I mentioned before, personally, and they're just really solid guys, like they've they've got uh good values, and I'm really in alignment with with the way they see things.

SPEAKER_02 19:18

So you uh you brought us some some nice little gifts here beforehand with all your new branding and everything like that. And we've seen on social and everything that you guys have a really strong uh brand and it's and it's uh you guys clearly focus on it. Um how was that played into because this is fairly recent, right? Yeah. How's that played into kind of uh is it was there a shift in the organization, or was there or is it kind of all tied together the last couple years of uh I think it was just time.

SPEAKER_06 19:42

I mean, we were seeing growth and and we and in terms of the way we do things with deliverables to clients and the way we market our services through proposals or marketing material, and we just felt it was a time to to do a refresh. We were also growing to the point where we needed a new office space. So it gave us an opportunity to kind of start over and see how we wanted to lay things out and and a chance to kind of start fresh. So we thought it was a great time to take another look at our logo and and the way we uh present um, like I said, deliverables and and marketing material and our slogan and all that kind of stuff. It was just kind of it was a good time to do a do an overall um refresh, right?

SPEAKER_02 20:19

So did you guys have um like your values and all that kind of stuff already established? Yeah, you bet. Oh, you bet, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:25

Yeah, that's something that we we I mean, every year we have a leadership retreat where we sit down and we really nail down our vision, you know, for the the the coming year, the coming, you know, two years, three years, five years type thing. And really our vision is to be the leading EPCM in Canada uh in the next five years or so here, right? Depending on if we can keep our momentum going. And and I mean we're not just looking to grow just for the sake of growing. That's something I should mention as well, is that I talked about the fact that we've gone from you know 15, 16 people to over 50 people in the last two and a half years here. But we we're not just trying to find people off the pull people in and say, hey, fill a seat. Fill a seat because you know what? That's a recipe for disaster. And I've I've seen that, and it and it's it it doesn't uh it doesn't help. I mean we've we have uh zero percent turnover for 2019. We haven't had anyone leave. It's just been all growth, right? And and it's part of our culture, I think, is really work hard, play hard. You know, we've got uh Rams soccer team, we've got a Ram cycling club, uh, we've got a Ram Grouse Grind group that and you know I'm I've been it's like pulling teeth sometimes. Sometimes it's it's a team of one me going up there, but uh it's hard at the end of the day because it's we do it. Hey, let me know, I'll I'll go. Yeah, hey, no, you guys are more than welcome to come.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Our team did quarry rock. So uh there you go. So we're getting our way up there.

SPEAKER_06 21:36

Yeah. No, it's it's hard. I hike in the park.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Yeah, we Googled easiest hike in Vancouver. Hey, it's right.

SPEAKER_06 21:42

And we got donuts after it. That's right. Yeah, I know you guys are welcome to uh come anytime. Normally we go Wednesdays uh do the grind there, yeah. So uh I shouldn't say you know, d I've had some s I shouldn't say it's just me.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

There's there's stuff to come, but now's your time to call 'cause Ram's gonna be listening to this. So if you have any time to call people out, no, no, it's good.

SPEAKER_06 21:58

I mean name names. I I I gotta it's a little bit uh I'm a little bit guilty because the whole reason part of the reason why I I try and promote the the grind is because I'm guilty. I'll skip out if it's just me. But if there's somebody coming, I'm like, okay, I can't not go. I promised so-and-so that I was gonna go type thing, right? So But yeah, that just ties in a little a little bit about uh um the fact that yeah, we do have that culture and and I I really truly believe that the the staff we have are happy and and feel challenged and and they feel valued, right? And that's something that that other organizations sometimes uh lack, right?

SPEAKER_01 22:33

So I'd even say the industry. I mean, questions that you're saying, things you're asking yourselves, the industry probably five, six, seven years ago didn't really ask those questions. Right. Culture, onboarding values, yeah, doing a gross grind. Yeah, yeah. Um that's that gets us excited, and we try and bring people on the show that talk about that. So for sure, good.

SPEAKER_04 22:53

It's still a pretty young company. I mean, in the based on the breadth and the and the intricacies of the work you guys do, yeah. It's not like you're a 50-year-old company. No, no. And you know, the on the culture side of things, when you haven't had a generation turnover yet, yeah, typically what happens with that is you um, you know, I always like to say that the culture shift is, you know, if you're it's kind of like the the size of the boat, yeah, and the direction that that's going. I mean, for for you to turn, you know, do a 180 turn with a tanker in a harbor, you're hanging on to that controls for a while. Oh yeah. And you know, you get a whole bunch of whereas you guys are more like a wakeboard boat. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You can just turn on a dime and uh, you know, and everybody's uh visible and you can see uh that everyone's um um bought in. Yeah. Because you can just turn around and go, hey, does this everyone believe in this? Because we're gonna turn here. Totally. And uh yeah, you guys can uh sort of turn on a dime, which is a which is a pretty cool thing. Um that's probably gonna lend to that uh you know the not having any of that turnover. Yeah. Because I think people probably especially like all of these extra things that you're doing. Yeah. People work is very difficult because you always you know often you feel like you know you want to leave work behind. Yeah. And what keeps things uh keeps things going is is all these extra things that sort of keep my uh work top of mind. Yeah, you bet. Yeah, so that's pretty cool, man.

SPEAKER_01 24:18

People like being on a wakeboard boat over a tanker.

SPEAKER_06 24:21

That's right.

SPEAKER_01 24:21

I'd say what got me interested, you mentioned you guys go on annual leadership retreat. Yeah, you bet. Um kind of some of the topics you want to jump you jump into today on the technical side is trends and construction, um, things you're seeing in the market for horizontal construction, infrastructure projects. So when you guys go on that leadership retreat, um, and I know for me, running my business, a year goes by so fast now. Before it didn't, but now it's like you blink and the year's over. So when you guys sit in that leadership retreat as a team and you guys are forecasting your head, what are you guys seeing right now with trends in the market, like what's coming around the corner, and what do you guys see as new construction delivery methods? Because you guys are on the front edge of kind of you mentioned like owner's rep on steroids and kind of leading with um whether it's inspection services, consulting services. So kind of maybe visualize for us what that leadership retreat looks like, how fast the market's changing, where you guys see some trends are coming for people listening.

