The Story of a Dynamic & Growing Family Construction Company

Bryan Reid, President of Kindred Construction. Bryan shares the journey of Kindred from humble beginnings to a diversified construction company with over 100 staff and high profile projects all across Western Canada. 

This episode is filled with exciting stories and the history of how Kindred became who they are today: a diversified and growing family construction business. We chat with Bryan and learn about his career journey from a laborer on a job site, to practicing lawyer across the globe, to the current President of Kindred Construction. Bryan shares what makes Kindred special and what he is excited about in the future. This is a great episode to learn the story of what makes a great construction company and the importance of family values, corporate culture and smart growth. 

About Kindred Construction: 

Founded in 1980 Kindred Construction is a diversified general contractor and construction management firm serving Western Canada. With over $2.5B in construction volume delivered, Kindred has built a reputation of trust and quality.  Known for craftsmanship, family values, and a partnership approach, Kindred is a leader in the market. 

http://www.kindredconstruction.com/ 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:00

Welcome to the Site Visit Podcast. Leadership in Construction with Perspective from the job site. Your host, Andrew Hansen, James Faulkner, and Christian Hammond. Let's get down to it. Okay, here we are, another episode. Guest out. Always excited. Oh yeah. Nice. Okay, so another message from Christian. Go for it. It's from the whole team.

SPEAKER_05 0:34

But yeah, this episode is once again brought to you by BuildX Vancouver.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 0:41

And that's because it's nearly here. Like it's just around the corner, as in like a day away.

SPEAKER_01 0:45

When is it again?

SPEAKER_05 0:46

February 12th and 13th. That is a Wednesday and a Thursday. And what is it? And guys, it's good. It's not too late to go get your tickets. BuildX Vancouver is Western Canada's largest forum for connecting the holistic building industry, uniting tradition and innovation to shape the spaces of tomorrow. Sounds good. It brings together sounds really good.

SPEAKER_06 1:10

I want to go. Oh, we are going to be there. We are. Let's like Brazil will be there too.

SPEAKER_05 1:15

It does it well. It brings together talent from across the industry to interact, learn, and discover the newest innovations of a market in constant transformation. BuildX provides architecture and engineering, construction, interior design, and property management professionals a meaningful place to immerse themselves in dialogue, build community, and of course, gain industry, knowledge and advancement. And they can do this because there's like breakup sessions and they run all day, and there's over 200 booths that are going to be there. And our booth.

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Yeah, I mean, we talk about this in most of our episodes, but educating, bringing our community together, and it's in our backyard, and it's gonna be a great time.

SPEAKER_05 1:56

It's always a good, it's always a good time. Build X Vancouver goes to the uh City of Vancouver's passive house uh display as well as Tech Centric, which is where we'll be, and uh that's gonna have great speakers all day long. So again, Andrew, where do they go?

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Buildxvancouver.com.

SPEAKER_05 2:13

Boom. Sweet. Okay.

SPEAKER_06 2:15

And we're gonna be there. Like we we gotta keep telling people that we're gonna be there. We've got this whole setup's gonna be there. It's gonna be pretty sweet. Yeah. So people can say hello to us and we can uh introduce people to other people, and it's gonna be a really good community of people to talk to me on.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

That's good. Booth 1815 right by the tech center. We're gonna be there doing live episodes.

SPEAKER_05 2:37

Boom. Okay, something else that's really cool. Not to get too long-winded here, but for our listeners, we are launching a weekly newsletter. Yeah, this is gonna be a good one though. It's gonna start off, we're gonna use it to deliver um just the great content from each of the episodes and our guests. Kind of the leadership nuggets and key points, quotables, sound bites, shareables, all that kind of stuff. But no, the purpose is to create a lot of value, not noise, and to just do this on a weekly basis. So you guys can expect that consistently in your inbox, or you can visit our website, sitevisit.com, that sitevisit.com, uh, for more, and you can subscribe. Uh this thing is growing, and uh we really appreciate everyone listening. And subscribing and reading our upcoming newsletter.

SPEAKER_06 3:28

We do learn a lot of stuff here that I think that uh in this newsletter, being able to have something factually in front of you that you could reference back to rather than having trying to figure out where on a podcast it was, what minutes, etc. It's really good to have this like some sort of record.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Yeah, it's awesome. Each episode there's so much that we unpack, we learn about, and you know, bringing those show notes in, bringing those details in. Um we've been asked to do it, and we thought, let's do it.

SPEAKER_05 3:55

Yeah, because it's gonna be sweet.

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Okay, so today's episode is awesome. We have episode 26, and we have Brian Reed from Kinder Construction. Um, this is an episode we just talk about kinder construction, the growth they've had uh really over the last 40 plus years, and how as a business they've kind of evolved from a family construction company to a diversified large-scale builder in Vancouver. And with Brian, we talk about his journey, his personal career path, um, all the places he's been and where he is today leading the organization. And we unpack the momentum that Kindred has established, how they got there, the people behind the business, and what's making them special. And it's just a great episode where kind of Brian opens up about who they are, what they're trying to be. And uh it's a great episode just to learn about Kindred and learn about what makes a great builder and what's on the mind of leaders of construction companies like Kindred. It's one of my favorites. Right on. So let's get to it.

SPEAKER_05 4:57

Okay, we are back. Got uh myself, Christian, Andrew, James, and we're joined by Brian Reed from Kindred today this morning. Brian, welcome to uh the site visit.

SPEAKER_02 5:08

Thank you very much for having me.

SPEAKER_05 5:09

Really excited to be here. We we braved the slush snow. The slush snow.

SPEAKER_01 5:14

You had snow out there?

SPEAKER_05 5:16

Uh yeah, a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Oh really? It said it's supposed to be 20 centimeters, but it retreated.

SPEAKER_05 5:22

Yeah, it came and went pretty quick as it does in Vancouver.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

Yeah, so we're excited for today's show to have uh Brian from Kindred on. Um kind of how this all came about was uh I was downtown, I think on a shoot with SiteMax, we're filming a video, and uh just driving around downtown, scouting locations, and I was in my truck and all of a sudden I drove up to a site and I looked up and it was a Kindred site, big tower, nice, I think mixed use product. Drove around a little bit more, found myself another construction site, looked up, another Kindred site, did it again. I think it happened three times that day, and I'm like, where did Kindred come from? And so I got back to my office that day and I put a note, like, send Kindred an email. And I emailed Brian, I think we'd connected on LinkedIn or something, I just shot him a note and said, Hey, I was downtown, and I actually listed I think the locations and I was, you know, would love to have you on our podcast, just talk about the growth of Kindred because something unique's probably happened in the last 24 to 36 months, and wanted to get the Kindred story, and we met for a quick coffee, and you're open and transparent and kind of about your journey, and we went back and forth on dates, and everyone's got busy schedules and construction. I think we were talking in like November or even October, and we booked it for February. And today's the day, and kind of excited to learn more about the Kindred story, have you on the podcast and uh unpack a bit of your journey and where you guys came from and kind of where you're going. Fantastic. Looking forward to it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:45

The uh that 24 months is definitely I've noticed something because um we were introduced to your dad um via uh one of the partners at SiteMax. Okay. And it used to be like, yeah, talk to Dick Reed at uh at Kindred, and then that turned into last time I called him, he's like, talk to my sons. Right. Yeah. And that and that's how it changed because you could tell there was a handing off at the guard there.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Yeah, I think that's a hand off. The the handoff has been um a a very gradual process until it wasn't. Um and Dick built this company, he's in the fabric of everything that we do. Uh it's been 40 years of his life. Uh, so we hope that he always uh sticks around and um knows just enough to be dangerous and involved in our projects. Uh what has happened is that when you're not there in the weeds every single day, you simply can't be involved in all of those decisions and the little things that have everything to do with how the business is going to succeed. And I think that transition was probably about four-ish years ago or so. Right. Um, and then prior to that, it was very much uh it was still Dick's sandbox.

