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The SiteVisit
Leadership in construction with perspective from the job site. A podcast dedicated to the Construction industry. Construction professionals, General Contractors, Sub trade Contractors, and Specialty Contractors audiences will be engaged by the discussions between the hosts and their guests on topics and stories. Hosted James Faulkner ( CEO/Founder - SiteMax Systems ).
The SiteVisit
Building Better Construction Teams Through Strategic HR and Mentorship with Traci Austin, Chief Talent Officer at Elevated Talent Consulting
What if the key to solving your construction workforce challenges was hidden in plain sight? Tracy Austin, Chief Talent Officer at Elevated Talent Consulting and host of the People Strategy Podcast, reveals that the complaints you hear on job sites contain valuable information about what your team actually needs to succeed.
Traci offers a profound shift in perspective that can transform how construction leaders respond to workforce challenges. When companies learn to decode workers' complaints rather than dismiss them, they unlock powerful insights that lead to higher quality work, greater employee engagement, and significantly improved retention rates.
Drawing from her unique background, Traci bridges the gap between construction operations and people management. She outlines three core programs that help construction companies retain valuable talent: a structured mentorship program for the first 90 days, leadership development that empowers workers to take ownership over quality and teamwork, and strategic retention planning that includes one-on-ones and career pathing.
Austin addresses one of construction's most pressing challenges: bridging the generational divide between traditional "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality and younger workers seeking work-life balance. Her solution centers on creating clear, cascading goals that align individual aspirations with company objectives, allowing for flexibility in approach while maintaining commitment to shared outcomes. This alignment helps companies accommodate personal needs while ensuring project deadlines and quality standards are met.
For small construction companies without dedicated HR departments, Austin's "satellite HR" approach provides accessible expertise without the overhead of full-time specialists. This model helps even the smallest contractors implement professional people strategies that dramatically improve workforce stability. Ready to transform how your construction company retains its best people? This episode provides the blueprint you've been searching for.
PODCAST INFO:
the Site Visit Website: https://www.sitemaxsystems.com/podcast
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So where are you calling in from today?
Speaker 2:I'm in Wisconsin.
Speaker 1:Wisconsin.
Speaker 2:Oof yeah.
Speaker 1:Wow, okay, this is very, very cool. And what's the political feeling down there right now?
Speaker 2:You know it's a mix. However, we're in a town where Diane Hendricks lives and has her businesses. So if you know, Diane Hendricks, the ABC supply company and huge construction.
Speaker 1:Right yeah.
Speaker 2:So you know there is a very strong support of Trump, but then you also have a very you know it's polarized, it's incredibly, incredibly polarized.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah so yeah, that all in podcast is very good to listen to, because they just it's.
Speaker 2:I'm going to. Oh, I'm going to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's the Silicon Valley guys.
Speaker 2:And then David Sachs went into the Trump administration as the crypto czar, but he used to be the fourth host on the podcast.
Speaker 1:Oh, amazing. Yeah, so they kind of helped Trump get in, but now they're because they were very liberal before then. They got to know Trump and then they all went to the White House. They all got to know him. But now they're very smart. Guys Like Chamath Paliyapati is a billionaire. They're all from Silicon Valley, ex-facebook, so they're all smart guys. But now they're actually looking at the tariffs and trying to figure out how this is going to work and they dissect it very well.
Speaker 2:Amazing. I'm definitely going to listen to it. It's the last episode.
Speaker 1:I think they get into it at about 39 minutes and 55 seconds, so I would scrub forward All right.
Speaker 2:Wisconsin known for cheese, right, yes, yeah, known for cheese for sure.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the site. Visit podcast leadership and perspective from construction with your host, james Falkner.
Speaker 2:Business as usual, as it has been for so long now that it goes back to what we were talking about before and hitting the reset button.
Speaker 1:You know you read all the books. You read the email, you read Scaling Up, you read Good to Great. You know I could go on. We've got to a place where we found the secret serum. We found the secret potion. We can get the workers in. We know where to get them.
Speaker 2:Once I was on the job site for a while and actually we had a semester concrete and I ordered like a Korean Finnish patio out front of the site show.
Speaker 1:Yesterday I was down at Dallas and a guy just hit me up on LinkedIn out of the blue and said he was driving from Oklahoma to Dallas to meet with me because he heard the Faber Connect platform on your guys' podcast Home. It crush it and love it and we celebrate these values every single day. Let's get down to it. Tracy Austin, calling from Wisconsin. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2:I'm doing great Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:You're very, very welcome. So you've got a podcast of your own.
Speaker 2:I do. It's called the People Strategy Podcast and we focus on building people's strategies in trade organizations so folks stay long term because it's much easier to retain than it is to hire these days.
Speaker 1:Yes, I would agree with that. Very expensive to hire.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Getting the fit and the onboarding and the oh, it's just such a yeah, just keep the people you have, so much better.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and there's some fun strategies for keeping the people that you have. You've got to listen to what they're saying, which a lot of times comes out in complaints.
Speaker 1:Oh, in complaints, that's interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know, if you think about what are the key complaints that you have in, you know your clients, what specifically comes up and you know knowing the type of platform that you're running and I was kind of taking a look at that what are the complaints that your clients share with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, it's interesting that I always find that the developer and then into the GC, this is basically just a transfer of business problems all the way down to when the thing's built, and that transfer of problems. I find that at some point I think great companies have a very even distribution of those and understand what they all are. I think companies that don't do well are the ones that try and hide it all. And you end up with this passive, aggressive pressure because you're not open enough.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and that's a key of what you just said being open enough, because if we're willing to listen to the complaints, every complaint is just a poorly worded request.
Speaker 1:Oh, I like that.
