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TubeTalk: Your YouTube How-To Guide
Sora Changed YouTube Forever, Here's What You Need To Know
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We break down why Sora 2 feels like a before-and-after moment for content creation and what it means for tools, creativity, copyright, and trust. We push past hype, share where lines get crossed, and map practical ways to adapt without losing your voice.
• what sora 2 is and why it matters
• prompting vs creating, and where tools end
• lowering barriers and rising competition
• “ai slop” definitions, intent, and quality
• accusations of ai use and proving human work
• likeness, consent, and ethical red lines
• copyright risk, parody limits, and safe uses
• practical workflows: b‑roll, editing, ideation
• misinformation loops and fact-check habits
• what platforms may restrict next and why
• how to futureproof with voice, trust, and series
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Even if you are a content creator that doesn't use AI, at the very, very least, you need to understand it because it's going to affect you. You will 100% be affected by this. Hey, welcome to the only podcast that I'll come back to even when I'm still sick, because I got important things to talk to you about. I'm Travis, and I'm here with the only guy that I really want to do this episode with, Dan. Oh, what a mistake for you. Yes. It should be fun time. Ladies and gentlemen, this could be the last episode ever, because you never know what we're going to say here. We're going to have lots of things to say. At what I think is probably one of the most important subjects we've talked about in quite a long time, just because of what's happened in the last, what is it, 96 hours or whatever it is, uh, from the recording of this podcast. But if you're new here, we're normally a podcast that tells you how to grow your YouTube channel. But today, we're talking about a very important subject, which is AI and content creation in Sora. Now, okay, yes, we've been talking about AI here and there for the last year or so, but something happened over the weekend that has changed content creation, I believe, perhaps forever. Like there's gonna be a moment. There's this quote in this movie that I love, Dan. And uh it says there are, and it's Denzel Washington, it says this. It says there are where time is split into two, where things happen before this and after this. And I feel like this is that moment where everything before this was one thing, and everything after this will be the other thing. And uh today we're gonna talk a little bit about SOR2, how it's changed content creation right now, what we think is going to happen in the future, and why, even if you are a content creator that doesn't use AI, you absolutely need to watch this episode and know about this because it's going to affect you. Let me be clear. Even if you don't use AI for anything, you will 100% be affected by this. There is no getting around this. Cats out of the bag. Everything's happening. So we're gonna help you try to navigate that and tell you everything you should know. And let's start with first, what the heck is Sora 2? Some people don't even know what it is. So, Dan, start off by kind of explaining it, and I'll explain the app as well. But tell us a little bit about what Sora 2 is.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh, this is uh we've now we've already had Sora. This is the second iteration. Uh, it is a AI video generator. You prompt videos into existence with some text. You can put yourself in the videos very easily. And to date, what people are basically saying is that this is like finally like a tool for I say the word finally, like in terms of like people who are really like super excited about this. Finally, like this is a way to kind of like take your image and likeness and do things with it. Uh, whereas before it's always kind of struggled. I would argue it's still struggling with people's faces, but it, you know, it's an extra step in that direction of being able to take people and replicate them for better or for worse.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And the the things that make it kind of different from before is number one, it also launched with like a social media app, basically. The SOR app is basically now a social media app, um, essentially where everything on it is all AI generated stuff. So there's no like disclaimer needed because the entire app is social is is AI, right? Like you don't have to do a likeness of you in a video, but I think a lot of people are because it's interesting. Um the video quality is actually excellent, and one of the biggest things that's added to this was sound. So up until this point, a lot of times a lot of the videos you would generate previous to this didn't have like sound and and likeness. Um you could you could do them separately. Like you go to Levin Labs and generate sounds of your someone's voice, but all that plus the sounds in the video happen all at one time on your phone. There are some kind of restrictions. Uh A, it's like a 10-second video. So it's not, I mean, it you can't do a lot with that, right? It's not a YouTube short length, really. I mean, it is, but you know, 10 seconds. Uh, number two, and we'll talk a little bit about this later. The restrictions have started to tighten more so in the last day or so than when they were when they originally came out. Once upon a time, you could make a video about everything. So we're gonna we'll talk about that later when we come more to copyright and that stuff. Um, and you know, essentially, you can still like make anything. Like I could make a video if Dan was my friend on the app. I can make a video of Dan and I just doing this podcast, and it would sound exactly like Dan and I do in this podcast, and it would look just like us. Um, so it's a fun thing to kind of do, especially if it's a curiosity, you've never seen anything like it before. It's actually kind of mind-blowing. That's the fun part, right? I think, oh, cool, I can do these little fun things, I can fly in space and I can sing on a I can sing on America's American Idol and look like I know what I'm doing. I've done all these, by the way. I did that, and it's cool, like it's great. But, and there's a big butt here. The thing is, is we have seen now how powerful this is. And I'm gonna say this, it's been said before, and Rob Wilson says it a lot. This is as bad as it's going to be. That is to say, it's only gonna get better from here. So all the little things we'll pick apart about, um, you know, it's not always perfect the way it does in the videos and stuff. This is as bad as it's gonna get. It's only gonna get better. And AI is a tool, and I think that's gonna be really important to understand this. And no part of this um video or this audio podcast, when you're listening, are we going to try to convince you to use or not to use AI or Sora? It's not important for us to try to convince you that you should use AI. However, you absolutely, positively need to understand the impact that's going to have in the creative community and to know what your part in that is. And should you be even educated on this? And the answer to that is yes. At the very, very least, you need to understand it. Even if you don't want to use it, you need to understand it. Because your competition now is now not someone who has an amazing camera who can script write, who can storytell, it's someone that has a phone and a bit of an idea. That is now becoming your new competition, which is wild. We got here quick. I said like over a year ago, uh Dan, that AI is going to grow not linearly, but like logarithmically. Like it's not six months today, between what happens now and six months from now, is not what happened six months ago. It's gonna be twice as fast or three times as fast. We're gonna see stuff that's even better in six months. And what I mean better, I mean like maybe more realistic or whatever it is. And I know you have a lot of concerns about this, and we should. We're gonna talk about the concerns and the pros and pros. But let's talk first about AI being a tool. Like you, we have tools, a lot of them are power generated by AI, and that's fine. A hammer is a tool. Let's talk about a hammer. Let's talk about all right, Dan, me and you were cavemen back in the day. All right. I wish we've been building caves with rocks and stones for as long as we can remember. Some dude, Croc, he comes over to us, he says, Ugh, I make hammer. I look at Dan, I go, Dan, a hammer? Man, what is that crap?