SPEAKER_06 25:16

Yeah, no, I definitely, I mean, I would say the early contractor involvement and and really the constructibility review of how a project is done is something that we really try and focus on on any of the work we do. Um I think that, you know, it sometimes in the industry it's easy to jump into a design and not talk to the operations people or not talk to the end user of the product, and that's something we really try and do in terms of stakeholder engagement. And that's not, you know, like a lot of the work we do in the horizontal infrastructure world, we have municipalities and and regional districts and so forth that are the end user, right? So the stakeholders are really the whole tax base, they're whole the the residents of that particular municipality. So I'll use an example, like if we're doing uh a gas line upgrade project, yeah, the the end product is that the the gas line and and to be able to deliver that uh product. But you got to look at, you know, how are we how are we incorporating uh during the construction, how are people getting around? How is the workspace? How are how where's the contractor putting their machinery at the end of the day, or how are they able to move, how is traffic movement, how is pedest how are pedestrians getting around? So, really that when you ask me, you know, what kind of uh delivery methods do I see? I really see the early contractor involvement as a as a big key thing that uh especially on the municipal side that that a lot of clients are liking to see is that uh you have that um contractor input early on in the in the the development stage of the project, so we can really see how how is this going to be constructed and and is it gonna be uh a usable final product? Because I think when you when you're late in the game, maybe if you once you're out there actually doing construction, you've you have the design completed, and then that's when you get into change orders, things get expensive, schedules get pushed, and everything else, right? So being able to do that early on in the process, I think we've seen a lot of success and and got a lot of positive feedback from our clients on that.

SPEAKER_04 27:04

So when so when you're um early on, do you guys go out and do some sort of an analysis of what that temporary urban impact's gonna be? Like do you do you go and study, you know, how much uh you know, but I guess at 4 30 we see a ton of people walking this way or I mean we we have access.

SPEAKER_06 27:21

What happens there? The good thing is we do have um access to traffic studies and pedestrian movement studies from municipalities and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04 27:28

Is that all on camera these days, or how's that all?

SPEAKER_06 27:30

Uh they're all each one's different. I mean, I've seen I it's funny in this boards. Yeah, I mean, some of them are camera, but I I've still seen the old school somebody sitting, you know, a co-op student sitting in a chair, you know, pressing the bunch or something.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Rumble step across the room. Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:42

They have that for cycling now. I just went over one the other day. I'm like, Jesus, they're they're tracking how fast people are cycling. Yeah, exactly. Oh yeah. You see James on the corner, he's picking up scounting. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 27:52

Yeah. No, but yeah, we do have access. I mean, like it's more so that we like to have that information shared at the tendering stage with a contractor or with a consultant that's doing the design even earlier on, because they can take into account, like, wow, okay, hang on. Like looking at this intersection or this this uh spread of this project on Google Maps, okay, that's great. But how many cars are actually going up and down there? How many is this a cycling route? Is this a popular spot for people to walk their dogs? Like, there's things that you would never really think of just by looking at a at a photo or looking at a map that you can get that information early on from a client. And if they don't have access to it, it's something we advise our clients like, hey, we should do some traffic studies here, we should take a look at at how this people get in and out of these businesses, right? Because it's something that needs to be incorporated to make a project success successful.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

So is that something that's always been done, or has that been a trend you've seen?

SPEAKER_06 28:42

That's a trend I I've seen. I mean, it's it's been an afterthought, I think, in uh in the past. And I think it's something that that uh the industry is seeing more and more on infrastructure projects, is that you need to take into account how people are getting around and how you're gonna impact that community, right? Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

So you're seeing a pivot from a reactive to proactive. Absolutely. And that's kind of where you guys come in on, and that's where you see the growth of coming early on to those contracts.

SPEAKER_06 29:03

You bet, yeah. Being being an effective owner's rep, I think, is really managing stakeholders uh early on, getting them involved, finding out what's important to them and making sure their voices are heard and incorporating that into the entire project, right? And and so I would say early contractor involvement and early stakeholder uh engagement as well. Because if you're coming to the you have an open house for a project, for example, and the design's all been done and and the contract's been signed with a contractor, it's a little bit too late, and then you're getting into change orders and you're you're you're adding uh stretching out the schedule and adding to the budget, and that's two things as an owner's rep we don't want to do, right? We want to keep things on track.

SPEAKER_01 29:36

So cool, nice makes me feel better when I'm driving down the road and I see I'm stuck behind traffic. That hopefully there's been some thought put into the yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 29:45

Well, yeah, if you're sitting on highway one, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:50

Yeah, I can't help you there. Sorry.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Yeah, not a RAM project, yeah, yeah, exactly. Um, so those are kind of the leadership perspectives. Um, talk about infrastructure projects potentially and uh what trends you see there. I think um you're active on LinkedIn. Yeah, you bet. Which is uh is great. Uh quick shout out to you. Maybe give them give them a follow if you want to see uh current trends. But yeah um yeah, where do you see? Do you guys talk about infrastructure trends? Um, a lot of energy up updates, Fordist, kind of those elements. You guys are kind of staying in front of the trends. So what are you guys seeing kind of the movement there?

SPEAKER_06 30:24

In terms of trends in in infrastructure, like the way things are being carried out. Yeah, no, I think you know, one thing that uh uh I think we're gonna touch on the British Columbia construction roundtable in a little bit here, but one thing that we're gonna be talking about with them is uh the use of AI, uh drones and all that kind of technology in the infrastructure space is something that we're starting to see more and more of. And it's it's kind of funny we were talking before about kind of the old school mentality and what the hell's a drone? Why why would I how does that serve value? But I mean, you can do surveys from drone drones now and just you know, uh project update photos and all that kind of stuff, but also uh I think uh the AI side of things as well, and and how you can incorporate a there's a lot of cool technology out there, but I mean, I get it, you know, contractors don't want to necessarily take on the risk of a of a new technology. And uh I think it's part of our role as an owner's rep to educate and and something I should mention is that we don't only represent when I say owners representative, we're not only working directly for owners, we work for contractors as well. So depending on the project and where we see value, how we're gonna best serve the project and be successful, we will work on the contractor side or the owner's side. So when you're talking about trends and infrastructure, that could be us advising the contractor or the owner, right? So there's there's uh on both sides of the table. I mean, there's the um, like I said, uh artificial intelligence, uh, the way that you know trenchless uh design and trenchless construction is big. And that's a big part of how we get into uh helping the impacts on on traffic move movements, for example. So I mean, like on the Fortis project, we did a lot of trenchless installations there, and that enabled us to keep intersections open and traffic flowing and people moving, right?

SPEAKER_04 32:01

And it's so let's uh discuss that a little bit in further. Yeah, trenchless, let's keep going.

