What do you need to understand about openness in adoption when you are first considering adopting. What is it and what is it not. We talk with Lori Holden, author of The Open-Hearted Way to Open Adoption, blogger, and adoptive mom.
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What do you need to understand about openness in adoption when you are first considering adopting. What is it and what is it not. We talk with Lori Holden, author of The Open-Hearted Way to Open Adoption, blogger, and adoptive mom.
Please leave us a rating or review RateThisPodcast.com/creatingafamily
* Note that this is an automatic transcription, please forgive the errors.
Speaker 2:welcome to creating a family talk about adoption and foster care. Today we're going to be talking about what you must know about open adoption when you're first thinking about adopting. We will be talking with Laurie Holden. She is the author of one of my favorite books The Openhearted Way to Open Adoption. She is also a blogger at lavender luz that's L av enD E N D E R L U z.com and she was named an atrial angel and adoption in 2018 for her work and helping families more easily and effectively navigate the complexities of adoption. And she's an adoptive mom to two teens. So thank you so much Laurie, for being with us to demystify open adoption today. Thank you so much Don. I'm excited to talk with you. I think
Speaker 3:if it, when people first start thinking about adoption, they may come in with some preconceived ideas about what open adoption is and isn't. So let's tackle some of these. The first myth are our preconceived idea is that open adoption is basically co-parenting. So what would you say to people who are thinking, I'm not wanting, I'm not wanting to co-parent. I am. I want to be the parent
Speaker 4:and you know, I'm putting myself back 19 years and I'm remembering that same fear that I had that that was a truth. And it's not a truth because it's not comparative and it's an open adoption doesn't mean you know, completely open without boundaries. All of parenting has to have some well-defined and intentional boundaries including those around this kind of added dimension that adoptive families have of birth family. Now I think the key word is intentional. They have to be well thought out boundaries and policies on how to deal with different things over the years and things change over the years as, as you know, it's hard to remember that when, when you're at the beginning of the journey
Speaker 3:very much so. That's exactly the case. This hard to kind of go back and thinking about that. What you feel and your experience with an infant is very different from your experience with a 12 year old, a 14 year old and 19 year old. And in my case, you know, a 20 year old, I mean it's just, it's different as we go along. Another myth that we often hear is that open adoption will make me feel less like the mom or I will feel like I'm competing for the role of mom. So what would you say about that?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think one of the challenging things about adoption is that I am seeing this in air quotes. Everyone knows about adoption, but what I found is that what everyone knows about adoption comes from a really dysfunctional time in adoption history, which is, you know, mid century last, the 20th century when we set up this construct that there could only be one legitimate set of parents and we had this either or mindset. Either they're the parents or you are. And to make you the, we're going to have to obliterate the existence of the other ones. And so this either or mindset kind of leads into this myth that you're talking about. I will never be enough as long as there's another out there. But that whole arrow was just an experiment. It's not what adoption always has been or always needs to be. I think there's room to make this a both and to really kind of accept that your family was, is coming together in a different way. There are birth parents and birth family members out there and let's embrace that instead of be afraid of it because it exists, you know, we might as well accept what exists. Well that leads in some ways too. Another myth and that is that open adoption is confusing to children. And so, I mean if there are two moms that exist in two families that exist, people logically think, why isn't that confusing to children? I mean don't children need consistency? Don't they need to know who is the mom? So is it confusing? I think that that would be confusing if the either or construct was a functional construct, but it's turned out not to be one. So what we actually hear from is from adult adoptees is that not knowing all your pieces and not having access to your history, that's what can, what's confusing. It's the adults in this either or construct that assume that it's confusing to kids, but you know, they like knowing what, what's the truth, what's their truth? They like knowing what is that D confuses things for them. Do children. I think the, the fear is that children will play one parent off of one, one mom off against the other. I think one of the parents often will live in fear of the, you're not my real mom card. You know, a child in anger who throws it down and says, you know, when you say Johnny, it's time to go clean your room. I don't have to clean my room. You can't make me. You're not my real mom. I think parents fear that the idea of openness will lead, add credence to that tyrant, to that demand or yeah, take middle, whatever. Absolutely. That is probably the number one fear that everybody, including me going into open adoption has not even open adoption. Any kind of adoption is that deep. That fear deep down within us that we're not real because there's another, because we're not the only, we're not real, but we are real. I mean we're doing all the real things, right? So the fear of the child triggering that button can only happen if we have that button to trigger. So if we're able to neutralize that button before the child touches it, bangs on it, whatever, then that's not going to have any power. And I actually give this example in some of the webinars and workshops that I lead exactly what you were talking about. I'm not going to clean my room. You can't make me clean my room because you're not my real mom. Well if you haven't worked through that trigger, this is what it looks like. What do you mean I'm not your real mom. I am making you a real dinner. I'm driving a real car and your child has reduced you to a six year old. Your child has gotten you off the Mark. You are not in control of yourself. You are not in connection with your child. And those are two things that any pre adoptive parent is probably really wanting an envisioning. And