From Intern To Business Manager At Turner Vancouver - With Cayley Van Hemmen

Business runs on people, and people do not leave their real lives at the door. We’re joined by Cayley Van Hemman, Business Manager at Turner Construction in Vancouver, to talk about what work-life integration actually looks like in a high-accountability construction leadership role and why mentorship only works when we bring the whole context, not just the job title.

Cayley walks us through her path from civil engineering co-op student to intern at a seven-person startup-like Vancouver office, then through a career built on deliberate range: superintendent experience, project management, finance, business development, and operational leadership. We talk about returning from maternity leave straight into a new role, managing the nerves that come with bigger scope, and what a business manager really does when every day brings different “fires,” strategic decisions, and client needs.

We also zoom out to the BC construction industry and Vancouver construction market: the whiplash from post-COVID indecision to a red-hot market, then uncertainty tied to tariffs, residential slowdown, and public projects being repaced. Along the way we get candid about developer perceptions, public versus private delivery speed, and the fine line between moving fast and bringing in the right stakeholders. We close with what’s next for builders, including IPD and progressive design-build, plus where AI in construction and better data can remove friction in processes like RFIs.

If you got value from this, subscribe, share it with someone leading a team, and leave a review so more builders can find the show. What leadership habit has helped you support people without lowering the bar?

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Transcript

Business Is Personal At Work

SPEAKER_05 0:00

I always say business is personal, even though business is business. It's still humans running business. And the dovetailing of someone's personal things going on versus what's going on at work. Everyone brings their personal stuff to work. So whether they show it or not. It's there. It's just either silent or it's not silent. So, you know, as you're mentoring people, how do you how do you stick in all that of people coming with their stuff?

SPEAKER_36 0:27

The the separation of of work and personal life.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 0:30

You know, I think the only reason I've been able to succeed in my career is is through full work life integration. You're, you know, you have to be. I think for some people it works to have two separate lives, right? Your work self, your personal self.

SPEAKER_15 0:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 0:44

But I think you have to address that. You want to be yourself, right? It's I find it might be a little bit exhausting to have two separate personalities all the time.

SPEAKER_10 0:52

Right.

SPEAKER_36 0:53

So I think it's important you talk about the personal stuff in your life and and what you're going through because how can your mentor help you if they don't understand that part of you?

SPEAKER_13 1:01

Right.

SPEAKER_36 1:02

Um, so I would say, you know, when how do I stick handle it? I think you talk about it, right? Don't don't have your employees um carry that burden on their own. Yeah.

SPEAKER_30 1:11

Um yeah, that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_36 1:14

And maybe that maybe other people would say differently, but I think it's important to address it. It's also how you build connection, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:21

Yep. Welcome

Welcome And Meet Kaylee

SPEAKER_05 1:22

to the site visit podcast leadership and perspective from construction.

SPEAKER_23 1:28

Your hosting fourteen people do it.

SPEAKER_05 2:24

All right, Kaylee Van Hemman. How are you today?

SPEAKER_36 2:26

Good. I'm good. This is actually my second podcast of the day.

SPEAKER_05 2:29

What?

SPEAKER_36 2:30

Yeah, we do an internal turner one.

SPEAKER_05 2:32

Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_36 2:32

Yeah, called Inside the Hard Hat.

SPEAKER_05 2:34

Inside Oh, very, very cool. So, so how many of those have you guys done?

SPEAKER_36 2:38

Um, they've done so it's not me who does who leads it. It's actually um our operations manager and and one of our um project managers. Um so I think they're on their fifth one. Um and and it's very informal. Um, it's on over lunchtime, so people can just, it's a team call, they listen in and get to talk to different leaders in the company. So I think I'm their sixth guest. Um and yeah, so is I'm all I'm not all talked out, I promise. I saved the good stuff for this one.

SPEAKER_05 3:04

Well, that's good. You're all warmed up.

SPEAKER_36 3:05

I'm all warmed up though, yes. That's perfect.

SPEAKER_05 3:07

That's perfect. Okay, so you are here because you have had quite the prolific run at Turner.

Growing Turner Vancouver From Scratch

SPEAKER_37 3:15

I I don't know if I use the term prolific.

SPEAKER_05 3:17

Well, I mean, I look at it and I go, you know what, this is actually pretty cool. It's great to to um to highlight examples of people who have made it through from you know early days being an intern and then going into special projects, and now you're the business manager. I mean, that's pretty good run.

SPEAKER_36 3:33

It's been honestly, it's been so much fun. So when I started at Turner, we were seven people. And yeah, now we're over 200. Um, and that's excluding our c craft labor division. So I'm almost close to 300 now, which is amazing because it's only been 15 years.

SPEAKER_05 3:48

Oh, so like and just in in the like the the Canadian arm, you mean?

SPEAKER_36 3:52

Just the Canadian arm, correct. Sorry, and I'm just specifically talking about the Vancouver business.

SPEAKER_05 3:56

Oh, Vancouver, okay, okay, nice. Okay. So really that small that long ago, huh?

SPEAKER_36 4:00

Yeah, I know. It's been a crazy run.

SPEAKER_05 4:02

Wow, because it's such a big name.

SPEAKER_36 4:03

Mm-hmm. Well, you know, and they were mostly obviously based out of the US. And then uh 15 years ago, um, Turner decided to expand into Canada. That looked um differently in different areas of the country. So in uh Vancouver, it meant just one person coming up from Seattle, starting the business unit, and um same with Toronto. And then um Turner also purchased Clark Builders at the time. Oh, right. And they're based out of uh Alberta. Right. So that's the middle of the country. So yeah, we're kind of we started in different places and different areas geographically, and now we're here.

SPEAKER_05 4:37

Nice. That's pretty cool. All right. So

Choosing Construction For Real Impact

SPEAKER_05 4:42

back then, intern. Is that correct? Yes. Like when there was five people there? Yes. You were an intern? Yes. Okay. This is cool. Okay. So coming out of did you you go to school for to to be the intern? Like what what made them pick you? Like what were the what were your attributes that made them go okay? And how did that what was the dynamic like? Was it you know you got paid kind of crappy or did you get paid half as an intern? Like what was the deal there? Because it's just interesting.

SPEAKER_36 5:07

Yeah, no, so we we pay our interns well, but it it is hourly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:11

Oh, I see, just hourly. I see. So just not full time basically.

SPEAKER_36 5:14

Uh, but it was full time. So um I we essentially signed them up for terms. So my internship term at that time, I believe, was January to August. Uh so eight-month term, um, 40 hours a week. Okay. You get paid overtime if you work overtime. Crazy. Okay, nice. Um, yeah, but my background, I was doing civil engineering at the University of British Columbia.

SPEAKER_02 5:34

Oh, nice. Okay.

SPEAKER_36 5:35

Um, they have an amazing uh co-op program. And um, yeah, Turner was one of the companies that put their advertisement up. And, you know, at that time I was I got advice saying, you know, use your internships to try a bunch of different stuff because once you start your career, it's a lot harder to change.

SPEAKER_15 5:51

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_36 5:52

Um, so Turner was my third internship, and prior to that I was doing material testing in Fort McMurray. Um, and then I worked on the South Fraser Permitter Road Project as a quality control engineer. And then yeah, then I ended up at Turner for my third internship.

SPEAKER_05 6:07

Wow. So you're already pretty seasoned.

SPEAKER_36 6:10

Well, I mean, as much as an intern can be.

SPEAKER_05 6:12

No, I know, but I mean just I mean, some interns are not even checked into the business at you know at large. Like they're just they're just more just there because, you know, they want to get in somewhere. Yeah. And so you already came in with a with an interest in the subject matter anyway.

SPEAKER_36 6:28

Yeah. Yes, I did. Um, it's funny because I, you know, I was asked this question on the last podcast on, you know, why did I apply for Turner? And um, when I was working on the South Fraser permitter road, it was a very large project. Like we're talking over probably 500 people that were working on that job.

SPEAKER_15 6:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 6:45

Um, and you know, I my job was to write a report that was filed in a filing cabinet. And I don't know if anyone ever read it. And I used to ask my question, a question myself, if I didn't show up and I didn't write this report, would the job still get built? And the answer was yes, it would. And it really guided me to wanting to be a part of something where I was part of the project from start to finish. And if I wasn't there, yeah, maybe the project wouldn't get built. And I wanted to really show that I could add value. And that led me into working for a general contractor. And um, because it I wanted to see projects, you know, cradle to grave and really make an impact on maybe a smaller size job.

