Finding Strong
Ultra endurance athlete and coach, Mark Bottenhorn and Ultra Endurance Athlete Arthur Blue, are on a mission to find the strongest version of themselves. Episodes touch on topics including, performance, fitness, nutrition, mental health, and mindset. Please like, rate, share and subscribe if you find value in our content.
Arthur: @Arthur.Blue3
Mark: @bottenhornrunning
Finding Strong
070: Don Reichelt; Mental Resilience in Racing and Training
Summary
In this episode, Mark and Arthur interview Don Reichelt, a mountain ultra trail runner and current USATF 100 mile national champion from Colorado. Don shares his journey into ultra-running and how he went from being a triathlete to tackling ultra-marathons. He discusses his training routine, emphasizing the importance of going slow and incorporating strength training. Don also shares his mental strategies for overcoming challenges during races and avoiding the comparison trap. He talks about his nutrition approach and the importance of individual experimentation. Lastly, Don shares his recovery methods, including mobility work, saunas, and ice plunges. In this conversation, Don discusses various topics related to running and training. He shares his insights on replicating the mindset of a threshold run, balancing data tracking and training, the importance of tracking sleep, his future plans in the sport, reflections on the past 10 years, his interview series called Tiny Bench Big Questions, and the rivalry between Iowa and Nebraska in terms of corn and football.
Takeaways
- Go slow and incorporate strength training in your training routine.
- Develop mental strategies to overcome challenges during races.
- Experiment with nutrition to find what works best for your body.
- Focus on personal growth and avoid comparing yourself to others.
- Prioritize recovery through mobility work, saunas, and ice plunges. Find ways to replicate the mindset of a threshold run without overexerting your body.
- Balance data tracking by defining success before a run and focusing on simple metrics.
- Track your sleep as it directly correlates to your performance and overall well-being.
- Focus on the joy and purpose of running rather than solely pursuing competitive goals.
- Connect with others in the running community and engage in meaningful conversations.
Chapters
00:00
Introduction and Guest Introduction
03:04
How Don Got Into Ultra-Running
07:37
Training and Recovery Methods
12:42
Mindset and Mental Strategies
19:38
Avoiding Comparison and Focusing on Personal Growth
29:55
Nutrition and Recovery
38:49
Replicating the Mindset of a Threshold Run
40:16
Balancing Data Tracking and Training
44:08
The Importance of Tracking Sleep
46:34
Future Plans in the Sport
50:48
Reflections on the Past 10 Years
57:38
Don's Interview Series: Tiny Bench Big Questions
01:01:06
Iowa vs. Nebraska: Better Corn and Football
01:01:24
Where to Find Don
All right, I'll take a seat. What's going on, everybody? I'm Mark Bonhorn and this is another episode of the Finding Strong podcast. I'm sitting by with co-host Arthur Blue and we have a special guest on the podcast today, arthur. First of all, what's going on, man?
Speaker 2:Hey, what's up, brother, how you doing man.
Speaker 1:I'm doing well Just two days out from the race, so I'm getting a little bit. I've been antsy kind of all week, but I'm fired up today because we have a special guest on the podcast, someone who I'm super excited about. So everybody, we got Don. How do we say your last name, don, while you're on here? Because I can never figure it out. Don, what's going on bro?
Speaker 3:I take all sorts of different variations, but it's Reichelt, we'll go with that.
Speaker 1:Don Reichelt. So for those of you, most of our listeners probably know who Don is, but for those who don't, don is a mountain ultra trail runner from Colorado who owns a staggering 1316 PR in 100 mile. He has three separate treadmill world records, which is insane. Podiums at races that you might have heard of, like Badwater, first place at Coldwater Rumble, many times Salt Flat 50K, lean Horse 100, and many, many, many more. So I don't want to spoil it too much. We'll let him get into it. But, don, what's going on? Man, happy to have you on the podcast.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm stoked guys. I've had a full day, I've had some awesome intervals up here in Colorado today and I had some awesome strength session after that. So, yeah, the body is ready. Now we're going to work out the mind a little bit tonight.
Speaker 2:Nice. What part of Colorado are you in? Don?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I'm in a very small town called Fair Play, colorado. Everybody on this call or on this call on this podcast is listening knows of Fair Play, whether they know it or not, because it is more famously known as South Park. So if you've seen the cartoon South Park, I literally live there.
Speaker 2:Nice, nice, is it close to the animation?
Speaker 3:It is not the old. There's an old ghost town in the middle of town. That's like a museum that kind of has bits and pieces. That's similar, but no, it's a cool little community. We're up here at. My house is at 9,600 feet. We're way up here high in the mountains, so if you boys ever want to do a real track workout, come up here. Our track sits exactly at 10,000 feet.
Speaker 2:I'm actually going to have to probably take you up on that. I'm doing Leadville this year, so I take all of it yeah man.
Speaker 3:I am, as the crow flies, 20 miles to Leadville, just on the other side of Mosquito Pass. So come hang out, we'll do a training weekend up here.
Speaker 2:Nice and Mark will be out there pacing me, so we'll be good to go.
Speaker 1:Awesome, I will be there If you ever want to do a real track workout with us. We're sitting at 521 feet above sea level here in Dallas. You come in the summer right, yeah, it'll be 119 degrees on the track, though.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was like 12 degrees with 40 mile an hour winds today on my workout.
Speaker 1:We give you credit. So yeah, so I kind of want to jump on in, because we will talk all day if I don't get moving on this, because I'm so fascinated by you, don, for a lot of reasons. But first, why don't we talk about how you got into all training? And I know this. I've listened to several podcasts with you on it. I know your whole story, I've talked to you a bunch, but for those of us I want to know how you got into all training.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I'll back it up a fair amount. So I actually ran in high school and I wasn't a good runner. I was a decent athlete and had a good runner. I had baseball as my passion back then, but I did some running in high school. I never broke 20 minutes in a 5K in high school, had a couple of decent track runs, but that was about it. Really hated my coaches so didn't ever think running was something I wanted to do.
Speaker 3:Went to college, wanted some kind of sport something. So I actually walked down to the rowing team at University of Iowa. It was a supported club team but I rode for four years and then graduated and got fat, didn't have the team outlet, didn't have workouts, didn't have anything competitive and put on. So I rode at 160 pounds and I remember weighing it at 199.8 pounds and that was like the oh, like something's got to change moment. And so I actually bought a bike. I had a friend that was doing some biking, got into biking and then my buddy was like, hey, man, you should do a triathlon. And I said, okay, but I saw this show on this thing called an Ironman and we should just like jump right in Boys. I didn't even know how to swim, like I didn't know what the hell I was getting into and I was the fat dude with a bike that I wanted to do. So I ended up doing three Ironman races on kind of a whim and then was training for my fourth. But I had just moved to Boulder, colorado just like the most beautiful place in the world If you've never been, you guys will be there to some degree and I was training for my fourth Ironman and I was like God, I just moved. I was living in Chicago and I moved to Boulder and I was riding and running on the roads to train for an Ironman. I'm like what the hell am I doing? And so I kind of just had this like mini meltdown in the water one day of I don't want to do this anymore.
