Finding Strong
Ultra endurance athlete and coach, Mark Bottenhorn and Ultra Endurance Athlete Arthur Blue, are on a mission to find the strongest version of themselves. Episodes touch on topics including, performance, fitness, nutrition, mental health, and mindset. Please like, rate, share and subscribe if you find value in our content.
Arthur: @Arthur.Blue3
Mark: @bottenhornrunning
Finding Strong
069: Mark Bottenhorn: An Intersection of Endurance and Life
In this episode, Arthur interviews Mark as a reintroduction to new listeners. Mark returns to racing - Arthur and Mark dive into how Mark grew through adversity and into new updates in Mark's life.
In this episode:
- Mark's background in competition and coaching
- Mark's mentality around pushing his limits
- Mark's future plans for competition, coaching and life.
- Mark speaks to the grit required in endurance, sharing the mentality around finding balance between training and the parenting the little ones that help fuel his return.
Additionally, the hosts explain the importance of pushing through adversity, blooming through resilience, and the profound fulfillment that lies at the edges of the human limits.
0:34
Introduction to Ultra Race Training
From NPC Bodybuilding to Ultra Running
Mental Toughness and Training Routine
Training, Work, and Diet Discussion
Vegetarianism and Future Race Goals
Pushing Limits and Finding Fulfillment
Training With Kobe Bryant, Pursuing Excellence
Start Coaching, Build Community
What is going on, everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Finding Strong podcast. It's me, mark Botthorn, and I'm sitting alongside Arthur. Arthur. What is going on, dude?
Speaker 2:What's up, brother? How's your week?
Speaker 1:It's going pretty well. Been out in West Texas so been running some West Texas desert single tracks, switchbacks, all that doing workouts, events. It's been jam-packed. I just got home, happy to be home. How about you? How's your week been going?
Speaker 2:Good man, I heard you finally threw your hat in the ring for the race that's coming up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was always doing it, but I stopped procrastinating and I signed on up for that, so I'm officially in the race field.
Speaker 2:So that should be cool Eight days away, or nine days away, so good, good, and you've been able to get in some good training miles on a trail and climb those hills and mountains.
Speaker 1:Yeah, been able to be able to do that and everything like that. Now I'm kind of tapering. You know, I got sick last week, as we kind of talked about in this podcast, and it carried over into the beginning of this week, Got a really solid week, Like we got 12 and a half and I did another five later for 17 and a half on Saturday. Then on Sunday I played a full 90 minute soccer game and did six or seven miles, something like that. And so I was a little thrashed Monday because I had to drive out to you know six hours to Amarillo. But I decided from there to kind of start the taper a little bit early because I wasn't feeling really well, Don't want to push it. The hay's kind of in the barn, Can't do much more to improve, but I can do a lot more to run myself down. So I figured now at this point just call it like a you know eight day, one week taper, something like that, and then after the race immediately bounce back for the race that we're going to do.
Speaker 2:So Not as good man. I think people kind of under appreciate the taper, right Like they don't take it serious. You start questioning things about your training and next thing you know, right like you're trying to push more miles or you go in not in a healthy mental space. So it's good, good to hear that you're actually sticking to your taper.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean in the past I've tapered less or I've tapered more, and so there is some scientific evidence that shows that people with higher fast-switch muscle fibers do better with a longer taper, whereas somebody who has a lot of slow twitch, predominant muscle fibers so not like you and I would probably do better with less of a taper. Typically they're just better designed as endurance athletes so they can handle that. For us, a better, like a longer taper is probably better. There's a lot of emerging science that shows that. So I'm really giving that a try.
Speaker 1:And my hand was kind of forced on this too, because I was kind of sick and I didn't want to push myself into like burnout and show up at race day overtrained. Always typically better to err on the side of under-trained than over-trained, particularly because this is the first race in the training cycle. So it's good. In some ways it's going to make me experiment a little bit, but I'm going into this race with a really good mindset. I feel really comfortable, really confident in my training and the work that I've done, like remembering that this is my first kind of ultra race back or really serious ultra race back in almost four years now, and so knowing that this is just really the beginning and I don't need to hit a home run here.
Speaker 1:So I'm excited. I'm going to go into it, I'm going to give them my all, I'm going to try to win, and if somebody's going to beat me, they're going to damn hurt to beat me. That's all I can say. But at the end of the day, I'm not setting too high of expectations. I'm feeling really good about where I'm at and at peace with it. So it might be maturity, it might be just more years in the game, I don't know, but I feel really good.
Speaker 2:No, love to hear it, man Love to hear. So today I think we want to do something a little different for our newer listeners and you know, with me joining you as a co-host here, I want to kind of do a reintroduction of Mark Bottenhorn Kind of you know, run, I'll run through some of your professional and personal accomplishments and then we can kind of go from there. How does that sound?
Speaker 1:Yeah, hey, this is this is fun. Let's do it we got a lot of new listeners right, so I feel like this is a good time with with we're grateful for all the new listeners Probably a good time to do a little bit of a reintroduction. So I think it was a great idea?
Speaker 2:No for sure. So some of your personal accomplishments. You're a husband and father of two little girls, right?
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, two, two little girls Got, maya and Bianca. So Maya is five years old, she just started school two days ago and Bianca is over a year and a half old.
Speaker 2:So nice and I get to see those, see those girls posted on your IG. I know you like to make sure that they're seeing your fitness and on your journey and as you grace the stage and high rocks and things like that right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean they're they're literally one of the one of the driving factors and everything that keeps me going, and I think all of any of my races or events are as much about them as they are about me. So I'm happy to be able to share those moments with them and share that experience with them and hopefully they grow up to know that they are two fierce, powerful young women and they can grow up and do whatever they want and whatever they put their mind to.
Speaker 2:Love it. As a girl dad, I'm trying to instill that into my, my princess, right now too. Man, Raising girls is different, man, it's just just different Teaching you patience, grace and they wising you up a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they always keep you on your toes but at the end of the day, like I love it. I love how optimistic they are about everything and how like they feel like they can accomplish anything and they can tackle any challenge. So that's like it's almost contagious in a way, and I'm like what happens like when we get older and we get cynical right, Because they're so young and positive and naive, and I want to channel a little bit of that Like I want to learn some of that from them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, for sure Love it. So you're a collegiate soccer player. Where'd you play soccer?