the other thing you've done is you've given away your power to your sister just gave away. You just gave them the power and if it worked, once I guarantee work again, don't try it again. Yeah. The next time they want to get control of you, they know exactly where to hone in on. But on the other hand, if it looks like this, really, I don't feel real to you. Welcome me. I'm pitching myself and a who do you think's in there cooking? You're a real dinner regardless of who your real mom is, your room needs to be cleaned. So let me help you get started. You want to do the books first or the toys first and then while you're cleaning, you can also take that as an opening for connection, which would be something like, Hey, I noticed you mentioned your other mom. I'm wondering if you're thinking about her right now. And so this becomes an opportunity for closeness and connection rather than disconnection and being off balance. So it's really a lot of inner work that people can do to neutralize that myth. And again, that myth just comes from that either or construct that we've all grown up with. But it doesn't ha that's not the only way to look at open adoption. Okay. So another myth is that open and adoption means that basically you're adopting a whole new family. Well what you really want is just to adopt the baby. Yes, the baby fever can make us not see everything real clearly. And so kind of getting rid of the fever part of it and still pursuing the family building. But I think I've seen you on creating a family. Lots of stories about in-laws and I think you talked about the annoying slightly annoying grandmother role, which I love but this is similar to that because yeah, you just want a baby or maybe you just want a spouse but you accept with a spouse that you're going to get in-laws. And if you're being open about things and having embracing arms and open arms, you are welcoming those other people into your life around your beloved. And I think we could look at adoption in the same way, opening up to the people who are integral to your Beloved's existence. You don't have to like take them into your home, but if you can open your heart to them, it's going to be better for everyone involved in terms of intimacy and connection. Not in terms of complexity necessarily. Yeah. And if you're, let's say you have a biological child and they marry some day and that person is important into important in their life, I think most of us would at least say that at least in theory we want to embrace that person because as you say, we love our child and that person is important to our child and so we will embrace them and do our best to make them feel welcome in our family. And in a way that's similar. I'm just supporting my, you said that similar to open adoption, but in some ways it's a little different because oftentimes in open adoption we are mixing different cultures, maybe even different ethnicities, different races, different, different ways of seeing the world. And that can happen. Of course. Obviously in in-laws you can marry a person from coming from a different culture, different social, economic class, different everything and that certainly can happen. And so can your child, but I think it may happen less often. Maybe not. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah. And, and I think that's very true and it's, it does happen a lot. Political differences, religious differences, lifestyle differences. Yeah. No longer I'm on this path. The more I learned that non-judgment is helpful and the intentionality to love someone is a good place to start. It doesn't take you to the finish line, but I think really trying to love someone because they're connected to the one you love is helpful, but it doesn't mean it's not going to be without challenges. Okay. And that leads us beautifully into the next myth, which is, or not myth but preconceived idea. And that is open adoption is missing. That's a preconceived idea. And I think that, um, I would say it's, it's an accurate one, but let me let you, uh, decide whether that's accurate or not or it can be, I'm with you on that. I see the evolution of adoption in three stages. In the first stage I've already kind of talked about that's the either or stage of the closed adoption era where we had a wall, we had a wall between a child's beginnings and they're invested their lives. And the way we dealt with that stage was just to deny that anything had happened and that didn't turn out to work out so well. So we moved into open adoption era where we turned that wall into a door. And from with the doors it has two settings and if you're going to have contact with our family members, that's letting in a whole lot of complexity because if you think about it, any one person is complex and then you add a relationship into it and that's going to be complexity squared, especially when that's so emotionally charged as one in adoption. And then if you take that over time over all the child's ages and stages and your, um, maturing and developing and the birth parents going through their, their lives, then you know, that's just a tremendous amount of complexity coming in your door. So it's no wonder in stage two when people say, Hey, go out and have contact, let us know how it goes for you. It's no wonder that that complexity led people to want to just close that door. Cause that's hard. We didn't anticipate that complexity. So I think about stage three where we are now, which is openness and adoption, not just about the contact but about dealing with what's going on within ourselves. Kind of a mindfulness so that we are clear in building that connection with our child. This is the openness and adoption and this is where we try to deal with all that complexity. So I would say that that one, that preconceived idea is probably an accurate one. We are in parenting is complex. And then parenting with birth, family existence and a child figuring out their identity amid all this, that that's going to bring complexity. And yeah, this leads into the final myth, more preconceived idea. And that is that open adoption is not worth the trouble. It's messy, it's complicated, you know, it's stressful, it's whatever. So why do it? And yeah, I, I've had moments when I've thought that too with, um, any of the four birth parents that we, that come and go, I should say that, you know, it's not a static thing. Things are always fluid throughout the child's life and throughout our lives and with the birth parents in or out for various reasons. So the reason to go through the complexity is because it's preparing your child Ted deal with their life as it is. It's helping them integrate all their pieces. The premise of my book is that adoption creates a split