Art Therapy with Ania Wasowicz | Season 8 Episode 5

In this episode, we discuss Art Therapy with Ania Wasowicz, LCAT. During the conversation, Ania explains what Art Therapy is, who may benefit from art therapy and how she found her passion for supporting people through the creative arts. Ania also discusses why art therapy may work better for some kids than more traditional talk therapy. Finally, she touches on myths and misunderstandings around Art Therapy. For example, Ania reassures us that you don't have to be an artist to benefit from Art Therapy!

Ania is a board-certified and licensed creative arts therapist in New York with over eight years of experience using art therapy and EMDR across inpatient settings, schools, and private practice. She works with adolescents and adults navigating anxiety, depression, and trauma. She also currently serves on the Art Therapy Credentialing Board. Ania believes deeply in the power of creativity as a supportive, grounding tool for expression, regulation and meaningful healing.  

Links:

American Art Therapy Association

Art Therapy at The Parish School

Unbabbled Instagram

Transcript

Stephanie Landis:

Welcome for another episode of Unbabbled. Today we are talking about art therapy and we have art therapists, Ania Wasowicz, and we are so excited to talk to you. As I was saying right before we started recording, before coming to Parrish, I had no idea what art therapy was, and I have slowly been learning a little bit over the years, but I'm really excited to dive into this and learn even more from you. So welcome and thank you for being here.

Ania Wasowicz:

Thank you for having me.

Stephanie Landis:

We're so excited. So before we, well, let's start with the most basic question. What is art therapy?

Ania Wasowicz:

Art therapy, oddly enough, is exactly how it sounds, but it is ultimately therapy with the creative arts folded into it. So that could be any modality. We could be using clay or paint, we could be drawing, but it is just another form essentially of being able to administer therapy. 

Stephanie Landis:

So you use

Ania Wasowicz:

Creative

Stephanie Landis:

Arts?

Ania Wasowicz:

Exactly. Sometimes it's directive focused where we might be doing something where I'll ask you, I think one of the most popular ones is draw a house to train a person or the KHTP, which is kinetic house tree person, which is asking you to draw someone. The kinetic part of it is draw someone who's in motion. And these directives can often give you an idea of maybe where someone's insecurity or what their family life is like or what they're struggling with just based off of the characteristics of the drawings. So that's more the technical side of it where it's the therapeutic training and then the creative part of it is more so maybe we're really stuck. Someone's really tense and we're just like, we're going to just use big paintbrushes. You might feel kind of silly because let's say this is a teen or an adult, we're just going to let you move your arms super wide, get some of this tension out so you could sit down and have a maybe uncomfortable or difficult discussion. So it's just a different form of accessing people than traditional therapy essentially.

Stephanie Landis:

That's so cool. How did you get into this area of therapy?

Ania Wasowicz:

I actually initially went to school for fine art, so that was my undergrad. And then I got out of my first two years of, I went to Pratt Munson, which is upstate New York, and I was going to transfer either to Brooklyn or go to a different college to continue that. And I had some issues and I was like, you know what, let me just kind of revisit. So then I wound up going to another school for therapy. It wasn't actually therapy, but the program essentially covered a lot of therapeutic things and I was like, I think I like this. But then I left school and I said, well, now I have two completely unrelated things and I have no idea what I'm meant to do with this. And so there was no chat GPT then. So I'm just typing in being like, is there something that can marry these two things? And I saw art therapy and I had never heard of it, which was pretty cool. There was a lot of talk of art education, but that just was not something that I was familiar with, so I completely stumbled into it and then fell in love with it.

Stephanie Landis:

That's so interesting that it wasn't like you were set out to do this. You're like, I follow two things that I like and now I'm here and can merge them. Which also kind of answered one of my other questions. It's like, does everybody who does art therapy, are they secretly really great artists as well?

Ania Wasowicz:

I would say most, I mean, I don't know if you have met any artists, but I think it's hard for them to ever say except for the few that are like, yeah, I'm really great. It's a part of the personality maybe, but you do have, ultimately you have to have once you get to the graduate program, some kind of background in art. I actually, I'm a member of the art therapy credentialing board. I'm on the board of directors and we recently started to work on how people can come into the field without necessarily having to come from that background.