Speaker 1:So I played at two schools. I played very briefly at Schoolcraft and then I played at Oakland where we were undefeated in my time there, won the championship. I was the captain and then, yeah, played post collegiate soccer as well for a number of kind of division three and division four teams in the US as well. After that I don't think a lot of people know that about that. I always assume that I probably ran in college or something like that, but it's not a yeah, and we'll talk about how you kind of found your running journey.
Speaker 2:But you're also an NPC competitor as well, If you want to explain to the people what that is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did compete in bodybuilding. It's like bodybuilding, but with the board short. So I was a NPC, national level physique competitor, so a lot like bodybuilding and it's pretty much the opposite of running. You know, I think I'm my heaviest. I was probably I was right around 10% or under 10% body fat off season at about 205 pounds, and so for everybody that sees me now close to 165. So it's a it's a huge change. You know, like when I was on stage, like my stage rate was probably closer to 175, but I was probably coming in at 6% body fat, something like that. So huge change but did a lot of fitness modeling, things like that, but ultimately it wasn't for me.
Speaker 1:I think the sport is really weird because it's like in soccer If you outplayed the team, you score more goals than your team wins in basketball. Same thing in in running, right, doesn't matter. Everybody starts the finish or the start line. Everybody adds the same finish line whoever wins wins. There's, it's not debatable. But in physique and bodybuilding it's a very Kind of subjective sport, right, the judges decide who's the most symmetrical, who's the best. Based on this and I'm not saying this because I was hard done I placed really well in a lot of events, but I ultimately didn't want to leave things up to it. I prefer like what I would consider real competition, and I like the idea of team sports, or also just like pushing my limits, and I don't think bodybuilding was it for me. So while I had a good run in it and learned a lot about fitness, ultimately it wasn't something that I could see doing. So one day I just started running. I just, I, just. I was 185 pounds and I just started running.
Speaker 2:It's weird. No, that's super good man. You showed, like you know, that you're a true athlete, right going to compete in at Different different fitness events and different things, such as high rocks. Right like, how'd you enter into the world of high rocks?
Speaker 1:well, it's weird because you know I had I had like kind of built a reputation for for working with endurance athletes and you know, if you, I guess really, if we go way back in 2008, I started as personal trainer and I was working with a lot of. I Was working with a triathlete who's a pretty good age group triathlete and he was part of a triathlon club and he brought a bunch of triathletes to me and I was like this is great, it's like a gold mine. I'm programming strength training for these endurance athletes. It's my strength and conditioning background, is what I really love like. I didn't like working with weight loss or transformation clients or bodybuilding clients. I really love like athletic performance, strength conditioning and so it's cool.
Speaker 1:So at a certain point I was, I was working with effectively this whole triathlon team as their strength conditioning coach and I realized that I really liked it. But I was working on the strength conditioning side, not the aerobic development or aerobic planning side, and you know I went back to playing college soccer and and then post-collegiate soccer and While I did it, I maintain a relationship with my professor, my favorite professor at the time. He was also the cross-country and track and field coach and a formal professional runner and you know he and I always talked and he would always push me to come out to run and we had a soccer combine and I think I ran 505, oh 501 or 502 on gravel and cement and dirt and grass for a mile time trial in the pair of soccer cleats as part of the, as part of the soccer combine, and he was there and he was like why move in?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was my first ever mile. I didn't know. And he was like why don't you come, maybe try to run with the track and field team in the offseason? And so from there I started training with the indoor track and field team because in Michigan, like in December, you have indoor track and field because there's obviously no way you're gonna be outside. And so I was literally kind of immersed. I got my start in the sport. I was immersed with 1330, 1340, you know 14 minute 5k years.
Speaker 2:You know four minute mile or so, yeah, that's just moving.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, that was the standard for me, so I didn't know. I didn't know anything different. So I was training with them every day and I was just like, wow, you know, I'm not very good at this sport, they're good at it, but I get the train with them. And this is crazy. And it turns out that that wasn't an accurate representation of the general population. And I entered in a couple of road races. I did pretty well. I entered into a half marathon. I think I ran one, 1550 or something for my first half marathon and my my college track and field coach was like man, you could probably do pretty well in the sport if you, if you, dedicate your time to it. And I thought about it for a little bit but ultimately decided to pursue the post collegiate soccer route. And I did that for a little while and I remember it was December 22nd 2015 and I said you know, the season ends today for soccer, or playoff season, post-collegial year. And I said, you know, I think I'm just, I think I'm just done with trying this whole semi professional Soccer thing and I want to run, I really want to pursue it. So I made that decision.
Speaker 1:That was the last game I played and I dove straight into running and you know, between 2017 and really 2018 and 2020, I ran some of the best or some of the top performances I land on the top performance list in North America and a bunch of different ultra distances and I really found my calling, found what I loved. But during that time I started coaching athletes and I built a bit of a social media reputation for combining strength training and Running. In 2020 I actually Competed in powerlifting alongside of running. So in 2020 I ran the third fastest six hour distance in North America for the year. Actually it was the third at the time but it is now, I think, the sixth for the year total. So in the sixth fastest time for six hours and with just about 46 miles. And then later I won the regional championship in powerlifting that year and set the Submaster's Texas state record in the back squat and the drug tested division. So I still have that record right now. So with that range I kind of diesel is real.
Speaker 1:Diesel, is it's real for us, like we call it, we call my, we call ourselves diesel and Magnum. I don't know if it's catching on. I don't think it is, but oh, it is.
Speaker 2:I think after this for sure will.
