Austin All Day
Austin All Day
Aviary Wine & Kitchen - Alex Bell (Ep.201)
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https://www.aviarywinekitchen.com/
Recorded at Austin All Day Studio follow @austinalldaypodcast
Pardon? Garçon? Garcon? Right. Um, and it it made me just love dining. You know, that was where we sat as a family and just shared. There's nothing better, right? No. There's nothing better than sitting down with a collection of people and eating food and laughing and like the best stories come out, the most in-depth conversations, the deepest of shares, and the highest of highs and lowest of lows coming across a table in which you're breaking bread and and raising glass. I have a no-off limits kind of lifestyle. So anything you want to rap about, we can get right after, and we'll have a good time.
SPEAKER_01Well, sweet man. I'm happy to have you on. Like I said, I feel this is overdue. And it's also been a hotbed for Little Hiatus with the Austin All Day podcast, and I feel that this is a great way to fire it back up.
SPEAKER_00Dude, I am here for that. And like honestly, puberty, congratulations. You look solid, my friend, for going through uh a child all the way through puberty and then dealing with that. And are we talking boy girl boy puberty or girl puberty?
SPEAKER_01Girl, girl.
SPEAKER_00Ooh.
SPEAKER_01Pitching in puberty simultaneously, but uh, I'll tell you, man, we have fun. We had fun. I bet. Yeah, she's all-stars, softball, good stuff, just out there every day, killing it.
SPEAKER_00So how's the relationship with mom? I feel like that's where it gets nasty during puberty is like, fuck you, mom.
SPEAKER_01She's pretty cool so far.
SPEAKER_00Hell yeah. Well, I mean, that's a testament to how y'all have raised her, so kudos. Well, I appreciate that, man. You got it.
SPEAKER_01You, um, from my read, without ever having met you so far, are like, sure, we could go wine guy, but like you're you're the guy to go to for things. I feel like.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm uh, you know, I like to think of myself as a as a Mr. Wolf, you know. Like, call me and I can I can get it fixed. Um I've been in the Austin culinary community now, wow, 12 years. Uh moved here from Philadelphia. Uh, just needed a change, but I'm I'm Texas blood.
SPEAKER_01So from Philly, huh?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Philly boy. Yeah, good stuff out there, good music out there. Great music, go birds, you know. It's a beautiful situation. I grew up going to the Dr. Dog house in college and party with those fools many a time, and still deeply connected to a large contingency of the Philadelphia community. And that's where I really carved out my uh niche in in finding myself in restaurants. Sure, sure.
SPEAKER_01Okay, so originally though, you are from Texas.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I was born in Dallas, actually. Um, on my dad's side, if I ever were so interested in the fraternal order, I could be a sons of the brothers of Texas, which is uh my family's been here, can trace the bloodline since before 1850.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's similar to uh J and L Ben. He's eighth generation, you know. So about that, does that sound right? Eighth generations?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, give or take. I mean, my math is one of my weaker suits. But yeah, I mean, I'd say same here, same age. It's been it's been about eight, and uh yeah, I was born in Dallas and raised there till I was about nine or ten. Uh my parents got split when I was like two or three. Yeah, yeah. Um, a necessary split, a better split. But uh mom went straight into the workforce, and Dallas in the 90s was not a space for women trying to blaze a trail in business, and she worked in pharmaceuticals, so she had been consistently passed up for job opportunities that she was well deserving of and wound up getting a call from a fellow colleague who left for discriminatory factors as well. Merck was headhunting in the northeast, and my mom's a northeastern seaboard baby, so she was like, Boys, I think we're gonna make a change. Okay, and so we uh we took it up to the suburbs of Philadelphia just outside like Valley Forge.
SPEAKER_01So that's how that came to be.
SPEAKER_00Yep. And then I did my time in the burbs before I was like, you know, I gotta get in the city. So I went down and I'm a temple grad. I was proud, you know. Um, did that whole movement, which was really wonderful and and really, you know, uh a beautiful slice of life to not only get educated in in a collegiate level, but also get educated in a city level, you know. You learn to walk the streets in Philly, you can walk streets in any place of this world. Yeah, that is a city that will mess with you. Well, there's some advice right there. I mean, you know, nuggets of wisdom. They will sneak out like colonels of popcorn, I promise that.
SPEAKER_01That's that's funny. So what drew you into uh the culinary world? Like I mean, I mean, was it just those were the people you got in there?
SPEAKER_00Uh I guess it was that like, you know, as a young kid, man, I I needed a job. I decided like I wanted to work, I wanted to have my own my own income. I wanted to have something I could spend money on that I didn't have to answer to anybody or explain what that money was gonna go to.
SPEAKER_01It's the best money.
SPEAKER_00It is, it is. It's it's free money. Um, but you gotta work for it. So I uh Nugget of Wisdom.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's gonna clip these up, man.
SPEAKER_00Go ahead. Just chop, chop, chop, chop. Um, but I I started in uh in a very pedantic way at Annie Ann's pretzels um in the King of Prussian mall.
SPEAKER_01Man, that is high fructose heaven, right?
SPEAKER_00It is, and the tub of butter. Like you've never seen any sexier than like a tub of butter melted in a microwave before dipping a pretzel in.
SPEAKER_01So good.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's heavenly. Like whatever they do in it, whether it's MSG or it's a little bit of crack and meth, like people keep coming back.
SPEAKER_01It's probably like a combination of all three.
SPEAKER_00It's a three musketeer butter. Three musketeer butter.
SPEAKER_01We have the perfect like little ratio set up here.
SPEAKER_00Dude, most definitely. And so uh I obviously did not stay very long. And then my first job ever was um in the corporate game. And I do believe like when you go into the restaurant world and you're getting your your feet kind of in the water, it's always best to start in corporate restaurants. There's a reason that big restaurant groups are so large. That's yes. They know how to streamline ops, they know how to make like very repeatable and structured levels of both service and execution.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it gave me guidelines. You know, I had a really great manager that was just like the principles of hospitality, how you make people feel good about themselves while also nourishing them at the same time, even if the food had no nourishment in it whatsoever.
SPEAKER_01Uh you know, that's very interesting little point there. Because I think it's very open for a lot of younger people to get a job in like like Annie Ann's or McDonald's or wherever, and there's the benefit right there that I never really thought about.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, because I mean there's there's a there's a training procedure. So from day one, you're set up for success because they've had to do this at so many locations so many times. And like a longhorn is a perfect example. I mean, I had kids my age working alongside of me, and then I had dads of kids I was going to middle school with working alongside of me. Sure. So it was like a space where everyone who'd like partied too hard in their youth and were just kind of like finding a way to sustain, all the way down to those that just wanted to have spare cash to get into mischief with. So having all of that and then learning like, oh, this is how we pick up food, this is how you run, this is table manners, this is bedside manner. Like we always greet a table with uh a spiel, but the spiel make it your own, you know, imbue you into it, like create that connectivity. And I started as a bus boy, then they promoted me to host because they're like, we're wasting it. Then the host situation, they're like, We're gonna let you serve. And I was like, Well, I'm not 18. They're like, we're gonna find a way around that. So all my booze had to be picked up by somebody else. And there's always a way. Yeah, I mean, it was it took uh, I think within the first three months, I was um top sales, and so they were like, No kidding, what the hell is this 16-year-old kid doing, like putting the highest numbers on the board when he can't even run his own, like, you know, mango marg? It was just I I knew how to sell a lucky strip. I knew how to make sure that an appetizer went down every table. I always hit them with dessert before they even thought that they were full. It was just little pieces, upselling, engagement, knowing where your product comes from.