SPEAKER_01 7:54

Awesome. So jumping right into it, what is the kind of story of Kindred when a new employee or when a customer asks you that question in the business development process? I know there's probably a super long answer and a short one. Maybe we hit right in the middle. Okay. What's uh yeah, what's that story?

SPEAKER_02 8:10

So Dick's background is in the uh forest products industry. Um, he was getting tired of travel throughout uh Eastern Seaboard. Uh he was based out of here in Montreal. Um, and so we decided to take a break. And while he was taking a break, one of his buddies, dad, asked Dick if, you know, idle hands, devil's workshop sort of thing, said that he would get bored if he wasn't doing something and said, so why don't you just do a renovation of my house? To which Dick's response was, I'm not a builder, I've never built. Uh, but reluctantly jumped into it. And as he would describe it, 40 years later, he woke up a builder. Um, and so I think it was it was very much a fortuitous thing that he fell into something that he really enjoyed. And he also found that it was an opportunity to stay close to home, build a business, sort of jump into that entrepreneurial um endeavor that he'd always been looking for. And so from there it was just a real gradual sort of um, I guess, growth. Uh, it was exclusively single family custom uh construction management work. Um you know, you do a good project for somebody at that time, uh, they trust you regardless of the build form. Um so it's not if you build spaceships, then you can build my spaceship. It was you're very good and you're trustworthy, let's do something else. And so it allowed him to jump into smaller scale retail, perhaps a couple single families, townhouses. And it just went from there. Um but the change to a more broad-based commercial standpoint probably happened in the mid-90s for Dick, early 90s, um, where Kindred was at least somewhat recognizable on the landscape. You'd see their signs a little bit more often, you'd see them doing projects that were of scale that permitted them to be on a thoroughfare rather than in the backwoods. Um and that was really where things sat. There was no general contracting, very rarely would Dick do anything at risk. Um, and then I joined the company and things shifted then. Uh so my background sorry, that was how many years ago? Uh I came home in 2011. Came home from? I was living in Shanghai at the time. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 10:19

Yeah. Um like a whole nother podcast.

SPEAKER_02 10:22

Yeah. Well, I I'll I'll I'll do the right in the middle. I'll do the right in the middle part. Um, so my background is as a lawyer. I was uh I'm I guess legally licensed in the state of New York. That's where I went to law school. Uh I was there for a heartbeat. Um, I fell out of love with the legal profession quite quickly. Uh, and an opportunity presented itself to work with um a company called JPI down in Dallas, Texas. Uh my girlfriend at the time, wife now, is living in Vancouver. We decided to give it a shot and head down to Dallas. I worked there uh in the multifamily acquisitions and development game for a little bit. 2008 happens, world explodes. Um, the company that I was with, we had a staff of about 1,500 in when I joined, slightly less than 40 when I left. Um, yeah, so it was a precipitous, precipitous fall. We were uh sort of a poster boy for what was going wrong there down there in the States. Um, I was ready at that time in 2009-ish, uh, right at the end of tail end of 2008 to move back to Vancouver. Um, Michelle was not. Uh, she wanted to experience some other stuff, do something different. Uh, my brother was living in Hong Kong at the time, had a good friend in Singapore and a really good friend in Shanghai. And so I said, well, you know, let's go and have a look at Asia and hang out for a little while. And so we did sort of a little backpack around the entire region and hung out for about four or five months and had the time of our lives. And Michelle fell in love with Shanghai. And uh an opportunity presented itself there through a gentleman named Chris Cuff, who was introduced by Kelly Heed. Kelly's one of the Macaulay Nichols uh college guys from ages and ages ago here. Um and so I was offered a job there, and uh Michelle was offered a job there, so we went and hung out in Shanghai. And it was an amazing experience, but not something that I ever felt would be super long term or a place where we'd uh you know raise a family kind of thing. Um, we came home for the Olympics uh to enjoy those two weeks, and over those two weeks, um it became clear to me that Dick's transition out of the business accession plan wasn't going as he would have liked. And so over a lunch, it was very just sort of spontaneous. I put, you know, sort of raised my hand really and said, Well, why don't I buy the company from you? Um, he was surprised. He'd spent Matt's and my entire uh childhood coaching us not to be a part of the construction industry. Um, Matt went into finance, I went into law, he and my mom were happy, and then all of a sudden here I am taking a direction to come back to the business. But I think that he was relieved to know that there would be something for the company to look forward to. And so that initial conversation took about a year to actually come together. Uh, and then I moved home in February of 2011. And so that brings us back to the history of Kindred. And at that point, I had a conversation with my dad. I was like, where do your clients come from? Who is it that you're doing, who is it that you're doing work with? How is it that you ensure that there's steady growth and all of those things? Probably questions that I should have asked for the preceding year before agreeing to come back to Kindred. But um, his answer was really nothing. Um, he was their friends, their contacts. I've got a black book, I keep my finger on the pulse and we do enough work. And when we don't, we juggle things around to make sure everyone's happy and fed and we keep the company humming. And uh well, that's all well and good to have a company that stays in the space that Kindred was. I wanted a little bit more, and I also wanted something that perhaps wasn't gonna make me work every single day to go and drum up business. And so you need repeat work. And with the business that Kindred was doing at the time, if you do one really amazing high-end house, like hopefully though the people that build that house will spend the rest of their lives in that house. You're not gonna build a second one for them. Um, if you do a really amazing space for, you know, an end user, hopefully that space is gonna be there for the next 15, 20 years. These aren't people that are doing repetitive work. Uh, the only repetitive clients he had were consultants. And so I wanted to be an end user-driven. How can we focus on somebody that if we do a good job for them, they'll keep calling us? And the opportunity at the time seemed to be in really small-scale uh residential mixed-use developments. And that's where the less the least barriers to entry were. And so that's where we focused. And um, I took the AFBC website and I downloaded every single name of every single architect and I went through all their websites, I got all their contact information, I saw what they did, is it something that we could service? And I did the same thing for every developer just through Google searches and the like. And I spent about two years of just banging on doors and meeting people and talking and seeing what we could do to convince somebody to take a risk on Kindred and show them that we were capable of taking a step up. And uh that's sort of where that it spawned that we focused on this growth mode of uh getting into a couple different sectors that permitted steady growth, repeat clients, and it's been relatively uh not really a hockey stick since then. There's curves and bumps along the way, but that was the point in 2011 that really changed things. And then 2013 is when we started to gain a bit of momentum, and then obviously a a rising tide, you know, raises all boats and the market exploded. And so we were fortunate enough to be catching that as well. And uh off to the races, we found a couple of clients that trusted us and allowed us to do some work for them, and then we became on people's radars and uh the rest of sort of history over the last four or five years, and it's just been uh you know, steady as she goes.

SPEAKER_06 15:45

So, did you when you said you you from the business development point of view, you you download you downloaded those lists and you contacted these people like we were we talking like cold call hustling? Yeah. Wow, okay, so that's pretty cool. So the fact that you're a lawyer and you're you know uh you know, salespeople typically don't have to do that. You know, you know, it's kind of uh that's not a sales kind of thing, um, typically being a lawyer. Yeah, you're just kind of reacting and and you know, doing the work you got to do. Right. So what was that as you're as you're going, okay, here's contact number one. Well I call them.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

What's this gonna be like? I was conditioned for it over my time in Shanghai, uh working in the investment and then the leasing department for colliers out of that office. Uh, that's how I introduced myself to the market. And that was that was a much more abrupt and challenging introduction than at Kindred. At least at Kindred I had a name. Um, at least I could speak to a history in the city. Right. Uh, and so there was an entry point. Um, hey, you've met my dad at this point, you've worked with Kindred through this. Here's a project that we did however many years ago. Here's something that you got back. Some connection. Um, and the time in Shanghai made me very comfortable with having the phone hung up. Um, it made me very comfortable with being told no. And uh it it permitted me um complete uh complete ability to know that it's gonna be all right if you get told no 99 out of 100, all you need is that one. Um and it's I I guess it was a good lesson for us uh in the growth that we're gonna take because I'm still being told no because we still want to grow.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

And so I'm still banging on doors of that next level of company um to permit us an opportunity to continue to, you know, spread our wings and become better and challenge ourselves and meet that next group of group people that we want to work with. And uh, if I wasn't comfortable with being told no, then we'd probably be stuck where we're at forever. Did you speak Mandarin when you were there? I didn't, E D N D N. So very, very little bit. Uh I my biggest regret about my time in Shanghai is that I was lazy about that. Um, I wish that I'd been more proactive and diligent about it. Uh so I hired a tutor to come and uh uh give me lessons at home three days a week, and two out of those three, I'd show up, I'd be bagged from a really long day, and I'd pay, I'd pay her and say, you can just leave. And uh it's it's a massive regret. It would have been more beneficial here than it would have been there. Sure. Um you're not it's not expected that you're gonna speak Mandarin when you're living there. Um obviously it's appreciated and it's hugely beneficial, but I think here it like it would make people's heads explode. Um, Matt, my brother, can speak Mandarin fairly well. And uh, you know, is a six foot two redhead when he walks into a room and speaks Mandarin, that that surprises some people.

