Buildex 2024 D2E13 | Embracing Technological Evolution in the Construction Industry with Shawn Naidu from Matra Construction

Discover the inner workings of a sector on the cusp of a digital revolution as Shawn Naidu from Matra Construction shares his insights on the monumental shift from age-old practices to cutting-edge technology. We promise an enlightening journey where Shawn peels back the layers of tradition to expose the glimmering potential of tools like SiteMax. Together, we discuss the delicate dance of blending the reliability of Excel with innovative software, and how sub-trades each carve their distinct paths through this technological renaissance.

Venture with us into the heart of the construction industry's cultural fabric, where the concept of tribalism takes center stage. Shawn and James dissect the generational divides and office-field dynamics, especially highlighted in a post-pandemic remote work era. We tackle the challenges of adopting new technologies head-on, addressing the anxiety and excitement that comes with the territory. It's an honest look at how adaptability is not just a buzzword but the lifeblood of progress in a sector traditionally resistant to change.

Our conversation takes a turn towards the practical, as we explore 'project consciousness' and strategies Matra Construction employs to unite their workforce—a testament to the power of breaking down barriers for collective success. Shawn's anecdotes provide a window into the world of managing projects amidst the discretion of non-disclosure agreements, painting a picture of a company that juggles client confidentiality with the drive to stay at the industry's forefront. Tune in for a compelling episode that bridges the gap between upholding a competitive edge and the fundamental mission of building that defines the construction sector.

PODCAST INFO:
the Site Visit Website: https://www.sitemaxsystems.com/podcast
the Site Visit on Buzzsprout: https://thesitevisit.buzzsprout.com/269424
the Site Visit on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-site-visit/id1456494446
the Site Visit on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5cp4qJE5ExZmO3EwldN1HH

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome to the Site. Visit podcast. Leadership and perspective from construction With your host, James Faulkner.

Speaker 2: 0:10

Live from BuildX Vancouver 2024.

Speaker 1: 0:23

Sean hello, how are you? Doing well doing well, james, how you doing Good. So Nadeu Sean Nadeu, nadeu Nadeu.

Speaker 2: 0:30

You already messed it up. Okay, let's cut that.

Speaker 1: 0:33

No, let's walk in, apparently, your dad's going to disown me. We're not even related, yet that's right, so that's good. So from matric construction, yes, sir. So how's things been going over there?

Speaker 2: 0:43

Amazing, amazing. I've been part of the team for geez. You know, I don't know. A month it's going to be eight years, eight years.

Speaker 1: 0:50

Eight years yeah, that's a long haul Doing anything.

Speaker 2: 0:53

That's right. Probably about 40, 50 pounds later when I joined A lot more black hairs, but despite my appearance, it's been a blast. It's a great team and I'm really pumped to be a part of the family there.

Speaker 1: 1:05

That's cool. We actually, kelsey, shared an image of you guys have a I think it's a Lululemon project you guys are doing that's right. And then there's the board with all the QR codes that you guys have generated out of SiteMax, yeah, and everyone's doing their thing on that. It's pretty amazing to see it is.

Speaker 1: 1:21

It is, you know, like seeing an image like that, you know, from starting this company and watching you guys work with that that way it's like such a cool thing to see. So thank you guys very much for that engagement and seeing that Such a great thing.

Speaker 2: 1:35

Of course I know we're huge fans. We have been raving about the company to anybody that asks us. Sometimes we do it without being asked.

Speaker 1: 1:43

Ask, sorry, that's very nice, thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:45

But yeah, it's been a huge help for our field staff or administrative staff and everybody in the whole.

Speaker 1: 1:51

Nice, so that's pretty cool. So so you're a really good example of somebody to ask. In terms of adoptive technology, it doesn't matter if it's SiteMax or Procore or Autodesk, it doesn't matter what it is how has that, what's that journey been like? Has it been difficult, has it? How do you get everyone to kind of buy in, do it? And how much pressure from top down Can you really apply to that without breaking attitudes and breaking people's attention in general to the end product of the job itself?

Speaker 2: 2:27

Yeah, it's a great question. Obviously, a lot of it comes top down. A lot of it is seeing what the Jones are doing and trying to keep up. I think a lot of in terms of how the technology gets adapted is how easy is it to use.

