The Music Industry Podcast
The Music Industry Podcast
How to Make it on Your Own in Music | From Studio Runner to David Guetta Collabs | Gio Damiani
Welcome back to the Music Industry Podcast hosted by Bersamo. Today we're joined by Gio Damiani, who we know from a few projects we've worked together. We worked on Fastboy, we worked on Altego. You've got some really cool artists on your roster. Thank you, james Carter. Yeah, good boys.
Speaker 2:Any others. Fastboy, altego, and now we have a bunch of new ones as well, uh, with the new merch that we did, um aya anna molly yk koi, um a bunch of others yeah, you've got, you've got a lot, yeah, some big numbers as well.
Speaker 1:These guys, yes, we're quite lucky, yeah yeah, where did it all start with it? Did you jump straight in and start so managing us well?
Speaker 2:it depends. Uh, yes, I started. I started as an intern in Los Angeles for a company called Fontana Distribution, which is an arm of Universal, and then I did an internship there. I couldn't get hired full time because an entry level jobs without a visa I couldn't I couldn't get hired and so they helped me meet some people here in London and I started working at a studio not too far from where we are now in Kensal road called Kensaltown, and I was started kind of like a studio runner there making coffees and photocopies and work my way through to um getting an actual job and I was kind of running the studio and I was working for this manager called mike dixon.
Speaker 2:We're working with a bunch of writer producers um. The two big ones were um martin terefe, and during that time we did like jason moraz I'm yours and which is now diamond in the us. He was at the time I think he was nominated in the top 10 producers in the world by billboard. It was crazy times, super talented um producer writer, um. And. And then there was this other one, a big writer called Sasha Skarbek, who wrote You're Beautiful by James Blunt, cold Shoulder by Adele. During the time we were together he did Wrecking Ball by Miley Cyrus Without you by Lana Del Rey, and started all of that and yeah, and then from there I started kind of creating my my own little roster, uh, mainly taking the scraps of what the big producers or right producer and writers, um, would turn down or trying to, and with them. Then I started developing artists and started to do my first record deals with the artists that I manage and then slowly, slowly, kind of things slowly picked up.
Speaker 2:When you say you started like developing them did that work in the early stages, because surely you didn't have too many contacts at that point to be able to like put them in sessions with good artists and things like that well, I had the studios because I was working at this studio and most of the times, basically a lot of the musicians and assistants of the big producers, um, were looking for work, and so I started kind of to manage them. Uh, giving you know, a lot of times maybe, um, some of the big producers would turn down a job and I would tell the person who offered us, offered us the job, but I say, but the next best thing is the people who do all the work with him and it's going to cost you a fraction of that and why don't you give them a chance? And some people said yes, some people said no. And then once I started developing my relationship with these producers, like my little roster, when I would find new artists and I mean at the time time we're still talking about my space and actually going to gigs I used to go to gigs around this area a lot of times and kind of fine artists, and then what I could offer was free studios sessions, writing sessions with these talented writer producers.
Speaker 2:So that was very, was very appealing for a young, unsigned artist. And that's how I started and slowly I was kind of creating my role as a manager, plus, during that time I still had contacts because of the bigger producers. That kept me very current, because I would go see all the labels to get work from them and so I would still have access to the labels to try and sign these new up-and-coming artists. That I did. I remember. Once I found these I was at Midem, which is again shows that have been around for a bit.
Speaker 3:It's not around anymore Midem.
Speaker 2:It still is, it may be not. You know, there was a proper, proper, proper thing at the time, like all of the industry was there. I'm not sure it's the same now. I think it's maybe more for publishers and rights owners and catalogs and stuff like that. At the time it was like every music industry executive would would go and I remember I was walking down between one of the hotels that we were doing and I found these guys playing um, it was a german guys called abby then became one of the first, the first band that I actually ended up signing. Uh, I invited them to London. They stayed, they were German. They stayed two months in my apartment sleeping on the floor, five of them, uh, and I didn't have a big apartment, but I invited them to London. They stayed in London apartment but I invited them to London. They stayed in London.
Speaker 2:We did all the album um, and I ended up signing them to BMG for publishing and then Universal in Germany at um, yeah, talking about 18 years ago maybe something like that, and that was my first signing. So eventually kind of worked and, uh, I'm still very good friends with them. It, the band didn't do as much as we hoped for, but they ended up being very successful electronic artists. Um, and yeah, we're still good friends. I still go to berlin and meet up with them and, uh, you know, it's very common that you become very you know. You spend a lot of times with your clients, who are all young or were, and so you end up becoming really good friends and they're still, you know, yeah, really really good friends of mine. So that's kind of how I got my foot into one thing and started to create others.
Speaker 1:Did you just then work up in a way where you were signing bigger artists, or were you still working at a stage where you wanted to help develop them, or were you in a position where you could sign bigger artists?
Speaker 2:I mean, I was a position where I could develop artists. I had access to big producers, access to great studios and contacts within the industry. I didn't have the shoulders, let's say, backed up in order to be able to get directly big artists from the get-go. No, I was mainly having to develop them and work my way through, mainly having to to to um to develop them and work my way through. However, because I was working with um, you know, with michael and martin and sasha and all those guys, um, they, they were working with big artists and so I was kind of getting the, the credits through through that, so I could go to um, uh, you know, atlantic, and bring um an artist to them and uh, and, and then they would choose.