SPEAKER_00:Who's gonna use a hammer? And then I show you by whacking you in the head with it. Because that's I imagine that is when people don't know how to when people find a new technology back then, they probably just hurt each other with it.
SPEAKER_01:It was it was a weapon, it became a weapon instantly. Yeah. But I go, you know what? I don't want to use a hammer. I don't want to know about a hammer. I've been using a rock and stones all this time. I'm gonna keep using a rock and stone. Grock goes, okay. I use hammer. Yo, three weeks later, he built a mansion in the trees. I couldn't do that because I don't have a hammer. Does that mean I needed to use a hammer to live my life? No. But I better know how to use a hammer because that tool became really good. Now, AI as a tool, Dan, I want you to tell us your honest thoughts about just this subject. I know you got a lot of other thoughts. We're gonna get to all of it. Your thoughts of AI as a tool.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So when you think about, because if we're talking specifically about Sora, I think we get away from the tool discussion. And the reason I say that is because I use AI as a tool in my video editing software. I I if I do gameplay commentary videos, the way I record them is I I talk and then I'm doing my actions as I'm talking, and then I'll stop talking, and maybe I'm grinding out a task in the game. I gotta go chop some trees so I have some materials to build a thing I need to build. I'm not gonna talk through that, but I'm still recording, just in case uh, you know, something springs up on me and it surprises me or whatever. And then I use an AI tool to go through all of the silence, silent parts, and I cut all those out in a snap. I used to have to do this manually, and now it has saved me time, and that's what a hammer is going to do. That's what a tool is going to do. It's gonna save you time so that I can get to the fun part of editing the video, which is like constructing a narrative and really putting myself into that process. With Sora, where my personal, again, personal stance on this is when you prompt a video into existence, and I'm gonna be very careful with my vocabulary here. I'm still I'm still trying to make this part of my daily vocabulary, the word prompt. When you prompt a video into existence, you depending on what you're planning to do with that video, and I'm coming from some experience here. I'm noticing people prompt and then upload, but if you if you have a plan to like use that footage in another video or something, it the line between tool and just thing you are using becomes very blurry very fast.
SPEAKER_01:Sure, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so I think when it comes to tools, you know, if you have a hammer, it's likely that you might look at everything like it's a nail. And this is where the learning part comes in. And this is where I think there's a lot of debate. And I feel like with AI, we're the where we're at right now is there's like two sides, right? There's you like it or you don't. But well, unfortunately, with when it comes to arguments about sides, people always think in twos when really even a quarter has technically three sides. You know, it there's a lot of different aspects to this. And so I've just described my the my purposes of using AI to do things that I don't like doing faster so I can get to the things I like doing. But to me, that is the difference. I think calling Sora a tool really depends on the user and how it's being like the intent behind it.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So also I want to mention that one of the reasons we're also talking about Sora too is that YouTube's already announced a version of this that they were gonna do for shorts anyway. I also wonder at YouTube if people are like, if the product manager is going, oh crap, ours is not even nearly as good as or maybe theirs is better. Who knows, right? Like they they kind of showed off this thing that's gonna come where you can do generative stuff. Where is their line? Like, is their line because the thing that I have I don't even know if I call it an issue with like from the entertainment side of things, I actually love Sora. I think it's an entertaining um platform. We'll talk more about whether or not it's creative in it later in the because that's a whole other conversation. But the other thing about Sora that makes it less of a tool than something else is that it's actually kind of doing the creating, like it is lowering the barrier to entry, which can be a good thing. We might see ideas and stuff from people that normally like maybe they have great creative ideas and stuff that we would all love, but we never get to see it because they don't have the phone or the or the camera or whatever, the time or whatever, and they can do some really cool stuff with with AI to create things that we would never normally normally see. And I and I'm down with that. But you don't even have to give Sora that many words, and then it'll create something kind of cool. So is it Sora that's creating or is it the creator that's creating? I don't think the creator's really creating that much anymore, especially when you do the remixes. So what happens is you create a video, it does something cool, like maybe I'm driving a pizza car and I deliver pizza to Dan. There's an option if you're watching it in your feed to quote remix it. And you just add a couple extra words and say, instead of a pizza, uh make Travis deliver a hot dog to uh to Dan instead. That's all you said, and now it will now recreate that scene and sometimes change things. And now it's a completely different thing. But you didn't have to shoot it, you didn't have to edit, you have to color correct, you didn't have to, you know, think about the the where the camera goes. So are you really creating anything? I like that Dan uses the word prompt because that is what you're doing. You're you're a prompt engineer in a way. And is that creative? Aspects of it are like you could definitely say, Well, this idea itself wouldn't have existed unless I came up with it. Okay, fair. However, it seems like the more you add on to that thing, the less creative you have to be. You just add like a word or two here. Oh, make it a hot dog, make it a pizza, you know, make it a a bird flying with uh, you know, with uh weird hairdo. Like you're not you're hardly being creative anymore. So it it's in a way almost like it's allowing you to be less creative to get more out of it, which is interesting. It's like a seesaw thing. You know how like you're on a seesaw, you don't have to do as much to get as much to come you know a lever or whatever it is. You know what I'm trying to say. Yeah. I'm sick. I'm trying to, my brain hardly works.
SPEAKER_00:To to jump on that, like I think one one person, uh one type of person I would love to talk to about this, and I don't know who it would be, is someone who understands like the brain, you know, the left brain and the right brain, and just someone who understands the brain a bit, because I would love to know what is physically happening in your mind when you are prompting something versus drawing something, for example. Because I think it's a completely different set of neurons that are firing here. If you are taking, let's say you have a video where you're holding a pizza and you're like, I actually want to hold a hot dog, you already did the art part where you you set up your whole shot and you shot yourself holding the pizza and now you are making a change to it. It's a different aspect, it's more technical. It's it's it is you're not building up a camera and lighting anymore. Like, I don't want to go get a hot dog, I'm just gonna make AI do this. So it is a creative process, and I'm not here to gatekeep what is and isn't creative, right? But you you went from doing one thing with your hands to doing something else. You still use your hands and a keyboard, but you are prompting a different version of the thing that you made. And it was, of course, there's always that whole thing that in the background here where this stuff is trained on a billion other hot dogs that people have taken pictures of and drawn and everything else. So, did you make that? There's been some people who've gone in and said, well, AI is technically constructing from nothing a hot dog where there wasn't one before, so it is making a hot dog. But yes, it had to learn what that looked like through all these different images, blah blah blah blah. Not getting that deep right now. Um, just acknowledging that it exists. And my point is, I I don't I don't exactly know, but I think my issue like is when people try and gatekeep what is or isn't a thing. And I don't even say gatekeep, actually it's wrong. My issue is when people become territorial about the thing that they posted online and say, like, I made this, how dare you?