Speaker 3:I sold all my triathlon stuff overnight and this coincided with a buddy of mine that was doing the Leadville 100. And I said, dude, like I want to pace you. I don't know what this is, but I want to pace you at this thing. And back then, arthur, you're going to find this out the hard way, but back then you could actually have a pacer from Winfield up over Hope Pass on the way back, you can't anymore, which is makes it mentally. This is where you're going to discover how mentally hard the backside of Hope Pass is.
Speaker 3:But I ran him up over Hope Pass and into outward bound. It was the longest I'd ever run in my entire life. It was like 28 miles and he finished 100 and I was like, holy shit, this is incredible. Like this community, this like watching people just vomit and rally and run and just like people that have their sights set on this one goal and like I just wanted to be a part of that. So I jumped right in and I haven't looked back and that was that was 20. I signed up for my first. So I signed up for the whole Leadville series. So I did Leadman, my first real year of racing. But I signed up for a 50-miler the November before, so I was in November of 2014. So we're going on almost 10 years of this fun and enjoyment lifestyle of running long distances in the woods looking for snacks.
Speaker 2:So you went from no, no background and endurance sports to becoming a Leadman.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah, I have a similar mindset of like okay, if I'm going to do a triathlon, I'm going to do an Ironman. Yeah, I thought like well why the?
Speaker 3:hell not. Like, let's just do it all. I'm in Colorado. I didn't have a mountain bike. I never rode mountains before I grew up in Iowa. I had cornfields Like we don't have. We don't have mountains. So I was out here and I was like, well, let's just go big Because I would like. I would rather fail, like spectacularly, by trying something really hard that people can't totally fathom, than than do something that I know I can accomplish. Like I don't want to sign up for the race. I'm like I know I can do this. That's not going to get me out of bed. Signing up for the thing that there's a pretty good chance I'm going to fail at, that's what gets me out of bed and trying for that and working harder for that.
Speaker 1:You'd love that. It's impressive to see how much you've accomplished in really 10 years in the sport, but particularly like the last five years, you've just been on fire man and it's been an awesome journey to kind of watch you do that. And is it possible for you to give us kind of a breakdown of what and I know before you've differentiated when you're talking about training, so you're training once you have a race on the calendar? You've said in the past, right, and can you differentiate like, first of all, what a week looks for you in the off season verse, what a week of training looks like for an elite kind of ultra marathoner?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I think so. So after my the season's over, and so this year my last race was back in November and I took about six weeks off of training. Now I didn't take six weeks off of running, that's just six weeks off of like, if I wake up and I'm like you know what, I just want to lay in bed and drink coffee and I don't want to go out for a run. Today I'm going to allow myself to do that, whereas training I'm going to push myself out of bed and I'm going to get up and I'm going to do that workout. So that's the difference. And so I usually take some time in the off season and run. You know the volume decreases. And then now that I'm currently in training, it's really what it looks like and I'm a low volume guy compared to a lot of elite marathoners or elite ultra runners, but that's where the strength comes in. I know we're going to get to that, but so I train six days a week, pretty hard, usually two to three days a week of either tempo or intervals of running, and then the rest is very low, like I usually try to go low end of zone two and at 10,000 feet. That's pretty hard. You have to kind of humble yourself and know that I'm going to lead athlete and I'm going to walk up that hill and that's okay, because the goal is not to get faster that day, the goal is to really just keep the engine running and make it more efficient and really allow yourself to have more in the tank. So when I do throw the hammer down I'm going to be able to drain the tank and have a lot in it. So you know, that's kind of the speed and intensity. Right now it's like 80-ish miles a week. I'll probably flirt with mid-90s.
Speaker 3:You know, 100 is the number that everybody talks about. All you 100 mile weeks. That's a kind of a fictional number, like who really gives a crap if you hit 100 miles? A lot of people like it. Good for them, it doesn't mean anything to me. I can say, like I ran bad water podium bad water with.
Speaker 3:My longest week was 82 miles. That summer I ran a 13-hour 100. My longest run or my longest week was 79 miles. That training block. You don't need these massive, massive weeks. Some people do, but I don't, and so I supplement that with a lot of other stuff. You know, if you think about you're doing 80 miles a week. It's two hours ish, three hours, whatever it averages out to, of running a day At least 21 other hours that you can be working on getting yourself better as a runner. That's not running.
Speaker 3:So I focus a lot on things like I do one really heavy lifting session a week. So we're talking, you know, like a lot of a lot of deadlifts hex bar deadlifts is kind of my mainstay and building back up on those, a lot of other stuff there and then two other days of more body weight banded, more activation style strength that I am supplementing in with the running. So I usually do that a day before or even the morning of a harder session, just to make sure everything's activated, the body is warmed and primed and all the joints are lubricated, and then I'll, you know, I'll work those in. And then the other side of it that I do during my routine is I do mobility every morning, make sure the body's moving. This is all stuff that when I was, you know, 10 years ago, I didn't even think twice about.
Speaker 3:And now it's like okay, if I want to get this race car moving, I need to slowly warm the engine up, I need to get, get the spine moving, I'm going to need to get the glutes, I'm going to get the hips moving, because if those aren't moving right, it's going to be a terrible workout. So, so, realistically, I'm putting in, at the end of the day, like five hours a day dedicated to becoming a better athlete one way or another. And then there are other pieces of that too, because I'm big on breath work and meditation. I think the mindset of ultra running is an unbelievably important element that a lot of people neglect. Like you're running for 20 hours, the mind is going to be the reason you slow down or stop. Like, if you're not working that muscle, if you're not flexing it, you're not doing enough. So those are all things and all told. That's like five hours a day, yeah.
Speaker 1:Speaking of Leadville, isn't there? Isn't there a quote from the race director or something like the toughest thing that you're going to have in the whole race is the six inches between your ears, or something like that? Right?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the toughest distance of the race is the six inches right here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and that's true.
Speaker 3:It's totally true.
Speaker 2:It is so true, and I want to sit on that mindset thing for a second, because you've accomplished some amazing feats, right, like everyone is scared of the treadmill, but you set a record on there, right, you know, you tackle Leadville and became a lead man, and you're on a self-proclaimed treadmill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Like not even a yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's a whole different beast for people listening like Google a salt runner or go try it at your local gym and see how far you get. So I want to sit there for a minute and just talk about your mindset and how you get ready for these races and how you kind of you know what is your routine look like when it gets hard and how do you find yourself pushing through those low lows and getting to those high highs and finding yourself at the end zone.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's all about really coming up with different strategies and then whether that's how you focus internally, how you focus externally, what you're thinking about when, strategies to overcome barriers. So I say all that but that's kind of meaningless without examples. So external strategies like what, how am I going to get my focus external? So I would use this strategy. If I'm just hyper focused on like, ah, it's like my tummy hurts or my feet hurt or like like you're clearly hyper focused internally, let's change that and let's let's look externally. So I'll start thinking about things like how many birds can I count? This next mile? Right, it sounds so silly, but it forces you to kind of look around and get outside of your head. Um, I like things like counting for the next 20 minutes. I'm going to count how many blue things that I see.
