James Black (00:00):
Welcome back to the Exchange for Entrepreneurs Podcast. I'm your host, James Black. In this week, we are going to talk about diversity, race, and social equity, and we're going to peel back some of the layers on why this matters not only on a human level, but at an economic level too. So, this week, I'm joined by Ray Williams from National Bank Financial. And Ray's career in banking has spanned decades, and we talk about the legacy he's working to achieve through national and organizations like the Black Opportunity Fund and 100 Strong. And for me, this discussion provides another opportunity for executives and investors alike to ask themselves a question of whether they're doing enough to investigate, encourage, and mentor talent from all backgrounds, to best position their firms with the best talent that'll bring their enterprises the most success.
(00:47):
And as you'll find through my conversation with Ray, there's a tremendous opportunity for economic growth if you can just create space for those that have traditionally found themselves on the outside, looking in. This might be the most thought-provoking discussion yet on this season of the Exchange for Entrepreneurs Podcast. So, without further ado, my conversation with Ray Williams. Welcome back, viewers and listeners. This is James Black, your host for the Exchange for Entrepreneurs Podcast. And today, I am honored to be joined by Ray Williams, vice chairman and managing director financial markets at National Bank Financial. And Ray, I want to kick right into it today. Give the listeners just a flavor of who you are, what you do at National Bank and elsewhere, and the legacy that you're trying to build.
Ray Williams (01:34):
Well, thank you so much, James, for this invitation. Glad to be here. So, as you mentioned, you know my name, I work at National Bank, been in financial services now close to 40 years. And really just a space that I've had the opportunity to grow in and a space that has allowed me to undertake and engage and support community along the way. So, more specifically, as I've mentioned, the job that I work in, I've been in capital markets, primarily focused on derivatives, engaging clients in a number of facet classes. So, bring to the table a bit of experience, if you will, that has in fact allowed me to be in a position where I'm operating as a senior relationship manager. So, the title, vice chairman, it simply speaks to the fact that with the experience I bring to the table, I have a particular purview, lens, and a Rolodex maybe that reflects engagement at a more senior level at this juncture in my career, in my life.
(02:42):
And so, knowing my organization fairly well after 18, 19 years here, the opportunity to look at internally how we engage with our clients and how we in fact either gain a greater share of wallet, create deeper and more meaningful relationships, and the like. All of those things represent something very special. So, that's the piece that represents and reflects the work that I do on a day-to-day basis. But over and above that, as you're well aware, corporate social responsibility, increasingly the push on ESG, especially S in ESG, has meant that there's been an interesting and wonderful crossover. So, whether you're looking at diversity and inclusion objectives or where we want to go as an organization and more importantly as a society in this regard, it means that there is an opportunity where what I'm doing here internally also reaches out to community.
(03:39):
I think recently speaking, most institutions, banks, or otherwise, have a desire to deliver to the communities that they're operating in. And so, with that, there is the corporate social responsibility areas that come out of the banks, whether it is around how they set up particular charitable engagement and supporting locally or further afield. So, that has given me an opportunity to help the bank both internally in terms of its expression and desire to embrace diversity, and externally in the way that it chooses to support the communities that it operates in.
James Black (04:22):
Right. And the banks being what they are, they're huge parts of everyone's lives. And there's only six of them in Canada. I would go as far as to say they have more of an onus on them to be a part or be at the front lines of those social responsibility missions. Would you agree with that?
Ray Williams (04:40):
I would say the answer is yes. I mean, finance touches the lives of everyone and ultimately how you are able to impact the society at large and those communities that you are operating in will go an awfully long way.
James Black (04:54):
Absolutely. Those watching, either you're watching this in February or just soon after, it is Black History Month. And I wanted to talk to you, Ray, about Black History Month, what it means to you. And I had a bit of a side question to that, which is a month enough. So, maybe just start with, what does it mean to you? Why is it important? And what are the advantages of having this month, but maybe some of the limitations?
Ray Williams (05:17):
So, let me start with the limitations. I would say there are 12 months of the year, the other 11 months of the year away from Black History Month, I'm still black. So, that's something we should just simply acknowledge. The importance of Black History Month is such that it has brought a bit of a spotlight onto the contributions that Canadians, black Canadians make to not just black history, but Canadian history, the participation of racialized groups, minorities, whatever it is that you want to use as a terminology to reflect those that are not necessarily in the majority, but still make a very important contribution. So, even as I say that, I look forward to the time when we're not celebrating Black History Month. Simply put, it will be really nice to have a situation where we're celebrating Canadian history and black communities and all other communities are fully embraced and embedded into the culture that represents Canada.