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:When you and I recognize that they prompted it and AI made it off of all the other stuff that it had to ingest to make it. And it's okay. I think I just wish people there, and a lot of people are, but some people are not, honest when it comes to what they are putting out there. Like, and maybe we get into I don't know if you in your notes you have this, like that obviously this leads to misinformation, people who are intentionally being dishonest and all that stuff. And we have a whole world to get into here in the next year or two as as this takes hold. But I don't know if I'm you know adding on here babbling, but that's that's kind of my stance on it is I think creativity is is a lot of different things, and I just think there's different parts of the brain that are being used to do certain creative tasks. When I'm making the video, I'm like writing the script, I'm trying to tell a story, I'm trying to construct a narrative. When I'm editing the video, I'm trying to literally technically construct everything now. I already did one side of the creative part, and now I'm doing the other side of the creative uh project. And so it's confusing, but I think we should be able as people to understand the nuances here.
SPEAKER_01:Well, so I'm excited for AI editing because that's something that I now editors gonna be like, nah, that's my thing. And I get it. I'm not a big I weirdly, I went to school for editing. I was a professional editor for a long time. I don't really care for it anymore. Um, there is uh the option here on Riverside, which we record a podcast on, to do like AI editing by prompt, which is interesting. So it'll take our uh it's not gonna generate anything, it's just gonna edit us and then put like lower thirds and stuff, which is cool. I like that. I'm all about that life. Um but and and and even for Sora to like generate B-roll that you could use in a otherwise created video, I'm a thousand percent down with. And as mindless scrolling that I want to do on a Friday night, I'm again 100% down with Sora in so many different ways. Like I actually enjoy the process, and I've kind of dove into it as a creator and as a viewer. Well, I again prompter. I shouldn't say creator, prompter. Let me be honest about it.
SPEAKER_00:You won't offend me if you interchange those words.
SPEAKER_01:No, but I think you've you've made me think about it in a very realistic way. And I want to be very realistic about what I'm doing. I'm prompting, I'm not creating. So this again, so we talked about how it lowers the barrier to entry, which could be a good thing or a bad thing. The person who talked about this recently was Casey Neistat. I love Casey Neist, I think he's one of the most creative and and and really interesting and great storytellers of our time. He did a video about Sora and stuff, and he kept using the term AI slop. I want to talk a little bit about this, mainly because his definition is not my definition. And then I started thinking, well, maybe my definition is no one else's definition. Because I think when people hear a phrase, no matter what it is, we create our own definition if we don't ask specifically what it means. Sometimes based off of what is said or the context in which it's said. So for let me give my definition of like AI Slop. For me, AI Slop is low effort, low quality. Both. Sora is low effort. Let's just be honest. It is 100% low effort. No one's gonna change my mind on that. But is it low quality? No. I've seen some really high quality, very entertaining, very thought-provoking even things on there. So I don't think everything that's on source is AI slot. I just I fundamentally disagree with that. But that's because my definition is it has to meet both things low, low effort, low quality. We see a lot of that across YouTube and stuff where it's like an AI thumbnail with like AI voice and like the AI, like you didn't even do anything. Like the video, you didn't even make it. I consider a lot of that like AI slot. But I don't think a lot of this is. And Casey was throwing everything into the AI slot bucket and saying, well, you know, just in general, like it's it's all the stuff that doesn't matter. But that's not necessarily true. There were some, again, some either very entertaining or even sometimes very educational, for short as it was, uh, soar clips. Now, some people will clip soar clips together and make like a video out of it. We'll talk a little bit about TV shows later because that's what people are doing for that. Um and I think that's fine if you're like bringing together a story. So I don't consider a lot of what I have personally seen AI slop. Although, however, not only have I seen some AI slop, I have made some AI slop. I didn't know it was gonna be when I made it. Uh when I prompted it. When I prompted it, I thought it was gonna be amazing and great. When it came out, it was slop. It was crap, no good. So uh, but I didn't post any of that. I just you can leave it as a draft. You don't actually have to, you know, let it post anywhere. So in your mind, like, what is the difference? Because I think the definition of what that even means, we're not even no one's even defining it anymore. Like, what does it mean?
