The SiteVisit
Leadership in construction with perspective from the job site. A podcast dedicated to the Construction industry. Construction professionals, General Contractors, Sub trade Contractors, and Specialty Contractors audiences will be engaged by the discussions between the hosts and their guests on topics and stories. Hosted James Faulkner ( CEO/Founder - SiteMax Systems ).
The SiteVisit
The Gap Between Field Expertise and Business Execution with Chris Clausing
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We explore how construction can close the gap between field expertise and business execution as AI accelerates change. Chris shares a candid path from project manager to GC to educator, laying out practical steps to protect margins, grow teams, and build resilient firms.
• AI as a copilot for estimating, not a replacement
• why labor shortages persist in hot markets
• field-to-executive pathways that actually work
• lightweight PM habits that lift margin
• standardizing takeoffs and tracking earned value
• subcontractor entrepreneurship and scalable growth
• branding challenges and the case for the trades
• using plan reading and specifications to prevent rework
• how admin automates while trades endure
• selecting high-potential leaders and separating roles
Contractor Training Center is our website so contractortrainingcenter.com … please connect with Chris Clausing on LinkedIn … give Chris a call or instant message on LinkedIn
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Cold Open On AI Voices
SPEAKER_01Chris, thank you for joining me today. How are you doing?
SPEAKER_05I'm good. I'm good. Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're very welcome. Those weren't AI, were they? No. They're real people.
SPEAKER_02Yes. That's good.
SPEAKER_05As far as I know.
SPEAKER_01You never know these days. It's tough to tell.
SPEAKER_05There's it's so real. We we I did a I did a uh webinar on AI in general, and uh it's just crazy. Uh the the agents now are they sound you can't tell them that apart from a from a real human being. It's
Zero Latency AI And Customer Service
SPEAKER_05crazy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was watching um uh they have just come out with a zero latency response. So basically what it does is for this is for a customer service, etc., for phone calls. So what it's doing, it's actually usually there's a there's a lag because it's listening and then sending the server crunching and then sending back. But this is listening as it's and it's thinking as you're still talking. So there's no lag. It was insane. I I will send you the link to that video because it's pretty impressive. So yeah, it's gonna get to a point where we don't know what and who, or yeah, it's gonna get pretty crazy.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's it's heading that way for sure.
Episode Setup And Guest Intro
SPEAKER_01So today we're gonna be talking about uh you and the contractor training center. And we've got a bunch of topics. Um, you know, typically, uh as everyone knows before because we don't know each other, uh, we figure out some things that we can chat about and things that can be valuable for people to listen to. Um and you're from Florida to uh today, so you're Miami. Not Miami Beach. Miami Beach?
SPEAKER_05Not Miami Beach. We're I'm I'm closer to Coral Gables, so uh the the calmer side of the of the city, I would say. Yes, a little a little too old for the from that. When I first moved here, Miami Beach was all about Miami Beach. But when you have uh children, suddenly Miami Beach is not at the top of the list.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. Uh that makes sense. Perfect. Okay, well, that's pretty cool. I'm really uh excited to chat with you. Um, you know, we get a lot of people wanting to to come on the podcast, and you know, some there's not usually a lot of fit um on in some regards, but uh you're right up our alley here with uh with some of the topics we talked about. Um, you know, just in terms of where the industry's going, you know, how people's skills are uh things are evolving, uh things are changing. And uh for people to stay on top of the industry, um, yeah, it's a it's a tall order and it's things that people don't realize that they're gonna have to learn how to do. And um the industry is really, really evolving. So I'm really looking forward to this.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I'm excited. And it's, you know, construction has never been an early adopter of technology, and so it's always lagged behind. It's really stayed flat in terms of productivity and efficiency over the last 50 years, but those times are changing. AI is really changing that. And then I would say the the new crop of professionals coming in, replacing those who are uh transitioning out of the industry, retiring, they are very tech savvy. And so I think it's it's really heading that way, and you can already can see it in real time.
SPEAKER_01Perfect. Okay, well, let's get into it. Welcome to the site visit by leadership on construction.
Chris’s Path Into Construction
SPEAKER_01All right, so we are back. Okay, so Chris, uh, let's just talk about you for a minute, um, your experience understanding construction, so how you got here, and then the contractor training center. Just give us the the full overview there of how you got into all this.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, absolutely. So I I grew up in Texas. I uh grew up in just north of Houston and went to college in San Antonio, which is a great city. I love love that place. Uh San Antonio is where I got my feet wet, I would say, initially in the in the late 90s in construction. My uncle uh had a construction company there. Uh I moved to Miami in 2000, uh, chasing a girl here, of course, and uh now my wife. So uh I started working for a developer in early 2000s where we specialized in, I was a project manager for for his company, and he specialized mostly in mid-rise, six-story-ish uh projects, uh mixed use and single family residential, high-end luxury, like residential and commercial, and a lot of interior renovation and build outs and things. So I got a really good uh extensive kind of sample of different types of projects, which was really great. And I worked for them for about five years until I went out on my own. And because the you know, the economy started to make that have a downturn here in 2007-2008, and so I had to go out basically and drum my own business at that point. So I became licensed in Florida as a certified general contractor and started my company Closing Builders at that time, okay, and just started doing basically kitchen, kitchen remodels, uh renovations, some commercial work, uh just whatever I could get. I mean, you you just hustle and you get whatever you can and and uh did that for several years and uh transitioned into more inspection work at that point. The just I kind of followed the money where the opportunities were.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Uh but that that sort of led me to a contractor training center, who which is also part of a bigger company that has two other brands uh that construction education brands. But so I started working with a contractor training center about five years ago, I would say, five or six, five or six years ago, as an instructor and a subject matter expert for their for their construction and contractor education products. Um, and now I uh continued working for them for that period of time and across some of the other brands, but now I oversee a portfolio of government contracts where we do workforce training for small businesses that are looking to do projects with the Department of Transportation. So uh it's been kind of a long and winding road, but that's that's
Founding A GC Amid The Downturn
SPEAKER_05how I ended up where I'm at today.