Speaker 2:I mean, I remember once, actually, we had just um, martin had just done, uh, the Jason Mraz first album. I mean it wasn't his first, but it was called we Steal, we Dance, we sing, we dance, we steal things, and it was massive, massive, massive album and including I'm Yours, and he was getting ready to work the second album for Jason Mraz. And again, I was a mid-em and I met with Ben Cook and Ed Howard who proposed to bring to Martin proposed to me to bring to Martin a guy called Ed Sheeran. That I did bring to Martin and Martin turned down because he was too similar to Jason Mraz.
Speaker 1:We've heard this with Ed Sheeran, because we spoke to Joe from.
Speaker 3:Warner Joe.
Speaker 1:Kentish and he had the same thing where he went to a gig, saw Ed Sheeran and was like I don't think I'm going to sign him yeah it's so, I guess, fate though things just happen. It is what it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean and also for me, I mean it's nobody's fault like at the time, was still doing something a little bit different. He had a bit of like the scatty, rappy thing, um, and obviously jason had just come up from this massive, massive success and I understand that you know, a producer wants to protect, you know, some artists and not not make everyone sound like the same. And nobody, nobody could know that. You know that would become one of the biggest artists in the world. And also, like what we would do? We would just go to labels, get a bunch of artists and literally go, have literally a minute and a half per artist. They're like do you want to work with this, this, this, this, play him a song? And they would say yes, no, yes, no. So it is what it is, but yeah, it was quite funny to say so. Yeah, you sometimes win and sometimes lose, but so I did have access and was working with big artists. I wasn't managing them myself, but I was working with clients who were working with big artists.
Speaker 1:So from that point to where we are now, where, like your artists are getting really strong numbers, they're touring the world- yeah. Was there like a breakthrough artist that led to you being able to sign bigger? Or was it like each one was sort of like a stepping stone into the relationships you built?
Speaker 2:I think, more of a second, more like I've never had like an artist that I took and blew up within you know X amount of time and it's always been like you know, this year is better than last year, this year is better than last year, this year. And all of a sudden like wow, I'm actually doing all right.
Speaker 1:You've got two boats.
Speaker 3:I've got two boats yes, I've got two boats In the same location, in the same city, by the way.
Speaker 2:Same city, same location. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but it was so. I was always a hard worker. Always, I did have loads several times, moments where I also thought that I was going to quit. I've been independent since 2011. Like, I opened my first company in 2011. And since then I've done consultancies. I've done whatever.
Speaker 2:I always started the year not knowing how much money I would make and not having that security or this and that Plus, I had my son, um, who was born in Milan in 2012. Literally, I'd started my business a month after my girlfriend at the time tells me that she's pregnant, wants to move back to Milan at the time, tells me that she's pregnant, was to move back to Milan. So I was unemployable for anyone here in in in in the UK because I wanted to go see my son and all of that. So I always believed that things would have worked out. I didn't know how, but I was always very confident that you know you can only be unlucky so many times and at some point something will go If you're in the right space, you're with the right artists, you're in the right environment, and it's always kind of like yeah, as I said, I kept on, always looking back.
Speaker 2:I tried at the beginning. I was comparing myself with other people and sometimes it can be constructive, sometimes a bit unhealthy, and I think things changed when I started comparing myself to myself, as in like what you know, you know, compared to last year, I've done this, this and that compared to the year before, and so on. And so I always managed to then make achievable short term and long term goals that I could almost touch and I knew that I would be able to to achieve, instead of thinking I'm going to find this guy and tomorrow is going to be Chris Martin, which is a little bit all over the place, I've turned okay, well, with what I've got, I think next year I can do this. And then all of a sudden, I started to notice, okay, you know, this started to puff off, this started to puff off this, and then with that, I was then at this level where I managed to then get proposed bigger clients that then I started to, to to manage yeah, because you're managing like quite similar sounding artists now yeah, it's it, it's a, it's um.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's. It's in a style I don't know why. All of you know.
Speaker 1:I'm brothers. Half the time I'm brothers, I'm duos.
Speaker 2:You know I'll take all our twins fast boy, our brothers good boys is a duo.
Speaker 1:I thought you were just really picky with what you took and you were like you need to be a duo, you don't have any duos, by the way.
Speaker 3:You know who to call. The comment section's just flooded with duos now. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:I don't know, it kind of happened that I ended up getting yeah duos.
Speaker 3:Do you think it's just the contacts and the circle and things like that? You end up kind of going down an avenue where everyone's kind of in that same circle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean stylistically they're all different from each other, like Altego musically are different than Fastboy or Good Boys or James Carter. Although James Carter and Fastboy had their first break on the same song, bad Memories, stylistically they're different. I still try and find clients that are can live with each other and not compete albeit they're all in the dance space and all of that but they you know Fastboy write 100% of their own songs. Very rarely get any outside songs. Same thing with Good Boys.
