185 Miles South
A hardcore punk podcast.
185 Miles South
25. John Phaneuf (Ill Repute)
This week I interview John Phaneuf, the singer of Ill Repute. We talk about:
- Getting into punk
- Moving to San Diego in 81
- San Diego Hardcore shows in 81
- Getting chased by rednecks in Santee
- Starting Ill Repute
- Being bummed on Rodney choosing "Clean Cut American Kid"
- Recording Land of No Toilets
- What Happens Next and the 84 tour with Scared Straight
- The weird late 80's
- Transition in '89
- Big Rusty Balls and leaving the band in the early 90's
- Getting the classic band back together in the 2000's.
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185 miles south. A hardcore punk rock podcast.
SPEAKER_02:Hey, everyone. To support the podcast, please like, rate, and review on wherever you listen to podcasts and subscribe. All that stuff really matters. Just take the extra minute and figure out how to give it five stars or whatever. And if you could leave a short little review, that would be sick. I would appreciate it. Also, if you love the podcast, please consider donating patreon.com slash 185milesouth. That's patreon.com slash 185milesouth. You can donate$1 a month,$2 a month, or$3 a month. There's different tiers. Eventually, I'd really like to do some special things for the people that... that donate. Also, get at me, 185milesouth at gmail.com, or you can shoot me a message through Instagram or through Facebook or whatever. I want to know, who do you want me to have on here? If there's any questions you would have liked for any of the previous guests, I got no problem going back. We can do a little phone follow-up. Yeah, and especially for the Patreons, anything you guys want, let me know, and I will... Do it on this podcast. Do you want me to cold call someone? I'll do it. I don't give a fuck. So yeah, I appreciate all the support. This is another episode. Thank you to Ishmael Hernandez for letting me record in his backyard. Trying to, again, like I said the previous week, I'm trying to do all these in person. I think it leads to a better interview. It's face-to-face. People open up more. It's just more personable. But, you know, Sometimes I can have people go to me, and I'm set up in a decent space, and sometimes I need to go to people. So this one was taken in Ishmael's backyard again, like we did the previous one. And so there is some noise in the background. It was kind of a windy day, so forgive me. But I think the interview is great. The best story of the interview is in the last one minute, so don't give up on this one. It's pretty funny. Funny story from John. And this interview is with John from Ill Repute. And thanks for listening, guys. I hope you enjoy the show. Get in touch. Thanks. Jump right in. We can do that nice soft open that people love.
SPEAKER_03:I like that.
SPEAKER_02:I know. You get your song for the intro. I know. It's cool. But of course. Who's not going to use it? Yeah. Right? It's the biggest no-brainer ever.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Yeah. It's like...
SPEAKER_02:Whose idea was that song? Was Oxnard by Yodapu?
SPEAKER_01:You know, I don't know the answer to that question because it was... But the funny thing, it was done... At that point, it was... We were kind of making fun of Oxnard.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because...
SPEAKER_01:Well, there was nothing to be proud of Oxnard for. You know, we were from Oxnard. Sure. But there was no... You know, there was no Nardcore at that point. Yeah. But... We kind of just all would make jokes about Oxnard. Sure. Because it's such a crazy name and this and that. But we had... By the time the song Oxnard came out, we had a pretty good crew of friends. Yeah. Because the way we all came together was pretty interesting when we met the guys from Dr. No. And all that was a really... It kind of came in stages.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So what year do you think that starts?
SPEAKER_01:Well... I
SPEAKER_02:guess I should first off say, today we have John Fana from Ill Repute.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, okay. Hi, everybody. Because I think it was interesting because the whole punk rock thing in Oxnard was... because it was going long before we knew what it was, but the rotters. Sure. And I remember seeing the rotters spray-painted by the Esplanade. It was on the overpass.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, they tagged the overpass.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it was there forever. It said the rotters. Wow. And we didn't know what it was, but I remember thinking that, thinking, oh, that's kind of cool, whatever it is. Yeah. And I was still listening to... like non-punk rock well i was like devo sure devo was like those big in the skate world and the surf world and we just loved you know we devo kind of changed our world pulled us out of um rock yeah zeppelin and all that you know that stuff and cheap trick i was weighing the cheap trick and you know you would notice yeah you would just notice like certain songs that would attract my attention and rock yeah like where it kind of things kind of lost control oh Like, there was an Aerosmith song where he just started... Okay. Like, draw the line or something. I remember just going, wow. You know, something, like, woke me up.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you just latch on to one wild song.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and just, like, certain songs by Queen, you know? And, you know, so... But anyway, so then... That's one of the things you start going backwards and going in. But so then we kind of got into that. There was Tom Niemeyer who was in The Accused. I don't know if you knew Tom. No. Tom Niemeyer lived in Oxnard, and he was... ahead of the game and i had i was into you know we were all in the devo and this and that and uh and he gave me a stack of these records one day what year do you think this is this was uh i was in high 70 78 or 9 okay and are
SPEAKER_02:you already friends with jim and tony
SPEAKER_01:carl yeah Not Carl. Because
SPEAKER_02:Carl came in
SPEAKER_01:as a rock drummer later. I met Jim when I was 10. Okay, great. He lived across the street. We lived on the military base. Okay. But anyway, so I met Tony. Punk rock was not on our radars yet.
SPEAKER_02:So Niedermeyer gives you a stack of records.
SPEAKER_01:Niedermeyer gives me a... Did you know Tom Niedermeyer? Oh, wait. Yeah, Niemeyer gives me a stack of records, and in that record was albums by 999, the Buzzcocks, Sex Pistols, Who Killed Bambi, the Rock and Roll Swindle, and Nevermind the Bullocks. And then, you know, so I was like, what the fuck? You know, I was so into that. And then I saw what in the stack was the Dawn of the Dickies. Oh, yeah. Great record. And it was the only one that was fast. Uh-huh. You know, and it was like, you know, what is that? And, of course, I just, you know, and it was silly. Infectious and catchy. Yeah, and that kind of was everything. Even the Buzzcocks had orgasmatic, and everything kind of had those tongue-in-cheek a little bit, and things were funny. But yeah, when that kind of happened, I think it was the summer before my senior year or junior year, and it was on suddenly. And then I forget how Tony, how we all kind of... like got into that together because we were friends and then how we started listening to that because I was kind of hanging out more I was living I was living like right on like off of Hemlock on Ketch you know right and surfing a lot and going to Silver Shed and Oxnard Shores and hanging out with different people there so it was so it was kind of an interesting interesting time but but yeah so that's that's kind of how it happened when Tom gave me those records and it was on then we discovered you know uh those records were already out there like i think what year did jealous again come out 81 oh really 80 when did jealous again come out oh because nervous breakdown and how about fresh fruit for rotting veg
SPEAKER_02:yeah i don't know i'm
SPEAKER_01:terrible yeah so but anyway in that span way to
SPEAKER_02:call us out make us look terrible i know i
SPEAKER_01:thought you i wasn't
SPEAKER_02:there
SPEAKER_01:jesus that's east mile sitting i was i was i was
SPEAKER_02:one
SPEAKER_01:in 81 oh yeah okay So, so it was, it was weird. I mean, it's such a, it's hard to imagine. I mean, probably for young folks to imagine how remote things were and how you just had to go to record stores and they were only in LA. Yeah. So Oxnard, you know, it was still, it was still pretty far off the, off the punk rock map, you know?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But yeah, so we somehow, I remember Jim and this, this other guy lived next door. Jeff Thomas had like, even like a, what was that band that was um shit that uh and these weren't punk bands yet like that that band and they they uh ended up you know we just listened then someone got a dead kennedy's fresh fruit for rotting vegetables and and that wasn't their first record right dead kennedy's
SPEAKER_02:i don't know but
SPEAKER_01:i Yeah, because I think suddenly it was like, boom, and then the album Jealous again, and with Decline, and all that was coming out, and it was suddenly like, oh, shit. And everything just changed.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And so why do you decide to do a band?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, see, the senior year in high school is when I became a punk rocker at school. Sure. And we... There was no thought of a band yet. It was like going into the school as the only punk. It was me, Ronnie Baird from Stalag 13. Because you're at what high school? Wainimi. And I'm trying to think. There was a couple other guys. Israel was there. But we just suddenly shaved our heads. And it was like we were from Mars. And people were like, what the fuck is going on here, you guys? Yeah. And so we kind of, but it could have been, it had the possibility to be very dangerous, but there was one reason why it wasn't dangerous, and that reason was called Eric Edisvold, who was a dear friend of ours who moved away, but he was big. and he shaved it he had a shaved head he was just big and he sold speed to all the mexican guys in the bathrooms
SPEAKER_02:yeah he's a big punk guy that
SPEAKER_01:protected you oh yeah yeah and everybody would you know they would just go hey where's your buddy hey you know yeah and so it was it was it was simple as that it was like people did not want to tangle with him and i don't think eric fought a lot because he didn't have to right but he was just big um he was just you know this big big dude but he's a good friend of ours he's you know i still chat with him online but it was just uh That was a thing that kind of gave me the go-ahead to kind of express myself. Because I was in no shape. My self-esteem and confidence were not... My dad did a number on me kind of thing, so I kind of was digging out. Digging out from under some shit.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, before this, surfing
SPEAKER_01:was your passion? Yeah, skateboarding and surfing were, yeah, passion. We were surfing a lot. That was kind of all we would do in high school.