SPEAKER_01Fantastic. So what's the uh what's the the time span that you've been uh working with a contractor training center?
SPEAKER_05So I would say it was it's been about six years now, uh kind of off and on. But I I worked uh work very closely on their uh development of their NASCAR program, which is this uh basically a nationwide uh licensing exam prep product that they have, and also develop a lot of their continuing education for uh licensed renewals. And again, just do a lot of the SME work. So making sure that the content they put out is is really high-level, good content, stuff that's relevant for the contractors, and and also in compliance with all the different state requirements uh for every state's a little bit different. So that's that's basically my involvement with the CTC, but um uh also been developing a lot of the industry training and different things for because right now my focus is really the workforce development. So, really getting
Contractor Training Center Overview
SPEAKER_05contractors or people who want to get into the industry, how do you get them up to speed on plan reading and estimating and construction project management and those types of really core uh competencies that they're gonna need to be successful, whether they go out on their own or if they're gonna be working for a firm, they're gonna need to know these basic skill sets. So that's been a big focus over the last uh, I would say two years.
SPEAKER_01Wow, very cool. What do you think that there is uh do you think the the ideal scenario is somebody who has come from the field and then gets into that or somebody who's totally green? And then I guess if there there would kind of be it's analogous to you know, somebody um who's planning how the football game's gonna go. Everyone can, you know, draw arrows and and uh and check marks and what player is gonna go where, but if they haven't actually been on the field and torn an Achilles, they're uh it's the the consciousness of what and the impact of what's going on, it just seems to be, I would imagine, uh a little less visceral uh to those who haven't had that experience. So ultimately, is there's everyone looking for people who've had field experience and then are now um on the management side?
SPEAKER_05I I would say it kind of depends on the market conditions. Uh but for the most part, yes. Uh I got I got into it being fairly green. Now I had a uh, you know, my family had a connection there, which helped. So you take advantage of wherever you wherever you can. But I I would say there's definitely appetite for for new let's see, new new entries into the industry. Those sometimes typically will be, you know, lower, obviously entry level type of work. So it could be administrative, it could be just field work, really, you know, site visit, you know, being on the job site and and working,
Workforce Development Priorities
SPEAKER_05and those can be very long days. So uh, but I think there is definitely now that we have such a labor shortage and we have such an exodus out of the industry too, that more and more people with less experience, I would say now the market condition is that there's more space for them. When marketing conditions were very tight, for instance in 2007-2008, when the economy, especially in South Florida, was collapsing and construction came to a screeching halt, it didn't matter how much experience you had. No one could find work at that point. Uh it was very difficult. So certainly if you didn't have any experience, there was no way you were getting into the industry. And I think even that, even that, that period of time, which is about a three-year period of time, is almost really is still you're feeling the impacts today. You had so many people that got shut out of construction over a long period of time and moved on to other industries, and now you have this work shortage and people who and really you don't have a high high enough skilled workforce here. There's very few people that know how to do high-rise construction, specialized HVAC, specialized plumbing, and some data centers and things like that. Those types of skilled labor are very scarce in our market. And I just feel like that's really a byproduct of that period of time where so many people were denied entry into construction because of economic factors. And now we're we're seeing that come out in real time with workforce shortages and not enough skilled labor. So I think that's a great time to get construction if you're new, if you're considering it, if you're coming out of high school or college and you're thinking about an opportunity in the trades, I don't think there's a better time than right now to get into it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know I would agree with you. Do you think that the industry in general has a branding problem?
SPEAKER_05Oh, for sure. Uh for sure. I think I think it's uh especially especially on the subcontractor trades, you know, there's
Who Enters Construction Best
SPEAKER_05always this, I don't want to say stigma, but it's kind of a stigma uh to come out of high school or college and go work for a trade company or be a uh superintendent or in in the construction industry. I think most people have been told you gotta be you gotta go the doctor out or the lawyer route or get a bachelor's in business administration and work in an office. And so I do think that that there has been definitely a branding issue. And I think a lot of that too comes from you know elimination of shot classes and teaching of trades at a at a young age. If you, you know, of course, if you don't, if you're never exposed to construction until high school or college, or even after college, it's very difficult to think that, oh, that's a path that I should go. And it's very hard to envision uh success down that road. But if we could, if and and you're starting to see it now, there's a lot more initiatives to uh fund you know, high school shop type programs, workforce training programs, alternate routes past college, because college just you rack up so much debt and you come out for what, you know, a $40,000 entry-level office job, and nobody wants that. So um I think I think the branding is starting to on its own come back because construction has still been very resilient and uh the wages are high, the work is hard, no question. But uh I don't I don't see any less work ethic, to be honest, and people may argue with me on this, but the generation coming up to me work as hard as I've seen, they're a little more uh potentially uh demanding of what they want, which I think is a good thing. They kind of know what they want, they don't just they don't just go the way that people direct them to go. But um, but they are hardworking and they are ready to learn, they're tech savvy, and I'm excited for the crop coming up. Um and I I just hope that that continues to grow and grow and grow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I would agree with you on that. Um the the the generation sort of graduating now and coming you know out of high school, um, that's a good generation. It's a di it's a different than the millennial generation, I find. Um, there was a lot of coddling before. And now I don't think that's there as much as it used to be. I know that um you know, my daughter and her uh the and the other,
Labor Shortages And Lost Decade
SPEAKER_01you know, um people that she hangs out with. I mean, just as an example, you know, the basketball team, for instance, yeah, they're all dude dudes. It's yeah, I mean it's it's a different thing. I'd and I I don't know what it is.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I I agree 100%.