Speaker 3:Like it's not like earth shattering stuff, but it's just something stupid that allows you to focus on literally anything else other than how bad your feet hurt, because that's the easiest thing in the world to just focus on. And the more you focus on it, the more it's going to hurt. And the more it's going to hurt, the more you're going to want to stop, and once you stop, it's harder to get started. So okay, so let's focus on everything else, but that, um, internal, uh, so things are going wrong. Let's just say you're, maybe you're running with a bunch of people and they're like, holy crap, like everybody's bad People are complaining. You're hearing other people complain. Like that's not a good thing, that's not a good strategy of hearing other people's pain points, because then it's easy to get wrapped up in that and this you know a lot of time. Point to point racing that's not necessarily something that happens, but something like a backyard ultra or a track ultra, where you're, you're all on the similar space. It's just easy, even if you're in the front of the pack, to get caught up in other people's misery. So something like that. I might look internally and just count my breaths and just see, like, okay, I'm going to take some very slow, deliberate breaths. I'm going to even box breathe or circular breathe or something like thinking about how you're, you're managing your body during those, those moments, to stop focusing on the negativity around you. Or to like even something as stupid as weather right, we all hate weather when it's windy and rainy and you can't control that. You're literally all racing in it. So let's focus on me. Like okay, I asked myself, hey, what is, what are three things on my body that feel good right now? And it's like, okay, hey, like I'm 30 miles in my stomach feels great. This is amazing. Like, oh, like that, that Achilles issue that I've been dealing with the last three weeks hasn't bothered me yet. How cool is that? And so you're kind of finding these positive things internally. So those are. Those are two strategies I'll use both internally and externally to really go about my day.
Speaker 3:And then the other piece is visualizing, overcoming your barriers. I'm really big on this, and there's there's two pieces to this. That I say is one. Let's say I don't know what's what. Whatever is happening in your race, something is going wrong, let's. You just visualize it and you kind of think about yourself. This is how I do it. It sounds silly, but I picture myself as like a, like a knight in shining armor with like a big ass sword and whatever that like. If it's a word or something like that, I just picture myself in my head just like literally chopping the crap out of it with this big sword. And then it's like, yeah, that's really cool.
Speaker 3:And then the final piece that I'll use a lot is actually like verbal self coaching, is talking to myself out loud. So there's actually some really cool research on positive self talk. Positive, we know. Positive self talk is great. But if you actually speak it in a like you are strong, you're fast, like your body hears it and interprets it as like reinforcement. If you say it as a you thing. So not only are you saying it and believing it, but you're kind of self coaching it as if somebody else is saying it, so it doubly reinforces it. So I'll I'll go and hope pass is a really great example.
Speaker 3:So there's a backside, there's a, there's a mile on the backside of a hope pass. Coming back up from wind field, it's like 1100 feet of climbing in one mile right, almost at the top. So you're like 11,000 feet or something like that, and that is the worst mile in the entire race. I'll tell you that right now. But every like, I coached the shit out of myself verbally and out loud there and it was like all right, like you're strong, like you are closer. Every step you take you are closer. And like I'm sure if there are people around me or like dude, like what the hell is wrong with this dude, he is like yelling at himself. But man, that's, shit works. But the key to all of this and I get, I get long winded so you guys can cut me off whenever- but I'll do.
Speaker 3:the key to all of this to anybody that's going to think about these is practicing them. You can't just show up on race day and be like, boom, here's my strategy. No, like go out on a run and use that. Like actually practice it. Go see, like leave your watch at home and judge your success of your run by how many birds you counted. Like that is practicing the external and I practice the internal and just see what works for you. The best thing that you can do in ultra or any race where you're up against the rivets for a long time and if you're going for a marathon PR, even a 5k PR, is like just have a bunch of arrows in your quiver that if hey, man, like the visualization thing didn't work at all, I'm going to try this now and one of them is bound to work eventually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I love that and I'm a big proponent of positive self-talk. Like people don't realize that your tongue is a weapon, right, you can use it for good or you can use it for bad, and your mind and body will follow what you tell yourself. It makes me think about two things. That makes me think about it I'll let Mark go is major pain when I don't know if you've ever seen major pain. But when he breaks the guy's finger who shot and he was like you know, I want to give you something to take your mind off that pain. So he gave him something else to focus on and he didn't think about being shot anymore. So that makes me think about that. And then, in pain and gain the Mark Wahlberg, the rock movie when they were down in Florida and Mark Wahlberg was doing his crunches, he's like I'm big, I'm fast, I'm strong. You know, like that's one of my mantras I like to tell myself when I'm doing that.
Speaker 3:Heck yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel like it comes from. There are so many different ways that you could do it. I think that you both made excellent points, don, from a coaching perspective, because, as you probably know and all the listeners know, I work with a lot of endurance, basically from 5K to 100 miles. I work with a lot of endurance athletes and you're like hearing it come from somebody who's accomplished. What you have is going to be so valuable for them. I mean, not that I haven't accomplished things on my own right, but hearing you reinforce it, hearing Arthur reinforce it.
Speaker 1:It's important, like we talk about one, keeping the easy stuff really easy. So that's like one of the three biggest battles I fight with any athlete. And you talked about how important it is right, how being able to not go to the well there allows you to be really successful in some of the threshold or the interval work that you're doing. So that's really important. The strength training piece was really crucial, but just the way that you're framing things. And then you talked about mileage, like how 100 is an arbitrary number. I have so many athletes that say, well, I want to run 100 miles a week and I ask them why and I challenge them, I push back on it and they don't really have an answer because it's so fun. Our body doesn't know miles anyway. Right, that's a man-made construct. Right, we're really going to have time, time under tension, right? And then we're testing the aerobic system. So we're testing the aerobic system when I think we're looking at like when I'm coaching a marathoner, like obviously we're gonna treat their training program Like they're an elite athlete, maybe not in the volume that they have, but we're scaling it because the best in the world do those things for a reason and For me it's it's so funny because they're like well, this guy ran 118 miles a week on average before he came in 11th place at the Boston marathon, but like that's on the point, because like he might be running like middle of zone 2 stuff at 555 pace, right, where this athlete might be doing the same thing at 930 pace.