SPEAKER_06 32:06

Totally. No, that's something that um that we've got a lot of a lot of uh experience in. It's something that we're gonna be applying to our our airport or pardon me, airport fuel delivery project. Okay. And uh that's something that I think that uh it's used a lot more common in in other parts of North America, and it I think it's just starting to uh really take hold here in the lower mainland. We're seeing more of it with uh not only projects we're working on, but you know, other projects in the infrastructure space. And it's just a way to to uh to save time and also you know, when it comes to us talking a little bit about um workspace planning, for example, and if you're doing a trenchless in uh installation, uh like I mentioned you can go through an intersection or underneath underneath the highway or uh underneath a congested area and not have to have equipment. So you're talking about boring instead of taking Yeah, instead of open cut. Okay, and there's it doesn't it's not necessarily boring, there's all kinds of different uh methods for trenchless and right, whatever's appropriate for those ground conditions and and and for that particular project, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Well, would those methods be, just out of curiosity.

SPEAKER_06 33:02

Yeah, I mean there's uh there's uh pipe augering, there's the um uh there's a variety of different I mean the way that you can the way that it was best explained to me when I I first came into it is it it's really uh on a geotech side, you need to take a look at at what kind of soil conditions you have, right? So there's direct drill, um, there's a pipe augering method. There's uh and and some, you know, one of the we we were talking about earlier, there's a lot of contractors uh in the US that are using these methods that there's that are coming out that I I'm not even aware of what they are. I mean, we're seeing a lot of uh um like the soils that we have and that we've dealt with in lower mainland, some of them are are very rocky, some of them are you know like soup, right? So it's it's it's all looking at the appropriate method that matches that. Right. So when you do the geotech, then you can pretty much figure out what Yeah, you can really match uh the the method that you're gonna use for that with the uh how you're gonna go about doing that. So um on the design side, it's not something that that we touch and it's not uh like something that we're technically that we would take on, but it's definitely on the management side of it. Once they determine what method they want to use, we can help with uh facilitating that. And one thing with with the trenchless uh construction is that you do have an entry and exit pit, which can be rather large, right? So versus uh versus an open cut method, I mean maybe you you can keep it within a a certain uh footprint and it's it's linear along the project, but on the the uh the trenchless design side, I mean you've you've got depending on the method and and the size of of um casing you're putting through, you you've got you can have pretty large uh entry and exit that's gonna be an issue sometimes, right, for space planning.

SPEAKER_04 34:39

So just to touch on the technology side of things, um, you know, how things are evolving, you know, you're talking about drones and and uh all that sort of stuff. Yeah. Um I think on the on the um capture and analysis side of things, a lot of this these these technologies are being um spearheaded by some of the things that are coming out of the military. Because what they're doing with drones and the type of software that they use to you know use AI for for photographs and for video, yeah. That sort of stuff, you can is a natural fit for coming down for this sort of topography.

SPEAKER_06 35:13

Yeah, well something that yeah, it's funny you touch on that because like something I've seen, like even for quantity surveys, right? Like you can do that from drones and and uh almost using like a LIDAR type technology to calculate what uh where the progress of the project is, how much material's been moved, and and so on and so forth. And that's definitely something that that uh that I see like it does have a military background to it, right?

SPEAKER_04 35:33

So it's the interesting part about how all this technology is dovetailing with uh where construction is uh with uh innovation is um we see sort of we've seen on our side is you know this robotics sort of, you know, you you see these uh um, you know, I was dealing with one of our clients the other day, they were they were doing um uh vertical shock creet, so structural shock creet. So they basically, you know, we were doing vertical walls and parkades. And uh, you know, I was saying is it seems like there would be a robotic element to say, yeah. He goes, Yeah, it's uh X and Y axis, it's pretty basic. Yeah. All we need is a laser and this thing to point, and you just keep loading it up. But the interesting part is that there's the tech is really ramping up very quickly where it doesn't replace uh a human. Yeah. And because the human part of uh uh perspective and um there is there's experience things that AI will eventually get to, but there's this I gotta make a sudden decision that logic in software doesn't isn't there yet.

SPEAKER_06 36:38

Well, and it's just linear. Yeah, you know what? It's I I'd say it it a comparison to that is like you know, when when uh in the industry when uh for example, like in structural engineering, like all these programs came out and did all these calculations. At the end of the day, you still need to look at it as a human and say, does this make sense, right? Because you're right, there's that reasoning is not there yet. Because I'm sure it's coming. The reasoning, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 36:59

Yeah, you but you guys are doing everything before anything happens and as it's happening. So but just imagine the driving the actual thing that's making it happen. That's where it gets scary because you know you you can't really tell everything that's around and the impact of that thing happening. That's right. Anyway, I'm just gonna down a down a hole here a bit.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Yeah, I mean it's interesting when when you talk drones and AI, everyone kind of perks up. Yeah. Like even when you said I'm like, oh, this is interesting.

SPEAKER_06 37:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

What do you see like just personal opinion for you? Yeah. Um, how does construction adopt this technology? Because you have this, I find you have this like balance where you know doing it the way you've always done it. Let's say it's a civil contractor, yeah, yeah, doing earth work or doing any sort of underground utilities, and it's like this the way they've always done it. Yeah, they know their production, they know they know their uh they know their numbers. Yeah. And then you go into okay, we're gonna take a risk and adopt some technology, whether it's LIDAR, whether it's uh TopCon.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:49

So how would you speak to those people? It's like you gotta take that, you gotta make that jump into technology, see like that's where it's going.

SPEAKER_06 37:55

You know, it's all about risk management. That's what I keep hearing when we talk to contractors and we to when we talk to owners as well, right? So they don't, it's kind of hard. There is that old school mentality. This is the way we've always always done it, is tried, uh tested and true. Maybe it's not the most efficient way to do things, but we know we we're very confident on what the outcome is gonna be. And one thing that you know, we had somebody come in from uh Northern Alberta Institute of Technology, uh Nate there to the BCCR and give a presentation. And they've got a whole facility up there to test all these different construction methods and and uh different um, you know, new methodologies and new products, and like you're talking about the shock, the computer or the uh robotic shock creep, like they'll do stuff like that at this facility. It's actually really cool. And I think the proof is in being able to show consistency in a certain method or a certain methodology and that it's it's been tested and verified because no contractor is going to want to take on something where they could potentially lose money or or it or cause harm to somebody. We don't want to see that either, right? So I think some of the work that, like, say Nate is doing in terms of cutting edge edge construction technology and then actually putting it, you know, testing it in winter conditions and extreme heat and everything that they have in in northern Alberta there um is something really cool. And I would encourage people to have a look and see what they're doing. Uh, they've got a good website, and and uh gentlemen that came in and gave a presentation talked about some pretty cool things in terms of uh infrastructure and buildings that that they're looking at.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

That sounds very interesting. We should get involved in that.