SPEAKER_05 7:23

Cradle to grave. Nice. Okay. Cradle to grave, yeah. I like the sound of that. I mean, that uh shovel to keys. Cradle to grave.

SPEAKER_38 7:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:32

Cradle to grave is a little fatalistic.

SPEAKER_38 7:34

I know.

SPEAKER_05 7:35

Just uh just a little bit. So in terms of your um, you seem pretty driven.

Learning Every Role To Lead

SPEAKER_05 7:40

Like I can already tell you're a one that goes for it.

SPEAKER_36 7:44

A go-getter?

SPEAKER_05 7:44

Yeah, in a good way. Even if we need more people like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 7:49

I mean, I think when whatever, you know, I I sorry, there's this is a basketball player's advice from his dad. Whatever you choose at wanting to do in your life, try and be the best at it. Um, so I think that drives me in in all the roles I've been at Turner. Um but I I you know, I I guess I would say I'm driven.

SPEAKER_05 8:06

So in terms of like setting goals, um you're a goal-setting person? Like, do you do your your this is where I want to be or what I want to achieve? Like, do you do this in January?

SPEAKER_36 8:20

Um, and I know I should probably do it in January. But I do set business goals every year.

SPEAKER_05 8:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_36 8:25

Um my husband's really good at setting personal goals on top of that. And I do.

SPEAKER_05 8:28

So you guys do that like as a family together?

SPEAKER_36 8:30

No, he does it. I'm trying to get better at it.

SPEAKER_05 8:32

So he does it and you listen.

unknown 8:33

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 8:34

I see.

SPEAKER_36 8:34

I support.

SPEAKER_05 8:35

I support.

SPEAKER_36 8:36

Okay. Um but yeah, I do think setting goals is very important, you know. And I would I wouldn't say, you know, when I started as an intern that I was like, oh, I'm gonna run the Vancouver business, you know, one day. But I did know that I wanted to um, I did want to, you know, maybe run something one day somewhere, right? Maybe that looked like starting a different business unit for turn or in a different location, or maybe even starting my own thing.

SPEAKER_15 8:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 8:59

And that that drove me to wanting to get exposure to many different parts of the business. Um, I'm sure you even saw looking at my career, I've been in almost every role you can think possible. So business development, um, finance, uh, project management, superintendent. Um, I always believed you need to learn every part of the business to understand it.

SPEAKER_15 9:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 9:21

Um, and so I really tried to take every opportunity that was provided to me in the last 15 years.

SPEAKER_05 9:26

Well, especially business development to superintendent.

SPEAKER_36 9:29

I mean, well, no, that that was not the the uh that was not the path. It was I was superintendent first and then business development much later.

SPEAKER_05 9:36

No, but still the cool thing is is that you know, often those roles never get to experience that kind of exposure they have to the audience. Whereas, you know, the superintendent is mostly accountable to the project manager and then on its way up, and then the customer slash client comes in and then for the brief time is responsible at that time when the site visits, et cetera. And then on the biz dev side, obviously trying to get the business. There's value propositions, promises, all of that of what that superintendent experience is gonna be like. So it's really cool to be able to uh cross-sell in your mind ideas of you know of how that would work. So from being that superintendent part, you know how to sell.

SPEAKER_36 10:22

Yeah. Well, I think you have to practice what you preach, right? Um, the only reason I can speak with conviction about what we do is because I experienced it personally. Um and they're not empty promises.

SPEAKER_05 10:35

So um you know, in in terms of like the the goal setting side, it's interesting when you said that your your husband does the, you know, is really interested in doing the family stuff.

Career Support At Home

SPEAKER_05 10:49

What do you think of this whole paradigm of, you know, when two people are together, the sort of one plus one equals three, if you're really good together? Whereas if people kind of suck together, maybe it's just like one plus one equals two, that's it. And sometimes if one of the people in a relationship's not that great, it's like one plus one equals one and a half.

SPEAKER_36 11:08

I you know, I totally believe one plus one equals three. I couldn't do anything, uh, or I couldn't have done anything in my career without the support of my husband. And I think vice versa, like we're both working.

SPEAKER_16 11:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 11:20

Um, we both have different career aspirations and we support each other within those. And yeah, it's hard sometimes, but you have to, if you don't have the support of one another, yeah, I mean it, you're gonna fail. Um, you know, we even travel a lot. He travels a lot for work, he goes to Europe, um, which is difficult because then now being a new mom, it's um you're on parent duty. Um and uh, but yeah, you I think you have to have the support of one another or or um it's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_05 11:49

Yeah, no, that's true. So so coming out of so how long have you been a mother for? Um or is it or is this the second time? This is my first. Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 12:00

So he's uh 14 months old now. Okay. Uh-huh. Um, so I'm actually just returning to I've just returned back to work um in March after Matt leave.

SPEAKER_05 12:09

Nice. I'm always curious uh to know when the uh the measurement of a child's age goes from months to years. I think do you remember that? I think it was in grown ups. It's like he's 48 months. It's like that's four.

SPEAKER_36 12:23

I think it's 18 months is when you should stop counting. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_05 12:28

Yeah, then you say year and a half.

SPEAKER_36 12:29

Yeah, then you say year and a half.

SPEAKER_05 12:30

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_36 12:31

But I it should actually be after a year now that you say that.

SPEAKER_05 12:35

14 months I think is legit, though.

SPEAKER_36 12:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 12:36

Yeah, no, that's cool. All right. Um

Returning From Leave Into Leadership

SPEAKER_05 12:40

so in terms of so this um change of career again for you, position wise at Turner, into business manager. So did that is that coming off Mat Leave? Is that how that worked? Did you get that promotion then?

SPEAKER_36 12:56

Yeah. So right after? Yeah. Essentially coming back into the new role. Um so prior to to coming back from Mat Leave, I was running our special projects and interiors division. Um, and you know, that was 50% of our business.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

So doing TIs and stuff?

SPEAKER_36 13:12

Doing TIs, um, but not just TIs, like anything that's complicated or not really a conventional dig a hole, build a building. So we were doing building extensions, um envelope re and re, um, anything technically complex. Um, and so I already felt like I was training to be this role for a long time. Um, and then when um yeah, so then I when I'm when I'm Mat Leaf and my my boss approached me um kind of midway through Matt Leave on coming back to this new role, I was nervous, but I also did feel that I was ready for it. Um, and I every challenge, every new position I've taken in my career, you feel nervous and um you probably everyone has those self-doubts, but um, I think it's how you rise to those challenges. Um so I was really excited to come back and in the new role. And really the only difference is just different building type at at this point, but all the people are are the same people I was working with before. And um so when you say different building type, what do you mean? So yeah, so um before when I was running the special project solution, I was only focusing on that and those types of projects, but now I oversee all of our projects projects, yeah.

What A Business Manager Does

SPEAKER_05 14:21

Okay. So take me through what um like the business manager does, just so everyone can kind of understand within your organization, what are the things that you're responsible for? What does your day look like?

SPEAKER_36 14:32

Yeah, so it's essentially being a general manager. And I think when when you're a general manager, you um every single day looks different. You gotta go where the fires are. Um, but I think you're also a huge part of strategic thinking of where you want the organization to go um and how do you get there. So my day could look like a whole bunch of different things. It could involve um, you know, a large portion for business development. So meeting architects, meeting clients. It could involve uh talking to other general contractors about JVing. It could involve um solving an operational challenge and um that's been escalated. Uh it could involve, you know, talking about changing our procurement contracts. Uh so it could look like many different things depending on on what what the day is and what time of the month it is. And um, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 15:23

I see. Okay. And then so how many uh do you have a bunch of direct reports? Like how many do you have to you?

SPEAKER_36 15:29

Yeah, so our senior senior leadership team is um, I think it's eight, eight people. So that includes our operations manager, our special projects uh division manager, procurement, um, pre-construction, safety, um, finance. I think I didn't miss anyone. Um I that's that that's the majority.