SPEAKER_01Are you thinking like this at that age?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I got taught to think like that, you know. It was like, do you want to leave the money on the table? Because that extra $3, $6, $18 on that check adds that much percentage. That percentage goes directly in your pocket and what you do in your pocket, free money. Right, you know? And I, you know, I had weed to smoke, I had things to do. Like, so I wanted to make sure I had those finances all fit into space. And and so I dove right in. And then it also gave me as I moved on to more of like a boutique or an elevated kind of style of service. I knew certain mechanics that were pivotal to success, but then how to performatively raise the bar and make the pedigree that much more um perfected.
SPEAKER_01I like that. I like that. That's yes. So you've taken all this knowledge from where you've been and you have discovered wine.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, the first time science made sense, my friend, was fermentation. Okay. Is that the is this another clip? Sure, yeah. I mean, like it it was it was that uh I never really found science to benefit me all that much in regards to like my understanding and my appreciation of it. It was a means to an end to keep the GPA up, but um it was when, you know, the first time I started delving into the worlds of fermentables, and truly I started in craft beer. Kraft beer was like my passion. Wine was a means to pad the check.
SPEAKER_01Well, well, so how do we get there? Um when do we I mean you're getting your weed. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then suddenly it's not lone stars that are so good. It's like you discover something with some hops in it or what?
SPEAKER_00Like Yeah, I mean, so Philadelphia, for those that don't know, like Philadelphia is a beer city. I mean, it's the number one at one point it was a number one beer consuming city, hands down. And then on top of it. Yeah, no, I mean, we have Monks Cafe. Monks Cafe is named after Monks Brewing, which is, you know, the Flemish sour that teaches most people what a barrel-aged Flemish sour red is actually supposed to taste like. And so Tom Peters from Philadelphia was like this pioneer in the movement of Belgian uh wild fermented, spontaneous fermented sours. And he did so much legwork in pushing wild fermented and you know, the classical Abbey style ales across Belgium into the American forefront that he wound up getting the only monks that exist outside of Belgium able to be opened in Philadelphia. So I had all this dope beer around, but like again, it was it was the start of college was just like, you know, I'm a freshman, I'm in the I'm in the fantastically beautiful but hard streets of Philly. And I'm, you know, I'm doing what I'm supposed to do. I'm going to the stab and grabs, I'm, I'm buying 40s, I'm drinking OE, I'm drinking St. Ides, I'm ripping down a little Colt.
SPEAKER_01And uh I would say the shift.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, dude. I mean, I have I have a veritable secret talent of I will school most people in Edward 40 hands, but um it was when I got a friend started bringing over because he had started working at like an elevated kind of like bar that had really great craft beer as the craft beer movement started, you know, long beyond Ken Grossman and Sierra Nevada launching things, but like when Trogues and Yards and Victory were like really making a name for themselves in the Philadelphia community, and he started bringing some around, and I just was blown away at the flavor. I was like, this is so flavorful that it stops me from chugging it. It starts me to appreciate it. And then historically, on top of that, I started seeing like, wow, okay, not only are we creating, you know, these amazing fermented iterations, but I don't feel the same way I did after drinking 40 ounces of my liquor.
SPEAKER_01Interesting.
SPEAKER_00You know? Yeah. Um, and so that started, but it was uh it was junior year. I was a huge beerhead. Um, I sold wine only to elevate my check average. And most of the time I would just memorize wines based off like, okay, uh, what's my 75 plus dollar bottle I go to? Like my five-card deck, right? My 75 plus dollar bottle, my hundred plus dollar bottle, my 200 plus dollar bottle, and then my big jump, my 500 plus dollar bottle, and then my thousand plus dollar bottle. You were an ASIN though in the front of the house. I I've always been very, very much like your go-to guy for floor service. I I find uh, you know, king of the living room energies. I just get on the floor and I settle right into everyone. And I, whether you're you're reading a bad day, you're reading a beautiful day, you're celebrating your morning, you're on a first date, you're on an anniversary, you're on a proposal, like getting to know what the importance, even if there's none but a good time, to be inside that restaurant, how do I pull that out of you? And then how do I make sure that performatively you get to walk away feeling not only full, but also just like feverishly excited for what just happened.
SPEAKER_01So you think so always you think that was in you? The that kind of like in your it ingrained in your personality per se to go in there. I mean, you were taught to sell, right, and then you obviously enjoyed it, but like there's an enthusiasm, which I knew was coming. I did. I just knew we haven't met, I knew it was coming, and it's great and it's infectious and and contagious, but uh in your youth, was this was that there? What were you?
SPEAKER_00I mean, I've always been like the guy that if there's a camera on like put in front of me, you know. I I had aspirations in my youth to be an actor. Um did you? Yeah, I mean, if you look in Transformers 2 in one small scene, you see Alex Bell tied away up in this little corridor. No joke, I'm just right there on UPenn's campus, just before the Decepticons descend upon Shia LaBouffe.
SPEAKER_02That's great.
SPEAKER_00Um, but yeah, I mean, like I always wanted to be an actor. I love the art of like, you know, presentation. I I used to perform as a child for my mom and all her friends, just trying to get their attention so I could like be the main focus. And so all of that, you know, the floor is to me a stage, man. You know, you get out there, you're entertaining an audience. They might not all be sitting together, but you're in front of you're doing the right amount of covers. You're in front of 60 people a night. And it's almost like stand-up. Like, you gotta be ready to like fire quips, like make clever jokes, no anecdotes about like uh a producer of wine or a brewer or a beer, or like then bring your own anecdote to it's like, oh, the first time I had this beer, I gotta tell you, I was on a first date, nervous as I'll get, sweaty palms, clammed up, and I just needed something to go smooth and go solely. And I also wanted to show confidence, so I ordered this beer and kicked back. And once I had that beer and she kind of gave me that different wink in the eye, I was like, All right, I'll take I'll take one. Yeah, I'll have one.
SPEAKER_01Let's begin this date. Yeah, yeah. That um hell yeah. No, you've yeah, that's very good. I mean, you have uh such an interesting way of looking at that that I think is unique because think how many people get like you know, they get they they they close up right in in front of a group of people. I could probably throw you on a stage right now and you just be like, let's go. Yeah, 100%. And like, I mean which is rare because they they do this whole like public speaking thing and all this, but like having good energy, being confident, and just enjoying it. That's yeah, that's this that's a headspace to have. I love it.
SPEAKER_00It was crazy, man. Like I took public speaking in in high school and I remember what's this? What are you doing? Yeah, like I was like, public speaking? Like, what you mean just like you want to put me in front of people? All right, like turn the dial to thrive and like watch me just like glow. So um, yeah, I mean I I just think it's there and and I do. I I mean I know so many people tell me that like that the the fact you don't get anxiety or you don't have this like intensity or fear, like this crippling. No, I mean like I get anxiety like a normal person when the world's just closing in.
SPEAKER_01To say that after we established all this, and then it's like like a normal person. Like, I mean, there are people who are sure maybe comfortable in that space, but you've taken it to another level.
SPEAKER_00Oh, in that space, no, I never get anxiety in a service. Like I'll get I'll get jammed up and I'll get intense, but you know, that's that's just the Philly side of me, you know. It's like I just I go a little bit more street, I go a little bit more like aggro, but the guests never see it, you know. It's only my compadres in arms. They're the ones that face the swashbuckling.
SPEAKER_01That's that's funny. That's kind of how this podcast was like the origins were supposed to be give me the give me the dirt that goes on in the kitchen. I'll just go Austin all day. Let's just hear it. Yep. And it kind of didn't go in that direction. It's hard to tell secrets to the public in the public. That's it's like an Anthony Bourdain book. Like, just like let's just like I mean, just spew it out, you know.