Speaker 2:Actually, good Boys and Fastboy did a collab years ago, which is how I started to meet Good boys at the time. But I wasn't managing good boys at the time and and yeah, and so things kind of kind of happened. As I said, if you're, if you're doing things right and you're good to people and you work hard and you keep going and you're confident, and, as I said, I've had plenty of moments during this journey where I interviewed with other people or thought to quit the music industry. I think that's it comes with any entrepreneur, you know, one day you're top of the world and the day after you want to quit. But I think that's also the same thing. It's kind of like the same the the other side of the same coin. The thing that wakes you up in the morning for excitement is also the thing that doesn't make you fall asleep for anxiety.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so true yeah but it's that thing and some people are. I also noticed that I'm more an entrepreneur and, for the type of person that I am, I kind of jump without a parachute and then figure out how to do it. So far it's been all right, but there's other people that instead and it's okay. There's not right or wrong answer there's other people instead where it's maybe you know. They want to know how much money they make at the end of the year. They go to their job, they do their thing and you know everyone is different. I personally think I would not perform in the same way.
Speaker 1:Do you think you attract artists that kind of are quite similar in that way?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Where they, they want to experiment and they want to kind of are very entrepreneurial and want to work hard to I also try to make all of my clients entrepreneurial as well.
Speaker 2:So, uh, you know, whether it's start their own label or whether how to manage their own money or I don't usually handle my clients' money, but I help them. You know, understand about investments, like publishing deals should not be money, should not be the money that you use to live as a songwriter, for example. I try to help them to live through, you know, production deals or or you know more day-to-day kind of smaller income and instead try and keep uh, because, at the end of the day, if you have a client that is strapped for cash, it makes it difficult for them to do their job. It's not easy to to to, to work with someone who's and also yourself.
Speaker 2:If you're strapped for cash and you're thinking, if you're worried about money, you can't really uh, especially in this industry, be 100 focused on on what you're doing. Also, because we're in such a crazy unpredictable uh, unplannable uh, you can do all the plans you want and do all the you know projections, but at the end of the day, like, it's never what you plan Right. So, um, yeah, we try and make them um, entrepreneurial and and and understand you know, uh, what you're dealing with and at the end of the day, it's always them making the decision, though you know you can. You know some people want the big money on the major label. Some people want to go slower but then build their catalog, but then they own a hundred percent of it depends. It depends by the case by case.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because some of your artists are signed and some aren't, are they?
Speaker 2:I mean, yes, they're all they. They all work with labels. Some are long-term deals with majors, but it works for them because they need, first of all, the team, the infrastructure. They work with massive collabs, artists that come with a price. They need help on money for socials, for example, or stuff like that, and so it works for them. Plus, they want to maybe buy a big house, and so a publishing deal will do that Um. Others instead, uh, are more selective, so they maybe have their own label.
Speaker 2:That James, for example, has his own label. He started way before me. I have nothing to do with it, but he has a. James Carter has a really successful label called lily era and he, you know, does, I think, over half a billion streams a year. It's crazy, and he's done it all on his own. I've nothing to do with it. And, if anything, when I started my own label, I kind of like because I always worked with labels with a man, you know, as a manager you do everything, but this time I was like on the other side and if anything, I was going to him for advice on on that, um, but yeah and but some of them basically instead, you know, select.
Speaker 2:We always try to have a purpose of what, why we're doing something. So we might want to work with one label because we want help on streaming, one label because, uh, we're doing a collab with one other artist, one label because, uh, they're particularly good at something, or or because we want to play live, a certain uh area, um of live, and some labels help in one way. So it depends. Obviously, being um independent allows you to um to be nimble, so if things go, you can. You can then license it to a major later, or not, or um.
Speaker 2:But I also have to say that my experience with my clients it's not I guess it's not for everyone but with my clients signed to longer term um record deals. You know I've always had a good like with fastboy, for example, like um virgin has always been super supportive of them, um, whether it's them, you know, doing a collab with david getta and oliver helton's on ministry and and or doing some of the club records or the testo collab on musical freedom, that they've always um supported the opportunities that that we've had. We we've never had any any, any bad, bad relationship in that. But we also make sure to take care of them and make sure to be also very respectful not to take the pace like it's kind of like, it's a bit of a um, and we've delivered them. You know several radio hits that we're all happy, uh, so you know yeah, there'll be lots of listeners wondering, like how you get that?
Speaker 3:like david guetta collab, like could you talk us through, like how that came about? Because, uh, obviously you took on fast boy early in their career and now they're doing incredibly well. How did that come out? Was it virgin who arranged that it?
Speaker 2:yourself. So that particular record was okay. Most of the times when we have big collabs it always starts from the song. So most of the times in that case, I mean in any case. But in that case specifically, Fastboy had this record and I originally sent it to Atlantic Warner in the States to get as A&R, who replied to me and saying, yes, I like it, maybe change the lyrics here and there. And I was trying to get some feedback from him to actually be like, okay, sure, what do we have to change? But when you start asking too many questions you're off to the next one. So I wasn't getting much of an answer with that.