SPEAKER_05 15:51

But so that's those are all the people that report to you?

SPEAKER_36 15:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 15:54

Good gracious. Okay, so you've got a lot of stuff in the air then.

SPEAKER_36 15:59

Yes, but I have a great team underneath me. So it's only manageable because they're great at their job.

SPEAKER_05 16:05

Right. Yeah, no, that makes sense. Um We have this thing here where we're talking about the um like in our notes. Obviously, we go backwards and forward a little bit. There's the kind of things we're gonna talk about and not talking about. Um I watched a there was like episode three of Walking Steps or something, or some video I saw on YouTube of you. You were at a project.

SPEAKER_37 16:31

Oh, uh I actually forgot I did that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:34

Yeah. And you're you're uh you were walking around and talking about uh it's and it's because it was four years ago. Yes. And uh I think some of the things then and you think of those now, it's like, oh whoa, how things have changed.

Market Slowdowns And Project Repacing

SPEAKER_32 16:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:53

And because it's interesting, because you did say there was there's a bit of a dip here.

SPEAKER_36 16:57

At the time? Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 16:59

You did.

SPEAKER_36 17:00

But that was probably coming right out of COVID. I mean, right? Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:05

Well, uh, I mean, yeah, so that's 2022. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 17:10

And the market was slow then, right? And it was started to, yeah, yeah. And then it just rocket shipped after that, um, which is funny.

SPEAKER_05 17:17

For a bit, yeah.

SPEAKER_36 17:18

Yeah. Yeah. And until now.

SPEAKER_05 17:20

Until now.

SPEAKER_36 17:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:21

So um in terms of the I think a lot of people were sort of holding their breath for the budget, you know, a couple of months ago. And then it's like, uh, I guess everything's kind of pushed forward a couple of years or stretched out, or a lot of the budgets were kind of elongated to a longer timeline.

SPEAKER_36 17:42

So they liked the term uh repacing, repacing projects.

SPEAKER_05 17:45

Yeah, repacing. Yeah, it's a very yeah complex term. But um, so what was the what was the buzz around around the community around Turner or what what all this means for BC in construction? Like what did you guys what was the sort of coffee room water water cooler talk?

SPEAKER_36 18:04

Yeah. So I mean, and it's funny that you brought back uh like thinking back to 2022. And if we look at what the market was back then, you know, after COVID, it things slowed down significantly because there was so much indecision or and not wanting to make any decisions without knowing what was gonna happen. And then, you know, getting to 2023, that's when things fine people were finally like, okay, we're building now. And the yeah, the market was just red hot, um, residential, commercial, all pretty much every area.

SPEAKER_16 18:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 18:34

Um, ICI. And then um, when the tariffs came in, that's when we really started to see it slow down again. Um, and pretty much for the same reasons as COVID. Everyone wasn't sure what was gonna happen. Um, and that happened, you know, late 20, or sorry, 2025, right? 24. Yeah. Um and uh then there was this big uh thought process of oh, survive until 25. The market's just in this place right now, and then once we hit 2025, it'll start picking up again. But we found that it's actually continued to stay in this period of flatness. Yeah. Um, and and obviously with everything going on in the residential market, that work has pretty much dried up at this point. Um and that's created a really interesting market dynamic now. Um because you know, you think, okay, there's a dip in residential and then commercial potentially will be busier. Um, but then with the BC government's um budget, the a lot of the projects were repaced or canceled, um, and in introduction of more taxes. And uh that's also had an interesting outlook on the commercial market too. And what we've seen as well is residential uh contractors are now moving into the commercial space, um, and so making it more competitive.

SPEAKER_15 19:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 19:58

And um while the commercial projects are also getting shelved, so generally just a overarching market tightening. Yeah um from a provincial lens and also on the residential side. Now it's not all bad news. I think what on the up on the other side, we're seeing some some markets being, you know, picking up again defense spending is at the highest it's ever been. Uh, but those are only in specific areas in Canada.

SPEAKER_05 20:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 20:26

Right. And uh not a lot of those projects fall in the lower mainland of BC.

SPEAKER_05 20:30

Well, there's a lot of um I get uh I get this email from uh we have a a government consultant who gives us all of the different grants that are available. And uh there's big ones for defense.

SPEAKER_32 20:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 20:43

So there's like there's all this federal money flowing around for that stuff. So yeah, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_36 20:49

So yeah, so it's interesting. I think our eyes are on what's what's next, um, for sure. Um yeah, and I'm and I'm curious to see where the market goes. I think there's still a lot of question marks, but we're definitely in in this period of uh wait and see.

SPEAKER_05 21:07

Yeah. Well, I mean, there's I think there's been some some decisions that have been made over the past um and we we don't have to get into it too much, but um I think the certainty of British Columbia is something that needs to sort of come back. And you know, you could argue that the I mean there's the foreign buyer's ban. Let's hope that it kind of quietly doesn't get renewed in January.

SPEAKER_36 21:35

So I've actually heard that the government might be waiting to see to not yeah, that it doesn't come back timing perfectly with FIFA after everyone comes here to see how beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 21:47

I know, because I was thinking it's almost like an expo, right? Yeah. It's a mini expo again.

SPEAKER_36 21:52

There's so there's I think there's conspiracy theories that they're timing it in that way. You don't think so?

SPEAKER_05 21:57

I don't know. I mean I don't know. All I would say is that, you know, I had a I had a conversation this a couple of podcasts ago with um with Chris from ICBA.

SPEAKER_36 22:09

I actually listened to that one. It was good.

SPEAKER_05 22:11

Yeah, thank you. Um but there definitely does need to be this sort of self-esteem of business in British Columbia again. Like we're it seemed like, you know, our office is in that um that new Boza building of 320 Gramble Street. Beautiful building, amazing. Um, but yeah, it's there's a lot of a lot of uh units in there that are still empty.

SPEAKER_36 22:34

I I know. And that building has a very interesting backstory too.

SPEAKER_05 22:37

Um because it's a strata, strata building.

SPEAKER_36 22:40

The first office strata ever downtown. Um, and yeah, sold out in 24 hours, I believe.

SPEAKER_05 22:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 22:46

Um, yeah, and then a lot of units didn't close.

SPEAKER_05 22:51

Well, shout out to the builder because they nailed it.

SPEAKER_36 22:55

It's beautiful. It is stunning. We did one project in that building. Oh, did you? Yeah, yeah. Nice. It was a really yeah, we loved working there and it's absolutely gorgeous.

SPEAKER_05 23:04

Yeah. So, um, but anyway, so I, you know, I walk, I live in Cole Harbor here. I walk, you know, to work and back. And I kind of, it just seems to me that there's this, there's just a lack of a zip in everyone's step. It's almost like we've all got hammered too much. And um, you know, it's I I think for for us to sort of what we don't really talk about much is how do British Columbians all make more money? Like we just need to focus on that. How do we become competitive on the world stage?

SPEAKER_36 23:40

And there's so many factors related to that. I'm yeah, we're missing, I think, true entrepreneurship. Yeah. I mean, it's actually quite sad to think about how many companies that were started here and then moved to the US because you get better tax breaks, more opportunities. Um yeah, like Slack is one of them. Like, wouldn't it be amazing to have a headquarters here? Um, I just, yeah, there's I think countless ones that you could name. So we'll see. I I think we, yeah, we're having an identity crisis, is the best way to say it.

SPEAKER_05 24:17

That's very well, well put. In terms of so what was the identity before and once it now?

Vancouver’s Identity Crisis After Tech

SPEAKER_36 24:22

I actually feel like we were this tech hub in the last 10 years prior to COVID. Um, this is kind of the Canadian HQ for any tech companies, right?

SPEAKER_15 24:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 24:32

Um and look at Amazon, right? Like they have their um the full post building, which is a million square feet. Um, and now with with COVID and the ability to work from home, um they people don't have to work at an office seat. So why do they have to be based out of Vancouver, one of the most expensive cities in all of Canada, um, when they can live somewhere much cheaper, and that provides a lot of the things Vancouver can provide. Um so I so we're searching for what is that next industry? And I don't think it should be housing. I don't think it should be um uh just tourism. What else do we have to offer?