Speaker 2:And so, as we listen to our employees, a lot of times when they feel unheard, they're complaining. They're complaining about not having the right tools, they're complaining about not having enough people, they're complaining about not having enough information for what's needed, or so-and-so didn't show up. All of those are actually requests. So when we can really listen in to what the complaints are and understand that they're requests and turn them into a request, we start engaging our team because they feel heard and they're getting what they need in order to be successful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a very good point. Well, I'm sure in the time of this podcast, everyone's complaining about these tariffs, so it's gonna be interesting.
Speaker 2:Yes, they are. They are complaining about that. There's a ton of complaints about that.
Speaker 1:Are those requests that are never heard or requests of a different type of complaints? I have no idea what that was. Yeah, all right.
Speaker 2:I think that there's some fog over what's really going on and what's the whole picture? It feels like a bit of a lack of transparency.
Speaker 1:It is a lack of transparency. Well, the problem is that not a lot of people really want to dig deep into it. They just want to hear a soundbite and then make their judgment. But yeah, that's. It's a very difficult time we're in, but yourself and ourselves here at the Site, visit Podcast and and SiteMax we're trying to give more information, so that's good. All right, so let's get into it All right. So there's music and we will cut now to you again. So what's Wisconsin like these days?
Speaker 2:Well, it's spring and it's cold. Yet what I love about Wisconsin is the and both that you have politically, because it leads to some amazing conversations. It's an amazing place to grow a family because you've got. The cost of living is lower than most parts, yeah, and you have four seasons, and I love four seasons.
Speaker 1:Four seasons are great we have that in Vancouver.
Speaker 1:I mean, I will say that the wet rainy is too long in the tooth, Like it gets and even right now it's just dark and oh, I can't handle it, yeah, but um, so it's interesting to I'll find that the, that the um, the HR elements and, uh, the culture piece of construction is highly correlated with cost of living and cost per square foot, um, in the areas that they're uh, you know that we would be discussing. So what's the average home price value, detached home price, in your area?
Speaker 2:At this point it's about $275,000.
Speaker 1:$275,000. Okay, so yeah, almost just around under $400,000 Canadian. Yeah, because here it's $1.2 million wow again.
Speaker 2:Wisconsin is a great place from cost of living and to raise a family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and that 1.2 million is is not a great detached home in vancouver, right, yeah, so, yeah, it's, it's interesting, um, so maybe just give us. I'm fascinated to talk to you because I think we're we have we share a lot of similar perspectives. I'm sure I used to have an HR branded employer background of doing employee value propositions in my old career, so I understand the HR positioning and sentiment paradigm pretty well. But let's just chat about you. For instance, how'd you get into this? Give us your background.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. I grew up in a family where my grandpa ran his own home building construction business that my dad was a part of, and my dad now runs a GC. My mom was in HR, so I kind of fell into this and both between the two.
Speaker 2:So I've been in HR for 20 plus years at this point and really specialize in construction trades. Why it is so much fun seeing the impact, especially when we can create such an impact and ownership with you know line staff that are out on the site, knowing that they have a voice in what's happening and they become really engaged, which means the quality of their work improves. That's really fun.
Speaker 1:And so your consultancy and just tell us sort of the work that you do so your consultancy and just tell us sort of the work that you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely so. What we do is we work with organizations. Really, once folks are hired, we're focused on retention and leadership. So we have three core programs. One is on mentoring the first 90 days and providing individuals that opportunity to learn some leadership skills while they're on site so that they one are given permission that they can impact positively what's happening with co-workers. Otherwise, the complaint we often hear is well, they're not pulling their slack, they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing. Therefore, I have to do it all right. So well, guess what the resolution of that is? It's time for you to step up, and we're going to give you some tools to do that, while having some ownership within it, so that these new guys and gals coming in stay, because one of the biggest issues is, the more we turn over, the longer it takes for folks to get up to speed, and it results in lower quality and it results in lower quality.
Speaker 1:All very, very usable tactical strategies you have there. So what was the impetus of the name Elevated? You just decided that was the.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the impetus of Elevated Talent was we're a predictive index partner, so we do use the behavioral tools to get fit to role, but also aligning teams together. When we have a strategy, we're executing. If we don't have the right players on that team, you know it doesn't execute well. The other piece of that is we all have strengths. Well, the opposite of every single strength is a weakness, and I would much rather turn up the strengths of every single person on that team than play whack-a-mole on the weaknesses and so elevated we elevate each person, versus playing whack-a-mole on the weaknesses, because that's no fun and that drives turnover as well.
Speaker 1:So what do you think is one of the biggest disconnects between leadership and the workforce doing the work?
Speaker 2:So I think one of the biggest disconnects between leadership and the workforce is that engagement and what's actually happening. And so you know, what we find is that great leader has enough time in the field, on the job site, understanding what's happening. There's empathy for what's there. They're curious about what's really happening and not just the sound bites of what's happening.
Speaker 1:I see.
Speaker 2:Because you know, if we can understand what's happening on a job site, if we've got a guy that's been with us for 20 years and all of a sudden we start seeing performance and the complaints about this guy coming up. You know the question is, what's really going on? Versus he's just not working out, let's move him out. Well, let's figure out what's really going on. And the way we do that is we really start looking at that and say, first off, let's go ask him what's going on.
Speaker 2:Right and this is an accountability tactic as well, right, and I don't like the word tactic necessarily, but it is, you know. So it's essentially saying, hey, what's going on? And he's probably going to grumble and say nothing and we say OK. So here's some data points that we're seeing. We really want to understand so we can support you. A lot of times, we find there's something going on at home, there's something going on with health, there's something going on that they don't want to name. Well, if we haven't yet built trust, they're not going to share that and we can't support them personally, which means we can't support them professionally, which means the productivity on our job site is going down.