Meredith Krimmel:

What about people who are receiving art therapy? Are they generally people, children or adults who enjoy art have a strength in art? Is that typically one of the factors you're looking at if you would recommend art therapy for someone?

Ania Wasowicz:

I love that question because that is something that I feel like is such a barrier for people. So there's usually two groups of clients I find, or even patients, they're the people who come into it because they really like art and they're just like, someone's using art. I want to know more. I find that those are the clients that I will set out to do something creative from the start. We're moving through with an idea that they set out for what they want to work on. Let's say it's confidence, we're picking a word and we're moving through all of these different mediums while working on this target phrase or word exploring. How does confidence look or what would you imagine Confidence is a painting or a 3D piece of work. And then there's a client who has no idea, they do not do art. They're like, I haven't touched anything.

I'm awful at it. And I feel like that's even better because when's the last time I will ask someone, when's the last time that you even did art outside of school? And I'm just like, I don't do it. It's great because now you get to play, you get to explore, you get to tap into something that you haven't used and you don't have to necessarily sit face to face with someone. Just be like, well, I'm having these issues, it's just forget all this and let's just open ourselves up. But people freak out. They go, I can't even draw a stick figure. You're like, you don't have to be good. You just have to be able to be open and you have to just trust the process. So yeah, you do not have to be in a Picasso by any means.

Meredith Krimmel:

So that means really anyone could benefit from art therapy if you feel like, yeah,

Ania Wasowicz:

And it's great because children want to do things. Sometimes they find it to be intimidating, so they can definitely benefit from that. Or the best part about kids is that when you use art with them, it doesn't necessarily feel like therapy. And each art therapist, I can't speak for everyone, but I find that I don't even present certain things. I'm just like, we're just going to do this drawing or come play with some play with me. Because sometimes it's just about the connection. The vehicle is art and we're not worried about necessarily what we're even talking about. But for a teen, make a collage. If you're not good at art, that's fine. When's the last time that you sat down and just listened to music and didn't have to do homework or go to sports or do this? Right. So that's how it could be helpful to someone who's not great, but what do I do with it?

And for an adult, when's the last time you took time for yourself outside of work? Maybe this is your hour to do that and you can do whatever you want to do with it, and then maybe some stuff comes up, maybe it doesn't. Maybe you just carved out time for yourself today to show up and to be creative, and that's how it could be even better for someone. So that's why I say I like the person who maybe isn't so great at it. It can access so many things for you. So it is for everyone truly.

Stephanie Landis:

Yeah. I mostly work with children and I love working with the little bitties. And for a long time when I was doing it, I had a parent once who was like, I don't understand what you're doing. All you're doing is playing with my kid. And I was like, great. If that's what it looks like, then my speech therapy is going really, really well. I'm sure that you get something similar.

Ania Wasowicz:

Yeah. Yes, it is. I love that they keep coming out with all these drawings, but are you working on the fact that so-and-so's not doing this and that? Well, no, you are. It does feel like sometimes, especially with something so outwardly creative when there's a product or when you go to therapy, maybe in this traditional talk therapy, you're looking for nuance changes and are they doing something different? Are they waking up happier? But when it seems like someone's maybe not doing all that much and they come out with a piece of art, yeah, I think the parents sometimes really the guardians can feel a little bit, it seems like offended or insulted, I'll be honest. Like, oh, I spent my time coming here for this. And they miss the fact that we, and I'm sure you can attest to this too, that we're connecting that they have a safe adult that we are. You don't have to know necessarily what we're talking about, but just kind of let them have their space and know that a part of becoming comfortable with someone is trusting them. And that's how you can build that relationship pretty quickly too, is just like, I'm just here to support your needs. But yeah, I definitely get that a lot. And the hospital is different because I've had that experience too where the staff thinks something about what you're doing. It's like, oh, there goes the art ladies with the markers,

Stephanie Landis:

Just the art lady. I'm sure though that it's got to be easier for people to open up when they have something to do with their hands or creative focus instead of it feeling like pressure to just explain everything verbally.

Ania Wasowicz:

Yeah, yeah. That's hitting it right on the head. It seems like you have a great understanding of it. We need you to advocate for us. Please.

Stephanie Landis:

No, I'm just repeating. We have a wonderful art therapist at Parish and these are some of the things that she keeps trying to help us to understand too. And I can see it. I can even see it sometimes with talking through my own kids that they'll talk to me while we're doing something else instead of when I want to sit down with them and be like, have a full on lecture.

