#926 דבי בריטברד & הרב ערן דאום | הורים מזדקנים והנטל הסיעודי: איך לעשות זאת מבלי שהמשפחה תתפרק?

בפרק זה של הפודקאסט "על המשמעות" עו"ד תמיר דורטל מארח את דבי בריטברד, עובדת סוציאלית וראש המערך הסוציאלי במיזם "צוהר עד 120", ואת הרב ערן דאום מרבני צהר, לשיחה על אחת הסוגיות הרגישות והמורכבות ביותר בחברה הישראלית: הטיפול והליווי של בני משפחה בסוף חייהם.
השיחה צוללת אל תוך הממשק הייחודי שנוצר במיזם בין עולם ההלכה לעולם העבודה הסוציאלית. דבי והרב ערן משתפים בחוויות מהשטח – מהרגע שבו משפחה מגיעה לצומת החלטה גורלי לגבי המשך טיפול, הנשמה או האכלה מלאכותית, ועד לדינמיקות הפנים-משפחתיות שמתפרצות סביב מיטת החולה. הפרק עוסק במתח שבין הרצון להאריך חיים בכל מחיר לבין הרצון למנוע סבל, ובחשיבות של אחדות המשפחה ביום שאחרי.
מהו המחיר הנפשי והכלכלי שמשלמים בני המשפחה המטפלים? כיצד מתמודדים עם הורה דמנטי שמתנהג בתוקפנות או במניפולטיביות? והאם יש דרך נכונה להיפרד מהורה שאיבד את היכולת לתקשר?
המאזינים ילמדו על הזכויות המגיעות למטפלים בישראל, על החשיבות של חלוקת תפקידים בין האחים כדי למנוע קריסה, ועל הכוח המרפא של השמיעה – החוש האחרון שנותר לפני המוות. זהו פרק חובה לכל מי שמתמודד עם הורים מזדקנים, למי שרוצה להבין את עומק המצווה של כיבוד הורים במצבי קיצון, ולמי שמחפש כלים פרקטיים ורוחניים להתמודדות עם סוף החיים.

קישור לאתר 🌐 - https://ad120.tzohar.org.il/
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00:00:00 הצגת המיזם "צהר עד 120"
00:01:59 מתי משפחות פונות למוקד לעזרה?
00:03:51 הדילמה ההלכתית: הנשמה, זונדה ופג (PEG)
00:06:14 היתרון שבשילוב רב ועובדת סוציאלית
00:09:44 למה זום הוא כלי עבודה מצוין למשפחות?
00:13:21 אתגרי כיבוד הורים במצבי דמנציה
00:16:35 מניפולציות ובושות: כשההורה משתנה
00:19:00 המחיר הכבד של בני משפחה מטפלים
00:22:45 הלכות כיבוד הורים: מי מלווה ומי משלם?
00:25:35 זכויות והטבות מהמדינה למשפחה המטפלת
00:30:43 סיפור מקרה: אחדות משפחתית בקורונה
00:34:40 עשייה רוחנית: איך להועיל כשאין מזור רפואי?
00:38:51 החשיבות של פתיחת דברים וסגירת מעגלים
00:43:01 האם להביא נכדים להיפרד מסבא וסבתא?
00:46:06 סיכום: שרשרת הדורות וכיבוד הורים