in a person between their biology. That's the DNA that we're born with and their biography, the life that's written by people we call family. And this openness is kind of a way to help bring those two together and reintegrate that biology and that biography. And that's why it would be worth the trouble because it's really all about the child, you know? And there's been some fascinating research and I thought it was, I liked how you said that the idea that we had of adoption being a total starting a new, a baby interest of family. I'm speaking of domestic infant adoption at this point in her as a family has no memory, obviously no contact, no nothing. What happened before and the people that created this child no longer exists. The new families formed. There was even a time when we didn't particularly think it was important to tell children they were adopted. So that was a construct for a relatively short period of time in our history. And there has been some fascinating research. The one that I am most familiar with and have continued to follow in, I believe it's still ongoing, is the Minnesota Texas adoption project M torque. And um, it has, it was this longitudinal. It's been following families for, I think, I don't know what phase it's in now, but the, the children they originally were following or now I believe in their twenties. And the premise they began with was that open adoption would be best
Speaker 3:for, and they, and they, they let me back up and say that they interviewed and did research on all members of what we call the adoption triad, the birth family, the adoptive parents and the adopted person, the adopted child in this case, and they originally started with the premise that open adoption would be better for primarily for the birth parents. It would erase some of the unknowns. It would erase from them waking up in the middle of the night going, Oh my God, I wonder if, if my son is okay. I hope that the people who are parenting him are loving him and, and I hope that I made the right decision. I hope everything is going okay. You know, those type of feelings, the unknown. But what they have found is that at least in the second stage, and this is when the kids were, I believe in their tweens and teens and what they found is of the triad, the part of the triad that was the most satisfied with open adoption worthy adoptive parents. Because it also took away the unknown for them of fear that the birth parents would, would come back and try to take their child or would somehow interfere. Now I suspect that the, the reason that necessarily adopted people that they adopted at this point, there were kids, you know, there just wasn't, they had grown up with knowledge of their birth families so they knew nothing else. So they had nothing to compare it to. So I suspect that's the reason why that they were not the ones who had, who were saying that they were the most satisfied because it was their life. It's how it exists. They had nothing. They knew nothing but that. But what they're continuing to find is that as our children mature and try to put all the pieces of their life together and understand who they are and form their identity of where they are in who they are in this world, having knowledge of their biology and having knowledge of why they were placed. Uh, and not hypothetical, but you know, going to the source and being able to find out has been very important to them. So is open adoption worth the trouble? Well, if it's better for our kids in the long run, which is just restating what you said, if it's better for our kids, then yeah, it's worth the trouble because that's our role as a parent. Yeah. And I'll, I'll confess that when the reason I embraced open adoption back, you know, 19 years ago when I was at the start of this journey was not because it was, I thought it was going to be better for my kids or even for the hypothetical birth mother who would choose us. It was because I didn't want that unknown to hover over me for 18 years and then on the 18th birthday, yeah. Have the real mom show up and be embraced. And so I thought this idea of open adoption where she's always kind of around and it's never going to be this big surprise. I thought that sounded really great for me. Yeah. And that's exactly what the research found is that there
Speaker 4:was no mystery there. You know, Johnny's mom and very often Johnny's dad and you see them for who they are and for, and you understand often the reasons that they made the choices. So yeah, it takes that, uh, you're right, you support the research. Lord. And somebody asked me yesterday what my kids would say about being raised in open adoption. And the answer I gave was that I think they don't think about it a lot. They are, they are shocked when they think about, when I tell them how it used to be and people didn't even know they were adopted sometimes and they were kept from knowing the names of their birth parents and they couldn't get an original birth certificate. Still that still happens in many States to say that that still happens. Yeah. Yeah. My kids think that that sounds really stupid. Like having your heads in the sand and so they, but they don't, they aren't RA RA about open adoption. It's just what they know. And I think that's kind of a Testament to open adoption is because you know, it's become a neutral issue for them.[inaudible] not knowing is not a a burning desire that they, you know, some people are going to have, some adoptees are going to have that and that's, I think you're exactly right. Those who are raised in openness, I mean it's just their norm so it's not a, well, yeah, I know why Susie and wasn't able to parent me. You know, she's told me, you know, I know. Or even if I don't know, I know I could ask her and even if we don't have direct contact, I know how I can get to her and ask her, but we'll, we'll circle around to different ways that open adoption can look in
Speaker 2:just a moment. First I want to remind people that this show is underwritten by jockey being family foundation. Their mission is to strengthen adoptive families through post adoption services. In one way they support adoptive families is through their free backpack program, which provides newly adoptive kids with their own backpack, personalized with their own initials and filled with a jockey being family stuffed bear, a soft, cuddly blanket and a tote bag for their parents. And in the tote bag, it has parenting resources to help you be the best parents you can be. So if you are a newly adopted family, this is a free resource for you and it's a free resource for your agency. So let your agency know about it and ask them to sign up for the program by going to the jockey being family.com website.