SPEAKER_00:I I and I am hesitant to give a definition and go around saying, like, well, that's that's just AI slot, because I said it is. I I do have I'm qu I lean closer to Casey in the sense that he's putting everything in that bucket. I don't think everything is again. I think intent is the thing that gets lost in when the nuance is always lost on the internet. But like when it comes to this conversation, intent is that nuance. If you were intending to do something fun and ironic, then is it slop? Maybe, maybe it maybe you say it is in jest. You're like, oh, I made some slop for you to enjoy. Here you go, and you send it on Discord or whatever. Um, if if your intent is to edit a video and use an AI tool to speed up the workflow, or maybe you are the kind of person who wants to use it for B-roll or whatever. Um, I I don't know if it matters whether you as a as the person behind that media categorize it as slop or not. I I'm the kind of person where I look at how the audience is perceiving it, because we're really talking at the end of the talking about YouTube here and or Netflix or whatever. Like if Netflix is gonna put AI ads on Netflix, which is something they're doing and testing, are those AI slop ads to some? And I would argue, yeah, a lot of people are gonna call it that. And I think if we live in a world where people like Casey Neistat are are everywhere saying, well, that's slop just because it has that AI glow to it, then that is kind of what I'm responding to as a as a creator myself. It's like, okay, if so if people are gonna call things uh that that I that I like or don't like or whatever, if people are gonna call it slop, then I guess I just need to be ready to hear that as a criticism, you know, or maybe people say it in as fun. Okay, brain rot is another great example here. Yeah, there's content on the internet that is posted, and the creators who make it proudly call it brain rot in some cases, not all of them. And I think it ex it exists in the sloposphere too. And it not even sloposphere.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I just TM that and copyright that right now because that's that's hot.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, copyright is dead, it wouldn't matter. So in in the sloposphere, it goes outside of AI. I I watch a channel sometimes that covers like internet drama, and their video stories one to two minutes, and he calls it slop live. He's like, Welcome back to Slop Live today's slopic, and he and he goes into this this one-minute tangent about something he saw on Twitter, and they're fun and silly. And he this is the creator adding the label themselves because this is not nourishing anything. He's giving you is he knows he's like, hey, I see it as him admitting that I what I'm putting out there right now is not nourishing to your brain. You don't need this in your life, you don't need to watch this or listen to it. It's just here in case you want it. And I think what we're learning is there is a demand by by some level, maybe different for others. First flop, people sometimes people just want to let their brain turn off and watch nonsense. When that AI like Seinfeld thing was on Twitch a couple years ago, I watched a bunch of it. I thought it was hilarious. It was when the LLMs were really brand new and like people didn't really fully understand what they were capable of. This team put together a project, I think they used like Unreal Engine or Unity to make the characters animate and have the shots changed as to represent who was talking at the time. And it was just, you know, bad voiceover, and and it was just an AI script, and it was just playing out these like three-minute episodes of like a Seinfeld-like show. And that to me was slop, but there was ingenuity behind it, and there it was intriguing, there was it was funny. So I guess I don't know my definition, Travis. I think it's more of like what I view as the intent behind it. If it's trying to deliberately mislead me, I might call it slop. If it's trying to entertain me and make me laugh, and it does, I might still call it slop. But I might have like a different in that moment, I might be saying, like, that's like for AI slop, that's pretty funny. You know what I mean? Yeah, right, right. So I don't know. People look at it as there, there are people who we've encountered who are like, How dare you? Like, you don't even utter the phrase. And I just can't get on board with that. It's like, well, no, it's this is just in the vocabulary of the internet. If you made content and someone categorized as brain rot, maybe you should ask yourself that question. Like, well, why did they think it was brain rot? I didn't think that. Right. If if you're making content and people are saying you're just making AI slop and they're mad at you, ask yourself why they're mad at you. Like, you know, if you're getting that criticism enough to where it looks like it's more than trolling, you know, it's time to ask yourself some questions.
SPEAKER_01:I think the question is like, what does this all mean? And the answer is is super simple. We don't know yet. It's actually way early to be asking that question. Um, be brave and figure out what aspect of AI makes sense for your your channel. It could be something as simple as a script writer, which we have here at VidIQ, which I love actually. It's fantastic for doing research for your own YouTube channel. I actually use our VidIQ script writer specifically for that, even when I don't use a script. And that's the thing I think is super powerful about it. So there are reasons to use it. Having said that, if you start a channel, you're like, okay, look, here's what I'm gonna do. The video quality at times is super realistic. When it hits or it hits hard. So then the question is if you like take a bunch of clips and maybe make a short channel or something, if you're trying to do it just to to generate uh money, first of all, we're gonna talk about copyright here in a minute. Because we don't know how this is gonna work. But if you make a short channel blows up, who was who is quote the famous one here? Was it the AI or you? And who is the the creative force behind it? The AI or you? And I think there are plenty of people out there that just want to create a channel that just makes money for them, and they aren't really interested in a creative endeavor, and this is perfect for them. It lowers the barrier even more than it already was. And with full respect, as long as they're not doing anything that uh is illegal or whatever, I'm not really interested in helping them. And maybe I should be, but I'm I'm not really that interested. I'm interested in here for the creators that are passionate about what they do and that they want something creative, and they see this as an opportunity to elevate their their current thing that they do. And I think there is something in here for you. And as things come by, there might be that shot that you've always wanted to put in your video, you've never been able to do. Maybe you just want to have something different in your background. Maybe you just want a really nice b-roll shot of a product or a thing that you're talking about, but you just don't have the ability to do it. So I can do it for you, and you can put it in your video, it's not that big of a deal. I'm I think that's fantastic, and that's great. I again I'm not on board with the people that are just trying to monetize it just for monetization's sake, but as long as you're not hurting anybody, you know, go go go for it. The question now is, and we're gonna get into some kind of heavier stuff, is what is real anymore? Like I saw it's weird, interesting. We were doing um uh live stream audits today earlier, Dan. We were looking at a channel and a bunch of people in the comments were like, is this AI? So now it's getting to the point where you might be falsely accused of using AI, which is wild. We're not we're at the point now where AI is so good that it looks so real that people will look at real content and think it's AI, and that's problematic. I'm not even sure you can do anything about that. But let's talk a little bit about that, and then we'll talk about humans and stuff. But let's just talk about the content itself. Let's say you are a content creator, Dan, and maybe this will happen to you, who knows? And all of a sudden you start seeing comments. Oh, that's just an AI thing. Oh, it looks like AI. What are you thinking as a creator, and how do you kind of avoid this as a thing? Because it might start being a thing.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, this is kind of one of those things I don't think you can really avoid. I think if you're going to okay, so here's I'll tell you some people I have sympathy for. People who make really like um, and we we can we can maybe, I know we're gonna talk about it a little bit later, but there's a there's a YouTube channel that that has a very unique art style we're gonna talk about. And um, that art style is one that AI already knows how to mimic if it wants to. And so you could almost ask yourself, and maybe in the comments of their videos, oh, do they use AI now that they have it? You know, now there's a bunch of animators. If they want to, they could fire their animators and just use AI to create all these really unique things. They can train an AI on their own work and repli replicate it or whatever. So I think if you make something as a person, you now unfortunately, I don't think this is a good thing. Unfortunately, I think you need to disclose that you made it as a as a human. I made this without the assistance of AI. Or if you have used AI, you should say minimal assistance with AI or whatever, whatever it might be. Like, for example, there are games that go up on Steam, and Steam has policies now where you need to disclose if you used AI and to what degree. And so I looked at one game and I thought their banner looked kind of suspicious, you know. I'm like, oh, that looks like an AI image. And they disclosed, they used AI for some art assets, including the icons in the inventory screen. So like let's say it's an inventory where you have like an axe and a pickaxe and like a shovel. Like they used AI to generate those images, and they said, Oh, and we used you know humans to generate these images, right? Like, so they they were honest about it, and I think at the minimum, people at least appreciate that. So I guess what I'm saying is unfortunately, as human creators, we now have to like say that we're human creators. Authors need to say that this wasn't written with AI. If you paint or not paint, if you like put something on the internet digitally, I think we need to say that. And people can choose to take your word or not, and you can't do anything about it if they disagree, like, well, clearly you're a liar. Like, you can't do anything about someone like that. But I think it's it's a bit of a shame when you do see somebody being accused of that and you know them, and you're like, oh no, that's just always been their art style. What are you talking about? I hired a thumbnail designer to do some animated thumbnails, and I was wondering if I would see that criticism, but no one no one said that, thankfully. And they're very unique and very specific. Because I that's why I hired a thumbnail designer. I'm like, I want this specific type of image. And I had their them credited in my description, and I was ready to pin a comment if I started getting comments saying, I can't believe you used an AI thumbnail or anything like that. Um you know, but that never happened, thankfully. So right now, at least we are in a time where where people seem to be detecting the differences, or if they if they thought it was and didn't say anything, I can't do anything about that. But yeah, I think I would have to be ready to disclose as the creator that no, a human made this.