SPEAKER_05 25:18

I think you're right. Because because in the past, what it has been is a yes, tourism and condos. Yeah, well, Airbnbs. Yeah. Well, or just or speculative real estate. Yeah. And it was huge. It was huge everywhere. But what I find is a little bit on uh not great for people is there was this promise of I get in the market, get in the market, buy a home, buy a car, get in there no matter what the stakes are. And now people risked everything to get in there. And now they're like, oh, okay. You get your um your your property tax assessment, you're like, what? Maybe it's worth less. What's going on here?

SPEAKER_36 26:09

Yeah, and I think you could make more money or less risk in a in a less risky way in the stock market, right? So people are choosing to put their money there versus paying off a mortgage.

SPEAKER_15 26:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 26:19

And it's a very fair assessment when um, you know, mortgages are gonna be upwards of two million dollars, depending on on where you're choosing to live.

SPEAKER_16 26:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 26:29

Um, and all your all your investment going in each month is to interest versus actually earning interest on the on the stock market.

SPEAKER_05 26:36

Yeah, on the dollars, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 26:37

Yeah. So it's uh it's a strange time we're in.

Mentorship Through Work Life Integration

SPEAKER_05 26:41

So as you um I see there's there's a you're involved in BCIT and doing some mentoring.

SPEAKER_36 26:52

I was actually a part-time instructor. Instructor, okay.

SPEAKER_05 26:54

Do you are you doing any mentoring um further on now, or are you just staying with you're obviously busy doing it, being a business manager?

SPEAKER_36 27:01

No, I I think it's important. Uh, you know, I have an amazing mentor, uh Meat Patel, he was my my boss for 15 years.

SPEAKER_05 27:07

I had a meet on the on the uh podcast.

SPEAKER_36 27:09

Oh, did you? Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 27:10

This was like uh probably number 70.

SPEAKER_36 27:20

Oh, okay. Wow. Yeah. Um, yeah, and and I think it's it's so important to have mentorship and advocacy. So yeah, definitely part of my job is to connect with people, you know, Turner on on being their mentor. Because I I definitely wouldn't be where I am today without that mentorship. Um uh and Turner has a really great program. It's called the ICAP. So every single person is assigned a development partner who helps advocate for for them in their career, gives career coaching.

SPEAKER_05 27:49

ICAP, what does that acronym mean?

SPEAKER_36 27:51

Uh I actually don't know what ICAP stands for. We just I should I'll follow up with you.

SPEAKER_05 27:56

My daughter says that's CAP all the time. That's okay. It means it's BS.

SPEAKER_36 28:00

That's what it means. It's BS? I didn't think so. Okay. Cause we have the recap, which is like looking back on the year your performance review, and then the ICAP, which is looking forward, where do you want to go? How do we get you there?

SPEAKER_16 28:11

I see. Okay.

SPEAKER_36 28:12

Um, and so as part of your ICAP, and I will follow up with what it means.

SPEAKER_16 28:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 28:16

Um, is your assigned development partner who's essentially your your mentor, who you talk through where do you want to be in one year, three years, five years? Um how what steps in your career can you take to get there? Um, and maybe that is a you know, changing what department you're working in or even what business unit you might be located in. Um and so we really try and make sure everyone feels that that sense of mentorship within Turner.

SPEAKER_05 28:41

Do you so how many people have so you've had the uh I mean it has been your your mentor, but have you mentored others? Yes. Okay. So in that relationship, how often does like when do does the uh I always say business is personal, even though business is business. It's still humans running business. And the dovetailing of someone's personal things going on versus what's going on at work, everyone brings their personal stuff to work, just whether they show it or not. It's there. Which is either silent or it's not silent. So, you know, as you're mentoring people, how do you how do you stick in all that of people coming with their stuff?

SPEAKER_36 29:29

The the separation of of work and personal life.

SPEAKER_05 29:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 29:32

You know, I think the only reason I've been able to succeed in my career is is through full work-life integration. You're, you know, you have to be. I think for some people it works to have two separate lives, right? Your work self, your personal self.

SPEAKER_15 29:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 29:46

But I think you have to address that, you want to be yourself, right? It's I find it might be a little bit exhausting to have two separate personalities all the time.

SPEAKER_10 29:54

Right.

SPEAKER_36 29:55

So I think it's important you talk about the personal stuff in your life and and what you're going through because how can your mentor help you if they don't understand that part of you?

SPEAKER_13 30:03

Right.

SPEAKER_36 30:04

Um, so I would say, you know, when how do I stick handle it? I think you talk about it, right? Don't don't have your employees um carry that burden on their own. Yeah.

SPEAKER_30 30:13

Um yeah, that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_36 30:16

And maybe that maybe other people would say differently, but I think it's important to address it. It's also how you build connection, right?

SPEAKER_02 30:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:23

I mean, gen genuine care and compassion for what people are going through.

SPEAKER_36 30:27

Yeah. Well, we were just, you know, I was just talking to somebody about um if say your your daycare only allows you to do drop-off at 8 30.

unknown 30:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 30:36

You know, we're at construction, we have to start at seven. If that person is now having to call their, you know, mother-in-law to supervise for an hour and a half because they're not able to, they have to get to work at seven and then there's this big gap till daycare starts. I would rather they just come to us and say, Hey, I'm having this challenge. Can we change my work hours from 8 30 to 6 or whatever? Yeah. Um, right, versus just carrying that on their own, being like, oh, I have to make it work. Um, so yeah, I think just talking about it is important.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 31:09

Um

Goal Setting With Recap And ICAP

SPEAKER_05 31:12

the goal setting you guys do internally. So with that mentor program, ICAP, do you do you it's is this where the goal setting starts? Like quarterly priorities. I mean, you obviously have your company ones. Do you guys do rocks and all that stuff?

SPEAKER_36 31:29

Rocks?

SPEAKER_05 31:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 31:30

No, I don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_05 31:31

Oh, so it's like um when you do your quarterly pl uh planning and then you you have your your weekly meetings, like what what are the rocks? What are the things in the way of you being able to what are the hard things? It's it's there's lots of different terms frameworks for these, like EOS is one of them, entrepreneurial operating system, and then there's all these other ones where you fill out all this paperwork for your priorities and all that. No, you guys don't do it.

SPEAKER_36 31:55

No, well, not to that extent. But yeah, I can maybe illustrate how our program works. So we have the uh recap which goes over your performance for the year, so your performance review. Then we do the goal setting. So um the employee creates uh four goals with their manager on what they want to achieve in the next year, and then you have your ICAP after that with your with the which is a different person than your manager.

SPEAKER_09 32:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_36 32:18

Um and that's done intentionally, so you can actually have somebody who might be a couple um layers above you, so you have more context from somebody who has, you know, 30 years at Turner potentially and can give you advice on um their journey and how they can help grow your your career.

SPEAKER_03 32:36

Right.

SPEAKER_05 32:37

So it um if you have people that have been in Turner for that long, they've come from somewhere else, obviously. Because this group's only been for a while.

SPEAKER_36 32:51

Yes, that's right. Um but we don't have I don't think we have any 30 years. Actually, we have we don't have to be.

SPEAKER_05 32:55

How long has Turner been going to Vancouver for?

SPEAKER_36 32:57

In Vancouver we've been 15 years since 2011.

SPEAKER_05 33:00

Right. So you've you must have pulled some people from somewhere else.

SPEAKER_36 33:03

Yes. There's uh we have a cup one twenty-five year.

SPEAKER_04 33:07

I think that's the came from Toronto or something?

SPEAKER_36 33:09

Uh yeah, different areas. Um yeah. So we have we have people from all over. We're primarily, I would say, 90, maybe 95% of our staff is is local. Okay. But yeah, we do have people who've come from Philadelphia, Seattle, um, yeah, Toronto, all over.

SPEAKER_05 33:25

So right now, I mean, is with all of this headcount, uh, sorry, this uh the economy right now is is headcount the same or is it lower? Or like do you guys oscillate through when you're busy and stuff like that? Do you have a yeah?

SPEAKER_36 33:37

So we've been on a a straight growth trajectory since we started here. So um, yeah, it's been growing continuously ever since um 2011. Um so yeah, I think this year we've grown in the last year, we've actually grown 20% in headcount.