SPEAKER_02:What's the biggest wave you ever surfed?
SPEAKER_01:I don't know, 25 foot maybe? Where at? Some big ones in Indonesia. Yeah. But probably the biggest ones, probably at Silver Strand. Yeah. Like, it's hard to tell. I would say, no, maybe in Indonesia, but... And, you know, the only reason I took that big wave is because there was a big one behind
SPEAKER_03:me. I just wanted
SPEAKER_01:to get in. Yeah. Yeah, good stories like that. But, you know, that was the proving ground, you know. And so, you know, that was an interesting thing, being part of the surf community and the punk rock world. Because, you know, I think in Orange County it was happening. Kind of everything happened at the same time, you know. Sure. And it was really interesting because... It seemed like in the punk rock world, a lot of people really dressed the part. Like Israel, eventually when he finally cut his hair, people got really into the thing. But in the surf world, everything was toned down a little bit. Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:that image has not evolved too much. Since forever, right? Yeah. Jeans and flannels and flip-flops.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Flip-flops were a violation back then. Were they? Yeah. Flip-flops were a violation. A
SPEAKER_02:punk violation or a surf
SPEAKER_01:violation? A punk violation. Yeah. I mean, there was... Just like Oxnard, surfing in Oxnard was, I think, a little different than surfing. Like, Ugg boots were like an indication. Is that me beeping? I don't know. It's not me. Ugg boots and flip flops, you know, I don't know. I don't think people really wore that. But it was all, you know, it was a different scene. But I really felt like it was two independent lives for a while. Yeah. You know, like in this scene. And then we'd go to L.A., the punk scene.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so you're already friends with Jim and Tony, and then you decide to start a band.
SPEAKER_01:So I moved to San Diego.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Killer decision. Best city in America.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, a friend of mine, Jeff Thomas, one of the guys who we got into punk rock together, lived right next door to Jim Callahan. And he lived there before. And he goes, oh, you've got to come the 4th of July down there. It's super fun on Coronado Island. So I said, okay, let's go. And we both surfed together. So he goes, there's good waves down there. So we went there, and I stayed for a year. Went for a weekend and stayed for a year.
SPEAKER_02:This is another segment in the Nardcore Backyard Series.
SPEAKER_01:And it's Saturday, so people are doing their chores. Doing their
SPEAKER_02:chores. We do what we can here.
SPEAKER_01:But yeah, that was an interesting year. I was a punk rocker. We would go to the shows in San Diego, which was fucking crazy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and so this is 82 in San Diego?
SPEAKER_01:81? Yeah, I went there July 81. Right before you do your repute. Because
SPEAKER_02:you do your demo in 82.
SPEAKER_01:So in 81. We were down there and we'd go to this place called Fairmont Hall and a North Park Lions Club and the Wabash and People were crazy. Yeah, and who's playing? Battalion of Saints were called the Neutrons. Okay. And then they became the Battalion of Saints while I was there. But I think Black Flag's first show with Henry was down there, which was cool. And I was a huge Black Flag fan, but I was a big Dez fan. Yeah. And I remembered not knowing, but I knew SOA, so I knew who Rollins was. And I think by that time... I don't know, Minor Threat was out already, right? Yeah, in
SPEAKER_02:81, I think. Yeah. Dude,
SPEAKER_01:we're going to make me
SPEAKER_02:look terrible on this one. But anyway. Because, yeah, if you saw, if Henry was in Black Flag in 81, then Jealous Again had to be 78 or 79.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, yeah, so we kind of like, and that was the thing, just being hip to the East Coast stuff, because I was really into Minor Threat and really into some of those bands. Did you get to see
SPEAKER_02:Minor Threat?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. There? Yeah. What's that? Did you see him in San Diego? No, L.A. We played with him at a place in San Pedro. Oh, really? Yeah, it was like us. I forget who else, but I think it was Black Flag and Minor Threat. Holy shit, and they all repeat it. Yeah, and it was unbelievable. There was a couple other bands, but it was at this weird hall in San Pedro. I just remember Tony breaking strings and... Yeah, it was kind of a... It's all a blur, but... How many people do you think were there? 250, maybe. Jesus. Is that just because that was capacity, or that's how many showed up? I think that's just how many people showed up. It was real... It was a big building, you know? Yeah. And so it still felt empty.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But, yeah. That's so wild. Yeah, and it's so funny because it was like... It was early on, and I remember just being super nervous to be on that bill. Well, yeah. Don't you think you'd be nervous playing on that bill today? Way more now, yeah. But back then, Minor Threat, they didn't have the momentum that they do now when you think about how iconic they are. They were just this cool band that... Because I never did drugs or drank. I was straight before Minor Threat. Sure. So I was a weirdo. Yeah. But I just had a role model that started me off quick, like what not to do. Yeah. So I was just afraid of becoming that. So I sort of always pushed that away. And then suddenly Minor Threat comes out and it's, oh, that's what John's into. Suddenly I was like, cool. Yeah. Because... Because it was like, oh, wow, that's right. And I'm just like, yeah, cool. But I mean, obviously, not just the subject matter, but the band. There was nothing like that, really. It's as tight.
SPEAKER_02:Do you remember anything else from your time in San Diego? Because that's really early to be there, and we haven't gotten that take yet.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I just remember meeting some really cool people. They were super cool. Just like anything, you go in some place and there's scary looking people, but they're nice. Sure. They're nice people. And like Mark Rude, there was a guy named Mark Rude that was throwing the shows. And the same guy threw shows for years and years. Tim something down there. And he had the Pink Panther Bar. But anyway, there was just like crazy shows. Like Fairmont Hall was the main venue. But all the bands would come through. I can't remember exactly who, but the local bands there is the main one. It was like the Neutrons. And I just remember it was like people swinging a hammer in the pit once. It was just like over the top where you're going, what is going on? Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:someone said on the podcast that when Minor Threat played there, it was like the most violent thing ever. And then Ian never came back until like mid-era Fugazi. I didn't even come back with Fugazi in the beginning. He was so turned off by San Diego.
SPEAKER_01:It was crazy. And I had been going to LA. And we were scared. I mean, I should say I was scared. I was scared. I'd go to the Starwood. It was so violent. And I was a little dude. And it was... The pit didn't go in circles. I would be so into the music. I remember the Circle Jerks were playing some song, and I know that when I just went out into the pit, lose control, I would always come back hurting. Rib shots, and there's big guys, and it's just... But anyway, San Diego was like... There were some real mental cases down there. Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:it's a weird place because I think it's a convergence of... Beach culture, the military, and then you have some pretty redneck-y stuff out on the east, the east end of San Diego, too. Sand tea? Yeah, clam tea.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, we had it.
SPEAKER_02:The clan is still there.
SPEAKER_01:Ill Repute played a show later there. We ended up coming back. One of our best shows I remember was at Fairmont Hall, and it was so fun to come back there and see all my friends. Oh, I'm in a band now, like a year later or something. But then somewhere a couple years later, we played a show in Sand Tea. and I ended up running from guys with a big Bowie knife, like a big knife, and I ran through this near waist-deep water to get away. Take a guess on
SPEAKER_02:the year. So a couple years after 82? So 84-ish?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, you know what? When I'm thinking about it, it could have been when I lived there, too.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:But I'm not sure. It's somewhere close, and it might have been... Maybe we weren't playing. Maybe we'd just gone to a show. Okay. But I remember these guys were... Yeah. You were literally running for
SPEAKER_02:your life.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, I don't know if they would have not, I don't know if they would have stabbed me, but it was like, they have a knife, and they're rednecks, and they're drunk. Why did they come after you? Just because I look like a punk rocker. Oh, okay. Because, you know, yeah, I would bleach my hair white, you know, shave it and bleach it white, or different lines, or camouflage it, whatever, you know, just whoever had hair color, like that was doing something, you just maybe do this, whatever. But yeah, it was just enough to, you know, they felt threatened, or they're just bored, but they're clanty. Crazy. So
SPEAKER_02:crazy. So the European 82 demos are actually, like, really good for, like, doing demos, don't you think? Do you listen to it and you're not embarrassed?