SPEAKER_01I mean I yeah, I I've not but uh anyway, that that gets into a whole nother conversation.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, that's a whole that's a whole different thing. But I I would definitely say what I've what I've seen over because I'm my my son's 16 and works hard, you know, and and the and the his the kids that his kind of his cohort work really hard. And you know, these are the these are the covet kids. These are the kids who you know it's gonna be very interesting to see what happens to this particular group because you know they were they went through it, man. This was not COVID was not easy for them. You know, this was a very difficult emotional time and they got through it and now they're gonna persevere. It's gonna be very interesting to see where this generation takes, you know, takes off because uh uh it's they're they're extremely resilient. They remind me of almost my grandparents' generation who went through World War II, uh went through, you know, the the the the economic, you know, difficult times. They they came out of it very resilient, very hardworking, and and you know, of course, like changed the country and the greatest generation. So it's exciting. I I think like I said, I'm very I'm very enthusiastic and optimistic about the the folks that are gonna be coming into construction. It's gonna be very interesting.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And also the the dovetailing of technology uh in in in conjunction with that, I think there's a lot of these project management skills, you know, we've um in some of the notes that we've been sharing, you know, estimating and job costing and you know, these are like the core things people need to understand. It's not just about building Lego out there. There's there's this other whole piece where all the money is either gained or lost. Um and just a question a little bit on the um on the labor market. Um the the areas that you're serving where you have influence, for instance, um where are those, where are you noticing that there is that labor shortage? I do understand, you know, holistically it's kind of the entire United States, Canada, Western world, if you will, but is there a certain pockets you feel it's like really, really a problem?
SPEAKER_05Well, I would say definitely your larger kind of your your booming areas uh where there's a lot of construction going on, you tend to have obviously labor shortages in those areas where there's a lot of projects. So South Florida, it's it's tough sometimes to find quality labor. You can always find warm bodies.
SPEAKER_01So is it booming there right now?
SPEAKER_05Is the is the quality there? That's that's kind of the main thing.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_05South Florida is booming.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like uh there's just cranes everywhere.
Construction’s Branding Problem
SPEAKER_05Yeah, like oh my gosh, there's so many cranes in the sky right now, and so many buildings coming out of the ground. Uh Orlando's booming, Tampa, the west coast of Florida is is booming. And uh I think a lot of that is just driven by there's a tremendous amount of capital in this area.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_05Uh you you have you have it's a banking Mecca, you have international money coming in, you've got people from all around the world flocking to this area, you've got money from the northeast, they don't want to be cold anymore coming here. So you have a this huge influx, and and so with that comes a lot of opportunities. So you you see a lot of companies coming in, a lot of people getting licensed in the state, but it's also you can only there's the labor is becomes a very uh pricey commodity at that point, you know, a very popular commodity. Everyone wants to get the most talent and the most people. So I would say yeah, south, South Florida, Central, West Florida are are hot markets, and that's a lot of times finding quality labor is tough. And I would say that's true for pretty much any any area. I mean, that's pretty much, you know, I my focus is typically the southeast. Um, I'm sure that Atlanta is having similar issues with labor. Some of these bigger markets uh are tough to find a lot of people. But uh as far as professions, you know, going into the trades as an electrician or a plumber or a roofer or a shell contractor, uh, those types of things, the uh the benefit there is if you can get the experience to really learn the trade, there's endless opportunity, entrepreneurial opportunity, entrepreneurial opportunities to go out and open your own business and have your own HVAC company or your own mechanical company or your own plumbing or electrical company as a sub, uh, or even be a shell contractor for for general contractors who are building you know shopping centers or houses or whatever the case may be. Um to me, if I'm coming in now, that's what I'm eyeing. I'm looking to open a subcontract or a trade company, learn that business and and grow it. I I think the opportunities there for those for those trades.
SPEAKER_01So it's interesting, because it seems like um you know, some of the notes that we have here is that like the business management part is the is that the bigger issue that's sort of restricting everything other than the technical skills. I mean, technical skills, I suppose, is you know, whether or not somebody has that plus the business acumen or not. I mean, people can hustle and get business, but you know, can they make sure the books are okay? Yeah. Can they uh can they do all of that business admin stuff or at least hire or at least have some oversight to know that whoever they hire is doing it right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's it's the technical side a lot of times from what I see, because we train a lot of companies, a lot of people who want again want to get bigger contracts on these road work and bridge work projects. And so they know how to do, they know how to know how to place concrete, they know how to tie steel, they they know how to they know how to do pavement and striping and and they have those technical sort of skills because that's just what they've been doing pretty much their whole lives. But the business part of it is critical. I mean, if you and that's where so many of these companies get in trouble and they they start,
Tech‑Savvy New Talent And Resilience
SPEAKER_05you know, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Yeah, they don't s they don't really know how to estimate and bid properly, they don't understand the difference between like a cost management system versus an earned value management system. They don't they don't they they kind of know like do I have money in my account or not? Yeah, you know, that's sort of the the benchmark, which is not ideal.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, running the company from their bank balance only and not the uh accounting people.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, exactly, exactly. And and some of the nuance of understanding, okay, you know, I'm I'm you know, let's say it's a million dollar project, I've I've captured five hundred thousand dollars of funds, but let's say the project is only, I don't know, is is like 70% done or whatever. Like you gotta you gotta understand these earned values, these percentage completions. That's one part of it, is just the cash flow management, just the job cost. And understanding that part of it. And then the other part of it is management, you know, understanding how to hire people, how to onboard, how to train, uh, how to, you know, find quality people, and then how to manage those people on a complex project. Uh, because so idle time on a job site just crushes you, and you can't, you don't even know it's happening until you just start running out of money. And so I would say there's because there's really, even if you go to a construction management undergrad, get a construction management master's, you still need that field experience. You still need to understand how a real construction company and job site work before you can put all those pieces together because there's so much, there's so much human resource capital in construction. You know, that your product is basically people. That is where you're going to spend most of your money is managing people. So you got to understand how to schedule, how to manage crews, how to train, how to monitor, uh, how to handle all these different complicated projects with with different types of people. It's not easy. It's a very difficult thing, but there's so much money in construction. The opportunity to do really, really well is is there. It just you have to have, like to your point, you could have that business acumen combined with that
Estimating, Job Costing, And Margin
SPEAKER_05technical knowledge. If you can combine those two things, you you'll be very successful in this business.