Speaker 1:So so we're almost training double the amount that they would be training. If you look at it that way, right, from that perspective for that athlete and it's Some things are like you're gonna have negative returns after a while. So I try to get people one into the time domain, to kind of shut off the mileage thing, because the mileage thing isn't really Consequential for what we're trying to do, realistically, like it's just a unit that we used to measure. But time is probably a better measure and I like how you kind of took the pressure off that 100 mile a week thing. I think that was so important here. So thank you for that, because that's a battle that I fight a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think to kind of go back to where you started, this is, if people have challenges with going slow enough to be successful, right, because you have to go slow To have more in the tank to go fast. I guess it's just, you can't operate in the gray area and expect to get better. You need to go slow and you need to go fast, and then it's pretty much Training in a nutshell. But I I will be the first person to admit I struggled with this. A couple years ago.
Speaker 3:I went through what I would say was like a mental, a mental battle with that training element and I actually had to Completely deactivate my Strava because I realized like it was Strava that was causing me to think that way. Like I don't care, I know it's better for me training, but I was like oh, and it was actually like right after I kind of got a little notoriety as a Proathlete and I was like, oh man, like how embarrassing it is when I post like a 10 minute mile average run on Strava. And I was like now I look back and like, man, I want an idiot. That shit doesn't matter at all. But I had to deactivate it and so I will challenge anybody like.
Speaker 3:If you're going through that and you you Don't want people to see, you just put it on private. I let your coach see it, of course, like that's the only person that should really matter, other than yourself. But put it on private if you want to track it or just deactivate your Strava, because and I and I love Strava I think it's a great tool to connect athletes if you use it correctly. But I can tell you from first-hand experience I used it incorrectly and it caused like imposter syndrome. It caused some mental health battles around running and not thinking I belonged and then I just I literally left for a little over a Year before I felt like I could come back and use it the way it's intended. So I know that's a little soapbox moment, but go slow, take off your watch if you have to, don't post it on Strava. Just tell your coach yeah, I ran slow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean I've, I've struggled the same thing right. And then also I work with a, a bunch of Olympians like, quite literally, 1500 meter, 800 meter, you know all the way up to the marathon, stuff like that. And so it's weird like working with them being. And there's like for me, I'm like am I gonna be judged if I'm out running like 840s, right for my, for my easy stuff? Because they're Come, and a lot of them come from a time where they just used to hammer right, like they would hammer like everything in.
Speaker 1:So no, I those those things like battles, and I think in some perspectives it sounds counterintuitive. It seems counterintuitive that slowing down is gonna make you faster. But coming from somebody who's run you 1316 in the hundred mile, yeah, for your dog, yeah, come up for you who's run 1316. And I have a little theory. By the way, you can tell me what you think about this, but I liken the, the 5k, to the, to the 100 mile race. For that reason, like your equivalent, in my mind, a 1316 is like running a 1316 on the track for 5k, like if you were to look at the.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I agree with that.
Speaker 1:I think like a 15, like most people are gonna win a hundred mile with a 15 hour, 100 in most situations, like a pretty local same thing with like 5k road races, stuff like that. So I know it's not an exact science but I but I so like to put perspective.
Speaker 3:perspective is is that time is still, I think, the 76th fastest time in in history?
Speaker 1:Yeah, for the distance.
Speaker 3:So it's, it's taking what you will.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's, it's, it's insane. So so, if you can do that, what pace is that? That's seven, what is that?
Speaker 3:758, 57, something like that, yeah and then you said you're doing it, it's just my goal was under under eight minute pace for that race and I I ran like a 1945k at mile 96 to be able to hit that goal. Because I was just like everything hurts and I just want to be done with this, but I want that goal so bad I just I sold out like if I would have collapsed and not been able to make it at mile 99, I would have been okay with it at that point right.
Speaker 1:So I think that goes to not to belabor the point. But if if you ran a sub 20 minute 5k like we have a lot of listeners we're like I think that's probably like their, their 5k race pace right, sub 20 minutes or a goal for them in a lot of ways If you ran that the 96th mile of a race, like after you've already raced 96 miles, and you're running your easy runs at 830, 9 minutes, 10 minutes sometimes, right per mile, like it's safe to assume that they can also improve at those paces as well, right.
Speaker 3:Well I. The greatest example is Kipchoga runs his easy days and like 10 minute pace, like if. If that dude can do it, I think anybody can do it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but hey, as far as I know right now, with all due respect, mr Kipchoga, I don't know if he's running 5k after 96 miles, so Although, if you do probably be like it, probably like 1440, but Confident he's still beating.
Speaker 1:But hey, he hasn't done it yet, so right now, don's the king. That's a good point, so yeah, so I want to talk a little bit about about the comparison thing, because I think the social media so just travel aside, because that is something that I struggle with with Athletes and, frankly, myself and I think Arthur probably struggles with it too. But, but if we put aside Strava, you think about something like Instagram, like a very powerful tool for connecting people, like, in a way, that's how, that's how we connected initially. You know, and yeah, and a lot of people connect that way and there's a lot of inspiration to be gleaned from from Instagram. So we have to. But how do you avoid the trap? The comparison trap are falling into that.
Speaker 3:Man, it's so hard? Yeah, it's, it's. It's something that takes work Because it's. It's really easy just to look at other people and know what they're accomplishing and then Then just realizing that it doesn't matter to you at all. Right, like what, mark, what you ran in your workout is completely meaningless to me. Like different situations, different altitude, different events that we're training for, why, why would I spend time doing that? And then it. And then it actually be turned into a positive where it's like holy shit, mark, great workout. Like Good job, man, like it actually.
Speaker 3:Like I was able to flip that switch and say like hey, I'm seeing people do cool things. I want to support them, I want to congratulate them, because I want that when I do something epic, I would love that same support. And then then you're using social media for good, right, then you're using social media to support people that are doing positive things or doing accomplishing really impressive feats, which is Really, if you take a, if you look at the running community on Instagram, it's what it should be. It's not, unfortunately, but it should be that right, because you're mark your marathon time or Arthur your Leadville time. Whatever you guys get doesn't make me a better or worse athlete, right, I guess it's just a. It's just a data point in life of whatever cool. So Social media, if you allow it to, can be Terrible, but it can also be it's absolutely incredible tool to connect with people. Mark, like, obviously you and I connected over that. Just seeing some of the stuff you've been doing and then I see your workouts I'm like damn, like that dude's fast, mad respect and that should be the end of it.