SPEAKER_03 18:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:36

Uh and we obviously operate in a market that that's a huge part of our clientele. Uh that's a huge part of uh all sides of our business of people that are spending money in real estate here in Vancouver, and it's an amazingly beneficial thing to have. Um, and I wish that I'd focused on that a little bit more.

SPEAKER_06 18:51

Well, when you see your the the projects that uh the um I've seen the the brand in like back in 2011, 2012, 13, 14, I saw wicked houses and really high-end retail brands. And so maybe just some of those brands uh are I mean they're kind of interesting, like because when you have uh like we we got a client that does um uh you you work with them. We don't have to mention the name, but they they do all the polished concrete for like Starbucks and Lululemon and all that.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 19:26

And that's using the names of all of these brands and pulling the equity onto themselves, saying we do work for all these companies. Right. And you know, it's recognition that that works. And and the same thing with you guys. I mean, there's a lot of high-end brands you guys have done work for, and also a lot of high-end homes and all that kind of stuff. And I what uh the other thing I've noticed is that uh you seem to have your sign on on the great roads, like the great arteries throughout Vancouver, all the way to you know, these signs always like at the foot of a bridge somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

Yeah, that's that's actually not um planned, obviously. But no, it is planned it's not by it's not by mistake. We actually look for um over the last several years, it's been a focus. I don't think that it is any longer. Um that shouldn't be a thought, it should be totally known, but I'll I'll just leave it at that. And what what we look to do is that as we are establishing our brand, as we wanted people to see our signs so that we did become a recognizable um option in that marketplace, uh, we knew that we needed to be seen. The best branding for a construction company is a sign.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

Um, it's not anything that you're gonna do online, it's not anything that you're gonna do by uh, you know, going to a trade show or whatever the case may be. It's somebody driving down Cambi Street and going, Holy smokes, there's a crane with a kindred sign on it. And um we we made that a concerted effort. And so that's to the project on Sixth and Cambi that we looked at. We we did that um as a branding and marketing exercise. That nobody got rich on that one. Super cool building, though. Awesome building, amazing building. Um and that was sort of that first one where I I saw the opportunity coming off that bridge. Uh, it was a chance to sort of get our uh get our name out there and we we leapt at it, and that hasn't changed since. Um the direction with where we focus on which projects we want to become our flagships has changed a little bit, it's shifted. Um, but it's still very much a focus for us to be visible for that next level of groups.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Just um that's exciting to unpack. And I it worked obviously because you know I was a prospective customer consultant, etc. And I and it worked on me in your own the podcast for that reason. So that's that's awesome. Um closing out your whole story of of Kindred, where are you guys today? Um, just giving a quick pulse on size of team, um, amount of projects, um, just closing the loop, and then and I think unpacking like your path to growth. And I think it's very interesting that you mentioned the concept of taking on projects that support your brand, give your team that credibility, give Experience to give you that platform to continue to grow.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

Sure. Um, so right now we're hovering at about 100 staff. Uh we have 14 projects actively under construction and uh same amount of projects that are in uh one form or another of pre-construction. So be it just started or just getting going in pre-construction and the project's two years out, or we're breaking ground in a month. Um and we tend to like to sit at that, having an equal number in pre-construction versus construction. It's something that permits us comfort knowing that people are gonna have a place to go when their sites are done. Um we uh we we're sitting at a revenue level that is sustainable. It's not something that we've got this big beast that needs to be fed. Um so we're not taking on work just to keep everybody happy and healthy. And um, we're doing things that are allowing us to continue to focus on the growth of the business. And that growth of the business is a very um, it's an interesting spot that we're in right now. We've um established, I would suggest, a bit of a brand and some name recognition for those projects that we're currently doing. And so when people call us, something that would have made me leap out of my seat uh four years ago no longer does. But I'm no less excited about the prospect of having it because we're delivering them better. And so it's making our brand recognition stronger and knowing that the success of the project is much more likely than it would have been if you'd hired us seven years ago. Um and so what we are looking to do now is leverage that success, be on top of those, continue to service that boutique, mixed-use, multifamily market, that commercial group, and utilize that to either grow with those groups or find those ones that are just a slight step above those to allow our staff to continue to grow. You don't keep A players if you don't keep them engaged and growing and challenged. And so if we continue to do the same projects forever, we'll lose our best people. Um, and so that's been where we're sorting sort of going. Uh, it's taking that next step up. So it's taking a $40 million project and making it 70. It's taking a seven-story project and making it 17. Um, it's taking 110 units and making it 350. And so that's the growth. Uh, there is no, we need to do this by then, and if we don't, we're failing. It's organic, it's client-driven. Uh, and when the opportunity presents itself, we need to be ready to capitalize.

SPEAKER_05 24:17

No, that's good. And we talked a little bit before we started recording um about the geographic reach of Kindred. Uh, maybe talk a little bit about historically where you've done projects and now, I mean, coming into this new uh strategy, does it change um and what does it look like now?

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Sure. So um we operate throughout the Sea to Sky Corridor, and then I would suggest down to the border. Um we go out into the valley at times, but we don't stretch too far east. Uh, there's people that focus exclusively in that area, and that seems to be a tough uh neighborhood to um really gain a ton of traction if you're not based there, uh not too dissimilar from Vancouver Island. Uh but outside of that specific area, we we follow clients. We don't chase but follow. Uh if we're asked to do work um for a group that we enjoy working with and it's a project that we can add value to, then we will. And so that's taken us into an owner's wearing an owner's rep hat for a project in Arizona, doing stuff on the island, doing stuff up in Tumblr Ridge in Fort and St. John, and then off into Calgary. Um, but for the time being, we're we're focusing on our backyard. Um, first project that we ever did was in Whistler K Heights in Whistler. Uh we'll always be active throughout the corridor. That's a market that we know well. And I think um it's a very unique market. And so if you can bring value there, then you're in a very special place. Um, and then obviously we've been based in Kitts and around Gravel Island since the inception of the company. And so we're we're a Vancouver group. We're Vancouver focused and uh continues to be um the the vast majority of the work that we're doing.