Speaker 1:Maybe it will, maybe it will, but I think I wanted to do that to prove that that People could have this like the human body is incredible, right, and we can do really incredible things. We also do really terrible things if we put our mind to it. We can do really incredible things if we believe in ourselves and we put in the work to do it. And I think I wanted to show like people associate running 50 miles, we'll say, with being skinny, slow, and they associate being really strong with me being fat and probably also slow. And I try to find that, like you could have range. I try to prove to myself and probably, unfortunately, other people that I was Probably one of the best athletes around at the time and that's what I was trying to do. But either way, I built a reputation for combining strength and and and endurance stuff and and so a lot of companies were reaching out to me to do kind of what is now called hybrid sports or hybrid athletics.
Speaker 1:And hyrox was kind of a natural progression and I thought I'd be good at because good at, because my skill set and ultimately, you know, I I found a lot of Kind of niche in doing like double stuff. So one, a couple Races with Victor, a couple podiums, and one, a race with Victor Casada, who's one of my best friends on men's doubles and then on women's doubles I won or men, sorry, mixed doubles, because I am a man, so mixed doubles. You know, bridget Brown and I went to the world championship and came and took the bronze medal at world championships in my first year doing it, then also won some races. One of my athletes named Karen, so I had a lot of success at that sport. But ultimately somehow I got brought back to ultra running because I think it is my true love. And so here I am today.
Speaker 2:No man, that's great and I appreciate that deep dive on that. So I want to harp on a few things that resonate with me, mostly with your story, and that's you know how it takes mental determination and grit to transfer and be competitive in all these different spaces and discipline as well, so kind of how, what develop when? When did that kind of knock for you and stick with you? You know that you were disciplined and and where'd you get that discipline, grit and determination from?
Speaker 1:That's a great question. You're such a better interviewer than I am. So I think, like early on, you know what much, like you, competition has been, this, this huge centerpiece in my life since as long as I can remember. So I've always had this really competitive spirit and I think I realized if I wanted to be really good and I wanted to win things and be competitive and I had to pour my kind Of heart and soul into what I did. But it's a completely different story when you want to be good in multiple fields or you want to be good in something new. Because, let's face it, if to switch to something new and try something that's out of your wheelhouse, it means you're probably gonna suck a little bit at first, right, at least compared to what you're used to doing. And if you're, if you're solely driven by your ego, it's that will make you stay in your comfort zone. But I thought really the only way you know we say it often, but growth and comfort cannot coexist, and I thought really the only way that I could grow is to get out of that comfort zone. And so you know, I took my lumps, like first race in high rocks didn't place Well. At first race in high rocks. We DNF because my partner couldn't finish. Second race in high rocks. We got a penalty and finished fifth place. Third race in high rocks I Was actually questioning whether I'd even come back. Third race in high rocks Ran one of the fastest times ever, placing second to one of the other fastest times ever, and then started to catch fire.
Speaker 1:But you know, none of these things were easy for me. You know, I thought initially, running a 5k, I was like, well, I ran five minutes in the mile, so times up by three that's 15 minutes. I'm gonna run 15 minutes or 5k. I ended up running 20, 20 minutes in some cold Michigan weather, right, so like it didn't just click for me. Naturally it took a lot of work and I kind of had to suck at first and you know so I guess that's how I did it.
Speaker 1:But but really, like, in terms of being mentally tough, I for a long time I saw myself as a very mentally weak person when I was struggling with anxiety at the depths of it. You know, in school I didn't understand what ADHD was. When I was in high school I couldn't, couldn't really focus, and I struggled there and the honor saying, and I perceived it as weakness, right different things like that. And so I've really put myself on a mission to bring out the strongest, most resilient, most battle-tested version of myself, and In doing so, I've learned that I'm actually quite mentally strong, and I've also learned that anybody can get past their self perceived limitations by really pushing the limits, getting uncomfortable and really chasing what sets your soul on fire, you know.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, for sure. I love to hear that man. I love how you tied that back in the mental toughness and kind of Using your disability in a way to become your superpower. Right, and not letting that cripple you and keep you, keep you down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I don't want to. Yeah, so like, and again, I didn't understand ADHD when I was a student, like when I was a high schooler, I didn't understand. Like for a while I honestly thought I was autistic, you know, like I didn't understand what I was really facing it when I on diagnosed for a long time, just like I did with my dad. And then I didn't really understand anxiety and you know my, my mom and my dad, like they didn't understand anxiety as well, or the best way to help me. There weren't as many resources then as there are now, and so I Maybe misconstrued someone that is being weak or whatever it is. But I want to make sure that I'm pointing out that I don't think people with, whether you know, mental illness, whether it's anxiety, depression, anything I don't. I don't see them as weak at all. It's just that was my perception then. But what I've realized is you Can overcome the limitations that you perceive, but most of those limitations are self-perceived.
Speaker 2:No, yeah for sure, absolutely, absolutely. And the pivot just a little bit off of that right. Like you know, we talk about training and you're kind of in a in a deload week or a taper week as you prepare for your first race of the year. What is a typical training week look like for you outside of? You know, taper?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So for me, I usually run about 10 times a week. So you know I might take a rest, a total rest day, from running once a month or once every three weeks, but that doesn't mean that I don't rest or recover. So I think a lot of times we we misconstrue things. First and foremost, like a rest day means you just sit at home on the couch and we talked about this, but rest is really facilitated through movement. So for me, like because of how long I've been running and the amount of volume I put on my body, like a 45 minute really easy run or an easy run on the trails or something like that might be my rest day, like, right, that might be my recovery day, but maybe one true rest day a month. So typically I'm running seven days a week. Five of those or four of those days I'm running doubles three to four times a week. I'm a really big advocate for doubles we've talked about.