Speaker 2:Uh, oliver heldens had heard the record, started working on it and then I was weirdly enough with the fast boy in riad to meet tiesto, because we were doing, we were doing um, we were doing the content for the tiesto single that was coming up before um, and oliver heldens was there, and so we reconnected all together and um and then um, we sent it to the managers of getta with um, uh, oliver Heldens manager, we started to kind of put the record together, um and uh, and eventually, yeah, we ended up being a record that we put out with ministry. Oliver Heldens ended up being first, so it was Oliver David and uh, and fast boy and uh, yeah, and it was funny. And then it's kind of like ended up with me going with the guys to Ushuaia and with Oliver Heldens to play the record live with David Guetta and it was a lot of fun that part. But to answer your questions, 100% of the time is my clients have written a song. The big DJ or big artist, big singer, wants it, and because we control the copyright of that song, I'm in agreement with all the other writers.
Speaker 2:By the way, it's not that we, um, you know, everything is planned. There's a reason why we're doing it. Most of the times we'll be like, okay, this, why don't we do a song for you know XYZ, marshmello or something or whoever, and then we do that with that in mind. And then, when and if the artist decides that he wants it, we're like, yeah, sure, but if you want it, you know we would love to do it as a collab. Sometimes it goes ahead, sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 2:It also depends. Like Fastboy, for example, they have incredible vocals and a lot of times, even if someone even and now they've got a profile, you know a very big profile, so people want them because it's them. But before you know, we've had times before I'm not gonna say who or what, but we had times before when, like a big dj would, would want a song and, uh, would try and get like a bigger singer to to do it and it didn't either sound as good or work. Plus, a big part of this is the mojitas that once you start to get used to a song and the vocals of someone, like you get demoitis and at the end of the day, even if there's someone else singing that, you kind of are in love with original version and so it came back. So most of the time is is is for that. And then obviously, once the artists get to a certain level, you know there's a reason why someone wants to do a collab with Altego. We've had, I think, 11 number one Instagram audios since January this year.
Speaker 2:So if it's the right song, they can really help make it go viral, and so there's a reason why they would want them. There's a reason why someone would want Fastboy, if they want to get German radio, for example. They're perfect. We're always trying to do collabs that make sense with everyone, but at the very beginning is the hardest part.
Speaker 1:Did you? In the beginning was it very much people saying no or people saying like we will for a fee, were there?
Speaker 2:things like that it's a bit of a mixture. I remember, with heartbreak anthem, for example, um, I manage, uh, this writer producer called yk coy, who, um, we've been working together for eight years and at the time I was co-managing them with tyyard and we were doing a camp for Galantis. And um, harbour Canton was originally written with four people, of whom two I managed, uh, yk and Lorenzo, and um, it ended up having I think something like 17 writers. Um, by the end it came down and you know they went down from my clients that had 50%. It ended up going down to like 16. But that 16 still bought them a house and it was their first big, big, big, big, big cut and we needed to have a big credit in order to then go get more work later. And so you were kind of it's, you know, and without one you don't have the other.
Speaker 2:So, but I remember at the time we were literally trying to get anyone to collab on the song, like we got Saint who's the A&R of Galantis. A really good friend of mine had sent an email to Getta with the song and he said this is Galantis record, would you want to do a collab? He replied saying I like it, which wasn't really a commitment, but it was enough for me and Saint to just start powering through with everyone. There's this Geta collab that we were looking for and you know we proposed that record to literally anyone. We proposed it to Miley Cyrus At some point, tones and I was possibly going to do it, and then didn't Proposed it to Ellie Goulding, to Noah Cyrus, to I don't remember If I look Pink and Zara Larsson, a bunch of other people, and it just didn't work out in one way or another. And then we got Little Mix to cut it and at the time Little Mix it was before they had that number one album.
Speaker 2:So at the time for us, little Mix compared to maybe Ellie Goulding or Miley Cyrus, so the other thousands of people that we asked were maybe not as great in a way, but in reality turned out to be perfect timing because they in the meantime had a number one album three months before we put out, uh, heartbreak anthem, and in that case that I wasn't even managing galantis nor david getta nor, nor len little mix is that.
Speaker 2:That was kind of like the moment where I actually switched the way that I'd weigh in our angle.
Speaker 2:So for my producer writers because basically we we don't manage any of these artists, but we own the song in a way, and the only way to compete with the other songs that these big djs have is to basically help the manager and the label to find the features so that your song is on the top of the pile and not at the bottom and um, and that way you're also quite quite in the know what's going on, because most of the times before I was like pitching a song to someone.
Speaker 2:They would accept it, get stems, and then I would you know every couple months hey, how's it going, is there a bounce? Hey, how's it going, is there a bounce? And then to find out 10 months after that they say, oh sorry, we've decided to pass. And then you know, this happened quite a lot, and so that with with harvey canton and how that thing went, that's how we switched the way of how we in our records, even if we don't manage the artist and I think that also helped me a lot, being more and more present with managers, labels and all of that and then allowed me to be involved in big records.
Speaker 1:That then allowed me to start getting big artists, and all of that Because you still do a lot of songwriting camps and things now on the boat, don't you?
Speaker 2:All the time we still do a lot of like songwriting camps and things now on the boat. Yeah, all the time we do one or a minimum one, probably two, and I'm thinking of doing probably even more than that.
Speaker 2:Two camp we probably do. Half of the months is camps. Um, we've got two boats, four recording studios. So if you think about it like if you do someone comes to us and does a camp with us, they'll have minimum 20 songs at the end of the week. Most times they do more than two songs at a time.