Speaker 3:Like that shouldn't be any like I'm a worse runner because he's fast, like that it's like it's so, it's I don't know. It's so individual and it's so unique and I, I tell, I tell everybody, like the only person you should compare yourself as to yourself from yesterday. Right, like, are you better than you were yesterday? And I don't mean faster, I think that's important. Right, like everybody thinks like I'll have to get better, I need to be faster. No, like, maybe you just feel better running three miles than you did yesterday or whenever you did it last. Maybe you lost a pound and that took some weight off your knees, maybe you are faster and maybe that's your better. But like, as long as you're working on getting a little bit better every day yourself, who gives a crap if other people are getting better. That's, that's amazing, like I mean. I should say I do care that other people are getting better Because I want them to get better, but it doesn't affect if I'm getting better or not, and it certainly doesn't say anything about my skill level or my talent.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely I love that. Yeah, and I want to kind of backtrack a little bit because we didn't hit on this one part that I I'm Interested in hearing from you is your nutrition right, like so you know, we talked about the mindfulness aspect, we talked about you know your mental capacity and how you kind of break down these races and and and have positive self-talk. But what is a week of nutrition look like for you, don?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's a, it's evolving is the best way to put it. I so I just came off of a little almost two years of being plant-based, totally plant-based, and I made that decision because I I Try, I follow the data and I just allow the data to tell me decisions I can make. I think Sometimes as an athlete, it's so much easier to make decisions if the data tells you to do something. So I actually was. I did some blood draws and I was looking at sleep data and HRV data, overnight and recovery data and I realized that days I was eating a ton of meat, I just wasn't sleeping well and I wasn't performing well. And so I I set on a journey of like, okay, regular blood draws, go plant-based, don't eat meat, and continue tracking that. And for almost two years the data confirmed that that was the right decision and Up until recently that was the way I did it and I started and I should say I work with a dietitian as well Just to make sure that, like, the blood draws are on track. And then recently some of the blood Indicators are saying maybe some lean protein Animal-based lean protein back in my diet would be beneficial. So I introduced turkey and chicken back in. I'm allergic to most seafood, so that's, that's out automatically. I wish I could, wish I could eat fish, but Just turkey and chicken right now.
Speaker 3:Other than that, mostly clean eating I do. I log Almost everything I eat. Everything that goes in my body I log again. I collect data. I want to know what the data says. But realistically, the only data point that I care about every day is my protein intake. I calories will work themselves out. I'm not hyper-focused on calorie counting, anything like that, but as a you know, as a competitor, that's training pretty hard. If I'm not getting a certain amount of protein in my diet every single day, then you know that's. That's the element that I could start feeling deficient, not run as well the next day. So pretty, pretty clean overall. But if I want some freaking Oreos, I'm gonna eat some Oreos, right, I think. I think people get all caught up in. Healthy eating means like all or nothing. It's like no. Like eat a, eat a potato chip or three, it'll be okay. Like, don't do it every day for every meal. Yeah. Like have a handful of chips and you get back from a run and like if that's what you want, that's great. Like enjoy it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think like here, you know, arthur and I are probably we agree on this, so we're advocates of probably eat really well 80% of the time, right, and yeah, I think it's money, that balance and moderation, and that 80 20 might be true for, like almost all aspects of life, but that's maybe a different topic. But but definitely with nutrition, I think. You know, I think the human body is really resilient. It doesn't mean that you need to poison it and beat it down and beat it to hell all the time with the nutrition choices you make. But overall there's some wiggle room where not everything has to be perfect, it's not bodybuilding, right, I mean it's-.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and another thing that I always like to tell people is like everybody's unique. Don't see an influencer online that's doing one thing and all about it and think that that's gonna be the thing for you Like, just try it. But be willing to be flexible and say like you know what, whatever that was keto, carnivore, vegan, whatever that just might not work for you. And so be willing to try things. And that's where I say like that's what I did and I tried different things and I tried. I watched the data. I went keto for a while just to see what happened to my body and it just I was like six months and it just didn't work for me. But be willing to try things. But don't take like oh, I worked for somebody or this dude ran 100 miles on no calories. I can too. I think that's where the nutrition side starts getting dangerous. If you see people being successful doing one thing, you expect that if you do that, you can be successful, because that's everybody's so unique and individual. It's just people should be flexible with that.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely, and I think another thing I wanted to harp on, too, is something that we don't hear a lot of people talk about is their recovery methods after tackling these big challenges and these epic adventures. So what is a recovery session like for you or post treadmill records and bad water podiums?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I'll start. I'll give you the big picture first and then I'll get micro. So I basically have three data points in recovery that I look for that like once I can say yes to all three, I feel like I'm recovered. And those three are one mentally, like do I wanna train again? Am I ready to run again? Like because realistically you should. You have to be mentally ready to train to consider yourself recovered. So that's one. The second one is physical, of course. Do I feel any aches or pains? Is anything sore? Is anything tired? And then the third one is the data point Like is my HRV, is my sleep, is my resting heart rate back to what they were pre-event? And so those are three data points that I look at before I get back to training. But inside of that, I think it's basic principles that I think a lot of people are doing foam rolling. Nobody likes it, everybody should do it to some degree.
Speaker 3:I do a lot of mobility just to keep the joints moving. I think walking is a really good element of recovery. Little bit of movement, light weights, things like that Don't totally go cold turkey for six weeks. Movement is medicine. So move, but move the body appropriately and don't overdo it. And then other things I love saunas and I tolerate ice plunges.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so sorry. I had a little bit of a breakup on my end there. Did you say you tolerate ice plunges?
Speaker 3:on that one, yes, I love saunas and I tolerate ice plunges.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and not for me. Ice plunges aren't for me. Do you have any compelling reason that you think I should add that into my routine at all?
Speaker 3:So, as far as physical recovery, the data suggests that it's not the best tool, like immediately after a run. I think that's the thing that everybody should be aware of. But there are some adrenaline and dopamine reactors that get triggered, your shock proteins get fired up or your brown fat and, honestly, for me it's more of a mental thing, like if I go out and I sit in an ice bath for three minutes, I feel as accomplished as if I just hammered a track workout, and so it kind of gives you that little like okay, I'm still doing hard things for my body, and so there's that mental element of recovery as well that goes into. And then, realistically for me, there's the hot cold, hot cold. So sauna, ice plunge, sauna, ice plunge that has some benefits if you look into what it's doing for your adrenals and flushing your adrenals and cortisol levels as well. So I'm not a scientist, but I've read enough to know that there's some benefits there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So like a lot of the data that's available right is probably around post-workout ice baths, which at one point were like the gold standard, but now we find that it's probably actually just like rice as well. Like the rest ice and grass element.
Speaker 1:So it's interesting to see how science evolves there. But no, I mean, I think that some of that's compelling. I like the part where you talked about it just being like doing hard stuff again, right, Because I'm really big on doing hard stuff and I think that, like you can only do so many track workouts in a week, you can only do so many intervals hillary pizza, whatever it is. So if that's another way that's gonna probably have positive physiological benefits as well as mental benefits, then maybe I'll give it a try. Next week We'll go there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if you wake up and the first thing you do every morning is get into 30-something degree water, I promise you you won't do anything harder for the day, Like that is the hardest thing that you, just you will do that day and it's out of the way. First thing, Like talk about accomplishment at whatever. 6 am.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hope you're right, because some of these emails I get and I only work in shoes it's not like a medical emergency ever, but, man, sometimes some stressful stuff. So if I can get an ice bath and that'll be the worst thing I do every day, then I'm all for it. That'll be great, well and it forces you.