SPEAKER_01:No, I can't say I'm embarrassed, but...
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, because, well, a lot of... The reason why I say that is a lot of people, like, their early, early stuff is just not well thought out. It's not the best stuff, right? I mean... But those are... fucking good and there's a lot of songs and they're all good and it's just it's interesting it's like a it's a different repeat take because they're not you're not fast yet no you're not not the not the blazing fast you're still like that mid-tempo punk fast kind of
SPEAKER_01:yeah and and it's funny how i know i heard tony talk about how we we didn't have tuners though we had the tune you know so everything was low i noticed that we were we weren't at 440 we were like you know who right but um I think that, and I listen to those songs, and the things that, I mean, Tony and Jim were playing the instruments and they were writing the songs. They wrote all the songs. And then when we would play them live, we kind of work out the melodies and stuff. But I just think some of the lyrics, it's hard, not like we're poets or anything. So if I listen back at some of those, it's just like elementary kind of lyrics. And you know, And it's funny. Some of it's funny, but we were 18, 19.
SPEAKER_02:You're also more of the fun band of the big four, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:I would say. Not that it's silly in any way, but it
SPEAKER_01:is more of fun. Party animal. Yeah, well, and like Party Animal was, like, when we were in Mystic, they said, hey, we're putting out a record called Party Animal. Will you want to write a title track?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And I wrote that song. Like, we were sitting right there, and I had since picked up the guitar, and I had that riff, and then we just all wrote it right there, like a Stones do or something in the studio. And that's what, that was just, that was like a full Mystic, just an afternoon in Mystic. Yeah. But yeah, we... I think that the whole Oxnard scene, and once we met the guys, like Dr. No, I mean, it was fun. It was funny. Did you
SPEAKER_02:put out your demo, and then you start playing shows, and that's when you start meeting them?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I'm trying to think when we actually were in that segment when we met people. I think because we were already a band. I know that. So
SPEAKER_02:you could have met them before you recorded.
SPEAKER_01:But we didn't know any. We didn't. When we started the band, we didn't know that there was any other punk rock bands in Oxnard. And then somehow we went to... I just remember... I'm not sure where we met. I think we heard that someone was playing it in Camarillo or something. I'm not sure where you guys were playing. And we all went. And I said you guys. I was looking at you smiling. Yeah. For those people out there. For the
SPEAKER_02:people not watching this on video.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
UNKNOWN:So...
SPEAKER_01:But it was one of those things like, wow. I remember going...
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so you went to see Dr. No and Camarillo.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, or wherever it was. And I just remember going, wow. And that's where the aggression guys. But the funny thing is I knew Mandy before that. And Mandy and Zorba used to hang from the beach. I used to go surfing and whatnot. And Mandy... We never like... boyfriend and girlfriend or even made out or anything but there was an attraction there like we we were really good friends and then yeah then later on and she then she was with henry so it was like yeah and after her and henry broke up and when she was sitting close to me and henry's like comes in the room like turns the lights on and off you know i was just like yeah but he was smiling it was all good but
SPEAKER_02:mandy's still beautiful and she's oh i love mandy
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_02:mid 50s
SPEAKER_01:right
SPEAKER_02:so
SPEAKER_01:oh yeah prime mandy jesus christ but but that's and i just remember that that those that time and knowing that brandon was their brother and and being into that tv show he was yeah and never meeting him for the longest time you know because he was kind of he was engaged he was still working i guess or doing in in He was in Camarillo, living with the grandparents for a while, which I learned on the podcast. And that made sense why I didn't know where he was. So yeah, so then when we discovered there was other bands, it was like, it was awesome. Because we had our own little clique and a couple people. But I have to say, the fun aspect is they were so funny. I mean, we just, like, East Mile and Rick Heller and Kyle and You know, it was just so fun. And so it was unlike, there was not a fucking macho, not a macho bone in the crowd. Yeah. And so it was really fun. And then the Goleta Valley Community Center would happen. And that was like, that like was super fun. It was like none of that LA scariness. Right. Like where. And after a while, we got to know. Like, the first show, we met John Macias from Circle One. Yeah. And he was out there with chains wrapped around him. He was one of the top dogs of that L.A. And it was the first L.A. punk show we went to see was the Dickies with the Suburban Lawns. And he was there, and it was kind of like this crossover crowd a little bit. But he was, like, out there, and then we just were wearing the right uniforms. So we've become friends ever since, you know. So we kind of got a good initiation into the L.A. world. But by the time the Starwood, you know, we went to the Starwood, it was just like... Things were crazy. How much later is that? It's hard to tell, but I had to be within the same year. Okay. And, you know, like, fear would be playing. And I remember, like, before fear, we just imagined, like, we saw fear on decline. And going, imagine if fear came to the start. We'd next thing see a flyer. Oh, shit. You know, so we had to go. And then I remember seeing, like, Tony. Tony, um. What's Tony Adolescent? I know he went by Tony Kadena just because he wanted to have the same name as Dez when he put the record. So I remember seeing him. He was super skinny, young, and he was just like the bouncers were always throwing him out, and he was kicking and fighting, and he was so wild. Yeah. And Rodney Bingham. The Starwood was out of control. Yeah. And John Holmes came down the stairs one time from the offices, and he was shocked. Everybody knew who he was. The porn
SPEAKER_02:star?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And just people would throw, like the punkers would throw bottles at Rodney Bing and Hyper. He was DJing up there, and they would give him such a hard time. The
SPEAKER_02:Rodney on the Rock dude?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So the way the Starwood had this main dance area kind of thing, or not dance area, but a main club area where he was kind of up on a DJ thing, and people would hang, and it was a bar. But then you went into this big room. where the punk rock went down, and it was, like, all wood, and, you know, there's, like, this weird little doorways, and... Yeah. And, uh... So... So it was, uh... Yeah, it was such a scene, so you kind of came in there, and you just... You didn't know where it was going to be safe, you know? Yeah. And if anybody had long hair, they would just get the shit beat out of them. Yeah. And you'd see them, like, you'd see, oh, my God. And, you know, I wasn't, like... I didn't have that mentality, but you would see someone, and you'd just go, oh, my God, that poor guy is just going to get destroyed. Yeah. But, um... But yeah, so we were, you know, this was before the band, and we were going to the shows, and we were, you know, so by the time we got to be in a band, I was, I did, okay, cutting back, I was in San Diego, and then those guys would come, they came down to visit. Okay. And we weren't a band, but we were just friends, they came down, went to some shows there, and... And then we talked about the band. And I remember someone saying, yeah, Jimmy came up with a band, a name, Ill Repute. Fucking brilliant name. And I was the bass player. Yeah. And so I remember I came back. A lot of shit happened. And I ended up just coming back on it. And then they were already playing. Kind of like they had gotten together once or twice. And then. Then I joined, and I couldn't play bass that well, and then we switched. Jimmy and I switched. Jimmy was the singer, and then it was kind of set.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Now you record for the demo, and do you put out... Is there a physical copy? Do you make copies and put them out to your friends or anything? No. You're just sitting on that recording. Yeah. And so what do you think... What's the first recording that people hear of Ill Repute?
SPEAKER_01:Was...
SPEAKER_02:The Rodney?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Because what happened... We made that demo, and then... And we gave it to Meg, who was a good friend of Brandon's first wife. Brandon Cruz married her. She's still a good friend of mine. She's an awesome lady. Oh, yeah, it's Jaime's wife. Ex-wife? Wife. They're still married. Okay, they're still married. So, yeah, Jaime Hernandez's wife now. She passed it off to Rodney. Yeah, she passed it off to Rodney, and then... And we had all these fucking hard punk songs, and he liked that. That was kind of a fun one. And the reason that song existed, we would kind of make up words when we went along, because we were just... Because when we cut our hair, and we were just into trouble. We were just... you know, vandals and spray painting and just doing shitty stuff, you know, just acting out, throwing rocks at cars, just whatever, just stupid shit. And then someone said, oh, look, and because we have short hair, oh, look, they're such clean-cut American kids. Some, like, woman or something said that to us, and we thought that was funny, so that was the birth of that song. But anyway, so that one, but it was just two chords. It was like a kind of a fuck-around thing, and it wasn't, like, it wasn't really not cool at the time, but we just... We thought it was funny, so we just kind of put it on this demo. And of course, he picks that one. I just remember my heart sinking going, oh, man, why not one of our punk rock ones? Well, it's
SPEAKER_02:a killer song, but it's not really a representation of what the band sounds like.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and it never was. I mean, when you listen to the demo, I don't think it doesn't really, I don't know, maybe it fits in a little bit.