SPEAKER_05 25:49

And in terms of what you were sharing before about taking like a multifamily project from 100 units to 300 in that strategy, there's no immediate plans to go and start spreading wings elsewhere when it's there's a lot here that you can keep growing and and pushing with your team.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Yeah, so we're uh we're redlining right now. Um, I think everybody is. I think that uh um we've we've been pretty diligent in making sure the capacity is kept for those that we have under contract. Um we don't want to be oversubscribed and all of a sudden fall flat in our face. And if that's happening here, um I certainly don't have time. Um, Matt doesn't, Jan doesn't, uh Paul Care doesn't, Paul Thompson doesn't to take that focus away and go and look at a market that we'd have to completely uh come in fresh to. And so for us, the focus remains on where we're at, um, continue to deliver those that we can. And if somebody phenomenal walks through our door uh that provides us with that um ability to stretch our capacity, grow a little bit, then we'll go there. Um, I think that um HR is probably the least favorite part of my job. Um luckily we have a uh phenomenal HR um professional in Shelby Claire who that handles most of it. And um it's difficult to get good people. And at a at a hundred people, um that's a lot of people to look after and make sure are happy and engaged. And anything beyond that, um, I think you start to shift a little bit. We can grow project size, project volume, uh project size, dollar volume, all of those things without growing people. But once we get into another market, you need more people. Once uh you take on more smaller projects, you need more people. And so the focus for us is to stay at the number of people that we're at, grow their skill sets, grow their capacity, and with that allow our projects to get bigger and stay where we're at.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Um, I was in your guys' office probably what, four or five, five weeks ago, and there's a buzz, there's a momentum, you can kind of feel it. When you walk into a place, and we've talked about this on the podcast, when you walk into a place that's they're winning projects, there's an energy, you can feel the momentum. Maybe kind of share a little bit about the momentum, and the second thing would be when we you and I spoke talking about family values and what that does as you guys drive forward. I think it's pretty rare in the Vancouver market to have that second generational leadership that's pushing for growth, that's pushing for that infrastructure. So, two words there that were that struck me when I walked in the office with momentum and kind of family values, maybe unpack that a bit.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Sure, I'll speak to the momentum side. I think that the mental the momentum piece is a long time coming. Um the momentum that's uh viewed by the market is something that we felt internally four years ago, um, three years ago. Those projects were under contract, we knew that they were going to come to fruition. So we were gearing up for it, but it's not visible until the hole's starting to be done or the site is active. Uh and so for us, that momentum has been internal for a very long time. It's exciting for everybody in-house when those projects hit. Uh, it's a lot of busy work, it's a lot of tedious, mundane stuff getting through the pre-construction piece. Uh, but everybody gets excited when you start to have your name recognized on the landscape. And I think that that's really taken hold in our office. Uh, that coupled with the fact that we have a bunch of really, really strong young people. Uh, the strength of Kindred is probably 35 years old and down. Um, we have some really good senior level people, uh, but what's going to make us take that next step are our project coordinators, our administrators, our foreman, our assistant supers, uh, and they're phenomenal. And they're the ones that are really there creating that buzz in our office. They're the ones that keep the older guys excited and engaged because it's really easy to become weathered in this business. It's a tough, it's a tough industry. I'm shocked that my dad lasted 40 years. I don't know how anyone does it. But um, it it takes those young guys that are excited, that are super stoked to come to work every single day. Uh, they're really, really enamored with what kindred's doing, who we've become, and they're creating this refreshed sense of energy and culture and this real big drive that's happening within our office. And so um that's that's where that momentum is being built. Um, and it's exciting to see to um to speak to the family piece. Uh I think that there's there's a way that we're received that is different for a private company or sir for sorry, for a non-family-based company, and that uh I hope that there's an inherent level of trust. Um, when even if our name's not on the door, uh Kindred is Reed. And so um that means a lot to me. It means a lot to Matt. I know that it means a lot to Dick. Uh, and so I I hope that that's bred in every conversation that we have with all of our staff, with um all of our potential clients, all our consultant partners, all of our trades. Uh, they know that they're just not talking to a brand, they're talking to a family, they're talking to people that care about them. We we look at everybody within kindred uh as somebody that we care deeply about. Um, Christmas parties for kinder growing up were at my parents' house. I was the uh coke. And so that that's something that's not going to change. That's that's who we are. And um I I hope that it's something that permeates through the market and they can see that it's a different level of trust, a different level of relationship that has just spawned from being a family company with those inherent values.

SPEAKER_06 31:08

So as you're handing out these beverages at the Christmas party.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Beverages, I just carried coats.

SPEAKER_06 31:13

Oh, I think you said coat. Oh, I think you said beverage Coca-Cola as well. And then we looked at each other like you're saying coats as a kid. You coats when coats.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

Coats. Yeah, sorry, I could see where that went sideways. No, no, I was the jacket guy. No, when did you get so much work done? Yeah, I was I was the jacket, I was the jacket guy.

SPEAKER_06 31:31

Yeah, fair enough.

SPEAKER_05 31:32

Cool, cool. Um, you you said 100 people, right? Of that, how many office? How many uh field?

SPEAKER_02 31:39

Uh I 35 in the office. Um, and the remain 35 to 40 in the office, the remainder on field. Yeah. Um, so our office is made up. We've got uh five people within our accounting department. Uh we've got a full-time HR. Uh one person was two uh until recently. Um we've got uh front of house with Kelly Taylor and then myself and Matt, really from an operational perspective. And the rest of people are construction based, whether they're office or site. Um and we encourage our PMs to be out on site. Some of them want to work full-time from the job site, and they're certainly permitted to do that. Uh, so the number fluctuates in the office, and we have hot desks for them to come in and hang out at when they want to spend some time there and get out of the noise. But uh our site-based staff is probably about two to one to our office-based staff.

SPEAKER_05 32:26

Right. That that's pretty cool. Yeah, I don't I don't want to go off on a tangent too much, but we're talking a lot about people and culture and everything like that. And I always find it interesting when you have um builders that you know self-perform or have their own people on site, how they really champion like the field to office relationships because I've been involved in the company. It's tough.

SPEAKER_02 32:47

Super tough.

SPEAKER_05 32:48

And so, and like what what have you done like intentionally to like keep culture strong and like connect field and office?

SPEAKER_02 32:54

Is there anything you'd like to speak to? I think it's it's good timing today. Um, after this, I'm going to pick up Matt and we're going to tour a bunch of our job sites. Uh, so um I try to do that every two months. Um, I'd love to do it more often. It's just time doesn't permit. What we do is we just try to keep in touch. I don't think anybody does it perfectly. There's always going to be that sense of people on a site or on an island. Uh effectively, they're running their own business. Um, they feel that their success is not necessarily tied to everything that's happening throughout the entire reach of the company. And to a certain extent, they're not really wrong. Like they need to have uh their head down and grinding and knowing what's happening there because if they're not focused 100% on that and they're worried about what's happening on another job site, they're gonna miss something. Um, and so I do, I think it does speak to a social aspect that as long as you're there, you're visible, you're having your, you know, your breakfasts and your lunches and your parties, and um you're bringing them into the office to have your safety culture meetings and you're going and having a social event afterwards. Uh, like we try very hard to champion that. We want there to be a personal relationship. Uh, we want them to look at us as friends, um, we want the right people in the right places, and um, we need them to be working collaboratively as a team. And if they don't see people outside of the framework of work, I think that that's gonna be challenging for us to do. And you know, we're trying, but it's tough. Uh, I don't think anybody's doing it uh perfectly. Um so we'll we'll continue to keep it going. And we've we've hired a very much or not recently hired, I guess, promoted, a very much boots on the ground, uh, tried and tested superintendent to be our general super. His name's Paul Curry. And so he helps a lot. He helps a lot with that. Um, he's not a suit and tie general superintendent. Uh he's still he's still got his muddy boots when he's in the office. Uh, he'd rather be on site, but we drag him kicking and screaming in to make sure that he's uh he's allowing that to happen.

SPEAKER_05 34:42

No, it's good that that person can be a great conduit between field and office, right? And strengthen that relationship. Last thing. Do you still do your Christmas parties at someone's house?

SPEAKER_02 34:52

We don't anymore. We just we're a little too big. A little too big. My my folks, my folks are in the same house. Uh it was funny, I was having texting back and forth with my mom last night. Uh, we were talking about their home. Uh they're in the same house now that they were in with that we moved to when I was five. Uh and so it's uh it's a nice house, but it's not a huge house. Um, so we're we've grown out of uh having and I certainly don't have a house big enough.

SPEAKER_06 35:18

So no, that's cool. So that um when you're talking about that general superintendent coming with the muddy boots, etc. Um the the tribalism between field and office, which we touched on a little bit, right? Um that person being the tribe leader, if you will, and then someone at the office, I guess it's you or Matt or whoever is it is the office tribal leader. Um it would be interesting to see um a company really embrace that. So obviously no, because there's inherent differences.

