From Burnout To Breakthrough: Justin Brown On YouTube, Descript, And Sustainable Growth

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We ask Justin Brown how to make better videos faster without losing your voice, and why polish matters less than personality right now. He shares the AI stack, the research system, and monetization plays that work even with small view counts.

• recording in Descript with AI-first editing
• research prompts that surface objections and sources
• AI review to catch duplicates, typos and leaks
• stance on faceless channels and human connection
• shorts for discovery, long form for trust
• stop over-reading early analytics
• affiliates and services as low-view revenue
• niches inside niches that thrive
• designing for TV viewing and live engagement
• using your own watch habits to guide strategy

There will be a link in the description with a connection right to his webs channel. Also in the audio podcast, if you're listening there and you don't have YouTube pulled up, we'll put links in there too

Transcript

Meet Justin Brown And Mission

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey, welcome back to the only podcast. It's not afraid to get primal with you. I'm Travis here, as always, bringing guests every week that I feel like just get better and better and better. And today I've done a great job once again, ladies and gentlemen. Pat me on the back, please. I got Justin Brown here from Primal Video. Welcome, Justin, to the podcast. Thank you very much for having me on. Hey, um, so I've actually known Justin for a while. It's a little cheat. Like just like when I had Nick Niman on and uh Daryl Eaves. I've known Justin for a minute. So it's not gonna be this whole thing. You're probably gonna hear some things back and forth where we're like talking about things we've done before. So just know that we're good friends. But if you're new here, just know that we're here to help you grow your YouTube channel in different ways, either by interviewing uh people who are in the industry or giving you advice by answering your questions. Day Justin is a guy who's been around for how many years now? Too long. How long have you been? Too long. I think the channel's coming up in 11 years.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

I didn't have gray hairs when I started, so let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yeah. Yeah. Well, mine just fell out, so it's gone. Uh stressful. It's a stressful game. Oh my gosh, so stressful. We're gonna talk to Justin about a whole bunch of things, including things that you guys and gals have asked me in the past. And we'll see if we can get some answers from Justin. So, Justin, tell people who don't know about you, who you are, kind of what you've been doing, and uh where they can find you.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

So we can So I run the primal video YouTube channel. I started it nearly 11 years ago. 11 years ago with my brother Mike. Uh, unfortunately, we did Paper Scissors Rock and I lost, so I was the on-camera person, even though I had like video experience before. I thought I'd be filming him, and no, it just didn't work out that way. So I've been pushing comfort zones to get over my fear of talking on camera, all of the identity stuff. Who am I to be doing this, you know, mindset BS uh to get to the point where now I really enjoy it and I get to show up and help millions of people each month, make better videos faster, get better results, and get their message out to the world?

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Yeah, and I think that's kind of important. So you since you've been in it for so long, uh, and you've done uh well over 800 videos and a whole bunch of other stuff on the side. Um, what's the thing that you're enjoying right now the most as you've I mean, because after a while it gets kind of old. Like it's like I've been doing this for over a decade, I get it. But like, what's the coolest thing that keeps you going uh every day?

Finding Fun Again In Content

SPEAKER_01 2:02

So I had to shift. At one point I was, I wouldn't say burnt out, but I definitely lost the fun with it. And it was crazy because it everything was working. And it was, it got, it was, but it also was like, well, this is working, but this can't be it. Like, what's next? What's the next level? And it kind of lost the fun. So we really had to um shift and adjust the channel a bit to what would this look like if it was more fun? What types of videos would I be making more of? And so we really shifted the channel more recently to just me talking about the stuff I'm geeking out on video, tech, AI, how people can make videos faster. And to me, that's like the next level of fun because it's something I'm doing anyway. I'm testing all the latest AI tools and things, and now I just get to hit record. And I don't know, those videos to for me are way more fun and easy, but it's kind of this progression where you never know where it's actually gonna end up, especially for people who haven't started. You might have all these grand plans. I guarantee you it's gonna change. So you gotta start, you gotta start working out what you like, what you don't like, and it's gonna shift and evolve over time.

SPEAKER_00 2:59

Aspects of content creation now have never been more easy for someone who's not an expert than before. For example, thumbnails used to have to learn how to do Photoshop and stuff. You really don't need to do that anymore. Um, you know, editing is starting to get to the point where you're almost gonna be able to put it in to get it AI edited, and we're really close to that uh being kind of a more common thing that's out there, but uh for it to be more common. Uh background music, you know, you can get that done with AI. What are some of the tools that you're using now that have made your content creation uh even easier?

SPEAKER_01 3:27

Yeah, so I absolutely love this. And as for teaching video now for 11 years, to see how much easier it is, there is no better time to start than now because of how easy it is. Uh so the main tool that we're using now is DScript. I'm actually recording straight into DScript in 4K. Um then anyone remote, like our team, can jump in. But even as you said, uh AI is really doing the bulk of our editing. We have this big detailed prompt that we've built out over time and testing stuff, and that'll get the video to kind of 95% ready to go on YouTube without anyone even touching it. That's how crazy things are getting. So, what about you? What are you using to edit your videos?