Speaker 1: 2:46

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:46

How powerful is it? How proficient is it? Does it make your life easier? And tools like SiteMax and some of the other tools we use they do that, so it's not as difficult to transition. I might be a bad example, because I still use Excel for my budgets and my spreadsheets.

Speaker 1: 3:01

Fair enough.

Speaker 2: 3:02

We've pivoted, we've tried some other tools and technologies out there, but I personally just seem to revert back.

Speaker 1: 3:08

Is it because of the agility of those Exactly? Because that's where it is right, you're not stuck in some format.

Speaker 2: 3:13

Yeah, it's extremely malleable Right. A lot of times we're seeing the industry trend towards construction management contracts and we can talk about that a little bit later, but especially when we're doing a stip sum and the clock's ticking and you've got five minutes and you're getting your last numbers coming in, Excel just gives you some malleability and agility, like you mentioned, and you're able to manipulate cells and formulas really quickly.

Speaker 1: 3:35

Yeah, and you can make your own formulas, do your own thing. You might even have your own little inventions you've done in there and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1: 3:40

That's right. It's interesting, you know, when we talk about why many construction companies do so many different things and you guys probably see this a little bit more with particular sub-trades, for instance, sub-trades, there's not many industries where a bunch of businesses show up with their own processes to a business trying to do something Right. So there's no way you can go and say to your sub-trade, no, you go and do all your own records our way. You can say some of them are your way, but they're going to have their own records and the things that they need to do for their own processes to pay their own people, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 1: 4:25

So and I found that and we have a lot of sub-trades and using Sitemax and, just like you were saying, the agility and malleability of an Excel spreadsheet a lot of companies have not necessarily come out of professional training of running a business Right, and this is more on the sub-trade side. They end up they start with a particular trade or skill and it turns into a business. They ended up hiring their brother, they hired their cousin. Now their sister-in-law now does the accounting and it's all this kind of a thing and they end up inventing stuff because they didn't all go to school to run their business a certain way, and we're all trained with a united kind of outcome, right? So they end up with inventions of how they do their business and then they go to a SaaS platform and they go well, that's not how we do things.

Speaker 1: 5:23

Actually, no one does it how you do it, right, right, right, because you invented it, that's right. So they're like, yeah, but we've been doing this for 10 years and we do $20, $30 million in sales. We've been doing it since 1990, whatever, and it's worked for them. Right, and they're being mandated into something else. So what? On your side with MATRA, and you worked with Symax, et cetera, and you've probably looked at a lot of other things, some projects. You get asked to use something else, obviously, and that can happen. So what's that sort of how have you seen the landscape from your side of things as a customer?

Speaker 2: 6:03

That's a great question. So, in terms of interfacing with our trade partners, yeah, we really partner with them and so we're really fortunate where I'm at a position where I get to leverage relationships that our companies have with these trades for years and these people frankly right.

Speaker 2: 6:23

So a lot of times they do adopt our systems. Yeah, sorry, just drooling like they're. A lot of times they do adopt our systems, unless they're doing something that might be even more proficient, and then we'll let them kind of carry on their way as long as it fits into what we're trying to achieve at the end of the day. So we don't often get a ton of pushback from our trades. We use the same partners over and over again.

Speaker 1: 6:48

So they get used to it.

Speaker 2: 6:49

So they get used to it and we don't have a lot of that friction that you might have otherwise. I don't know if that answers your question.

Speaker 1: 6:55

It does, yeah no, it totally does. So we were talking quite a bit along the podcast and some of the themes that I've been noticing or have been going on is why construction is so slow to adopt new, like really cutting edge technologies, and some of the responses we've had is because they're busy building stuff. Yeah, you know, like they don't have. If you're going to try something else, you have to do something twice. That's right, right, which sucks. You have to do the thing that is actually your compliance and all of the processes. You need to actually build the thing you're doing to get paid, right. And then you're like, oh well, try this other thing. It's like, okay, well, karen, mike and Stephanie now have to do something twice. It's like that sucks.

Speaker 2: 7:33

And they don't want to do that.