SPEAKER_00 35:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 35:54

There's environmental differences, there's uh differences in terms of what people have to endure on a daily basis. Um yeah, it's pretty so what do you what do you think about that in terms of your brand, in terms of the culture and all that kind of stuff?

SPEAKER_02 36:06

So something that Dick has always championed was a very flat project corporate structure, meaning that a super and a PM um were at the same space. And so uh one didn't necessarily um report to the other. I think that we still try to be um true to that. Uh there's some challenges and that the contractual side of things needs to be adhered to as we start getting into the other sides of projects, and the PM inherently has that responsibility. Uh, but we try to very much put them on a level footing. Um, and I think that that speaks volumes to them having to collaborate and work together and not feel like they're reporting to someone that they don't feel that they should report to. Um, so we've given them each um someone in a more executive position on the construction side. A fellow named Jan Grouton is our vice president of construction. He handles all of our commercial work, he's the tribal leader for the commercial side. Uh Sean Ruthvin is the same on the office side for the residential piece, single uh for the high-end single family residential piece. And then Paul is the guy over on our sites. Um, and so those three guys have to work very closely together. And if those three have a strong relationship, excuse me, then it permeates through their guys. Uh and their guys all know that they've got a champion in any one of those three to make sure that if there is any conflict, that they're able to elevate it and do it properly. Uh, and I think it holds everybody accountable. Um, if a PM's not doing his job, then the super will tell Paul, and Paul will tell Jan and Jan's gonna hold that PM accountable. Um, so it allows them to not necessarily be in each other's faces, but make sure that everybody's um on the up and up, and um so far so good. It's working out.

SPEAKER_06 37:40

Yeah, that that flat uh setup is pretty smart. Because sometimes well, um yeah, it it makes sense that when it works. Yeah, yeah, when it exactly when it works. But I think if there's a if there's an understanding that um one is not more important than the other.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Yeah, uh so I I don't want to speak ill of uh PMs at all. They're um contractually the most important people in our business. Without a good PM, uh we'd be out of business very quickly. Uh but when a project starts, the most important person is a superintendent. Absolutely. Uh like without without really strong leadership on site, uh a budget is just something on paper uh that can get shot, a superintendent uh schedule can get totally lost. And so a PM can do everything perfectly. And if he hands it off to somebody who's completely out of their element on site, then it's ruined. Uh conversely, I've I am of the belief that a really amazing superintendent can hold up a PM that's weak. Um, and so uh without somebody on site that's amazing, the projects are gonna go sideways. Uh and so a PM understanding that, I hope, comes into that relationship knowing that that person is critical to their success and they're on a level playing field. Uh, if you have a junior, and we're in a market now where PMs are young. Um they don't people don't necessarily want to be super intense, they don't want to work when it's cold and wet. And so we've got these young supers and these weathered, good, strong, sorry, these young PMs and these weathered, good, strong supers, they better not think that super is reporting directly to them. Um, they better listen to them, they better understand that they've got advice, experience. Uh, construction is, in my opinion, still one of the only industries that you can walk into rightly or wrongly and say, this is how we've been doing it for 40 years, and not get laughed out of the room. And so if you've got a 55, 60, 7-year-old superintendent that's telling a 30-year-old PM, you know, this is what I've done on the last eight projects, the guy should listen. And they should be on the same team and at the same level. There's so much good stuff.

SPEAKER_05 39:42

Oh man, I could get it. I I couldn't agree with you more on a lot of this. Um, you know, we do come with construction background. I was in project management for 10 years and and did come from site as well before that. So I couldn't agree with you more about the the the role and the importance of a great superintendent. But that relationship that you guys are uh creating and that and that flat, if you would call it or whatever, and whether it works or doesn't, or if it's you know working more so than it is not, uh, is very cool. Um, and I think if you can nail that, you can build a lot of really great pro uh project dynamics.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Yeah, and I think we were talking offline before this too, and it's and and you know this as well, but you guys in that really nice sweet spot, hundred staff, that young core, but also that breadth of experience of the 40 plus years in the family history. And I think when we talk to PMs and supers on the podcast, offline in our respective businesses, people still want to build. Like when people enter the construction industry, they want to put their name on a project, they want to see it go up, they want to engage with the client. And so that flat structure allows that young talent that you said is the future of kindred to go build. Right. That's that energy and that's that buzz. And it's it's really exciting to hear that. And I think um you can see that on your projects too.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Yeah, I I think that um we've we've got a a history that speaks to doing unique, cool, interesting projects, even when they were small and uh very bespoke. Um, they were all always awesome. Uh that was something that Dick was unbelievably focused on. That's what our lineage speaks to. And we haven't taken our eye off of that ball. Uh, we still want to do awesome stuff. Um, we don't want to be that cookie cutter resi guy. We want to do a really nice, beautiful resi building. Um, and uh I'm still attracted to the shiny bobble, rightly or wrongly. You know, when I walk into a uh meeting and the client's doing something amazing, I'm gonna be a lot more driven and probably a little too willing to ch to budge on my numbers um for those projects. Uh what we are seeing about our ability to make sure that those young guys are provided that opportunity to step up. Um, we've been very fortunate in having uh, again, I'll reference him again, Jan Grouton come in and he's he's that guy that's provided that uh that depth of experience for our younger PMs because they are younger, um, to be able to have that sounding board, that level of expertise and experience so that they can go and spread their wings and do some really cool stuff. And then Matt and I aren't totally terrified that they're making mistakes because we've got Jon there. Um, and so that allows us to take those steps to grow those guys internally, but still be comfortable with the risk that we're absorbing as a business.

SPEAKER_05 42:15

Yeah, this is this is great. Uh there's a lot of themes of like um you're empowering your people and giving them like the authority to kind of like do things and make things move. Do you guys have any like formal mentorship stuff within the company or does it just happen organically?

SPEAKER_02 42:28

So well, we've got, yeah, like so. I I guess it's an informal mentorship program and that we uh we've got quarterly check-ins with everybody to make sure that their direct supervisor is in touch, speaking, engaged with those people and they're aware of them in every facet of their life. Uh it's not just how are things going on this project and have you hit this schedule. It's where are those hurdles? How are you seeing that happen? Are you able to work longer hours today so that you can take that long weekend off because it's your best buddy's wedding, whatever. Um, and so there is some active engagement to be personal and it's not just a business mentorship, but it's growing these people as adults. Uh they're they're entering an industry that is challenging and demanding. And uh if they don't have that shoulder to lean on, not just when the project gets difficult, but uh when also things get challenging with you know things that happen in life, and uh we look to have that framework in place. And so that that's company wide. Um Dick is the number one mentor in the business. Uh he's got an open door for everybody. Um, so you'll see our youngest PCs walk in there and chat and uh all the way up to Matt and myself. And uh I think that that then is communicated through the rest of the business from an informal perspective that everybody's available, everybody's there to talk to. And um we we empower people to take it upon themselves to go and seek out advice from everybody within the business. And uh uh hopefully it's it's something that they grasp onto and really get uh good experience with. And if they don't take that opportunity, they're really missing out. And truthfully, like they're probably not fitting it. And so if If they're in there and they're quiet and they're reserved and they're not uh getting those touch points and talking to people and uh seeking out alternate sources of uh experiences, um, they're not really absorbing everything that kindred is, and uh it's probably not the perfect fit.

SPEAKER_05 44:16

No, I was just gonna say it's pretty cool how when you're intentional about culture, yeah, how it just it's its own machine and it and it uh it's happening whether you plan it or not. Yeah, yeah, it happens whether you plan it or not, but when you are intentional about like strong culture and stuff like that, it shapes people through through just by existing within it.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

Yeah, um, so Matt Matt's very much a culture-driven guy. Uh I I think that culture is there's there's some key points that you want to make sure are never lost, but I think it is a a somewhat tenuous concept in that it shifts and it changes. And so you can have your roots, um, but with a company that when I joined from 30 to when I joined there was less than 30 of us, now there's a hundred, things are gonna change. Yeah. Um, and so you need to be comfortable in knowing that as long as you don't lose sight of who you are and who you were. Um, but our culture is driven by everybody that's in there, and so if they're happy, engaged, strong, technically intuitive, um then that's gonna be our culture. Uh and so it it starts from a hiring perspective as we've grown uh by leaps and bounds.