SPEAKER_01:It's wild because. You know what? I've actually seen this uh just in the past week with a video game company. There's a video game company that I actually am familiar with because I've worked with a little bit in the past. And they um just recently released an older game, uh, I think it's Final Fight or something. And the some of the graphics that they put on, they were being accused of using AI. And they're like, no, I we we watched our we have a guy here, like he works here, and we you know, we talked to him and we've seen him actually make the thing. They're like, no, and no one will believe it. Right.
SPEAKER_00:I have a story about that too.
SPEAKER_01:This is our employee. We're telling you he drew this. We've seen drafts of it, and they're like, Well, he lied to you then. Like, wow, it's that's where we are right now.
SPEAKER_00:Famously, there's a game called POW World, and it's already in a lot of trouble because of it's rep it's representation of critters that look like Pokemon. In my opinion, it's it's not doing anything wrong. I've seen enough to feel to have that opinion. But when it first came out, people accused them of not only copyright infringement, which I think they proved their personally, I think at least in the court of public opinion, they proved their innocence on, but they also got accused of using AI for their assets, and they're like, No, we didn't. And they were like showing 3D models and stuff. And then the person who accused them later said, Oh, I was wrong. And and to this day, I was in a live stream like chat the other day, and PowerWorld came up, and they were like, Oh, wasn't that the AI game? And I'm like, Oh my gosh, here we go again. No, no, I worked for them. Maybe they did, but I that's the whole point is like once that sticks and once that label is on you, it doesn't go anywhere.
SPEAKER_01:It doesn't because people only know about the initial story. Yeah, they don't necessarily follow up. It's sad to say that that's actually true. It's like the initial story of something will make big news, whatever it is, and then the follow-up might be like, oh no, that was just that was BS, it never happened that way. And a lot of people didn't hear that. They only know about the one bad thing. And I think it's important to also realize that as a creator, same thing. You know, if they come to your content and you say something offhand, maybe you don't even believe it, maybe you're just making a joke. That's that's a first impression. First impressions are huge. And uh, you know, the YouTube algorithm also pays attention to what new viewers do when they come to your video. Do they ever come back and watch any other videos? If the answer is no, you might not be shown to a lot more new creators, which makes it harder to grow if you're not being shown to new viewers. Uh it's very hard to grow because you know you need new viewers to grow your your channel. So it's very important to recognize that. And in a situation like this, where sometimes things are too good to be true, but they're just really good, very creative people, they are now gonna be lumped in with something that's hyper realistic. And now you're like, well, where's the truth? And that's gonna be very difficult to disseminate the further we get into this. That's why I'm making such a big deal about this, because like I said before, this is as bad as it's ever gonna be. It's only gonna get better from here. And better is a subjective word, you can for better or worse. But I look at it from a more positive way. I think I acknowledge that there will be negative sides to this, but I see opportunity more than I see the negativity. I mean, with anything that comes out, no matter what it is, there'll be a negative side to it. 100% it is what it is. We're life, we're humans, we make we make, we do bad things. But I also see a lot of good that can come from it as long as it's being done in a way that makes sense, and we'll talk about that right now because a lot of the things you used to be able to make three days ago, you can't make on SOAR anymore because of all the likeness things. So while copyright is a thing everywhere else, at least for the first 24, 48 hours on Sora too, it wasn't really because you could make entire episodes of TV shows like South Park, you could take South Park characters and have them say whatever you wanted. You could take Bob Ross and have him say or do whatever he wanted, which is really funny. Some of it was really funny. And and in one instance we'll talk about right now, you could take Robin Williams and have him say a bunch of stuff, and this came this became real because uh Robin Williams' daughter actually started talking about this because I think people, even with good intentions, would send her clips of Robin Williams saying things on Sora 2, thinking maybe she would appreciate it, and she did not.
SPEAKER_00:No. I have the statement. She did not go ahead. Um, I I don't know if I'll read the whole thing, but it starts out please just stop sending me AI videos of dad. Stop believing I want to see it, or that I'll understand. I don't and I won't. If you're just trying to troll me, it's I've seen way worse. I'll restrict and move on. But please, if you have any decency, stop doing this to him and to me and to everyone, full stop. Like the this, like just that one part alone is like, of course, like it's already bad enough that we can just resurrect Stan Lee and put him at Comic-Con and charge people to talk to AI Stan Lee. Like, I was already like, ew, but if if the estate is involved and there's been deals struck, it's like whether he wanted to or not, like there's like at least a legal process that happened in the background, whether I like that process or not. But this is like next level of like, oh, come on. Like, people, not only are they using famous actors who may have since passed to do whatever they want, they are now like bothering the family of those actors with their videos, which is just really heartbreaking. And that is the kind of thing where it crosses a line for me, where I won't stand for it. I have nothing nice to say about anyone doing that. Um, she goes on to say to watch the legacies of real people be condensed down to this vaguely looks like and sounds like them. So that's enough. Just so other people can churn out horrible TikTok slop, puppeteering them is maddening. Um, you're not making art, you're making disgusting overprocessed hot dogs. So it's very like and this is the thing too. If you are in the camp of like, I actually like this stuff, this is how you turn people off from it forever. Like, and I like I am probably closer to being one of those people. Like, I see how it can be used. I I try to have nuance in everything that comes out. I try not to let everything be so politicized where I have like a very simple one side or the other take. Um, but it it is this kind of thing when I see it, it's like, yeah, if tomorrow these types of tools just disappeared, if this is how people are gonna use them, then I'm not mad because this is horrible to me. Um but I know it's it it can be more nuanced than that, doesn't have to be that. But this is this is where she's at right now, and I don't blame her at all.