Speaker 4:All right, so let's talk about some of the, we had this idea our guests oppose. This is also a preconceived idea is that openness means that you're having Sunday dinner together, that they are coming, dropping by your house, you're seeing them constantly and you have never had any privacy. They are basically, you know, they're, they're a constant presence in your life. Now while that can absolutely be true, and I know families who have,
Speaker 3:well perhaps not a constant presence, but for pretty frequent contact. I know a family that has their, one of their children's birth mom is one of their favorite babysitters. So because they have already babysitter, they use her quite a bit. Uh, so she's pretty frequent in their lives. But, uh, let's talk about the different ways that openness can look.
Speaker 4:And this is where I'm going to go to your slightly annoying grandmother rule even though that's not exactly what we're talking about. But um, this is going to be a relationship like lots of other relationships that people have. And so, you know, if your sister-in-law is coming out and you have having for dinner every day and showing up at your door without calling and, and your mother-in-law is, you know, you have no boundaries with your mother in law, no expectations, then yeah, you might also have this with or a family members. But if you are already figuring out how to negotiate relationships through in-laws or extended family, then you're going to be able to negotiate relationships with birth family too.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Let's take a moment and I'll explain the slightly annoying grandmother rule. The slightly annoying grandmother rule says that you handle situations that arise and they will arise and open adoption with your child's birth parents the same way you would have handled them if it was something that your slightly annoying grandmother did. And the reason we chose the grandmother role was that it's a person who has importance in your life. I really wanted to call it slightly annoying aunt Francis rule because that's how it would be in my family. However, my aunt Francis is not slightly annoying. She's extremely annoying and I constantly challenge whether or not she is she has ever, she definitely has a place in our life if for, if for no other reason that she is my mother sister, but a a grandparent. I think we all agree is that relationship has value. It doesn't mean it's perfect and it doesn't mean that grandma doesn't just bug the ever loving to sometimes because she does, but it means that you value that relationship and you're not willing to cut her out of your life. So you figure a way around him. And if grandma is showing up at your house unannounced, which is a fairly unrealistic cause, I really don't know when open adoption, if that happens very often at all. But let's just say that, uh, that that is your fear. Uh, how would you handle it if it was your grandmother showing up all the time? And there was a variety of ways you might do it. You might take a granny and sit her down and say how much you enjoy her company, but that you feel that you need to have more time alone or that you know, when she shows up, you can't get other stuff done and as much as you enjoy it, could you schedule a time and Hey, let's get it on a calendar. That might be one way you do it. You know, there's just any number of ways you may have somebody else talk to granny. There's just a whole number of ways that you might handle it, but you would do it in a way that preserves the relationship and preserves the dignity of the people involved. And that's hence the slightly annoying grandmother role.
Speaker 4:Excellent. I love that. I quoted a lot.
Speaker 3:Feel free. So let's go back and talk about the different ways that openness can look. Now. One way we've been discussing, which is totally open. You see each other, you may schedule twice a year visits. You may, uh, if you live nearby, you may, you know, pop over once a month or you may meet at the park or, uh, if the other about a state, it may be less frequent, but you, um, not infrequently text you may visit, you know, you know each other well. So that's one way we've kind of been talking about that way. What are some other ways that openness can look and still be considered openness but not be
Speaker 4:quite that open? So it sounds like you're talking about contact, just different ways to have contact with child's birth family. Is that, is that what you're talking about?