Hiring Growth And Active Project Mix

SPEAKER_05 33:53

Wow. That's a lot.

SPEAKER_36 33:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:55

It's a so you guys are just still crammed busy.

SPEAKER_36 33:57

Busy, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:00

So what is the what is the primarily the projects? What's like what's the blend? What stuff's hot right now that you guys are doing?

SPEAKER_36 34:05

Yeah. So we're working on a number of different projects. We're doing a um K-12 school out in Langley. Um, so it's one middle school and one high school on the same campus. Um, so that so yeah, education is is still going quite strong. Um we're doing a number of um, we're just finishing up a renal dialysis center in uh Fursuri Memorial Hospital. It's opening next month. So we're racing to the finish line on that one. That's healthcare. Um, as I mentioned, we have our special projects division, which is you know a collection of 10 to 20 projects um ranging from um a one-floor tenant improvement up to uh building a uh mass timber building extension um for the University of Fraser Valley. So yeah, it's just I do think um ICI is is still pretty strong. Um, we'll see now with the the new provincial government budget and if that continues. Um but yeah, it's it's it's all over the place, honestly. Like even municipalities, I I'll give you an example. My understanding is the city of Vancouver is is cutting uh development cost charges, uh, but at the expense of having to cancel some of their amenity projects. So I wonder, you know, those are projects that would probably have been greenlit in the next like year, two years. So there's always a delay with these decisions, and then how does it affect the market after? So, you know, we're watching to see um how that affects the market.

SPEAKER_05 35:32

Yeah.

Developers Versus Government Delivery Speed

SPEAKER_05 35:33

Well, I mean, with city of Vancouver specifically, with all these property assessments that are less, they're gonna be collecting less taxes because the rate didn't go up.

SPEAKER_36 35:40

Yes. I'm actually wondering to see how that influences the election coming up.

SPEAKER_05 35:45

Yeah. That's it, it was interesting. I um at our office I saw uh Carolyn Finlay the other day.

SPEAKER_11 35:53

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 35:54

Yeah, I was because we have this on the 28th floor of the building. We have this um uh sort of common area, it's kind of like a we work.

SPEAKER_33 36:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 36:04

So that's a oh you've been in there, right? On the twin.

SPEAKER_33 36:08

Oh uh yes, yes. Oh, it's beautiful. Yes.

SPEAKER_05 36:10

Yeah, exactly. So I was up there on those couches and then out of the boardroom, she walks, I think, with her handler or like PR person or something. And that was it.

SPEAKER_38 36:21

And did you say hi? I did.

SPEAKER_05 36:23

I went, hi. And she went, hello, kept walking. And I say, good luck. She's like, thanks. And then I see her on TV. I'm like, hey, she's actually pretty personal.

SPEAKER_31 36:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 36:36

Could have fooled me though. Maybe, maybe it's like caught her in a bad moment. I think I must have. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.

SPEAKER_31 36:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 36:42

But uh yeah, no, I think you're right. Leadership-wise, it's gonna be it's gonna be kind of interesting. We definitely need be need to be pro-business here.

SPEAKER_36 36:49

Yeah, I I don't disagree. It's it helps lift the industry the whole city up.

SPEAKER_05 36:54

Yeah. Yeah. I think um, you know, it it's it just seems that there's from the I've been sort of following how um, you know, on the developer side, the developers are it's so weird. They just get painted with such a negative brush. And I think that they made the city.

SPEAKER_36 37:15

It's no, it's true.

SPEAKER_05 37:17

And it's not fair. I mean, and all developers have to make money. Otherwise, why are they doing it?

SPEAKER_36 37:22

And well, they're villainized for it now, right? And I listen to the Vancouver Real Estate podcast a lot, and they have some great guests from the from the real estate market, and they've had, you know, the president of West Build and a number of different others. And yeah, I feel for developers, because what is you know, when we look at what the alternative is, is okay, the government builds and develops, is becomes a developer, right? Do you think they're gonna be more cost efficient than a develop a private developer who's done this many times and you know is monitoring the bottom line very closely? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_05 37:56

Um Well, like I I have I have a live example of that.

SPEAKER_36 37:59

Okay, let me hear it.

SPEAKER_05 38:00

And I think I've said it in the last three podcasts, but I'm gonna say it a fourth time. So I watched this school that is being built at uh Jervis and Hastings.

SPEAKER_29 38:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 38:13

Over in Coal Harbor, Coal Harbor Park there. And over I can also see over on Georgia Street the 1515 Boza building that's going up. They are the school's not even finished. And the Boza building started way after, and I've watched them, and the school is like nine stories, and this thing is already like 40. And it shows public sector, private sector, speed.

SPEAKER_35 38:44

Stark contrast.

SPEAKER_05 38:45

It's huge, it's massive. And the amount of detail, I mean, this the because it's I think it's it's part um uh subsidized housing, yeah, and then and then school. But man, it's beautiful. Good design, really good design.

SPEAKER_36 39:02

Fift 1515 on West Georgia, right?

SPEAKER_05 39:05

Yes, yes, yeah, that's the Boza building in Kingswood Capitol is doing as well. Um, but um, but yeah, stark difference of speed. And something I saw yesterday, I could not believe it. So we're getting into the weeds here, but it's but it's kind of interesting because you seem kind of cool, so I'll have to say it anyway. Um they're on the civil side. So I guess the uh city of Vancouver comes and does the curb of the the because they put have this median where they had to move a light standard and have to move it. And then they had to do some kind of civil laying down some kind of pipe or infrastructure underneath, and they chipped apart what they'd made. I'm like, was somewhere like, oh, I I guess we should have maybe should have done this first. It was weird.

SPEAKER_36 39:56

Yeah. So are you sorry? Are you saying the existing pipe was chipped away or the new pipe that they put in? No, no, they decided to chip it away.

SPEAKER_05 40:02

They built the the rim of concrete for the entire median. Okay, and then they were gonna infill it with grass or whatever. So it's basically, you know, you it's um it's basically the concrete curb.

SPEAKER_25 40:15

Yes, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 40:16

So the concrete curb perimeter was already formed, done. It's been there for months.

SPEAKER_36 40:22

And then Oh no, when they were putting the pipe in, they chipped the the curb. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_05 40:27

No, they came and backhoed half of it away.

SPEAKER_36 40:29

Oh my God.

unknown 40:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 40:31

And I thought, well, what did that cost? I mean, that's a change order with in all capitals.

SPEAKER_31 40:37

It's true.

SPEAKER_05 40:38

And I thought, oh my God, like it's I mean I also like the term change order in all capitals.

SPEAKER_36 40:43

I'm gonna use that. You know, there was just a little bit of pre-planning could have avoided that.

SPEAKER_43 40:49

Just a pinch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 40:51

So but I was just so inefficient, you know. I uh but it comes down to I just I think we've created sometimes where we silo everything to the point that it doesn't make sense. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_44 41:03

Um Do you think AI is gonna fix this stuff?

Can AI Reduce Construction Friction

SPEAKER_36 41:07

I you know, I I think maybe one day, I think it might take a while. We gotta try. It's gotta be better than what we're doing right now.

SPEAKER_14 41:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 41:14

Um Yeah, I I wonder too, it sometimes is it um, you know, I think about how the provincial government has hired a significant amount of public sector staff too. And when we hire more people, does that make the jobs be built more efficient? Or do we create actually more barriers because there's so many layers to go through now? I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 41:37

That's a that's a good question. Um I always wanna when I see a this school, for instance, there's quite a bit of design there in terms of style. And there's also um I think on the on the third floor, there's this sort of patio thing where they've got sandboxes for like a kid's you know, sort of um play area. And they've got these kind of cool red tarps that cover, so I guess the sand doesn't get wet. That's what from my binoculars is what I could see. Um but I thought, whose passion project is this? It's always like uh I can understand then in, you know, if you're thinking of West Bank and you know, Ian Gillespie wants uh a tower that twists in the air. I get it. That's his passion. It's what he wants to do. But who did who's on the pri on the public sector? Who's like who's who's oh God, I I can't wait. The design of this school was my passion. Yeah, but did we ask for this design? And I know it should be cool, but the question is it's back to what you're saying, is you get so many layers. It's like, well, someone now is responsible for design. So now it has to be over design because now it's someone's responsibility to deliver on why they're hired. So it kind of gets weird.