SPEAKER_01:And that's her dad. So I I fully respect that, and I I will never take anything away from her feelings on it because it's exactly the way she feels, and more power to her, and I'm sorry that she's going through that. I saw a video the other day where Tupac and uh Michael Jackson were doing a new song, and I'm like, this is hot, I like it. But I am I am I respecting them uh by viewing it and by enjoying it? Would they ever like to do that? I don't know. I mean, when you start bringing back people that are are have passed on, you do go into a new gray, weird area. And we saw that with the Bob Ross stuff. We see it with a lot of people. And you know what's interesting is I think people get less weird about it the older the person is. So, like I saw some stuff with um with like George Washington and Abraham Lincoln in it. It's kind of like, well, these guys, did they even really exist? I mean, yeah, they did exist. So they are, I mean, we should probably respect them all the same. You really can't make those now. I mean, there's probably ways around it, but it's certainly not as easy as it used to be. As a matter of fact, I think the restrictions are so bad now that you can make something that's not even bad and it won't even let you anymore. Like, I I try to prompt, I would try to see how simple I can make the prompt. I think I put something like I'll never do that again, or something like that, just as the only prompt. And it wouldn't let me do it. It was like, well, this might violate policy. I'm like, bro, I didn't even say what it was. There's no context behind this. You came up with it, AI, I didn't. So it's your fault.
SPEAKER_00:Guilty conscience.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. What are you worried about? I wasn't thinking of it like that. So then we get to Hollywood, which definitely has a reaction to this because this is getting so good that and like I said before, we're gonna talk a little bit about copyright. I definitely would like to get Ian Corzine to talk more about this. It's gonna be wild to talk about copyright because technically there still is copyright, but this stuff it's it's a could it be considered parody or something? I mean, maybe like some of the stuff could be considered parody, but if I try to recreate an entire episode, which has been done, of things like The Simpsons or or South Park, episodes that don't exist you can actually remake. And they sound and look exactly like the television show. I'll be honest, I would love to make a new season of The Office that'll never be made. And using Sora, if it would unrestrict that stuff, could guarantee I can make a really good episode of The Office that will never be able to be made. Where is that on the line of things? Obviously, it's against copyright, so they'll never let you do it. But when you have uh because you can actually have uh AI like local, like if you have a GPU that's powerful enough, you can actually download the software and make it yourself. Morally, where is that? Is it okay to have generated a new version of a TV show that you could otherwise act out, but you actually get the real actors to act it out even though they're not there? What do you think about that?
SPEAKER_00:I I don't know why my mind is going here, but the first videos I ever posted to YouTube, I was a kid, and I had um, I think it was using like Halo or something. I saw red versus blue, and I was really inspired by it. So I took, I made little music videos, and I took popular songs, and I would film shots of the Halo characters doing things that was that were like as if it was a music video shot in Halo, basically. But I was using copyrighted songs. I'd post them um to YouTube or wherever it was at the time, and they would be later, like copyright claimed, I think even some removed. And in the moment when you make that, it was hard to do. And in the moment you're like, man, that sucks. I hate copyright. This is awful. You know, like you're not just just angry and angsty about it. And like you think about it later on a little more rationally, it's like, but if I had made my own song, for example, or if I'd used music that was that was allowed to use, could I have still done this and scratched the itch I was trying to scratch with that content, but done so in a way that was, you know, like allowed. Um, and yeah, I could have. I could have hired a band and I could have had them make a funny song and then put Halo to it. Like that's red versus blue. That's how like Rooster Teeth grew. They they started there and then they hired people, and then they got into animation. They did all this stuff to make it what they wanted it to be, and that's how creativity kind of like becomes a snowball, and that's how an organization gets formed, and that's how jobs get created. And so when you talk about making the an episode of The Office just using Sora and having it take the voice of Steve Corell and make him Michael Scott and everything, I guess the question is like, yeah, you can do that if you want for your own enjoyment, if but the the problem arises when you post it somewhere, right? I agree with that. So I agree with that. What is the difference between that and just taking an episode of The Office off of a DVD, ripping it onto your computer, and sharing it on the internet, like illegally, pirating, you know, like allowing being a distributor of pirated content. That's illegal. And to me, this kind of falls into that category. It's like, yes, maybe this didn't exist as an episode of The Office, but you're still using copywritten things, you're still using other people's likenesses you didn't have permission to use to do something and post it. You can make as many episodes of The Office as you want privately if you're not gonna post them just for your own enjoyment. But and I maybe a lawyer would even argue with that. I'm just I'm not a lawyer. But let's just say, you know, like if you're not posting them in, who's gonna find out, right? Like you can do that, but like that's to me, this is not when you think about it in those terms, it's not as complicated. It's like, well, I probably shouldn't be doing that. But Travis, what you could do instead is you can hire actors and you can write a script or hire script writers and you can cast your own Michael Scott and you can cast your own Jim and Dwight, and you can make your own episodes of The Office as like a fan project. And when you transform it that much to where it's not even the same people playing the parts anymore, now you have truly created something more unique based off of other IP. Maybe you can't even call it the office anymore, but you have to call it something that kind of is indicative of that. So you can you can call it an office. Yeah, call it the paper. That'll that'll be great. Um, so that is like we it is the same exact copyright issues we've always seen arise on YouTube. When people get mad because they get in trouble for using a likeness or or uh putting up a reaction they weren't allowed to do about media they weren't allowed to do. They the you know it's never changed, it's always been this way. Tomorrow, Microsoft can say, no more Minecraft videos, take them down, or we'll do it for you. They can do that, it's their property. They can, but but they see a benefit in not doing that. And so if NBC said, hey, use these characters, you know, as much as you want, however you want, post them online, we don't care, then yeah, great, you know. But it's it to me, just because that episode didn't exist, it doesn't mean suddenly it's this creative thing. You had to rely on the likenesses of other people that people recognize. That recognizability is profitable. Channels that are killing it right now, who are doing AI content, are using recognizable likenesses that they now, you know, Sora's gonna try to make that not so they can't anymore, but they are they're gonna circumvent it somehow. They're gonna keep using um Robert Downey Jr. as Iron Man to make their own clips of Iron Man doing things he never did in the movies, and they're going to get in trouble, or at least they will probably eventually. There's gonna be a lot of it posted, so good luck. Um, but they will probably get in trouble at some point for doing that because it's just the same thing we've always been doing, except you're not taking clips from the Marvel movie and uploading them, you're just making your own now, with again IP you don't own.