Speaker 1:Is the aim to have all your artists, or as many as you can, come to the boats, write with new writers and producers and everything, and just develop it depends.
Speaker 2:I mean, I've done camps for for the artists themselves, like I've done camps for fast boy, camps for altego, james carter, etc. We're doing one with good boys as well, but other times we do that for the label or for another artist, um, and at that point we have some of our roster and then we invite. You know also the fact that we've got, you know, these boats that are pretty unique, the environment is very nice to be in and different. You know, we have the luck of having a a strong writer producer roster, a strong artist roster, and and the location. If you then have the right camp, whether it's with the right label or an artist in the room or, um, you know, or the anr or the more, the producer, so there's a purpose. The combination of all of this usually attracts, you know, some, some of the best writers in the uk, and then they tend to come back, uh, one, because they have a good time. Two, because if you're in the, you know if, if, if we, if we have do a camp that has a purpose, um, and we get some of the best writers in the UK all in the same rooms. You know, even if at the end of the day. You don't cut all the songs that you do for the artists, you know you can only or the label, they can only take so many. They don't take 100% of them, but the fact that because of that reason, you got together in the same room, great writers and great artists, you will get a good song, I think that can work for someone else if it doesn't work for that.
Speaker 2:So we always try to prioritize having the right rooms and the right songs.
Speaker 2:Most of the times we try to have in, at least in one of the studios, someone that we manage or publish. Uh, but again, we, we still prioritize the room. Um, and so if, if, if, for some reason, things need to be moved, uh, it's not ideal from a business perspective, but yeah, we prioritize the record and the rooms and we prioritize having people coming and delivering great songs and enjoying themselves, and, yeah, and then the business side follows, but we try to have at least a person that we manage or publish in the room. Sometimes we have three. That you know, it depends, but we're not greeting that way like if, if a room is better, you know, we also know all the writers and all the producers and all the singers, because the industry is not that big in the end, you know, we always prioritize having a balanced room where you get the best um results, rather than being greedy and having to have all the people that we, because otherwise you're not going to do anything with that song anyways.
Speaker 3:So all your artists seem to be very good at social media. It seems to be a big priority for you. Is that now changed to be a big factor in what you're looking for? To sort of sign slash, manage an artist?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, um, it's a learning curve, also on our side. Uh, some artists are better than others, but, uh, you know, for me, I'm 40 years old and you know, I have to admit that to three or four years ago, you know, when my girlfriend was on TikTok, I hated it. When my girlfriend was on TikTok, I hated it. This being said, I also, at some point, realized that I was hating it because I didn't understand it.
Speaker 2:I'm still not at all a person who is posting about themselves. Or you look at my Instagram, it's mainly every Friday, the releases that we've got out. Every once in a while there's something personal, personal, but most of the times is is not. I'm not the type of person who would, um, you know, post a story, hey guys, and guess where I'm going today? It's just not my nature. I'm, but I'm not an artist, right? Um, one thing that I've noticed is that there are people who have it within them and people who have it less and um, and it's a completely different skill set. So what we try to do is pair those up. So there might be a really good dj singer who's incredible at socials, or actually maybe doesn't even have that many followers to begin with, but has that thing of constantly posting, constantly going on a thing he has, the he or she has, that you know. I don't want to say shameless, but in a way it's shameless, as in like, especially at the beginning if you don't have results yeah you tend to be demotivated or you feel feels a bit cringe just like, unapologetically themselves on social, which is very hard to find
Speaker 1:especially in those early stages exactly.
Speaker 2:Obviously, once you have loads of followers, you know it's different. But when you've got 500 followers and you're like, hey guys, how's it going? Like, of course you're gonna have your friends saying cringe, and stuff like that. Like I was watching an interview I think it was john summit that says, yeah, it was cringe until it was not, or something like that. Don't quote me exactly on it, but it something like that, um, and so we've noticed that and so we try.
Speaker 2:And when now we're talking about developing artists, we still develop artists um, we do it in a different way. We we prioritize, you know, either someone who's great, great voice, great writer, or, um, someone who has that that, as we said, unapologetic um, um, confidence. Uh, you know that they'll do it with or without you. They're going for a um, and then we'll get them with some of our writer producers that are maybe more studio geeks, uh, and, um, you know, have that skill set of you know, a producer might listen to the same uh kick for two hours to find the right sound or whatever. And I think that way we're trying to merge the two things so we can help write songs to people that have a lot of followers Sorry who are good at socials to then hopefully build the followers and try and do it like that. We try and adapt it a little bit.
Speaker 1:How's that going for you, because it's obviously quite a new thing.
Speaker 2:I mean it's a hit and miss in a way, as I guess you said you can't teach someone how to do social.
Speaker 1:No, but can you give them a good song and it works.
Speaker 2:Not necessarily. But if you, we're trying stuff out in one in one way, um, we don't know what works, and sometimes there's also I mean, you guys know it more than I do Like sometimes you try stuff until you find the format that works and then, when there is the format that you work, you repeat it. Um, so it it depends. The answer is it depends. Like there's been moments where I'm 100% sure that this is going to blow up and it doesn't, and other moments where I get a call of something that I completely forgot about, that all of a sudden I've done nothing for it. It's working, so it depends, it depends, so it depends, it depends.
