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Finding Strong
Ultra endurance athlete and coach, Mark Bottenhorn and Ultra Endurance Athlete Arthur Blue, are on a mission to find the strongest version of themselves. Episodes touch on topics including, performance, fitness, nutrition, mental health, and mindset. Please like, rate, share and subscribe if you find value in our content.
Arthur: @Arthur.Blue3
Mark: @bottenhornrunning
Finding Strong
Triumph: A Race Recap + Lessons in the Highs and Lows
Summary
In this episode, Mark and Arthur are joined by guest Ash to discuss their recent race. Ash completed her first ultra and set a marathon PR during the race. They talk about Ash training leading up to the race and the importance of increasing mileage volume. They also discuss the highs and lows of the race, including the challenges of fueling properly. The episode concludes with a discussion on recovery and the importance of maintaining a positive mindset during races and training. In this conversation, Mark, Arthur, and Ash discuss their takeaways from their recent ultra races. They explore the importance of finding ways to make pursuing ultra running more tolerable and the gratitude for being back in the sport. The conversation emphasizes the growth mindset and the choice to push limits, as well as the privilege of suffering and appreciating the moments. They discuss the importance of discipline, doing hard stuff, and setting goals, and they share their plans for future races and training.
Takeaways
- Increasing mileage volume is important for training for longer races.
- Fueling properly during races is crucial for maintaining energy and avoiding fatigue.
- Recovery after a race is important and can involve low-impact cross-training and movement.
- Maintaining a positive mindset during races and training can help overcome challenges and push through difficult moments. Find joy in pursuing your goals.
- Express gratitude for the opportunities to participate in your chosen sport or activity.
- Recognize the toughness and indomitable spirit of others, and gain perspective on your own challenges.
- Choose a growth mindset and push your limits to achieve personal growth and accomplishment.
- Embrace discipline and do hard things to improve in all aspects of life.
- Set goals and break them down into manageable steps to overcome adversity.
- Incorporate strength training into your training to enhance performance.
Chapters
00:00
Introduction and Race Recap
01:26
Ash's First Ultra and Marathon PR
04:31
Mindset and Objectives Leading Up to the Race
08:32
Ash's Running Background
08:46
Training Mileage Leading Up to the Race
12:11
Low Points During the Race
16:07
Fueling Strategies
21:46
Maintaining a Positive Mindset
24:02
Finding Ways to Make Pursuing Ultra Running More Tolerable
24:38
Gratitude for Being Back in the Sport and the Desire for More
25:27
The Inspirational Story of James Lambert
26:51
Realizing the Toughness of Others and the Indomitable Human Spirit
27:47
The Competition Between Ash and Denise
28:16
The Growth Mindset and Choosing to Push Limits
30:00
The Privilege of Suffering and Appreciating the Moments
30:28
Discipline and Doing Hard Stuff
31:25
Choosing Growth Mindset and Creating Your Own Fate
32:13
The Importance of Discipline in All Aspects of Life
33:01
Setting Goals and Translating Discipline to Real Life
34:36
The Bridge Between Goals and Accomplishment
35:03
The Importance of Doing Hard Stuff and Stepping Out of Comfort Zones
36:56
Taking Tasks One Step at a Time and Overcoming Adversity
37:05
Ash's Next Big Race and the Potential in the Sport
39:16
Mark's Next Big Race
41:41
Adding More Climbing to Training for Effective Race Day Performance
42:54
Improving Fueling and Incorporating Strength Training for Better Performance
45:21<
What's going on everybody? Welcome to another episode of the Finding Strong podcast. I am Mark Bonhorn and I'm sitting alongside my co-host, arthur Blue, here. He is in the flesh and we have a special guest on the podcast today. She goes by the name of Ash. What's going on Ashley? What's going on Arthur?
Speaker 2:Hey, what's up, brother Hello.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not much. Just about to go get a speed workout in, so as soon as we're done with this, going to go do a pretty hard threshold run, stuff like that. What's up with you?
Speaker 2:Not much man Coming off of. I did a gym session today. I kind of poked out with the wind and I was like I'll make it out. I'll make it up this evening with another run. But yeah, I went to the gym this morning, got a quick lift in met con type workout this morning, so good to go.
Speaker 1:Nice, nice. So on today's episode we have Ashley on, obviously, and we want to talk a little bit about a race that we did 10 days ago. So for those listeners, obviously you know that we had been training for a race Well, me specifically, not Arthur. That race happened last weekend, so I completed my first ultra in three years and Ash also completed and won the race, top overall female finisher Just tremendous showing. So we're going to jump in and talk a little bit about that, but, more importantly, kind of talk about some of the takeaways we had from the race and maybe future direction and training and things like that.
Speaker 2:No man sounds good. Ask how you feeling.
Speaker 3:Feeling pretty good right now, fully recovered, ready to get back into my next race.