Speaker 3:What I really like is it like you can't be thinking, doing other things while you're in the ice bath, like it is like you can't be texting, or like you know fulfilling POs for your running shoe companies, or like it's like that is the thing that you are doing in that moment and like if you are not focused on that, you're out of it instantly. So get in there, focus on your breathing and it becomes very meditative, and then you get out and it's like, oh, that wasn't that bad. But as many times as you do it, the first five or 10 seconds never gets easier. I promise you that.
Speaker 1:I love that. I always try to find ways to mimic how I feel in the last three or five minutes of, like a longer threshold run or threshold session, you know repeats. Because, like you can listen to music, you can do whatever. You can try to think about whatever you can do the ABCs in your head you can nothing, there's nothing. You can't think of anything.
Speaker 3:You're like a complete blank slate in the mind and I've always looked for ways to replicate that without completely thrashing my body and I think you'll get a lot out of ice baths then, even if it's just developing new strategies, it's like holy crap, like this is a great three minute strategy that I can now take to the end of that, or the last one K of a five K, like now you have some things that you can do that like are gonna keep you from misery, because if you don't practice those in an ice plunge you're getting out instantly right, because you're forcing your body into discomfort for three minutes when you're a step away from relief. And it's the same thing with, like you said, a hard threshold work you're a step away from relief at any moment.
Speaker 1:I like that. I like that. It's just another, that's another arrow to add to the quiver right, something you can develop in that first three or five minutes of an ice bath. So that's that's useful. I feel guilty for having on this podcast, because I'm taking so much from it and I'm excited about that. I do wanna pivot just briefly, because when I look at you, just what we've talked about in the last 40 minutes on this podcast, to summarize you collect a lot of data and you know I talked about some of the things that are kind of probably Achilles heels for my athletes or things that I struggle with as a coach, and one of it is kind of information overload at times. So you take a lot of data, you track a lot of it. How do you find the balance between tracking what's used, cause there's so much data available to us now, right, and we can't microinterpret every little thing. So how do you? How do you extract what's important and make changes into your training with it without getting overwhelmed?
Speaker 3:by it, yep. So I think the biggest thing that I've done in this area is it's actually journaling before I run, and this doesn't have to be actually writing stuff down, but just mentally thinking through. And what I asked myself is what does success in today's run workout session, whatever? What does it look like? What does success look like to me? So I'm actually defining success before I go out. I'm not allowing the data to come back and tell me if I had a good workout or not. I'm gonna know when I walk in the door. Before I look in the workout, I can tell myself realistically is like, was that a good workout or was it not? And then I can look at the data. So I think there's that element of it that allows you to kind of buffer yourself a little bit from letting a spreadsheet or a graph or a chart tell you if you had a good workout or not, which is the biggest obstacle for a lot of people, because the first thing you wanna do is open up Strava or open up Training Peaks, look at it and be like okay, was this good, was it not? Like? That helps a ton.
Speaker 3:That's been a big change for me is defining success before even thinking about the data. So that's one thing. And then, honestly, the best thing I've done with data is get a coach myself so I can focus on some of the easier metrics. For me is just recovery and things like that, whereas, like I kind of hand over responsibilities of getting faster to a coach. I sometimes just wanna treat my body like an NASCAR, where it's like I just wanna go fast and turn left, like I don't wanna worry about like the engine, I don't wanna worry about what fuel puts in it or like what practices, like I just wanna go fast. And so having a coach that's a completely impartial third party that is looking at the data to tell me like this is good, this is bad, this is what we can do differently, makes my life a lot easier, because it is super easy to get the old analysis or paralysis by analysis. Like there's just so much data it's hard to know what to do.
Speaker 3:But I would say pick a metric that you want to explore and stick with that for a while. Don't do like the shiny object thing and start looking at a bunch of different metrics all the time. Like if you wanna train by heart rate, spend a lot of time in zone two and see what that does for your heart rate and your pacing and things like that, and just know that. Hey, what like oh, was that RPE4 and low zone two? Oh, my low zone two went from 10 minute pace to nine minute pace over the last six months. I don't know. Think about it. Just keep it basic. Don't look at every single data point Because, holy crap, if you have like a training peaks premier membership, you have so many data points that you can look at that are just like holy moly. This is so much information that really doesn't matter to most people. So define success without data and then look at the data and see what's going on with that. But keep it to simple data is my advice to anybody.
Speaker 1:Okay, I love that. And then do you still work for Aurora Ring right now?
Speaker 3:I do not.
Speaker 1:I got laid off in October. Oh, sorry to hear that. I wasn't aware of the change. Sorry for putting salt in the womb there if that was a tough time for you.
Speaker 3:No, it's all good. It's actually turned into one of the best life changes that I never would have made on my own Okay good, good, okay, cool.
Speaker 1:So what I was going to talk to you next was a little bit about the sleep. Are you doing anything to track your sleep? Still right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I have, I wear, I wear every night. I wear my Corus watch, which provides sleep data. When I wake up I take the basic metrics. That shows me my waking breath rate, hrv, resting heart rate, and then now Corus has a stress score. Actually, I started using a.
Speaker 3:The fourth frontier makes a product that actually has a EKG that I can actually look back at my overnight EKGs out of curiosity.
Speaker 3:I think it's overkill for 99.9% of people, but it's, it's interesting, it's very interesting and they have. They have sleep metrics as well. But I I am a very, very big advocate for understanding how you sleep, because how you sleep directly correlates to how you perform the next day and the next day after that and the next day after that. So that is probably the single most metric that everybody should track one way or another is either quantity of sleep, if you don't want to get some fancy metric just like hey, how long, how long were you asleep tonight? That's probably the basic to up to an aura ring or a whoop or a Corus or a garment, all have some kind of sleep metrics that you can see. Hey, like I performed like this today, I ate like this tonight and I slept like that, and that's I mean going back. That's kind of why I originally went plant-based, so I was tracking that data and realized I wasn't sleeping, so I I'm a big advocate of sleep data and understanding that for everybody.
Speaker 1:Good, okay, yeah, this is useful stuff that I appreciate that I want to talk about and I know we're kind of pushing it through this year. We don't take too much of your time but I want to talk about what are your future plans in the sport. You've had a really good 10 years in the sport and I'm sure that you want many, many more. So if you don't mind sharing with us what's down the line for you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. So what you just said, many, many more is actually the reason I started adding a ton of strength training to my routine is I realized that if I wanted a longer career, I would I needed to make some changes, and so I actually have. I kind of made an agreement with myself is that I would rather still be running when I was 80 than to win another race ever again. And so that was kind of my agreement, is like I am willing to, and it's funny because the changes I made because of that agreement actually have made me faster. You know, adding the strength and things like that. But everybody's things like, oh, you're like, you're lifting heavy, you're not going to be like no, that's bullshit, but I just wanted to be a strong athlete again and feel super stable, whereas I think we can all picture a lot of the runners and ultra runners that are pretty frail and maybe they don't last longer than their their 30s.