Speaker 2:But the most exciting thing for me is that I need to be excited about what I'm doing and whether it works or not, the process of doing it. If I enjoy it, I think half of the job is done. And by applying this mentality with basically everything that I do, it's okay, because some things go and some things don't. I carry the same way of all of them and I'm excited in the same way, and so in the process, I'm really excited about doing them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, you're friends with a lot of your roster, so it means that you want to get behind it and help them as much as you can, which makes the job so much easier yeah, but also like coming up with ideas or having someone helping us coming up with ideas, and like sitting down with my roster and be like, okay, so we're gonna get him to write this song, you guys are gonna do this. This is the idea of the content that we try, obviously, in the process of doing it, I am believing that this is gonna work out then. Sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it doesn't, but there's an excitement, like when you come to the boats. There's an excitement about it, the community that we built with it, you know, with the songwriters and the artists and the studios and the young executives. Like there's a buzz to it and I think that is incredibly important because you know, as we said, like some things work, some things don't, but like being able to continue the volume and, and, um, you know, learning from your mistakes and all of that.
Speaker 2:If you keep on being excited of going to work and working with the people that you've got around you and the clients that you have, you know things will work out at some point. Keep going, keep going, keep going and things will go. You don't know what, but something will, and I and if you enjoy the process, you're sure I am 100. Sure that it's going to work out because I'm just doing it. So yeah, but I don't have a formula.
Speaker 1:I wish I did yeah, I think everyone wishes, I wish I had a formula that's kind of killed.
Speaker 3:My next question.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask what's your formula.
Speaker 3:What I was going to ask is where do you push the music to? What's your priority, like you said? Is it just like seeing what works, is it a case of prioritizing, like getting editorials, or is it more socials for you? Is there an area which you favor?
Speaker 2:Again, it depends by artist. Like there's some artists that we know it's going to be a radio song. Uh, especially for certain territories, like in germany, most of the times there is kind of like um style that you know when you listen to a song like we think that this would work well for radio, we think this song would work well on streaming. So let's focus on DSP support, let's focus on getting a collab with a right artist that can help with streaming, et cetera, et cetera, others. Instead, this can work well on socials, other songs. It's going gonna do very little on streaming, but it's gonna be placed in the right blogs and in the right um, um magazines and and and posts that will allow us to then be part of a scene that we want to go to. So it, um, it depends.
Speaker 2:But one thing that you cannot deny whether you're going in one direction or the other, is the socials in in in any way, because if you want to um, you know, even have that more underground clubby stuff, you still need people to talk about it and DJs to play it. The only way to see that for the world and for you is through that. Unless you go to every single club yourself. Oh, you do get the reports from when you do the club promo, but it's something that you can't really tangibly push if you don't have the results and you can't see on social push if you don't have the results and you can't see on social. Same thing for um, uh, for any song that then picks up, picks up, uh on on socials.
Speaker 2:You know they say that 70 of new music is discovered through through tiktok. Now, um, some translates into streaming. Not all of them do, though, and I think some, some songs just live on socials and don't end up being those big earners. The holy grail is both. So, yeah, there isn't one particularly thing. Obviously you, obviously you cannot deny the power of socials. To be fair, even when you have a song on radio and very little streaming, you still end up posting about it and posting about it on socials.
Speaker 1:Is that why your roster is making the majority of their money on streaming?
Speaker 2:Live.
Speaker 1:Live.
Speaker 2:If you're talking about altego branding, uh, if you're talking about fast boy live and radio publishing, they write a lot of songs yeah good boys a lot from from live, and so it depends live obviously obviously helps a lot. If you have a lot of followers like Altego, then you also have access to branding deals, subscription models and a bunch of other things.
Speaker 3:I guess you've had to change the way your label and management operate then, because you can't have an artist that makes all their money from branding and then you're sat there waiting for your royalties from spotify to come in absolutely so. So you is that how you decide whether to do management deals or, uh, label deals, or is it more just like I?
Speaker 2:think. I think every artist has different needs and different necessities and also, on its own, is stronger in one thing rather than another. So we try and focus on what they're strong at to begin with and capitalize on that, because it's probably the easiest and quickest way to push them, while we figure out how to level up the ones that are and, to be fair, none of them are perfect. I mean, there isn't, um, there isn't an artist that is takes a hundred percent of the box of everything. Maybe an artist that is a little bit stronger on radio and, uh, in other ways, might need some more help on socials. Others, others that are huge on socials, uh, maybe on streaming they're not as as strong, um, and vice versa, um, others want to be, you know, a little bit more underground to play certain shows, and so you almost don't want to be too pop or too successful, in a way.
Speaker 2:So that's the thing about, especially with management, is you need to have the same vision as your clients, and that's very important, because if you share the same vision, you know, if I have a bunch of ideas and my client has the total opposite, it's not going to work. But you tend to tailor the plan or the strategy according to artist per artist. So, although they're all in a dance space, they're all very different dance space. They're all very different with where they came from, what their strengths are, what the weaknesses are and um and and where they want to go. And so, yeah, you, you work with what you're given and, with them, make a plan of what's important to them, what you think is important to them. Most of the times, the long term clients or the clients where it works out, we have the same ideas, or at least the same direction. Uh, and then you, you, you just, yeah, you just build it from there how are you signing artists at the moment?