Speaker 3:Sure. And ultimately getting to the idea that openness is an attitude and a spirit and less, it's less important, but, but the distinction between the attitude of openness and contact and all of that is,
Speaker 4:let's talk about that. Yeah. It came to me once that that contact is an imperfect measure to use and we figure out how we want to do this and how well we're doing. And we were meeting our goals because of exactly what you just said. We don't really know if we're talking about the quantity of contact or the type of contact or the quality of contact. So I added a different, a second measure and that's just openness. So instead of a, just a spectrum along the East West axis where you can either have contact or not, I added my North South access with openness and openness really means what are you doing inside yourself? How aware are you of your own issues that are going on in any moment? And then how, how well can you tune in on your child and other people including birth family members. So if you think about it this way and we have a grid, then box one would be the the closed adoption grid where there's no contact and also no openness. And people know what that looks like. Box two would be one of the boxes. I think you're talking about where you have contact, but the openness piece isn't really there. You're having the contact, but you're not really okay with dealing with hard things. And when your child's wondering something. So I call that like the obligatory box. I'm checking off my to do list of what I said I would do if we flip that around and we take away the contact, but add in the openness, we would be in box three and the reasons you might take away contact would be perhaps in an international doc adoption where birth family is not known or available perhaps in a foster adoption where contact is not safe. Perhaps in a domestic open adoption where birth parents have made themselves unavailable or perhaps in a domestic open adoption where the adoptee at a certain age says, you know what, I really don't want to see them right now. So there's no contact. But in this box, the parents are still continually monitoring their own feelings about things, continually trying to build a connection and being in tune with their child. And so even if in the absence of contact right here, there are lots of things we can do to have openness. And then box four where you have contact and openness that would look a lot like extended family members, like in-laws, grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins that you have the contact, you have dinner and you know, family dinners with them or holiday dinners and you negotiate how to deal with people who maybe you wouldn't choose to have in your family but they're in your family. So you do it
Speaker 3:and their, their relationship in your family is important. So you do it because that's what you're supposed to do. But uh, let's go to that box three and talk about that some which is lack of contact and it can be from, and I was glad you pointed it out. It can be from the adopting themselves. It can be from, although I think we have to be careful there because we, we certainly don't want to there it's tempting as parents to want to use saying it's too confusing for the child or are, it's not good for the child. But that is in fact sometimes the case or it certainly sometimes the case where particularly as children reach developmental stages where they need a break from it. And so the adoptive person, the adopted child might choose it, but the, uh, adopt the birth parents might choose it, it might just be too painful. Right? Or they may, you know, be wanting to take a, um, you know, uh, take a job in Europe and simply are not going to be able to not be physically around or did, they can also not be emotionally able to do it. Would you also include in this box birth parents that might be struggling with addiction and, um, and are not emotionally or even sometimes physically able to be present? Absolutely.
Speaker 4:I mean, there's a discernment process that adoptive parents have to go through on a continual basis to say, is this safe for my child? Is this good for my child right now? Sometimes whenever the answer can be, yes, we should have yeses, but if it's not, we can't. I mean safety has to come first if there are issues like that going on.
Speaker 3:Okay. What are your thoughts on, there are certainly adoption agencies who talk about openness, but what how they define openness is that there are once a year or maybe twice a year, letters and pictures exchanged via the agency itself. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 4:Well, I think that's going to be less than helpful to the child because it doesn't really embrace the spirit of openness you might be getting by with the letter of the law on those kinds of things. But it sounds to me like agencies who are talking that way are not
Speaker 3:doing the deeper work around this is the relationship. This is not just a transaction.[inaudible] and I think, I think
Speaker 4:we need to take the longer view when we're, when we're entering into family building, whether that's a marriage or an adoption.