Speaker 3:I'm 38 now. I actually just I'm coming off of winning the US 24 hour national championship back in November and that's that's my future in this sport. I have really developed an appreciation for I think it. It takes in all these pieces that we've talked about right now and it puts them into one event and that's 24 hour racing. It's it's fixed time racing on a small, either a track or. My last race was on a 0.98 mile loop. You couldn't wear headphones because it was USATF sanctioned. So it's just like you and a bunch of people running loops and the furthest distance wins, like it's kind of my jam.
Speaker 3:I'm a better. I'm a better mental athlete than I am a physical athlete. So if I can compete with you mentally and physically, I think I'm I'm going to be better and that allows me to extend my career to. So it's just where I'm going. So right now I am. I am training for another 24 hour race, so I have. My upcoming race in June is indoor, 24 hours, around a 450 meter oval, and again it's indoors. So we'll see what happens. The last one I did was pouring rain for like seven hours and that wasn't a ton of fun. Then it got hot. So this is temperature controlled and light.
Speaker 1:We'll see what I'm going to put a really big number there.
Speaker 3:So that's a it's. It's a race series called six days in the dome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know, I know yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's. It's where, like Zach Bitter said, his 100 mile record and a lot, of, a lot of big numbers have been put up there. So I'd like to put up a really big 24 hour number there to hit. The biggest goal that I have of my next few years is to get on the US 24 hour team for the 2025 World Championships. So that's, that's what I'm training for right now.
Speaker 1:Love that. Yeah, I'm. I'm two days out from a six hour race right now, so I'm racing Racing a six hour race in the at a ranch in like South Central Texas Just sanded rocks not not a fast six hour race like. I've run tracks six hour races before, but this one will be the opposite.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just I, fixed time racing is fascinating. It's a different kind of pacing, it's a different kind of mentality and you kind of have to have a lot of things Going right to to have a good day, because you could. If you go out too slow, you might not make it. If you got too fast, you're definitely not gonna make it. Six hours is even harder because it's like that middle ground.
Speaker 3:It's like damn, like if you could hit 50 miles or you could blow up royally at 26,. Right, it's like what, what's gonna happen? It's just fascinating, I love it. And then there's the other element of like you're never out of it, like because other people are gonna make some mistakes too, especially when you get into the 24 hour distance. You know you never know what's gonna happen. Over a hundred miles and my current goal is about a hundred and fifty-five from my next race, I'm just gonna put that out into the world and see what happens. But like, from a hundred to a hundred fifty-five, like that is a long time for shit to go wrong and you know who knows who's, who knows who else is on the track competing at that point. So it's just, it's fun, like I like fixed time racing.
Speaker 1:I love it. You get to see what you're made of because it's it's got that every bit of that mental piece to it too physically. I think physically probably most people can run for three or six hours or whatever it is. But yeah, but mentally right can you, can you? Can you keep going when it gets hard because it's ultra race? Like ultra racing is easy Until it's not Right. I mean like this is gonna be slower than my like easy run pace at certain points and it's like you think you can do that forever.
Speaker 3:But I'm gonna put you on the spot what's, what's your goal?
Speaker 1:I don't know, nobody's gonna get 50 miles at this On this course just because it's very hilly, it's rock, sand and this was a rain the day before. But you know, you know, I don't know. This is my first competitive like ultra race since 2020. In 2020, I ran 46 hour or 46 miles for for six hours this is the middle of summer like I could have got 50. I think if I had better conditions, I would love to hit 40 on this. I don't know, I don't know how doable that is, but I'd be really happy though If I ran between.
Speaker 1:You know, arthur and I were talking about this earlier. I want to. I want to get out of just like I'm going there to win. I want to get away from that. I want to. I want to find other things that would. That would be, I guess, indicators of of my performance that aren't they don't have to do with just winning or what my physical performances. So I want to just grow mentally, want to grow physically from the race, but I would love to hit 38 or 40 miles.
Speaker 3:I can't control who shows up, you know 100%, and I think that's that's.
Speaker 3:That's in a nutshell, what is so great about fixed time racing is it is the ultimate you versus you, like it is. But I mean, at every other race you're gonna do at some point there's like, oh, like the lead pack went out too fast, so they went out too slow, and I'm still with him and you're kind of racing, even if, like nobody nobody really races the first 10 miles of 100, but there's always like posturing and it's like, oh, I'm gonna be in this group so I can stay here and whatever. But you know, in a fixed time race it is they're like, who cares if somebody gets a mile ahead of you in six hours, like you have plenty of time to make that out, it doesn't matter, and you see them the whole time. For the most part, I don't know what this course is, but it's just a mile out and back on the same road.
Speaker 1:You just go around a cone. It's not. It's not a fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so so you're gonna see him at every single turn.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, that's right, yeah, it's like oh, and then. And then there's like the blood in the water Elements, where you know if somebody in an ultra race is five miles up on you but they're vomiting in a bucket. You don't know that, so you're not. Like you don't have that like killer mentality that you might otherwise have on a track, where it's like, oh, I know I'm five miles behind, but that dude is puking in a bucket, not moving. Like I'm gonna move, like I you see him every three minutes now. Like it's yeah.
Speaker 3:It's a it's a different type of racing that definitely Benefits athletes that are mentally stronger or at least prepared mentally for the the monotony and the challenge of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think when I, when I ran 46 miles, you know like part of the thing was I read I led from start to finish in the race and I had no Like. I think had it been a more competitive race I might have gotten 50 miles, but it's just like it's. It's the opposite of that blood in the water thing, right, because when you're 42 miles in the race and you're winning by so much, if I stopped right now, I've won this race already and it's almost like how do you keep going at that point?
Speaker 3:This race is going to be. That was the same Experience I just had at my 24, when I, like I knew I had the win and the other guy looked like crap.
Speaker 3:At that point I'm like, why am I gonna kill myself? It wasn't a qualifier yet for the US team. Like I just I'm gonna sail it in. So I walked when I really shouldn't have or didn't need to, because I didn't have that Like I knew I had the win locked up, like just yeah, looking back on it, I wish I would have like kept pushing, but it's.
Speaker 1:It's easy to say that in the comfort of this desk chair Versus when you're right in the middle of July out in the elements running around a, you know, a rubber track. So yeah, but I mean I guess more or less my goals are really just get the most out of myself on the day, whatever that looks like, and control the control balls. Do what I can do. I loved what you talked about on one podcast. He talked about Having people who who are important to you each maybe suggest a song and you can kind of draw from that, and so I thought about that. So, if I do switch the headphones, I thought about getting songs together from like the, the closest and most important people in my life Kind of push me through the end of that. So thank you for that, and that's a tactic that I that I might use.