SPEAKER_06 39:22

Yeah, I'd be happy to make a introduction to you guys for that. But yeah, they so there, that's the whole thing that the that was kind of around his presentation and my conversation with him prior to him coming to the BCCR is that you know, a contractor and an owner, it's about risk management, right? And so you don't want to do anything, especially anything that's that could potentially be unsafe. You know, we're talking about like again the robotic shock creep. Yeah. How do you know it's not gonna, I don't know, injure somebody somehow. And like we need to have that that safety, uh, those safety measures in place, right?

SPEAKER_04 39:49

Yeah, and to know whether, I mean, uh to know whether or not it's uh if your mix is properly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 39:54

Because they do stack it into the rebar.

SPEAKER_04 39:57

Totally up to like, you know, uh, you know, 12 inches thick, obviously. Uh for a typical it's so it's yeah, it's pretty interesting stuff though.

SPEAKER_06 40:03

Aaron Powell Nobody wants to be the guinea pig out in the industry, right? Nobody wants to try and like, hey, let's let's let's gamble a couple million dollar contract here and see if this works. Whereas I think some of the work that they're doing is that they've got uh people, they've got research grants and they've got people on the uh on the educational side that are taking a look at it and and and verifying that this is something that can go out to market, right?

SPEAKER_04 40:22

So well there's there the professional layer of the contract services in between. Um so somebody has a project, then you have somebody coordinating it, and then um there's people who are uh executing on that. Yeah. So we always make the the comparison to how uh the uh evolution of this self-driving car. Yeah. So the difference is is that let's say you've got you know uh electric car company and then they're gonna be doing their self-driving program. Well, you've got you've got the car brand and then you've got the end consumer. Yeah. Okay, well, the risk here is on the end consumer. Whereas in a construction project, you've got a company in between. That's right. Which is a big difference. Yeah. And that company doesn't want to take the risk that they're gonna hurt the end user. Oh, yeah. So that's that's the big that's why this stuff is moving slowly, because that middle part doesn't want any liability. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

Oh, very true. Shifting gears a little bit. You're a uh personal trainer. Yes. So you do some things outside of RAM, extracurricular, yeah, as well as other organizations. You're part of, for example, the BC British uh Columbia Construction Roundtable. Yeah, you bet. You want to talk about that a little bit?

SPEAKER_06 41:37

Yeah, you bet. So I'm the current president of the British Columbia Construction Roundtable, and maybe to give you guys a little bit of background about who the I'll call the BCCR is we're a nonprofit organization. So our board of directors, we're all um volunteers and we're all there to help grow the construction industry and take a look at what's going on. And something that's cool about the BCCR is that it's not just consultants like myself, there's contractors, there's lawyers, there's insurance people, uh suppliers, owners, um, everyone who plays in the construction space. So it's really about staying true to that name, that having the roundtable and having a diverse membership there and getting people connected. And the main objective of the BCCR is networking and connecting people and then also educating people on what's going on with the in the industry. I mean, I talked about what Nate's doing on the research side and try to um push innovation forward in construction. That was a presentation we we recently had, but we'll have owners come in and talk about what's going on with them and suppliers and contractors, and uh we really try to be unbiased. I mean, part of what I do on LinkedIn was talking with you guys before is that if I put something out there, it's like, hey, this is what's going on. I don't, I'm not saying I agree with it, I'm not saying I disagree with it. It's the same thing with the BCCR. We try to have panel interviews or panel pardon me presentations when appropriate. If somebody's coming in to, you know, somebody's coming in from a municipality or private company to talk about what's going on with them, that's okay, that's fine. That's a one-person show. But uh in if we're talking about something that's a little bit uh uh that's got a got the pros and cons side to it and controversial kind of yeah, we try and get both sides to come in and talk about it, right?

SPEAKER_04 43:09

So what are the um when you guys have your meetings, your round tables, obviously.

SPEAKER_06 43:14

Uh everyone physical and the same, or do you have people calling in, or is it everyone is No, so we still the way we do things is uh we have our our breakfast sessions. So the breakfast sessions at the Terminal City Club. Yeah, normally they're the uh I want to say the maybe the last Thursday of the month, uh 7 30 to 9 a.m. We'll have a I went to one of those. Did you? Yeah, early on in SiteMax. I went to one of those. Oh nice, okay. Yeah, yeah. Terminal City. Yeah, I should.

SPEAKER_05 43:38

Yeah, I should, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 43:39

Yeah, no, so they're 7 30 to 9. So normally we have a uh networking component from 7 30 to 8 o'clock, and then we've got a presentation from 8 to 8 30, 8 45 sometimes with with incorporating some questions and answers, and then a small networking component at the end. Normally by about nine o'clock, people need to get back to the office or parking kicks in, you gotta run out to your car. But uh Uh no, it's it's great. I mean, I got involved, I want to say about three years ago, started well, probably four years ago, I started coming to the events, and about three years ago started getting involved as a director, and I was approached by some of the directors at the time, and there was a there's a real push to get kind of the under 40 crowd uh into the BCCR. And as I'm sure you guys see in the industry, there's that gap, right? So there's the there's kind of the baby boomers that are slowly, uh actually not slowly, they're quickly uh retiring and getting out of the business. There's a gap, and then there's kind of the under-40 type crowd, right? So part of bringing me on was to to help get more um membership from the younger uh group and and not have it look like oh it's just a bunch of old people getting together, right? It's it's this is a this is a uh an organization where the way I try to sell, especially to the to younger staff at Ram and just people, colleagues of mine in the industry, is that hey, you get to go to these events and you can meet a CEO or you can meet a president of a company. Um and also you can connect with other young people as well, right? So we've got a under 40. Sorry, we've got an under-40 um social event coming up August 15th. It's on the rooftop of SNC Laveland. So I'd encourage everybody to come out. We we don't actually have it up on our website yet, but that's something that uh we did that last year and we had a lot of success. And then we've got another event, uh, just our general summer social on uh July uh next week. I think it's July 18th, um, and that's at uh microbrewery in South Vancouver, which is kind of cool. So it's a tour of the brewery, and then you get to uh Oh, that was the one that was a golf tournament, probably, right, Christian?

SPEAKER_04 45:33

That uh one we saw. Remember, we were at the Aquilini one that the there was that brewery that invited us down, South Van.

SPEAKER_02 45:40

Oh, it could be.

unknown 45:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:42

Yeah, we should definitely come check it out though.

SPEAKER_06 45:43

What's what's sorry, what's that?

SPEAKER_04 45:45

I don't know. Never mind.

SPEAKER_06 45:45

No, I don't we we got this offline. Yeah, yeah, no, no, it's okay. No, yeah, no, I sorry, I was just confirming the date. Yeah, it is J July 18th. Uh it's actually the brewery is actually uh partially owned by one of the directors of uh the BCCR as well, which is kind of cool, right?