Speaker 1:I'm strength training two times a week currently and then I'm playing soccer two times a week as well. Usually the weekend, Sunday, is a kind of a higher level full. Usually I put in 90 minutes a game, and then Thursday is kind of like a training game where you play for 50 minutes but still a very high intensity. So I've packed my week with a lot of things but typically, you know, it's about 80% easy running volume and then anywhere between 25 to. You know it's basically 75 to 85% easy running volume, average 80% and then 15 to 25% higher intensity stuff, so stuff above threshold pace. But a lot of my running comes from easy. As you know, like low intensity training, I'm a huge proponent of the low intensity stuff and that's really what my week consists of. And you know a heck of a lot of work and a heck of a lot of parenting and building our businesses and things like that as well.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely, and you have a day job too right? You work for a pretty big company, if you want to talk about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I work corporately and I think a lot of people probably know this, but I work corporately in an account manager role for New Balance Athletics, so I basically oversee all the run performance, run specialty sales in a pretty large territory, one of the larger territories in the country. I actually recently won account manager the year, which was a huge kind of accolade and achievement for me, because I pour my heart and soul into my job and I truly love it. But you know that I own a coaching business as well, run this podcast with you and then do a little bit of social media work on the side. So with all that combined I'm spread pretty thin, but I am truthfully surrounded or totally enveloped by the things that I love to do and where my passion is. So I don't I couldn't envision a better life for myself. To be honest.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely. It's so cool, right. This is the. Let the. Let the passion shape the man.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, I've never heard that actually before, but but no, I do love that. Let the passion shape the man and it's and it's so true Like, and people will say, uh, if you, if you do what you love, then you'll never work a day in your life.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that couldn't be further from the truth, because when you love something, you pour your heart and soul into it and it's a roller coaster of emotions and some days it doesn't feel like you're working because you love it so much, but some days you want to cry and you want to rip your hair out, and that's really like kind of in some way symbolic for life in general and uh, so, yeah, uh, I love what I do. There are downsides to it, but, um, I feel immensely fortunate to to be in the position that I'm in.
Speaker 2:No, for sure, man For sure, every day is a blessing. So you know, we talked about the training aspect of it, but let's talk about your diet. You know, are you following any special diets or do you kind of follow the the principle of just eat clean, eat healthy as often as possible?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I mean in general like, uh, I have, I suppose, a little bit of like, and you know this about me, but I have probably some moral qualms with uh, factory farming or meat consumption kind of in general. And again, I'm not judgmental to what anybody does or or anything like that. I don't pretend to to know what is best. So in general I try to adhere to a fairly strict vegetarian diet with minimal dairy, just because we know what that does to my stomach, um, but overall I I think I've been a lot more strict and vocal about it before. In general I try to make really good decisions 80% of the time and I try not to exclude too many things from my, from my nutrition too often.
Speaker 1:Um, I think, if you really like, when I, when I'm coaching athletes or the way that I live in general, I think and I say this all the time, and I'm an advocate for, for modeling our life and training the way that the best in the world do it, and that doesn't mean going out and running 120 and up miles per week necessarily. You're scaling it to you, uh, but in general, high performing athletes, with little exception, don't cut out whole food groups. They don't follow like fad diets such as, like ketogenic carnivore, very strict vegan diets Um. So, with that being said, I try not to focus too much on strict elimination diets, but I try to make really mindful choices around everything that I do.
Speaker 2:Nice. So when you say you're just somewhat of a vegetarian, do you stay away from all meat, or is it certain? Or do you pick and choose what days you eat meat? How does that look for you?
Speaker 1:I try in general to stay away from all meat just because one I don't really like it. And I think growing up for most of my adult life I've been a vegetarian, or even been a vegan most of my adult life. And the reality is, unless, like I'm really really really hard up for options, like I'm not going to ruin somebody's night by saying we can't eat here, but in general I find something to fit within my nutrient goals. And there'll be a rare occasion where where I don't and I just kind of suck it up and take one for the team. But in general I try to adhere to most of my principles.
Speaker 1:Like at home we don't, I don't have any meat or dairy in the house at all, pretty much ever. And if I do consume any kind of dairy it would be something that's really fermented, like kefir or yogurt. Just regular cheese doesn't do well. And then I'd be lying if I said I didn't eat the occasional ice cream, because I love ice cream. Don't love the havoc that it wreaks on my stomach, but I love ice cream in general.
Speaker 2:So I found myself knee deep in a pint at least once a week.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I've been so like when I do eat ice cream at home, I like Ben and Jerry's, like dairy free ice cream, and again, I don't necessarily think that it's healthier, great, and there's a lower saturated fat content. My main issue is that, like I'm lactose intolerant I don't love the dairy industry, but I'm lactose intolerant, so that's really why I avoid it. And I'm not this for a disclaimer, I'm not telling anybody they should eat a certain way. What I will say with this, almost foolproof is, most of the time, to do your best to make good decisions that align with your goals and that fit into your moral set of values, and you'll be happy. And, as you know, arthur, I don't push anything on anybody. I'm down for whatever anybody wants to do.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, he for sure is he, his coworker brings us Chick-fil-A all the time. So yeah, we know that they.
Speaker 1:That's a. That's a different, that's a different episode. I can't get into that right now.
Speaker 2:No good. So yeah, man, so you've accomplished a lot on your journey so far. What is? What is the next? What is your 2024? Look like race wise and and goal wise, and then we can kind of get into the three to five year plan of Mark by Norm.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, so 2024, I think it's really just more the same each year. I'm not reinventing the wheel, it's small evolutions and not a revolution, because I live my life by this kind of guiding set of principles because it's how I'm happiest. But what I will say is I want to, I want to bust the rust off and some ultra endurance stuff. So that's what the year is really about. The year is being competitive, making some podiums on some on some really decent ultra races, but then also to have some really good experiences and running, like to spend more time in the running community because I've trained kind of solo a lot of the time to to help you obviously in the, in the races that you have set up. So so whether that means pacing you and crewing you at Leadville or whatever else is down the road, stuff like that, and just being a part of those things, I may even want to volunteer at some races or whatever it is.
Speaker 1:But for me, from a competitive perspective, I want to find you know, right now I have kind of three races lined up. I have Jack Loeb Jam and eight days running a six hour race. I love to finish top three on the podium there. From that I have Grasslands. It looks like I'm going to do the half marathon and then March. Was that March 14th or 16th?