#פודקאסט #על_המשמעות

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Ponimalenu Kmochibartem Binan Dementia, we come. And you'd have to mala mishloshimshana, but we have a very good idea.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Ravan, Azma Tafkilhasam, B Kh Batchilovat Mishpah, Vniya Elenu Kolelet Betuka Kamuvan Betim Socialim, Aval Baroshovarishonama Shim Vienna Shimlifnote, Zheit Lapto Tilchat. Bonika Sheilale Mashal Shelley Khord Dugmala specifiaze. Ola, Olaqdir, Panaylainu, Anitale Sipurhir, Panaylaynu Ametupal Beatzmo, Yachadim Bnemish Pachtoam Bnemish Paktoam Melavim, Weamar Anikolkar, Kolkar, Kolkar Sovel, Vaniodea, Utzalulegamre, Sha Ofek Shelo, Statistica, Yesh Uh Mahalan Wait. Weudash Uleh Likrat Chaim Melee Surim. Uomer Anime Vakashmichem, Tati, Litolet Nafchi. Anime Vinchani Loh Khibeshvait. Anime Vinchan Iloh Hai Bachutzareth the Avalash Dwarim Shaf Sharla Azot. Oomer Aniholasot Dwarim Shiah Muti. The Bethav at Kodimkol Bukheitu Atta Nimzabi Akadim Mishpahavat Mamirhav ma'amutarla asot vemasu, amunim, azesha la khaimashek dusha vieš erh, vasulanulit arev velachish manamavit. Malhu can e khulim la azot baetazot. Aim bnea mishbach matzavo, gam Besheilochele aim ezema refuim tzarihla asot, bethumatipulba machala, ezema matzim refuim shalla asot batroom apalliativik, lomar letapelba keevchelo, la vilomazo, the gum, my sort meaver, the kana nichoshev, the young shiacharei, the chelash of socialit, yikola la tetla manerhav. Shailta echha.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

Shaalta echa mivgasholech, mivgash mutil, shakuk my better.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

As anashim, the kvarkash, as man, as the delet mob to high slick, a ketashim the bezu, the lobe frontali, the buzu.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Kithal, nihala gichazoom, the warm. Codum call me frinat's minute, and a shimba bite, and a shimp should be a good thing. O de zoom had him. At a law at the kise, at a royal, beauty of shut, gam shata baichelha, gam shata govot shiranashim. As another, the ptichut, madhima, shim. Yes,im dwarim andashim yot emisham be kilo. Bot a giddulanu, colo makwa ima abba shelha, makua ima ima shelha. Makua, mata mgish. The as codum call pitoma ima shumat, it's a ben medabir, a la abba betzuwa, kwa matana kitum, mevinim, matachim, the matar matav.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

We can trigger shall rova ponim dayom, the trigger ilhati, a banish, no, ish, shwal alhaha, as bonifneva's, beta socialit me tarefan, separate muna trafactat.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

I mean the socialit not. Masu shall beachad, Villorak, a psakalakal benodamihad, mim, coolam beachad me vinim, lamachla tamit kabelet kazut, coulam beyachad me vinim chene sapam matsa yasi. Abepahugam shualim, Mawayamir, mwahola beida torshab, maway. Mawa marshe ima sabe matsa do me shelu, or semishwa khair, wa marmashu, ma'ma wu. Webamishpahoto, abba be metsi perle hasha saftan ifterra, let kolmash saftasavla. Laya tambla. The mashule pitom shadailadim, is card shaba marloze. Abasheli, a marli dwarim, sha, velehidvarim shullozala gidli ma shelly the pote himla, kivadashi itnaged, so marli amar lahiva marlofe of khayav kio.

SPEAKER_02 15:47

Amarka, kibudorhim. Kibudorhimatsavim kale?

SPEAKER_01 15:54

Kodak's kibudorhim and a khim zot mitzvahret, mitzvah to ram of dicha sachar, the losa bederechla le manya richunya mecha. Zot mitzvah shapuskimalehleash ki abe odme od Adam Tsahlit Masserelia, mitzvah Govam Khirim e odmod Kashim, Adam Nitba Nemehrim. Vzeh, Erech Gadol, Shanachnu Mechan Khimalav meal dut. Bedachumdimethot kibuduhrim, and khumdimutam Besnot betasefer, vazanaknuiladim, wahrim shalanu e mehbrim Briim Baruch Hashem Vezeh Ksh Sugyot ki Budorhim, Vere Bitterphon she ima shlom vazout, et kapota yadai me tachatra glea, the sugiyotomathilit modeletambe gilar bayim khamishim, shishim veshanim pitome, vugare. Aval ma kurek shebemet, our mode me vugar, kashemodlo bait, kiut so ekve mishtolel, ki nimtzabetakneset, wumitnekura knaset lacholeachil, bitom. The mitzadeha, zeme od khashuvlov, z gamethashovla mishpachav, z gambeshumvan, shomerethayav, zenoteloze zamashu makir, zamashuyodia, mitsacheni, zeme odmod kashem, od kasheba mikhav, yeladimni tba'im le she lochel kibudu rim kshaurim vazimutam kshe mba'im elem elema baita. Ayeled mazmin werli andirotse, le azmine ta urea baita, niragila azminuto elaya baita, avalekol pam kshe abasheli ba elaya baita, azashabato fekatliot gainom uso ekveumekale, lvumitnegloya fewose le marbeat tsa.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