SPEAKER_00 4:04

So, I mean, I'm still the old-fashioned dude. I kind of do it by hand, but the thing that I do like uh that I use like AI tool-wise is research for things that I'm gonna talk about. Because research is so important if you're in a space where you're either talking about factual things or if you're teaching something, uh, and sometimes you want to gather information from around the internet. And you can do that yourself, sure. However, uh, that could take you a couple hours depending on what you're researching, or it could take you literally a couple of seconds by talking to an AI model. We have the AI coach here at VidIQ, and I've been using that a lot. And the cool thing about it is like I'll tell it specifically, hey, this is the angle I want. I want you to talk about these three things, find um actual links so I can you know fact-check everything. Like that's still a thing you have to do, but also like these are the things I want to touch on uh and help me do that. And it just comes up with all this information within just a couple of minutes at most, and uh then I can go shoot. Because for me, the a lot of the things that stopped me from creating so much over you know the couple of years that for my personal channel was um was subject matter. Not that I I didn't want to create stuff, I did, but I'm like, I really want to talk about something that I don't really know what to talk about, I don't know how to approach it. So for me, that's been the thing with D scripts.

AI Tools That Speed Up Production

SPEAKER_01 5:16

Yeah, I like that because the amount of time that we used to spend researching stuff, even if I knew the tool, like if I was doing something on eCamm or VidIQ, I'd run I'd now run it through the Google Deep research, and it gives you like a full research paper that then I can put into another AI and say, all right, help me break this down, voice note in. Here's my thoughts and opinions, and you can you can just like have so much faster access to factual information to throw in there. But also, what are other people saying about this? What are the biggest things people hate about this tool that I can then test and then form my own basis of because you know that the comments are going to be, you didn't address this. Right. What about this thing? So I love that we've now got this access to. I mean, we used to have researchers. We used to add two reach researchers on the team. And I was talking to Ali Abdal once and he had a team of script writers and a team of researchers. I have no idea what he's doing now, but I imagine that has changed a little bit in how fast we can do this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

Yeah, and it's true. Like one of the things that I've I've told my uh uh AI coach at VidIQ is uh look for things that um that comments will probably pick apart. Like if you're if you're having to write a script or something, I'll say, hey, look through this and tell me what the well actually people will say. And it does a pretty good job of like saying these are the points you need to cover because this is probably what someone's gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yeah. One of the coolest ones I've been playing with lately has been it's still I'm using D script for it, but the AI prompt is to review the video before it goes live. So we're not gonna make any changes, as you know, as in it, we're not moving sentences and stuff around unless absolutely required. But uh give me feedback for engagement. Is there anything that I've doubled up on? But also uh typos, because it can now look on your screen. So any spelling mistakes, and I'm terrible at spelling.

SPEAKER_02 6:54

So this is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah, and the other one, what was that? Oh, uh confidential information. My cell number was leaked online in a video where I'm doing a verification process and that was a nightmare. So now it even looks for that, looks for any email addresses. I did one on StreamYard recently and it called out that I'd shared publicly the join link. And it's like, are you sure you want to share this? And to me, in this tutorial, that's fine. But yeah, if that was your live join link. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's so awesome that it's it's we now can have a reviewer that was picking up more than humans that we've had before. What was that tool again? So I'm using D script. Oh, D script tools. So I'm running it through D scripts under Lord, but we've got a review prompt that we put in. We give the prompt away. It's on our YouTube channel, you can find it. Uh yeah, this is it's next level. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 7:40

So a lot of this stuff really helps you um create in a in a the thing is is like some people have different thoughts about AI. And I I acknowledge and understand that it can be slightly controversial, but by the same token, this is the world in which we live, and these are tools. And it's really important to the even if you don't want to use them for a lot of things, it's important to at least understand them. And nine times out of ten, I can go to a creator and find something about the content creation process they don't like that could be done by AI so they can get that out of the way and really concentrate on the parts they do like and really get more of that content out. So I really want to challenge anyone who's like, oh, yeah, again, I really want you to think about this differently. I think it's so important to understand that this stuff is here to help you. And while, you know, creatively you can't be replaced, you should really always show your creative spirit. There's probably something that you hate doing. You can literally offload to this thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:29

Yeah, and that's I think that's the approach, is just be really mindful of what are the things you're enjoying, what are the things you're not enjoying. And if there's anywhere that you're procrastinating, that's kind of a big red flag. Why am I procrastinating here? Ah, I don't like going to find music for my videos because it where do you stop? There could be the next one could be better, the next one could be better, the next one could be better, and there goes days or hours, you know. So it's it's um it's those kinds of things. Be mindful of them because now there's tools that could remove that piece in the process for you. I totally hear you. I don't, I'm not a fan of AI generated, uh like the avatar stuff, yeah, the soulless content. Absolutely. If we're gonna push our comfort zones and and be out there, let it be you, your thoughts and opinions is what I'll always fight for.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

What do you think about um the kind of the rise of faceless channels? Now that can mean a lot of things. So to be clear, um, there are really amazing channels that are that are quote faceless. They don't have like a host in front of them. And that could be something like the company man who does like those really cool brand breakdowns, which is amazing. You think when the reality is like most documentaries are faceless. So I mean, you could say that, but then there's these other ones, right? What has your experience been and what are your thoughts on it? What are the kind of uh I've I interviewed a lot of faceless uh channel creators. They're a lot of them are very young, they're very smart, and a lot of them are very rich at this point. What are your thoughts about all of it?