SPEAKER_00And and I I think that he did uh obviously we all know he did wonders for our community. He made people feel confident that we could admit the truth of like how hard it is and that it's okay to know that it's hard. And like help shift society and thinking that like we are merely servants, but we are celebratory agents, the ones that give you what you quest for and long for. And there's still people that treat you like you're, you know, you're the lap dog.
SPEAKER_01There always will be. They're they're just out there. I mean, I I feel like the the bear of that show, which uh I think there's a new season out. But uh like I don't even think that would exist without him. Like the it there's just such an evolution with what he did and where we are now.
SPEAKER_00No, I agree, dude. I I think that like, yeah, you're very right. Shows like the bear, our focus, our celebration of chefs as like, you know, major celebrities. I think Bourdain helped break the door down for that. I mean, you had like, you know, Jacques Pupin, and you had um, if I'm taking it back to Philly, you know, you had um LeBec Finn with Chef Georges Berrier. You had people like that that did so much. And of course, Martha, you know, um, not Martha Stewart, but the joy of cooking. Uh, why is she escaping me? She's a a legend in her own time before she passed. Oh, I'm gonna hate myself that I can't remember her name right now.
SPEAKER_01You're gonna have you can uh lit re-listen to this and and hate it more than that.
SPEAKER_00Oh, dude, I know, I know. Um, but yeah, I mean, like Julia Child. Okay, okay. So, you know, you had these players, but it was Bourdain that showed the gritty truth of it and was like, yeah, like I was I was fresh off a heroin bender going in and producing five cores pairing menus for the wealthiest people on the face of the planet. And I was crushing it.
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_00Dying while doing so, but my death in those moments gave rebirth to their experience of what dining could be. Sure.
SPEAKER_01And they're like, What? Seriously, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_00You you j you were strung out an hour before you did this? Like, what the hell? Yeah, I was in the alley sleeping with a needle between my toes, but I did it. No idea. Yeah. Um, so yeah, and then then the beard thing started, man, and that that kind of got me launched. But one of the amazing things, and mad props to Temple University for this, is they have an exceptionally accessible study abroad set up. So Temple has satellite campuses in a multitude of international areas. So there's Tokyo, there's London, and then in my case, there was Rome. Okay. And so my junior year of college, I went to Rome, and that just honestly changed who I am eternally. Nice. In every way, shape, and form. I was a picky eater. Like I wouldn't eat tomatoes. I ate salads raw, no dressing, because I didn't really like like moist lettuce. Okay. I I had a gag reflex. If I ate cooked spinach or broccoli, that I would like vomit on a table.
SPEAKER_01No shit.
SPEAKER_00No joke. Like I've ruined multiple family dinners because I was forced to eat like, you know, sauteed spinach and I tried to keep it down. Yep. Like take a little bit of everything. Right. And I just and then there it is. Still? Still? No. It's okay. It's gone. Italy changed everything. Okay. You know what gets you over fears of like food or any type of picky? Let me hear it. Stick yourself in a foreign culture that you do not speak the language with a real-world style setup of nine perfect strangers, but in my case, like 90 plus. And then try to figure out when you're out with these people and you're trying to make a good impression, you're trying to build a bond and you want to pull the waiter aside who doesn't speak much English and say, Is there any way I could have no onions, no tomatoes, extra olives? And could you make it buttered noodles rather than whatever that green sauce is you're gonna put on there?
SPEAKER_01That's where you were at.
SPEAKER_00I was, dude, I was there. No joke. It was like I could eat steak. I liked I liked really weird proteins. I loved duck, I loved rabbit, but I would not eat like greens, vegetables. Really? Nah, like it was like fuck off with that.
SPEAKER_01So so but there's a flavor profile out there that obviously got got caught you.
SPEAKER_03Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01I mean, it it it was just like it was forcing it down. So did you have to get acclimated to these flavors, or were you just instantly like, oh, wait a minute, hold on. I don't know what y'all are doing to this, but this is great.
SPEAKER_00Uh it took a it took a small acclimation, but it was so quick. Honestly, the way that Italians started preparing these vegetables, Italian food being such a conduit to cooking vegetables down so textures become nullified and married in this almost like temptations level harmony. It just like it started opening a lot of doors. And you know, at first I thought, well, you know, I'll navigate, I'll just eat a bunch of pizza and we'll be good. I'm in the land of pizza, we're fine.
SPEAKER_01I mean, I I might have thought that myself. Yeah. Even enjoying other foods.
SPEAKER_00I mean, you know, you always go back to the safety. But um, you know, first date out the bag, and she picks the restaurant and there's not pizza as an option. You're like, you better, you better show your stuff, my sir.
SPEAKER_01First date with an Italian lady?
SPEAKER_00Oh no, no. They'd have been fun. They don't care for us. I I did wound up with an Italian girlfriend at the end that was really rad, named uh Roberta Buffy. I don't know how, how I dated the only girl in Italy that's my dad's first name with an A at the end. So I'm dating Roberta. So I'm dating like my father's name, but then I can't even make a cute nickname for her because it's like Robbie. I'm like, that's my dad. And then there's Buffy, was her last name, and I don't really want to call a girl Buffy, even though she was a wonderful woman and an immense like eye-opener to the experiences of Italy, and like, you know, it was it was cool, but yeah, I did I did wind up with an Italian girlfriend at the end. That was that was a unique moment. Kudos to you. Thank you, thank you.
SPEAKER_01Doing us all justice here.
SPEAKER_00Just out here doing the Lord's work, my friend.
SPEAKER_01So the but wine was introduced to you during that time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um I mean, I'm sure you had had wine, right?
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. I mean, I'd gotten to drink exceptional bottles like at some of the spaces I'd worked at, like the dregs, you know, like tasting some really fun things. I was like, wow, that's that's delicious. But there was a shift that happened here. Well, wine is such an integral part of Italian culture. Whether it's uh a conduit with conversation and engagement and enhancement of a meal, all of these pieces of the puzzle are so tied into living a truly Italian experience that it started to be that, like, you know, yeah, you can get a Peroni or you can get a biramoretti, but like the reality is his wine's on the table. Whether it's a leader carafe that you drink till you get your fill and they just keep filling up, or you actually have a bottle list, you know, it got started and obvious we we wanted to go out all the time, but you know, we're a bunch of college kids. So I was living with um two dudes uh who are still good friends of mine. Um and we built this crazy crew of like eight of us to ten of us that all came together, um, and we were doing big family style dinners. Do you still go back occasionally? Uh I know. I've been I've been back uh with my partner, JC. We went back, I took her to Italy for the first time, but I let her pick, and crazy enough, she picked places I'd never been. So we did like Emilio Romagna focusing our time in Bologna, and then went down to the Amalfi coast and did um Amalfi Pasitano, um, which was wonderful and really like just refreshing to remember. And she was impressed. You know, I got back and the training wheels came back. Like I was like, wow, my Italian was pretty solid. I could have like casual conversations, I could navigate the subway or the trains, and and I just remembered why I love Italy so much.
SPEAKER_01How long were you there in the college?
SPEAKER_00Uh, like five and a half months, and then a two-month backpacking afterwards. Okay. Just exploring all of Europe because I'm there and like just throw a backpack on and see where the world's gonna direct you.
SPEAKER_01That's awesome, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It was sick, man. I mean, like, thumbed up a bunch of times and did some hitchhiking in some areas. I was fortunate enough to travel to Morocco because my dad had a contact there. So I stayed in uh I flew into Marrakesh and then wound up in Casablanca. Oh, reverse that flew into Casablanca, wound up in Marrakesh, had a place to stay in Marrakesh, went to the night markets, just like fell in love. But yeah, no, Italy was when like wine suddenly clicked, is like it makes sense. And it was also a moment in time where you know, I'm I'm freshly 21, I'm still sport drinking, you know, I'm I'm chasing like like blackout Alex and let's see what happens there and so forth. But um, my brother uh called me while I was there, actually, and uh he admitted to me he was gonna get sober. And uh it was not a a want and desire, it was a need, like very much so.