SPEAKER_04 45:57

So this uh the round table that I went to, there was about 30 people there. Is that kind of the similar one?

SPEAKER_06 46:03

Yeah, that's probably one of our smaller events because normally we'll we'll see between you know 60 to 80 people at our events, depending on the but in the round table itself, like the little meetings there.

SPEAKER_04 46:13

Oh, so did you actually come to one of our director meetings? Is that what you're referring to? I think so. I was invited to one and it was like a like a like big, long, long boardroom kind of thing. Yeah, maybe I think someone presented something and then no, actually, no, it was all tables, excuse me. Because I was I was uh yeah, they were all like small sort of banquet tables. Yeah, yeah. It was because normally we have normally a little stage with a mic.

SPEAKER_06 46:37

Yeah, yeah. We definitely, yeah, they'll yeah, they're they're normally having the same room in the Terminal City Club, and it's yeah, it's a it's a kind of a cluster of tables with a stage at the front. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And there's break we serve breakfast. And what's the frequency of these meetings? Oh they're every month. Okay, great. Every month. So maybe what you're thinking of, I don't know, like we we also have the director meetings, so the board meetings are once a month as well, and that would be that would be about uh you know under 20 people type things, right? If you attend one of those. But yeah, the the um the actual breakfast sessions are are or once a month in their terminal city club, and like I said, normally they're you know 60, 80 people type thing.

SPEAKER_04 47:10

And then in terms of the um what and topics are being discussed, is that depending on uh who's presenting, or is there uh a presentation and then there's topics, or what's the mix of well, really as uh the board, we get together and we take a look at what's going on in the industry, and like on the board, we do have representatives from all the different um areas, so contractors, consultants, legal, uh the insurance side of things, uh suppliers.

SPEAKER_06 47:35

So we take a look, hey, what's going on? What's something that's that's of interest to us as a group, and what do we think our members would want to hear about, right? So then we nail down a topic, we'll invite in, we'll invite some a speaker or speakers to come in. Right. And then that session is just focusing on that particular topic. So it's not um we don't talk about multiple topics in in one session. It would be it'd be focused on that one thing, and and uh um, but then conversations come out of that, of course, you know, before and after. Oh, yeah, that was you know, before we're talking about it or after talking about it, that was kind of cool. And and things, you know, things always sprout off of of the the one uh idea that we have out there, right?

SPEAKER_04 48:09

So um the uh the culture you have at RAM and this whole um you know being uh a better gender mix. Yeah. Uh are you as a director of the round table, you're trying to push that forward to the other. Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_06 48:24

We've yeah, no, we've uh definitely on our board we've we've got uh a good uh representation from women as well. And it's it's something that uh you know, I should yeah, I should say, you know, I was brought in to help kind of bring the under 40 group, but we also want to have more diverse uh um uh you know female representation as well on the board. And and we do have uh some great uh female leadership on the board. Um yeah. So yeah, so I I I would encourage anyone to to check out the website, uh British Columbia Construction Ralph Table, and our website is bccr.net. And uh on that website we it covers what we do, who we are, and our upcoming events. And uh follow me on LinkedIn, Jesse Yankee, U-N-K-E. I always post all of our events up there as well. We've got a the BCCR has a has a site on LinkedIn as well, and and that's always populated with what's going on and and keeping people in the loop about what's coming up. So right on. So yeah, you sound pretty into it. Oh, it's it's awesome. I'll tell you, like uh when I first got into it, it was a little bit intimidating because I I, you know, there were some pretty high-level people that were involved, and I kind of felt out of place at first almost because I uh at the time, you know, feeling like a younger guy, but it's done great things for me personally. I've I've made a lot of personal friends through it and then a lot of professional uh contacts as well. And it's just taught me how to uh to network more efficiently and and how to speak publicly as well. I mean, it now that I'm the president, most meetings I I'll I'll introduce and and and give a good venue to practice your public speaking as well, which I think is an important component, especially in project management, uh when you're presenting to uh you know city councils and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:54

Do you have representation at the other associations then for construction, or is it just primarily this is your the one that you guys are that you're involved in and that's oh from a RAM standpoint? Yeah, from a RAM standpoint.

SPEAKER_06 50:03

Yeah, no, I mean RAM, we are members um uh with um like I said, but on the core side, on the safety side, the BC Safety uh Alliance, so that's something we're involved with. Uh, BCCR, we're supporters of those. So not only do we uh uh attend events, but we also sponsor events um as well. But um yeah, I mean that's really we all we were involved with the Board of Trade as well a little bit. Um but I I think uh oh and I sorry I should mention we're the other thing we're members of is Association of Consulting Engineers of Canada, so ACEC, BC. So we're we're a membership company of that, and we try to attend as many events and support as many events there as well. And that's another great organization that uh that allows um really some networking and some some um they offer some good uh kind of more educational type programs as well, but they also have mixers that are certain centered around Metro Vancouver or City of Vancouver or or other uh clients, right? So but I say for me, British Columbia Construction Roundtable is is is one of the best ones. Of course, I'm biased, but uh yeah, they it's it's just it's done great things for my career, and I I think it's helped a lot of other people to make connections and it's not only looking at how can you, you know, clients to work with, but you can look at you know, partners and suppliers and and learn about what's going on in the industry by by talking to people face to face. And one thing we we touched on LinkedIn is that what I try and tell a lot of the younger generation at RAM is that you can't take the Tinder approach to trying to professionally network. Like you can't just add somebody on LinkedIn, okay. Now you now you're friends, you know what I mean? Like it's or now you're now you're professionally connected. You still have to have that face-to-face interaction and know how to talk to people, how to communicate, how to listen, and everything else. And I think that's almost become a lost art in some way because there's the swipe generation that's used to doing things online. So that's another part of the the BCCR is getting people out there face-to-face and making connections uh in person, right?

SPEAKER_01 51:53

So having that combination offline, online, back to the city.