(06:25):
That's where I come from in that regard. So, yes, very positive in those that have stepped forth like Rosemary Sauvageau, in particular Gene Augustine, to get this acknowledgement and reflection of the wider aspects of Canadian society as it represents black. But personally, I think it'd be nice to get to that space where we're not talking about it from this singularity, but more from a plurality that represents Canada.
James Black (06:53):
Right. And it's not such a necessity. And it's not just a month where everyone feels obligated to talk about it and then forget about it, it's something that's ongoing.
Ray Williams (07:01):
Correct.
James Black (07:02):
That I can agree with. Now I wanted to dive in the topic of social justice. So, on some of the worst parts of the world that I've seen in the last few years have been the social injustices, the George Floyd situations. And I know in our prep call we've kind of talked around some of the things that this prompted as far as discussion. So, let's go back to the topic of social justice. Maybe just first, define, what sort of role do corporations play in furthering social justice in the social justice movement?
Ray Williams (07:33):
So, again, I go back to the fact that from a societal standpoint, you can't demarcate necessarily here's what a corporation does, and then here is what either government or society needs to do to impact society more generally. The bottom line is within corps, you have people who are part of that society. And so, either the purpose that they engage internally within the organizations they work for and how it impacts their lives outside those organizations, to my mind, it's almost impossible to demarcate. So, from a social justice standpoint, all I'm simply looking at all points in time is what does access and equity look like. I mean that's at a fundamental level what we are talking about, because quite often there are people with the appropriate skills.
(08:29):
I mean, goodness, I've been here in Canada 33 years this year, and I remember with such clarity some of the conversations I've had with taxi drivers who were substantially more educated than myself, from the perspective of either the languages they spoke, the degrees they carried, et cetera, but the access wasn't there. So, they were driving a cab. That's a huge, huge loss of what might be an amazing resource for Canadian society, delivering to Canadian society. How do we change some of that? How do we create the access that will allow for an equitable opportunity for individuals like that? And as I'm speaking from the perspective of a black person, my reality ends up being within black communities. How do we also create that kind of access?
(09:23):
And that kind of access, by the way, is not just about access to jobs where you know can earn well, we're talking about education. We are talking about health. We're talking about almost every single aspect that might be deemed major for anyone in the society where black communities quite often are challenged or do not have the same opportunity to access. So, that for me is what the whole reference around social justice and how we address all those issues. That's where I'm coming from.
James Black (10:00):
Absolutely. And one of the things we talked about again in our prep call was diversity and promotion of diversity just from within. So, you had mentioned that a lot of it starts just from having a discussion internally at your own companies and trying to understand the stories and the skills and the people available. And maybe if you take the time, you might realize you have internally a lot of people who could be part of the bigger picture, part of the C-suite. You just have to open the door and have that discussion. And I guess my question for you is, why is it so hard to have those discussions? Why aren't they happening enough? Because it's my opinion that they probably aren't.
Ray Williams (10:33):
Yeah. So, recently speaking, I would say that none of us like to be in a situation that represents discomfort. Conversations around race, diversity and inclusion creates discomfort. And it creates discomfort for the person that is initiating the conversation, quite often for the person hearing the conversation. So, you have a fundamental challenge. The other thing is that, if you happen to be an equity seeking group, then reasonably speaking, one would assume that those who are the host society, if you will, are the ones that have the power. And again, from a very fundamental perspective, you don't necessarily want to give up your power. But set that aside for a moment in terms of that particular dialogue and let's look at one that's maybe a little bit more positive that we can spin from that perspective of diversity and conclusion. And I will speak it from the perspective of financial services because that's where I operate.
(11:42):
And one of the fundamentals in investing is that you are told, you're taught like look, diversification should be of paramount importance for you, with your assets. Within financial services, and generally speaking, the corporate world, the greatest asset any institution has ends up being those individuals who work there. It literally is like your employees are your greatest asset. So, why wouldn't you take the opportunity for the purposes of diversification through approaches that represents in fact equity, inclusion, diversity, whichever way you want to, whatever narrative you want to create around it? But ultimately, looking at the richness that's available to you in terms of what could come to the table, number one, from ideas alone.