Speaker 3:Okay. And there, and, and, and if you're working with an agency, you might talk to them about if you and the birth parents choose something different, is that going to be a problem as you, as you progress forward in the adoption, they've, both of those units say, you know, we want to go our own way. And generally that's something that you, you have the obviously the right to do a common problem that we hear from, uh, adoptive parents who are just beginning and they're starting off in their learning about openness and they're trying to be, you know, get their heads wrapped around it and they're thinking about it. And then they talk with their parents or their sister or their brother or somebody in their extended family who is like, Oh my gosh, why would you do that? And we go back to the preconceived ideas and the myths we talked about at the beginning. And you're going to be competing in, you're never going to be able to compete with their real mom or that's going to be so confusing to that child. Why would you do that to that child and why are you opening yourself? You know, parenting's hard enough. Why are you opening yourself up to all this mess and complexity? It's just, you know, why do that? So what are some suggestions for people who they want to be open to the idea of openness? Pardon? The redundancy there. But they, when they get around their extended family, they th their confidence is shaken.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And this is such a great example of what I was talking about earlier, that everyone knows about adoption because everyone thinks they know because they've seen hallmark movies and they've read people magazine and, but there's what they know comes from quarter, half century ago of misguided policies based on the idea that babies wouldn't know that everybody could just forget this big thing happened and when that turned out to be wrong, that didn't get broadcast. You know, everybody doesn't know that. So I think that this is such a great opportunity for people with the intention to be open to openness, to be resolute in their inner knowing and negotiate those family relationships with good boundaries and to say, I know that you think this, but my research is showing something different and to be able to still be in a directed, even with pressure from the outside, cause that, that kind of, um, that kind of negotiation is what we sometimes have to do when we're navigating birth family relationships too. So if we can do it with our family of origin, which is also emotionally charged, that's good practice for doing it with our child's family of origin.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah. Good point. And we were talking about messiness and complexity. Yes. Let's not forget that in fact our biological families are, let me just speak for myself, my biological family as its own messiness and that a yes. So exactly. And there are some books that are available that we list on our site for sharing with your extended family members. So go to creating a family.org and click on books and we have a specific books for you to share with your extended family if they're willing to learn more and learn with you. And that's one way to handle this. And to invite them to learn more and to walk this journey with you.
Speaker 4:It is a, it's, it's an education piece that there's a section in my book on, Oh, so now you're an ambassador for open adoption because you're bringing this new idea to people and you're trying to help them understand what it is. So you become an educator about it, which means that you've, you're doing a lot of learning about it too. So that's all good.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is good. But you know, it's, if you're just at the beginning, becoming an ambassador is scary because your resolve is not from, you know, you're learning. And then when somebody says, Oh man, you're going to be screwing your kids up royally and then you're shaking. Uh, so it's hard to be an ambassador for something that you're just now learning about.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. You're right about that. But at the same time, those other people don't have, unless they actually do have direct experience with it, they're probably just, you know, relaying what everyone knows about the closed adoption construct, which didn't work so well
Speaker 3:or what they think they know. And so what hasn't, what hasn't necessarily, which is this is where you're saying what hasn't permeated the media is, you know, going past the hallmark movie. And that is the, the discomfort that some adopted people feel with figuring out who they are, the desire to search and learn more. But the complexities of searching as an adult and meeting somebody for the first time when you're 18, 25, 35, 45 or whatever, who you have a biological connection with in the pain that that causes. And as we listened to adopt it, people talk about the experience we need to grow the institution of adoption to fit the reality that has been their life. And unfortunately that's not picked up in the hallmark movies, you know, or the common, the zeitgeists says it surrounds adoption. So what you, it helps to know that, that the people who are sharing what they think they know really have or don't only have part of the picture, they haven't, they have not heard the whole[inaudible] exactly. Another thing that, uh, people at the very beginning will often, and this is a hard one, they will be told or most likely will be told by their adoption agency or adoption attorney that the vast majority of adoptions now have some degree of openness. And therefore if you don't want to wait forever, you need to agree to some form of openness. So they say, sure, I'll do it. You know, because at this point get me a any baby, the fastest baby you can get me. And so they approach openness from the standpoint of I don't really have a choice if I'm going to adopt, if I'm going to adopt a baby anyway, I've got to choose. I've got to agree to openness. Let's talk about that feeling like you're up against a wall and having this is the only choice you have.
Speaker 4:And I think it's so important to be aware of what you're actually feeling about things. Because if you're just, if it's a means to an end for you, there will be probably some sort of come up fence at some point as there would be any time you're short-cutting getting what you want at the expense of something else of some another person or your own ethics or anything like that. So I think if you're going to embrace open adoption, it needs to be because you're really embracing open adoption for the good of your child, yourself, your whole family, not just to get what you want. It's not going to turn out well when you do the means to an end thing
Speaker 3:and in some ways not any, well in many ways it's not fair to the expected parents who are choosing their adoptive family based on their assumption that that what you say about your agreement for openness is what you are going to do. I think it also leads to people more quickly throwing in the towel the first time it gets messy and as you and I have both noted it will get messy and the first time it does then it's the, okay, this is not in the best interest of my child. We're going to stop it and then you have to really think about someone who has made a choice, a lifetime choice based on one thing and then you're changing your mind after you've already promised or at least visibly it made agreements to have some degree of openness
Speaker 4:and there are stories out there, I'm sure you've read them. I have to have birth parents who are promised one thing and then as soon as the papers are signed or maybe even a year later or something, it all changes and it is so heartbreaking and devastating for them. And then that makes, um, trust and contact with the child in later years. A lot more difficult to navigate. So, I mean, I, I just think the golden rule would be a really good follow here is, uh, if you were in the other position, you know, act how you would want to be treated
Speaker 3:and also know that your child undoubtedly will be hearing the other side of the story when they are older. And how are you, how are you going to look into how that story is told? And I will just say that, that yes, we definitely hear of people who just callously say, okay, now that the papers are signed, I don't have to do anything and I won't. But I think what I hear more often, and it may just be from where I sit by especially running large support groups where it isn't as socially acceptable to admit that that's what you're really doing. So it's possible that I'm just hearing a, a sanitized version of it. But what I hear more often is people using small excuses and they may not feel small, but using any excuse to not work through the relationship and abandoning the relationship because it's gotten hard and what they agreed to in their mind wasn't going to be hard.