Speaker 1:is it like, because you've got this community, people are recommending people to you. You're just spotting them. You're going to see people live like, where are you finding people?
Speaker 2:um social, I am socials, yeah, yeah. Um, we also get offered clients um the camps that we do. You know we have in in you. I go to the office and I've got 30 artists uh every day between. But between artists I mean songwriter, producers, singers, writers, um, djs, whatever. So you're kind of in the center of it.
Speaker 2:The thing of the community is very important because we we're very inclusive with the people that we have. They always come and have a good time, we're all very fair and all that. So sometimes I'm just, you know, um having a cigarette outside, uh and a coffee with someone like so how's it going? Oh, you're out of a publishing deal. That's interesting, so maybe we should speak uh. You know, that helps a lot because we're literally at the center of it. Plus, I think by now the people who come to the boats, who have been to the boats, know that we always have a purpose for the stuff that we do. We don't do it just for the sake of it. Um, and most of the people who have come to our boats have seen their songs come out. Obviously I I would be lying if I said 100 of the songs I get written on the on the boats get, get cut. That's an impossible ratio to to maintain, but because of that it allows us to like have a finger on the poles.
Speaker 2:Finger on the poles yeah yeah, sometimes I I translate things wrong yeah, you can have.
Speaker 2:You know first that and then a lot of times we remember I was saying that we try and make our clients entrepreneurs as well. So, for example, max and Harvey, who you guys have had, we've signed them to publishing with Fastpoint. We've got another guy that we signed now called amrit, who's um, really talented producer. He's done stuff with like little scratch with tiesto bless here and there. I signed him with yk coy, the guy who did brahara cantham so, and we co-sign it. So, um, it's a little bit like at the very beginning that I was telling you that I would have these big producers and I would start getting these younger ones and work, you know, kind of in the same scale. They call it the spider web, where we basically we have our bigger, more established artists and with them a lot of times they're the ones who find them because they're obviously creating every day with musicians Sometimes we do as well and then we kind of, you know we've got our roster and then we expand the roster with but I don't necessarily manage them.
Speaker 2:If I publish someone, I probably don't manage them. Or if I sign to my label, probably don't manage them. Or if I sign to my label probably don't manage them. So most of the time the management clients we manage and then with them we co-sign people and then keep going. So that's one is that?
Speaker 1:do you not manage them and be publishing mainly because the contracts are messy and it's taking a huge percentage?
Speaker 2:it's so the boats are expensive to maintain.
Speaker 2:And so two sides of it. One is to avoid a conflict of interest. There's other people who do it, I have no problem with it. I think it's a conscious decision that we say, okay, you know, we'll take the commission for the deals that we make. Starts cashflow that pays for staff and pays for the boats and everything else. But then instead we co-publish or co-sign or co-own the rights of the people that we sign with our management, with our management clients. That allows us to actually be even more solid with the clients that we already have, avoid any kind of future issues of should I make a decision as a manager or as a publisher or as a record label, whatever? And then so it solidifies our relationship with, uh, with the current clients. Um, they start to be more entrepreneurial. Some are already more from the beginning entrepreneurial, some some less um, and then it's a huge opportunity for the people that we actually sign, because the young people that we signed are immediately in a, in a, in the position of being, you know, through not only my expertise and contacts and networks, but the ones of the artists themselves and our management client. They're immediately, you know they were, they are the ones who bring them into the studio, not me. I can't force someone to be in the studio with someone you know I can propose. But them instead, you know they invite people over and they have trust and so they're like, oh, you need to meet these guys. They're great, you know. So I for, at least for us, it's like it's, it's, it's the best way to, to, to, to, to go about it, because it's a win-win for everyone. Our clients are building their own roster, the new signings are taken care of and we can really do a good job.
Speaker 2:We don't want to just sign people and then not do anything Like we can. When I sign someone for publishing, I tell them exactly what it is that we're going to do and how we're going to do it. Remember, earlier I was telling you like little objectives achievable that you know going to do and how we're going to do it. Remember, earlier I was telling you like little, uh, objectives achievable that you know. So I won't sign an act and say I'm you're gonna better play wembley, but I'm gonna, obviously, I hope one day.
Speaker 2:But but I'll tell them. You know what I can do is put you in the studio with xyz tomorrow, give you access to this. If there's an opportunity, I'll bring it to you right away. There's this song, for example, that is unfinished, that has X amount of interest. Maybe you guys can work on it, like immediately give small or bigger opportunities, but, like I, just look at the next kind of small step and then eventually it ends up hopefully being a lot of small steps. What do they say? The journey of a thousand miles starts with just one step.
Speaker 3:So and if there's lots of people listening who's like aspiring to be in your position where you have your own label and management, how, how would you, how would you find those contacts and become someone who can pick up the phone to guetta's management or guetta himself?
