BONUS | Matt Erickson on Books and Preaching

A short bonus episode where CPT fellow Matt Erickson shares two formative books for his ministry—Eugene Peterson’s Working the Angles and Tim Keller’s Preaching—highlighting how they shape his approach to prayer, Scripture, pastoral care, and effective preaching.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Folks who are regular listeners to the podcast will perhaps have listened to our most recent episode with Matt Erickson, uh getting to know him and his uh ministry and life story, as well as talking to him about a recent book project that he had come coming out. Uh, but we actually um still have Matt here with us and we are going to tack on a little bonus conversation as well. And our hope is to hear from pastors and guests and folks that we have on the podcast specifically about books that have been formative in their ministry, uh perhaps with specific emphasis on preaching when we uh can make those connections. So, Matt, thanks for coming back for this uh bonus episode. And um over to you. We'd love to hear uh, you know, I sent over the prompt and said we'd love to hear about this. What are uh a book or maybe a couple books that come to mind um that have been influential on you and your in your ministry and preaching?

SPEAKER_00 1:07

Thank you so much, Zach and Joel. It's great to be with you guys for this special uh extra vignette uh for CPT. Um I I have, you know, probably every pastor has so many books that come to your mind, it's hard to pick one. So I did pick two for today. Uh one is Eugene Peterson's working the angles. Peterson is one of my heroes in pastoral ministry. And uh in that book, if people are familiar with it, he explores three angles that he views as kind of the hidden and important work, uh, the way that we relate to prayer, the life of prayer, the life of uh with scripture, and then what he calls spiritual direction, which some may call pastoral counseling based on how he talks about it there. This book was recommended to me when I was in seminary by a pastor and mentor of mine who was reading through uh a collection of books that are that are known as Eugene Peterson's Pastoral Library, uh, like under the Unpredictable Plant, Contemplative Pastor. But working the angles has been one that for me has just continued to speak to me since that time. Um what I love about Peterson's work within this book is that he explores how we as pastors live out our life of prayer, our life with scripture, and uh the way that we both experience uh pastoral counsel or spiritual direction and the way that we bring that to others. What I find helpful about it is Peterson boils so much down to a very um short three elements, and that's helped me keep focus in the midst of my pastoral ministry life and specifically related to preaching, the way that he engages with scripture is always so creative. Um Peterson just has got an imagination that I feel like is on fire, the way that he can read the Bible and make it come alive. So this book has just been like gold to me. And when we work with our own folks who are ministry residents at our church or people who are preparing for ordained ministry, for me, this is kind of required reading for them. And I know it doesn't always speak to everybody else as much as it does to me, but it's been a great source of good conversation in that in that process for us too.

SPEAKER_02 3:23

Yeah, thanks for sharing all that, Matt. I am not familiar with this book in particular, so I'm loving hearing about it. The I I I also am struck by the kind of boiling it down to three categories, and this is the work of the pastor. And I think, you know, so many, if you were to say kind of what's the job description of a pastor, might say the ministry of the word, and that is kind of the thing. But and then maybe also something like counseling and direction, like you're there for these moments uh to give people wisdom and be with them, you know, marriages, births, and illness and and death and those types of things. But I also love that prayer kind of rises up to the top as one of the big three in this in this um taxonomy. And it it connects to, I mean, Paul so often tells his congregations that he's praying for them constantly.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:21

And he's like, every time I think about you, I'm remembering you in my prayers. And it um connects to what we were talking about on the previous episode as well. This sense that there's we we can't make it rain. The pastor is gardener. You there's a dependence on God for the growth and for the fruitfulness that I think prayer is a really helpful um kind of impulse and reminder that the pastor needs to be constant in that discipline. Joel, you wanted to jump in with that.

Joel Lawrence 4:50

Yeah, I I would just add an appreciation for the word you said about Peterson's imaginative approach to scripture. I think that's so in important and um I his his commentary on on revelation, reverse thunder, I think is the it's the best that there is because he matches his imaginative approach matches what the what revelation is is doing and I think brings so much richness to that. And um and so I I when when when we are asked sometimes who's kind of a a model pastor theologian, Eugene Peterson is is usually the first one that comes out of my mind.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

And I think it's uh, you know, he's almost from an earlier generation now, so there's some folks who are not quite as familiar with some of his writing. Yeah, reverse thunder is so good, a long obedience in the same direction on the Psalms of Ascent is is beautiful, but I I'm not always sure if people know about his pastoral works. Yeah. And there's just a depth of honesty in them under the unpredictable plant, is very honest about the challenges of ministry and working the angles for me. Yeah, just like you guys are both saying, it kind of brings it back to some of the essence. And uh Peterson says at one point, I don't, I don't know if it's in this book or or not, that he had someone one time ask him when she was in the hospital if if he would do something that she felt like a pastor should do, and he was expecting, you know, like give a message or all these things, and she said, Would you teach me how to pray? Oh wow, that became defining for him and how he thought about his ministry. Yeah. And um that there's a richness in this book for that. Beautiful.

Joel Lawrence 6:33

So take us now into a preaching, particular preaching resource that has impacted you.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah, it is uh hard for me not to talk about Tim Keller's book, Preaching. It is a modern-day classic, I think. Uh very short and concise. Again, Keller in that book, coming out of a wealth of a preaching ministry that so many people would acknowledge. Uh, he he outlines in some helpful ways how we think about what's happening in preaching in that book. So he I feel like he does a good job of bringing theology together with practice. Again, this is a book that I have anybody who's on my preaching team read. And some of our newer preachers, I will tell them the book is worth the cost for the appendix, which I don't often say, but it's in the appendix in the footnotes that Keller talks about his own process for how he would approach a text and just kind of lays it out. Um, and we'll just spend time talking about that because in itself, the sort of end notes appendix part of the book, it's just just so good. And so if I had only one book that I could pick to work on preaching, there's some, you know, John Stott's book is amazing. Um, so many others are amazing. We could talk about great preachers, but uh I just find that this book by Keller is just succinct and clear and really speaks to our own day and time in a way that's powerful.

Joel Lawrence 7:57

It's great. Well, well, thanks, Matt, for sharing those resources and how they have impacted you. And uh again, thanks for the the conversation we had on the on the main podcast. And and uh look forward, just give a plug on this one, just in case anyone listens to this one and not that one, for your your book, uh the pastor as gardener, that's coming out at at the end of March, and looking forward to that being a resource for the church and for her pastors. So we're grateful for the work that you're doing, brother.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Thank you, guys.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Thanks, Matt. Thanks for listening to today's episode of the CPT Podcast, a theology podcast for the church. If you enjoyed this episode, would you consider subscribing if you haven't already? You can also help us out by leaving a rating and especially a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening. We love hearing from listeners in this way, and it helps others find out about the show. The Pastor Theologians Podcast is a production of the Center for Pastor Theologians. You can learn more about the CPT at our website, Pastor Theologians.com. You can also find us on Facebook, YouTube, and follow us on Mates. This show is produced by Seth Korch and Sophia Luke. The show is recorded and edited in partnership with Glowfire Creative, and editing is done by Seth Freikorps. Hosting duties are shared by Joel Lawrence, Ray Paul, and me, Zach Wagner. Thanks for listening.