SPEAKER_02:No, it still stands out as the catchy track, but it fits in on the demo more than it would on Land of No Toilets.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Because talk about a right turn.
SPEAKER_01:Well, what happened was we got called into a studio, like a real studio, with Robbie Fields producing from Posh Boy. And it was so funny. We go into the studio, and I'm... And we didn't know what to expect. We'd been in Goldmine. That was it. And it was all night long. They let you record for$100. And we did 30 songs. Right. And the guy was laughing at us. And mixing it, by the way. Yeah. So we go in there. And suddenly, this guy's yelling at us and telling, do this, do this, do this. OK, double the vocals. Do this. And then Tony was playing the lead. He's like, no, do it this way, this way. No, not like this. And some other guy, Jay Lansford from, was he Channel 3 or something? Crog. Huh?
UNKNOWN:Crog.
SPEAKER_01:the crowd who was associated with the label just kind of came and played this little part. You know, like that part. Because Tony just has that style. I remember we got one review that said, the guitar player sounds like he's playing with a brick. And we were like, yeah! Anyone else would probably think that was like a cut. And we were like, yeah, that was awesome. But yeah, so... So when we did those demos and you hear that, so we put that one out and then suddenly that was like, and it was, when you hear it, it's like has like, it's bright and it has all these like multi layers and stuff. So that was on the radio.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And we were, it was on the radio and we were like not even, we weren't even in the garage. We still sounded like that demo. Right. You know, so suddenly it was like, and I think that was maybe a little kick in the pants a little bit like for, for, um, Maybe to be a little more diligent in the writing or something. Because it kind of opened the doors a little bit of what happens when you record. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I think it's wild that you sniff a little bit of success on a really catchy song and then you just... go as hard as possible on the next record. It's pretty wild. Because Land of No Toilets is not a sonically pleasing record. That's the ugliest guitar tone outside of some sort of grind band.
SPEAKER_01:It sounds like a broken air compressor. You can't really hear where the changes are. Yeah. Did you know this? You probably knew this, but when we went back to mix that, we go back to mix it.
SPEAKER_02:Here, let me guess. So you'll know. I do know some history. Is this the Folgers can? Yeah. Awesome.
SPEAKER_01:This is a great story. The bass drum track was gone.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so tell the whole story. So you record the whole record. You're
SPEAKER_01:done. Yeah, Land of Notorious. And what happened was we had a guy who was going to pay for us to go in the studio. And I know Tony talked about this, but it was like our friend Mike Terry from high school wasn't into punk, but just had an inheritance. And said, I think, let's record you guys. So we saw somewhere, there was an ad or something. I don't think Mystic wasn't really even doing punk rock too much. They were doing some of the flower leopards and stuff like that. So it was an ad, like, record here. So we went to the big city to record. And while we were recording, they liked it. To the point where Doug Moody said, hey, do you want us to put it out? We'll put it out. And we were like, put it out? Yeah, we'll make records. What? You will press it? Yeah. Because we were just doing it to do it. Yeah. We never knew how to make records. Sure. So suddenly we're like, yeah. Yeah, for sure. We were literally out of the garage. I don't know if we didn't have a first. We maybe had one gig or something. A couple gigs. So yeah, that's how that happened. We went in there and then we go back to mix like a week later and The bass drum track is gone. There's nothing. It's totally quiet. The mic wasn't plugged in and he didn't notice it. So he got out a mic and Carl played on a Folgers coffee can with a spoon. And did everything. The whole record.
SPEAKER_02:That's so fucked up. And I feel your pain because that happened on one of the In Control records. We lost a snare track. And so Tony had to go back and... do his single hits which
SPEAKER_01:is very hard and terrible it probably helps gave Carl like a stronger foot or something you know because it was like a good thud thud thud really good thud but um so then yeah so then that came out and we had then we had a record a record yeah and um and by then we were not that I don't think it's not like I don't know if we, I don't know if anyone, I wouldn't say anyone liked us. You know, we had friends and everybody, everybody supported every band, but I wouldn't say that we had anything that anybody like really liked, you know, like at that point, um, I didn't feel like, but like we had just a few gigs and, and, but we had just, it was just what you did. All our friends were in bands, everybody was in bands and, you know, I was, I was, I don't know if you know, I was the first, the original bass player of Stalag 13. Okay. Did you know that? But anyway, so we all, you know, it was what you did. You have a big group of friends and you're having fun. And you have garages and people, you sit there and you play. We would practice every night and go through everything on the list and people would hang out, like girlfriends would come and, you know, and it was just like, there was nothing else to do. Yeah. You know, because, you know, disco was on the radio and... Still. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:In 83?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, it was, you know, it was just not Michael Jackson and whatever. It just wasn't, there wasn't anything that... that we wanted to do and that the parties had like all the jocks and stuff so it was like we had a jam kind of made our own thing
SPEAKER_02:yeah and you go to write what happens next right away there's no there's no stopping
SPEAKER_01:yeah some yeah no no there was there was no stopping and then we we when we had the record we started having something and people liked it you know so that was like where it started because When they could hear something, and then they... They started, like, after the opening. And it had Oxnard, and so, like, the local scene was kind of... It was like... But then when we went back in the Mystic to do what happens next, you know, things... You know, we were... You know, everybody's getting more comfortable with their instruments. Sure. You know, and tuners became the... I think were invented. Okay. And you get a little better equipment, you know.
UNKNOWN:Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:But the one thing is I remember in the studio, I completely changed my singing pattern. Instead of following a thing, I just decided somehow, let's try this. And I just did something on What Happens Next, I think, the song. Instead of following that, I just decided to just go for it. And then it was like, whoa, do that on everything. And so I think that was one of the things that changed that. So like... And it just kind of added like a new frantic kind of...
SPEAKER_02:Yes, it's more interesting vocals. So it's a bigger dynamic because you're not following the guitar anymore.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think that was just the progression there where that just happened in that studio. And then that record, and the whole scene was growing too. So it was just timing.
SPEAKER_02:Do you remember how long it took to record
SPEAKER_01:it? I would say two days. Yeah. Because we would stay... We'd sleep at Mystic. Right. And there was rooms and stuff, and I think... I think we would stay there. You know, Doug had his own room there, and... So, yeah, we... I think I would have to say two days, and then maybe we'd go back to do overdubs.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, go back and do some stuff and mix later.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That's crazy. I mean, two days is pretty insane.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because it's one of those things in... It would usually just... The only time I remember, I think it was Cherokee or something like that, that Carl would fall to pieces. It was too long. Because we'd laugh at our... When looking back at our songs, there's so many breaks and stops because we needed to know where one was. If it required a groove, and Cherokee Nation had those things where it would go too long, and so things would fall off the rails a little bit. So in the studio, it was like... you know, then it would be, as long as you got to that place where you could, you know, hit the cymbal, and, you know, okay, we know where we are, kind of thing. But it was, it was, I just remember doing that, and sometimes giggling, laughing, like Tony, you know, backing vocals, I would laugh, and, you know, that would be the longest thing I've ever seen a stick in this engineer, if you go, come on, you guys. But then I remember when we did, oh, wait, when we recorded Oxnard, did you come to the studio? Rick was there. Rick Heller. You know, at the end when they were going, there's no girls in Oxnard. That was Rick Heller.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, you should tell us what the verse lyrics are on Oxnard. No one knows.
SPEAKER_01:There's no lyrics. What do you say? I just make sounds.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:There's a couple. I would talk about Sal's Mexican in sometimes. Change it. Yeah, whatever. But you
SPEAKER_02:don't know what you said on the record. Or you don't know if you said anything. No, I didn't say anything. Because the third line is unintelligible.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I know that one of those lines I talk about... It's like, I
SPEAKER_02:don't care what people say, as long as there's a place to be.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, then...
SPEAKER_02:Da-da-da-da-da-da, da-da-da-da-wa-nee-mee.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, well, there's one time I said, like, close out barrels at Wa-nee-mee Beach or something. That's one line that kind of came in there, but yeah, it was like... Gibberish. Yeah, just gibberish. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Because, I mean, it was too fast, and it was nothing, you know, and we... I don't have to seem like the right thing to do. Okay. And everybody would wonder what the hell I was saying, and they'd pretend to sing along, which I really liked. Yeah. Okay, you want to take it?
SPEAKER_02:Do you guys have any input into the artwork, or is that you just let Jaime get down?