SPEAKER_01So you had a um you had a statistic that is uh that said that 45% site that estimating is the top development need uh to protect projects and margins. You know, obviously that that um you know the gap between a uh an accurate estimate and uh the resulting change orders that come from one that is not quite right, um can just be the the death of a project. I mean you can be backwards completely on a project just based on those things alone. Yeah. Um so uh what are the things that like the estimating is is uh is is the the technology side is making that easier, correct? Rather than just a total human skill. So it's more of like a human in the loop and AI can do quite a lot of it or and how are you finding or like are there any large like models that um that uh the AI can use to to make these estimates? I mean, to make them accurate.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, there's there's several AI tools that that you know, one of them that comes, you know, there's several that come to mind that that we've we've worked with in some of our estimating classes. Uh I would say that you know, estimating is a lot of times it's more of an art, you know, than a science.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_05And with AI, like with any large language model or any kind of machine learning model, it's it's only as good as the data set that it's that it's learning from. Yeah, for sure. And so So it gets the science right?
Hot Markets And Quality Labor Gaps
SPEAKER_01It gets the science right, but the art part What's that? So it basically the the AI can provide and get the science right, but the art part is the nuanced part. Maybe a lot of the that's where the where the devil's in the details.
SPEAKER_05It absolutely and AI AI can't AI can't do that. You know, that's the one, that's its limitation. It can basically just interpret data that's there and spit it out in a way that you know hopefully makes sense to to the user, but it it's it can't do really do logic, it can't think like a human being. It it doesn't, it doesn't really it doesn't learn from experience, it just reads data and and so I mean if you have accurate data sets, I mean it can probably spit out an accurate estimate. There's so much more that goes into just the estimating process because you you've got to also understand uh you know the different types of projects that you know, different type of what type of project is it, first of all, uh the scheduling part of it, uh how how the different subs, you know, play and interact with each other, and and also just historical data on knowing that, you know, especially let's take single family homes, like you just if you the the more single family homes you do, you just start to get an understanding of certain areas that are going to take you longer than other areas and different materials that are cost you more than other materials. So much to estimating, I think, and I and then also the specifications and reading the plans, and I mean AI does play a role in all of that, but it it would just it's just not there yet in terms of spitting out an estimate that's that I would feel comfortable with without really diving deep into it and understanding exactly what this estimate is. So so it's a good partner. Um, you know, there's a saying when they came out with you know, co-pilot that it's it's it's called copilot, not autopilot. Uh it's just meant there to kind of augment and help you, but it's it's not it's not there to replace you. So uh AI has definitely a role in estimating, but man, there's so much that goes into an estimate. And I've spit out horrible estimates, I've and I've spit out estimates where I did pretty good, but uh all that is just experience that you know a machine will just never have.
SPEAKER_01So um I see here that you have another statistic. So like 42% need PM training focused on lightweight high ROI practices. Maybe double-click on that a little bit.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so I would think too, in terms of when you were, let's say you're a project manager or a superintendent, I think a lot of times there's not as much energy
Subcontractor Entrepreneurship Paths
SPEAKER_05or focus on giving them the ability to really give feedback on what types of work, like say materials or workers that are on the site, what is that generating in terms of ROI, right? How are we focused on margin? A lot of times we just focus on getting the job done, getting a job done, because that's the metric. That's the metric that we're gauged on, right? Is we want to make sure the project is on time, right, and on budget. Those are the two sort of things. But uh there's tremendous opportunity there to also incorporate and and and get feedback from our field teams on how we can do this better. You know, let's integrate them into the overall uh you know process of of running this business. You know, they're not they're not just they are the ones that see every day everything that's going on the job site, all the the subs that are there, they read the plans, they see the installations, they see all the different materials that are on the job site. I mean, what an opportunity to get them engaged in the actual executive side of it as well, and understand, like, okay, let's get them in a room. This is this is what our margin is on this job. How can we do better? How can we shave off another one, two percent on this project uh through value engineering or through different ideas or ways we could do this better? Uh, I don't think construction companies do that enough, is getting that feedback from those that are really in the field. And that really does two things. One, I think it would improve your, uh, but also I think it would increase your uh your attention of these employees because now they would feel a part of the broader organization. It would give them a path for uh advancement within the organization. Um, that's a missing piece. That's very rarely done, in my experience. And so I would encourage anyone who has field staff that they that they like
Business Acumen Beats Technical Alone
SPEAKER_05that do a great job, ask them how how can we do this better? How can we how can we improve our processes here? And you I think you'd be very surprised with with the feedback they give you.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think I think that there is definitely a track of thought where a um like the owner of the the uh construction company or the subtrade ownership, um there's a whole big bunch of financial pressures that are that waterfall all the way down to decisions that are being made on the site level. Yeah. And there is a bit of a Pandora's box situation because not every construction company is run well. Or they might be having a year that's not so great, or there's oscillations of that. I mean, we make a lot of these assumptions based on that the company's healthy. Well, and some people on the job site, um, they may say that they want this oversight and they want the transparency, they want to know all of these things, but sometimes if you basically gave them the balance sheet of the project, they're like, Should I go look for another job?