Speaker 2:What so was this your first ultra distance.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:How'd you feel leading up to it?
Speaker 3:I'm pretty nervous, but happy that I went into it not really knowing anything, so just what it is bliss.
Speaker 2:No, for sure. What is your? What is your training consist of for this race?
Speaker 3:Lots of good quality, easy runs.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Mark Botthorn, host coaching me through it, and it was lots of easy runs and a few speed workouts a week.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So with Ashley, like when leading up in her training into this race, first of all I guess I'll just jump. I'll just jump right into to what happened. So Ashley took first overall with 36 miles on a really really tough course sandy wind, windy, cold rocks, you know, 30 mile an hour, headwind going out. So every every two mile loop you went one mile out into the wind and one mile back Hilly, rocky, just just tough terrain on a on a Texas ranch. So Ashley clock 36 miles, which I believe puts her in the top five females overall in North America so far this year. At that, at that time duration, six hour race. But more importantly, she took home the win in her first ultra and she set a marathon. She's she's really being humble and being quiet about it and it's the first time on a podcast, which probably nervous, but she said a marathon PR in the in the, in the build up to actually winning this race. So on this course she ran faster than her previous marathon PR, which is amazing considering it was a six hour race as well. So she had to account for that.
Speaker 1:You know, I think before we didn't want to reinvent the wheel with anything Ashley was doing, but it was very obvious you need to increase in mileage value. So I think early on. And she has a relatively low training age, so she's a little lot of potential upside. But when you see that in my opinion typically you want to maybe err on the side of caution and run a lot of easy mileage. You know, someone like Ashley can adapt really quickly to just a little bit of stimulus. So just a little bit of quality sessions and speed work in there. So for her first training session or first training block leading up to this, I'm really pleased with the way she executed everything. I had to get on here and say that because I know that she wasn't going to say it too humble, I guess.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely, and so like. With that, I want to hear what you all individually, what your mindset was leading up to this race and then, on race day, execution, how you kind of execute that and put everything into place that you worked your way up to get there with.
Speaker 1:Well for me, I think obviously I'd come off a couple, you know, two tough years of training. I did really well, you know, get on the podium at High Rocks World Championships in mixed doubles, but otherwise it was, it was a, it was in a bit of a drought competitively. And so for me, the first ultra race back in three years, I really just wanted to get, you know, just back into the sport, reestablished, have a lot of fun with it. But you know, this race three years ago kind of took me out Ultimately. I thought about going a different direction after this race just because I had a really bad experience there and you know I'd previously, like the year before, I pretty much won, like every race that I stepped foot in or took, you know, top two.
Speaker 1:This race I didn't do well. I registered for the 12 hours. I made it only five and a half hours in, although I did run 30 something miles before I had to drop out due to a rolled ankle and I was really kind of depressed coming out of that. So it took me a few years but back in the sport. I just really wanted to reestablish myself and my main objective. I think you know I wasn't really worried about placement, as we talked about. I don't think that that's really important or a good measure. So really my focus was getting back in the sport and kind of pushing my limits and really making myself hurt on the day Because, you know, I think five hours into a six hour race you really find out what you're made of. And I really wanted to push the limits, test the limits and see where I was at and luckily, you know, I had a pretty good outcome.
Speaker 1:Winning the race was kind of icing on the cake, but really accomplishing my objectives for myself and the commitment that I had to myself to not, you know, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't walk, I didn't die in the chair I think we talked about, as a matter of fact, ashley and I didn't even bring chairs. There was no, there was no aid station set up. We didn't bring chairs. There's no chance to even sit in that chair. So that was. That was huge for me. So not dying in the chair, pushing my limits and really trying to race a really solid three hours was my goal. I ended up racing really solid four hours, averaging seven, 50 pace for the first four hours on that really tough terrain. So I think I'm ahead of schedule and I took a lot of confidence from it. But really accomplishing my mental goals was what I really wanted to do and I did that and as a result of physical first place came as kind of a byproduct. I don't know. What do you think, ashley, for you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I feel like going into this race I did not want to go into. I didn't want to go into it with any expectations of winning or anything like that. I kind of just wanted to do it for myself and I told myself I'll be happy if I get 30 to 33 miles in. So I went into it not really thinking big expectations. Just you know, run the six hours, do what you can, kind of thing. I did not expect to win, that's one big thing. But I mean overall I feel happy about it. I would do it all over again, for sure.
Speaker 3:No no apps, oh you go, no yeah.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say, like because you have an impressive running background, I was like this is not your first race. You know, you've done New York and you've done some other impressive marathon. You're a runner in high school, right? So kind of like, tell us your origin story a little bit, like your background and how you got here.