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's another thing. The cool thing about meeting, and I know I mentioned this before, is Oxnard was pretty segregated. I mean, the surfers were at the beach, and for the most part, you know, people... But next thing you know, the music, I was... You know, you meet these guys, and you end up coming to Jaime's house by Durley Park, you know, and smelling Mexican food, and eating good Mexican food, you know, whatever, just like... And then the Filipinos had all the weird food, like the fish heads and stuff. And the palut. Yeah, the pancet and blood pudding. So anyway, it was really culturally fun. But it was like, you would never have met the Hernandez brothers. If it wasn't for music, you would never have had these friendships. So it was really fun. But we would go to their house. Because I was never in the comic book they made. But I... and I knew I didn't collect them or even read them I would look at them because he would put me in there put little things and Jaime would point out things it was always fun to see because they were so good so we would just go there and we have a record do you have something? yeah come in and we just look through oh
SPEAKER_02:you just look through stuff and choose
SPEAKER_01:yeah so when we were looking for what happens next um we found that, that dude, that picture of that skinhead with his head, just with a fist. Yeah. And, um, he was just some, you know, some scary, ugly looking dude. Yeah. I didn't know that 30 years later I would look just like him, but, um, anyway, um, but yeah, so, so we just, we, and you know, just, yeah, take it, you know, like it was, you know, it's, it's so, it was so awesome, but we just like would look at these things. Yeah. Let's go this. And what should we call it? I don't know why we chose what happened next. Yeah. And then just put the nardcore on his knuckles. Yeah. And then I think also that oxnard symbol in the back that was all those triangles, I think that was someone who's... I think that Gilbert actually drew that man. You're talking about me? Okay. And so, you know, there was a... We just would get... They would just let us take it. Yeah. You know, and... It was so awesome. I mean, looking back, as big of a talent that those guys are, it's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_02:Were you not worried about... It looks like such a tough album cover for a band that is... It's not like you guys are... You're not trying to project that.
SPEAKER_01:No, but it was... The artwork dictated. If he had a cool shot of a poodle, we might have went for it.
SPEAKER_02:Totally.
SPEAKER_01:But we definitely were into being a hard band. We knew we didn't want to be a racist or a tough, but we just wanted to be... like looked at as a hard band, you know, and we wanted to be,
SPEAKER_02:well, the music is fast and brutal.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That's what we, we, we kind of wanted to be brutal cause our favorite music was, but, um, and yeah, yeah. So what happens next was just, was, was, was like, it was just such a moment of time of itself, you know, cause the demos were so different and I could hear like, like songs like, well, Carl changed his drumming. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:It went to like faster, uh, And Gnarlier. But that started on the 7-inch.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And the demos, you could hear a song that sounds like Soulster Distortion. Sure. You could hear songs that...
SPEAKER_02:You're searching for your sound. That's why it's a demo.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Right? Yeah. So after the LP, you do your first tour. The Scared Straight Tour.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we had done... But
SPEAKER_02:first full US.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that was the one that was first full US. Yeah, and... And... I remember Doug Moody going, don't go for so long, you guys. You're going to burn out. That's too long. You've got to wait and break it off. Why do you have to do this? But touring was like... And I was torn because when I was touring, I wanted to be back at the beach. Sure. And when I was at the beach, I wanted to be touring.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I was never happy. Do
SPEAKER_02:you remember any stories from that tour that Tony didn't tell?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, it's kind of a blur, but... one of the funniest things that happened, like this is, this is, we were playing a show in Albuquerque and Albuquerque was always a weird town. Yeah. And cause you think about this, when we'd come into town, you'd have to go to a pay phone to call the, the, the find where the guy is. Sure. There's no, you know, you have a, maybe a map, but you, you know, so we were just so lost. So we finally, I remember going to this pay phone and there was a, a Native American guy drunk and sleeping in there. And so we finally, like we had to use the phone and he got up and started yelling at us and took off. But, um, So we're at the show, and it's in this upstairs place. A lot of times on that tour and at that time, people didn't know what to expect. The clubs didn't know what to expect. So a lot of times there would be problems. Like, yeah, these bands are going to play. Then next thing you know, people are slamming, and it's over. But I remember we're playing on this kind of nice club on the second floor, and they had mics for the backing vocals. Uh-huh. And it was a pretty good crowd, and people were going crazy. And all of a sudden, something broke down. I remember all of a sudden seeing both microphones falling and feeling tugging on this. And I just kind of hold onto the mic, and then it kind of pulls out of my hand, and I see there's this girl with a mohawk through the PA board off the balcony. And all the mics just went down with it. I was like, oh my god, this is great. All you hear is drums and the instruments. It was like, wow. So that turned into a big riot. Then there was a band called Jerry's Kids that were from there. And they became friends of ours. Not the Boston band? No, it was another Jerry's Kids. And so then we went and played in their living room and finished the set.
SPEAKER_02:Poor girl. Did she live?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, she was the one. She was the one that Vera was afraid of. I was worried that everyone else would live. She was out of hand. But the Scared Straight guys were like, they were strict Mormons. I don't know if anybody knew that. No, that's never been told. And the big thing was them like, oh, no, there's some girls. Oh, look, they were kind of like, they were interested, but they weren't allowed or something. Not Scott Radinsky so much, but Dennis and those guys. I barely remember this, but... so we'd be chatting girls up and stuff it's not like you know the tours were not there wasn't a lot of that but um but i remember the night when all our stuff got stolen i know jim tony told that story and i had met this girl and i stayed somewhere else and i came back in that morning it was like oh shit their stuff's gone you know and i had i had a backpack and my skateboard so i was like the only one who had like a couple of clothes and But I remember he had a couple hundred bucks that were tucked into the car seat, and Tony said he had it somewhere, but it was tucked in the car seat, and we finally found the car and some hood in it. Someone had broken the ignition. We think it was someone, one of the promoters. We thought it was an inside job in the punk scene. Why? I don't know. I just think that maybe someone just... Is this
SPEAKER_02:still
SPEAKER_01:your gear? Yeah, it's still gear. I don't know. It's hard to tell at this point, but it was... It was a great show. It was hotter. It was, like, summertime. And I just remember we... And check this out. We would go on tour in the back of an open truck. Like, we'd pull the trailer, and two of us would be back in the open truck, like, just baking in the fucking sun. And it was always me and Tony. Tony and I were the closest, I'd say. And I lived at Tony's house after a while, you know, and we did all the... band stuff made the stickers and the shirts we made the shirts ourselves and um answered back letters and you know and it was really a great time but um so we would just sit there and we'd go to it was so hot we would go to trucks or rest stops and just get a blanket and get it all wet and just lay under it and you know it's just so brutal and just find through some lake i remember we pull up to a lake we just had to get out 114 in kansas and just like out in the You know, and we'd just be laying back there just like, and trucks would go by looking at us like, what the fuck are you guys doing? And then at night, the night times, the night driving was fun, you know, in the desert, you know, across the Midwest. And we were just, I remember just loading up with rocks so we could throw it at signs. Oh, yeah. And we'd just be bored. So, yeah, the tours were pretty rough. And that's kind of what Doug Moody meant, I think. Like, you know what, you guys, you're not going to sustain out there, you know. Yeah. So... And sure enough, you know, something would always happen. Like those first tours, we like broke down in Arizona. And, you know, that one tour of Scared Straight, we broke down in Simi Valley. Wow. On the way out? On the way out. Carl's truck or something. You made it 45 minutes. Oh, no, it wasn't Carl because Scott Radinsky drove for us that tour. Okay. But Carl had a real job. But we ended up just having to rent a station wagon. That's what got stolen.
SPEAKER_02:So that's another piece of information that hasn't gotten dropped. Carl didn't go on that tour. Scott played drums.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and sang for Scared Straight. Yeah. Yeah. And it was kind of... Because Carl had a job with the city. Carl went to college, and he kind of did things kind of... Because that was another thing. Carl got pulled into the punk rock world, and he was into rock music, and he was a drummer.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And the minute he saw a couple punk girls and he was into it, he was like, okay, I'm in the band. But you've got to say, Carl, his ramp up to go from playing like, can't get enough of your love to hanging with some of the punk rock stuff took a while. I mean, it didn't take that long, but he kind of really jumped on it. You've kind of got to give it to him for that.
SPEAKER_02:so what goes on after what happens next you guys just tour and play gigs for a couple years and then do you start like feeling burnout do you kind of like fade out or break up or like what is the repute doing in like 86 and 87
SPEAKER_01:well i was you know it it it was so funny like the the punk scene kind of got it changed like it suddenly like Punk rockers didn't look like punk rockers. It wasn't like Black Flag grew their hair, and bands like Blast and stuff were coming, and people just looked like normal, like normal surfers or whatever. So a lot of that just dropped. But we would still play and go to San Diego and San Francisco, and we were still active, but I think some burnout happened, and then...