SPEAKER_01How old is your brother? Uh my brother is how old is he in relation to is he a younger brother?
SPEAKER_00Oh no, older. Uh so two years, three grades. I'm 28 or I'm 38. So my brother's my brother turned 40 this year. Or 41. I'm 30. Oh, shoot, damn. Yeah. I turned 39 this year. I lose track. I said numbers, man, math. But uh yeah, he called me and he um told me he was getting sober. And at first I responded very um vitraulically. It was a one of my more regretful moments in time that I was telling somebody that I love so deeply, like such horrific things. But he had taught me to drink. He'd introduced me to like, you know, alcohol and partying, and like he'd been my guide for a long time. And you were having fun. And I was having fun, I was having a play. No, it hit the point he wasn't anymore. And so it kind of restructured me also about like finding an appreciation for the artistry of alcohol for not just the chasing down the inebriation and the inhibition loosening, just like freedom run that getting fucked up can sometimes provide. Yeah, and that kind of made me also start like stopping when I tasted something and thinking about it and really putting intention into like, what am I tasting? What am I smelling? And that's part of wine culture is to stop and really smell the roses, you know, put your nose in that glass, close your eyes, where do you go? What do you feel? What do you see? Where are you transported? How do you, you know, in your mind's eye, how do you move around and what begins to blossom and bloom in front of you? You know, if you have a virtual reality that anything is possible when you close your eyes and you sniff in that glass, if it's suddenly a blooming field of just abundantly radiant lilacs while you're also eating a Granny Smith apple and at the same time can hear a stream rushing across river rock. So you get that mineral tone. You're like, oh, and is it sunny? Is it rainy? Is it like petricore dewy? Is it bright and almost feels as though everything's got a crispness to it, in which the air is just like lighter and more bright and and connective.
SPEAKER_01I'm editing in my head and chopping this shit up because that's a beautiful description. I just wonder how much your brother you could come to this place of how you're thinking and appreciating wine and taste and all this in in any fashion. But I wonder how much your brother calling you and saying this maybe had a role in that for you personally.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean it it it's you you gotta know, you know. Part of you, right? The power to get sober is one of the most impressive things humanly possible. Is he still good today? He is. Not like, I mean, we're talking 20 plus years. Just crushing. Also a chef, um, which I can dive into at another point. And worked fine dining. So, like the the the stuff that triggers most people to fall right back into demons, he he persevered. Wow. That that is incredibly impressive.
SPEAKER_01That's not an easy environment to navigate sober.
SPEAKER_00No, mad love, Kevin Bell. He's a fucking G. Um, and he figured it out. He's a private chef in Maui now. Like, talk about somebody who knows how to navigate life.
SPEAKER_02Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, but yeah, when he called, it was just like you have to know that, you know, alcoholism is not something that necessarily finds everybody. There's a lot of things that inherently might be built in to allow you to fall into those steps. And, you know, blood is one of them. You know, if you have any type of alcoholism in your family, there are certain hereditary factors that get passed along that allow you to be that much more viable to this to succumbing to the indulgences of alcohol, drugs, whatever. Addiction's a nasty little demon that follows family lines for eons and eons.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And it can be gnarly. It can. And when he called, you know, I had to take a reflection. He said something really impactful that he was like, you know, and I said, you know, I'm terrified that this is gonna be me. And he's like, Alex, you have to know you're not me. This is in you, just like it's in, you know, everyone that maybe we wind up bringing into this world later in life. But you also are still you, and you did not go through the same things I went through, you did not interact or get triggered by the same things I did. So know that you are not destined for my path, but you need to be cognizant of at the same time. And that started to structure in a little bit more of a reason for appreciation because I didn't want to leave alcohol because of all of the things that been in hand by it. No, I mean, I'm 21, dude. I was like, no, like I'm good. Like, I'm doing I'm looking at my friends, you know, I'm looking at my peer group and I'm still doing everything they're doing. So it's not an option.
SPEAKER_01Even if even if you it it occurred to you to be like, eh, we're going out.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like, oh God, I really don't want to think about that. Well, we can have some beers about it. Well, you want to have a bottle about it?
SPEAKER_01Oh, really? We can do that too. Well, he had that realization at such a young age, too. You know, and and then he's stuck with it. That is incredibly impressive. Yes.
SPEAKER_00It's it's bananas. I'm sorry. Yeah, I'm I'm I'm massively and forever uh in awe of this man.
SPEAKER_01How cool the yin and yang of you two as brothers, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that I'm a I'm literally a a booze pedler and aficionado, and he's uh, you know, sober and dry as a bone, but probably celebrates life harder than I ever will, even with a great glass of wine. So it's wild. But for sure. We love the dichotomy. And then, you know, my mom's got it made in the shade. She's got a culinary artisan on one side who cooks and crafts incredible food. And then he might never give her a beverage that's gonna pair with it, but slide me right in the mix, and she's got an arsenal of opportunities to drink.
SPEAKER_01No, that's pretty that's pretty solid. Was mom into cooking?
SPEAKER_00No, I mean, my mom cooked for us. Like for a single mom, it's impressive how many meals actually we had on the table. Um, the amount of time she made, I mean, the the stronger than oak kind of reference is something that I definitely give my mother in regards to her just due diligence in ensuring that my brother and I were always able to fly through life with appreciation, but also with integrity and support. And she's doing this while maintaining a 50 to 70 hour job and also still getting food on table. It's hard to imagine, right? It it's un uncanny. As an adult now, you know, you reflect back and you think about it, and you're just like, God damn, like just soft clap, like church clap, like truly like honory of religious like levels of appreciation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's uh there's you make time for what's important, right? A lot of our time is stolen today, right? I mean, like we got we got the computer, we got the phone, it's it's crazy, man. We got good beers.
SPEAKER_00It's it's there's so many things that can draw you away from like all of the things you need to get done. Um, I mean, the vacuous suckhole of a scrolling moment. Like you think I just want to check in on one friend, and then suddenly you're like watching some meme about two dudes lighting their farts on fire for an hour. Oh, yeah, you're in a giggle fest. Right, yeah. I'm worried we're all gonna wind up with rectal cancer because we put down the books and we grabbed the phone, and now we're sitting for far too long. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01This could be very possible.
SPEAKER_00It was a very real thing. Um, or at least some serious eye issues, but who knows, you know?
SPEAKER_01Eye issues could become a thing. It's all yet to be foreseen. We'll see. I don't know, 10, 15 years, we'll find out.
SPEAKER_00I mean, we'll be the the the guinea pigs, the real, the real litany test.
SPEAKER_01We are the guinea pigs.
SPEAKER_00Um, but no, I mean to answer your question about the culinary side of like where my upbringing, when I reflect back, you know, it's crazy. My dad, before he went into his practice as like a general contractor handyman, my grandfather and him owned a uh a food distribution like import business.