Speaker 1:Right. So I've always wondered this is that depending on the type of construction that is being done? Obviously, on the GC side you have some self-performance individuals who are working on the site and then the sub-trades is a little different of a ballgame because they're all showing up at someone else's job and depending on what that trade is, on how technical it is, you're going to see a different distribution of income, a different distribution of happiness, depending on what kind of a trade it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure know what kind of a trade it is yeah, for instance, if you are, um, if you're doing more of a dirty, very manual job versus, um, uh, wiring internet, fiber optic cable and having to go to trade school for five years to know how to do that. Right, right, right.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so we work with air balance controllers, which, if you think about air balance controllers, this is like second tier subs, Right? And so you know, most of these organizations are 10 employees, like you know. The bigger ones might be 50, but they're tiny.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so within that, they're in doing some pretty grunt work. Most of them are trained, pulled right out of high school. They're trained. They're not necessarily going to a tech school. So the key here is how do we gain the ownership, which I think was your question. Right Is, how do we gain the ownership of these individuals? And part of that is the mentorship that happens. So what is the relationship, especially with these small companies, between the owner and these new hires coming in or their second person, because a lot of times they're still running the tools. The owner's still running the tools. They're still out in the field.
Speaker 2:And so the key is when we can create really strong mentorship programs. It creates ownership because now they start to see a track into some other areas of responsibility if they want it, and the ones that don't are as golden as the ones that are, because we still need the experienced guys and gals that show up and do the work each day. A lot of times you're going out on two-man cruise with us. We need the folks that take ownership in it, that take pride in what they can look at and not have to go back and redo a job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, fair enough, you know a lot of. I had a fellow named Sean Gray who was on our podcast and was talking about how much money is wasted on redos and redos. There can be many factors on why something's being redone. It could be back to the drawing level, it could be a whole host of of reasons, um, but typically it does come down to somewhere down the value chain.
Speaker 1:is project consciousness was slipped somewhere someone wasn't paying attention to some detail and it ended ended up, uh-oh, they come to look at an area where they're supposed to be doing work and we can install this here, because this is not what the drawing says, and that happens a lot.
Speaker 1:Also, though, you have to have a workforce that is able to have enough capacity in their attention to be able to pay attention, Correct, Correct, and you know, with the intersection of you've heard this a lot of mental health and construction you have a lot of. In many industries also, like in the military as well, you have a lot of inherited life issues that come into the workspace. So, for instance, somebody could be coming to work and they're already redlining mentally. They've already got you probably heard that you can only hold five to seven things in your attention at any time, and when a lot of those spots are taken up by things that are just eating away.
Speaker 1:You can't shut them out. It could be a marital issue, it could be a financial issue, it could be your children, it could be a whole host of other things, but you need the bandwidth to be able to do a job well. So what I'm always curious is in terms of when you're saying you're trying to retain the people you have, what responsibility is it with governments and like programs that are coming to help the sub-trade that does have 10 employees that might not have these programs in their mind? They're redlining to begin with. They're dealing with jobs that are going sideways. Not all jobs are profitable and sometimes they have to show up on site as well and do this self-performance as an owner. And do this self-performance as an owner and now they're expected to now be coaches and mentors and mental health experts. And you know, in order to help this go forward, what responsibility do you think there is for programs, tax breaks, et cetera, for that small business owner in construction to be able to help those people to retain them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and that's such a phenomenal question. And there is one of my favorite podcast guests, which may soon be your podcast guest. His name is Bruce Martin.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:Bruce works in actually for Marsha McLennan so, but he is solely focused on mental health in construction. Yes, he still does the site visits.
Speaker 1:Yes, he still does all of those items.
Speaker 2:But what I've really seen here and I partner with him quite frequently is really looking at and saying how do we support individuals and ensuring that, with the insurance packages that are available, that one mental health is included in it?
Speaker 2:And two that your employee assistance programs are is included in it. And two, that your employee assistance programs are also included in it. But there's been enough research within that and sharing so that the stigma is taken off of mental health and the EAP, so that these individuals can really get the support that they need. And the key here is tying that support into the work performance and the quality of life, because we all have seasons of life right so earlier in the show I had mentioned.
Speaker 2:Hey, this individual that's been with us for 20 years all of a sudden performance is dropping. What the heck's going on? It could be divorce. It could be wife has cancer, it could be a kid just ended up in rehab. It could be all of those things that have a huge impact. So here we need to look at an and both of what's available and ensure that they know what those resources are, Because, guess what, the company owner is not going to know that as an organization of 10 or even 50.
Speaker 2:You need to have a really good insurance broker that is on your side, that can take this on to say, yes, here's what we offer and here's where that can support. And you know. The key with all of these is who's on your team to help this in the specialized areas right, we specialize just in coaching and leadership development. We don't do anything else. Why? Because we can do that really well. It's going to be the same thing in each of these other areas is build your team so that you can easily make a referral and there is an obligation that you do have that built in and that those are available through the health insurance options. Otherwise, our workforce continues to decrease because they don't have the support that they need to be successful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a very, very good point to be successful. Yeah, that's a very, very, very good point and it just made I've actually never really thought about this until you just mentioned that point is that you know, human beings, regardless of income level, all have similar problems.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we do.
Speaker 1:But the thing is when you said impact the impact for somebody who's making 50 grand a year versus the impact for somebody making 150 grand a year?
Speaker 2:Significant.
Speaker 1:It's the same human issue but the impact is just confounded by a whole host of things. I mean just the life situation of struggling to begin with and then this event happens and it completely can take them out, especially in the US, like with health insurance et cetera. Can you just double click on health insurance with construction companies in general? Is there what percentage, would you say, of these companies that have 20 or less employees have the kind of insurance that is contributing to 401ks, like that really kind of good insurance? Would you say it's a large percentage.