SPEAKER_02:Because why don't you do another record? Until the transition stuff.
SPEAKER_01:But that's
SPEAKER_02:a long time.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it is. It's four years. Yeah, I think what happened was... The scene got pretty weird. Jocks got hip to punk rock. And there was a lot of fights and gangs. And I remember playing Fenders and just going... It was like fight after fight. Yeah. And... And we'd be up there playing, and you'd look, and everyone's just looking elsewhere, which is always the case in punk rock. It's kind of the cool thing because it's not just about the band. It's about the whole vibe of the room. But there was a weird evil energy down at Fender's. Yeah. And so we just kind of started burning out on it. And I think it had something to do with the Goleta Valley Community Center was so fun. Yeah. And me, for one, I got just hooked on that fun aspect of it. Then why not just do that? Because it stopped. They stopped having shows there for some reason. But I don't know. It just seemed like things changed, and I think we just burnt. I don't remember why we stopped playing. And I think that some band members might have been playing around with some drugs and stuff. I'm not sure. But it just seemed like it kind of fell apart a little bit.
SPEAKER_02:So there was a couple years stop and transition, you start
SPEAKER_01:jamming again? Oh yeah, transition. There was like two years of nothing where we didn't play or anything. And then Punk Rock just started either going metal or... Or, I don't know, it was just a weird time. I can't really even remember what was going through our heads, but we were just, like, we just started playing, like, just listening to, like, a variety of stuff, you know? Like, just kind of the punk rock that was coming. Like, NoFX was, like, the only people still playing punk rock. RKL. RKL, yeah. RKL kind of, like, had a little metal twinge to them, too, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, just because they were rippers.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, they were super good. I mean...
SPEAKER_02:Did they... Were they not always in Santa Barbara? Did they move to San Francisco at some point? Someone said that.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I know Bomber did, but I mean, I don't know if the whole band did, but the early years, we would spend a lot of time in Santa Barbara. Santa Barbara was like... We had had all the fun going on there. We would go to Ted's and the Red Barn, and Arkell was just... Yeah, Arkell was just... And they were just such a force. They were so good, and they were... And they weren't from Oxnard, but we were reaching out for them all the time. They were so good. That's so close. And the guys were so cool. But Santa Barbara was its own thing. They were like the kings of that area. And even though it was so close, the whole Nardcore thing didn't rhyme, but they never would ever claim it. Not that anybody... Not that it's a weird word to say, but they were on their own tier, their own pedestal. We kind of all sort of were... And they had their own sound and everything. Completely. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, that's what's so crazy is that for when all the punk stuff is falling off, 87 is a weird year for punk stuff. Although for straight-edge hardcore and stuff, it's a huge year. But... that rock and roll nightmare in 87 what a wild record
SPEAKER_04:yeah
SPEAKER_02:you know it's mind-blowing for the the year yeah so
SPEAKER_01:yeah but but so as far as ill repute was concerned yeah i i went to this um i started getting into like exploring other music like i was really in the sound garden like the early sst you know like that kind of stuff and i just really liked uh And like Jane's Addiction came around, like the early Red Hot Chili Peppers. I remember seeing them when, I think Keith Morris sang for them the first time I saw them. Okay. But anyway, they were just, you know, it was kind of like there was funk in there, and there was this, and then, you know, Jane's Addiction had like these different, so there was a lot of different music that, and just kind of the punk rock that, you know, you've been listening to for the last five years is like, It's kind of like on the shelf, and it's kind of done the same. Like you just couldn't, you know, it wasn't sustaining at the time. And I went to the school of music, and I was exposed to a lot of different kinds of music. And then when the transition stuff, we went into Mystic and just started playing around and recording all this stuff. We recorded so many songs. I think we were just like, we're clinging to, wanted to be in some kind of band, but we weren't doing the work. Yeah. Well, it
SPEAKER_02:just sounds like you're demoing and dicking around.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly what we were. We did Michael Jackson songs. We would do anything. We were just fucking around. And we were kind of playing around with instruments. I'd never played guitar, so I kind of was picking it. And Mystic didn't want to put it out. And we kind of understood the thing.
SPEAKER_02:So why did it come out?
SPEAKER_01:I think eventually they just didn't have anything to lose and just put it out.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Is that you on the album cover?
SPEAKER_01:No.
SPEAKER_02:Kind of looks like you,
SPEAKER_01:though, right? Yeah. Does everyone think it's you? I thought it was me, but then something made me think that it wasn't me, like the shirt or something I noticed.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. It's a great album cover. That's the best thing about the record.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I mean, and it's misleading. And we didn't even... It's like... All the records, this would come out, and we would just go, oh, look, we have another record out.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So that's 89. Do you play any shows after that record comes out?
SPEAKER_01:No, not really. We were kind of disconnected.
SPEAKER_02:Because Big Rusty Ball is 93, so it's four years later.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so I got out of that music school. Yeah. And sort of had a... There was a lot of different music flying around at that point, like... I remember like Big Drill Car and all the... There was like post-pop punk kind of stuff. No effects and stuff like that. So I kind of... I don't know which one. Was it Big Chief or something with... Yeah, I forget exactly who I was into. But it was just like... It was like time to get melodic and kind of like... So I was out of that music school so I kind of knew my way around the guitar. So I said, hey, I remember calling the guys. Why don't we get together and just write another record? And... and see what we can do so we put out a demo and I remember Fat Mike was looking you know Fat Mike was a friend so we were like and he was into it and he was going yeah what about can you guys do like harmonizing backing vocals and he was kind of you know kind of do all that stuff because that wasn't really quite happening so this
SPEAKER_02:is a demo
SPEAKER_01:before Big Rusty Balls of some of those songs yeah and it was like a four song demo and Jerry Finn produced it who ended up you know ended up doing you know Pennywise do you have it? The demo? Yeah. No. Who would? I don't know. Someone's got to find it. Jesus. Maybe Tony. But it had just... It had... It had just like four songs or something. And
SPEAKER_02:all four songs made the record? I
SPEAKER_01:think so, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. But then... Okay, so you shot with the fat.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we shot with the fat. And I think he passed on it because... I forget what happened. But then... That's when Doctor Strange got it. And he says, yeah, I'll do it. So then... So, then we went into the studio and we wanted Jerry Finn to produce it, but he had a producer. So, Jerry kind of came with him just to kind of watch out for us, you know, kind of thing. He came in and we recorded that at some really nice studio. I forget. It was like a place where some names had played. It was kind of a proper thing. Did you take your time? Did you take a week or two? No, we didn't have that much time. I think we just had a couple days again. But we just went and slammed through it and then came back and did demos. I mean, overdubs and stuff.
SPEAKER_02:And then how do you feel about the songs? Is it just if Tony writes a song, he sings it? Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:that's kind of where it was. Yeah. And
SPEAKER_02:live, you guys are both playing guitar, so it's not weird.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. And I liked a lot of Tony's songs were fast and hard. And I really liked that. And I really liked coming up with my guitar lines that would kind of complement that. So it was really fun playing guitar. I really liked playing guitar, because it was just something new. And it was solos. Any of those guitar solos back then. It's a good record. I mean, I think it's all right. I liked it. It was a trip. It was just a weird time. But folks liked the songs. Do you tour on that record or anything? That was when I got kicked out of the band.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so let's tell the story. Tony didn't want to touch it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I mean, what happened was I was going to surf in France every summer for at least a month, and I would go there with my friend, you know, Keith Leatherwood and some guys here from Ventura. For vacation. Yeah, just go there. And I was working for the Oxnard Mental Health. I was working for the, and I was there for a decade or so. So I would always get a month and I would go there. And so I had my month and I bought the tickets and I was ready to go. And I was really excited to tour because I quit my job. I was really excited to tour for Big Rusty Balls because I was like, the songs I wrote, you know, I was like super stoked and we had like a plan. And, um, So I had, it's cool, okay, I'm quitting my job, going to France for these three weeks or a month, and I come back and we hit the road. And then somewhere I remember, and Jim was like the spokesman, Jim's a strong personality, and Tony's really non-confrontational, so he's kind of like that in the back, and they're saying, hey, we got this offer to play a show at this festival in Oregon, in Portland, and we want to do it, and it's during this time. And I said, I already bought airline tickets. You know, this was back in the time where you have paper tickets. Sure. And I go, I already got the tickets and everything. I can't, you know, I spent, you know, hundreds of dollars on these things. And he goes, well, if it's important, if the band's important to you, you'll make it happen. And I said, it has nothing to do with, I remember the conversation was outside of that. Remember that place you'd practice by Salzer's with the railroad tracks? And I would be, I remember just going, it has nothing to do with me, you know. with me caring about the band I go but this is it's already set I just can't make it you know and he says well you know well you're out of the band but
SPEAKER_02:it's only one show
SPEAKER_01:and they've done fill-ins before yeah so so I just so I left and I went to France and I I remember I just remember really distinctly being in France and I had my return ticket and I just didn't go back I stayed there because you know they had already been out and you know and so And I think I checked in with Tony or something or whatever. But, yeah, there was no... I was out. Yeah. So that's when they just took off and they kind of did their own thing. And I just stayed in France for whatever. How long do you think? A few months? Yeah, just a few months. And it was painful. I was bummed. I was really bummed. Because, I mean, that was a big... I was really into those songs. I was into that record. I was into touring. You know, I... I had guitar gear. So suddenly that part of my identity was gone. So I just went there. But somehow when I came back, I ended up back in, and we ended up doing some shows for that, but not the tour. The tour was gone. And it was hard for them to pull off. And you leave again, though, because you're not on Bleed. Oh, yeah. That was... What happened there? Yeah. So bleed. Yeah. Yeah. I don't remember what happened. I don't think I was, I was never even in Tony. I think he wanted to sing. Okay. So I don't think I was ever asked to be on bleed or I don't even know what happened there, but, um,
SPEAKER_02:but you didn't get kicked out again. You just didn't get a phone call to do the record.