SPEAKER_06 51:56

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_02 51:58

Don't know if we we're gonna get into this at all, but just really quick. Um does RAM have any uh uh like internship kind of programs and all this kind of thing? I was I was on site, let's say, with a uh quite seasoned uh superintendent yesterday. Yeah. Um had done a lot of high-risk construction with some big developers in town, and uh we got on the topic of engineers and engineers and training and coming to site and not really knowing you know what they're looking at and all that kind of stuff. So the practical experience of going through school, yeah, but then working with or having the chance to be with a great company like Ram and getting that knowledge and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_06 52:36

Yeah, I mean part of our membership and training program is ensuring that our staff, that our EITs get the training and get the experience that that they need, right? So we have a mentoring program at Ram where we we match up, everyone on our leadership team is accountable to not only their staff, but also uh has a mentorship component to what their role is, right? So with our junior, more junior EIT level type people, we try and almost have a rotational where they can try working within the project management division, they can work in the construction management or in the engineering and get get a good uh flavor for who we are and really what they want to do. So if somebody's brought in as a as a PM, for example, there's a uh project manager, assistant project manager that's working in my group doing inspection right now. And that's that's formally that's through the construction management group. But we like to give people a flavor of of um what we do and and like you said, get people out on site, get people involved in design. Um like I mentioned before, you know, my work with Benny, it was great. I had a great mentor who I'm still still my mentor to this day. Um and he was help very helpful. A shout out to Michael Richardson and Benny. Um but yeah, no, he was great with uh with helping me with to be become a good designer, a good critical thinker. I think that's that's that's part of what uh you know in the design side I learned about. But like you mentioned, you don't want to have somebody that's that's only worked in the office, or on the other side that's only worked in the field and doesn't know how what goes into the the design side of things or the or the contract administration side of things, right?

SPEAKER_02 54:01

So yeah, the the well-roundedness, whether you're in um uh the actual hard side of construction where you are building vertical, doing whatever, yeah. Um, or on the consulting engineering side of things, to know how either side works is so critical to the pieces work together, right? It is.

SPEAKER_06 54:18

And it kind of ties back to what I was talking about, like the the um owners or the uh early contractor involvement side of things. I mean, it's good to get out there. We're not a contractor, but it's good for our staff to get out there and see the way the contractor approaches a project and what their prop thought process is as well, right? Because that's something that's inherently built into RAM and what we do is is having that uh that knowledge of working with contractors and how they approach something is different than than uh than a pure design person would, right?

SPEAKER_01 54:45

So yeah, total collaboration pieces.

SPEAKER_06 54:47

Totally, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Yeah this is great. Um any other yeah, I mean, I think we're gonna we have rapid fire still because that's always the best part. Um for sure. I was just curious, I mean, uh whether you're comfortable asking answering this too, but you guys have momentum. Where do you see RAM going in a couple years if you're comfortable talking about that? And also parallel to that, uh, where the industry's going. Um you hit a bunch of awesome topics today, just with mentorship, with um, you know, the generation gap with uh technology, how that's coming into the sector. So you kind of hit a bunch of big topics, and you guys are obviously a leader in all those elements, but where do you see the business going uh from a high level and parallel to that where the industry is going too?

SPEAKER_06 55:28

Well, something I don't think I've explicitly said is that you know, right now RAM does focus on horizontal infrastructure. That's our main focus, and that's where our expertise is. But we can we're continually getting an approach to to take on vertical construction projects as well, right? And that's something where I see Ram in the next couple of years here is is is getting into that space as well. I mean, we um our expertise isn't the horizontal side currently, but we we've been in talks with some people that are on the vertical side, and and that's where their comfort is and that's where their careers have been. And so I think it we have there's an opportunity there to to open up a whole new division at RAM. And it kind of ties back to what we were talking about when I joined Ram and getting the PM side going. I think then getting the there can be a vertical PM component and a vertical uh CM component and a vertical, maybe eventually a design component as well. So there's definitely that. I I touched on the EPCM. So we really want to be seen as a as a leader in the EPCM world in in Canada and eventually in North America is uh is our long-term vision, but to keep building that momentum uh and and just keep on with our with our diversity in in terms of uh culturally diverse and also with women in engineering, that's something we want to carry. We want to have we want to keep our uh leadership team strong in uh on the on both aspects of that. And uh expanding our offices as well. I think you know there's there's uh things are starting to pick up in Alberta again. Yeah. Um and then also, I mean, traditionally a lot of the work we do is in the lower mainland, and but we've done some cool projects. We've done a couple cruise ship piers down in the Caribbean as well, which is yeah, I saw that on your website.

SPEAKER_01 56:58

There's your U.S. opportunity.

SPEAKER_06 57:00

Yeah, that exactly. So, yeah, no, and and I mean, it's not to say we only take on projects in the lower mainland. That's where a lot of our contacts and our expertise is with the with the conditions here in the lower mainland and ground conditions and and and the contacts that we have and the way that things are done here, but we're open to other projects. We've done work in northern BC, we've done work in eastern Canada on a couple of projects. Uh, there's the cruise ship piers doing the construction management on that. So, and hey, yeah, you know, I talked about the fact that I've got my my PE. Maybe we'll go into Washington State uh in the near future as well. It's just across the board there, right?

SPEAKER_01 57:31

So Yeah, I mean, hearing you say all that, what's um for people listening who are trying to grow someone around because it's hard to do, yeah, what gives you and the leadership team confidence? Is it the people you have? Is it the process you have? Is it the culture? Is it all bundled into one? You mentioned um, and I think we've all been part of organizations too, where it's like growth for growth's sake and just grabbing people, throw bodies in. So you guys kind of have a good pulse on where you want to go. What gives you that confidence in the team?