Speaker 2:So, based on the clients that we work with and of course I don't have the numbers in front of me, so I'm trying to go through my head of what I know, right, yeah, the more professional ones, like the engineering firms, and and those have much more than some of the others. And what I will also say is each specialty area does have different profit margins, right, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2:So each specialty area does have different profit margins. So you know, you're plumbing, your electricians typically have a higher profit margin than, let's say, your air balance controllers, for whatever reason, right. So with that being said, that is going to impact, you know. But each state also has. You know, the different impact. In the US there is this magic number of 50. So below 50, it's essentially focused on what your experience is for your group of employees versus over 50. What your experience is for your group of employees versus over 50. You're now in group programs. That is a different level. So it's much, much more expensive for organizations under 50 than it is over 50.
Speaker 2:And that's a huge impact as well, which isn't great for the number of small businesses that are in the US, and there's a significant number of them, especially in the trades.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always find there's a significant number of them, especially in the trades.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I always find there's a cultural thing and maybe you can add some extra color to this when we're trying to bring the younger generation forward in these smaller companies. They need some inspiration and some role modeling that connects with them. And I think sometimes when the owner-operator is demonstrating frustration constantly and demonstrating that things are hard and that has a huge mental impact on the possible motivation of the lower workforce, because the signal to them is, even if I crush it, I don't even want that person's job because I don't even like what they're going through. Right, and when I was growing up and you know I've had very few jobs but the you know, growing up I was pretty much an entrepreneur since I was young. But the couple of times I did have a job, I always looked up at the owner or the senior leadership and you know they always had a nicer car or they had better clothes or they had a better life and they had a better home.
Speaker 1:you know good family, all that kind of stuff and it would be a role model that you would aspire to be. And I think in construction, I think, because of the soft skills that might be missing on the leadership side, that owner-operators kind of miss that piece.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that there is some of that and I will name. I've not really experienced that where I live, and so you named earlier. Tell me about Wisconsin, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Tell me about. So we have something incredible here called Hendrix CareerTech, which that's a part of ABC American Builders and Contractors. You know it's one of the sister companies and what's great about that is Hendrix CareerTech offers for kids as young as sixth grade, taking them into all the trades. So you know, my kids have gone through a youth apprenticeship program in construction. They went through a plumbing two or three day, they went through welding, they went through hospitality. They went through all of these different trades. Hospitality is not a trade, by the way.
Speaker 2:However, you know it was all of the different opportunities so that they can figure out very young what they like and what they don't like. And you know Ken and Diane Hendricks, you know growing up in this town where they founded their organization. What I absolutely love is they're instilling this dare to dream. So there's so many small organizations that have grown out of this idea of when you can dare to dream, you can step into it. So as an owner, you do have a responsibility for how you paint that picture, and how you paint that picture A thousand percent has an impact in how those others are going to step up, because you're the example and if you're not a great example, you're not going to have great employees, right?
Speaker 2:So you know what you bring in is also what you're reaping within this.
Speaker 2:You know, and when I look at other organizations that I that I worked with across the country, you know, and talking with many of these owners, like I'd mentioned earlier, it's really getting them the opportunity to share the concerns that they have and create solutions in a room where they're not with their team.
Speaker 2:So when they go back to their team, they have the ability to separate out. Here's the example that I'm setting and why and let's not forget the things to be grateful for and what the gratitudes are with many of those focused on leadership. I always start with what are your three wins, and I have every single person name what are your three wins this week, including the owner. The reason for that is it's so easy for us to go negative, but not always easy to really acknowledge the things that are going right, and that is a culture shift, because now we're starting to focus on what's going right and what happens is that snowballs into more and more things going right, because now we're starting to focus on what's going right and what happens is that snowballs into more and more things going right, because now we've created the accountability around it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a very good point. So how does that get squared for the different generations who, let's say, are typically I don't want to get political, but I'm going to because typically it is they built America, it's Americana, it's very and this is a positive note this is a more conservative mindset, and they're having to hire the liberal millennial kids who have been bubble wrapped and they're going I, my values, are not transcending here and not connecting, because I come from the school of hard knocks and we're gonna think, think tough, and we're going to build America and we're going to do these things. And then the millennials are like, yeah, but you know, I need work-life balance and I need this and all the stuff that they've been told over the years which actually is costing America money. Correct, it's not actually earning us anything. So how did? How do you square that from a leadership point of view? Do you hear that a lot? Do you hear that there's? I do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, this pull you know we're going to pull yourself up by the bootstraps, right? And this also goes into we're making 50 grand a year versus 150 to 200 grand a year, right? There's a completely different safety net there, right? So I just want to name that, that sometimes, this pull up by your bootstraps, it's a completely different safety net there, right? So I just want to name that, that sometimes, this pull up by your bootstraps, it's a very different bootstrap we're pulling up today than we were 40 years ago. So, with that being said, there's two key ways that we really look at that. One is what are those organizational values and are we naming it? So you talked about employee value proposition earlier. You know we want to ensure that our organizational values are aligned with an individual's personal values. If they are not, then guess what?
Speaker 2:You're not going to be a fit and we shouldn't be hiring you into the organization period. Yeah, there's some gray area here, right, and so the key is, what can we continue to kind of look at and say we both agree with this and that's typically goals. So what are those goals that the individual has and what are the goals that the organization has? And this is where we cascade goals. We've got our organizational goals by quarter for the year. We have the leadership team goals by quarter for the year, then we have the individual team so that could be different departments and then the individual goals. Those goals need to cascade. So if the you know, if the goal is that this job gets done by this date at this budget, and X, y and Z, guess what? That's the goal. Can we all agree that that's where we're going? Yes, okay, let's talk about what it takes to actually get there.
Speaker 2:Right now we're shifting into these others where our approach to it becomes incredibly important to merging the pull up by the bootstraps and just get it done into. I want to have work life balance. This skill I want to get, you know. I want to get into the apprenticeship program and I want to make $90,000 a year. Okay, guess what. All of those things are possible, but here's the reality for the possibility of that. Are you willing to have enough skin in the game to hit that goal which aligns with the goals that we have? And now we can ground ourself into goals so that, when we need to work Saturday and we need to work a 12 hour shift on Saturday because that's what's needed Did we agree that this was the goal that we're going towards?