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_01Because they can't handle that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01You know, so I think it's a double-edged sword there where too much disclosure can really there's only so many parts of attention in the mind. So the last thing you want is your superintendent wondering it wondering if they should probably go look for another job because it looks like um they've got more change orders coming than they know what to do with. Uh the next draw from the developer's XYZ or from the GC, and they're like, How I don't know how we're gonna get this done. So now they go home with not only do I have my problems of how do I actually get this built, now I have all this financial stuff that and eventually they say, you know what, that's not my job. And then there's there's obfuscation where it suddenly it's like, oh, I thought I wanted this, but now I don't, now I'm under pressure. So there's a bunch of uh business problems there. Um and and leadership is it's very hard to walk that back once that Pandora's box is open. So yeah, it takes it takes a special skill, I would think, on a management leadership side to be prepared for the conversations with a larger audience that could be considered now vocal stakeholders.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. You know, I I agree. It's interesting you say that because we uh so I did I did a little work with the University of Miami, their executive construction management. It was a master's degree program track. And the director at that particular time had the same conversation with with me about uh one of their, you know, one of their stakeholders that you know is a contributor to that particular program, uh a large construction company in South Florida. And his biggest concern, the owner of the construction company, his biggest concern was the development of that executive level
AI In Estimating: Science Vs Art
SPEAKER_05talent. And and and that was his his uh you know, his sort of perspective as well is the field staff that I have, I'm finding it very difficult to graduate them to executive staff. And and I think it's it's exactly what you're saying. It's a very, you know, because the the field staff is a is one particular role, it's one particular job with its own problems, right? Yeah, and the executive is also its own complex, strange world, difficult job. And it's sometimes that track from one to the other is is not so smooth. And so their solution, what they were trying to accomplish, and and they did to by and large, was they were trying then at that point to select those who it was almost like a talent search within the company, just really being very selective about those that they would that they thought had the potential to be executive, but they would actually remove them from that role and put them in this track executive track role. So it wasn't really a trend. It was never a crossover, it was just we think you have potential to be executive. You're doing well in this role. We're doing are you interested in going into the executive track? And and they had pretty good success with that. I think to your point, it prevented that sort of that crossover and that that that I don't know, lack of clarity in terms of role. And and that that seemed to work. So it that's probably one method to do it. But also when you have companies that aren't run well and you have managers that aren't really good, and you're gonna always see that churn. I think you're gonna consistently, those companies are gonna consistently have problems, uh, people problems.
SPEAKER_01So what percentage would you say? Um, you obviously have your top-tier large construction companies, you know, you see their cranes everywhere. Yeah. You know, they've they've been around for 50, 60 years, they're kind of golden, right? They've they've got enough track record, they've got enough projects in the hopper, they're good. But then there's everyone else, all the way down to somebody changing baseboards in a basement. Yeah, so there's a huge spectrum there of the type of caliber of a contractor or a general contractor or subcontractor. So with that spectrum, what percentage would you say uh let's just stay on the commercial side for a minute. So you know residential projects, multi-use, that kind of thing, all the way up to warehousing data centers and all that. Let's just stay in that. Let's leave the uh renovations business um and single home builders just out of it for a minute. Just on the bigger side, what percentage would you say have it together? Oof.
SPEAKER_05Oof, man. I you know, I think the numbers, I think I think if if the definition of that is they're profitable and they they make money, I see the percentage is probably fairly high. And again, it all depends on market conditions. So high tide lift all boats. That that is true for construction. When things are good, even poorly run construction companies are probably going to be okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So I think where you really start to see, you know, the window the cream
Lightweight PM For Higher ROI
SPEAKER_05rising to the top is when margins start getting really, really thin. And that happened in 2007, eight, net range too. You started to see companies that weren't run well, they're gone. They were gone like almost instantly because they ran out of money.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And and also the bank stopped lending, which didn't help. But so there was no, there was you start to see that. So I think, I think time will tell. But right now, I feel like most construction companies in that commercial space who are, you know, they're they're they're sort of the beneficiary of a lot of work right now. Uh, we'll see in the next few years, you know, these things always swing, the pendulum's always swinging, there's always highs and lows. Um, we're at a a stage now, I think, in the economy where things are just flat. And we're gonna see where you know the scale is sort of waiting to see, you know, what happens. And there's a lot of market factors and things, external factors that are putting a lot of pressure on the industry right now. And so we'll see. I think, I think right now you're probably looking at, you know, over 50% of those companies are probably profitable and and operating and doing fine. Uh, but I think that number is gonna shrink as as market pressures and margins, you know, continue to come down. So we'll see. We'll see what happens in a couple of years.
SPEAKER_01So profitable is you know, typically uh medium to shortcome, a short-term outcome. Um what about sustainability? What percentage would you say there that they can get through the next 24, 36, 48 months, regardless of cycles?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I mean, I think it's just off the bat, you know, half your companies are going to go out of business anyway. Um, I think by the time you get into commercial, though, a lot of times there's already a progression that has happened. So typically you've already started smaller and smaller projects, maybe in the residential space, um, maybe in maybe maybe in smaller commercial spaces. So by the time you get into doing shopping centers or doing uh mid-rise type you know, construction or even high-rise, especially by the time you get to high-rise, there's so many things that you have to have done before you even get in that space. I mean, very rarely are you gonna be able to just come out and oh, put it, you know, hang your shingle and I'm gonna go do a six-story building. No one's gonna hire somebody ever who doesn't have the experience in that type of work. So uh I think by the time you get into that space, I think then you typically have a better understanding of the market. But I would say even then, um, you know, I've seen very large companies who had all that history, all that experience, just they almost grow too big too fast and they just collapse and they take on way too much work. They're they they don't estimate some of these projects, right? I mean, think about a you know, a high-rise type or mid-rise type building can be 30, 40 million dollar project. You know, if you're off by 10 on a project like that, yeah. I mean, that's three million dollars.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's huge bucks.