Speaker 2:I. That's a very good question. It's not easy to get into the music industry. I struggled a lot to begin with, um, especially not being english and living in the uk. I think there's two ways. One is if you have a friend or or um artist that you like and you just start helping them. That's one thing. Two is knocking at people's door, like you know, literally go and you know research, what other management, companies, labels and publishers and then just get one foot in the door. You know I was talking to someone today that we might be hiring and it's a very successful A&R, became a very successful A&R and um he started uh working, I think, catalogs. But it was his first foot in the door. And necessarily, do you want, when someone envisions himself to work in the music industry, doesn't envision themselves working on catalog and giving clearances of you know old catalog from you know whatever. You know they always think that of the sexy part which is you know um getting uh signing the next radio head or uh, you know um managing this cool band or whatever. I think at the very beginning you have to have a foot in. Then, if you have a foot in, you still have access to the creatives right Because they're still there and then you just follow them, make yourself indispensable, just help in any way.
Speaker 2:I remember when I was a kid I used to work all day at the studio and then minimum three times a week no, realistically three times a week, no more than that, sometimes four, but three times a week I would go to gigs and I remember there was like a closed circle of a and r's, you know that kind of know each other, and I kind of felt like the outsider that was trying to be friends and what I did. And a lot of times I wasn't even on the list to be able to go in. Like sometimes I go to the like I hear about the shit hot band that everyone wants to sign and I go there and I wouldn't be able to get in. Shit hot band that everyone wants to sign and I go there and I wouldn't be able to get in. But then one thing that I did is that it was always very friendly and, um, I would go out and maybe smoke a cigarette while having a beer between one act and the other, and I would speak to the bouncers and I would actually be very friendly to the bouncers. I'd remember their names. I'd, you know, offer them a cigarette or kind of. Also, you have to imagine that, like how a bouncer at the time could to uh deal with a bunch of, um, yeah, drunken industry executives and the time after, time after, maybe even if there wasn't space, uh, you know, my boy, whatever would let me in, anyways, not always, but sometimes what I didn't start where I wanted to be. I didn't want to be a studio runner, uh, but it was the first thing that they got me. I wanted to work at the major label. At the time I was, I was, um, I started my internship at the, at the universal label in, and so I thought, and now I'm gonna go work.
Speaker 2:For a record, I did a bunch of interviews actually. Actually, you know, at the time the majors were all in High Street, kensington. I saw them all and I wanted to do anything. I would take any job. I would have taken, obviously, a&r. It was impossible even to get a meeting in, but you know I've done meetings, for, yeah, I think it was TV Rep rep or I did. Uh, what else did I do? I did, like, um, various kind of internships in any different shape or form. Never managed to get one um, and I still remember when I was getting out of the interviews I thought they went so well, uh, and then I didn't get a call or anything.
Speaker 1:The exact same thing which you're making. It was a deca, wasn't it, do you remember? Yeah, when we, when we first met, I went for an interview at deca and I remember coming out being like I think I got that yeah no but everything happens for a reason. Yeah, because the fact you didn't get it gave you all your contacts and then led to this whole story absolutely and lessons learned.
Speaker 2:There was a time at the beginning where I wanted to. I desperately.
Speaker 2:All I wanted to do is work for a major label, because that, for me, was a lot of people's goal, yeah, yeah um, now I am really happy that I went into another way, struggled a lot, especially at the beginning, but I ended up learning every side of the industry and, yeah, funnily enough, after I started to get offers for and I did end up consulting for major labels and funnily enough, I think it a couple weeks ago I got an offer for the major, major job at the major label, which obviously I can't do and don't even want to do. But, um, it was kind of funny because I was talking to my girlfriend about it and I'm like I would have killed for that job years ago, full circle moment, yeah.
Speaker 2:Killed for that job and I turned it down on the spot. So good, so it goes. But, this being said, everyone is different, like. But this is to say that maybe what I thought I wanted, or what I thought that I wanted to be, I didn't know. I think I've talked a bit too much to answer your question. I think you just need to start from somewhere. When I first started to work in the music industry, I barely knew the difference between a manager and an A&R. You know, I would have taken any job agent, sales, rep, whatever someone would have given me in order for me to be close to the people that I can learn from. I would have. I would have done so, yeah good place to wrap it up.
Speaker 3:Especially, maddy tells me how busy you are as a person. It's like from meeting to meeting to meeting.
Speaker 1:You're a busy guy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I know you've got meetings to get to now, so it's a good place to end it, and thanks very much for coming on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where can people find you? It's on Instagram.
Speaker 2:Yes, Well, on Instagram it's at John C Damiani. It's at John C Damiani, which is G-I-O-N-Z-Y-D-A-M-I-A-N-I. That's my Instagram. And then, yeah, I just started a new company with Purple Wall, who manage vintage culture and a bunch of others, and Sebi, who's the head of music there, and where we're putting all of our clients together doing most of the one all of them, most of them that I spoke about today um, and it's called we are only good people, and the company's called only good people and we want to work with, or at least create, um only good people.
Speaker 3:so that's one of them where are you off to now for the boats? I'm going back to the boats. I've got a meeting there you can tell us about, or is it a secret meeting?
Speaker 2:It's well. I'm meeting with a potential investor because I'm doing a publishing JV Nice, and so I've got a vision of what we're trying to do and I've got someone to come and see the boats and hopefully give us some money. Nice, best of luck. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:It's great to finally meet you in person.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's true, the first time we actually zoomed loads of times, the first time we actually meet in person.
Speaker 1:Thank you. If you enjoyed the podcast, make sure to give it a like, subscribe if you're watching on YouTube, and we'll see you in the next one.