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I think the the the long and the short of it is don't expect to be able to make a living on YouTube or or anywhere else recreating things that are already famous, but that that already is a thing that you shouldn't be really trying to do anyway. It's just interesting now that you can create something that literally didn't exist, like new episodes and new things that don't exist, an entirely new movie if you had enough time to put it together. And I think it does bring up some new gray areas. I think um there's gonna have to be some new laws made reg regarding this. Some probably exist. It might have to be tweaked a little bit, but my guess is that uh DMCA law and copyright law and stuff is gonna have to take a look real strong look at this and make sure they're wording not that they'll change anything about how it's supposed to be enforced, but to make sure that they cover all their bases because this is such a new world to consider. Uh and same thing with YouTube. They're you know, their their process by which how this works will have to be looked at. I mean, not that it again, not that anything would have to change, but just make sure that they're covering their bases because there's a lot of things we don't know. I'm I'm sure the people I'm sure that OpenAI, who for those who don't know, also created ChatGPT and create Sora 2, knew a lot of things when they put it out, and then within 24 hours knew a bunch more things than they never thought ever would have considered. And they had to have known that people were gonna recreate famous people, so they have to know that, but maybe they didn't realize and to what degree and to like what was going to be able to be done that you could literally make a South Park episode, like it's crazy. Um so yeah, we're we're in a new interesting uh place in creativity, and like all that to say what do you need to know as a content creator? Well, the bar is now lower than it ever has been. Competition will be much bigger than it ever has been, but it always comes down to the viewer. And what's interesting is what we've seen, even on YouTube and stuff with the Sword Clips, is that the viewership right now is there. I think as a curiosity, whenever something new comes out, there's always a viewership up front. And then the question is what happens after? I still think this is different than other times where there's a curiosity about AI for a couple weeks and then it's like okay, it's just AI. This is different. You're seeing stuff that at times can completely fool you into thinking what you're seeing is real. Remember the phrase deep fake. I mean, people used to hear that a long time ago. It's just like a thing that only certain hackers could do. Everyone can do it now. So you're gonna see content created on a level that that is so wild for a kid who maybe just lives in his parents' basement and now can do you know Disney level production on his phone. And that is game changing. I think it's really important to understand that. Again, you don't have to get on board with it, you don't have to like it or whatever. You should 100% be aware of it. And I just want anyone who listens to this podcast who's really trying to grow their YouTube channel, understand like how to grow on YouTube, you need to be aware of all this. You need to understand it so that you know when you put your content out and uh you know, the guy who just started his channel the same day you did and now has 10,000 more subscribers than you because he's doing this, you need to understand why that is. And is that an audience that you might be interested in? Maybe it isn't, and that's fine. But you need to know all this to bury your head in the sand on this subject is one of the worst things you can do. You don't have to like it. I don't I don't care if you like it, you need to understand it because at some point you might need a hammer, and uh instead of using a rock and stick, that hammer might come in useful to you. And even if you don't, well, at least you should understand what it is.
SPEAKER_00:It sounds like you're trying to wrap up, but there's a whole other side of that. Okay, go ahead. When I hear you say you need to understand this, um there's a whole other aspect of this that we haven't even touched on, let's do it, which is misinformation. Just purely from the standpoint of the internet now being flooded with misinformation. It is more important than ever that we all pick up a little bit of a journalism degree and try and figure out what is real and what is not when it's presented to you on the internet. And the example I want to talk about was uh I'm gonna butcher this name. They even say it in the video, and I'm still like, I have no idea. Um, it's Kerska. Oh my gosh, it's all I'm sure you've seen their thumbnails before. It's in a nutshell. If you f if you just type in the phrase AI Slop is killing our channel, it'll pop up on YouTube first. And it is a video from the this I've I talked about them a little bit earlier. This channel that has made videos for a long time, and they have a very unique animation style, and they're always really high quality, well-researched, little kind of documentaries about cool stuff like space and the stars and time, and they're always very educational. And these are the types of videos I imagine teachers could play in school if they wanted to. Um, kind of content for for all ages of all curiosities. I've always loved like this content ever since I found it. I and I started watching it way later than I should have. It's just so good. And to see them post a video five hours ago as the time of recording this podcast called AI Slop is Killing Our Channel. I'm like, wow, what a perfect time to find this video. So before we get started recording at lunch, I'm watching it. And they point out a lot of things. I would say if you're wondering what my personal opinion is on this whole thing, you could almost just watch that and it encapsulates encapsulates all of my concerns and and uh you know positive thinking on AI as much as anything. They talk about how they use it to speed up their editing or animation style, their animation animated videos, but they are not using it to generate the actual artwork that they're animating. They their big thing that they ran into was that they were trying to use it to make a video when it first came out, and they tried to talk about a specific subject. I don't want to spoil the video too much. It's worth watching. They tried to talk about a specific subject, and at first they were really impressed with how fast the AI got back to them with like a lot of really cool information they could put in their video. And then there was like 20% of that information where they were kind of suspicious. They're like, What is this though? And when they dug into it a little bit deeper, um, they realized it was fabricated, completely confidently fabricated by the AI. And they're like, Well, that's not good. And one of the things they do with their big team of people, they work with like, I think they said in the video, like 70 people or something work there. They actually take the time before they post a video to consult with experts on this different subject matter that they talk about. And the experts were pointing out the same things, like, that's not that's not right, like about the subject. And so they're like, Okay, got it. Back to the drawing board. We'll just make sure to, you know, take what we can and like fact check the crap out of it, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they see someone else post a video about that subject, but this person leaves in all the misinformation, misinformation. And the the thing they point out in this video that I'm trying to highlight right now is that what's happening is AI will see that that video has a lot of views. And the next time someone asks an AI model about that subject, it'll see that video and it'll take in the information and be like, well, this video has a lot of views, so it must be true. And it'll regurgitate it. And this is how AI kind of learns from itself, and the misinformation becomes the only information at a certain point. And that's why you need to know about this. Because whether you like it or not, when you look for something, you might find that you could be doing your best due diligence. I well, I looked this up and the New York Times said this. The the USA, USA Today said this. So it's gotta be true. USA, where did they get their source from? Like, because it is corrupting good information at like the base level. And that is like the biggest thing. Even if you're not a YouTuber, it's why you need to be aware of this because it's gonna be on all of us to do our due diligence every single time we want the answers to a factual question answered accurately.