Research Workflows And Fact Checks

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Yeah, I'm torn like you are here, because there you can have some success. I mean, depends how you define success. Like make a lot of money, whatever, with faceless channels. But to me, if that's something is if it's just regurgitating information that I could have found in Google or uh an AI can just give me and some like it's lazy content. I'd rather just go get the answer myself in my own AI than hear from an actual human how they've done something. So I'd rather hear how Travis did something or I want Travis's thoughts and opinions because I can go get general facts from anywhere. Absolutely. When I hear the AI voice, especially then if I see that there's not a face with it and it's a faceless channel, I I almost switch off immediately and want to go find something else. And I think this is the big shift, is because AI content is so fast and easy to make now, we're becoming numb to it. Yeah. Uh and if you're not there yet, maybe you will be soon, but there'll be too much of it where you're just like, okay, I need to find the human stuff. And I would love if YouTube bought out a filter at some point that you can just remove the AI stuff. Like, I want to hear from a human for this one.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Yeah. This is we're we're in a really weird place in history, um, where AI, especially this year, uh, is really being pushed fast. Yeah. And in a lot of different industries and stuff, and we've heard the stories about like jobs being replaced, and it's just very scary stuff, but also in the content creation space where there's like uh fake uh influencers that are just AI-based and fakes and stuff, which is also kind of concerning. And I think for the creatives, the the kind of artists of YouTube, they're they're they're worried, and again, it definitely makes them feel a certain way about things. What do you think will happen? I I feel like there's a tipping point where there's people that will say, Oh, well, we're gonna see people push back on AI, it's gonna the bubble's gonna burst. But I think this is so big. I don't know if the the quote bubble is gonna burst on this. It might just look different. What do you think? If you had to look into a crystal ball, what do you think this is gonna look like in just a year? I mean, forget about five years. So I'm just talking about like a year from now, like 12 months from now, what do you think this is gonna look like?

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Yeah, and I know this is where we look at how video games have progressed over time. And I remember some of the ones early days, you're like, wow, look at these graphics, they would never get better. I can't believe this. And then you look at the next one, but like looking back now from some of those early games, like I was a Seager guy, so Sonic the Hedgehog, you look at those now, like, oh my, what is this? Uh so but at the time, like, wow, look at the graphics or realistic racing car games, how they've evolved, and they they continue to evolve. So I think we're we're starting to see this, but at a crazy rapid pace with AI generated video. We're like, oh, this is pretty good. Then now I'm questioning some, like that latest seed dance stuff is the the craziest that I've seen. Um is this real? So the fact that we're questioning this now is going to be a point very soon where where we won't know what is real. Yeah. And this is where with the content that we want to do, what like even me just sitting here at a desk, that's pretty easy for an AI to mimic. So maybe I need to start moving around. Maybe I need to start walking and talking so people know that it's real. But then we'll also get to the point then where the AI could do that too. So it's where do we start? Where do we draw the line here? And I think just the more real like live streams are probably going to be huge.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:53

Uh for that human-to-human connection, which is what we're all gonna want even more than now when it's just AI stuff everywhere.

AI Review Safeguards And Mistakes

SPEAKER_00 13:01

I wonder if if all this stuff had kind of started um in the explosion of 2020 during lockdown, uh if it would have been even faster. I mean, it's fast now, super fast now. But the need for things, that the need for amount of content at that point, I mean, many channels started and blew up in 2020. Like they didn't even exist before 2020. They came in while everyone was locked down. It was a perfect time to grow a channel and they blew up. I wonder what this would have looked like back then. But where we are now and at this moment, and when we're recording this, which could be different a year from now, um, it's a tool that you need to understand. Whether or not you like it, that's fine. Um, but definitely it you need to at least understand and see if it's something you can put into place. Now, having said all that, what is the type of content right now that you're seeing on YouTube that's doing well that isn't really AI related, that's uh maybe even of interest uh to people who are listening?

SPEAKER_01 13:48

So I think we're in the the most awesome time to create content because I think the level of polish that's needed isn't where it used to be. So we used to have to add a heap of b-roll and all these graphics and sound effects and stuff. And I'm now looking at the videos that I'm engaging with and I'm spending the most time watching, and it's pretty much just someone sitting at a desk just sharing. So the retention editing stuff that's been really you know jammed down our throats for years. Like I've been teaching that too. So what whatever. But now I'd say it's not needed. So our time to produce a video now is the quickest it's ever been because I don't want to say the effort is the lowest, but the amount of work that's needed to put into a video is the lowest. We're not even adding music into our videos now. Our titles and things are super basic, and AI is creating them now. Yeah, so it's more now, right? We've got scalability. So when I am geeking out on something, the time to video going live is much less than it ever has been. And I think that's that's really the powerful piece for people. So don't overthink it. You don't need to be jamming in all this stuff, you don't need to go and add all this audio and things. Just be real, just be you is is probably the best thing that you can do. Don't overthink it. Done is better than perfect. And this is the coolest thing from someone who used to worry and help people overcome all of that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

What do you think? Um, if I usually save this question for the end, but actually I want to bring up now just because of what you said. If Oh, you we're just finishing this now? This is I want to bring this question forward because I have a feeling you're gonna dig into it deeper than some of the other creators. If you had to create a new channel now without any of the resources you have, and uh about something that's other than what you're currently doing, what would it be? How would you do it? What would it be like your first three videos and like how would you go about it?