SPEAKER_06 57:55

Really, what gives me the confidence on the team is that we're a relationship-based company, right? So a lot of the work we get is through relationships. We'd prefer not to write a proposal ever again if we could, right? And we'd like to rather do things through word of mouth and and through our relationships. And I think that's not only relationships externally with clients and partners, but internally as well. It's keeping those relationships and those values strong uh in our organization and being authentic. I mean, we the part of what uh drew me to Joe and Ziad as as friends back in university is that they're just their ethics and their their uh respect for people and the way they see the world. And it's the same thing in the in the uh construction industry, and that's really or into uh well, the construction industry and into into RAM as a consultant. And I think uh you'd mentioned growth for the sake of growth. That's not what we're interested in, because that's that can quickly um destroy a reputation that we've worked hard to build. So it's getting the right people on board that have a positive attitude, that see the value in relationships, and see the value in remaining transparent and serving our clients to the best of our abilities, right? So um I think it's important again, especially in in the project management side of things that I do is the relationships and the communication. And that and again, that's not only externally to the company, but internally as well. It's just everyone knows the direction we're going, what we like to do, what what our uh our values are, and and we're all pulling in the same direction, right? We're we're we're there to support each other. And RAM really does have a a flat organization to it, and and there's not a lot of you don't have to go through a lot of levels to get a decision made like on a project or and that's internally and externally. If you're a client of ours needs something done, it's something that's it's a decision that can be made very quickly, and also internally. If we like you guys talked about the uh oil tanker versus the the uh wakeboard boat. Yeah, I mean if we want to do something, bam, we do it. It's not, it's not, it doesn't take we don't have to go to corporate and get this signed off. No, it's it we it's just like you know, when you take a look at a project uh, you know, from a project management perspective, and you've got a project plan and you've got the scope defined of what you're gonna do, you always gotta go back to the why of the project and what why are we doing this, and all your decisions have to be based on that. So we take the same approach to RAM. We've got, hey, why are we doing this? What are our values? And any decisions that are made come back to that uh that foundation, right? And it makes things very easy in terms of what kind of decisions you make. And that's what kind of people you're gonna bring on board, what kind of projects you're gonna take on. And the other thing you're talking about, you know, growth for the sake of growth, we've had to turn down a lot of projects because A, we don't have the right people, B, we don't have the capacity, or C, maybe it's just not a project we think is we want to be involved with, right? And it's and it's hard to do when you're when you're a hungry, growing company to turn down work, but sometimes you have to do it and you have to advise your client and say, hey, you know, I don't think we're the right, necessarily the right group for this. Maybe you want to talk to these people, and that's where that vertical construction component comes in. And I've I've I've made a lot of referrals to some of the uh the vertical construction PM groups, and there's some great groups out there, and I'm happy to help uh you know, through referrals. And again, that comes back to the relationship side of things thing is that uh, you know, I we wanna we want to help other um younger, smaller companies like us. Doesn't younger, I mean in terms of age of the company, not of the people, but uh we want to support other that's part of the reason I'm here today is I want to see you guys grow too, right? And thank you. Um and that's uh we got to help each other out, right? And we gotta be, it's it's all about positivity. There's no there's no room, especially that we've seen in in in terms of growing and in uh trying to cut keep other people down. You gotta help each other out because maybe, hey, we don't win on this one and this group does. Well, the next one maybe we're the better team for the job and they'll throw it our way. So it's it's all about uh helping each other out.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:27

Yeah, if quality rises, it'd be really nice if the software industry was like that. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's not.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:33

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:35

This is uh this is great. Um, and before we wrap anything up, um, we do want to jump into the rapid fire round because it's always fun. And it always gets uh our audience uh to know a little bit more about you as well, Jesse. Yeah, you bet. Cool. Okay, so let's get into this right away. Um are you a reader?

SPEAKER_06 1:01:53

I am a reader, definitely I am a reader. And you know, we were talking about this uh earlier. Uh I'm big on the on the podcasts and the books on tape type thing and downloading that. And when I'm driving, that's what I like to listen to, right? Uh especially when if I'm commuting for a project or something like that. I and during the business hours, I like to I like to feel like I'm making use of that time, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:12

So totally yeah. Okay, so in light of that, what's the best book that you read in 2018 or so far in 2019?

SPEAKER_06 1:02:19

You know what? Okay, so I thought about that and uh I was talking to you guys about the Harvard Business Reviews and how they have kind of the summaries of books and articles and stuff like that. That's something that I really like because it's concise. It's you can you you know they're they're not long shows. And it covers a variety of different topics, right? Like I don't like just uh reading or listening to things that are just about engineering or construction, like I like to hear about all different uh things because I think you can apply principles of that to from any uh any industry into what we do uh in construction. But I'd say the one that I've read recently again, and and uh the guys at Ram laughed at me when I said this was the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. I reread that again. It's good, right? Like I try and read that uh, you know, and also um what's that? It's a staple. It is a staple. And I like to, there's a few core books. I'm all about the uh self-development books. Like I love those, and and that's really helped me in terms of you know how how to network with people and and how business works and everything else when I was earlier on in my career. I just tried to read as much as I could to try and feel like I had a little bit of a competitive edge on on the next guy, right? So but that's a book I recently reread because I thought uh it's good to to I I think it's a classic, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:26

So no, absolutely it is for sure. Okay, this is a fun one. What is something that you believe in or that you believe is uh that other people would think is insane?

SPEAKER_06 1:03:35

You know, I have a there's a saying I heard that uh I really believe in is and that is uh working out and being active is like brushing your teeth. You don't think about it, you just do it. And that's something where it kind of comes into the personal training side of me. I'm very, I'm a very active guy, and I think that to keep a clear mind and to to uh be successful uh, you know, as a professional is that you gotta have that that maybe it's not crazy. I guess your question was what do you people think is insane? But some people think, you know, at the end of the day, going and doing the grind or going to the gym at 10 o'clock at night or six in the morning is insane. Like, why would you why are you doing that? Like I I can't function unless I have that physical activity component to me. And some people question that sometimes. So when I took a look at that question, that's what that's what I thought.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:17

So I think a large percentage of people would just hear the word grind that know the gross grind, yeah, and associate it with the word grind. Oh, it sucks, man.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:25

Every every time I do it, there's a point where I'm like, why am I doing this? Honestly, and I do it all the time. And but then when I get to the top, I'm like, yeah, yeah, like you feel good, you achieved something, and it's like almost like a brain dump, too. You know what I mean? Like you I do my best thinking on the grind, I'm telling you. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:40

You know, so I I yeah, totally agree. Get in, get, get into that a little bit. But uh, what is the most important piece of your background that contributes to your position at RAM?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:51

I would say my my project management expertise, like the the experience I've had over the years in project management and on projects, uh, obviously, you know, coming into RAM, getting that that component of RAM uh going uh was important. But I think also just my love, my genuine love of fostering uh new and existing relationships. So just the relationship building side of things and and and um understanding early on that that was an important component of being successful is having those relationships and and growing those and and and and factoring that into the the way that we uh develop our business, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:24

So totally yeah. Okay, with the background that you do have and the leadership position that you're in now at RAM, yeah. What's the most challenging piece of that?

SPEAKER_06 1:05:33

Um that's a good question. I think um, you know, one thing again that I'm tying back to from the it's more on the business development side is really getting people buying into the relation, how important relationships are on in the new generation. And I think it's it's again that's that's getting lost, and it's something that I I kind of struggle with in terms of uh how to best convey that to the to the younger generation that uh you know the whole again, like the tinder approach. Approach to dating and all that kind of stuff. Well, it doesn't lend yourself to the professional world. You need to have those face-to-face conversations. I mean, like Andrew reached out to me and said, Hey, let's have a coffee six months ago. I like that. That's exactly what I do is that you want to be able to make new connections and talk to people face to face. And you know, majority of communication is nonverbal, right? So you can't do it through an email. You need to be there in person. And it, I think for me, it's it's really getting that across to the to the uh the up-and-comers that, hey, you know, it's important to go to these networking events or it's important to support causes that you that you uh believe in. And that's why, you know, we do sponsor events and stuff like that. We want to get out there and show our support and and make those connections and meet meet like uh meet uh like-minded people, right? So I mean a lot of our a lot of our newer uh employees that we brought on board or team members that we brought on board, we've I've met at events or uh other people on the leadership team have met at events or through the industry, and that's that's again, it's it's just like getting projects through referrals. It's good to get employees through referrals.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:58

Your best employees come from internal referrals, exactly. Right? Exactly. So it's good to have that. Yeah, one of our most listened to episodes is uh why relationships matter in construction. Yeah, yeah, it's a lost piece totally almost of that face-to-face. But those that's really good. Um what is something that you know now that you wish you had known when you started at Ram?