Speaker 2:16th, yeah, march 16th, yeah 16.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so good thing you're here, because I, honestly, I would have been racing this weekend and there's no race, so I'd have been showing up at the ranch with no one there. So yeah, so yeah. That would be the next one, probably the trail half marathon there, and then following that, I'm going to probably put one more big race on the thing, for spring is kind of an A race, but it looks like August. I'm going to do Habanero, which in my perspective, will be just a hell of a way to push my limits and bring myself to another level of mental and physical strength and fortitude, but also it will give me something to keep me going in the very hot summer months. Like you have Leadville, you know you have to train right Because you have this monumental task ahead of you and typically in Texas, like I don't pick any goals in the early spring because of the weather is absolutely dreadful in the summer and I do a lot of cross training and things like that.
Speaker 1:This year I really wanted to train through it and as a result, like I will embrace the heat, the heat training and all of that, the insufferable heat, really to race a Habanero which starts at noon. It's one of the hottest races on one of the hottest races days on one of the hottest days of the year, and that will take me closer to one of my other ultimate goals. And so, yeah, right now I have through August, I have those two races in bad water, but I'm hoping to get some on the books in the May, though kind of be an A race as well, or that's a bad one.
Speaker 1:Nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, habanero, do you know Mary did that race last year and another one, becky, that I work with, she did that race. That's a no joke race, man, like it did. You know, texas is already hot and you just add that the time of year you do the race, the time of day you start the race, the amount of mileage you're pounding out, grinding for that race, and it's all in sand and on a ranch.
Speaker 1:It's at the same course that Jekyllop Jam is on in eight days.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And to me, therein lies some of the some of the beauty, right Like the course is awful, the weather is awful, it's a mental challenge, right, and we know that when we do things that we don't want to do, we know that when we do hard stuff, we become better at doing hard stuff in all aspects of our life. We become more well equipped, we become stronger, more resilient. So I'm just looking for an opportunity to take myself to the next level, and I feel like this is a really big year to be able to do that and to really get out of my comfort zone and really, really run some brutal races and challenge myself and see what I can do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, and with that I want to sit on that for a second like when you say you know it's a mental challenge, right, like where do you take yourself mentally to complete something like a, just a loop course in the middle of the summer of Texas or any any ultra? Really like, where is your, where do you, where do you go mentally?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I think if you'd asked me this question four years ago, I would have said, in part at least in my answer that you know, with the attention that I've gotten on the internet, sometimes like I will let the hatred fuel me. Right, because I get a lot of like people who don't know me, people who make judgements, by people who insult me for whatever reason, and I would let that fuel me. In the past, people who made me feel like I wasn't a runner, didn't belong. You said it didn't look like a runner, they would call me a crossfitter, they'd say 15-15, the five case, and so bad for a crossfitter, but the guys a bum or whatever, and I would let that stuff fuel me before. But now, if you looked at like, what maybe fuels me is like one, setting a prime example for the people I care about most. So setting a prime example for my, for my daughters, my training partner, right, doing it for the people who believe in me, because those are the people that matter. And then, most of all, honestly, most of all, doing it for myself. Right, to prove that that I am as tough as I say I am to to like I find fulfillment in doing hard things. Honestly, it's not a punishment thing like. I truly enjoy grinding out hard things, and maybe in the moment you're thinking, 26 miles into the race, you're thinking why did I do this? But and then maybe immediately following the racer, saying, nah, why do I continue to do? This is my last one. But then five hours later you're looking at the next race, right and, and so for me it's like the challenge, the triumph, right, and then there's the chance that you could fail. I think that's really alluring to me, right, when you do things that are really hard and you, when you push your limits, when you try to do really big things or accomplish really big things, there's this chance there, and the chance it's bigger and bigger the harder things are that you could fail, and I think a lot of people see failure as a roadblock, with the end of the road or whatever it is. But it's not. Failure is not that. Failure is an opportunity to learn, to grow and get better.
Speaker 1:You talked about some of your background. You talked about you, what you learned from the winds and podiums that you had, but you talked about how you learned more from the failures, setbacks, the DNF that you had, and it's very much. I very much subscribe to that as well and I agree with what you said there and maybe I'm paying a little homage to that right here. But the reality is is that through failures, through pushing yourself to the breaking point, you learn what you're really made of. And I want to be five hours into this race and say this is what I'm made of. I want to be, you know, deep into the race, a habanero everybody's dropping out people in the medical tent, whatever it is and say, well, this is where we find out we were made of. This is what proverbially separates the men from the boys, and I don't mean that in a sexist way at all, just, you know, as an expression and so like. For me, that's what I want to do, like, I want to find moments to test myself, and I just said today that I was procrastinating sign up for this race.
Speaker 1:But the reality is I didn't know which race I was going to sign up for at this event, because I wanted to sign up for whichever one was going to be the most competitive and had the most racers in it.
Speaker 1:So I actually chose this race, but I waited until eight days out to find out which is going to have the best list of entrance in it. So I chose the most competitive race in my mind. So that's why I did it, and a lot of people might have like a lot of our friends might have made jokes and thought that I was procrastinating, but the reality was, and I'll say the truth right here is that I was making sure that I was finding the most competitive race to racing, because I don't want to go win a race or be really competitive in a race that just doesn't have a lot of people in it. I want to race against the best the best and I want to prove myself against the best the best. I want to prove myself in the toughest conditions and, you know, through adversity. I think there's a lot of beauty underneath the pain. There's something gorgeous underneath that pain, right, and that's for me what it's always been about. So I hope that answers your question.
Speaker 1:But it's like no yeah it's like the Lily flower analogy. Right like in Thailand and, you know, in Asia, lily flowers are like beautiful but they grow from the ugliest, most polluted cesspools. And coming through this mental anguish that I've been in, coming up through the adversity that came up and growing up and where I grew up and all these things and and having what I have now, I use that Lily flower analogy no, I love it, man, it's the man in the arena mentality, the warrior mentality.