Human Voice Versus Faceless Channels

SPEAKER_01 15:30

It's really interesting because I actually am doing this right now. Oh, and it is on something totally different. I love it. And I'm actually breaking my rules, not rules, but the way that we drew we grew things because things have changed so far. Um, so in terms of what I'm doing with this channel, uh, like we don't do too many shorts on our main channel because our we we optimize for search. So search for us is reliable organic traffic where it can take longer for a video to filter in. We find two to three months, but then once it's in that pipeline, getting traffic from Google search and from YouTube search, it's harder for you to get bumped out of that. So the snowball effect really happens where we've got so many videos that are showing up in search results. Very rarely, I don't think we've ever had one land on the homepage. We're not that type of content. We're more when you're searching for something, oh, that could be a good fit. Then that looks interesting. Maybe I'll watch that out of you know, competing with Mr. Beast and all these other big channels. So with that in mind, I'm trying to merge the two because there is benefit in having something, and if someone saw it on the homepage or suggested to them and they went, ah, that's really interesting, I'll watch that. But they had no intention of looking at something like that before, right, versus only optimizing for search. So I'm blending the two with the content, but the piece that's actually getting the traction the fastest is shorts.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_01 16:47

So shorts, fast, uh fast eyeballs, but short longevity. So I'm finding that some of them will hit 500 views and this is again brand new channel. I think it's at 30 subscribers now. Uh, and I'm not promoting it from the main channel, it's totally different audience, and I don't want to get the wrong people over there. Of course. So uh shorts are the thing that is moving the needle the most, but the piece that's going to build the relationship long term is the long form content. So I'm actually using the short form to drive to the long form.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Uh so how did you research the topic? Like, what is it specifically that made you think, oh, this is the topic I want to do?

SPEAKER_01 17:21

It's something that I'm geeking out on personally. Okay. Uh, it's more around like the quantum consciousness side of things. Okay. Uh, and you know, why are some people able to be psychics and and all of that stuff and others not? So I'm really going, it's totally, totally different. This is my midlife crisis kicking in. I love it. Uh, but that so is I'm geeking out on that stuff. So I'm just sharing stories around some of the experiences and things, coincidences, synchronicities that are showing up for me, uh, to it, which is pushing comfort zones because I know I sound like a crazy person. But this is uh, well, I would think that I sound like a crazy person. Uh but I think this is it's also bringing in the real human element of I'm just sharing an experience. So this isn't search-based content. This is you sharing an experience. I think this is where, to our point before with AI content and everything, it's the peace that the AI is not gonna have. So when we see those types of videos coming up, oh, this is, you know, I'm interested in this. I want to hear your experiences or what happened to you in that meditation, or what, like, uh, we're gonna click on it for the right people. So it's never really been about mass audience. I need everyone to watch this. You want the right people to watch your videos. And I think that's only gonna become more and more uh important as we progress with AI content taking over.

SPEAKER_00 18:37

I agree. What do you think about like how did you look for competitors in the space to see what they were doing, like thumbnail styles? Did you do any of that research or you just kind of like, I like this thing, I've watched channels on it, I'm just I already know what I'm supposed to do. I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 18:49

It's an interesting thing because right now, some of the top creators that are just hitting record on their phone in the car, and they're just talking. So very minimal, if if any editing at all, no thumbnail strategy are getting pushed. Wow. So for me, I got permission to play on this channel uh with that stuff. So the thumbnail images, I'm still trying to make them uh grab attention. Obviously, we we need to get clicked on. You have the world's best video, it doesn't get clicked on, no one sees it. So there's got to be some strategy there. But I also think that YouTube now, the algorithm the way it is, it's got so much more context than it used to. It used to help you to have keywords in a specific order. And if you missed a word, it was going to be harder to be on the top of search results. Whereas now it's with all the AI algorithm stuff in in YouTube and Google, it now knows what's happening in the video at a much greater level than it ever did, than taking something word for word. So it's got context, so it can now start to line up. Well, this person's watched this type of content before. Maybe I'll try this in front of them, even if it doesn't have the nicest thumbnail image or anything like that. So I'm not saying that they don't matter, but at least on this channel, I mean, we we've all seen cases where people aren't optimizing their titles, they don't have the best thumbnail image, and they're getting millions and millions of views. So it's the it's the story, it's it's the content that's keeping them there. So that's where we're going with this one.

Near Future Of AI And Authenticity

SPEAKER_00 20:08

And when you see, when you talk to starting creators, what are some of the the obstacles you think that they're hitting that with like one piece of advice could could make it a lot easier for most people? What is the thing you're most seeing from uh smaller creators and starting creators?