SPEAKER_36 42:59

Yeah. You know, it's it's hard. I think it's such a fine line. We because I do really believe you want to spend money on improving the city and and making it beautiful. And I think it's that's really important. Um, but the other line or the line is you have to do it responsibly as well. And, you know, I I think even if we I don't think we'll ever know the perfect answer, right? And every project is different. Um I think when you look at successful projects, they have a lot of things in common, a lot of people working towards uh uh the same shared vision. It's important to set those expectations from the beginning. Um but um you can see why sometimes they they go off the rails a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 43:45

Yeah. No, I can see that. I mean we've got um but I I definitely do agree with you that when you do have what's gonna speed things up and what's gonna slow things down, definitely if you have more people, it doesn't necessarily Speed things up.

SPEAKER_36 44:01

No. But on the other side, maybe sometimes things need to be slowed down. And I'm playing devil's advocate here because as a contractor, we like to move as fast as possible. You know, we're very schedule driven, need to get the job done some on time. And so we're always motivated to try and get quick answers. But I do sometimes think you need people to just slow you down and say, hey, have we talked to all the key stakeholders? And how does it affect everyone? And it's important to have that, but just the, you know, what's the balance of the right amount of of stakeholders and and uh feedback?

SPEAKER_05 44:35

Like, yeah, feedback, my favorite word. I love the feedback. I actually do think that AI is gonna help quite a bit. Um, I mean, we've seen we're we're releasing our cloud connection to SiteMax right now, and it's incredible. I can't believe how good it is.

SPEAKER_36 44:50

So what are you seeing? Well, it's just like how can you give me an example of how it's improved?

SPEAKER_05 44:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 44:58

So the the engineering process, for example, like how you write an RFI.

SPEAKER_05 45:02

Well, it's not how you write it. It's the it's it's in the details of the stuff that you can't get. You can't get a detailed report a certain way, let's say, in a visual dashboard. Let's say you'd have to go to your software provider and say, Do you have a view for this? And they'd say, No, we don't. It doesn't do that. Well, with Cloud, you can make it do anything. Because it has these artifacts that allow you to see these crazy dashboards based on data that's in the platform. So for instance, like in our RFI platform, you can uh obviously you have all the RFIs for your project. But we can do now, I can do a view that is all RFIs from all active projects from one vendor. Boom, there they all are. And now calculate for me the average time or response time. Can calculate that. Can't do that before.

SPEAKER_36 46:00

Yeah. And all you have to do is actually type it in the chat asking for it, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 46:04

And you say make a chart for me. Yeah. And it makes the chart, and then you save as an artifact and then you reload it whenever you want.

SPEAKER_36 46:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:10

This is why it's amazing. But it's beautifully done.

SPEAKER_36 46:13

But do you not think it's up to the user to understand how to use it? Because I I we we we're in an industry where it's like we've always done it this way. So it's hard for us to be creative sometimes and understand the the power of of what AI can do.

SPEAKER_05 46:27

But you don't have to be. This is the whole cool thing, is because what we do is we at our office, we are curious there. We're like, what can we do with this? We create an amazing dashboard for this that RFI thing I was telling you about. And then we save that as an MD file. And then all of our customers can now have it. And they they they select the MD file and it's in theirs now, uh attached to their instance.

SPEAKER_32 46:54

Yeah, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:56

So we just keep making these cool things on a library of all of these things.

SPEAKER_36 47:00

So you don't envision your end customer actually creating these dashboards and stuff on their own for reason. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 47:05

They can, but we're gonna give them some amazing stuff to they can try whatever. Well, like they have the same power we do. Yeah. But we're just hyper curious about it. So yeah, I think it's it's gonna be and then and that's only reading function, just we're doing a write function as well.

SPEAKER_11 47:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 47:21

So if you don't like the way our app works, you use Claude and you can put stuff into SiteMacks. Yeah, so so cool. So yeah, very, very cool. But I don't want to talk about you know, it's a bit self-aggrandizing, but um so what's next? Like, what do

Leveling Up With IPD And PDB

SPEAKER_05 47:36

you are you gonna be like uh CEO next? Like, where are we going here? Just kidding. But um, yeah, what do you see, what do you see on the horizon? Like, what are you excited about?

SPEAKER_36 47:45

You know, I just want to get great at what I'm doing right now. Yeah. So for me, I think it's um continuously learning on how we can be better builders, yeah. Um, how we can provide better value for our clients. Um yeah, so I'm I'm really focusing on just elevating or we we call it like leveling up how we operate. And and that includes also doing different contract types. Um, you know, traditionally we've done majority uh construction management, but we've you know, we're doing a lot of in IPD jobs now, um, progressive design build. Um, the industry's changing and the type of contracts that you know are being used are changing too. And and we want to make sure that we're we become the expert in in all various, you know, shapes and forms. Um, but you know, getting really back to if we can't execute, then you know, what are we doing? So I think just becoming amazing builders is uh my biggest focus.

SPEAKER_05 48:42

Right on. Well, um I've enjoyed my time chatting with you. Yes, thank you so much for that. This has been super awesome. Um, I wish you the best of luck in your new role. Appreciate that. Yeah. And you're 14 months? Yes. Is it boy or girl? It's a boy. Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_37 48:57

He loves basketball. Uh his name's Brooks.

SPEAKER_05 48:59

Brooks? Ah. Yeah. Nice. That's a great name.

SPEAKER_37 49:03

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 49:03

Yeah, cool. Okay, well, thank you very much, and uh hopefully I see you again. Sounds good. Okay, right on. Thank you. Okay.

SPEAKER_36 49:13

My gosh,

Replay On Leading With Empathy

SPEAKER_36 49:14

that's so disorienting.

SPEAKER_05 49:18

I always say business is personal, even though business is business. It's still humans running business. And the dovetailing of someone's personal things going on versus what's going on at work, everyone brings their personal stuff to work. So just whether they show it or not, it's there. Which is either silent or it's not silent. So, you know, as you're mentoring people, how do you how do you stick handle that of people coming with their stuff?

SPEAKER_36 49:45

The the separation of of work and personal life.

SPEAKER_05 49:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 49:48

You know, I think the only reason I've been able to succeed in my career is is through full work-life integration. You're, you know, you have to be. I think for some people it works to have two two separate lives, right? Your work self, your personal self.

SPEAKER_15 50:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 50:02

But I think you have to address that you want to be yourself, right? It's I find it might be a little bit exhausting to have two separate personalities all the time.

SPEAKER_10 50:10

Right.

SPEAKER_36 50:11

So I think it's important you talk about the personal stuff in your life and and what you're going through because how can your mentor help you if they don't understand that part of you?

SPEAKER_13 50:19

Right.

SPEAKER_36 50:20

Um, so I would say, you know, and how do I stick handle it? I think you talk about it, right? Don't don't have your employees um carry that burden on their own. Yeah.

SPEAKER_30 50:29

Um yeah, that's what I would say.

SPEAKER_36 50:32

And maybe that maybe other people would say differently, but I think it's important to address it. It's also how you build connection, right?

SPEAKER_05 50:38

Yeah. I mean, gen genuine care and compassion for what people are going through.

SPEAKER_36 50:43

Yeah. Well, we're just, you know, I was just talking to somebody about um if say your your daycare only allows you to do drop off at 8 30.

unknown 50:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 50:52

You know, we're at construction, we have to start at seven. If that person is now having to call their, you know, mother-in-law to supervise for an hour and a half because they're not able to, they have to get to work at seven and then there's this big gap till daycare starts. I would rather they just come to us and say, Hey, I'm having this challenge. Can we change my work hours from 8 30 to 6 or whatever? Yeah. Um, right, versus just carrying that on their own, being like, oh, I have to make it work. Um, so yeah, I think just talking about it is important.

SPEAKER_02 51:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:25

Um the goal setting you guys do internally. So with that mentor program, ICAP, do you do you it's is this where the goal setting starts? Like quarterly priorities? I mean, you obviously have your company ones. Do you guys do rocks and all that stuff?

SPEAKER_36 51:45

Rocks?

SPEAKER_05 51:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 51:46

No, I don't know what that is.