SPEAKER_01:No, it was, it was a totally, it was a totally different thing. I wonder what, I don't know. Cause I
SPEAKER_02:got that next Shia dude that was playing the other guitar.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, and I don't remember what... Oh, you don't... No, maybe I never... No, maybe I never did anything until after all that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That's what it was. I just was gone, and then it just kind of all fell apart. I think eventually Nishaya, and then... And then they did the...
SPEAKER_02:And Carl left. Carl had been gone because this is with Libkey
SPEAKER_01:playing drums. Yeah, Joey Libkey, and then eventually Jimmy was gone, and Tony was the only original member, and then... God, I don't remember when. Maybe all the Big Rusty Balls stuff happened before. Because then we started playing in Ventura, like playing mogs. And we would play across. I remember because I would take the guitar on and off.
SPEAKER_02:I think that would have been the Big Rusty Balls time, either right before or after the record. So probably right before you went to France.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So anyway, we would play mogs, and they would be packed. And like the people would be lining around the show. I was going, wow. And I remember we would make like, make like a thousand bucks and we'd be so stoked. It was like, are you kidding? You know, you know, but, um, the guy that the guy was, you know, believed in paying the bands and stuff, but, but yeah, it gets a little foggy there where, um, what, when all that happened because you have life starting to grab you, you know? And yeah, it was, it was strange. I think Tony had kids like so young, you know, like it was like how he pulled all that off is like,
SPEAKER_02:yeah. And working
SPEAKER_01:nights.
SPEAKER_02:Do you ever listen to the Bleed record?
SPEAKER_01:I have, but I don't... I remember thinking, this is good, it shouldn't say ill repute on it. Because that's holding them back. After what we did with all the transition and even Big Rusty Balls, it just seems like it's sort of like you're leading people down a dead-end road. You're pigeoning yourself. I really think that whole thing Tony did, if it had another name, it probably would have taken off.
SPEAKER_02:I love that record.
SPEAKER_01:And
SPEAKER_02:then they did one more after with Joe Rivas and Forrest, The End Now. And then I don't know if they break up or they just decide to kind of go like, they just get you back and you got to start playing shows again, playing all the old songs. How did that come about?
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah, I was in this other band for a while, like a band that was a little bit more like Helmet and stuff like that called Normal Human Speed. And it was with these guys from Ventura, and we just played around a little bit. Did you record? Not for anything, but I have a couple songs somewhere on a cassette tape. We never went and did anything too serious, but we recorded this stuff out of the studio in Ventura that night. dave gertzman kind of worked on but it was so heavy it was so fun you know i really think that that could have been that had a lot of potential but the you know personnel issues but you're playing you're playing guitar yeah guitar and singing oh but it was real syncopated and i had like a my top string was like a 60 like a so i would just really like odd temperature you gotta
SPEAKER_02:find that and put it online
SPEAKER_01:and i would have to i would have to like I would have to practice so hard to be able to play it and sing it because the melody line was like this and then this was really syncopated. It was really fun. It's what I was really into. A lot of the bands like Quicksand and Soundgarden and stuff like that was taking punk rock and just kind of going somewhere with it that kind of wasn't metal. I wasn't drawn to the metal so much, the speed metal. But yeah, it was just a weird time how that all kind of... Fizzed out. Then we decided to come back and get... No, you know what it was? It was for Mark Hickey's benefit. That's when you get back. Yeah. Okay. And it was right here where we practiced at Jennifer Selby's back room. And... So we call Carl and we get together and we play in this little shack and we're going to play and we're going through the songs and we're just having so much fun and laughing. Like, why did we do that? Well, we had to finish this off, you know, because if it wasn't like, you know, like everything was so like... And so we were just really fun and we practiced and played and then... Before the benefit, we decided somebody was throwing shows in Ojai at the Women's Center. So this woman, Adriana or something. So we go, let's just play there so we don't go and venture a theater without having another show. We'll play this little show in Ojai. And we go there and we pull up and I just remember like, oh shit, it was packed. And I was so, I was, because I guess Mystic put stuff out.
SPEAKER_02:They've
SPEAKER_01:been putting
SPEAKER_02:stuff out the whole
SPEAKER_01:time. Digitally. Yeah. And I didn't know it. I thought that... I swear, I didn't think anybody... I didn't think it would be like a handful of our friends, you know, a few kids. And it was packed. And I was like, oh, my God. And they knew all the words. Yeah. And I was like, oh, shit, this is not... So that was... After that, it was like, oh, this is what we're going to do. And then Carl was married and very religious, you know, like really into his... What's it called? Like... Like you're a little, I forget what the church, like a church thing. I forget the term. And he was involved in, I think, playing music and this and that. And so he was like, I can practice on this day. And I think his wife was really strict with him a little bit, I think. Yeah. Sorry, Carl, if that's not right. But I remember it's something like that. So that's when I asked Tony, I said, what about that drummer you had? You know, that other drummer you had. So I remember going to this friend's warehouse and trying out Chuck. Yeah. And just kind of going, oh, shit. He's just a freaking animal. Yeah. So that's kind of how that... So we started playing again. And there was a need for it. And there was no big rusty ball stuff. I didn't have a guitar. We went straight... Everything was... 83 or younger or 84 84 yeah
SPEAKER_02:yeah and that's funny because your band is like all original members except for Chuck the drummer but he's been in your band for like 20 years now
SPEAKER_01:he's been in the band longer than Carl but then yeah then yeah but it's been it's been cool and Carl would come up and play once in a while like one time one time Chuck Chuck got in a little trouble or something and and uh couldn't make a show. And I called Carl. I go, Carl, did you practice those couple songs? Yeah, I'm ready. I go, good, because you got to play the whole set. He's like, what? So that was Kathy Rogers' benefit show. So anyway, Carl played that. So it was fun, you know. But yeah, then Carl got a divorce. And I think he really would have liked to have been in the band by that point, you know. Carl, I mean, Chuck was solid. And you know, it was set, you know.
SPEAKER_02:He wasn't in NorCal at that point?
SPEAKER_01:No. He was still around here. He didn't move to NorCal until semi-recently. And he would always come to the shows. It was always good to see him. Chuck was such an animal. And the songs kind of played themselves. And I'm sure Carl now has been practicing a lot. But older drummers, it's hard. Yeah. Like, they don't hit as hard, and the ill repute set on the drums is a little bit abrasive, you know? It's pretty wild. You know? And so Chuck just kind of, you know, he just sort of like... He's great. He grooves in and just goes... I think he plays for every Nardcore band now, doesn't he?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. Unsung hero, Chuck. We'll have to get him sometime. He'll have a good perspective on everything.
SPEAKER_01:He doesn't talk a lot.
SPEAKER_02:That's okay. I'll get it out of
SPEAKER_01:him. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That'll be a whiskey podcast.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'd love to hear what he'd have to say. Chuck's a great guy and a really good drummer. A lot of times over the last few years, I would really want to write something new and come out with something, but I've never been able to get it together. I've got a lot of songs. I remember having some songs and I remember playing some with Tony and he's like, Because we put a couple on that Nardcore.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, the 30 Years Later comp or whatever.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I had a couple songs, and they were a little involved. And Tony's like, I don't know if that's an Overpute song. I was going, yeah, I know. It's a little bit of removal. But yeah, so we just kind of decided we're this novelty. Now we're just playing these songs from back when we don't play often. But when we do, it's really fun. It's not a bad place to end, right? No. I mean, you look back at it all, and it's just nice to play anything where someone cares. Because
SPEAKER_02:you guys still do really well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we do okay. And it
SPEAKER_02:sounds great.