Speaker 2:You know, every it's a. It's a outdated quote, but it is a quote. Another quote I love quotes is you know, every man needs a woman of love and a war to fight, and so it's like we're constantly searching out those battles and and ways to prove ourselves. And, you know, just find out what you're really made of and and that's exactly what you're doing, you're becoming the man in the arena right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'll tell you this like I fueled myself with competition before maybe sometimes the wrong reason and after 2020 I took a break from it. And the reality is I took a break from it because I was like going through this period where I was like trying to find more self-love. Like I've been here, I've made it to the, to the mountaintop, I've been successful in my career, I built a successful business. I don't need to feel like my back's against the wall of time and feel that paranoia, that anxiety, that stress and so like I'll just like love myself and just do stuff for fun. And what ensued was probably the greatest deal of anxiety I've ever felt, and I think it's because I was living below what I'm capable of and that was a really tough point for me. Like I have the nice house, like the luxury cars or whatever, and I'm like growing up where I grew up. Like if I saw the stuff that I had, now I would think that I'm rich. Right, I think that I made. I would think that I have all these great things, but I was missing something. I got soft with all these things. I got soft those. I wasn't pushing my limits. And when I'm pushing my limits and I'm pursuing something actively, that's when I'm the happiest in my life, truly, and I need to push the limits and find things. And I need to be around other people, other men, other women who are doing that, who want those things for themselves.
Speaker 1:Right, like I'll say this, this podcast would never be the best version of what it could be without you being here. Right, it takes two of us. It's talking about iron, sharpen iron mentality, right, but think about, in our training, right, you've already made me better. You know, you send me today 12 miles done, took conference calls while running, did this, did that and, like, you have no idea how much I you probably do know, but I admire that and and I'm the same way and I'm like, okay, absolutely again, like so, if I'm not pushing myself alongside of you, competing with you, you and I aren't working towards goals together, then I don't think that we're probably gonna be the strongest version of ourselves, right, and that's the same thing in your own like, if you're not pushing towards things that really set your soul on fire and pushing towards things that you really want to accomplish, then you're probably gonna feel empty, at least with my personality type and your personality type. That's how you're gonna feel, and some people are content with comfort, and that's totally okay. There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1:But I lived a life of comfort for two or three years and I was so unhappy I thought I just wanted to make it and just live comfortably and be like you know what. I've had some success in different sports. I can do these things and lay off of it now. Now I'm back with a vengeance. I'm back, fired up. This is when I'm the happiest. I'm fired up right now.
Speaker 2:Dude, I'm ready to run through this you got me fired up, man, I think, is if you can hear the passion in your voice and how much you really you love to compete, man. You love the to feed into that competitive nature and there's nothing wrong with that, right like I think. For me I just love, you know, get into the end of a race, climbing the mountain or whatever you're doing, task you're accomplishing, and going back down doing it all over again. I find joy in that, man. I just I love doing that a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:I will say this it's you think early on that it's the destination that you're trying to get to. Whether that's a race win, that's a personal best, depends on your level. Maybe, sure, first 5k ever right, because you're centered. For some people it's learning to walk again after being paralyzed. Whatever it is, you think that that destination is the point for the journey, but you don't realize that the journey itself is actually the destination. And once you get put into that, you realize that that finish line at the race, for example, on next Saturday, isn't actually the finish line.
Speaker 1:For me it's much like that Emmett Smith thing that we've talked about when you won the Super Bowl and he's bench pressing 225 and they said, when you're gonna rest? You just won the Super Bowl and he, and he left it down on his chest like a pause bench and then he said, all right, there I go, I rested and he pushes it back up and it's just like that. It's like that mentality and that's what it is and that's what fires me up. So I do not want to go back to living a life that is less than which I'm capable of living. I love pushing my limits. I don't do it for material things. If you, if you're running for material objects, you're in the wrong sport. I recommend for tenants or something like that. I just, I just want to push my limits. I don't, I don't care about the outcome, I just want to push my limits no, absolutely man.
Speaker 2:So kind of on a little bit of a lighter note, right like I want to do some some rapid-fire questions at you. So yeah, if you, what's a goal race for you, any, any place in the entire world? What's a goal race or or competition like?
Speaker 1:long-term, just like bucket list, yeah, like a bucket list race, badwater, 100%.
Speaker 1:That's part of my thinking. Around you get a build a resume for badwater, and I think Habanero is a help or race to have on that resume. So badwater definitely is one of them, I could tell you. I could tell you pretty much all five of them right now it's badwater. Utmb, leadville, western States, have a lean 100 and have a nice not like, maybe not quite as prestigious as the other four. Technically, I mean, though, it is a well-regarded race, but something about it just fires me up and and I know I can just sign up for it like it's not, like that one's a lucid to get into. So those are my, yeah, my five bucket list races nice.
Speaker 2:And if you could train with anybody in the world superhero, real person, doesn't matter who would it be?
Speaker 1:Arthur Blue and Ashley, and Ashley too. But besides the people that I, that I do train with, I would say, if I could train with one other person, man, superhero, that's, that's a great question. I think that I honestly think man, I don't really know, I guess I would say Kobe Bryant, man, before he passed away, just a mama mentality, yeah, work ethic was on mash, attitude was on mash, he said. You told me he didn't have friends, right, he just had acquaintances, because he had. Jim, so much.
Speaker 2:I love this story about Kobe because he you know you know how I feel about sobriety and my journey. But it's a story about Kobe Bryant where he was at a restaurant and he ordered an entire meal. He had one for himself and then he ordered one for a mystery person that wasn't there and had drinks and everything on the table for this mystery person and his agent said man, who's this? His agent or someone said, like, who was this plate of food for? And these drinks I thought you didn't drink. He's like it's my alter ego, right. Like he always had that yin and yang with him, always, you know, in that competitor mindset at all times and ready to flip the switch if you had to.
Speaker 1:I never heard that story, but that's like, that's epic and it shows like how just insane some of these people are to do something. I think we talked about it last night. But to do something extraordinary you have to be an extraordinary person, and that means being a little bit odd sometimes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, because I mean, it's like Kobe Bryant sitting there with, like you know, shots at the table and you're like what? What's going? Is this a test, you know? But no, I love hearing the whole Kobe stories. Or when he made all his teammates take his shoes off because they weren't playing up to his standard, like you got other girl.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that. Yeah, I think like last night, you know I was in Lubbock and had an event at a brewery Huge turnout, great turnout. Everybody was drinking. Obviously, I just drank water. Got back to my hotel, got second run of the day, got a speed workout in, basically ended up running 6.2 miles at 602 pace or whatever. It was lonely in that gym. You know I'm on this college campus at Texas Tech. Everybody's out partying, having fun, everybody's out in the streets. I saw it last night, even on a, even on a Wednesday night, and not me, you know. I got into that gym and it was. It was. It was lonely in there. So it's, it's what it takes, you know, honestly.