(12:38):
And number two, in terms of the different cultural aspects that are brought into the situation where thought processes does not represent suddenly group think, but you're now having ideas and approaches that have cultural merit, cultural aspects, cultural history that actually enriches the conversation. And the whole thing is, are we ready to listen? Are we ready to accommodate thinking that does not come from where we as individuals come from, but is coming from very different places to what we are used to? And that ends up being part of the challenge. So, those are the areas that I see that we really need to address and engage with in a more robust fashion to take this dialogue and conversation.
James Black (13:29):
Yeah, I can't agree with you more. I mean, I think the establishment does have the fear of cognitive distortion or dissonance where these new ideas might feel like a threat or the new faces might feel like a threat. And what you're saying is basically that it's far from it. It's actually prudent. It's to say, if you're not hearing from these people, if you're not including them in the discussion, the decision making, you're going to create blind spots. And when you look at immigration in Canada, I assume as a bank, we do as an exchange look at this opportunity and go, there's going to be a lot more people coming into the country that don't look like me, and how do we speak to them? How do we serve them? And it starts by engaging, right?
Ray Williams (14:05):
Correct. Look, the bottom line is that we have a very robust immigration policy here in Canada. And the reality is that we need to actually align some of that policy further down the spectrum, down the line, from the perspective of how do we take what's coming in and ensure that it's used in a manner that actually lifts the overall Canadian economy, lifts Canadian society. To me, part of that quite simply put has to be all about looking at talent from the rural perspective. Forget about race and ethnicity for a moment, what can that person bring to the table? And let me then bring it back to again, like Black History Month and the black condition as it were.
(14:59):
Think of how it looks if we have capabilities within communities that are not being tapped into. What are we missing out on in terms of those who might be leaders or those who might simply be able to contribute in a fashion that changes quite dramatically aspects of how we're undertaking business currently for the better? I think those things are really important considerations to have about good reasons why we should be embracing all those aspects of diversity.
James Black (15:36):
Absolutely. And it's a country of only just north of 30 million people competing on a global battlefield, so to speak. And you need to get as many people in the mix and extract their talents and utilize them to further both our economy and also people's own personal wellbeing. So, I think it's a huge challenge for us nationally to try to bring all these new people in and integrate them, but also empower them. And to that note about empowerment, let me ask you about 100strong.ca and that initiative here in Toronto. Is it just a Toronto initiative?
Ray Williams (16:11):
It has started off that way. And for the time being, I would say that is the case. But there are a couple of interesting initiatives that I'm involved in, the other one being Black Opportunity Fund. But let's speak to this one first, because I mean they're all near and dear to my heart, but this one, in terms of 100 Strong, it was a response to something I just alluded to a moment ago. So, there was a report that came up I believe in 2010. And the report essentially stated that something like 38.7 or 38.9% of black boys within the GTA were not graduating high school. I mean, for me, where education is key and education has provided me with a roadmap to what might be deemed successful, certainly to where I am today, and something that I've held onto very dearly.
(17:10):
And it's important to me just from almost every aspect because I believe it is an amazing leveler in so many respects. This could not be. And I had the good luck to have a relationship with a gentleman called Justice Donald McLeod and another one called Ainsworth Morgan. And those two started off 100 Strong and I was able to join them on the journey. And the journey was, rather than waiting for government to respond to this report, which was horrific from where I sat, think about it for a moment, 38, almost 40% of black boys not graduating from high school. Think about the lost capability. Was there a Steve Jobs potentially in that grouping that could have taken us to another level in technology or in the arts or whatever it might be?
(18:06):
But more importantly, if you do hold education as important, and I go back to the notion of access and equity, creating that we had to do something. And so, we set up 100 Strong. And 100 Strong really was just simply focused on how can we convey and communicate to young black boys their possibilities. And we did that through a summer school of experiential learning each July. And we started off in our first year where we graduated 16 boys, working in conjunction with the TDSB. 10 years later, I'm happy to say that we're now working with four school boards. Durham came on board in 2016. Halton and Peel came on last year. They wanted to come on the year before, but we just did not have the capacity at a time of COVID. But they came on last year. And since 2012, we've been graduating more and more and more boys. And we've extended a program from a three week to a four week program that now involves one week of camp where the boys have the opportunity to create lasting friendships.