Speaker 3:Well, I ran in high school, I did cross country and then I did 300 meter hurdles. That was my race in high school. And then after high school, I kind of went to college. I didn't, I didn't run in college, we didn't have a track team since I went to a community college and I just kind of fell off the sport. And then I found it again about, like I want to say, five years ago, kind of started running again a little bit, but I took it a little bit more seriously. Back in 2019, I started running more and more and got kind of cocky and signed up for my first marathon February 2019 or February 2020, right before the world shut down. Yes, so I signed that. Signed up for that. It was exactly four years ago to the day when I ran my first Ultra, 10 days ago, which was pretty cool, so, and then here I am, you know.
Speaker 2:So nice, so you jumped right into the deep end.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I did.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so what is the? You know like, what is your mileage for the weekly mileage look like leading up to the race.
Speaker 3:Leading up to it, I was trying to get more so. 50 miles a week, right, Mark? Or was it more so like 30? It kind of just progressed over the time because I haven't had that volume before.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the goal with Ashley was really to. We talked about trying to get her into the mid 50s in terms of mileage. That number was pretty arbitrary, though realistically I think the biggest thing was like increasing her time on feet and just getting more volume than any of her previous kind of training blocks. You know, you have to be careful with people who have a kind of low training age or relatively untrained, because the risk goes up exponentially if you ramp up mileage or volume too quickly. So I wanted to be conservative, knowing that we'd rather get her to the line under trained than get her there over trained, knowing that she has really high potential.
Speaker 1:Upside that, this was just the first race of many where she could do really well.
Speaker 1:You know, previously, like her training volume was quite low under her last coach who was kind of just you know, more focused on, you know, helping her through her first couple marathons. But now that she's kind of got acclimated to that, I think we can really kind of ramp the volume up a little bit more, ramp up the intensity a little bit more. And it's kind of cool because obviously we work together and we're friends and we're all of us are in group tasks together so I'm able to kind of make switches just right on the fly for her and make adjustments for her, and I don't think that previously she was able to do that just because of the logistics of it. So that makes it a little bit easier to kind of monitor her thing. But really realistically we want to look at like time, time on feet. You know, I was trying to make sure she was training six hours a week, six and a half, knowing that we can probably get her up to eight on the next training block before her 50 K.
Speaker 2:Nice, nice. And so I want to kind of shift gears a little bit, because we talked about the highs, you know, both of you coming off of first place victories and both male and female, as you like, set in a PR and a marathon on a trail race, your first ultra over some of the low points, for you both during the race.
Speaker 1:For me, you know, I always have this thing in my head where people hit the wall. They say like at mile 20 or mile 18 or mile 22 in a marathon, and I believe, or previously believed, that a lot of those times the wall is kind of the self-imposed mental thing. But for me, around 32 or 33 miles, I always get this. I wouldn't call it a wall because I keep going, but I get this. I get this thing where it feels like hopeless, because I think you feel like if you're in a 50 mile you got 17 miles more to go still, which is longer than most of my long runs, frankly. And then you know, either way it gets, it gets pretty tough and right around that at the point you know I'd under fueled previously in the race, as it was because the aid station setup wasn't great for me personally, like I didn't set up my own aid station nutrition very well, poor planning and logistics there but as a result I was under fueled and I know that I ate a peanut butter and jelly sandwich real quick on the turn, like while running, just grabbed it out of the station and kept running and just kind of turn my stomach. So I defied your nausea for four or five miles, but overall, anytime you're running 38 miles, you know you get this. You know, whatever it is, anything really like anything over a marathon, you start to get this.
Speaker 1:You know you start to get these low points because like ultra running in a lot of ways is like you experience the highs and lows all in one race. You know it's not like a 5k where everything could just go great for 16 minutes. It's like, legitimately, you're going to face every high and every low and I knew what to expect. A new is coming. So I just kind of weathered the storm, went through the pain.
Speaker 1:I think the biggest issue for me was the fact that my longest run leading up to this intentionally had been 14 and a half miles, because this is a very early race for me. Obviously it wasn't an A race, so I was just building up, you know, to get back to where I was coming off of all the issues that I faced. And 14 and a half miles, so I had, you know, 24 miles more than that in this race. So realistically that was probably the biggest issue, just the muscular pain, but overall, like just kept it going. It was, it was tough. I don't know actually, why don't know what lows you might have faced in the race.
Speaker 3:But I'll be honest, I don't feel like I face any lows during the race because I tried to stay positive throughout the entire thing, just knowing that I had so long to go. So I was just, you know, oh, one hour down, I have five more to go. Or then I had given myself the goal of 30 miles, you know. So I thought about it and I was like I hit my marathon time and I was like, okay, you know, I just have four more miles until I can get to my goal, you know. So I kind of just did it like that.