Speaker 1:We do need to wrap this up. So I do have one more thing that I want to get to. You know you've you've had an immense career already and I know you're nowhere near done. But in this past 10 years, what would you kind of reflect on or what takeaways do you have, like what is it that six out of the most to you like, maybe, of mistakes you've made or things that you've done that you look back on Now and would do differently? Yeah?
Speaker 3:I think when I so I got into the sport not to ever be competitive, right like I just did it to be outside and do something. And then I Made the mistake, once I started getting competitive, for getting of, why I got into the support, into the sport and to be outside and I just I put my head down and I ran and I like I look back on a lot of like amazing races that I participated in and I don't remember anything from the race, like I was so Focused on the singular goal of running fast or going X, y and Z, like I just I lost some of the beauty of these incredible places that I've ended up in my life. So that is something that I have, in the last couple years, refocused on and actually went through A time where I had to go away from having a coach and I just needed to be outside again and that actually was kind of the catalyst to the last couple years of some of the things I've accomplished, because I was at some point running for results and a coach and not for me anymore and I just I was like I can't. This is not why I want to do this. So I think the most important thing that I've rediscovered in my 10 years is is getting back to my why and why I got into running and why I go outside every day and and what I want to get out of it.
Speaker 3:And this goes in hand with the agreement I made like I would rather Run when I'm 80, then win another race and I say that 100% Truthfully and sincerely that like winning winnings neat, don't get me wrong. I love to win, I'd love to win more races, but I would rather Continue this sport because of the joy that it brings me and the mental peace and calm that it brings me. And for a while in my career I forgot that. So I think you know how I say that to me. And then my challenge to anybody is just like think about why you got into the sport of running and Think about why you do it and make sure it's for the right reasons and it's for you. And and this also goes back to the Strava conversation too is like that that shit doesn't matter. What matters is that you found something you enjoy and it gets you outside and it keeps you healthy and, hopefully, keeps you young.
Speaker 2:That's. That's a really good way to spend that done. I like that a lot. And you you also host your own interview series, right, if you want to kind of shed some light and talk about that for a second?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I have a goofy little interview series called Tiny bench big questions. That kind of started as a joke but it's turned into a little something where I travel around with this this little, tiny little bench, and sit really intimately close to cool people and ask them. No fluff questions, just really big of like like things like hey, man, you DNF your race, what happened and why? We just jump right in. So yeah, that's on my instagram and and on my youtube. But I just, at the end of the day, like, whether it's that series or anything like that, I just love talking to people that are interested in bettering themselves and and running and fitness or whatever that looks like. And that was kind of my excuse to be able to say like, hey person, sit down with me for a minute and have a conversation with me. I'll put it on youtube and people seem to like that.
Speaker 3:But that's, that's just in a nutshell, the joy that I get out of this industry and this sport and kind of what, what we're doing and why that you know, the three of us could probably sit on this call for the next Three hours and and not have a problem talking. Is this? It's fun, it's. It's such a joy for me? No, for sure, and I love it yeah.
Speaker 2:I've checked out if you. I think I saw you at t re. Now we're talking Were you? Were you at t re this year? I was, yeah, the place was there too. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:It was a lot going on. We, yeah, you know, you know places crazy.
Speaker 2:So I think we walked past each other and I was like I think I've never seen him before.
Speaker 3:That's all right, we'll have to connect soon.
Speaker 1:I gotta get both of you on the tiny bench.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, you think you're just both on there at the same time, I mean not all three of us. I mean, I'll interview you both at some point this year. Oh man, yeah, no down.
Speaker 1:I've been playing like tag back and forth at t re for like the last three years, I feel like so something like that, like, oh man, let's meet up and I'll go, and then he's, you know, a client meeting for something.
Speaker 3:So it's a t? Re, though that's, that's a joy of it. Yeah, my co-worker was like don came over here looking for you.
Speaker 1:He's like that guy's like my hero and I was like, and I didn't, I didn't know you're at t re at that point and I was like, I was like, oh really, I was like I didn't know he was over here and then I tried to find him the rest of t re and I couldn't find you those last year and I was like, or two years ago, and I was like, ah man, so I'm happy that we got to wow, like that's. That show is so tough to even make it like aisle to aisle without?
Speaker 3:Have you been in the industry? I've been in the industry. I started in the outdoor running industry Working for for Newton running back in 2012, so it's been 12 years that I've somehow, one way or another, been affiliated directly with t re. And like I can't make it an aisle in t re without somebody flagging me down. And then it's like 25 minutes later Me like hey, I stole this other guy, I'd be there an hour ago. I gotta go. Oh yeah, yeah, it's, it's crazy, it's it's over-simulating.
Speaker 1:I think 2024 is the last year in Austin for a while, and then there, I think they're going either to North Carolina or to San Antonio. Oh, no, kidding, they're demolishing the After the after the event. This year, they're demolishing the.
Speaker 3:Expo Center in Austin to rebuild it.
Speaker 1:I know, a few years ago they it was in Orlando because of like a tractor show and they were like oh, I'm gonna go to the next one, I'm gonna go to the next one, but I think it was in Orlando because of like a tractor show is in John Deere. There's, it's this year again. So t? Re is a week earlier this year because John Deere's got it, got it locked up in Austin. This year must be a big draw. I don't know, but um, I grew up.
Speaker 3:I grew up like five miles from where John Deere was born. No big deal, that's Iowa.
Speaker 1:Hey, I got one more question for you before you go. Um well, two more questions. The first question is who has better corn, Iowa or Nebraska?
Speaker 3:Iowa of course.
Speaker 1:Uh, okay, Okay, I expected, I expected that would be the answer. Uh, better football program too. You know I was much better than Nebraska. Um, okay, and then the last thing is where can anybody listening today? Where can they find you if they don't follow you already?
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's, it's at run with on on your platform of choice. Um, as easy as way. Um, I'm also like and I and I say this in sincerity as well is like, if you have questions or anything, um, shoot me a DM. Uh, a guy, I genuinely love connecting with people that have curiosity about anything, so, like it's, it's a joy for me to to talk to people and to connect. So, if you're listening to this and have questions, shoot me a dm. Run with Donna gmail, like wherever your platform of choice is, find me there and and Start a conversation. I I'll enjoy it as much as anybody else.
Speaker 1:Love that Well, don. Thank you. This has been so insightful. Um, I know I've learned a hell of a lot from this myself and I'm I think arthur and I are both grateful that you could join us today, and we really appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, guys, well, let's, uh, let's do it again soon. This has been awesome. I love this stuff.
Speaker 2:Absolutely don appreciate your time, man.
Speaker 1:Until next time, everybody stay strong.