SPEAKER_05 51:47

Oh, so it's like um when you do your quarterly pl uh planning and then you you have your your weekly meetings, like what what are the rocks? What are the things in the way of you being able to what are the hard things? It's it's there's lots of different terms frameworks for these, like EOS is one of them, entrepreneurial operating system, and then there's all these other ones where you fill out all this paperwork for your priorities and all that, no? You guys don't do it.

SPEAKER_36 52:11

No, well, not to that extent. But yeah, I can maybe illustrate how our program works. So we have the uh recap which goes over your performance for the year, so your performance review. Then we do the goal setting. So um the employee creates uh four goals with their manager on what they want to achieve in the next year, and then you have your ICAP after that with your with the which is a different person than your manager.

SPEAKER_09 52:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_36 52:33

Um and that's done intentionally, so you can actually have somebody who might be a couple um layers above you. So you have more context from somebody who has, you know, 30 years at Turner potentially and can give you advice on um their journey and how they can help grow your your career.

SPEAKER_03 52:52

Right.

SPEAKER_05 52:53

So um if you have people that have been in Turner for that long, they've come from somewhere else, obviously, because this group's only been for a while.

SPEAKER_36 53:06

Yes, that's right. Um but we don't have I don't think we have any 30 year actually.

SPEAKER_05 53:11

How long has Turner been going to Vancouver for?

SPEAKER_36 53:13

In Vancouver we've been 15 years since 2011. Right.

SPEAKER_05 53:16

So you've you must have pulled some people from somewhere else.

SPEAKER_36 53:18

Yes. There's we have a cup one twenty five year.

SPEAKER_04 53:22

I think that's the that came from Toronto or something?

SPEAKER_36 53:25

Uh yeah, different areas. Um yeah. So we have we have people from all over. We're primarily, I would say, 90, maybe 95% of our staff is is local. Okay. But yeah, we do have people who've come from Philadelphia, Seattle, um, yeah, Toronto, all over.

SPEAKER_05 53:41

So right now, I mean, is with all of this headcount, uh, sorry, this uh the economy right now is is headcount the same or is it lower? Or like do you guys oscillate through when you're busy and stuff like that? Do you have a yeah?

SPEAKER_36 53:53

So we've been on a straight growth trajectory since we started here. So um yeah, it's been growing continuously ever since um 2011. Um so yeah, I think this year we've grown in the last year, we've actually grown 20% in headcount.

SPEAKER_05 54:09

Wow. That's a lot.

SPEAKER_36 54:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:10

It's a so you guys are just still crammed busy.

SPEAKER_36 54:13

Busy, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:16

So what is the what are the primarily the projects? What's like what's the blend? What stuff's hot right now that you guys are doing?

SPEAKER_36 54:21

Yeah, so we're working on a number of different projects. We're doing a um K-12 school out in Langley. Um so it's one middle school and one high school on the same campus. Um, so that so yeah, education is is still going quite strong. Um, we're doing a number of um, we're just finishing up a renal dialysis center in uh for Surrey Memorial Hospital. It's opening next month. So we're racing to the finish line on that one. That's healthcare. Um, as I mentioned, we have our special projects division, which is you know, a collection of 10 to 20 projects um ranging from um a one-floor tenant improvement up to uh building a uh mass timber building extension um for the University of Fraser Valley. So yeah, it's just I do think um ICI is is still pretty strong. Um, we'll see now with the the new provincial government budget and if that continues. Um but yeah, it's it's it's all over the place, honestly. Like even municipalities, I I'll give you an example. My understanding is the city of Vancouver is is cutting uh development cost charges, uh, but at the expense of having to cancel some of their amenity projects. So I wonder, you know, those are projects that would probably have been greenlit in the next like year, two years. So there's always a delay with these decisions, and then how does it affect the market after? So, you know, we're watching to see um how that affects the market.

SPEAKER_05 55:48

Yeah. Well, I mean, with City of Vancouver specifically, with all these property assessments or less, they're gonna be collecting less taxes because the rate didn't go up.

SPEAKER_36 55:56

Yes. I'm actually wondering to see how that influences the election coming up.

SPEAKER_05 56:00

Yeah. That's it was interesting. I um at our office I saw uh Carolyn Finley the other day.

SPEAKER_11 56:09

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 56:09

Yeah, I was because we have this on the 28th floor of the building, we have this um uh sort of common area. It's kind of like a wee work.

SPEAKER_33 56:20

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 56:20

So that should oh you've been in there, right? On the toy.

SPEAKER_33 56:23

Oh, uh yes, yes. Oh, it's beautiful. Humenity space, yes.

SPEAKER_05 56:26

Yeah, exactly. So I was up there on those couches and then out of the boardroom, she walks, I think, with her handler or like PR person or something. And that was it.

SPEAKER_38 56:36

And did you say hi? I did.

SPEAKER_05 56:38

I went, hi. And she went, hello. Kept walking. And I said, good luck. She's like, thanks. And then I see her on TV. I'm like, hey, she's actually pretty personable.

SPEAKER_31 56:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 56:52

Could have fooled me though. Maybe, maybe it's we caught her in a bad moment. I think I must have. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt.

SPEAKER_31 56:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_05 56:58

But uh yeah, no, I think you're right. Leadership wise, it's gonna be it's gonna be kind of interesting. We definitely need to be need to be pro-business here.

SPEAKER_36 57:05

Yeah, I I don't disagree. It's it helps lift the industry the whole city up.

SPEAKER_05 57:10

Yeah. Yeah. I think um, you know, it it's it just seems that there's from the I've been sort of following how um, you know, on the developer side, the developers are it's so weird. They just get painted with such a negative brush. And I think that they made this city.

SPEAKER_36 57:31

It's no, it's true.

SPEAKER_05 57:32

And it's not fair. I mean, and all developers have to make money. Otherwise, why are they doing it?

SPEAKER_36 57:37

And well, they're villainized for it now, right? And I listen to the Vancouver Real Estate podcast a lot. And they have some great guests from the from the real estate market, and they've had, you know, the president of West Build and a number of different others. And yeah, I feel for developers, because what is you know, when we look at what the alternative is, is okay, the government builds and develops, is becomes a developer, right? Do you think they're gonna be more cost efficient than a develop a private developer who's done this many times and you know is monitoring the bottom line very closely? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_05 58:11

Um, like I I have I have a live example of that.

SPEAKER_36 58:15

Okay, let me hear it.

SPEAKER_05 58:16

And I think I've said it in the last three podcasts, but I'm gonna say it a fourth time. So I watched this school that is being built at uh Jervis and Hastings.

SPEAKER_29 58:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 58:29

Over in Cole Harbor, Cole Harbor Park there. And over we can also see over on Georgia Street the 1515 Boza building that's going up. They are the school's not even finished. And the Boza building started way after, and I've watched them, and the school is like nine stories, and this thing is already like 40. And it shows public sector, private sector speed.

SPEAKER_35 58:59

Stark contrast.

SPEAKER_05 59:01

It's huge, it's massive. And the amount of detail, I mean, this the because it's I think it's it's part um uh subsidized housing, yeah, and then and then school. But man, it's beautiful. Good design. Really good design.

SPEAKER_36 59:18

Fift 1515 on West Georgia, right?

SPEAKER_05 59:21

Yes, yes, yeah, that's the Bosa building in Kingswood Capitol is doing as well. Um, but um, but yeah, stark difference of speed. And something I saw yesterday, I could not believe it. So we're getting into the weeds here, but it's but it's kind of interesting because you seem kind of cool, so I'll have to say it anyway. Um they're on the civil side. So I guess the uh city of Vancouver comes and does the curb of the the because they put have this median where they had to move a light standard and had to move it. And then they had to do some kind of civil laying down some kind of pipe or infrastructure underneath, and they chipped apart what they'd made. I'm like, was someone like, oh, I I guess we should have maybe should have done this first. It was weird.

SPEAKER_36 1:00:12

Yeah. So are you sorry? Or the new pipe that they put in they decided to chip it away?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:18

They built the the rim of concrete for the entire median. Okay, and then they were gonna infill it with grass or whatever. So it's basically, you know, you it's um it's basically the concrete curb.

SPEAKER_25 1:00:31

Yes, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:32

So the concrete curb perimeter was already formed, done. It's been there for months.