Ania Wasowicz:

Yeah. So technically speaking, when we think about how the brain works and art, we're accessing both sides of the brain. When you're creating, I'm doing this, I'm thinking coloring or something like that or holding something, and you are able to bring down some of that anxiety and that tension too when you're, you're left to just have this space. And also the typical thing of if your parent is talking to you, you're locked in that moment. Maybe you're making eye contact, you don't want to, right? It is a distractor ultimately, but it's also a fun distractor. It is talking but not, and ultimately if you're doing something and you don't have to make that intense eye contact and stuff, you will be like, oh yeah, this happened at school today, and you have a moment to, I like to be the person who's kind of playing it cool, being like, oh, I know what happened. I'm not going to respond. Like, oh, she finally told me something. Just that. Tell me about that or don't or draw it. Sometimes a part of that relationship is giving them the space to say, why don't you just put it on the back of the paper? And if you want to share it, you can.

But when you're doing traditional talk therapy, it's hard to say that. Maybe you are navigating that by just saying, we'll talk about that next time, and what if they already brought it up means that they are curious in a way of how you respond. So even that ability to just kind of dive into something and hide it or put it away or fold it up is not how do you fold up a conversation besides just avoidance. But yeah, it keeps you busy, it relaxes you, so maybe you're feeling ready to dive into something.

Meredith Krimmel:

I've noticed with my own kids, sometimes when we're busy doing something else like coloring or making bracelets with beads or those loom bracelet kits, sometimes I find that they're just so much more verbal about their day, and I guess it also feels just much more natural and less confrontational. How was your day what you do? But when you're just sitting there threading beads on a string, sometimes it just more naturally starts to come out. And I do feel like, especially with my son, if I can get him doing some sort of craft or activity, I feel like I get so much more from him just we're not looking at each other, we're just doing our task and he's just chatting it up.

Ania Wasowicz:

It feels safe if you're able to do something enjoyable and have a conversation. I try to think about adult wise, if you're talking with someone and in a car ride compared to if you're sitting at a table, it's just that ability to refocus or shift your attention to something else. I love that you do that, keeping their hands busy. It's keeping you guys able to communicate, and like you said, it's less confrontational. I'm sure even as a parent, it feels like you're meeting them where they're at and you're on their level because you're also doing the activity with them, which is comforting in a way that you're engaged fully, your attention's fully on them. That makes it easy to talk to.

Meredith Krimmel:

Yeah, how was your day? Fine, you do nothing all the time, but then get distracted by some sort. And of course, I find it much easier to engage my younger daughter in those types of activities than my son who's almost 11, but when I can, I do feel like he just opens up so much more freely and casually. He's not trying to purposefully connect or tell me something. He just starts talking about his day and it's the most I get from him.

Ania Wasowicz:

Right. I'm trying to think. There's probably things that one and 11-year-old be into for not making him.

Meredith Krimmel:

Sometimes you can just catch him at the right time, some little fine motor task. I don't know. Just feel like, again, my 8-year-old daughter's a lot easier. She's always happy to draw or make bracelets or whatever. So with my son, it's much more gross motor activities. I feel like he wants to go outside and throw the ball, but when I can get him just sitting at the table doing an activity with me, I feel like I get so much more from him and not even purposefully, which is great.

Ania Wasowicz:

Now, again, that time spent too, my brain is going, maybe we're making you guys don how to make origami anything. Just do this with me. You can bond over the frustration of trying to fold these little wines.

Meredith Krimmel:

Hey, for airplanes, he and I did that for a while. He got this paper airplane book, so we were just folding paper airplanes. That was something enjoyable for him. I heard you say that you can work on things like confidence and connection through art therapy. Are there other major concepts that you find that people usually come to art therapy to address? Are there specific things that they're wanting to work through that you find art therapy really beneficial for?