SPEAKER_01No shit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So we're like in Dallas called Bellin Associates, they they distributed all over the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex, you know, breeze and Harry Bow Gummy Bears and like caviars and escargot, like packaged and so forth. So it was fascinating that he did that and then left it when my grandfather passed away and the business kind of dissolved. And then my grandmother on my mom's side, um, she was like your quintessential woman of that era. I mean, stronger than most humans I've ever met, sharper than most Ken Jennings wannabes and Ken Jennings themselves, like just so savvy and so elegant in her approach of life. And when she left my grandpa and became just a single woman, she never married again. She traveled the globe as an independent woman. And we're talking like the early 70s, like, you know, mid-70s. So that's not a time that a woman says, Hey, I'm gonna be single and I'm just gonna live my life as a single woman and do it my way. Yeah, she did it. But she took us out, and when we would go out to dinner with her, there were rules, there were structures about how to dine, you know. We would go to a dinner. We had to sit still, look at the menu.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You had to look at the menu, associate with what you wanted to order, check in. Once we ordered appetizers, then we got the freedom to go from the table and do a little runaround. But we had to be back by the time the appetizers hit, and they weren't gonna wait for us. So if we were gone and it came and we didn't show back up and they chose to eat it all and we really wanted some, well, that was on us for not knowing our timing. So then we'd get back to the table for apps and we had to stay put through entree order, and then we had to stay put from entree order all the way through to entree delivery, eat, engage, and then we could order dessert, we could go run around again. And then then after that, it was finished with dessert. But I learned how to put my napkin in my lap, you know? I learned how to cut my food. And as a picky eater, my mom and grandmother were very staunch on like, you can pursue this life all that you want. We won't tell you that we don't love you or that this isn't like something that we agree with, but you are gonna have to earn that. So if you want buttered noodles at this French restaurant, you have to ask the waiter yourself, excuse me, sir. Good, good. May I please have buttered noodles? So I had to learn the confidence to order the way I want it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, that may be where all this roots back to.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't a massive part of like the connective piece.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that's great, man. Yeah. Like I love that. The independence of because like it's like you learn that as a kid, and not that you're immature like a kid, but you've carried like an energy, right? Up until this day, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean it's a kid, I want my butter noodles, so pardon, garçon? Garcon? Right. Um, and it made me just love dining. You know, that was where we sat as a family and just shared. There's nothing better, right? No. There's nothing better than sitting down with a collection of people and eating food and laughing and like the best stories come out, the most in-depth conversations, the deepest of shares, and the highest of highs and lowest lows coming across a table in which you're breaking bread and and raising glass.
SPEAKER_01Have you heard the expression, it tastes like chicken? I want to tell you about the highest-rated chicken farm in the South. Greener Pastures Chicken raises organic, pasture-raised birds, and elgin that the top chefs in central Texas have been putting on their customers' plates like it's nobody's business. They're USDA certified organic, non-GMO Project Verified, Real Organic Project Certified, Certified Humane, and Go Texan. They're in the final stages of becoming the first poultry farm nationwide to obtain regenerative organic certified status. You heard that right. They're humane, they're sustainable farmers, and they are the chicken of choice for the top chefs in Central Texas. For those of you who love to cook at home, you can pick up locally Greener Pastures Chicken at People's RX and Diet's Market, or you can have it shipped to your home courtesy of farmhouse delivery. It doesn't just taste like chicken. And reason. Sure. I I'm so shift gears a little bit. I'm curious about I mean what you're doing right now, currently, do you I mean, is it like a a playlist, like a mixtape? Like how do you come up with the wine that you want to deliver to people?
SPEAKER_00I mean, for me, man, I think like I I so I went to college for creative writing and I I took several um journalism classes, one of them being on being a critic. And one of my greatest teachers said to me, he's like, you know, a key to being a critic is that you have to say your opinion, but your opinion no longer becomes opinion once you say it, it becomes the word of God. And you have to stand by it as no longer an opinion, but a fact in review of whatever you just consumed, whether it be art, literature, plays, food, wine, music. So I when I came to starting to build wineless, uh, what I found was I didn't want to take the full-on critic approach. But you have to implicitly trust yourself. And in the case of wine, you have to trust your palate. Beer too. You have to trust your palate. But then something that I learned along the way is like when you trust your palate, that's fine. But you might taste something that you love that's very avant-garde and challenging to a novice or even a long-standing wine drinker. So, how do you then tie it all together so you make sure that no one feels lost in your sea of options? And the way that I've done that is I don't just buy thinking of what I want to drink, I buy thinking of ensuring that anytime anybody from any slice of life comes in looking for a beverage, they will find something. And that comes implicitly by also educating your staff with the tools they need to be able to waltz them through unique regions, avant-garde, grape varietals, and tie them together with the flavor profiles they like. Not what they drink, but why they drink what they drink. So you love Sauvignon Blanc, right? We don't say, or I've never thought the pursuit to get the real answer came from, oh, okay, like what Sauvignon Blancs do you like? Saying, what do you like about Sauvignon Blanc? And then they say, Oh, well, you know, I love that it's citrusy, it's crisp, it's bright, it's easy drinking, it's light. And then you're like, oh, okay, so you you by nature like all of those words in any performative varietal glass or region. Well, I've got this stunning scarlet from the Dalmatia coast of Croatia. That basically is the Croatian indigenous varietal representation of Savillon Blanc, staunchly its own, but it carries bright lemon tones, little dashes of kind of like sharp singing, tickling acidities. It's got this wonderful mineral content that brings a lot of levity and vivacity to the mix. And then it finishes almost as though it's like spring water off an Icelandic glazer. So how refreshing is that? And they're like, wow, well, okay, um, I'll try that. And then it's not-that's what I just thought. Yeah, like it's not I didn't get my Sauvignon Blanc. It's I got to have an experience. And if you approach every glass and every bottle, like the chance to give people an experience, you're always gonna win, man. You know, as we get older in life, our opportunities to pop a cherry to have a first, so rare, right? We've done so much, but you remember first. Like, you remember that first time you ripped a joint, you remember that first love letter you got in middle school, you remember, you know, the first time that you scored a goal in a sport or anything like that. Like those are huge moments and they're impactful. So if you have a glass of something that you've never had before for the first time, which wine has a bountiful ability to do since it's so many different varietals, so many different parts of the world. I mean, everywhere except Antarctica grows grape. So you have this chance to navigate people into all these firsts. And then when they reflect, they reflect on the first, where they were, who they were with, and suddenly you're endeared. So you're connected. And so I buy, I build my wine list about adventurism, I build my wine list about connectivism, like connectivity, and I really try to build my wine list with the ability to know that anybody from your sweetest of Moscato lover all the way up to your most like adventurous, wildcard, funky lover of the world that's looking for a flavor profile that doesn't seem appetable or appetizing at all, is gonna not only find it, but love that version of it that you've brought to the table.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I should not be taken back by that's I asked about how you built that's that's a great answer. That's very cool. Um from the love letters. Like I love that. Like the thought behind like the the the depth to what goes on in our heads to the facts with Antarctica. That's it.
SPEAKER_00That's the place it's the only place, only only place in the world that there aren't some form of great bridals.
SPEAKER_01I need to like rewind this and like stop and be like, wait, hold on, hold on. Let's dial back on what you just said here. No, no, uh, yeah, very, very cool. Um I'm I'm super intrigued that I've not been over there, self amore, and I need to be. A very wine and kitchen. Yeah, and you're you're actively there, right?
SPEAKER_00I'm there every Wednesday. Um, I that's my day on the floor when you will always find me present and and in it. Otherwise, I work the list from afar, but I have built the training so and alongside some others that I I still like, I would never have been as good as I am without them. People like Leslie Higgs, who now works for Serendipity Imports, and you know, Marco Fiorillo, who's a first owner of Aviary, just working alongside of me and encouraging me. Um, John Coronado, who started Aviary for Believing in me. Like, there's a lot of people in this city that have made me better. Um, but I, through that assistance and them kind of being in the similar view and mindset, I built a training that provides my team with the ability to be their own version of what I would expect of myself. Oh, I love it. So that they can be there and they can be, it's not a tour guide. They are truly like a um, they're like your confidant. They're your partner for the hour and a half to two hours to single glass you stand with us. And they will traverse the list, they'll taste you on things, they'll engage you, and they'll make sure that you feel seen, you feel heard, and you feel celebrated for whatever selection you go with, whether it was something that they were encouraging you to get or something holy on the left side of something that they didn't even bring to the table. They're just elated that you're there and they're elated to help you get where they want, where you want to go. Yeah. So that's really what we do.