Speaker 3:I mean, I did feel like the muscular pain throughout, you know more so towards, I want to say, mile 24 to 28 was when I was really hurting, but I tried not to let that like bother me. So just try to stay positive. And the people on the course were so kind and so encouraging, you know like they would see you and be like, oh, there she goes. You know, just running back and forth, and so that helped too, just your positive mindset and being surrounded by people who are in it with you. You know like they're doing the same exact thing. They're, you know just, you're all in it together and I do like that about the ultra, the ultra space, so that was something I really liked and so I stayed positive throughout and that was nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's the beauty of ultra marathons and trail running specifically is it's it's super competitive still, but it's a different type of competition because you know you're all there for the long haul, right, like you got a six hour race, a 12 hour, 24 hour, 100 mile, whatever the distance is, everyone is a shared suffering and it's no like it's no like bad spirits out there on the trails, if you will, and so like you can feed off of each other's energy and kind of push through it together. And also having to simultaneously problem solve, because every mile is different, every loop is different, every point of the race is different, right, and so you constantly are problem solving. So what it? You know? Kind of Mark, I know you said your nutrition was kind of in a shit, a little bit. How, how did y'all feel for this race?
Speaker 1:So, like leading up to it, frankly, I didn't fuel enough in training, which is probably a cardinal sin in that sense. I work with, obviously, as you know, about three dozen endurance athletes and a lot most of them are marathon or above, and it's kind of interesting to be like for me to instruct them how much they need to fuel and then not do it myself. It's kind of like do as I say, not as I do, in that way, and I should have practiced what I preach and made a little bit more judicious about doing that leading up to it. So, looking back on it, I would have fueled more often, I would have fueled earlier, and that would have been probably the most important things for me, and so that's where I look at it as a you know, next time.
Speaker 1:I've taken a number of things from this race, but I think next time one point of focus would be fueling, learning how to nail it, get it down. I did really well with liquid calories, but in terms of solid calories in this type of race I should have had more practice with it. But it's kind of also hard to practice fueling when you're only running 14 miles at your longest run. I only did that once no excuses. But I should have fueled on shorter run, so, moving forward, I'd pay more attention to that. Ashley, I know that your fueling strategy was similar, but you seem to do a better job with it, or maybe you've required less fuel for that race than I did.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean I do have kind of like PTSD from fueling, because I never fueled before any of my races. I didn't like I'm newer to the sport so I didn't know better about fueling. So like my first time ever having like a goo or something like that, I it like really upset my stomach like during a race. But I mean it, it was just, it was kind of rough. So I feel like I try and stay away from it sometimes and I have to catch myself and be like no, actually like you do need this, like your body needs it, otherwise it's going to start shutting down. You're not going to be able to keep keep running right now. So that's something I am am working on.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely so. Did you? Did you stick more to solid foods, or were you like gels and things like that?
Speaker 3:I had one gel and then I did have a lot of liquid calories and then I did the peanut butter jelly sandwich. Actually didn't upset my stomach, so I had two of those and then an orange, which was really nice. Those those oranges hit different, you know when you're like 30 miles into the race and you're like, oh man, this is, this hits just right.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely no. Yeah, those the H station fuel, especially, you know, like the cold oranges in the summertime or the, the water that's already packaged for you and you just grabbing and go it, it. It goes a long way when it's when you're miserable and sucking out there. And, of course, how did? How was you all's recovery? Because I know we went, we all ran together like a less than a week after your race, right, and so like, how was your recovery post race?
Speaker 1:You know, I I got to 38 miles in the race and I had time to go for another, another loop to make it 40, which would have been the third fastest time ever on this course. But I thought no, I'm not going to do it, because I have a soccer game the next, the next day, and it's very important and they need me there. So I was like I'm going to shut it down because, for whatever reason in my in my brain, I thought that those two miles were going to be the differentiating factor between me making it to soccer and not the next day. Needless to say, I couldn't sleep all night because my legs were like just destroyed. I mean, it's been so long since I ran an ultra and I ran the ultra relatively fast, and not only that, but I did on very low training, relatively speaking. So the next day I was thrashed. I was barely walking. I went into this gas station in central South Texas and this guy said boy, you got a hitch in your giddy up. And I was like, oh God, like I'm not walking. Well, if this guy pointed out because he was limping too and I don't know, I was just.
Speaker 1:I was beat up and recovery went pretty well. I was back of the gym just doing some low impact cross training on Monday, so that was good. Got kind of on the ski machine, got on the elliptical, got on the bike, mixed it up a little bit and did some foam rolling. Recovery was pretty good, but wasn't in a huge rush to be back, so didn't press it too much. And now I feel, you know, as of pretty much yesterday, I finally feel fully recovered. So eight days after the race is when I think I felt fully recovered for myself.