SPEAKER_36 1:00:38

And then Oh no, when they were putting the pipe in, they chipped the the curb. Is that what you're saying?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:43

No, they came and backhoed half of it away.

SPEAKER_36 1:00:45

Oh my god.

unknown 1:00:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:47

And I thought, well, what did that cost? I mean, it's a change order with in all capitals.

SPEAKER_31 1:00:53

It's true.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:54

And I thought, oh my God, like it's I mean, I also like the term change order in all capitals.

SPEAKER_36 1:00:59

I'm gonna use you know, there's just a little bit of pre-planning could have avoided that.

SPEAKER_43 1:01:05

Just a pinch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 1:01:07

So but so inefficient, you know. I but it comes down to I just I think we've created sometimes where we silo everything to the point that it doesn't make sense. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_44 1:01:19

Um Do you think AI is gonna fix this stuff?

SPEAKER_36 1:01:23

I you know, I I think maybe one day, I think it might take a while. We gotta try. It's gotta be better than what we're doing right now.

SPEAKER_14 1:01:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 1:01:30

Um Yeah, I I wonder too, it's sometimes is it um, you know, I think about how the provincial government has hired a significant amount of public sector staff too. And when we hire more people, does that make the jobs be built more efficient? Or do we create actually more barriers because there's so many layers to go through now? I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:52

That's a that's a good question. Um I always wanna when I see a this school, for instance, there's quite a bit of design there in terms of style. And there's also um I think on the on the third floor, there's this sort of patio thing where they've got sandboxes for like a kid's you know, sort of um play area. And they've got these kind of cool red tarps that cover, so I guess the sand doesn't get wet. That's what from my binoculars is what I could see. Um But I thought, whose passion project is this? It's always like uh I can understand then in, you know, if you think you have West Bank and you know, Ian Gillespie wants uh a tower that twists in the air. I get it. That's his passion. That's what he wants to do. But who did who's on the pri on the public sector? Who's like who's who's oh God, I I can't wait. The design of this school was my passion. Yeah, but did we ask for this design? And I know it should be cool, but the question is back to what you're saying, is you get so many layers. It's like, well, someone now is responsible for design. So now it has to be over designed because now it's someone's responsibility to deliver on why they were hired. So it kind of gets weird.

SPEAKER_36 1:03:15

Yeah. You know, it's it's hard. I think it's such a fine line. We because I do really believe you want to spend money on improving the city and and making it beautiful. And I think it's that's really important. Um, but the other line or the line is you have to do it responsibly as well. And you know, I I think even if we I don't think we'll ever know the perfect answer, right? And every project is different. Um I think when you look at successful projects, they have a lot of things in common, a lot of people working towards uh the same shared vision. It's important to set those expectations from the beginning. Um but um you can see why sometimes they they go off the rails a little bit.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:01

Yeah. No, I can see that. I mean, we've got um, but I I definitely do agree with you that when you do have what's gonna speed things up and what's gonna slow things down, definitely if you have more people, it doesn't necessarily speed things up.

SPEAKER_36 1:04:17

No, but but on the other side, maybe sometimes things need to be slowed down. And I'm playing devil's advocate here because as a contractor, we like to move as fast as possible. You know, we're very schedule driven, need to get the job done some on time. And so we're always motivated to try and get quick answers. But I do sometimes think you need people to slow you down and say, hey, have we talked to all the key stakeholders? And how does it affect everyone? And and it's important to have that, but just the, you know, what's the balance of the right amount of of of stakeholders and and uh feedback?

SPEAKER_05 1:04:51

Like, yeah, feedback, my favorite word. I love the feedback. I actually do think that AI is gonna help quite a bit. Um, I mean, we've seen we're we're releasing our cloud connection to SiteMax right now, and it's incredible. I can't believe how good it is.

SPEAKER_36 1:05:06

So what are you seeing? Well, it's just like how can you give me an example of how it's improved?

SPEAKER_05 1:05:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_36 1:05:13

So the the engineering process, for example, like how you write an RFI.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:18

Well, it's not how you write it. It's the it's it's in the details of the stuff that you can't get. You can't get a detailed report a certain way, let's say, in a visual dashboard. Let's say you'd have to go to your software provider and say, Do you have a view for this? And they'd say, No, we don't. It doesn't do that. Well, with Cloud, you can make it do anything. Because it has these artifacts that allow you to see these crazy dashboards based on data that's in the platform. So for instance, like in our RFI platform, you can uh obviously you have all the RFIs for your project. But we can do now I can do a view that is all RFIs from all active projects from one vendor. Boom. There they all are. And now calculate for me the average time or response time. Can calculate that. Can't do that before.

SPEAKER_36 1:06:16

Yeah. And all you have to do is actually type it in the chat asking for it, I guess.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:20

And you say make a chart for me. Yeah. And it makes the chart. And then you save as an artifact and you reload it whenever you want.

SPEAKER_36 1:06:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:26

This is why it's amazing. And it's beautifully done.

SPEAKER_36 1:06:29

But do you not think it's up to the user to understand how to use it? Because I I we we we're in an industry where it's like we've always done it this way. So it's hard for us to be creative sometimes and understand the the power of of what AI can do.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:42

But you don't have to be. This is the whole cool thing. Is because what we do is we at our office, we are curious there. We're like, what can we do with this? We create an amazing dashboard for this that RFI thing I was telling you about. And then we save that as an MD file. And then all of our customers can now have it. And they they they select the MD file and it's in theirs now. Attached to their instance.

SPEAKER_32 1:07:10

Yeah, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:12

So we just keep making these cool things on a library of all of these things.

SPEAKER_36 1:07:16

So you don't envision your end customer actually creating these dashboards and stuff on their own.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:20

They can, but we're gonna give them some amazing stuff to they can try whatever they want. Like they have the same power we do.

SPEAKER_33 1:07:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:27

But we're just hyper curious about it. So yeah, I think it's it's gonna be and then and that's only reading function, just we're doing a write function as well.

SPEAKER_11 1:07:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:37

So if you don't like the way our app works, you use Claude and you can put stuff into SiteMacks. So so cool. So yeah, very, very cool. But I don't want to talk about you know it's a bit self-aggrandizing, but um so what's next? Like, what do you are you gonna be like uh CEO next? Like, where are we going here? Just kidding. But um, yeah, what do you see, what do you see on the horizon? Like, what are you excited about?

SPEAKER_36 1:08:01

You know, I just want to get great at what I'm doing right now. Yeah, so for me, I think it's um continuously learning on how we can be better builders, yeah. Um, how we can provide better value for our clients. Um Yeah, so I I'm really focusing on just elevating or we we call it like leveling up how we operate. And and that includes also doing different contract types. Um, you know, traditionally we've done majority uh construction management, but we've you know we're doing a lot of in IPD jobs now, um progressive design build. Um the industry's changing and the type of contracts that you know are being used are changing too. And and we want to make sure that we re become the expert in in all various you know, shapes and forms. Um, but you know, getting really back to if we can't execute, then you know, what are we doing? So I think just becoming amazing builders is uh my biggest focus.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:58

Right on. Well, um I've enjoyed my time chatting with you. Yes, thank you so much. This has just been super awesome. Um I wish you the best of luck in your new role. Appreciate that. Yeah. And your 14 months? Yes. Is it a boy or a girl? It's a boy. Oh, nice.

SPEAKER_37 1:09:13

He loves basketball. Uh his name's Brooks.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:15

Brooks? Ah. Yeah. Nice. That's a great name.

SPEAKER_37 1:09:18

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:19

Yeah, cool. Okay, well, thank you very much, and uh hopefully see you again. Sounds good. Okay, right on. Thank you. Okay. Well,

Closing And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_05 1:09:34

that does it for another episode of the Site Visit. Thank you for listening. Be sure to stay connected with us by following our social accounts on Instagram and YouTube. You can also sign up for a monthly newsletter at SiteMaxSystems.com slash The Site Visit, where you'll get industry insights, pro tips, and everything you need to know about the Site Visit Podcast and Site Visit, the job site and construction management tool of choice for thousands of contractors in North America and beyond. Sitemax is also the engine that powers this podcast. All right, let's get back to building.