SPEAKER_06 45:22

But um, you know, there's those tenants that you want to keep in touch with, but then I think culture shifts as far as who your workforce is and did your so with your uh your father being the sort of key mentor, so the legacy of the business was there a narrative around the name of the company being Kindred, like Kindred spirit, uh enthusiasm, curiosity, all those things? Well, how did this come about?

SPEAKER_02 45:48

I no, I wish there was a good story. There's not. Um so great name. I appreciate that. Uh so Kindred, uh Kindred with uh one of the uh meanings being brotherly. Um Kindred initially had uh some family components to it for on my dad's side. Uh there was some involvement by one of his brothers and one of his dad, uh sorry, and his dad. Uh, but that was relatively short-lived. And so um it really fell off and it was just Dick, and the name stuck, and the logo was good, and uh off we went. Um and and so here we are. No, there's no real amazing background to it.

SPEAKER_06 46:25

Interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Because it's a good name. I appreciate that. Thanks.

SPEAKER_06 46:29

Thanks out too. Yeah, because uh it has so it doesn't have any, well, I don't think it does anyway, it doesn't have any negative connotations when people see there's nothing confusing. People can bring their own ideas from that. It's not an acronym. It's not definitely not an acronym. Yeah, it's not yeah, it's kind of interesting. That's cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:45

Um, I think you jumped into this at the beginning, but maybe we have a quick snapshot of the the split in roles between you and Matt and what that looks like and and how that's a good stability for growth. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 46:56

Um so for the first uh, I guess, four years that I was at Kindred, I was an all hands-on deck doing everything kind of guy, and I realized that that wasn't sustainable. I didn't really have any intent of Matt coming back. It would have been amazing if he did. Um and he was becoming a little disenchanted with the banking industry. Uh his background is with JP Morgan on the asset management side. He was in Hong Kong for 11 years, um, 10 or 11 years. And he's a numbers, operationally driven, procedures driven guy. Um, I must shake hands, kiss babies, go and uh get some work kind of guy. And so it just naturally fit. Um, and we were very fortunate with that. Um, I have zero interest uh to be sitting there crunching numbers and making sure that our risk profile is okay and looking at matrix and stuff like that. I go out and I chase work, I try to develop business, I try to keep our clients happy, I try to keep uh our strategy aligned with those that we're working with. Um, I try to have a big picture perspective, which Matt shares. Um, but then after I've gone and done the legwork, we circle up. Uh, we have a couple other people internally um that we have those discussions with and we make sure that um we're all aligned. Uh so yeah, I'm I'm the outward facing guy. I'm the front of the office, I'm the first face you see. Uh Matt's back of the office and making sure that I don't make any bad decisions. Awesome. Yeah, it's that's a really exciting message.

SPEAKER_06 48:21

That's a crazy skill set, though, to have behind the scenes, like you. Yeah, yeah, I'm just the front guy, ex-lawyer. Um and then you have ex JP Morgan between the numbers. I mean, that's a pretty unique skill set behind a construction company.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

Yeah, I I so it's a it's a benefit and uh potentially also at times a drawback. Um, so um Matt is unbelievably pragmatic. Like he's not gonna take risks in a business that is driven by risk. Uh, like that's what construction is. If you're not comfortable with risk, it's gonna be really difficult to take work on unless you do small-scale CM work, cost plus 10 on a two point mil on a two million dollar uh renovation and off you go. Um so it's good to have that background from Matt's side, but it keeps me in check. And conversely, I think that for the two of us to not have a construction pedigree is at times a hurdle that we have to overcome. Um, typically, when a client walks in to talk to the head of a construction company, that person has grown through the ranks of a construction company. Matt and I grew up as laborers and then we left. Um, and so you don't want me to walk you through your drawings and tell you where the mistakes are. You don't want me to critique a structural design. Um, some of our competitors, the president, can do that. Um, so what we've had to be very mindful of doing is surrounding ourselves by amazing people that tick those boxes. Uh, and I think we found that. Um, so we've buoyed Matt's in my experience by having the right people to support us. Uh, and that's again, it's led by Jan. Um, and then it's got Sean Ruthfin on the Resi side, and then Paul Thompson that leads our estimating Shelby in our HR side, and Paul Curry on our sites. And that allows me and Matt to focus on what we're good at, grow the business, make sure that we're not taking missteps uh and allow the builders to be builders.

SPEAKER_06 50:08

Well, that's like a good basketball team or a good hockey team or whatever. I mean, it's it's the group that can do everything, and everyone's got their own special trick.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Yeah, and we're entering your time and construction, which we talk about in almost every one of our episodes. Building's getting more complicated, projects getting more intense. It's a people business. And so bringing that sophistication into construction today, I think is is a really good time to time that, but also disagree. To staff your team with, hey, we're business people first. You can understand your clients' challenges, you can look at the market. So yeah, I think the the teams that are winning and the groups that are winning, like you guys with the momentum, it's due to that diversified team. You know, you're looking at construction business as a business.

SPEAKER_02 50:47

Yeah, I I agree. I think that we've approached it very much as trying to be uh professional, um, much like a law firm would be or a bank would be, um, but doing something that is exceedingly complex that's based on so many people doing a good job. Like that's one of the things that's so unique about construction is that when we're done a building, like at a minimum, 2,000 hands have touched it.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:10

And that's an amazing thing. Um, so no other industry that I'd worked in previously, nor Matt's, uh, is that uh collaborative. Um, and so uh we've we've tried to take the approach that as long as everybody's aligned and you've got the right people in the right places, and Matt and I are hopefully in those, uh, then that allows some projects to come together successfully and the business to grow.

SPEAKER_01 51:31

That's awesome. When you guys go on site today, it sounds like your eyes kind of sparkle a little bit when you're like, I gotta go on site. What are you guys looking for? What is that is is there a plan? Is it just to hit you know boots on the ground?

SPEAKER_02 51:42

Uh so there is at times a plan, and there is at times it's just I'm driving past a site and I'm close enough that I can stop in and spend 15 minutes. Um, so uh a huge part of our corporate corporate culture, excuse me, is safety. Um, and so we'll do spot space safety inspections. And so um Matter I will show up out of the blue. Um, any of our senior executives that aren't directly involved with the project will show up out of the blue. And we'll grab the CSO and the superintendent and we'll do a safety walk. And so I imagine that's what will happen today. And um uh, you know, we we make sure that that's uh first and foremost in all of our superintendents' minds. And so that's probably something that will happen with most of the projects that we hit today. Uh it's really just a matter of time. I actually don't even know what project we'll we'll hit first, but um, we tend to check in with the PMs and the supers, make sure that we're not interrupting a concrete pour or something like that. Like nobody wants me to show up when they're just slammed. Um, so uh as long as it's a normal day, job sites humming, Matt and I will pop in, um, and uh we'll we'll take a safety walk and then we'll sit down with the super and see how he's doing, bring some donuts and some coffee for the boys and um make sure everybody's happy and off we go to the next one.

SPEAKER_01 52:50

That's awesome. I love that. I think as you come to see a bigger and bigger, not to put a stereotype out there, but it's difficult to find that time. Totally. And it's you know, it's important to kind of get the pulse on on the projects too. Absolutely. Yeah. Um looking at our time and a couple more questions we had here would be what are you most proud of? Um, and I think somebody's came up in our conversation, but what are you most proud of for the Kindred team? Uh maybe it's this week, maybe it's something you've been thinking about. Um what are your thoughts there? You guys have done a lot of growth and I think it's that we get better every year.