Speaker 4:That's an excellent point. And that goes back to that openness that I talk about is that continual checking in to make sure that your discernment is coming from the actual situation and not from your own wounds, triggers landmines. That takes a lot of self awareness to do. And I also wanted to say when you talked about, um, one day having to kind of account for your, with your child about your, what you're doing. I think that's one way to maintain this openness is if you ever find yourself wanting to do something and in hiding or in the dark or keep people from knowing about it, particularly your child, that's an indication that this needs some more examination. Cause anything that's done out of shame or anything that's done in the dark, there's something going on that needs to be looked at and maybe brought into the light including the, you know, it's closed adoption era. Everything was about shame.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Or if it's um, the difference between privacy, secrecy and shame is a fine line there. Exactly. And the reality is that for any child coming of age now, if they want to know who their birth family is, they will be able to find out. And it's just a mess there. The idea of closed adoptions or truly being closed is a total myth and it's what people have to realize is that genetic testing, the over the counter genetic testing is not just the people themselves that have to, you know, spit in the tube or do the test. Any person in their family even, you know, many times removed. Once they do it then it's in the in. If they agree to having it in the database with most people do, it's going to be available for your child to find out so your child will eventually, if they choose and many do, we'll have this information.
Speaker 4:That is such an excellent point in a way that the world is different now from when you and I started out on this journey is that exactly the level of connectivity in our world right now with the internet and with DNA databases. You're right, there is no such thing as close adoption. Our children at some point are going to be able to get their hands on information and at that point they're going to be saying, where are my parents upfront with me? Or where they trying to keep things from me and then that's part of that come up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that they're going to hear the story and it's going to be from a different side and so yeah, it's a good point. Think in terms of that as you are, as you're making your decisions, let me remind people that this show as well as everything we do here at creating a family
Speaker 2:couldn't happen without our partners and our partners or agencies who believe in our mission of providing a pre and post adoption education and support and they go past the part of just giving it lip service. They're willing to support us with their money and their and that's vital. We are a nonprofit and we can't exist without them. Two of our great partners are children's connection. They're an adoption agency providing services for domestic infant adoption as well as embryo donation and adoption throughout the U S they also do home studies and post-adoption support the families in Texas and we have Vista Del Mar. They are a licensed nonprofit adoption agency with over 65 years of experience helping to create families. They offer home study only services as well as full service infant adoption international and then foster to adopt programs and you can get more information about them at their website. Vista Del mar.org all right.
Speaker 3:Let's talk about some ways, some concrete ways that you might be able to honor the spirit of openness. If for whatever reason, and we've talked about that, it can be reasons from the adoptive person, the birth family or the adopted family for whatever reason, that contact itself is not an option. What are some ways that we can keep the spirit of openness
Speaker 4:when the child's a baby? It's kind of hard to imagine their whole life journey over which we're kind of turning over the reins of their story to them. But I think one of the things would be to allow their curiosity and follow their curiosity as it arises and to be very mindful of anytime that we might want to squash that or ignore that or turn away from it because it might be hard for us. So, um, it's really, uh, a sense of mindfulness and what's going on with us as things happen.