SPEAKER_01 20:22

And we could take this so many different ways because it's the tech side and getting past all of that. But I think the piece that really matters and where people stop is they start to look at their analytics after they post one or two videos. And I can tell you it's been a good ego check as well. And I like this starting a brand new channel. And I'm like, okay, I've done two videos and uh the first video pretty much flatlined. I was so tempted. I could just share this and it would get abused. I'm like, no, no, no, this is not what we're doing here. Right. And it's not for those people. Right. Uh so it's it is cool to go through this again because it's been 11 years since I did this to see what it's actually like. Um, so my advice would be to stay out of the analytics. And we say this, but to say that from a channel with 1.8 million subscribers, your analytics don't matter, or you're you're looking at them too soon for most people, is different from okay, starting from scratch, because I know I'm still wanting to look at the analytics and go, oh, good, we got another few. Exactly. So that to me is the stopping point for so many people because they're like, this isn't working. YouTube's too overcrowded, YouTube's squashing small creators or any other of these myths and things that are thrown around. Yeah. No. What if not enough time has passed yet? What if your channel isn't credible enough yet to start to get all the big views and things? But we hear these fringe scenario stories where someone posts one short, gets a million views, million subscribers. And we all strive for that, but it's not the reality. So you can have success. It's about runs on the board. It's not about getting stuck in the analytics. Um, yes, once your content has been up for some time, what can you take? What can you learn from that to make better decisions moving forward? But people are doing that too soon, they get frustrated.

SPEAKER_00 22:00

End up leaving. It's interesting because in a lot of ways, this is like if you were looking at the news and you saw that someone won the lottery and you wanted to go buy a lottery ticket, you would hope that you would win, but your expectations wouldn't necessarily be that you would win. Yeah, like this. Go to YouTube, you see a bunch of people with getting lots of views. You're like, your expectation as a new person typically is like, well, I just do the same thing and I'll get you know 10,000 views. And it's the reality, it's not that at all. It's the comparison piece.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Yes. It's oh, but my videos are better. I know more about this subject topic than that person. So it's this ego play in there as well. And try like I've been there when we started out. Why is this video getting a million views and we've got five views? Right. When this one's so much better and it answers all these questions. Yeah. So it's it's that piece. I like that, the the lotto analogy. That's cool.

What’s Working On YouTube Now

SPEAKER_00 22:42

Yeah, it I mean, because it really is. It's like expectations and stuff. And there were so many people. I remember a couple of years ago I was coaching someone, and um, one of the things that I loved telling creators how well they were doing because they had no context. I had a lot of context. I talked to a lot of creators, and I could see what the view ranges are for different sizes. I remember this one person, they had been doing it YouTube for like three months or something, and they started averaging like close to 10,000 views. This is before shorts. This is like long-form content. And I was like sitting there almost mouth agape, like, this is crazy. You don't see this very often. And they literally thought they were failing. You're like, oh, this is really bad. I'm like, are you you have no idea? You're in the top like three percent of people that can that have done this so quickly. It just doesn't, it doesn't happen that way. The reason why you see people succeed is because they are succeeding. It's a little bit like saying, uh, well, I turn the TV on and I see people uh playing basketball, they're all great, but forgetting that there's tens of hundreds of thousands of people that can't make the NBA that are still playing the game, they're still out there doing the thing, they just are not there. So you think everything, everyone's gonna be that good? No, that's not the case. And some of these creators, especially some of the bigger ones, have been doing this for so long. And for so long, they weren't getting all these views, they weren't getting all this prestige and and and all this success. So it's very difficult to explain to someone who's trying to get into it that it's not that easy. Sure, every once in a while someone pops off right away and and they do well, uh right out of the bat, and that's that's cool, I guess. Um, but by the same token, that can be kind of a bad thing. I literally talked to um the the internet dad the other day. You remember the guy who uh who did the dad how do I talked to him the other day, and you know, he had a blow-up moment. I mean, within just like a like a month or so of him uploading his first video, it went viral. But you know, he had this really cool, wholesome thing, and it just kind of worked, right? Well, he even said, I, you know, I went from zero to a hundred very fast. I kind of wish that I had the time to kind of learn the steps in between because I don't know what's going on. Like I don't know what's happening in the moment and how to work on it. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

Yeah. No, I I think that's that's cool. And this is where it's you're running your own race race, and people want the outcome, but that you don't need millions and millions of views and subscribers. Every video for us, and like you want a great example, look at our channel. Our most recent videos, when I release them, they might get a thousand views, they might get two thousand views. People go, Oh, that subscriber to view ratio is out. There's different strategies on YouTube. Yes, and it's it's what what are your goals? Because you can make, I have met a creator who was making multiple six figures, and his channel was just over a thousand subscribers. That's insane. That's insane. So it we can do it, and views don't equal more impact. What if it's the views from the right people? You had a thousand people in the room that just loved it and you just bought everything you said or you know, hanging off every word. What's the experience you want to have?