Speaker 1:And I'm not comparing myself to Kobe Bryant. I'm just saying for my version, for me, like this is my NBA, and so I'm doing what it takes.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and I think that work ethic that requires you know to get up at five o'clock in the morning or stay up late to get that second workout in, or take, you know, calls in the middle of a run and 12 miles in and know you still have to get another four after your hour long zoom call Like it requires a level of dedication and discipline that does translate over into other things in life, right, like whether that's competing for a job at work, putting four of your best foot there, being a parent, being a husband, being a friend all of these things require marathon like disciplines to be successful. And the best people that that, whatever category you want to judge that, if it's entertainment, if it's business, if it's sports, the people who are performing at the top of their fields all have some type of thing about them that sets them apart, and it often, time, starts with how disciplined they are and how they can, you know, sit in uncomfortable situation for a longer time and find creative ways to make it through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and embracing the discomfort too and realizing that discomfort is catalyst for growth. But yeah, I don't think like obviously Kobe Bryant was six foot six or six foot eight, whatever.
Speaker 2:Sure Genetics play a part.
Speaker 1:Right, so that plays a part in the NBA, but that's not the point.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the point is that like I don't, I don't, like there are a lot of people who are six foot six, who will never touch the NBA, and I think to some degree like, these traits aren't inherent. These traits are probably conditioned, probably learned, but they're really honestly developed and honed so everybody can apply like really high performance traits into their daily life and have success with them. It's not exclusive to specific people. There was a time where I thought I was very lazy. Frankly, there was a time that I was lazy. There's a time that I made excuses. There's a time that I was me attitude. Since then I've learned to kind of embrace discomfort. I've learned to kind of put myself in environments to grow, to put myself around people to grow, like you, for example, and other friends. You know you're the sum of the people you spend the most time with, the five people you spend the most time with right. So it's little things like that that create discipline and that discipline is a catalyst for growth longterm.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, and I mean, and I think we were kind of this is a joke, but I think we were kind of plucked to be together right around this time with Carl Weathers and Rocky man. It's like the next generation coming through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it has to be man. Rest in peace, carl Weathers. That guy was a legend and probably brought one of the greatest moments in cinema when he said there is no tomorrow.
Speaker 2:Like that. There is no tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean that has to fire you up, but no, Dude, he gives me chills, man, just thinking about it. We say it as a joke, but ultimately, I think people who are, you know, like, I think that we just get each other like on that level, right yeah, and I think that's one of the things that I want to work like I'm happiest when I'm working my butt off at all these things and you're the same way. So I think it just makes a lot of sense, naturally, that way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and as we kind of round out the episode, man, I just want to. So what is the next three to five years look like for Mark? Right? Like as you kind of build out your business and and keep on, you know, sharpening an entrepreneur mindset and and bug that you have right now, like, what is the three to five year plan look like?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So from a competitive perspective, like I want to spend the next three to five years I think I have definitely three to five good years of racing left in me so competitively, I want to spend that that time racing. I would love this is like a home run kind of moonshot thing but I'd love to make a U? S like distance team whether it's the 24 hour team, the 100 K team, something like that. But I want to just push my limits and I want to accomplish and build my life resume in competition, just do some of the toughest races for some of the toughest people and just have stuff that I can look back on when I'm 60 and still racing, when I'm 70 and still racing. But look back and say, man, like I was doing crazy things, like I think now, being 34 years old and looking back, I've done some. I've done some. Like I've lived a crazy life. Like I have a really large life resume and a lot of experiences and I want to continue to build on that competitively as well as outside of that. Like, and obviously I want to continue to build this podcast as well as build my personal brand, build my coaching brand, like I've been. I'm immensely lucky you know, so fortunate to be able to work with the hundreds of athletes that I've you know, probably thousands of athletes that I've worked with in my time as an endurance coach. I've been very lucky to have a successful business in that way, but I'm not done. I want to keep building it. I want to keep growing. I want to keep offering a product to people that I'm really pleased with. I want to keep making an impact on people in the mental health community as well as, like our community here, the people who follow us you know our new, our new listeners, our OG day one listeners, and then also like people who are going to find us in the future. I want to make a difference in community, like I want to. I feel happiest when I'm of service to other people and whether that's the people that I care most about or people who are my kind of virtual friends and followers and whatever else, it is.
Speaker 1:So, really, I know that's kind of a fluff answer, but the reality is is for the next five years, I want to be as competitive as possible in ultra endurance sports and hybrid sports. I want to push my limits and try new things. I want to continue to push the envelope on strength and endurance together, but I also want to continue to build this stuff alongside of you and have success in my personal career. I'd love to be CEO one day. Like it's, I think it fits my personality, my background in organizational leadership and I want to continue to play soccer at a high level for as long as I can. However, that is, you know, I treat every game like it might be my last. But who knows? I want to. I want to. I want to burn the. You know, burn the candle on all ends while I'm still here to be able to do it.
Speaker 2:I don't want to live in a dash. Go out with your boots on.
Speaker 1:But yeah, but that's stuff I'd say Forget the five year plan, that's a 10 year plan, right? I coach athletes that are in their forties. You know one of them was an alternate on the US 100K team. You know he's still running like sub 17 minute, five Ks, still racing ultra races at very high levels 14 something for a hundred miles, stuff like that and he's only getting better and better.
Speaker 1:So I don't see why, even into my fifties, I can't keep getting better. But I just know that competition is such a huge part of my life. It's really a big central part of my identity and I want to continue to hone that and and grow through it, yeah, it never goes away, man, yeah.