Speaker 3:I'd like to echo that as well. I did rely on cycling, just movement, because I feel like if you don't move your body after something like that, it's just going to stay there and, like, stay in that state of soreness and ickiness. So I tried to move my body. I used my Peloton, I went to the gym, I did the elliptical and I feel like that was pretty great for myself. I did really like that. My body has recovered all the way. Now I'm running normally, whereas this time last week there was no way I was running. I took three days off of running. But I did do other things to move my body, like yoga, stretching, cycling, all those fun things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, arthur, I think when we hit about the 50 minute mark in that trail run that we did last Friday, I think that's where I started to feel like, ah man, my legs are still fatigued.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 1:I knew that I wasn't fully recovered then because we were running on a pretty relatively easy or comfortable pace and so I had a long run planned for Saturday and I just backed off that a little bit because of that and just making that adjustment I think was pretty big. But actually I have two questions and I'll start with the first. I'll go with the first one first. I'll do them separately. The first question is you talked a lot about positivity out on the course.
Speaker 1:Obviously, the community and the people out there running were being very positive. Some of them have been running for days and were hallucinating, but still being positive, which is an incredible asset, I think. But for you, did you use any techniques or techniques? I don't know why I said that word weird did you use any techniques or tricks or anything like that that helped you stay in a positive mindset? Because I'm always looking to stay at a better positive mindset later in the races and I think I did a pretty good job this time, but I still could use some work. So I'm wondering if you had any techniques that you used or employed during this race that were helpful.
Speaker 3:For myself. I did think to myself I'd signed up for this, I'm here because I wanted to be here. Nobody forced me, so I feel like that helped a lot. I would say, not giving yourself, being hard on yourself and going into it with all these big expectations and take it one step at a time, kind of thing that helped a lot for me and that typically does help Whenever you, when you prescribe me a harder workout effort, I just try to stay positive throughout by being like I'm choosing to do this, I get to do this, I don't have to do this, I get to. And that's something in my mindset that's really helped. And then going into it with the race and I was like I get to do this, I'm here for myself, I'm here to do it for myself, and that was really helpful.
Speaker 1:So that's interesting, so something that you do like maybe in daily training, when workouts get hard or long runs get hard, you say that you choose to do this right, so you frame it that way, and then you're actually, by practicing that and training, you're saying you're actually able to apply it during the race. Yes, that's pretty good. It's something that I haven't really thought of so much, and I know that Arthur and I try to dive into the mindset stuff a lot, but I think that's really helpful piece right there. And then that is so true. I think about, like, ultimately, we're choosing to pursue this, and it's not always fun, though, right, but you found a way to at least make it more tolerable in some ways. So, okay, cool, that's really useful, love that. And then my second question for you is what was your biggest kind of takeaway from this race, being your first ultra? What do you take away from it the most? If you had to choose one thing and I know that's hard to do- no, that is really hard.
Speaker 3:Honestly, I would say like my biggest takeaway from the race was that I man, there's just so many things I could say, you know.
Speaker 1:It's hard and maybe it's something that you need more time to reflect on. I don't know. Like you know, for me, arthur, I think the biggest takeaway for me was like I'm filled with gratitude to be back in the sport and to be back competing, but I also laugh, knowing that I have so much more to give. Maybe, like on that day, I gave the most that I could, or close to the most that I could. I got a lot of myself. I know that the future is bright. I feel really hungry for the future. I know a lot of places that I can improve, but my biggest takeaway is like I'm ready for more and I want to do more personally.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and I think it's one person in particular that I know that was on the course with you, all that kind of was pushing his limits because he's battling with some things that are bigger than ultramarathons, but they kind of go hand in hand, and that's the gentleman who has stayed for cancer and actually you were competing against his wife and ended up beating her. But I don't know, mark, if you want to kind of highlight his story a little bit and how he kind of motivated you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so first of all, you know his name is James Lambert. He's someone that we're actually in a group message with. He's going to be joining our podcast as a guest and he is just a tremendous story and he's well loved in the ultra running community. Recently he was diagnosed with stage four like a very rare stage four cancer of the sinuses, and you know he got 20 miles in this race, he did the 12 hour and took breaks as needed, but this was really his first kind of event since he started treatment for cancer and it was so inspirational to share the course.
Speaker 1:But you want to talk about positivity. He was so positive, always smiling, yeah, and just you know it's incredible to be in treatment and then to go get 20 miles on this course on that day and for me, like it inspired me. But it also kind of made me realize that, like when you think you're going through something and you think you're going through like really tough times, that there are people who are fighting tougher battles and sometimes, in this case, like they're not always very obvious because he looked. He looked great, you know you wouldn't have known, but it's just eye opening that like when you think you're tough, there's so much more that you can unlock truly in the human body is the human spirit. Rather, both are just kind of indomitable and you can do some really incredible things.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I don't want to spoil too much because we're going to have James on the podcast, but yes, and then his wife, obviously a tremendous ultra runner. I think she's won, you know, over 70 races. She's won several overall, even as a female, and then she has a number of podiums as well, and so I knew that Ashley was going to be facing a really tough competitor. You know she she's won races basically from half marathon, where she's running right around 120, you know, all the way up to all the way up to like longer stuff, like 150 miles and above. So tremendous competitor. Both of them really respect in the ultra community. I knew Ashley had her hands full competing against her and while while she was gaining on Ashley at the end, I think Ashley's race strategy that we kind of built, like go out faster and hang on, really worked out in the situation because really ran out of time before she could pass Ashley. So it was really a great win, but just a great competition between those two.