Speaker 1: 7:35

Yeah, absolutely. And half the time you're like, okay, well, I've got to do this, I've got to engage my, I've got to ask my staff to do something more without paying them more. I know that sounds crazy, but they're having to make their day harder for the benefit of the business, which is a little bit tough, right? When you think about you know, do I have to? Why do I have to take one for the team, Right? Does that make sense, right?

Speaker 2: 8:04

Right? No, it does, it does absolutely.

Speaker 1: 8:05

You've got to be a real into the company to be able to. You know, my day was twice as hard for someone else's benefit.

Speaker 2: 8:11

That's right, yeah, and you know, further compounding, that is, we have stakeholders, who also have people that they answer to, and if you told them we're demoing some technology and that's why we're slowed down, that's not their problem.

Speaker 1: 8:24

I know exactly.

Speaker 2: 8:25

It's not the problem with the reporting too. So I think that goes back to what I mentioned earlier with as long as the tool is. I don't want to say easy to use, but for a lack of better words I'll say easy to use, yeah, and efficient, and you can see where it's heading and you can accept that it's heading to a good place. It's a lot easier to sell and get people to adopt it. Yeah, and that's something you'd find with.

Speaker 1: 8:48

SiteMax. Frankly. Well, thank you very much. I appreciate that. I mean there's something where I have an example, like I always think, about building stuff and the especially in the field. It really is about you have to become the nail gun of technology. Right, you know you can sit there and you can. It's got to be better than lining up a nail and heading it with a hammer. If you're got a, you're winning, because the things you know on a roll and how much faster is that Way faster. So we always I mean Julian, who you guys know you've worked quite a bit with, he's always like how are we the nail gun here? Right, we need to be the nail gun on every single piece, because if we're not, we're not doing it. That's right. So it's got to create that efficiency. So in the field, how do you guys have a bring your own device program, or do you guys supply everyone with phones, or how does that all work?

Speaker 2: 9:46

Yeah, it's a little bit up onto the employees. Kelsey's probably better suited to answer this. But for the phones, we'll. We'll supply the guys with phones unless they have their own plan and they got some crazy scookum data plan that they want to keep you know, then we'll compensate them for oh, I see that's cool for what they're spending In terms of personal tools Bring your own bill.

Speaker 2: 10:05

Yeah, yeah, kind of kind of. Yeah, In terms of tools, there are some tools that the company will supply. There is a minimum expectation that our field staff also provide for themselves. Yeah, Obviously, you know we help out with like maintenance and whatnot and replacement of some stuff, and then we actually have a catalog of the tools that MATCH provides on Sitemax. Yeah, and we can tag it for when maintenance is due, when it needs to be replaced, what the condition of it is. Okay cool. Yeah, that's kind of how we're treating that right now.

Speaker 1: 10:32

Yeah, nice, that's cool. I mean, that's on the sort of handheld tools kind of situation. Yeah exactly Do people bring their own tools, too, that they like? Some of them do Really Like they're like I only use Milwaukee, I'm not working otherwise, that's right. Well, that's kind of cool.

Speaker 2: 10:44

That's right. Yeah, it's like a chef with their knives, right, they want to. They want to do what they're comfortable with.

Speaker 1: 10:48

Do you know what? There's always something that I was I mean before Sitemax, wayne. A lot of people have had multiple careers, but mine for many years was I was a brand strategist and all those like figuring out what motivates people to do the things they do. Right, and you always think of brands as like something that is a consumer brand. Like he has a work in the Lululemon, there's a privety sample, somebody, oh, I only wear Lulu, or whatever. It is Right.

Speaker 1: 11:12

But I find that you could consider construction being blue collar. And just for you know, just for you know, category is this? Culture is the most brand allegiance? Yes, like, it's like I only like I'm a DeWalt guy, I'm a Milwaukee, I'm a Makita, that's right. Like I don't. Or a Ram, or a Ford, I don't go anywhere else, yeah, so it's crazy how there's they're stuck in the ways of this is what? So the I was fine. When a culture is really stuck to that, it's almost like an extension of their identity. Is that I only use this kind of stuff? So that's obviously what we're, we're hopefully trying to do with Symax. It's a lot difficult to do in software because you don't have that, that response, in your hand. You don't hear it.

Speaker 1: 12:06

you don't feel it. There's no grip, there's no. It's kind of this wow, what is this thing? Ha, ha, ha Did it work.