(19:23):
And the core mantra for our boys is that there will be excellence without any excuses. That is important around understanding that at all times you are striving for excellence. So, if you want to make a grilled cheese sandwich, make it a damn good grilled sandwich with good excellence. But it's important, because it's a mindset thing. But the fundamental aspect of what is 100 Strong, is that we put our boys and show them their possibilities in other black men in a variety of industries. So, whether it be finance when they bring them down to Bay Street and take them into the trading room at Beamer, another trading room. And Adele Commander, who is probably the most senior black executive in Canada who runs Beamer Wealth. And sits as probably the first black Canadian on an executive management committee for a major bank.
(20:22):
They get the chance to see someone that is like them. Or we take them over to the CBC and Nick Davis, who's been an executive producer there for many, many years, we take them over to the Raptors not to see the players, but to allow them an opportunity to see who the administrators are in the back office and so on and so forth. And this gives them a clear sense of what their possibilities might look like. And we grab these boys at a very important age, because we grab them from grade six to grade nine primarily. And so, the program has been billed in, and now we are generally speaking, graduating anything between 80 and 95 boys over the summer. And I will tell you the difference between when they come into our program and when they leave that program, it is a substantial thing.
James Black (21:15):
That's phenomenal. And thank you for sharing that. I guess my last question is back to your legacy. I mentioned that my first question, which was, what do you want to leave behind and how do you know when you've succeeded in that or at least made progress? Because I think you're a purpose-driven person and I want to know or give you opportunity just to share what you think it is that you're building towards.
Ray Williams (21:38):
So, purpose is a good word. And I think over the years I've found purpose around my life. There's a lot of things that I get engaged in. So, CAUFP, which is the Canadian Association of Financial Professionals, I had the good luck and pleasure of being one of the founding presidents back in 1996, 1997. Being around Bay Street, think of it as blacks on Bay Street, it's been around 25 years now. To me, that represents an important discourse and something that is an effective change around how black people within Bay Street have been able to move ahead. So, if you want to talk about legacy, it's been able to know that you're helping create change that has impact for the long term. Black Opportunity Fund, which we started in 2020, that was really all about how do we lift the black community while lifting and pointing out that this is not a zero-sum. Because we are doing stuff here, doesn't mean it's taking away from anyone. And it's not binary.
(22:47):
In fact, you have to walk away from and challenge people on the scarcity mentality, because quite often that's how people feel that, oh, well, if the black community is receiving X, then we are missing out somehow. And all I would say is that this is an opportunity for us to narrow the wealth gap, provide people with more share of wallet, and that actually leads to greater consumption, increase in GDP. There's a whole bunch of very positive aspects that can come out of society. So, when you ask about legacy, for me, purpose and purpose driven, and that purpose is as we spoke about, social justice and inequity. And if I'm able to lay some of the groundwork, recognizing that there are many things that I'm involved in that I'll probably pass on. But in my short time here, I would've carried the torch and hopefully be able to pass it onto the next person, the next generation that will allow them to continue the work.
James Black (23:55):
That's amazing. No, thanks, Ray. Very well said. And with that, I think I just want to thank you. I want to thank you for your thoughts and for your efforts and for the work that you do. And at the Canadian Securities Exchange, we're proud that you came on the show today to share your thoughts.
Ray Williams (24:15):
Well, I appreciated the invitation and a total pleasure having this conversation with you, James.
James Black (24:16):
Absolutely. Okay, well, thanks again, Ray. And again, this was the Exchange for Entrepreneurs podcast. I was your host, James Black with Ray Williams, and for more information about Black Opportunity Fund or 100 Strong or Ray himself, I've put notes down below. Thanks again.
Ray Williams (24:32):
Thank you so much.
James Black (24:32):
Thank you again for listening to the Exchange for Entrepreneurs podcast, a proud presentation from CNSX Market, Inc, operator of the Canadian Securities Exchange. As a reminder, the viewpoints on the show do not reflect those of the exchange and are solely those of the guests and do not constitute investment advice. For more information about the exchange of services and listed companies, please visit ww.thecse.com. Until the next show, thank you for listening, and don't forget to hit the like or subscribe button on your favorite listening platform. Thank you so much.