SPEAKER_06 1:07:19

You know, that's a good one. And and I think it's the importance of the work-life balance. I mean, I I absolutely love what I do at Ram, and I'm working with you know good friends of mine, so it's hard not to want to stick around the office till eight o'clock at night sometimes, you know what I mean? But I think one thing that was lost on uh, you know, or wish I had known earlier on is just how important it is to keep that work-life balance going. And you know, it I'm obsessed with with with growing Ram and us being successful, but at the same time, it's you don't want to burn out, you know what I mean? Yeah, and you're you're you're a married man here in a yeah, not too long, yeah. There you go. Yeah, getting married in nine days. Yeah, the woman of my dreams. So it's pretty awesome. Yeah, but uh that's awesome. I think it's important. I mean, part of of that relationship for me is is understanding that it's not all about uh um you know winning projects, making money and stuff like that. It's it's about there's there's more to life than that, you know what I mean? And so you need to make that a priority. And that's why, you know, I tied back to the uh you asked me something I think is insane. Like I go, if I'm you know, I go to the gym five times a week and I do the grind once a week, and it's like that's non-negotiable. And so if I if I plan to go to the gym at uh five o'clock and I've got a meeting that and I I don't get home till eight, I go to the gym at eight o'clock. Like it's you know what I mean. So it's it's making that that uh that commitment to physical activity and and keeping your mind clear, and then also you know making time for the important people in your life, right? So um I don't think all the success in the world means nothing if you don't have uh someone to share it with and and and you don't keep your family and your friends close, right? So you don't want to alienate yourself at all.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:52

So totally very very well said, Jesse. Um, last one that's uh one of our favorites is uh this could be funny, this could be informational, it could be like teaching kind of thing. But what is your most memorable or favorite story from the job site, from the field?

SPEAKER_06 1:09:08

Yeah, I was thinking about that, and really there it's a variety of things I saw as an engineer in training or at early in my career from a safety standpoint that I don't want to say we're laughable because there's no there's no joking around with safety, but things that now that I'm aware of what, and there's there's that safety culture I've seen more that's been integrated into the into the industry. But what I saw when I was uh multiple things that I saw when I was a uh uh early in my career, um just in terms of I won't name names or anything, but just in terms of the way some contractors were doing work, and now that I know, holy, like that guy could have died, or that, you know what I mean? It's it's uh to me the the the safety culture is something that um I when I look back at those those situations and it makes me appreciate really what you gotta be safety conscious at all times, and and it's something again that me personally went round that we take uh very seriously. And so when I I think back about memorable things I've seen on the job site, I've seen I saw some things earlier on where they were really sacrificing safety to uh in terms of productivity, you know what I mean? And I don't I think that's the wrong way to approach things. You gotta you have to be safety-centric at all times.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:18

So no, no, that's good. Um yeah, safety is definitely not a uh laughing thing. No, no. Um but it's memorable, right? But it is memorable, yeah. Yeah, and on the lighter side, there there are some uh a couple of Instagram accounts about uh interesting safety things happening on site. Oh man, it's I followed it. You're watching and you're like, I shouldn't be watching this, but I want to see if that thing falls off. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, oh man, but no, I totally get it, and that's awesome. Clearly, uh you are safety-minded, Ram is safety-minded. You bet. And uh you guys are a very forward-thinking uh organization. And um, yeah, I don't know if there's anything else that you guys want to chat or close with. Anything you want to say to our audience about yourself, about Ram?

SPEAKER_06 1:10:59

Yeah, I just want to say, you know, we we're we're very proud at Ram at what we've done and and where we're going. And uh we're located at uh 409 Gramble Street, Unit 700, so seventh floor. Come up, visit us anytime, and uh feel free to add uh, like I said, add me on LinkedIn, uh Jesse Yunkey, or uh feel free, you know, you can also uh email me anytime at Ram. So my email is uh Jesse J-E-S-S-E dot U N-K E at Ram Consulting all one word dot com. And um happy to uh answer any questions or that anyone has about Ram, or if you think we can help you out in some way, we're happy to do so. And uh like I said, our door is always open to for visitors to come check out, get a tour of the office, play a game of foosball, or got a foosball table there.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:40

So yeah. We'll make sure to get all this in the show notes because I know it's super important to get connected and all that kind of stuff for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:45

Is there a wide open invitation for the Gross Crime every Wednesday?

SPEAKER_06 1:11:47

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, hey, you know what? I'm quite in interested, yeah. It's funny because I was talking talking trash to some of the younger guys in the office. Like, oh yeah, you know, and then they I brought a couple of them out with me, and one of them just smoked me so hard, like beat me by like 10 minutes, and I yeah, so I had to shut up. Comfortable sharing your best time? My best time's 51 minutes. Okay, yeah, right, respectable. 215 pounds. Um a lot of weight to move up. There's that's my best time. I'm not I'm not saying I'm doing those times right now. I can I can do it in under an hour, normally in about 58 minutes. But uh, but some of these guys, man, holy, like, you know, first time out, they're doing it in like 48 minutes, and I'm sitting there, you know, thinking I'm like sub 50 is, yeah. Oh yeah, if I could get under 50, like my best time all uh like ever is 51. If I get under 50, I'd be amazed. That'd be awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:33

Yeah, it's it's hard to total tie things up here, but like uh rite of passage if you're uh uh into this outdoors thing in Vancouver, in North Vancouver, the gross grind. It's a rite of passage for people who want getting outdoors. Totally.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:45

Don't don't do it in dress shoes either. It's uh I'm amazed. No, I'm amazed there's there's uh tourists that go there. I think they think it's a walk in the park. They got like dress shoes and pants on, and they're sitting at the quartermark, and I'm thinking, oh man, that sucks. Like that's yeah, that's not gonna be comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:59

Awesome. Well, Jesse, it was fantastic having you on. Thanks for having me this again. And we look forward to yeah, kind of uh building this relationship ongoing. Absolutely. Yeah, you guys are welcome to come by anytime. Fantastic. Thanks, Jesse.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:10

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:13

Thanks for listening to The Site Visit, a podcast dedicated to leadership in construction with perspective from the job site. If you like the show, please subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, or Google Play. To learn more, check us out online at thesitevisit.com.