Speaker 3:It was pretty awesome. Every time she passed me or I passed her, we're always smiling. She was always so encouraging. It didn't feel like I was racing her at all. It felt like we were just going out for a run and she was waving at me on the route. It was pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Oh nice, that's yeah Again. You got to love it when you can compete with people in a friendly, competitive manner and still come out victorious at the end. So with that like, how do you feel, Mark I know we talked about it before in previous episodes about the growth mindset how do you feel that kind of reinforced that?
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I've always tried to. You know like I think about. I have a tattooed on me, but I think about the lily flower, right, and it's this really beautiful flower that grows out of, like, the muddiest, murkiest, most polluted water. And I think about that when I think about growth. Mindset, right, like, whatever circumstances you're in, you can grow from them. In James' case, he's facing a battle for his life that he's going to win and in his wife, denise's case, she's navigating, you know, being a caretaker for him and going through a lot herself with this, but they both pushed their limits and chose to grow on this day through adversity.
Speaker 1:Ashley was faced with tremendous amount of adversity and it being her first race, you know, her first ultra race, right, going into the unexpected is always kind of scary, especially when you go into it knowing that it's going to hurt, even if you don't know the degree that it's going to hurt, and knowing that's going to take a lot of fortitude to run for six hours, especially on the course and conditions. You know, the same thing for me, like I had to face the adversity of being back in a familiar place, but it's been a while and you know all the stress and pressure that I put on myself from it. But I believe that in those moments whether it was the weather, the course conditions, the setbacks that I faced leading up the race or Ashley faced reading up the race or getting sick, things like that Like, ultimately, like one thing I'll say is I got sick, I had to cut my mileage and taper more aggressively than I wanted to, and I didn't panic and I think like, wow, I responded to that. What felt like a crisis in that moment. I responded to it really well and I'll take that into my next race. I was just very calm about it. Everything will be okay, what will be will be.
Speaker 1:So, like that, like just from that little piece of adversity, I feel like I grew monumentally, and not to mention all this stuff in the race. So for me, like I could have had to fix mindset and said, well, my ultra racing kind of competitive career ended three or four years ago when that happened, and what will be will be, and I'm stuck in this. Or, you know, accept my fate or destiny, or I could go out and create my own fate or destiny and I chose growth mindset and I'd choose it every time. Right, there's really no comfort in not pushing your limits and realistically like there's no growth that's going to happen within your own comfort zone. So I'm happy that I was apprehensive about coming back, but I ultimately did it and it feels exhilarating and I feel stronger than ever before.
Speaker 3:And you didn't have to do it. You got to do it, you chose to, and it was pretty cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's that's a great way that you frame it, but the reality is I don't think I chose it Like. I think, like this is just who I am. And I think for a long time I was fighting it. I was like trying to go through this self love thing and be like I don't need competition, I don't need that, I don't really need that stuff. But I love that stuff and I'm more fulfilled and happy when I'm pushing my limits and I'm around people like you two, who, who are also pushing their limits and want the and want the most. So for me, that's I'm just fired up is what I'm taking away from that, you know.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely. And I think, like I said, like it's a privilege to suffer and I think a lot of people don't understand that and don't want to work for it and don't want to put themselves in those uncomfortable situations out of fear or just laziness or whatever, whatever it is. But I know, when you and I ran at 0 point last weekend, we saw a mom and her son and he was handicapped. You know, like she was feeding him at the park and I'm like you know how much he would probably enjoy the ability to just take a lap around the park without assistance from his mom, or how much her mom, his mom, would love to see her son doing what we were doing and just do things on his own and have that independence as an adult.
Speaker 2:And I think you know a lot of people don't appreciate these moments that we have right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that you know one, that perspective of running by them and you calling that out like that's so true. I think it really pains me to see people kind of waste away their abilities and accomplish less than they're capable of, particularly when there are people who would do anything for another shot at life or a different life or, you know, whatever it is, and I try to be aware of that. Like what we get to do is a gift, you know, and it's not for everybody, I suppose, but at the end of the day, like that, that's such a true perspective and it was very eye-opening to see that.