SPEAKER_01No, I love this. Um, I think, like I said, your energy is infectious and I'm sure it's a good time.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, we have a lot of fun. And then, you know, speaking of just trying to like have fun, one of the things that I started to like be able to be because I I, as you we started this, I love being on the floor. You know, I love being out and engaging and sharing my verbose nature of uh wine and food and the way they interact. And when the pandemic hit, you know, that that was eradicated.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00We all know that time. Everything was weird. Yeah, everything was funky. So trapped in our bubbles about how we proceed to write a new normal was very daunting and polarizing. But I thought, you know, what are we losing more than anything? And I thought the intimacy of a chef's table is the greatest gift that we can have in the culinary world. To sit with an artist who performs their brush strokes directly in front of you and then presents it and shares the inspiration of where it came from. And then for the fermentation kind of like fiend all to come by and tell you about how the wine is going to interact to give you that much more of a complimentary, enhanced experience. There was no way to do that during the pandemic. You're too close, you're too intimate, you're too connective. It's it wasn't allowed. So that's when I started Midnight in the Garden, which is my chef's tasting table that I run at different locations throughout the city.
SPEAKER_01Sure, sure. And this would uh tie in my uh friend here, oh yeah, Randy Hester.
SPEAKER_00Mad Love Randy. Lightning Wine, COBTO, new tasting room on Saint St. Elmo, go check them out. They're the people. Papa Frenchie will get you there.
SPEAKER_01Love it. There you go. There's the plug. You gotta give it. I mean, there's so many clips that I want to use as an intro, you know, so it's just ridiculous. Um, but the um you know, tying this back in I have a couple segments I'm gonna go into here which would uh involve uh bathrooms. Bringing up Randy because he shouted you out.
SPEAKER_00I mean, yeah, gave me love. Like I got abducted by him. It made sense. He put abductions on his bathrooms inside the C O Mateau bathroom. It's worth going and seeing just for the bathrooms alone, people. Get your selfie. Get your get your Instagram clad.
SPEAKER_01Get your Instagram clad. So where you've been here 12 years now, right? And Philly before that, Dallas. I mean, you're you're you're native Texan. Yep. When you come here, where's your bathroom? Potty talk here.
SPEAKER_00Oh man. Are we talking for like having a comfortable movement? Or are we talking just for a space and time in which you feel transported? Well, I guess you can answer for both. So I mean, like, the one place you're not going to have a comfortable time is sidebar. There is nobody that's ever had a gut buster of a meal and felt that like going to sidebar to have a bathroom moment was going to be a good time. And you might see your name on the wall, so then you're in another whole little world of like who could have done that. Um but perfect. Yeah, that's exactly what you want to see of that. Yeah, no, exactly. Um, for me, man, I I find it funny. Like when we were developing Aviary, we actually put so much intention into putting the what the bathroom was going to be because it's become a real thing. I mean, there's articles about the best places to take a selfie in Austin in a bathroom. Oh, shut up. No joke. There are like articles about it. I'm not even kidding, man. I gotta read that. Um I think that, you know, for me, um, one of the first bathrooms that really kind of I thought transcended what a normal bathroom was was Hopfields. So Bay up at Hopfields has this crazy, like Western getaway pulp kind of comic thing all across his walls that's like it's got a damsel in distress escaping some villainous cowboys and like a hero cowboy helping her. It's overdrawn like 1990s Marvel where everything's very buxome and like the cowboys are very brooding. It's it's next level and it's got like a holographic kind of reflective thing going on. It's really sick. And and Bay kind of had some vision, and it's a dark bathroom, too. I don't know. I'm a fan of dark bathrooms. I know they're not great for pictures, but like you're not doing a lot of bright things in a bathroom.
SPEAKER_01So like well, are we supposed to be taking pictures in the bathroom?
SPEAKER_00I don't know. I mean, you know, we well, we didn't have cameras for eon, so it wasn't even a thought. Like, you wouldn't go and grab your Nikon to roll into the bathroom and like take photos. You're like, oh, there's poo particles floating around in there.
SPEAKER_01Like, you know, I Vay was here, and I don't know if we were doing the potty talks that we then. And now I'm like hyper curious because now I want to talk to him about the bathroom.
SPEAKER_00Oh, dude. I I think it was he was one of the first, in my opinion, to really do it. Um, I think Kitty Cohen's with the flamingos. We've gotten that, yeah. It it just brightens your day, man. You know, it just brings you up. But like to shout out something new where bathrooms are still being thought of as very important design elements in your establishment. My boy Jo Ziccoli down at Casabianco that just opened right there across from the OG Buffalina that's now completely decimated. It's a building of some kind for something that's not nearly as intentional as Buffalina was.
SPEAKER_01Where's the OG Buffalina?
SPEAKER_00So it was right on Caesar Chavez, um, uh like about like three blocks down, but it got bulldozed in favor of like, you know, a modern Austin build. But across away was this building that's kind of been a lost boy and or girl in regards to like what it was. It's been a barbecue joint. I think it was a breakfast joint for a moment. It's two tiers. They've got an updoor, updoor like bar or upstairs bar patio thing. But downstairs, Casabianca, I've I've known Joe, long-standing Uchi alumni, exec at um, I think at least two Uchi concepts.
SPEAKER_01That's where you cut your teeth here.
SPEAKER_00Yes. I mean, that's that's how you get your that's how you get your knife skills, that's for sure. Um Tyson Cole has put a lot of people into this stratosphere. I mean, my boy Justin Huffman, you've got a toco, or you've got Yosh just making the first omakaze. Huh? Was Gasper ever there?
SPEAKER_01Uh no, I no, he wasn't. He was but he's uh there's a trickle down.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's done it. I think he really came into his own at the James Beard House, but I mean, you know, um, and barley swine to say the least, like especially OG Barley swine on Salthamar, God rest in peace. That was such a sick structure.
SPEAKER_01Now, isn't the elementary Yeah?
SPEAKER_00My boys, Coulter Peck and um Alan and Chris Arriel. He's he's fun. Coulter's a really sweet guy, intimidatingly attractive. Like, make him keep his shirt on. It's bullshit. I'm like, dude, what the fuck?
SPEAKER_01There's there's like a handful of gentlemen in the world that I'm totally okay with saying you're hot.
SPEAKER_00Oh no, Coulter's insanely hot, and he knows it. Yeah, you know it. You know it. Um and Chris, the two of them, like you could grate Parmesan on other bodies. It's like just and I'd eat it. I'd eat it. No, no questions asked. Um, but no, at Casabianca, he's got these monkeys that are drinking stoli and smoking cigs, climbing through the trees. And I just like it. If you know Joe on a personal level and then you know his tongue-in-cheek approach to food, especially at what he's doing at Casabianca, like to me, dude, it's just a vibe. And it he's got, you know, really cool Fellini posters to tie back in the Italian thing, you know, as an actor slash film lover, like Fellini, Satiricon, all that stuff, like just there. I mean, I don't think there's ever been a more um, you know, you got Paul Newman in the States and you got Michella Mastiani in Italy. Like, those are the two, dude. Yeah. Men to aspire to. Just be good. Be good.
SPEAKER_01Bottle it up. Um next segment, which I think you may have alluded to, but where where do you go to eat? Like you're just like your go-to spot. Whether it's P.
SPEAKER_00Terry's or Yeah, no, no, no. I mean, I um I I know where to get a half-price bottle of wine anywhere in any day in the city. It's kind of one of my superpowers.