Speaker 2:Yes, we did. Amazing. Now it's also paying attention and saying hey, I understand, you've got a kiddo that has a baseball game on Tuesday and Thursday nights at 6 PM. Yeah, I'm going to make sure you're at that game at 6. If I have to kick you out at 545 to get there. Yet I will need you here on Saturday. And this is the and both of what's important and knowing our folks enough to know how do we play the and both with it. Yeah, so that we're meeting the needs personally and professionally.
Speaker 1:Wow. So can I ask you just a little bit about your business? I mean, do you? This is a very cerebral conversation we're having here and so, and a lot of companies that are, you know, 10, 20 people they don't have, they can't afford an HR manager.
Speaker 2:No, they cannot. Right so they absolutely cannot.
Speaker 1:So is your service to provide this piece that's totally missing, because this coordination piece, working with leadership, for them to be able to see the light, for you to align values, et cetera, for you to have a pitch that is going to resonate and will generate the prospects to have fits on the onboarding side of things. And is that part of the service that you guys do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it, 100% is. So this is what we call our people strategy roadmap, and what we're doing is we're saying what is your business strategy? How are you going about doing the thing that you're doing? What are the results that you want, both now, this year and in the future? Right, we need to know how this thing is growing. What does it look like? And what happens in the middle is people and processes.
Speaker 2:You take care of the people that we need to execute on this strategy and that's where we start putting these pieces together and that's where you know the coaching of either the owner or whoever's in that executive leadership team comes into place. And then we bring in our three core programs, which are mentor program, which goes back to how do we onboard our individuals, because we know if we have a poor onboarding program, they're going to leave and they're going to be providing, you know, not very great work. They're not. It's not going to be quality work, because we haven't set the accountability of. This is the expectation at the beginning. So we start out looking at job description, which everyone rolls their eyes at. It's an and both to it, but we need to know what is the quality of work that's acceptable and required, and then we hold everyone to that bar, including the owner, as we talked about earlier. Otherwise our quality starts to go.
Speaker 2:So we've got the onboarding program, our new hire mentor program, then we have a leadership development program and we take a very much a coaching approach, as you can probably hear yeah, you know, it's not, you did something wrong, you know, blah, blah, blah, and we're yelling at you for it and somebody's throwing a cell phone through a trailer window. That was, you know, the old school construction management. What we're doing is we're really looking and saying we're coaching folks because we don't want to give them a checklist where they don't have to think for themselves. So we're going to start asking questions. What do you think the impact of cutting that corner is?
Speaker 2:What's the structural impact of what we just did? What's the impact going to be when this hospital gets up and running and XYZ doesn't work right? We start asking the questions so that they start questioning the quality of work that they're doing, without telling them you just did a poor job, right? I don't think anyone probably responds very well to that. We will for a short term, but if we understand the reason why and we feel engaged in the process we start to take ownership, and that's what we work on through our leadership development program. And then our team retention program is focused on one-on-ones and talent, pathway planning and performance management. So those three programs, coupled with the strategy and the coaching, is what we do.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's awesome and I would imagine that you know being this sort of satellite HR layer. So, for instance, I'm just going to add a little color to that.
Speaker 1:In my old career. I used to, when I had the brand agency. We used to have a something called brand satellite and I would pitch the fact that typically most companies can't afford to have a brand manager. It's a hundred and plus thousand dollar job back in that time this is 15, 17 years ago, right? So I used to say for X dollars a month 17 years ago, right? So I used to say for X dollars a month. We will, our agency will be that and you have access to call us anytime. We're a consultant for you, and that was a small retainer for a fraction of what that would cost to have that person.
Speaker 2:Do you have that same Yep, it's the same exact thing, perfect.
Speaker 1:That's so good, because you know what, that it's such an important layer that it takes a huge amount of pressure off that owner-operator to know that they have a layer that is fully communicating what they are wanting. Because I find what happens is a lot of employers are kind of on their best behavior when they're hiring but they're kind of not being that genuine because they're just they need that worker so bad that they're going to just act really good, and then the person gets in there and like, wow, this is what I thought it was going to be. That person was on their best behavior at the time. So you, so it's. I think what you're, what you're doing, is really, really great, because there's a lot of myths going on. Can I just ask you about this one thing that I've? I also have these like themes of, you know, being a brand guy and a storyteller and all I always think of things. Concept of construction in its essence is a transfer of dreams. So I know and this, I know it's gonna sound weird, but I want your perspective on this so when a property developer um sees a parcel of land, they get a vision. They go this is what I want to do here. We could, probably.
Speaker 1:It's not always just about money. Sometimes it's like it's a passion. There's a design element. They want to be a positive impact to the environment or wherever they are. They want to make a great building and they want great design. They want to influence design around the area. There's lots of altruistic things that kind of happen there, and it's not just about making the dollar. It's making the dollar with fun and with passion as well. So you take that passion and where I think there is a miss in construction is that all the way down the value chain, you're and the developer expects that passion to be transcending all the way down to the field worker and they're like I can't even afford to live in this thing that you're dreaming about.
Speaker 1:So, why should I be passionate about your dream of misalignment of passion and value? That I think there are probably a lot of smart people out there, a lot smarter than me. Maybe you're one of them who can put programs in place to transfer that passion and make people understand that there is value in delivering for other people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:There is value in delivering for other people, yeah, and what's important to them and to have this empathy that you're trying to make something good in the world. The project is important. It's not just about your job.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely, and some of that comes through with questions right.
Speaker 2:And I mean and I'm going to tell a story here, then circle it back. You know I remember driving around in the truck with my dad, with him pointing out the buildings that he was a part of building. Yeah, and that pride, right, and so much of that. Even you know the guys that I will talk to. You know I do a mentorship program for several construction companies, but when locally. You know, one of the questions that I asked them is why do you do the work that you do every day? These are framers. You know, these are line level.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Some of them are in an apprenticeship program, some of them are not. And you know that question of why do you do what you do. And they're like because we are making this town so much better than what it was before. The blight that used to be on the corner is now this beautiful four-story condo building. You're right, I can't live in it right now, but I don't have to look at that other thing anymore.