Ania Wasowicz:

Yeah, so confidence. I think also some of it is speaking from my experience, I work with people who ultimately deal with anxiety, depression, and usually that's evident in their work, which I was talking about before with some of those characteristics that you look for, which are really specific, but very interesting. Once I tell you you can't unsee it, I promise you'll be looking at it, but often it's really hard things. I'm EMDR certified, so sometimes it is also trauma. That is a very difficult thing to discuss to someone. It's hard to know that you want to work on this thing and you'd have to just essentially dump or unload. You'd have to confront it head on. So when people come in for that, you can say you can give prompts. It's not necessarily about that event. Sometimes you can ask questions of what was your favorite toy or what is your favorite toy? Depending on the age more so when it's children, I find that parents especially turn art therapy because how do you unpack this major event in this way? It's so heavy and so intense. That may feel almost cruel to just say, let's just talk about it. 

Ania Wasowicz:

Sometimes it could be so intense that you just don't want to have to have them talk about this massive thing. And what actually is interesting is I find when children are doing art therapy and they may have had some kind of trauma, they sometimes aren't even aware of the fact that they're avoiding it. They'll do so many other things, and that's where the drawing could be really helpful. But they may draw something or someone you're like, who is that? And you can see the reaction you like, oh gosh, I wasn't ready for this. And adults, if they want to tap into, besides trauma, I would say maybe a loss of sense of self or something like that, or enjoyment or pleasure, not necessarily related to depression, but just trying to figure out what's next for them. Sometimes I feel that they turn to art therapy or the creative arts because I've talked about it a million times. I've gone down this route and nothing's seeming to shift and I just want to address in a different way. So I find that that's also the client that comes into this, and that's another presentation that I've seen, which is interesting because then they're even more open because I like how things haven't worked and I still feel disconnected or something like that.

Stephanie Landis:

What kind of training do you go through to become an art therapist?

Ania Wasowicz:

So it's two years of graduate school, and then in that time you are taking classes that are mental health classes. You are doing these drawing and analysis classes, which is where you start to learn some of the attributes and structure of directives and you learn the things that you look for. It's a variety of things. I mean, we're learning weight of line pressure, meanings of color, meanings of even tools used when offered different tools. It's very specific. And then after school you have your hours of observation. You have before you graduate, sorry, you have your internship and then you have hours of observation after, and then you, which is about a thousand hours, and then you take your exam either if your state has an exam, you would take that stuff. For New York, we have an LCA exam, and then there is the board certification, which is your big exam. Some states only have the board certification exam as their state exam, and sometimes it requires more hours for your state exam and for the board certification. So it is rigorous. It is. I know that you guys can relate to the amount of time that you spend studying and being observed, but that is the training essentially for it.

Stephanie Landis:

Yeah, it seems like there's a lot that goes into it. It can seem a little from the outside, a little out there it's also very rooted in science and there's a lot of training and a lot of things that go into it, so it's much deeper than it might just casually seem when you're like, oh yeah, my kid goes and he colors and he does therapy.

Ania Wasowicz:

The thing is that it is, I'm doing all of the things that I would have to do to be a clinician, and you have to then also learn how to apply the art portion of it because there's times where people will see that you're an art therapist and they come in and they're just like, I don't want to do this. So if it was only, not only, but if we were simply focusing on the art as far as our studies go and someone doesn't want to do that, then we would be in a big issue in some kind of pickle. So we have to learn all of these things and also be proficient in being able to use the materials. I've had professors who tell you, well, what if your person can't use this? You have to be able to help them utilize this technique.

So you're maybe becoming familiar with playing. You've never used it before or you don't know how to apply marker. There's people who their frustration level will grow because they're just like, this doesn't work. Let's say this. Even something as simple as an alcohol based marker, it's not like they're shaking it, nothing's coming out and they lose it. You have to be able to know as small as it may seem that you have to shake these beforehand or that they get stuck and not to give that to someone who seems, you can visually see this as someone who's having a really difficult time. Their stress levels are very high, their frustration tolerance is very low. You would not give them a certain material that's taught to you too, which is not something that you just happen to come across. You wouldn't hand them scissors, you wouldn't hand them.

Maybe you're giving them just a glue stick and some paper and not to infantilize someone, but to meet them where they're at. So it is definitely rooted in psychology, still science and art. It feels like you're taking a lot of different tools and techniques and you have to be proficient at all of 'em. So it is very intense. It's enjoyable, but it is a lot of knowledge and things, and you also have to be proficient in what's happening in therapy Now, being able to access all those, is it your communication you need to work on, am I talking about gottman or you know what I mean? There's just so many aspects of it I think are unfortunately looked over, which is definitely something that us as our therapist and especially the art therapy board look to educate people on because it is so helpful and so useful, but people just don't know enough about it, and it's not a very old field. It's definitely one of the younger ones, but it's old enough that it feels a little bit frustrating that it's so overlooked in a way.