SPEAKER_00 25:22

Yes, yeah, yeah. And I I actually have an uh an example of this. Uh, there were a couple of years back uh when I was coaching this creator, he lived in the UK and he was like, uh, talk about a niche of a niche. He was like a tax guy for like real estate, so it was like super super niche. Yeah, and I think he was getting like a hundred something views per video, and we only had to work together for like three months or so, and he went from like about 100 something video of views to about three, three fifty. Not a lot, right? And I remember the day he was like, Hey Travis, listen, I I can't really do the coaching anymore because I I I have too much business. I literally now I couldn't take on more people. Like if my views went higher, it would be too much. I'd have to hire people and I don't want to do that. So just from like 100 to 300, because we targeted super targeted the right people, and his business exploded, just like you were saying. It you'd be surprised. So, what are some of the like ways to make money with less uh with less views? So you don't have like these sponsors, these big sponsors coming to you offering you like a six-figure check. That's probably not gonna happen if you're if you're doing really low. But like, what are some ways that you can monetize realistically for like a smaller crew?

Building A New Channel From Zero

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Yeah, I love this question. And just for context with this too, like we don't do sponsored content on our channel, we don't have to do all the things. There's so many different ways that you can make money. For me, I personally like watching the videos where they're not sponsored. Yeah, and I'm not saying I I'm you know, each to each to their own. That is one of the best ways to make money from content, right? Where you're just paid to make it. So I'm I'm all for it. But for me, for me personally, if I had to say, here's the top microphones and thanks road for sponsoring this video, and there's road microphones that are all mentioned in the video. Like whether you're being you or not, the viewers are gonna think at some point maybe this was paid for this. That oh, it's funny that road was number one and number two. So I like that we can detach from that altogether. So I'd say always in terms of comes to monetization, um, have your non-negotiables. What is the feeling that you want to have for your viewers and the feeling you want to have when you make the videos? That's the most important, but always be testing stuff. We have done sponsored stuff where I was gonna make the video anyway. DScript was a great one. I'm like, hey, you want to partner up? I'm making about to show a video where I'm just geeking out on how awesome your AI editing is, and we use it. If you want to partner up, let's do it. And so I was gonna make that video anyway, and I was perfectly clear to them. I was gonna make this video. But what they what we ended up doing was making it a win for the viewer. So I partnered with DScript and they gave you a promo code to get something else, right? So this is we can make it a win for the viewer. So this is what I always come back to, no matter how you're monetizing. But for your question, um, affiliates is a great one. Yes, it starts small, but as it grows, your channel grows, it really starts to snowball. That's the biggest way that we make money on our channel is you know, I could say the top five live streaming tools, just my thoughts and opinions. And three of them might have an affiliate program and that video might get views for years. And that's kind of how it the main revenue piece on our business is. So I would recommend for people to start affiliate marketing from day one. Talk about the tools that you love, that you use, share your thoughts and opinions, your experiences on that, and start that moving. But the fastest way to make money, especially as a small channel, is trading your time for money. As in, uh, offer services that aren't necessarily scalable to get income in. Uh, so it could be that you're doing coaching, consulting around the things that you're talking on YouTube. That is normally the fastest and easiest way because you're not having to pitch a company or a brand, hey, come sponsor this, but I'm only getting a thousand views or something like that. Right. Uh, it's I can do this for you.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

Um, yeah. Yeah, and most people have a superpower that they they they have. Like maybe you're a gardener and you're just really good at gardening. Some people actually will pay for that. Um, maybe you're a carpenter and they're like, I want to do YouTube videos about something else. Well, you could still offer your carpentry experience uh and charge for that. There's lots of different ways to do that. Just be creative about it. And affiliates for those who don't know is because I remember before I was a creator, I didn't really know how affiliates work. It sounded like a weird word. I'm like, that sounds like some type of scam. Just to be clear. Yeah. For those who don't know, it's not a pyramid. It's not. It sounds like it might be, but it's not. So affiliate marketing is actually super simple. If I did a video about, say, this case on my phone, if you're watching the YouTube video, you can see the case of my phone. And I said out, and I actually liked it. I would put a link uh in the description from Amazon. They have an affiliate program, and that link would take the the create the customer to the website, to that particular product, and they would buy it. There would be no additional cost to the customer, but I get a percentage of that particular sale because I sent them there. And Amazon has some extra aspects to it where I get percentage of other things that they buy, even if it isn't the case, which is kind of cool. Yeah. And you know, different places have different percentages for those things. Uh, I had a really good deal with uh mint mobile at one point, which was really cool. So, you know, different companies have different things, and basically, if you have products that you use and you really like, it's a great way to make some money. And even Amazon has like a live streaming platform, so there's all these different ways of products that you use every day that you can talk about and make some money out of.