SPEAKER_02 53:25

Uh for a very long time. Um and for a very long time. The unfortunate thing about construction in general, I guess, is that you spend more time focusing on problems than successes. Uh and we, as we were growing, I think that as with any company that's growing, you have more problems than you would like. And those problems are getting less and less and smaller and smaller every single year. And so I'm proud of our team that we're just getting better every single day. Um internally, we're stronger, we're recruiting better people, people are more interested in coming to work for us. Um and so it's just that consistent growth, that consistent uh um expertise, uh strengthening um that I'm most proud of to see us get better every single day on every single project, um, get those accolades, get those pats on the back when projects are done. That's the thing that I'm most proud of.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

You never, it's such a fast-paced business, it's tough to like, I think in all business, to look back and celebrate wins.

SPEAKER_02 54:20

Yeah, I I have this conversation with our group often. Um it's far too rare that wins are celebrated in this industry, um, be it from uh winning a project at a at a bid level or a proposal level all the way to hitting key milestones to delivering a project. Um, not often enough do you slow down and you go, holy smokes, like look what we just did. How amazing is that we actually achieved our goals. Um, because the next day is a new battle. Uh, you need to either go and win a new project or you need to hit a new milestone or you need to hand over keys for that next unit. Um, and so there's there's something that you always have to focus on. And unfortunately, it doesn't permit that time to catch your breath, look back, and you know, pat everybody on the back and and know that you've done something amazing. Um, and so I I hope that we make that a focus within our company. But again, it's tough.

SPEAKER_05 55:09

Yeah, it is it's so quick. What would you say, just as a snapshot, you're most excited about the next 12 to 24 months? And then what would you say to anyone who you'd be, you know, prospective customer or employee that you might want to attract to your company?

SPEAKER_02 55:24

Sure. So over the next 12 to 24 months, I'm really excited about delivering these projects that we've currently got well. Um, like we could we could turn off the tap, not acquire any more work, and have an awesome uh pile of projects that are coming through over the next 24 to 36 months. And so that excites me. We're gonna be delivering projects that people wouldn't have expected us to deliver three years ago. Um, and so that speaks to the ones that are off the Canby corridor. We've got a couple in the hopper that are gonna start downtown. Um, and that I think will sort of launch us into a new uh stratosphere and um put us on a level that people hadn't anticipated uh Kindred to be at. And so I think that that's what I would talk to people that were thinking about working with Kindred is that the people that are thinking about working with Kindred, we might be sort of on the periphery of who they're thinking about. Um we need our message to be loud. Uh, we need them to know who we are and what we're doing because I think that that's what they need to see. Uh, we're not the builder that we were 15 years ago that their uncle, the architect, worked with on uh TI. Um, we still do those. We're happy to. Um, but like here's who we are, here's what we're doing, here's how we're doing it. Um, I think that that's what I'd want to communicate to people that who we're working with. Um, and I'd want them to know that the people that we are working with, or the people that are inside kindred are strong. Um, the thing that we look for most right now in staff, um, the culture piece, in my opinion, is inherent immediately. Like you're either a good person or you're not. Um, not everybody needs to love soccer, not everybody needs to do certain things. But if you're a good guy or a good girl, like you can you can be you can be well received and absorb a culture that is strong. Um, and so for us, it's technical expertise. And the people that we have in-house right now are technically good. Like they're just good at what they do. Um, and that's something I'd want to communicate to the people that are thinking about working with Kindred. Um, for those that are thinking about coming to work with Kindred, um, I would suggest have a look at what we're up to. Um, what we've struggled with in the past is having people seeing what we're about to do, not what we're doing. And so those are the people that we want to hire. Uh, we want people that are going, oh man, I want to be a part of that. Uh, I want to be a part of what they're doing in three years, five years, 10 years, because that's the the runway that we've got here. Um, we're not looking to hire somebody for today. We're looking to hire somebody for what we're about to do. Uh and we we need people that want that. We don't want somebody that's gonna come in and be a one project mercenary. We want somebody that's gonna be there for a long time. Uh, we've got people that have been with us since the doors opened 40 years ago. Well, so we don't we don't we don't want that to change. Um, but we want people to be really excited about what we're up to and to come with a skill set that permits us to benefit just as much as they do.

SPEAKER_05 58:12

No, that paints a a really um clear picture, clear enough anyway, to get excited about um what's upcoming for you guys. And uh uh I'm I'm excited. That's cool. You know, we talked about seeing your signs um as we drive around town, and um, I think we all look forward to seeing more of those, maybe even you know, whether it's higher in the sky or it's you know, more city blocks or whatever it is, right?

SPEAKER_01 58:34

So we're excited about it too. That's cool. Even hearing you talk too, it's it's funny. People from the outside looking in see the momentum you have, and you're like, wow, you know, overnight success. But like what you mentioned, like these are jobs you've estimated, done pre-con for like years in advance, you've staffed up for, you've and I think that building that infrastructure and in that team momentum takes a lot of work and it's a big investment in the future. And there's so many companies that are just, you know, like you said, one projects and they and they move up and down. But taking that investment in that time is it's a big decision, and it's exciting to see a Vancouver company, it's family-based kind of yeah, we're that push.

SPEAKER_02 59:09

We're excited for it. I think that that's one of the lessons that I've learned over the last nine years is that there is no shortcut. Uh it just takes time. Um, I tried to do everything really quickly, and uh, I can't remember who it was, but uh, you know, you're told, um, I was told that I'm learning the temperature of the stove by touching it rather than asking. And um you it like you're not taking the taking a step back in order to take two steps forwards, and I think that's what we've done over the last five or six years, and um, it's starting to pay dividends. Uh, we're now reaping what we've sold for years and years, and it's excited to see it starting to really trickle.

SPEAKER_05 59:44

That's awesome. Yeah. Should we jump into this rapid fire round? Yeah. Anything else anyone wants to say or anything? And no? This is the exciting part. You know, we're we're all about, uh as you know, the the tagline of our podcast, leadership and construction with some perspective from the job site. It's always fun because we can get right down to the nitty-gritty uh stuff right here. So, Brian, generic question. What inspires you?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:09

Um, so I'm gonna like probably like just the typical canned answer. I think the people that I work with inspire me. Um, but uh of of late, my kids have started to inspire me just because they motivate me to work a little bit harder.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:22

Totally. I love that. Are you a reader? I am a reader. What is the on that note then, what is the best book you read in in 2019, or perhaps Steven's kicking off 2020 with?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:32

So um I just finished a book called Evicted by Matthew Desmond. I wrote these down just so I didn't screw this up. This is the one note that I made. Um, so Evicted is about uh the housing crisis that that is faced in the United States, uh, and it's an amazing book. Um, two books that I'm reading right now. I'm reading Rav Mavericks by Peter Newman, so about uh Canadian magnets, and uh, I'm reading Ripple Effect by Dr. Greg Wells. Um and so yeah, two very different books. Uh I tr I tend to read um nonfiction of almost every type. I'm not a big business book reader, reader guy, um, but something that allows me to actually not think about business for the time being and uh grow personally and challenge my mind a little bit more, but uh something that's at least not completely aligned with everything that I do all day, every day.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:22

Oh, totally. And I think you you learn all those concepts, you know, school or hard knocks, or like getting your hands dirty or just doing getting it done and growing it, right? So I totally get that. Um Okay, here's a fun one. What is something that you believe that other people would think is insane?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:37

Right. So I've been thinking about this for the last how many minutes have we been talking about making sure going in the background the whole um so I believe that construction is far more complex of an industry than law. Oh interesting.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:51

So I'm gonna I'm gonna make sure I point that out to I got a couple lower buddies. Are we allowed to unpack that?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:56