SPEAKER_01The the liquid, liquid honor.
SPEAKER_00The motivator, you know, the happy hour to make sure. Because, you know, once you get into wine, you start knowing what wine costs at wholesale and you start having a little bit of chagrin about paying the full price for it. You want to pay the honorarium to the producer, but you know, it's like it when you want to have a really nice dinner and then you want to have an illustrious bottle, and suddenly you're like, wow, like that's that's a $500 dinner. I did not intend to have. You know, how many cards can I pull out at the same time to run all the points and make this work? But um no, I I've I've eaten a Casabianca recently, which was really exceptional. Joe's doing Joe's doing wonderful stuff there. Um, prior to its disillusion, I think that Charles uh at apartment 115 when he was doing his tasting menu. It's now defunct, so if you got it while it was there, kudos to you. It was, I mean, he he was at um Jose Andre's uh tiny little DC joint for a while. Um Charles Charles, uh I'm gonna apologize. It's either Zoe or Zhao. Okay. Um Z-H, I think U O or A O. And he's just he is a very intense human, but so intense that everything in his personality is put forth in his food and has this childlike wonderment to it. He's a tasting menu chef. He just does really, really groovy stuff.
SPEAKER_01Nice.
SPEAKER_00Um, and then before uh several of my dear friends departed, and I still have some there, you know, Ethan's still hanging out holding it down, and Nicole is also like probably one of the best floor managers you'll ever have or GMs that you could ever ask for. But Justine's, we all know that it's a space you can go. I miss the 2 a.m. I do miss the 2 a.m.'s, I'm not gonna lie. Getting, you know, a beautiful dish at one in the morning after like being silly earlier in the night, like dinner too. I mean, Italy loves a dinner too. So I've like always been a big fan of like I feel like that is the appropriate answer for you. Yeah, I mean, Justine. It's a vibe, you know. There's there's sometimes a little too much of the the uh temptations of of a French lifestyle there, but I I still I still think it's just such a wonderful little space that's uh not like anything else in our city. Oh yeah. Um and and there's some interest in, you know, you craft they crafted that. Um but I normally the space I go to the most frequently because I love her program and her and all of the things that she's done for our industry as a person in regards to diversification, and then as well as all the people that have done wonderful work as chefs there, whether it's at Due or the um singular Buffalina. I mean, Ranya Zayat, who is their um beverage director and one of the I think now co-owners of the business, alongside Stephen Dilley. Um, my boy Brooks is at the helm in the in the kitchen now. And I just think they're doing such wonderful takes on really good referential pizza. They're not trying to be Italian, they're still being themselves, they're not trying to be in New York, they're still being themselves. The list lean's mostly natural, but Ranya has a really beautifully nuanced way of ensuring that you could get the world of natural wines in the most avant-garde, polarizing, and challenging down to stuff that you could serve to your Uncle Buck. And he's like, What? That's pretty good, guys. And you're like, Well, thanks, Uncle Buck. Glad you like it. So I I think that, and and their happy art can't be beat. I mean, half-price pizzas and half-price bottles of wine under a hundred every day that they're open, like, come on. Like, you know, four pizzas, and you're still like, yeah, 50 bucks, maybe 60. Yeah, well, you heard it here first. I mean that's a spot. Go get you some. They don't they don't need the plug, but I'm glad to do it for them because they're my people.
SPEAKER_01But people want to know.
SPEAKER_00Not uh I'm trying to, you know, I I will always be a messenger to the people, you know. I'll I'll Paul Revere it any day of the week, you know. It's not the the pizza is coming and it's coming into your life via these spaces. So that one there, but then yeah, I uh I don't know where Charles is right now. I think he's figuring himself out and onto his next steps. But um and don't forget Dewey as well. Brooks is at the single, but in terms of Buffalina Dewey, like um Eli uh is now chef of um Buffalina Dewey, he's the executive chef, and he's he's a kid I got to work with at Aviary, and he's just a really wonderful human, and I think he is underestimating how talented he really is sometimes. And I know that he's just putting out really thoughtful, intentional things out there.
SPEAKER_01Good, good. Well, that's a bummer when that happens, but you know, maybe there's a time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I mean he's he's gonna say he's gonna see this in the spotlight. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we we did not talk much about the food at Aviary. Yeah. What can you tell me a bit about that?
SPEAKER_00So food at Aviary has always been kind of designed around the same thing, and that's the fact that, you know, I'm wine and kitchen is in our name, right? So you can't you we're not just a wine bar, even if we'll give you everything you go to a wine bar for, you know, a great atmosphere, an engaged staff, a bountiful selection of thoughtful uh iterations and releases from across the world. But the kitchen element has always been about the same reason that wine and kitchen and a title, they have to be, you know, complimentary, they have to be that that beautiful waltz in unison that you're almost like, I can't take my eyes away because of the way they move in in harmony with one another. And so the food is always limitless in the regions that it pulls from, because as we mentioned, you know, wine is a global traveler beyond anything Gulliver could have imagined. So you can dance in New American, you can play in, you know, Eastern European, you can dabble in South and Central American, you can go as far as even, you know, messing around with some of the more avant-garde or unique flavors from like um different countries in Asia that really are just like doing something that's wholly different than anything else. And we take all of that, and I think that all of the chefs that we've had uh over the time, I've felt honored to work next to any and and all of them. They have just been so rad and they've taught me so much. But that's the thing that I think is the real draw for chefs to come to Aviary and take any type of role is that there is and and historically has been, and I hope it forever continues, there's been a limitless opportunity to create. And as long as it knows how to in interact with wine in a complementary and well-suited fashion, then let's put it on the menu. And so I think that's really what we try to bring at Aviary. And you know, I'm solely responsible for the wine list, but my wine list is only as good as the things that complement it. So, you know, if you're having nothing but like polarizing intense dishes that don't work with wine, that crave a whiskey or a stout or anything like that. And don't get me wrong, we've got a very well thought out and and attended to beer list. Um but we're sans liquor, and so you know, we've gotta make sure it works with wine. And so that's really my focus and their focus, I think, has always been where we're at.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, what a cool world to to thrive in. Yeah, man. We I mean, you yourself, you've you're I I feel like you've been uh I'm just guessing, happy for a long time.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah, I'm I mean I'm I'm a pretty happy person by nature. I'm I'm I'm a brimming optimist by who I am, and like even with a glass half full or a glass three quarters empty, you know, you still got a little bit of love in that glass. So like sip it down and celebrate those sips. That's why they come. Yeah, and they keep on coming back. And I feel like that's been my draw, and that's that's where everything from the incredible humans that I've met during my time, being on the floor every day at Avier, even moving away to like, you know, being there one day a week, uh present and on the floor, to following me into midnight in the garden and coming and seeing me talk about the pairings that I've been so lucky to partner with some of the greatest chefs in our city. And that's what I love about that is I get so many different takes on food to work alongside people I've admired, people I've wanted to work with for forever. And then I get to just wax poetic about why this wine was the perfect selection for what they made and why they made it and who they are for making it, and you know, really just captivating an audience so that they can be captivated by the combination of plate and glass.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. No, that's great. The so do you feel like right now where you're at currently is exactly where you want to be? Or do you have future plans for yourself?