SPEAKER_05The um so yeah, so I I think, yeah, I think the I think in the next four years you'll probably
Field To Executive: A Tough Leap
SPEAKER_05see at least, you know, the first 50% already gone, so they're gone. So of the remaining 50%, I think it's another 50% of those. So I think only about 25% of the companies that you're seeing now are gonna probably even be here in four years.
SPEAKER_01But if you if you get an opportunity to speak to these people, you have the playbook for them to help them.
SPEAKER_05Absolutely. Well, I that's that's that's why, because there's very little formalized training in the industry. It's very sporadic. You might get some stuff from LinkedIn Learning, you might pick up a thing here with a trade association. And so we have a you know more of a comprehensive approach to it. So we try to hit where I think the biggest pain points, which again, leadership, kind of understanding how do you how do you get how do you progress staff from field to the executive level, get them trained on how to manage people, how to manage projects, how to manage finances. Uh, estimating is a huge piece. How do you get a high quality estimating team on board that's giving you the margins that you need to be successful? Uh, plan reading, specifications, how do you do all that? Um, you know, to read the plans so you're not making mistakes, you know, in the field. And and then again, the construction management. Those are why those are sort of our three core pillar uh professional uh or industry training products, because those are the things that I think have the most impact on companies being successful for the long term. And then I would tie another thing into it. Now we have the AI component. Yeah, so all of those things are enhanced and augmented with AI. So now it's about how do you it's almost a fourth pillar. So I think now people coming in, you it's not enough to just show them how to estimate replans and manage construction projects. Now you got to show them how does AI work as your companion in doing these things. Uh, so that's a whole new thing that that I think is going to be integrated into the whole education process for anyone who wants to be successful in the in the industry.
SPEAKER_01So, what do you think about the the AI uh sentiment out there in construction? Um there it from what I hear, there are high adopters that are like, yeah, we totally want to do this, we're into that. And there are others who are just, they don't want to even read it in the news. They want nothing to do with it, um, not from a Luddite point of view, but just more of an uh anti-establishment point of view. Like what I've learned over the years is that construction people are renegades. They are out doing it their own way. That's how they've done it. They're it's a different mindset. And it's not going with the Joneses, that's for sure. It's not, they don't you'll you'll see construction people um at a, you know, trying to, you know, interact with other people who are bankers, and it's just it's just like oil and water. They just don't even speak the same language. And it's not even a it's nothing to do with uh core skills, nothing to do with intelligence, nothing to do with interest, nothing to do with dyn uh dynamic personalities, nothing to do with that. It's just different tribes. Yeah. And um I have seen in the past three months where uh AI uh uh capability, at one point I would have needed to hire three months ago a person in the middle use utilizing the AI, but now that position is now gone. Right just because of Claude Cowork. Because before it was I needed to connect all of these pieces and it was pretty nerdy stuff. But now that's gone. So I I wonder the time investment that people have in terms of using AI tools, do they start to feel that they're just AIing themselves? out of a job. Because it what you and I talk about today will evolve into very little human interaction. So we do we do have a there there's there's an ability to 10x your output. I think that is the argument
Profitability Now, Survival Later
SPEAKER_01is that you know uh one person can do three people's jobs, for instance, or maximize and not be sort of stuck in the weeds with way too much. Especially on the PM side like I I really feel for PMs mostly because they are getting the pressure proxy straight from the client. Like it is I mean there's the let's say from a general contractor for instance, you have like your PMs and your PCs the type of coordination that they have to have done because that developer that is hire the the GC that has hired that GC, that pressure at the top there to get that margin from that GC, there's otherwise they're not making any money on that job.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_01So that's a very, very difficult place to be because you are burdened with the entire responsibility of the profitability of that job. And yet you're really not getting that much of the upside like the owner of the GC is it's kind of a weird thing. It's it's a trans, it's a transfer of of um future future um I don't know financial debt if you will like it's it's a it's something that somebody didn't actually prepare for. They what they have an interest is is buildings and probably architecture to some degree because they understand plans, they understand how things are built. There's the the sort of science that the Lego planning the Lego build if you will and there's an interest there. I mean some people love doing that and they love seeing the building finished at the end. But this whole business pressure at the top it's like hey I didn't sign up for that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So um then it's something that you have this other point in some of the notes we had I thought it was kind of interesting you know addressing the 65000 person shortage um what so is that in the United States or is that eastern United States? Because that seems pretty low.