Shorts For Discovery, Long For Trust

SPEAKER_01 30:13

Not too bad. I think the Amazon side one is pretty cool. We talked about uh a lot of we're we're removing people's excuses to create content, right? So a cheap microphone, uh the Boya microphone. I am. And I think it's now$14, right? Everyone's got one. This is great. Yeah. Uh I still carry one in my backpack. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I still have it. So that microphone, when we do videos about that and have done, like one of the early videos on the channel was about that. That's how old this thing is. Old faithful. Um, that video, someone clicked the$14 microphone and then went and spent$30,000 on gym equipment on Amazon and we got the commission for the blood. So I'm like, well, this is and I'm just talking about a microphone. So then you're you're you become the traffic source to get someone onto Amazon, then it's their job to market to them or uh and get them to check out. But I mean, even where this works so well and why I love it so much is I don't need to sell. Right. I'm not, hey, I'm Justin, come buy my stuff. This is how awesome it is and how awesome I am. That's not me. I'd much rather say, here, here's the information, here's my experience with a product, and here's why you might like it. Here's the things I like, here's the things I don't like. Now go. And this is where, too, you can build really good relationships with companies and brands as well. So we use vidIQ to help us come up with our video topics and titles, not to make it about this. No, no, no. Uh, this is a great example. And so for us, it's not you need to go buy video queue. It's like, no, here's how we use it and here's why we like it compared to other tools, which makes it then a no-brainer for others who are in a similar place, similar uh viewpoint, go, oh, that makes perfect sense. I'll jump in. And we can then work out with them and build relationships with the companies where vidIQ gives our people an extra incentive or something as well. So it's really cool, win-win-win. It's a win for the viewer, it's a win for the company you're promoting, and that means it becomes a win for you. But you're only paid when it all lines up. So which is to me fantastic. I don't like it, it's your call whether you sign up or not. I'm just telling you what we're using. Right. So that's what I love about it.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

And when you become kind of an expert in a niche, people want to know what you're doing and using anyway, right? Like they want to, if they're if they're trying to emulate your success, they want to know the tools you're using and use them as well. So uh it's unsurprising that like if you have again, we'll go back to the gardening uh example, just because I think most people understand what that is. Um, you know, the different tools you have to garden with. Like you'd be surprised. You just use like a Home Depot or whatever affiliate program and say, This is the shovel I use, this is the the you know, the manure I use or whatever. Like this is the stuff. And then people want to use that thing to get what they've seen in your video. Like it's so easy for something like that. And again, it's you're not selling, like, oh, you have to go buy this. It's the people want to because they want to accomplish whatever it is in your video.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

And this is where I find the best ones are ones where people see it and they're like, oh, I wonder what gardening shovel that is. Right. I just want that one because they know that you're using it for a reason. It must be good. Exactly. Yes. So that to me is better than, hey, thanks, shovel brand, for sponsoring this video. Right. And look, you could do both. There's nothing wrong with it at all. But to me, I think when the viewers find out for themselves, oh, it's interesting there's got a road microphone on the desk. Oh, maybe I'll go to the description and see. Uh, because it must be good if he's using it. Uh, and then they find it themselves. They sell themselves on the thing instead of you selling it to them. It's really cool.

Avoid Early Analytics Obsession

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Exactly that. Exactly that. So super easy. One of the ways you can get into making money. Let's also talk a little bit about um niches. What are the niches that you're seeing right now? I mean, we've seen some weird. I saw I saw one the other day that was in the titling. Uh, it was a lo-fi channel, but it was like these this couple in like the middle of a forest doing like lo-fi music, and they they were like no AI, and they just kind of they were just kind of doing it, but they were like like having lunch or something. Like it was the weirdest, like they're out in nature. They're not it's not like they're trying to have a band going. They're lit, like, I think the the woman was like sewing or something, and the guy was like playing music. It was the weirdest vibe, but they were getting tons of views because it's so unusual. Can you remember like what you've seen recently that seemed like really unusual? That's like, oh, I I could have thought of that.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Okay, so the strangest one I've ever heard is and and this is crazy. Like it is the lady was in one of our programs. She had uh she was making clothes, pet clothes, but not just pet clothes. It was pet clothes specifically for hamsters. Uh that that was the niche. And so I think she went live and she was getting thousands and thousands of people on there. So this is a niche in a niche in a niche, not just you know, pets, pet clothing, like no, no, we're just talking hamsters. Crazy business off the back of it. So I think the idea is that you're probably not alone with whatever you're interested in. As niche as you think it might be, um, there's there's others out there that would have the same the same things. So you can really build your tribe, your community there around the stuff that you geek out on. And I think if we're coming from that place with the channel where it's fun for you, like what's the stuff that you would just be exploring and playing with? So for me, gear, tech, I love it. I'm testing new stuff all the time. Uh trying not to break stuff. Uh I just nearly broke something when we jumped on this one, plugging in different things and like, no, no, just leave it. Don't overcomplicate it. Don't blow it up. But I love this. So the channel's based around it, which keeps it fun and exciting. And I think if you're coming from that place instead of, oh, I need to make this type of a channel because this is what YouTube is pushing, I think that those days, no, it needs to be, if you're excited about it, your viewers can be excited about it. And it's crazy what YouTube can can help get views on.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

Totally, totally agree. Um, I guess uh probably one of the last things I want to talk about is the future of content creation. We talked a little bit about um, you know, AI and stuff and how that's probably going to change things. But from your perspective, what are the things that we as like content creating kind of coaches, teachers, whatever, need to be cognizant of in the next couple of years for new people coming onto the platform, trying to make themselves either the next uh big creator or even a business? What are the things we need to be? Because I never ask about like us. The thing is, I think it's super important for content creator teachers to to always be in touch with what's going on so that we can help the generation that we're trying to help, right? Um, but we know I never like self-check. What are some of the things you think maybe even I should be paying attention to uh when trying to teach the different ways to grow on YouTube?