SPEAKER_01:So funny you say this. Um, I actually can uh give you a little bit of information on this. So Sora is interesting because when I created my account, I didn't attach it to like my YouTube channel or anything. I did use my same name. And I noticed that when I told it to say that I when I wanted it to make me do stand-up, I said, here, make a cartoon version of me doing stand-up comedy. I had to do it twice. Both times, it had me doing stand-up comedy about the subjects that I do on my YouTube channel. And I think that's interesting because I didn't give it any information about me or my YouTube channel. It just knew so I straight up said, tell me about myself. And it had me in my own voice tell everything about my YouTube channel, and it was right, except for one thing. And again, I didn't I didn't uh tell it anything about myself, I didn't connect it to an account. So it apparently like Googled it's Googled the information. There's only one thing wrong, it wasn't that bad, it was wrong. So I started in 2017, which is not true, I started in 2018, but everything else was right. So to your point, that one thing was wrong, and that will become you know true later on, like if someone were to look it up. So but even before AI, we have we have problems with misinformation, we have misinformation all the time. Remember, Jimmy Carter died a year before he died, right? And every like news organization was like, oh, Jimmy Carter's dead. It's like dude's like, bro, I'm literally right here. Say so, you know, so you do have to double check. Um I again, I've double checked. So again, I'm gonna shout out the the uh the script writer tool we have. I know in a weird ironic way, I'm like, still gotta check it. You do, but I have checked it, it's been pretty good. Having said that, always check your stuff. Uh I think that we are in a weird situation where at some point we have to tentatively trust AI. And when I say tentatively, I mean trust but verify, right? Or check but verify or whatever it is. And I think that Dan brings up a really good point, right? Is that while this tool is great, it does a lot of things, don't take it all at face value. Because sometimes there's something you know, it feels almost feels like AI wants to accomplish a goal by any means necessary, it's to make you happy and keep using it. To make you happy, right? And uh that's not always a good thing. But again, I'm not trying to villainize AI in any way. There it's such a great tool if used in the right way. We have just in a really interesting situation where you now can create an entire video with words, and that's it. You don't have to do anything else. That's it. That is a new and again, I saw some people in the chat we were doing a video, oh, it'll be over in like two weeks. Nah, this is just the beginning, bro. And I've been saying this for a long time. AI as it continues to evolve is is more compelling than ever. And at the very least, it needs to be on your radar. Again, you don't have to be an expert in it, you don't have to use it if you don't want to. If you don't like it because you think it takes away from the creative uh process, I understand, I totally get it. You still need to be aware of what's going on. You still 100% need to be aware of what's going on. We hope that we've helped you do that, and we're gonna talk more about us over the over the you know, in the future months and stuff to come, I'm sure. As Morton's Horror 3 comes out, lord knows what that's gonna be. Um I think that in the history of mankind, we had a very unusual scenario.
SPEAKER_00:Uncharted waters.
SPEAKER_01:I still think the robots are gonna take us. I think Terminator 2 is a real movie, I think it's a documentary.
SPEAKER_00:I I just my final thought here is that I think with like for anyone thinking like, well, this Sora stuff or whatever is gonna be old news in two weeks. There is a part of me that kind of agrees in the sense that I don't think people are gonna look at Sora 2 clips in a couple weeks and go, wow, right, right, right. It's always when the stuff is new, it's impressive for like a little bit and people get taken by it. But I do think what I was saying before still stands. It's it's what's happening in the background that I do think is is the part that's here to stay. And I think we as a society need to understand it, learn how to fact-check our own stuff, but also I think to to get to go an extra step here, maybe I shouldn't. We need to, as a community, say that this actually isn't cool in terms of like spreading this information everywhere. I think we should be demanding better from the companies, the very contactable companies that are putting this stuff out there. And when an improvement comes around to a GPT or a video creating tool or whatever, I'm always looking to see if they talk at all about how it's better at giving accurate information. Yes. And I agree with you. That's what I want. I don't care if it can do faces better. I want accuracy. I want to trust it because I'm being asked to trust it every day, whether I like it or not. And so that's what I want to see. And I think we can all, instead of fighting each other about whether or not it's it's a good tool or a bad tool or whatever, I think we should be saying it is a tool that's here. Let's demand it does a better job so that when people use it for educational purposes, they get good information and we can make sure that as a society we're progressing forward and not backsliding because we feed it a bunch of garbage information, and then that's all we have to go off of a hundred years from now when we're looking at our own digital library of Alexandria, and everything in there is confusing and contradictory, and nothing makes any sense.
SPEAKER_01:And like I said, uh YouTube's already announced their version of this. Uh, so it's coming to YouTube whether you like it or not. You need to be aware of it, need to be, and as the YouTube version comes out, we'll definitely cover that here and let you know more about it. So we hope we've given you a little bit of information. Dan and I have been talking a lot over the last couple weeks. Check out some of the other episodes as we have dug into why YouTube views are down. Uh, we've we've talked about what else we talk about, Dan. We talk about a lot of stuff.
SPEAKER_00:That was the that was the latest one that I think uh really hit home. And uh yeah, that yeah, that conversation and more.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. So make sure you check it out if you're listening to the audio podcast. You can always send us a message using the text test message in the show notes. But follow us on all the social medias if you're listening to a YouTube video. Hey, how are you doing? Nice to see you. Hope to hit that subscribe button, hit that like button. Of course, we'll see y'all in the next one.