Speaker 3:Yeah, very good point to keep the conversation alive and so that our children know that we're not fragile and that we are open to having these discussions. So that is certainly one, you know, a, another thing that I think is that we can utilize technology to help with this. If for whatever reason the birth family is not in a healthy place to be around or they're incarcerated or they're, you know, they've taken a job with NATO and they're in Brussels or wherever. And so the contact itself is not possible. We can use technology. I know that families have set up closed Facebook groups where they can share pictures, they can go on as one mom said, you know, the beauty is I can brag constantly and this is the only people around who are not going to be annoyed, you know, who are just as interested in the minute details of the my child getting a, you know, a B plus on their math test. Whereas I can't really post that anywhere else. And you can pictures
Speaker 4:that way and when your child gets older they can go in and communicate that way. So you can certainly use a closed Facebook group which allows a certain degree of, allows everyone to come and handle it on the level that they're ready for it. So that's another idea that, um, that I've, we've certainly seen families be able to, to utilize. Any other ideas like that that you've heard of people doing? Yeah, maybe even, I've heard of people like writing letters once a year to a birth parent, even if that person isn't known or available and maybe including pictures and just kind of keeping a scrapbook of that for perhaps one day when that person is available or just to have a running record of we included your birth family in our thoughts on a continual basis. We have not forgotten. We are honoring[inaudible]. Yeah, that's a great idea. And you can send, I suppose you could just keep the letters, but you could also send them to your agency and ask that the agency keep them on file for if either the birth parents ever come back. Yeah, because part of that exercise is doing it for the birth family, but part of it is doing it for the child too. Yeah. Very good point. Yeah, that's such a good point. Let's extend the idea of openness to now two extended birth family and birth siblings. I think that when we think of openness so often what we're thinking of is birth mom and birth dad, but how does openness look with birth extended family members? I'm so glad you brought this up. I think that people, I find so many adoptive parents who really, really want to have that connection to the birth family for their child, and then if birth parents aren't available, they have to kind of get creative about it. And the ways to do that would be to stretch out from exactly what you were saying, not just the birth parents, but birth grandparents, siblings, birth aunts and uncles, and that can satisfy that need for biological connection, for genetic mirroring, for just gathering one's pieces in identity formation. All of those things can be met in a more broad way than just that limited. These are my genetic parents. I have a whole bunch of people that I might be genetically connected to who, who can we find who can, who can be safe and present for us and answer questions and be part of your child's network. You know, their their village that loves them. You know that. That's so, yeah. Who can we find, and I will also say that very often children have a greater interest in their birth siblings. Let's say that their birth dad had a child, a half sibling before them or their birth mom has a baby after and she chooses to parent that baby or sometimes birth mom and birth dad. So it's a full sibling and children are often fascinated by and wanting to know their more information about their siblings. Have you seen that as well? Absolutely. And you're making me smile because I couldn't remember times when my, my two children would compete with each other about who had more siblings between their birth moms and their birth dads and, and they would have like a contest. But you know, that aside, those birth sibling relationships can be super powerful to a child to um, they can be hard to navigate too. I'll say that too because knowing that your birth mother or birth father raised somebody and didn't raise you, that could bring up some feelings and feelings aren't bad and we just have to kind of be able to let them have their way out for a little while. But it can be complex. Yeah. Yeah. Can you talk a little more about some of the complexities that, and the one that you're raising is as, I think you're right, one of the harder ones and that is your birth parents chose to place you but they are raising either individually or jointly another child. So there is the feeling of a potentially an extra feeling of rejection. Right. And in open adoption that means that the child gets to see that other yard. Then you know the grass growing over in that other yard, but they don't get to play in it other than once in a while if you have that kind of contact, it can bring up feelings. However those feelings then can be brought up and dealt with by the birth parent. Exactly. The person who made the choice yeah. Can help you explain it to your child. Right. And the, they're the real source of the information. They know what was different in their life. Exactly. Cause when we're left his adoptive parents to answer all those questions, we're guessing on behalf of other people. But this way we can get it right from the source[inaudible] and together the two birth mothers or whatever, not the two. The two mothers can figure out how to best help the child understand and contextualize it based on where the child is in their own development.[inaudible]. Excellent. Well Lori, do you have any final parting thoughts on open adoption that you'd want to share with people who are just beginning the journey into adoption and may will be afraid of the concept? I would like to tell you that for considering this you are brave and courageous and that means that you are heart oriented already. Courage comes from the heart and don't let myths and preconceptions deter you from doing what is going to lead you to a life of vibrancy and connection with a child because it, this is such a rich way to go through parenting. A perfect Coda there. Uh, thank you Laurie Holden. Lori is the author of the openhearted way to open adoption and you can get more information and follow her blog@lavenderloos.com
Speaker 2:let me remind you that the views expressed in this show are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of creating a family, our partners, our underwriters, and keep in mind that the information given in this interview is general advice to understand how it applies to your specific situation. You need to work with your adoption professional. Thank you for joining us today and I will see you next week.