Speaker 2:but yeah, I think it translates over like, yeah, sure, we're talking about running right now, but I think when you have that discipline to get up and go run in the conditions and push yourself for six hours or and knock out 30 plus miles or do a 50 mile race or 100 mile, whatever, a marathon, 5k, whatever your distance, is that discipline translates over to your real life, your professional and personal life, and you set goals for yourself and whatever you know ambitions you might have professionally, like it all translates and it all works in tandem to get you to those next levels that you want to get to. And so we're talking about running, because it's relatable right now, but to me it's bigger than running. It's how you live your life. I'm not saying everyone should live like a monk I do personally, but that's because I have to be that way, but it doesn't work for everyone. But I do think that that discipline is what sets people apart and what people lack.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, you know, that's so true. Abraham Lincoln said discipline is the bridge between goals and accomplishment. Right, like everybody has goals, but it requires discipline to make those goals and accomplishment. And that is. I don't know, that was 160 years ago, but it's still applicable, even even right now.
Speaker 1:And the truth is simply that, and we know that, when you do hard stuff, when you exercise your mind muscle we talk about this all the time, arthur, but you become better at doing hard stuff in all aspects of life, just as the same when you quit, when things get hard and you take your foot off the break or you don't stay the course, it becomes then easier. You create literal neural pathways to make it easier to quit. So do you want to make it? Do you want to make those and forge those neural pathways or neural connections to making yourself accomplishments, or do you want to forge them to making yourself quit? And really that's the decision you're facing right there, and for me, yeah. So yeah, it trickles way over in the life. It's more than about running, it was never just about running right, and it makes you better at everything that you do. So doing hard stuff, there is no growth and comfort, you know, so it's.
Speaker 3:One thing that I have learned and kind of incorporated into my own life in general has been I give myself 10 minutes of a task. If I don't want to be doing anything and I know it's going to be hard or it's going to be the weather is going to be crap outside or something I just give myself 10 minutes and I say I'm going to run for 10 minutes or I'm going to work on this email for 10 minutes and then after that if I still feel the same way, then I'm going to stop. But typically once you get into that 10 minutes you want to keep going. You're like I'm already 10 minutes in, why not do another 10 minutes? So you just give yourself little steps in that and I feel like that kind of helps your mindset rather than it being like one big monumental goal or something that you have to hit.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. One lap at a time, one step at a time. Don't think about the entire six hour. Think about the hour that you're in right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and like little mini chunks, it's easier to digest for yourself, rather than it being something so huge to where it's like, oh my gosh, I can't. That way, you can be like I can do this, rather than saying I cannot do this.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely. And kind of keeping with that, what's your next big goal for 2024, a big race that you have coming up.
Speaker 3:My next big race that I have coming up. It's not set in stone just yet, but I do have my eyes on another 50K coming up in April, so we'll see how that goes she's got the ultra bug now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do.
Speaker 3:It's really bitten me.
Speaker 2:So once you go ultra, you never go back.
Speaker 1:So I've pulled up. We were talking about Denise Ashley's kind of competitor in the race and just to give you an idea of the woman that she went out and raced with and beat, so pulling up her ultra sign up. She's one or. She's raced in over 102 races on ultra sign up. She's won more than 65 races. She has an overall rank of 92% on ultra sign up and most recently she came second overall at the Cocodona Sedonia Cannons 125, second overall at Cape Mountain 50K, top 10 at Never Summer 100 mile and then second overall at Hurt 100.
Speaker 1:Razo's been the US 100 mile trail championship. She ran 1701 for 100 miles to come second overall. I mean this is somebody like. This is all very recent and for Ashley to go out and compete with her and to actually beat her in her first I mean Denise is a tremendous competitor at Hall of Famer in my mind and for Ashley to go do that shows Ashley's upside and potential in the sport, so I'm really excited for that. I feel very fortunate that I get to coach her because initially she asked me to coach her several times and I said no and happy that we made it work out and everything like that, because the upside for Ashley is just whether she'll tell you that or not is tremendous, so I take that away from the race. What a debut from Ashley as a coach and a friend. As a coach and a friend, I couldn't be happier with her performance and what she did. I'm really fired up for her.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely yeah, as you crushed it, and I can't wait to see how you keep going up and up and up with your ultra career.
Speaker 3:I'm excited to see where it goes. It'll be fun.
Speaker 2:Mark, what's next for you on the calendar? I know we're doing grasslands. Yeah, I'm like a little warm up for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm going to do grasslands kind of as really mostly there just to support you because you're running the 50 mile. So I'm going to do that as kind of a long run, you know, just to keep going. I don't want to taper at all, but really the big race on the calendar for me is going to be Habanero at the same ranch in August, in the hottest time of the year, one of the hottest races. But I really want to work towards getting into bad water one day. I want to build that resume and I think that's a perfect race for it. So all systems go towards Habanero for now, but I'll do probably two races in the lead up to it. I probably do Coyote trail run and then before that I'll do grasslands, just because that's an amazing race and a very competitive race and just kind of see where I stack up. But treat it as a long run and just to really cheer you on. I know you got grasslands 50 mile next and you got Leadville in August, anything in between.