Stephanie Landis:

We are lucky enough to have an art therapist at our school, which is not very common, and you've mentioned having art therapists in hospitals. What other settings do art therapists work in?

Ania Wasowicz:

So I have worked in inpatient psych ed two hospitals and private practice. I know that to hear that you have an art therapist in your school is definitely not commonplace. I absolutely love that. 

Stephanie Landis:

So mostly private practice in inpatient and outpatient

Ania Wasowicz:

Hospitals. Mostly there's an organization that has people who are artists who also learn about therapy in their own time, but they're not art therapists. That's why I'm like, I'm trying to phrase it in a way we are working on that, but it is mostly private practice and mostly in the hospital. People will go in the field too where you're going to someone's home, but it's still traditionally in a therapy setting like that. I can't really think of anywhere else, which is, I don't know if that's a problem or if that's a no,

Stephanie Landis:

It's good to know. It is interesting that you mentioned that there are people out there that are artists first that might not have the therapy background training. If somebody's looking to find somebody that's probably most likely in private practice, what kind of credentials would they look for?

Ania Wasowicz:

Yeah, so you would look for someone who has the creative arts therapy. Like I said, for New York, it would be the lca. It's not just New York that has the lcat. I think there's a few other states that have that, but you would look for a TR or a TR bc, which is art, a register art therapist or register therapist, and also board certified. Each state has different ones. I think there are, gosh, I would help if I knew them offhand. I'm sorry. I could look. Each state is

Stephanie Landis:

Different than just have to Google your state and art therapy

Ania Wasowicz:

Certification, and so there's this organization, which is noaa, which is a national organization for arts and health. They are one of the organizations I think of that have artists that they employ that are all over, so they're in hospice, they're in the community. They will do community events. I even know some that are here in New York that will do and all over, but they'll do a block party and bring art to people and things like that. And what the art therapy credentialing board has tried to do is figure out how we can have these different types of artists and what education we can give them. On the other end. I was talking about if you are really into psychology and you've done your studies and you want to figure out the art portion, but how can we give these people who have this passion for art, the therapeutic training, and to what level, to what standard are they having to come into it and what are they having to learn?

What are they having to be proficient in because they're accessing parts that we don't have? There's still similar to therapy. You have to either go through your insurance or pay out of pocket, and there's this really funky kind of InBetween where if you're in the community, is it something we're just doing? Unfortunately, when you have a license and things like that, there's standards and ethics you have to meet. You can't just do art out in the open in a certain way because of these policies. So these community artists are so amazing at what they do, but how can we also give them that backing to say that they also are equipped if anything comes up for you? So we're working on ways to be in different settings. I will say that much, that will definitely expand the field as well if people feel like it's easier to access, which I think is really great.

Stephanie Landis:

That is very cool. 

Stephanie Landis:

All right. Well, at the end of each episode, we ask our guests if they had one piece of advice to give, and it can be on any topic. It doesn't have to be directly on art therapy, but if you have one general blanket advice that you like, advice, what would you like to say to our listeners

Ania Wasowicz:

That be good to yourself, make sure that you show up for yourself? Therapy is for everyone. I feel like at every turn, it is absolutely amazing to be able to have a supportive party that you can turn to, that you can seek advice from, or just some comfort as you move through the different stages of life. Try not to let the idea of this stigma burden you and be a barrier to doing what you need to do to feel like your best self. You won't always be maybe the higher self that you would like to be. Right. That's not, therapy doesn't necessarily do that for you at every turn, but it is an amazing tool that I feel like is not utilized enough because people feel like I have my friend or I have my mom. So get that support if you can. It is amazing.

Stephanie Landis:

I love that, and I love framing it as being good and kind to yourself by giving you that outlet that you need. Yeah. Well, thank you so much. It has been wonderful to talk with you, and again, I learned a lot and I'm excited to have everyone else here and learn more about art therapy too.

Ania Wasowicz:

Thank you so much, and it was great to talk to you. I'm happy to talk art therapy anytime.