Views, Goals And Real Success

SPEAKER_01 36:22

I think to me, the the most helpful thing for growing a YouTube channel from someone that was teaching how to do it and is obviously in in the trenches as well, like yourself, uh, is being mindful of how your experience on the platform as a viewer has changed and evolved and what are the types of things that are working for you. And it's it's if you can do that as a creator, that you're mindful of which videos you're gonna click on, which videos you're not gonna click on. And this is this is almost like observing yourself. Uh and you could probably do some sort of screen recording and then put it into AI and help me pull my viewing habits and and you can really pull this apart. I think just like Mr. Beast did when he was starting out. Like they he got really, really specific on what makes this engine turn. And the things that are changing with AI, viewing behaviors are changing. The fact that now TV content is such a big thing. What's your viewing behavior on TV versus on mobile versus on desktop? What where do you see your content going and how do you optimize it for the best experience for where most people would watch it? It's really being mindful about what you're enjoying on the platform, what you're not enjoying on the platform, so you can double down on the stuff to give people a good experience. Because if you have to grow, uh if you have to summarize what it takes to grow on YouTube or really any of the platforms, it's giving people a good experience. If they have a good experience, they're gonna keep watching, they'll keep coming back, and YouTube or the platform will see, oh, this person has good viewer experience, good watch time, good click-through rate, that they're gonna push it out more. So viewer experience is really the one thing, but it starts with you, not seeing what other people are doing. Oh, they made this video, that's only part the picture. Um, it's it's it's really looking at what is my mindset going into this. Why am I clicking this one and not this other one? Why am I turning this video off at this point? And I think that's only gonna be more and more amplified uh as things change so fast with YouTube. Already with viewing behaviors and the way people are watching since shorts came on board and live stream is being pushed more, the viewing behavior has changed. So we need to adapt and evolve with that.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

What's interesting, what you just said, actually sparked another question. Um shorts and mobile viewing, you know, skyrocketed over the last three to four years. And it seemed like for you know, while we're in the middle of it, it's like, okay, well, I guess that's where we're going. And then all of a sudden, weirdly, in the last year, television viewing went up, which is completely the opposite. It's longer form viewing, um, you know, it's obviously horizontal format, it's longer storytelling. You know, you can take a beat every once in a while. What do you think caused that?

SPEAKER_01 38:56

I think the need for uh more authentic human content instead of the polished stuff that we're seeing on Netflix, where there's it's scripted, it's cinematic, it's whatever. Like, I just want to hear what Travis is geeking out on now. And let's dive into that. Or the most unique fringe content that you're not gonna find on Netflix, but you can sit down on the couch and relax into it. So this is where I love YouTube as a platform. Uh, it's like the one place to rule them all because you can have success just doing shorts. You can have success just doing live streams or long form or whatever it is. So, this to me is like this I keep saying, this is the greatest time to start because you don't need to do them all. Right. You can just pick and stay in your lane and maybe experiment with some of the other things, but you don't need to do everything. You don't need to be everywhere. We've got a very small following in comparison everywhere else because we just went all in on one. It's so much easier than, oh, I need to post here three times a day, go live. Oh, that sounds horrible. I couldn't think of anything worse. How do we just have fun with what we're doing, but really stay in our lane? Because if you stay with it, um, either everyone else will give up and drop off, in which case you'll be successful, which is maybe, I don't know, uh, kind of what's happened. People just stop to it too soon. Um, or you'll really start to build that uh that momentum. And the more you do it, the easier it becomes, as with anything.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

Absolutely. Justin is someone I've known for a long time, Justin Brown with Primal Video. If you're new to listening to Justin, hopefully uh you dig him. There will be a link in the description with uh a connection right to his webs channel. And then also in the audio podcast, if you're listening there and you don't have YouTube pulled up, uh we'll put links in there too. So just uh click that and check him out. He's on the interwebs doing all the things, super successful channel, over 200 million views on YouTube, something that uh a very small percentage of people could say they've done. And uh something else that I greatly appreciate about Justin is that he's a great guy. So, Justin, thank you so much for joining us this week, man. I can't wait to see what happens in 2026. And now, and here's the thing we we've been talking, and the descript thing you've been talking about, I might have to go check it out. See, I've heard about it, but I've never used it before. I'm gonna go check it out. See how quick that was? You're the influencer.

Monetizing With Few Views

SPEAKER_01 41:07

This is uh, but this is the opportunity for everyone, right? What are you geeking out on that you're just pumped to talk about? Uh, because you're gonna have that excitement, that energy in there. And to me, that is one of the coolest things right now, helping people make videos faster. And uh, this is the perfect time. So no, thank you. Appreciate you and awesome hanging out. Love it. If you want to see more, there's links in the description, and we'll see y'all in the next one. All right, we did it.