Speaker 2: 12:12

It didn't work, it's exactly exactly.

Speaker 1: 12:13

So, yeah, so that's pretty cool. So do you see, maybe let's just talk on a little bit on the speed of innovation in construction at MATRA. When you come to a trade show like this, are your eyes kind of open where you're going? Okay, I could see this later, but not now. Is there a lot of that going on? You can build your dreams in a way.

Speaker 2: 12:39

Yeah, definitely. We see some things that we think are awesome fits now. We see some things that we think can be fits in the future. A big thing, frankly, I get out of coming to trade shows is just the networking, just meet with people.

Speaker 1: 12:54

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 12:55

A lot of times we think of this industry as just building and companies interacting with each other, but at the end of the day it's people, new, relationship building. I think for me that's my biggest benefit out of these sort of events. That's cool, totally steered away from the technology talking at trade shows. Thanks, sean.

Speaker 1: 13:14

Yeah, eventually it was really evident. Yesterday we got invited to the CLF's little mixer over there when the show was winding down with like 3.30 or 3.30. Just the people shaking hands again does not feel better. So good God, I was so done with this whole. I hate to be a naysayer about people who are crazy. I don't know, I guess you could call it it's called them germaphobes for now Germaphobes.

Speaker 2: 13:42

yeah, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 1: 13:43

I'm not a nondrax. Whatever Right, you're still walking out of the mask on Right God, maybe you didn't like how it was before, right, maybe you never liked it, I think uh. This is your kryptonite or something.

Speaker 2: 13:57

Yeah, I think I don't know if Trigger is the right word, but seeing somebody drive in a car by themselves with a mask on is like one of those.

Speaker 1: 14:05

Yeah, like no one's in the car.

Speaker 2: 14:06

Yeah, nobody else is in the car, it's just like okay, look away before you get off the car. What is going on here, right?

Speaker 1: 14:10

Yeah, right, are you protecting us?

Speaker 2: 14:16

Are you protecting somebody who's going to get in the car, maybe in the future? I don't know. It's just odd, I don't know they definitely are driving evos, that's for sure.

Speaker 1: 14:23

I don't think they'd even be able to touch the outside of the door, but so maybe can you touch on adopting technology. What are the challenges? You think, maybe, that you guys didn't have? You were maybe worried about that other companies are dealing with.

Speaker 2: 14:48

Yeah, I think we touched on a couple of them. One is having to do something twice, yeah, because you're going to do it in this new software and it might not work properly, it might not look like how the person at the end is expecting to see it, so that's definitely something that can be a challenge In terms. On top of doing it twice, it's time spent that you're learning how to use a tool that you could be spending working potentially right, yeah. So your day is a little bit longer now and if it's not a smooth trip, maybe you're getting a little frustrated. There's, maybe, anxiety that you spend a whole lot of time learning to adopt something that in a year or two, might not be used anymore.

Speaker 1: 15:32

Oh, yeah or might not. It's like why did I bother, kind of thing. Yeah, we're not going to use this later, so why am I soaking up my time? That's right?

Speaker 2: 15:38

Well, I mean, we talked about it earlier. We're all creatures of habit. We all have a certain way we like to navigate life. We talked about chefs with their knives, tradesmen with their tools for playing hockey or any sort of sports.

Speaker 1: 15:53

You'll have an equipment line that you like to use. It's either CCM or something else Exactly.

Speaker 2: 15:56

Yeah, exactly so. I think it's trying to get over that. And there's also anxiety. If you're the unknown, you're using something new, right, you're just not in your happy, safe, comfortable spot.

Speaker 1: 16:05

You dig into that a little bit like the anxiety of the unknown. How does that manifest itself with most people that you've found that?

Speaker 2: 16:14

Right, I don't know. I mean, if we're going to go off on a tangent, it probably comes down to a little bit of tribalism and surviving you know the unknowns come.

Speaker 1: 16:24

It's a little unnerving, because this is human nature.

Speaker 2: 16:26

Right, exactly.

Speaker 1: 16:27

So yeah, so would you say, in construction there are certain tribes, then yeah, I think it's definitely in the industry, I think.

Speaker 2: 16:36

so we've had an older generation that's kind of retiring. We have a whole lot of work here.