Besu g machalote khompalim kilushem normativim be machalot seamodalem legamrmativim.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Eme odmodlotzfuim, kshanhumdabrima le kolamishpachazo chel machalota dementia, lesugea, anashim mitsade khadi holim liot me odjkuim, me odjketim, odmechunasimba tzmam, emiholim gamyot me odsuarim, me ottukpaniim, nitkalu bekama sipurim shel anashim manipulativim ayali sipur shel abba sheshneila davad gar me odkarovelav, ve mekayemeta mitzvah, ugar karovwa umeta pelba ababa, ve benakhair garbechutzaret. Yatzamatzav she abbenche gar karovle abba, abalom daberito. Shaloshanim lomda berito. Vagen abbenche garbechutzarets wa benamuadav, ve abagam Kachomedab Kahu po el Kachomedabir, Kachukamedwege Lechhaven Etay Rusha, Kah Zemasha yla Dimargishim.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Ametakenos ganim shabak kol se volyom flu saftahaya, milakhlehet, a love moulon, ah Bodikalo Yoni, Yoni of Paulomegea, Uloba said, O Lob said, of Paulomekia, ni Yoni, Ani Yon.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Asbehlehte matzavime odmutkashim gametuhmishpaha, Gamat Sav shele slikha, gamath, ha'ima wa abba kwasima la kala. Uma sala vita abita valudashani abita the shabbache la kalla lo shabat ki ilumofiga la reda talea, ala ochil, ala dvrim, almashiusa, al kol davarsiusa, so echhatamav. Fazu ghaymishha, ksatamavir shov the love, mash the demands, the gami holiot nafiota, love the gam ket, ketsawahma machalashel miz daknut. So, miz dakim, vene nigenim kmo show.