SPEAKER_05Yeah I think um I mean that particular data and the th that data kind of ebbs and flows too it just sort of kind of depends on uh on which metrics you're looking at or which data set you're kind of pulling that from um but the uh that's a national sort of shortage that we're kind of dealing with across the country.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_05And I would say a majority of that is going to be in those sort of those specialty trades uh electricians all that kind of they you know they it's unless
Four Pillars: Estimating, Plans, CM, AI
SPEAKER_05you know is there really you know you know a a college for electricians like not really I mean it's all apprenticeships and and you come up with you you know my dad was an electrician my uncle was an electrician you know um you know my mom was a plumber you know whatever whatever the case may be and and you sort of learn the skill as you as you kind of progress through the through the industry um we have so many people retiring and getting out of the industry and there's just not enough people coming in to replace them and again I think that a lot of that is from some policy things that have happened related to uh essentially taking that option away from you know uh high school and middle school and high school students and and not promoting that path in lieu of college and now we're sort of seeing the byproduct of that so I think that you do have this this this math that doesn't work but but now I think they're getting the memo right because now you've invested all this money or spent all this money on on college in a in a degree that you don't really need in a in a market that no one's really hiring at a livable wage really you know 40 50 60 grand is not going to cut it you know I mean that's not going to cut it pretty much anywhere in in this country and um so now you're gonna start to see people looking at alternatives. The trades are a great way to do that. And there's also been a lot of workforce training money and transition assistance money that's being distributed between the states to help bring more people into the trades. So I I think that it's in it's going in the right direction. You know I know a couple people affiliated with trade schools they're busy they have you know record enrollments they're they're pushing out you know tons of students who are trained and also getting placed and so that's a good sign. But yeah this this this is something that's not going to be solved overnight it's gonna be a a a gradual shift but I think also kind of going back to that you know the AI replacing jobs I think administratively those are the people at the biggest risk. Anyone who's you know doing any administrative type of task that's AI is was built for that.
Adoption Fears And Job Displacement
SPEAKER_05The thing AI just cannot do is is lay pipe. It really won't be able to hang drywall you know it can't run electrical wire and those types of things. So in you know in that sense it's the trades are really again AI can help like if you're a business owner in those in those trades AI is a great tool for you. It's gonna help the business run more efficiently it's gonna make those administrative tasks more efficient. But that hard labor that human element man I just don't I don't see that being replaced anytime soon.
SPEAKER_01Yeah I'm always interested in the anytime soon part because I yeah I it's so weird like you we look back and we think of you know prior iPhone days I mean did we did we think social media was going to do what it was going to do before the iPhone came out? I mean we had no idea that would people be looking at these things for eight to 15 hours a day and we'd have suicide problems. I mean we didn't even see that coming well I didn't anyway with with uh with mobile phones and so yeah being able to predict where construction will go in terms of robotics and you know the integration of AI with that I mean shit we it's a it's gonna be a weird uh five years yeah and I can only imagine what the weird memes are gonna be and some of the footage of robotics getting things wrong it's gonna be a comedy of errors I would imagine it's gonna be some funny footage. Yeah but the thing is it's gonna learn pretty quick it m that it made a mistake and it won't make it ever again. Yeah. And that's the interesting part. But um yeah one one element that I I thought was interesting in the notes there was um in terms of entrepreneurial training for scalable impact so I always find this a very uh uh interesting uh paradigm is I I I I always hear about being entrepreneurial and be entrepreneurial and as though it's a quality and I think you either were an entrepreneur or you were not because the muscle you can say that you've used that muscle before say oh I'm entrepreneurial but unless you have uh there is a survival skill from being able to get through when things are difficult and you have no parachute that is really that entrepreneurial muscle that gets developed over time is I still have to go forward and I open my wallet and there's nothing in it. Yeah that right there you cannot train that it's either happened to you and you built the resilience from that experience which made you entrepreneurial or you haven't and so I I always find the the entrepreneurial training other than being an entrepreneur it's kind of like saying hey Navy SEAL training but just don't go through the training you mean to be a Navy SEAL well it's it's not gonna happen. Right.
SPEAKER_05So yeah what are your thoughts around that no I you know perfectly I kind of you know uh a little bit of my personal experience so you know when I was working for the developer right so I'm I'm an employee I'm working I'm getting really good experience I mean that it was it was a great I mean it he was difficult to work with but but the experience was great. So you know but and and I learned so much and I learned how to I learned you know connections with all the subcontractors all the trades and it really set me up for a future of of
Trades Secure As Admin Automates
SPEAKER_05being my own uh being having my own company but I mean what happened was when when the market collapsed in South Florida at that time they literally the banks pulled all the money from the funding so literally they had money to build this project they were in the middle of the project the bank said we're taking the money out and we're not giving you any more money because they didn't want to lend anymore. So I mean he my my wife was nine months pregnant with my son and we're like okay you've got two more weeks and you're you're done so that desperation of okay now I now I gotta go hustle. Yeah and that's what I had to do but it it's it's sort of that when you got to be put in those sometimes that desperate situation. Yeah and that's what really drives and I didn't have that much money I literally my the money I had was uh a little money I had saved but I just was depending on that first draw that was like just okay I I'm gonna do this kitchen. I need the X percent you know and then you know you hopefully get enough and you start to build a portfolio of projects but without that I don't know without that situation happening um it's very hard I think to to commit to to going a specific route. So I think that's that's kind of one thing. Now if you if you don't have that there's people who are very I would say who who don't like to work for other people they don't mix well with others and they they always want to kind of do their own thing and they have a lot of side hustles and things like that. And uh and again I think that a lot of that stems from desperation like you need to make money you've got to you've got kids to feed you've got a mortgage to pay you've got uh car payment whatever the case may be um so yeah I I agree with you I think I think that kind of that being in you've got to be comfortable in that state of I don't want to say desperation but to your point kind of like tight roping without a net you've got to be comfortable on that tightrope like if you don't feel comfortable on that tightrope you're going to not enjoy you're not gonna get much pleasure out of owning your own business because it is a constant tightrope with no net.