Speaker 1: 16:41

Is that like Lion King stuff, where they got the old guy?

Speaker 2: 16:45

The old guys that were peak here. Mufasa, yeah, I think it's Mufasa, mufasa, yeah.

Speaker 1: 16:50

Well, he was the nasty one, right.

Speaker 2: 16:52

Oh no, he was the good one. He was the good one. Yeah, those were Mufasa. He got Scar oh Scar. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1: 16:58

Oh man, what were we talking about there? Tribalism, yeah you were talking about. You got some of the generation that is kind of like probably holding on to old ways.

Speaker 2: 17:05

Yeah, exactly, and so a lot of them are leaving the industry, and then we've got a whole ton of work that's out on the market, and so we've almost been forced to bring in people and market to individuals who might not necessarily get into construction. And so I do feel like our anxiety of keeping with the same and being comfortable all the time is going just by nature of we need to diversify the workforce and have people come in that might not typically have gone into construction and they'll have their own ways of doing things. But it's forced diversity, really. It's forced diversity Because they just need the jobs filled. That's right.

Speaker 1: 17:41

Right, ok, there's just too much work and not enough people. Yeah, right.

Speaker 2: 17:44

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 17:45

Yeah, so let's just talk. So is there a? So you've been in this for eight years.

Speaker 2: 17:52

Matt right eight years. I worked at a developer's office for about three years before that.

Speaker 1: 17:57

OK.

Speaker 2: 17:58

I've been in one company for a year and then worked with a friend and their family building.

Speaker 1: 18:02

Because we're talking 12 to 15 years almost. Yeah, ok, so that's cool. So is there a definite tribal difference between field and office?

Speaker 2: 18:13

Yeah, it's like lost when they ran into the outsiders or the others. Oh yeah, not on the show, can we? So there definitely can be, and I think coming out of COVID you felt it again. I know when I joined Metro, one of my favorite things about the company was the cohesiveness of everything. It was really like a family not that it isn't now, but COVID happened and all of a sudden there was the separation between the field and the office. A lot of people are working from home.

Speaker 1: 18:41

Well, in the field you can't, in the field you can't. So there's like an inherent right. Yeah, absolutely that an office person gets to choose and they can't Right totally, which sucks right.

Speaker 2: 18:50

Totally. And then on top of that we've got certain protocols where people coming into the office and visitors are using one door and you're being here and you're leaving. So not that there was a division, but a separation, a little bit right, I think it's kind of normal. And then when we came back to the office the office staff you kind of huddle in your little alcove and the field staff come in and it's a little awkward. You haven't seen each other in a few years.

Speaker 1: 19:15

Yeah, like, where have you been? Yeah, we've been working. We've been working on our sites for a couple of years. We've been making the money, we've been building the stuff. That's right.

Speaker 2: 19:24

So we definitely have made a more concerted effort, and I think that's where Kelsey comes in. She's our office manager at the HR in the ownership. So we're starting to get back to what we used to do previously. It was a lot of activities together, Paintballing. I think we're going bowling in a couple of weeks.

Speaker 2: 19:40

Nice, that's really cool Golf tournament dinners, that sort of thing, Barbecues at the office. So it's really important, I think, for us to bridge whatever gap may have formed, because at the end of the day, we all like to think we're really important in the office, but people pay us to build things for them and the people in the field are the ones building the things for them. We're just there to support them.

Speaker 1: 20:02

So how much of your work is self-performance? How much do you sub out? What do you think that percentage is? Because it depends on the job.

Speaker 2: 20:08

Great question I get asked all the time. I think I give everybody a different number.

Speaker 1: 20:12

Different projects, different things.

Speaker 2: 20:14

Yeah, totally. I'd say the vast majority is subbed out. If I had to put a percentage to it, let's call it 90%. We'll do carpentry, in-house rough carpentry, the finishing stuff. We'll also sub that out to a mill workshop and then labor and cleaning and site supervision and a lot of our safety officers.

Speaker 1: 20:33

Yeah, right. So what's kind of interesting about the different tribes? Is that one of the things that started SiteMax? I don't know if you know this origin story. It's kind of interesting. But after getting rid of digital cameras and getting rid of laptops and getting an iPad app and then all the images that were coming in from the job, we created something called Project View and this was a Google page that you would load up on and you would stream it into your big screen TV and we had this at the construction company that we worked on with SiteMax.