Speaker 2:I'm sure I'll bang out another like a train and run in between those two. So grasslands and then something in between there, and then Leadville is my big one this year, of course. You know that redemption a hundred mile or from last year, which again we'll have a whole episode on that. I got that headland. Yeah, exactly, I keep a headland, two of them in my truck at all times now it's like a inspectable items kind of like my driver's license and my bank card and my headland. And then I got into the run, the rut and big sky in Montana. So I will be doing that one in September and then I think that's all I might have bandwidth for this year, but I'm sure we'll figure out something else.
Speaker 1:Cool. So one tough question for each of you before we go. So for you, arthur, since you're talking about you know basically what you have over the summer Leadville, then into Montana. What are you going to add in from now until then in your training that you think is going to make you more effective on race day?
Speaker 2:More climbing because every race that I'm doing will have. You know, obviously, leadville, you're in Iraqis, big sky, montana, you're doing a lot of climbing there and that's kind of something that unfortunately for us flatlanders here in this part of Texas we can't really replicate like a true mountain run without driving six, seven hours to get that type of climbing. So trying to be creative with that you know Stairmaster, enclan, treadmill, parking lot, parking decks, so yeah, anyway I can get more climbing is something I want to implement into my training because we have the poor men's altitude training with the heat and humidity here in the summertime.
Speaker 2:So I know I'll get a lot of that. He's just really the climate.
Speaker 1:Good, yeah, no, I think that's. I think that's important is also, I'm going to have to. I'm gonna have to do some climbing too, because, although I prefer more runnable ultras in general, I have, I'm pacing you, I get you out Leadville, so so, yeah, I'm gonna have to do that equally. Yeah, that's a good one, the climbing. Actually, what? What are you going to? What are you going to add in between now and your next race that you think's gonna help you on race day?
Speaker 3:two big things I would have to say to my fueling 100%. I need to work on that, that's something that I'm really bad about. And strength training Strength training, I feel like would benefit me a lot and for my longer races and longer mileage, it all my the strength will help pull me through.
Speaker 1:That's perfect. Yeah, I think strength training is important. Anyway, I got caught on this tangent yesterday. But strength training so important For endurance athletes. Obviously in Arthur you and I push that all the time, but not only that. I mean, if you think about Female endurance athletes are actually less likely statistically to want to engage in strength training even than males, and it's already at a low rate as it is. But building muscle and bone density is probably the best thing that you can do for longevity. You know the amount of muscle you're able to put on and maintain between 30 and 60. Really that really determines how you're gonna live your life between 60 and 90, and I still want to be killing it when I'm 90. So Really, weight training is associated with a higher quality of life later into your last decade and I think it's really important that I really wait, trained for that reason, but from a performance perspective, and it's hard to argue the results. So we have a program set up for for Ashley that she's gonna be taking on to, first and foremost, gain a little muscle. She doesn't have a whole lot of background in it, but but yeah, I think that's a great ad.
Speaker 1:I think if you're not doing strength training you should be. Reach out to Arthur, reach out to Myself. We're happy to talk you through it. And then for me, I'll ask myself the question too. But for me, I think the biggest thing I want to add on is I want to increase my training volume by about 25%, and not all of that to come from running, obviously. So I'm gonna implement some low impact cross training.
Speaker 1:Just got the gravel bike purchase tuned up ready to go, so we spend some time on the gravel bike. I'm gonna spend more time straight training than the previous cycle, but also and that'll be a really fun experiment because I'm Implementing a new strength training program and protocol, so I'm really happy to see the results from it. But it's based in science. I know it's gonna work. But I think the other thing that I'm gonna add is I'm gonna add a lot of Sled work and weighted vest work, so I'm excited to add those back in and get 25% Probably, you know, 20 to 30% more training each week Just by being really smart and dedicated with my time ball. So a lot of it's gonna come from low impact cross training on top of the running.
Speaker 3:Nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so, arthur, anything else to add before we, before we depart this episode?
Speaker 2:No, brother, I'm proud of y'all. I'm glad to be on the journey with y'all. That's really all I got, man.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, we are gonna, before we belabor the subject too much, we're gonna go ahead and sign off. But I will say if you found any value in this episode, please like, share, subscribe, comment. That's really the biggest thing for us. If you think somebody else will find value in this, in this episode, please share it. Ashley, thanks for joining us today. Thanks for sharing a little bit of your story. We hope to have you back on the podcast on a more frequent cadence since you, since you train with us a lot. And then Arthur, as always, thanks for the time. Until next time, everybody, stay strong.