SPEAKER_01That's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_05I mean do you have um exercises and ways to explain that in your some of your training we do we we talk about we talk about opening you know your business I I think the best way to kind of explain it to somebody who you know is thinking hey I want to start my own business so my what I always tell them is okay what you need you need to approach it from a place of you know you can't just necessarily dive right in you got to kind of have an understanding of what you're doing. So do you have experience in this in this case construction like do you have any construction experience at all? Because this is that one types of business that man it's
Entrepreneurial Grit And Tightropes
SPEAKER_05if you don't have any experience in construction it's gonna be very tricky for you to be successful because there's so many things that can go wrong and the mistakes in construction are very expensive. So we try to preface it like that. But most of the people that come to us already have experience they've been in the same same situation as I was kind of in maybe they work for someone they didn't like or maybe that company's not paying them enough or they have more bills to pay. In that case that's really the to me the prime person because they do have that desperation that motivation and it's that spark of okay now I want to do this but now don't just dive in like I like I just dove in because it was I was super desperate. That's what half the companies fail. If you really want to be successful have that motivation have that drive but also have a plan. Like let's let's talk about what the first you know six months looks like what's the first 12 months look like um how many projects do you want to bring on how are you going to get projects do you already have someone in mind uh what what type of work you want to do do you have a plan for labor like we run them through all the different variables and then to get them ready you know to not only have a core nice core business but also make it scalable and because we always talk about you know growth any company can grow but if you don't have that infrastructure all you're gonna do is die. You're growing too fast and there's nothing to support that growth and you collapse. Yeah uh the the scalability is that infrastructure in place to make sure that you can grow and sustain that growth uh at scale so so that's kind of what we do we we we we put all the uh all the people that we work with who want to start a company or maybe have a young company and really make sure that they have that solid foundation.
SPEAKER_01Wow that's that's pretty awesome. Um do you think there's a correlation between industries of uh the restaurant industry so for instance I always see people business people who say I want to open a restaurant just to basically tail wag and peacock and be like I own a restaurant not understanding what it takes to make great food and you know like the and relying entirely on the passion of somebody who has no skin in the game to be able to deliver that product you know in the kitchen. Right. Um and then you have the opposite of that you have somebody who's been in the kitchen and they want to start their own business. Um both need each other in a way you do need the dovetailing of both of those skills. You do need to know what you know what it's like how a kitchen operates you need to know all that's kind of like the job site. So you need to know all of that stuff. Um you know if you were to look at like a guy like Gordon Ramsey for instance you know he trained um you know in these restaurants or Jamie Oliver and they they they were they were kitchen guys. They learnt they went all through the ranks through the kitchens first before they were able to have these great brand names household names that they've become um and so I definitely think that there is there is something to be said for that with construction and also like the sort of street credibility you get that somebody is from the trenches. You know with SiteMAX our software company I've always had that that I was always you know I've been in this industry for 14 years now but I was always the tech person in that. So I was never the guy with the you know the steel toe boots even though I had them to go on site to do demos and stuff like that. But I was always it was almost like a tribal thing. It's like you know I'm not one of them.
SPEAKER_06Right.
SPEAKER_01When um but the reality is is you know I've sort of become one of them because they know all the value that I can bring. I can make their life better. Um I can make their projects better. So and that's that's the cool thing is is that um construction and technology is not just about the the hammer swinging and and the sawzalling. It's there's it's it's about the uh delivering that project and uh all of the tools we always think of tools that have to be considered like physical physical things but technology is is that tool
Planning For Scalable Growth
SPEAKER_01um but it's still there is that bifurcation of understanding that it's not the same as the physical drill or the um yeah uh that uh piece of equipment and it's not not seen the same way but yeah it's kind of interesting times that we're at um a lot of the dull dirty and dangerous the triple Ds they are uh there's a lot of those jobs are good are are gonna be gone and that's a good thing because humans hated doing them who wanted to do stuff that's dull I don't want to do something that's repetitive like flagging for instance I mean can you tell me a robot can't can't do flagging?
SPEAKER_05Of course it can right right no and and and striping I mean where there's so many different there's so many different things like I said I think administratively I think those are going to be the the ones that are impacted the most in the beginning and and just now it's like it's already happening. You're starting to see you're starting to see just reductions in staff because we're we don't necessarily need this particular role anymore. But you know it takes all it takes all kinds I think I think you know what I what I would encourage anyone coming into the industry or who's in the industry and wants to sort of take it to the next level is uh just really embrace what what you're good at what your skill is you know in within the industry and kind of leverage that I we had um uh uh a woman that I worked with and to get her license in the state of Florida and I and I'll be honest I honestly was like this is this ain't gonna work this this is not gonna work she had just she had a young child she was a single mother uh she did not have income at that particular time uh she was kind of living on savings and she had no history of construction and but she was wanting to get her license and she she got it and uh I mean I'll be what she was really good at was interacting with people and selling and she now makes she has millions of dollars in contracts right now doing construction and she manages her own crews and she she just was really good at at getting this business and so it just taught me like anything's possible anything's possible man it doesn't it takes all kinds to come in and and be successful especially in this business so uh I encourage everyone to to jump on the the construction bandwagon's a great industry is hard but you'll never have the same day twice ever.
SPEAKER_01Well that seems like a good pin at the end there Chris I think this is a good one.
SPEAKER_05So all right so this has been awesome um how do people get hold of you um uh your website and uh are you you're on LinkedIn yep so uh LinkedIn you can uh it's at uh the handle at gc exam prep you can search me that way over my name uh Chris Clausing and would love to connect please connect with me on LinkedIn Contractor Training Center is our website so contractortraining center.com so you can go there and you can access all the different product services things that we offer we have a whole host of different products for licensing exam prep CE industry training uh the whole game
Tech As A Tool On Site
SPEAKER_05application services if you want to get uh licenses uh in in your state we can assist you there um and uh yeah and then if you go to the website you can also give us a call if you want to connect there or just instant message me in in LinkedIn I'm on LinkedIn all the time it's an unhealthy habit of mine so I'll definitely connect with you there.
SPEAKER_01Right on that sounds awesome okay well thank you very much Chris I really appreciate the chat and the banter and uh yeah great perspective thank you.
SPEAKER_05Yeah James thank you appreciate it for another