Speaker 1: 21:16

Before SiteMax was SiteMax and the point of this was to engage the office to understand what's going on in the field. So at that time they had a reception desk and the lady would be behind the reception desk and she would always greet field workers when they would come in and they might be picking up a check or doing something or coming into the office for some reason for a meeting or whatever it was. But the office always knew, even if they weren't interacting with the field I'm obviously project coordinators and project managers are interfacing all the time, but there are other people in the company accounting whatever. They never talked to those people, right, and even sometimes the presidents or the VPs and all that. They're not talking to them either, right, and there's kind of this project consciousness that kind of gets lost. So they even forget that John Smith was here and his project's like 80% complete.

Speaker 1: 22:11

What does it look like? Well, they haven't been to the site and especially if you're doing stuff indoors, you can't drive up to it and look at it. Building looks the same, building looks the same, but stuff going on inside, that's right. So the cool thing is is that this project view basically gave project consciousness around the culture of work and the culture of projects, of what was going on, and that worked really well. And that's sort of how Sitemax started, because a sub trade came in and said what is that? Yeah, and that's this thing we built.

Speaker 1: 22:39

And that's how it went, so the ball has been interested in how you break down tribal barriers between office and field. Yeah, yeah, so it's pretty cool.

Speaker 2: 22:52

Yeah, I think it's almost I don't want to say forced mingling, but you got to bring the people together. You do, yeah, and at the end of the day, we've got an amazing team both in the office and in the field. Our fan, who heads up our business development and estimating side of things, always says him and I have the easiest job in the world because we have a group of people who work on what we're pricing out and trying to get, who care so much about what they're doing that our clients just want to keep working with us over and over again, yeah, and so we're really fortunate that we have again an amazing group good people.

Speaker 1: 23:25

That's awesome. Okay, so just a little plug on MATRA then. So let's just talk about that for a sec.

Speaker 2: 23:29

Okay.

Speaker 1: 23:31

A specialty, if I mean maybe that's sort of change or it's just sort of a business you're going for right now. Maybe just give a little pitch so everyone knows what MATRA is like. What's your sweet spot?

Speaker 2: 23:40

Absolutely. I'd say that our bread and butter is Office TI's. Yeah, corporate office space, yeah, probably makes up about 70% of our revenue. I'd say we do a little bit of retail, mostly the major banks locally. Yeah, we'll do some landlord work, really happy to work with all the major landlords in Vancouver. Yeah, that's probably another 10, 15% of our revenue. But yeah, we're a general contracting CM firm. We work with a lot of tech companies. So movie production companies, yeah.

Speaker 2: 24:12

I don't know which NDAs we've got signed, so we're going to be very careful on what names I drop.

Speaker 1: 24:15

You don't have to say anything, but also yes, what can we do between the lines?

Speaker 2: 24:18

Yeah, I'm an amazing Vancouver based at Leisure Company. We're working on their campus right now. I did mention that name, so you're safe. So very, very exciting stuff. Yeah, yeah, what's up? The website is wwwmatraca. Perfect. We just launched it, like two years ago. It's ironic I'm on a technology podcast because I think we've been very, not averse, but slow. We just launched an Instagram page.

Speaker 1: 24:44

Oh cool.

Speaker 2: 24:45

I don't have the link there, but I can provide that.

Speaker 1: 24:46

I'm sure you can find that that's right. Yeah, Well, that's awesome, John. Well, thank you for coming on. We appreciate your business. Thank you very much and welcome to BuildX.

Speaker 2: 24:54

Absolutely Thanks, james. It's a pleasure, thank you.

Speaker 1: 25:04

Well, that does it for another episode of the site business. Thank you for listening. Be sure to stay connected with us by following our social accounts on Instagram and YouTube. You can also sign up for a monthly newsletter at sitemaxsystemscom slash the site visit, where you'll get industry insights, pro tips and everything you need to know about the Site Visit podcast and Site Max, the job site and construction management tool of choice for thousands of contractors in North America and beyond. Site Max is also the engine that powers this podcast. All right, let's get back to building.