SPEAKER_00I mean, uh, you know. Because it's not a bad life. No, no. I I very much like I I'm never one to put his feet up for too long. Like I take my pink Floyd moments and rest my bones by the fire, much like anybody else, when it's needed and it's time. But I also believe that, you know, if you're lucky enough to have been raised in an era when BIG was an inspiration in the world of hip hop, you know, sky's the limit, my friends. So you've got to think about like what else can you do and how much further can you go and grow. And while I love where I am and I feel very blessed to be where I am, and thank you to this city for supporting me to get there so, so much. I really never knew um how much Austin would infect me and then how lucky I am to be celebrated by the city because it's one of the best. Um, I do think that there is still there's room. And with both concepts, I've built the opportunity that there are avenues for further exploration and further reach. So whether, you know, midnight goes to uh a national tour de force, like people akin to uh outstanding in the field, or Aviary opens up multiple concepts, or we open up a secondary concept that's straight up just like a watering hole, no food, just great wine and really good conversation and peanuts on the floor. Yeah, like here for it. Like, you know, I think that we really do always have chances to do more. And then as long as you make sure to give back the people that give you that opportunity to do more, that's when you really like can can make your most talking dirty and then getting really beautiful at the end. Yeah, you know, it's like fucking Monet. Like, you know, you gotta you say it one way, but then you got the beauty to back you up. It's like how you do.
SPEAKER_01No, that's great, man. Is there so Wednesday nights you we can find you there?
SPEAKER_00Wednesday nights. It's also flight nights, so it's the only time I've I've relinquished one of my greatest apprehensions and adversaries in the world of wine. I do a flight night, which I've always hated because it's so much glassware and there's so much chance for breakage, and margins are not great, but we do it for you, the people. There we go. Um, so yeah, Wednesday night flight night, happy hours, four to six every day. All bottles sub 100 are half price. We do a six dollar selection glass that I personally curate, and it's not, this ain't no box wine. This is like wines that I really care about and think about. And so I take a hit on my margins so that people can drink some really beautiful things at a very affordable price because everyone at some point in their life should be drinking great wine. And there's nothing wrong with a $10 bottle. I know bottles that are $10 that I would drink today, right now, in this moment. We could slam it together. But I do think that when you, you know, are learning about wine, the only way you're gonna grow your knowledge is to try something maybe a little bit at a price point that's not so comfortable for you. So why not give it to them at that ability? I always say, dude, if you're going into a half-price bottle sub 100 thing, what's your number that you normally spend? You want to spend 50 on a bottle of wine to keep it at a fair meal, maybe 45, maybe 40. That still gives you the 80s and $99 bottles to go to. Just jump into that world. Look for the most expensive thing sub 100, start ordering those. You know, I know you're or if you're going with a bunch of friends and you're just trying to get silly, like, yeah, find my $50 bottle and order three of them and get three on the table for $25. Right, right, right. Splitting it anyway.
SPEAKER_01There's always that spirit. Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um, but yeah, you can find me Wednesdays at Aviary. Um, and then we're kind of quiet in the summer. We've got some fun things coming up for midnight. We're doing a little tiki takeover in August, which is gonna be really rad. New world for me. Learning about the history of tiki is just insane. But my brother now living in Hawaii makes sense for me to learn more about the tiki culture and so forth. And then in the fall, we've got a hell of a lineup. You know, we're talking to our friends out in Marfa. Not speaking of the road we're currently on, Bordeaux. If you haven't been to Marfa and you haven't tasted the food of Bordeaux, you're really missing out. You should go check it out. Um, we are rapping with some chefs out of Chicago that we're really excited to potentially be flying in.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's my home stomping grounds. Of course, the suburbs, so I can't just say that.
SPEAKER_00I mean, talk about a beer city. Like, that's that's a beer city. Three Floyds, baby. I mean, like, once you've had your first behemoth, like, if you can still see straight, you're you're doing all right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'll have to tell Zach Sutton, my my other buddy, who's here now here from Chicago.
SPEAKER_00So Oh yeah, please holler at him because I've got much love. The Green Mill is my favorite place to go get a dirty martini and put the jukebox on full blast. Nice. Um, but yeah, I mean, we've got we've got Daisies, hopefully, in Chicago is gonna come through. And our Halloween dinners are always wild. If you like to dress up, if you're a cosplay or just somebody that likes a good costume, we got Amanda Turner recently off her beautiful run on Top Chef doing her DD inspired fiery talon pop-up, which is gonna be really dope. Um interesting. Yeah, we uh we're pretty pretty elated for it all. I think Grey Nonis might sneak in the mix, maybe a little cowboy revisiting from his concept that shuttered during the pandemic, but was only a brief little glimpse. He's been at Buffalina and Palm Pizza. Um, we're stoked, man. We're really, really excited for all the things to come.
SPEAKER_01Very cool. Well, thank you for coming in.
SPEAKER_00Long overdue.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, Jason, like, hey, I'll sit and chat with you in front of a microphone any day. Welcome back anytime.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I quite literally mean that. Um, even with other guests and stuff, all anytime. Good stuff.
SPEAKER_00Love an open door. I mean, any door that welcomes me with like, you know, a shaggy character like you did, like, I'm down. I'll be here. And it wasn't the carpet, ladies and gentlemen. Right. It wasn't swinger situations. He didn't make me put my keys in a bowl. He just he has the most adorable little pup that's like, I'm here for it. Is he still sitting right with you? No, no, he departed me. I think, I think I was petting so aggressively that he's like, dude, this is the most love I've gotten. I am good. I'm I'm about to chill. Yeah, he's like, the loving cup is good, my friend.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's Finn the uh mascot. So official now. No. When are you getting a tattoo? Anytime, right now.
SPEAKER_00Nice, nice. I got a dude. He only does ass cheeks though, so it's going right on the right. I could get down with that.
SPEAKER_01That's that's not a bad spot.
SPEAKER_00No, dude.
SPEAKER_01See that when you moon someone. Yeah. I had a deep tissue massage recently, which I've never done review. No. I gotta shout her out real quick. Her name is Grace. There's no shouting out because I don't have any of our information. But holy shit. It was on my left ass though. Oh. And I'll tell you, man, that felt so good.
SPEAKER_00You were sitting like a king after that? You were like floating on clouds? I still am. Yeah. It was like two weeks ago. This chair is Mount Olympus.
SPEAKER_01It's all good.
SPEAKER_00Good for you, my friend. Like, nope. Never had a full massage in my life. Need one. You yeah.
SPEAKER_01I feel like that's gonna be. I'm gonna tell her. You're a now I'm sponsoring you. Converted. I love that, dude. I got it.
SPEAKER_00I attempted one to leave you with a fun anecdote. I attempted one in Southeast Asia. Uh, I was in Cambodia and I had just done some work helping build a solar installation for a middle school there with some homies. Um, it was, I think I was 27. I don't know, I was 20, 25, I don't know. I was maybe I was some age. No, it was 30 because I turned 30 when I was in Laos. So I was 30. There we go. Like, wow, math, people. I told you, not my strong suit. But I was 30 and uh we built this, but during the build out, I had um cracked a rib and I broken two toes, and I couldn't tell the woman at this massage institution, all on the level, nothing, get your minds out of the gutter, kids. But as I was getting it done, I was trying to convey to her, please stay away from my ribs and my toes. And I don't know if anyone's had a massage, but you know when they pop your toes and fingers, it's like kind of a standard, I guess. Well, she got my big toe and my my second to the right, my this little piggy went to the market. No, I they were broken. So she popped them both as they were broken. And uh as I almost fainted, I learned just enough to figure out how to scream stop in um in the native tongue of Cambodia, which I think is the universal tongue of like fuck. And then she stopped because she was scared and it was loud, and I just got up and was like, Thank you, but I have to stop. And I hobbled out of there.
SPEAKER_01And not fun.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no. The the the cheap beers on the street and street food were much healthier for my healing than that massage was, too.
SPEAKER_01Kind of like always healthier in some sense. You know it.
SPEAKER_00That's how we live.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much for coming in. This is great. It's been an absolute blast.
SPEAKER_00Let's do it again. Jason, please, please, or anytime. All right.