Speaker 1:That's a very good point.
Speaker 2:And it's making this community better for my kids. I can drive around town and say, hey, I was a part of building that building. As I'm looking out my you know window right now, looking at a building across the street, and that pride and that excitement of what is the legacy that you want to live and when we can start to ask those questions of our team members coming in and at the start of projects, it's one of those that becomes really important. And my son, who's 17, did a youth apprenticeship program last summer and you know, and he's doing another one this summer for a local GC, and he'd come home and I'm like, how was work? It was awful. Well, why was it awful? All I did was sweep all day long.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, what was the impact of sweeping? Well, I don't know, it was clean. Well, what was it clean for? Well, so that we could do this or that. And I'm like, well, what building were you working at? Well, I was at the library, cool. So what's the impact of that on our town? Well, I don't know. Well, here's the impact for me. Does that maybe translate for you? So sometimes it's having those questions to start to pull the curiosity out.
Speaker 2:I will tell you it doesn't typically happen inside of the conversation.
Speaker 1:No, it does not, it shows up later on. Right, yeah, do you think there's an alignment of values in general in the corpus of culture these days? That is just expecting things without any patience, and people want things way too quickly these days.
Speaker 2:Oh, I do. I do believe that and that's part of the culture. It's a massive piece. Yeah Well, the other thing that I will say, without getting way too political here, with our education system, however our education system is set up to, I tell you how to do it. You do it that way.
Speaker 2:We've taken so much creativity out of our educationing space that used to be an old paper mill. You know, like the innovation to recreate what we have to enable community to come together through these buildings is incredible, and that we have to tie back to what is really important. And there is a cultural change in mindset that we unfortunately have, I am finding, have an obligation with our employees to shift based on the way the school systems are versus the way the cultures are inside of organizations. And yes, it's very different from a 10-employee organization to a 50-employee organization, to a 100-employee organization. There's huge distinctions between that. And if you don't create the culture consciously, it'll create itself, and we define culture as the behaviors that you allow and don't allow to happen. So what are we going to create and how are we going to hold the accountability so we can take pride in the building that we just drove by?
Speaker 1:You know what? You are the first person who has echoed what I've been saying is culture. That I've heard, that I actually have heard, because you have said the same thing, because a lot of people talk about culture. I mean, it's such a buzzword. I've heard it for years.
Speaker 2:I hate it yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, so my definition of it is just the same thing you just said. I've always said it's the net behavior of an organization. That's what the culture is. So you guys can decide whether to steer it in a way. You can't define it. You can steer it, hopefully.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if you can steer it with yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:So if you can steer it with things that are are going to make an impact, then you know if it's like if you have a corporate value of uh, we don't like jerks, for instance, okay, well, live and breathe that if someone's being a jerk, give them a warning If they do it again. Sorry, you don't fit here, so, um, but I love the fact that you just said that about culture, because I find what's funny about it is a lot of people underneath leadership. Obviously, the people working at companies expect culture to be this top-down initiative that just happens and they don't feel they're accountable for it at all. They just want to receive it. They don't want to participate in it, which I find is it's poor leadership when you don't explain that to people. So, for instance, if you want, I always said this with my older company. It was if you take care of the company, the company will take care of you in a time of need 100%.
Speaker 1:So I'm asking you to put the company first, within the bounds of our employment agreement.
Speaker 1:So, do that, and then there's going to come a time when you're going to not be feeling well, or you're going to need something for your kids, or there's going to be a life event that you need a company to say they put their neck out for us and now it's time for us to repay the favor. But I don't think that that is the beginning behavior today. I think it's what have you done for me lately? Attitude coming into a company, what are you going to do for me, especially when there's a tight labor market? Yeah, I'm here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know that you've got five positions open. Those positions have been open for three months and I'm here. So, yeah, give me a good offer. That kind of attitude Whereas it's good that they're showing up, I guess hire that person that's toxic from day one, because what ends up happening is you lower your bar and setting out very clearly here is the expectations, but here's also what we provide. And that goes back to that employee value proposition. And you know what? There's sometimes smaller organizations that may pay a little bit less and some actually may pay more, but it's looking at and saying what is the culture we're creating and what's incredibly important within that and how we're building it. So you know that WIIFM is typically across someone's forehead, yet it is. What is it that you want to contribute? Yet it is. What is it that you want to contribute? And that I love that question because what do you want to contribute and what will drive you to continue to stay at that level? And I'm really looking for that person that's hungry. They may not have any of the skill sets, but they're hungry. Great, we can feed that. And what's important to you that you have as a takeover Sometimes I hear it's XYZ truck that I'm working towards or it's whatever.
Speaker 2:It is Right, guess what we're? I'm going to take that into account and that becomes a piece that, whenever we do a one on one, that's a check in piece. Hey, how's that account going towards that truck, you know? Hey, I know baby's due in three months. What plans do you have for that? Right, we're truly checking in personally, you know.
Speaker 2:It's I don't know the, the radical candor book, right, care personally, you know, and when we can care personally, that translates into to the, the trust, but also the commitment where I'm going to do anything for you, because I know you're going to do that for me too. And we have a high level bar that we both want to reach, because that's the accountabilities that we've set up and that's the culture that we've set up. And when someone starts to fall underneath that, I know it's going to immediately be addressed. If it's not guess what that's on the manager and the owner of the organization. You just are killing your culture. So let's have those hard conversations, let's have those tough conversations, but let's do it in a way that has empathy and that has compassion and has strong levels of accountability to raise that person up, because more than likely you see them bigger than they see themselves.