Speaker 2:So with your coaching business, are you taking on new clients right now? How does that look?
Speaker 1:Uh, you know, I got to a point where I had a pretty extensive waiting list and then I backed off coaching pretty heavily to really, really, really make sure I was focused on my career. I'm in a really good spot with my career. I have taken on some new athletes. What I will say is I'm always kind of interested to talk to an athlete to see if I'm a good fit and maybe, if I'm not the good fit that we thought that that I would be, or they thought I would be, or whatever it is. Maybe, maybe I know somebody who is a good fit for that, I can talk to them and I can make a referral because I know a lot of people in this industry and I'm close with a lot of them. But the reality is, if somebody reaches out and I'm a good fit and also like I want to be interested in what they're doing, right, because I'm doing them a disservice if it's not something that I'm really interested in.
Speaker 1:And I say it pretty much like flat out, like I don't typically like to work with athletes that don't have a desire to run more than four days a week, um, and that there's a caveat to that, right, because if you're just a beginner. It takes time. So it's not that I don't want to work with beginners, it's just that I don't want to work with people who don't envision a long term future in running, because that's where my passion lies. I love working with hybrid athletes, especially that are over development side, but there's really, you know, like I said, there's nothing off limits. They can't hurt to reach out, we can talk about it. But, arthur, you're going to start coaching soon too, aren't you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's, that's in the plan I. Um, I probably will start picking it up the back end of 2024 after I get through some of my selfish, personal, personal things that I want to accomplish. I want to make sure that, again, I'm not cheating them and I'll are cheating myself and and not being able to dedicate the time that they need, um, but right now, I'm helping a couple of people achieve some goals nothing, nothing too big, but just personal friends who, like, hey man, I'm kind of inspired by what y'all are doing and, uh, I want to go tackle a big fitness goal, um, and so helping those guys and girls out right now, um, and looking forward to definitely helping more people, for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm sure that will be an option then in the future too, and so I look forward to seeing how you, how you kind of grow in that. And one quick thing that's kind of funny is like you, you're talking about starting up your your kind of coaching career, which I think is great, and you're going to have so much to offer people. Um, like I've, I've learned you know so much from you. I've been doing this for a long time. But, um, one thing I think was funny when I first broke into coaching, you know, I had a pretty big Instagram following. Um, I had worked a lot on the strength and conditioning side, but I knew I wanted to work on the aerobic planning side. I had the formal education to do it, I had the practical application because that's helping people out.
Speaker 1:And I reached out to to one woman who was a pretty competitive runner. We talked a lot and, um, she was a pretty good runner and she said I'm just frustrated with what I'm doing. And I said you know I'd be willing to coach you. And I kind of sold myself, like I was like a, a really big coach at the time, and she said I just don't think I could afford your coaching and I said no, to hell with it, I'll do it for free, I just want to see you succeed. And um, I, I took her on and started coaching her and she was a 317, 316 marathon or something like that. Um coached her for a 16 week buildup and she ended up running 251 in the, and that was when the Olympic trough center was two, 45.
Speaker 1:Um and I kind of used that success and and I I reached out to a couple more athletes who I thought could benefit from it. Uh, they agreed to come on. So I started coaching my first four or five athletes totally for free, didn't ask them for anything in return, poured my heart and soul into their training, just like I do with all my athletes now. And from there the team just built up and before I knew it, I was coaching at 1.45, endurance at 45, 15 athletes and uh, that was really how I got my start in it.
Speaker 1:But, like I asked her to basically take the leap of faith on me, like you know what, I haven't coached any runners as good as you, but I believe I have what it takes to to get you there and this is how I would do it. She was happy with the plan. She took, you know, almost 27 minutes off her marathon time. That was already fast and from there the rest is history. You know, now I've worked with a bunch of athletes who who were doing the same thing. I've helped.
Speaker 1:Um, I think just recently I passed my hundred and 20th Boston marathon qualifier, 120th individual athlete to qualify for Boston. Congrats. And um, yeah, I mean, it's all well, they're doing the work right. I'm just sitting behind a computer. So it's more congrats to them. But I guess the point is it's it's funny, like how meager the beginnings were as you were talking about getting started and what you're doing and how it's kind of mirroring what I did in that. So I was just drawing a parallel to it, wasn't really doing that to humble brag but, that was a long time ago, you know.
Speaker 2:So that's a, that's just a testament to your business and your passion, man. So congrats on that for sure.
Speaker 1:It's a marathon, not a sprint Right, and I knew if I wanted to do it long term. Just like anything, if you want to be good at it, long term, that means being patient and doing things right from the beginning.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I think that's. It took a long time, but it paid off.
Speaker 2:Can't cheat the process, man. The process is the process 100%.
Speaker 1:If it were easy, everybody would do it. If it, if it were fast and the results came overnight, everybody would do it, because everybody wants overnight results. But the reality is there's there's there's very few relatively speaking people out here pushing their limits, like our listeners and things like that. You got to realize that people in the interns realm, no matter how good or bad perceived they are on their own times, the reality is they're 1%ers, right, people who have run a marathon, people who have run more than 10 miles this year 1%ers. So it's a. So it's an interesting thing, but but it's a. It's lonely out here, except for we have our community and we have our people that get us.
Speaker 2:No for sure, and I think I think with that man we kind of recaptured and reintroduced Mark Biden Horn to the, to the greater community, and kind of got people recalibrated to who you are and what you got going on for 2024. I'm just happy to be alongside the rod with you, man. To the wheels fall off.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, the wheels aren't going to fall off because two things. One, we're bringing our luggage with us and it's Louis like coach prime and then like to like coach prime. It ain't hard to find us. You can find on Instagram at bottom horn running Arthur. Where can they find you?
Speaker 2:You can find me on Instagram at arthurblue3,. Arthurblue3.
Speaker 1:As always, we're immensely grateful that you took the time to listen to our podcast. If you have any feedback, hit either of us up, let us know. We got a finding strong website in the works and we got some really exciting stuff that we've been talking about on the back end coming down the pipeline. We're excited to announce that the next couple of weeks, but until next time, everybody, stay strong.