SPEAKER_01:It's a good act. People come, and it's always off the hook. It's always fun, and we don't overplay and end up. we kind of just wait for the kind of decent shows like playing like direct support for seven seconds in orange county or something was like nothing wrong with that oh my god yeah and then like the show coming up at the ventura theater with the youth brigade and so well it's like gonna be it's gonna be awesome sure so um yeah so it's sort of come down to that you know play a few times a year and a lot of people hit us up promoters hit us up to play here and there and um most of the time they want us to travel and people are talking about japan and stuff but I don't think we'll, I don't know if we have any traveling in us like that. I
SPEAKER_02:think go do a week in Japan. That'd be sick.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That would be fun. That would be fun. We toured, you know, we toured Hawaii and Tony didn't come and I played, I played guitar and sang. Were you a three piece? Yeah. Holy cow. It was super fun, but it was like, it was awakening that how hard, how much Tony plays. It was totally different. It was a,
SPEAKER_02:how do you tour Hawaii? Like what's the circuit?
SPEAKER_01:One show on the North Shore, one show in Honolulu, one show in Maui, one show on the big island of Hawaii. And do you ferry between the islands? Fly.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and then they set up the gear. They set up the back line. You just don't bring
SPEAKER_02:guitars.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so there's a back line waiting for us. And a friend of mine is a promoter out there, so he set it all up.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but it was...
SPEAKER_02:We need that promoter to become a fan of Retaliate.
SPEAKER_01:Well, yeah. I should have to give you his number. He could go. But, you know, it's a super hard one. You end up just going. You don't make... You don't come home with any money.
SPEAKER_02:We don't need to. Yeah. You just get to go to Hawaii. Yeah, we only do fun stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01:How many members are in your band? Five. Yeah, see, that's hard. Yeah. Add another guy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But, you know, it's... But
SPEAKER_02:we've done Mexico, and we've done... We went to Sweden. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:But your stuff, I mean... He does stuff like more like a retaliate kind of stuff, but he does like some of that heavier stuff does well over there.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, well,
SPEAKER_01:I was just joking. No, but you should. We should talk to him. Jack, if you're listening to this, hit me up. But yeah, it's a rough venue. It's a rough gig. Santa Barbara is always weird. Or San Luis Obispo is always weird. You can't figure it out.
SPEAKER_02:Whatever. It just feels good to play in a new place.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we played one time. It was a good crowd. Next time it was super light. Like 70 people come. And he's like, oh well. Maybe we barely broke even. But it was fun. You guys went, didn't you? Yeah, it was terrible.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but the day isn't terrible. See, In Control, we used to tour, and it was like, really, a lot of our shows were shitty, so we would make sure we did the fun stuff during the day. You know, find somewhere to swim. If there's, like, some snow on that hill over there, we're going to go sled it. Yeah. You know, because if you have a good day, it's like the show is just a bonus. Yeah. You know, like, I... I feel bad for the bands that go professional touring out the gate. Oh, we have to get to the show at 3 p.m. and do soundcheck, and now we're just sitting in a parking lot. You don't get to enjoy the day. You're touring around the country. You don't get to enjoy the country. That's amazing. I don't know. You've got to not take anything for granted.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I remember Tony and I, we always... Piled up. So I remember we were going and snowboarding. Before snowboards ever existed, it was like a barfoot snowboard with a rope on the nose. And we just hiked up the snow. Someone had it, and we were just eating shit, but we were just having so much fun. We used to go to Salt Lake City a lot. We had a good crew. We did a lot of West stuff. We did multiple tours of the West. Like Arizona, the cities in Arizona, and then Albuquerque, and then... Like Denver, Boulder.
SPEAKER_02:Did you ever have to travel in the back of the truck when it was wintertime?
SPEAKER_01:No, we never really toured. But listen to this story. This is a great story. And it happens. It's Tony. Tony was dating a girl that went to college at the University of Tucson or whatever. OK. And so we played a show in Tucson and Phoenix. And they're close to each other.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, 90 minutes.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And so it was like summertime, it would always be raining or something. So we were in the van and we had a trailer that broke down and we just locked, we left it in the desert. And then so we had stuff, gear in the back of a truck and then we were in this other truck that, you know, his girlfriend was in a sorority. So we're driving between those two places and we were like sitting like... cars around the freeway back then. I remember looking and they were under a tarp and Tony and his girlfriend was sitting under the tarp and it was like, you know, and it was kind of raining and it was covering our gear. And all of a sudden something caught my eye and the tarp like ripped off and they were in 69. So good. Oh my God. If I, how many times I've thought about that vision and laughed over like over the last 30 years, it has to be like hundreds of But that's the thing. That's hard to beat. That's the thing. Every show, you would walk away with a story you could tell. Something weird would happen. Something strange. But that one was awesome. Maria Blodgett was her name. No, just toss it out there. Allegedly, that was her name. Sorry, beeped that out. You could have that wrong. I wonder what happened to that. But it was, you know, we were... It was early on. This was early tours. That was the best night of her life. Oh, man. Yeah, to have Tony like that? Yeah, dude. We all wish we had Tony like that. All right. You got anything else? I don't know. I guess the subject matter could change and we could go on for hours, but I think that's maybe a good place to kind of call it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we'll bring you back and we'll do you and someone else. Your tag team.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, talk about... Because you think about... You smile sitting right here. Think about the whole... The different things of the scene that happened. Like the Oxnard Community Center years. And then the town and country with She-Man. Remember? Is that what we called her? Yeah, She-Man. So there was all these different... It was probably six-month chunks of things that happened. New venues and some bar that... Lost its liquor license, and so before they were trying to make money, and my brother was booking some shows at this town and country bar. On the stroll. On the stroll, like in the Wainimi Road, like the prostitution stroll. Back during the wild times. Yeah, but it was just always really never a dull moment.
SPEAKER_02:All
SPEAKER_01:right, well, let's do that. We'll
SPEAKER_02:bring you back, and we'll do you and Ishmael in a few months.
SPEAKER_01:We can talk about the peace missions. That's a whole other story. Because when you weren't playing, what were you going to do? So we would go out and explore these haunted things in town as a group. It was so silly and so fun. That's my thing about the Nardcore scene and the first generation. It was like... Like, the comedy, the level of comedy, the entertainment factor of, like, you know, like Ronnie Baird and Ismael and the Hernandez brothers and, you know, Kyle and just, like, Tony, you know, and, you know, Henry and all those guys. It was just really fun. I mean, more than anything else, it was just people that were just really, really fucking funny. You know, like, just sore from laughing, you know? Anyway, but, yeah, that's what I mean. There's... It gets lost in the memory, but if you had a little panel of people starting to talk and bouncing off, like, oh, remember this show? Oh, yeah, this, that. It would probably be some entertaining stuff.
SPEAKER_02:I think we'll do that. Like I said, I'm enjoying doing the one-on-ones because it allows everyone to paint their own picture and to not get overshadowed by another person. Because if you do two people at once for the first interview, there can be a more dominant personality that takes over. And then I'm only getting one perspective. And I want everyone's perspective.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because the music stuff is one thing. And then you think about the personal accounts. Sure. Personal accounts. It would be interesting to hear what Dave Hawk has to say. And what Amy Cherry. People who weren't in bands. Well, I really
SPEAKER_02:do want to get some of those ancillary figures. Because... I
SPEAKER_01:mean, they were equally as important.
SPEAKER_02:No, but a lot of times they're... they're paying more attention than you.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, like, uh, I want to get Albert. He, uh, he did two tours of the control as our roadie. And then he did a couple with no motive. So that's just kind of fun. Like, what's your perspective of going on tour with like these two bands that are totally different. Like the experience is totally
SPEAKER_01:different. John was such a dick.
SPEAKER_02:I know if that's all it is, that'll be very disappointing.
SPEAKER_01:No, no, no, that, you know, cause I mean, I always look back and I think about, you know, if, you know, like, Like, if there was ever any, like, wrongdoings and things, you know. But it seemed like it was pretty mellow. I have to say there was, you know, there was a couple of some band dramas. But it just seemed like there was always something to do. There was always somewhere to hang out. And there was always, like, somewhere to play, kind of. You know, there would be spans where, like, there was nowhere to play in town. And we would just go to shows in L.A. But, yeah, it's, yeah, there's really... It's just kind of a blur, but it's a good blur. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Well, thanks so much. Yeah, thank you. That was fun. All right. That was fun. All right.