Speaker 2:That's awesome so let's get them to that high level point.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, there's been many times where I've seen a young individual who is just wide-eyed and wants to do something, and it's like opening a pop can. That effervescence of youth and vulnerability and innocence that wants to do something, that I think is one of the most precious resources we have. And how do we get more of that? Because I think what I'm seeing from a youth level is less of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm not seeing those people coming up and I think you definitely see it a lot through. I won't bring religion into it too much, but I think that the religious framework often provides that that respect.
Speaker 1:You know I'm not a particularly religious person but I do have a lot of religious friends and I see their kids and I go. That's kind of a better operating system. It doesn't matter what religion is, just in general, just something that has some kind of a framework of community respect. And I think it's those that sort of don't have a lot of values to begin with that show up with more of an expectation than they do with that archetype that I was just mentioning. So as you and I were chatting about culture there and saying this, the net behavior do you see a huge difference between leaders who are charismatic and those who are flat?
Speaker 1:Depending on the zip that people have on the work site from a leader that's like has a character. You know there's a lot of people like that.
Speaker 2:Right, and I think so. There's two things. I want to go back to what you just said about youth, so I don't want to lose that point. But onto the charismatic versus flat. I think what's more important than charismatic versus flat is can I trust what you say, that you're going to do it, and can I trust that you have my back? Both a charismatic person can do that and a flat person can do that.
Speaker 2:That's the integrity part, yes, but both the charismatic and a flat person can also not have the integrity to follow through on it. So I guess I'm looking at it more from the integrity Thank you for giving me the word from the integrity standpoint than from you know how rah-rah out there are they Right, and I do think that that is important, along with the natural behaviors of the individual. We have some folks that are just very out there and you know they want the accolades for everything, and others that just want to put their head down and do the work. Yeah, the key here is what support do they receive, right, and some are never going to ask for it and others are going to complain about what they don't have versus ask for what they want, right. So I do think that that's a key there. And, as I love your pop can analogy, because it's like as soon as you open it, you get like the carbonation and all that fizz, but the longer it sits, the flatter it sits right.
Speaker 2:So I think a key here with this is knowing every single person has the ability to pop that can open no matter what, and it is our job to capture those bubbles and say, all right, we're going to capture the carbon, the bubbles, the carbon.
Speaker 2:I love it. We're going to capture that carbon and we're going to. We're going to figure out how do we continue to reignite that, based on what's important to them. And you know, when you were talking a little bit about religion versus non-religion, I spent my first 10 years in nonprofit organizations and I worked with a program called Fresh Start. So these are kids that have been kicked out, expelled from the public high school and come into this work program, which they're teaching them trades. And I have to tell you, in my time working with these kids, they felt so unseen and so misunderstood and therefore started getting involved with gangs, started getting involved with groups because they were given the attention that they didn't have at home. Mostly one parent households, other things were going on at home that was not paying attention to the kids that were there. So not that we as employers want to be parents necessarily of new hires coming in.
Speaker 2:Yet at the same time, there is a piece here where it looks at and says what does this individual need to hit their highest potential? What does this individual need in order to go from here to here? And how much of a pain in the ass is that going to be and are we willing to invest in it? Right Now there's the and both with it, because there's some where we can create programs that work incredibly incredibly well to work folks through that. Yet when people feel seen and heard and that somebody has their back, they will do just about anything to get that. And I do think that that's a really important piece because that first 90 days you know they may say something or they may do something. If we don't hold them accountable immediately, that behavior will continue and that onboarding period is the most important period you're going to have with a new individual and an individual long-term. If that individual didn't have a great onboarding, those behaviors follow all the way through.
Speaker 2:So I'd love for your listeners to really think about how are we onboarding our team and are we instilling the culture and the values and the behaviors immediately with it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a very good point. I can think of many examples where you see a significant veneer that is there and then when you get into the company it's like, oh, I didn't think it was going to. I thought it was gonna be better than this Right yeah, and so and that's exactly what you're saying is that you know you're not living up to the standards of your. It's almost like you know you could call it, in a elementary point of view, of false advertising you know Right the bait and switch.
Speaker 1:The bait and switch. Yeah, exactly, but yeah, that's a very, that's a very good point. I don't think that there is enough attention, you know, like the whole body syndrome concept.
Speaker 2:The body syndrome Body syndrome was basically.
Speaker 1:like you know, we need a person to fill this role, Just fill it.
Speaker 2:Oh, the warm body syndrome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, don't do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know Don't do that. But I think a lot are like that because it's the transfer of problems.
Speaker 1:Right, it's a you could call it. Is it people power? Is it still manpower? I'm still confused. We need the amount of, you know, hands-on site to accomplish, you know, the contracts we have, et cetera, to finish the project. Yeah, so I think there's a you know not having, yeah, that clear communication program. That's consistent. That's the other part. You know, one thing we used to do on the employer brand side of things which was really hard to do, especially in big companies. I did them from big banks, like multi-billion dollar corporations, and what was hard was having an employer value proposition that was attractive for new hires and attracting new prospects, but one that the current workforce, if they saw those job ads out there, that they would go. Yeah, we're like that, because often what would happen? And they go, they're advertising this. It's not like that in here. There would be a misalignment of reality from what they're trying to pitch.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:So that can very often happen. That's that veneer again that we're talking about. So if there is a possibility of being able to have a aligned onboarding, transfer and communication of values and a fit conversation because I think that there is an opportunity to really engage people when you question whether or not they will fit with you, it's like having standards. You know, you probably have said to your clients like this many times. It's kind of like dating right, when you meet somebody you either are so desperate that you'll just take anybody or you're going to say you know what, I kind of have a standards for a partner or a relationship that I want to get into. I just won't accept that I have more self-esteem than that and that corporate self-esteem sometimes is totally missed. So what you're doing with making sure that the values of the company are a communication piece that mirrors the corporate self-esteem, so that there is this we just don't just take anybody.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:And if you work for a company that just takes anybody and everybody, you don't feel like anybody I know that kind of sounds. You don't feel value if anybody can just get what you have, because there's no exclusivity there or you didn't.