Yeah, yeah. Um I think that while law is nuanced and there's gray areas, um there's only two sides, uh, typically. Um construction, there's dozens. Um, construction, there's thousands of people. It's not two parties uh, you know, getting away from um you know massive civil suits that have tons and tons and tons of claimants. Um everything about construction is technical. Uh everything about it is relying on the success of someone else. Everything about it is making sure that everybody's completely aligned and on the same page, even if you're at counterpoints and not on the same side, you need to be working together. Uh and law is not like that. Um, law is it's your side, let's get super um detailed and understand our position, and then let's go and argue against the other guy. Totally. Um, whereas there is no other guy in construction, the framework is everybody. And if you're not working together, then it's a problem, and that makes it exceedingly complex. Um, and the even more crazy part about it being exceeding complex is that everybody you work there, work for thinks it's so easy. And so um it makes it even more of a challenge. Um, so perhaps that's something that I think is uh uh that I believe that other people would think is insane.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:10

No, that's great. There's some really good nuggets in there. I think we'll extract first some some key notes on that theme. Then what is the most important part of your background as a lawyer that would contribute to your success right now at Kindred and Ford?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:23

Um I don't know. I think it's maybe perspective. Uh you know, Rome wasn't built in the day. There's gonna be problems, there's gonna be issues. Um not all projects are gonna go great, not all projects will go great. Um, you're not gonna finish everything and be invited to people's barbecues. Um I think that uh the understanding that things are gonna be all right, and as long as you put in the work and you remain true to who you are, that things will be good. Um, I think that that's something that law taught me. And then I guess as far as being on the real estate side, it's uh um, you know, the ability to deal with losses and um not be successful over and over and over again and not always hit the home runs and having that that ability to, you know, just deal with it and move on. Like I was told no about a project last night, like 11 30. And I I think I think I thought about it for about six minutes. Um, you know, and I'm sitting there and I'm like, I'm like, I didn't even want that project. What am I doing? You know, and so I think that uh like why am I why am I fretting over this? And so it's that experience from picking up the phone and doing cool calls in Shanghai, the experiences working in Law to know that uh things are gonna be difficult and days will be challenging. Those are some back, some pieces of my background that have benefited to the business.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:40

Love it. That's a good response. I think, James, you're trying to get a photo, perhaps. Uh or that's all good. Yeah, we got that. You got that? Live, live. There you go.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:47

Yeah, live photo.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:48

Hopefully, not too distracting. That was good. Um, you said earlier on, um, you know, a lot of your time, you're shaking hands, kissing babies, got your BD hat on. Right. What's the most um challenging part of selling in construction?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:02

Um, so I think initially it was being recognized. Uh, so it was selling our wares for the products that we wanted. Um I think that we've cut crossed that hurdle. Um, so I think that we now are uh at least on people's page when they come up with a list of people, a list of companies that they're going to consider for the projects that we want to build. And so I think we've gotten past that. Um I think the most difficult part um of the sales point for construction is that there's an inherent lack of trust in contractors. Um, everybody has had a bad experience at one point or another if you've been in this industry long enough, or you've talked to somebody, even if this is your first time doing a project, you're talking to somebody who's had a negative experience. And so I think the most difficult part of the sales process is establishing a level of trust in a very finite amount of time. You're not afforded a ton of opportunity to create a personal relationship. And without that, someone can't really trust you. And so I think that's the challenging part. Um, it's making sure that they know that you're gonna be. That even when things aren't awesome, that you're still gonna be there, you're still gonna pick up your phone, you're still gonna be available, uh, and that every part of the company speaks to them being able to rely on you and trust you. Um and if you can sell that, if you can make them appreciate that, uh, then you're nine-tenths of the way there. Um, I think that that level of trust is missing in the construction industry. And if you can get somebody to believe you and believe in that, then uh you're in a good spot.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:26

No, agreed. Definitely. Okay, a couple more. Um on that note, then what what is something that you know now that you wish you'd known before jumping in back in 2011?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

I wish I'd gone slower. Oh, yeah. Initially or all the way initially. Yeah. Um, so I came out of the gates and I was like, let's let's rock. Um I Brian's here, let's go. I would do I would do anything for anybody. Um, like I probably would have said yes to doing a tower downtown. Um and uh can and we wouldn't be having this conversation because I'd be working somewhere else. Um I think that what I've learned is that you need the framework there to do anything of consequence. Um, and it takes time. And so that's something that I wish I knew nine years ago. I wish that I'd come in with that perspective. I don't regret coming in bullish, I don't regret being brash, I don't have any um, you know, misconceptions about having rubbed some people the wrong way, whether it was inside the company or out. And I don't feel badly about it because I needed to say who I was and what I was about and how I was gonna change things and where we were gonna go and be vocal. Um but I regret not taking a step back and um letting the noise die down and go, am I doing this in the right time frame with the right people by my side, uh, with the right people to partner with industry wide uh to make sure that these steps don't force me to go backwards a few. Um I wish that I'd come in with that.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:50

Absolutely. And clearly you have done a lot of things well.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:54

Yeah, more a lot more good than bad. Um, but uh you know, there's there's a couple steps there that if we were to go back nine years, like people say, Oh, you can't dwell on the past, like there's a couple things I'd delete for sure. Um you know, uh learning can be really expensive. Yeah. And so uh there's some of those lessons that I didn't need to pay for.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:13

Absolutely. It's cool that you can look back and think, you know, like you would do something differently, but like last night you said I thought about it for like maybe six minutes. Yeah, right. So that's pretty cool. Last one, this is a good one. You said you guys had experience on site as as laborers initially. Um, you grew up in the construction biz, you're doing site visits, you're going there today. What is your most memorable story from a job site?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:36

Uh, there's probably a few. Like they're they're all very different. I think that my most memorable experiences from job site in this iteration of my career, the past nine years, or when I walk onto a job site that is um the size of something that I didn't expect us to do, more complex than I thought we had the capacity to undertake when it started. Um that has been really memorable for me. And like we walk into 145,000 square foot office TI downtown, and I walk on on the day that we finish, which is the day that we said that we would, and we did it in six months, and I'm like, that is memorable.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:08

Um, but from like the comedic side, it's probably back to when I was a laborer and um I always got the worst job. So I was the boss's kid, and so I remember we were renovating uh the choices on 57th and uh East Um East Boulevard, and there's a crawl space, and I was given a small jackhammer, and I was told to go in the crawl space and go and get rid of a part of a wall, and I was in there for three weeks. So three weeks. Um you had food and water. Yeah, exactly. And uh a good friend of mine uh was given the same job. He showed up day one and he quit after the first day. And uh so that was a memorable moment. Um, fellow named Jeremy Lake, who was a superintendent when this company started, uh we were working down on Mole Hill and redoing a bunch of heritage homes there for um BC housing. And uh we had an excavator there that could have dug out space to put cribbing in order to lift these houses up. But Jeremy elected for me to do it with a shovel, and so that was a memorable experience where I'd had to go and dig holes for us to put uh these houses up on stilts. So that was awesome.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:17

Um he knew that he knew this, and he just here you go. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:21

Uh there was one hole that he asked me to dig, and he knew very well that he'd asked me to do it in the wrong spot. And he showed up when I was done, and he's like, I apologize, you need to go and do it over there. So it's those sorts of experiences. Did this come from Dick, or was this just my my my dad was very aware of knowing that we Matt and I were not given the the best roles. Um, and that was intentional. Yep. Uh, but there was also a part of Superintendents wanted to make sure that we it was very clear on site that we weren't favored. Yeah, and so those those are the experiences that uh uh were always fun as the Libra.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:53

That's that's awesome. They're bringing some memories up for me too that we could go on and on about, but yes, and they really refine you and shape you being out on the yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:01

So for kindred kindred staff listening to this podcast, yes, consider yourself lucky. Yeah you've been uh in the dirt, pick up a shovel, just dig that hole, no doubt.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:10

Cool, Brian. This has been a fantastic conversation, and I know that we could probably go on and on. And you know what? Given that this outlook you gave for the next two to three years, we'd probably have to do a part two.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:21

I'd love to. Okay, thank you guys very much.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:24

Yeah, thank you very much. This is awesome. All right, guys. Thanks for listening to The Site Visit, a podcast dedicated to leadership and construction with perspective from the job site. If you like the show, please subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, or Google Play. To learn more, check us out online at thesitvisit.com.