Speaker 1:There's no earned value there, whereas if you go into a company that communicates clearly that they don't just take anybody, well, I got in, okay. So there's an uptick for me. There's like, yeah, I got into this company. People say that They'll go to a barbecue and they'll say so. I heard you start a new job. Yeah, there was tons of candidates, but I'm the one that got in. They don't accept anybody. That it's crazy to know what that message and confidence will do to a person, how that will change over time how they see themselves in life to a person, how that will change over time how they see themselves in life. It might just be that job, but it set them on a completely different trajectory to a different place in life that they didn't have that experience.
Speaker 2:There's so much pride in it, right, there's so much pride specifically in that. So, if your listeners are going, okay, how do I do this?
Speaker 2:I just I want to give you some quick things to think about, of how you can do this and again, we don't do the higher portion any longer but what we would do is we would set up a scorecard that was based on very specifically what are the behavioral traits that we need for this job? So we're very specifically looking at things like detail, orientation right, we're very specifically looking at are they able to follow some of these processes yet still have some creativity when things go wrong? And you've got to figure out how do I make this thing fit? It doesn't follow the plan, but I know we've got these other items that we have to take into account. Company values would be the second piece of that. Then the third would be the skill set. So what are they walking in with? So we're looking at those. That scorecard for hire rolls over into the same exact scorecard that you are going to be measured on for your performance appraisals. That impacts your bonus.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Gotcha.
Speaker 2:What's added to that, then, is those personal goals that align to team goals, that align to organizational goals the cascade that we talked about previously, and that becomes a way that we can say can this person get this job done?
Speaker 2:When we start doing that now, once they're inside of the organization things like being able to be eligible for an apprenticeship program, being eligible for the mentorship program that we talked about that gives them additional leadership training, also gives them that sticker on their hard hat that says that they're an apprentice, which means that any new hire can go to. Those are really big deals, right? I mean, it's amazing when I'm teaching these mentor programs and they're so excited for the sticker at the end, right, like, it's incredible because it shows the distinction of how they have expectations up front, and I love bringing up and saying what is the definition of good? If you and I don't have the same definition of good, one of us is going to be sinking the boat and one of us is going to be out there doing this gangbusters job and upset at me for not doing good work when I think that I am. So it's so important we have really clear definitions up front that we all agree upon, so that we know the expectations.
Speaker 1:Jeez, you've been doing this a while.
Speaker 2:I can tell you're very good at it, so you can see the passion here I do, I do fun because when we create clarity, folks step into it yeah, no, that's very good.
Speaker 1:The um. You know, when we prepare for these podcasts, as you know, we kind of send notes around emails and you know tatiana who coordinates she's awesome, coordinates the podcast she's phenomenal yeah, we get, if we get a few questions, and I've got one point here and I know we, as I do. You know what the cool thing about the conversation we've had is Is I do have four talking points here that are. You know, bring these things up. This is not a question and answer period, this is a conversation, but we've covered everything already.
Speaker 2:Amazing.
Speaker 1:But without actually asking those questions, which is cool. But there is one specific thing that I just want you to respond to is one of the first thing was stop bitching, start pitching, and can you? You know before we? We've been an hour and a bit now, but I really want to make sure that you that's yeah, it's got a lot of sizzle, so give us what you mean by that.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. We actually talked about it at the very beginning and that was how do we turn complaints into requests. So when we say stop bitching, start pitching, it's really about listening into you. Walk out on a job site, you hear all of the complaints of everything that's not working. Well, every complaint is a poorly worded request, right, so pitching equals request.
Speaker 2:So as leaders we need to start listening into what is the request so we can start asking for it, which means we're pitching for what we want and need in order to get something done, and sometimes that request is as simple as I need a different tool, or I need you know an outline of how to do this, because I've never done it before. Sometimes it's will you hold this person accountable because they are completely dragging down our entire work site? Or can you, like, hold this person accountable because their attitude is stinky, right, it makes everyone else not want to work. So this idea of stop bitching and start pitching really goes into company culture. How do we shift from complaints into hey, I'm empowered and I have the permission to make the request for what I need. I may not always get what I ask for, but guess what? The better requests I have that tie to the goal, the more likely I'm going to be to get it. Therefore, I'm going to start making better pitches or requests, because it's going to elevate everyone.
Speaker 1:Ah, okay, Well, that was a great tie-in. So yeah, I've been looking at that for an hour. I'm going, what does this mean? So, yeah it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Well, that's awesome.
Speaker 1:Okay, Tracy. Well, how do people find you and how do they hire you guys? Where do they find you?
Speaker 2:Absolutely so. Our website's elevatedtalentconsultingcom, our leadership class. We have a cohort starting beginning of May and that one is virtual. I do have ones in person, but that one is virtual. If you wanted to put two people in it, I always recommend two people because then they can bring it back and they have somebody to bounce it off of when leadership says no because they don't understand it yet. So two people is key. Also, check out our podcast. It's called the People Strategy Podcast and we go into you know all of these people strategies that impact the quality of work that you're doing and keep your folks engaged, which means that they stay with you, continuing to perform high quality work.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. Okay, well, this has been awesome. Thank you very much, tracy.
Speaker 2:Thank you.
Speaker 1:Well, that does it for another episode of the Site Visit. Thank you for listening. Be sure to stay connected with us by following our social accounts on Instagram and YouTube. You can also sign up for our monthly newsletter at sitemaxsystemscom slash the site visit, where you'll get industry insights, pro tips and everything you need to know about the site visit podcast and sitemax, the job site and construction management tool of choice for thousands of contractors in North America and beyond. Sitemax is also the engine that powers this podcast. All right, let's get back to building.