SPEAKER_01 20:47

Abeb pamima dilemma iloke ech ahu reit negat zenu babyt. A benuabat, vakerita urim, vaker kama shiote, avalish lemhirim babajt. Amishpahamit nagedet lebi kurim kuka trufim, zarbebamim al kheshbona voda, ayali sipur shel ne neched, she afahliota mila vea y shish el sabah, unimtaitzo albasisi omyomi, valanech dozen imtzakahet be thilach nota extremli khayav, aba loyakolo sota voda azot ki umfarnesh el mishpacha, a nechedazel lomathililil mod, uloholo uloh upogyaba atij umeri anilo an shalti toshelah ediduti tatayotze, atam atarutzeh shi duhata u umere anikarega masuwa kleh masula sabasheli. Az mitzadhadzi sipurim shanachnu meodruzim le shabeach, ve ve lehadir, eta vagdola, eta ihhpati utakdolah, eta erchagdol shel kibudorim, bihlal kibudorim, gam kibut saba visafta. U mitsad chenya mekhirim leitim, kashimeod, mpogim ishit, mpogim ishpachit, mpogimbe zugit, mpogimbe horut, mpogimbe parnassa, ve ima ima mekomota me onmod me tochimele, yes deim mause the normative loliot cause. The Bechlet the Vargol Az Mitsadikadani Khoshev Anachno Notnim lohzamagdola La Neched Amitza Khatlugam Gvulot, la Gdirloq Tzat Gvulot, Gvulot Ishim, Shmira Briuchelo, Briutanfeshello Avharam Ayma Mechhirim, Vegam Avanabi Akaditoh, Mamhirshum, V Aimze Mekhir Umehira Ui Behemeth Sihah, Gamin Khapez, Alternativot. Asaba Omer Rak and Jalyet, Mitacheni, Gambitwahle uumi, Vegama Orahim, Meafshershas, Vegama M'Phina Kal Khalit, Mitafsher Mishwa Khere Tapelbu, Uzakukla Mishu Srim Varba Sheva. Nachme'od Lole Shalem, Nachmeod le Atilita Tashlumim ala Albnea Mishbachav, Shashualimal Khot Kibudorim, Alachnoudim Shenif Sekalacha, Shekibud Av Michel Av Klumar, Micha tzarih kodem kolema eta kibudorim, theure betsma, im enlo azaben khayav lechazer alaptahim, khayav le softs dakaim ablohol, az mitzadikzwame on mod i murkevitzahla asotol, u mitsadjeni ishgvulot veh anachnum mistadlim la sotafradot, mistadlim le Khalek Advarim, le Fashette Tadvarim, En Mikredum Mishnew, Anakhnu Ruim Betuch Situatzia Manachon la Sotvarimved Socialit Omeret, Animam Litzalea le Azer, Blem Shechtipul, Apniya Abe Trigger Apniya was a shalit specifit.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

But we have to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 42:17

Anachnumodedim, Abepa mimloyodim al Mali It Palel, Ma Nitpalel shaba uima yelechmin aulam, Mizadehad, Arazona de Shrakloisbol, Umitzadni Koshi me odmodamo, koshi gadol, la gida vaniruteshuelech mikan. Vanach nurbehami me Mishadlim Le Dayek Et Bina Mishpaha bebzautfila, Yeshgam me tfila, She Khubrah be Mizgerta Mizam, Vanah Mishta Dimlomaruta Yahadim Bnam Mishpaha.

SPEAKER_02 42:56

Mishhaw Tselchapesta Mao Khopes.

SPEAKER_01 43:01

No, Bata. Bata, Bata. Ken.

SPEAKER_00 43:11

Tfila Bnamish Pahamita Plimbata Mavituam Sudarit Vidukalma Al Malagid.

SPEAKER_01 43:29

Alazhut Lelavote orim be Velik Lekayem et Mitzwate kibudu Rim be Matsavima Oud Kashim. Vegamita Tfilashakadosh Bahu Kmoshe Amar Yonatan, Vashem Yaseatov Bainav, Khadapar Shanim Omer Sham Anachun Aset Tachitov Shelanu, et Khazak Venit Khazak, Kachmat Mathilat Vilat Yonatan, Khazak Venit Khazak, The Derech Eret, Shadam Tsahlit Khazak, Adam Thachhlasot Chelo, Vashemya Seatov Beinav, Anahuna Nagiya Adam Akom Shanachun Msugalim Lagiailov. Lakadosh Baham Shik Mikan, it's Tov Beyother, it'atov beyoter Avur Avurometupal.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

And you look at the macom shele makuray benadam. Avalhevre, Zazman, Kim Lotta suit Mashlachem Lagid Layom, Zeloy Kre, Uloy, Vihala Fsid Momentum, Veledaber, Le Sheveter Becano, Vidisholo M Ruteshabu, Shifne Monomun Shinim, Yeshafti Mhholate Sartang, Zayaborushi, and the M. Mayruta Shemani Khadim, Bonihtov, Lololo, Imanirzan. Kobba Mhhesih Haiti, Vanitre van himdot. Kikobam Chesik Haiti, Pashutrashma, Itaroshemet, Virashmala Neched, Vidukmai Ratza, Virashma, Virmal Kolhad to Daraba, Velakula Inifredamehim, It's Rakha, as if it's me menu, the lot alone abashalum, Shah Shuishma, Kamato, Kamatodal Khaimshu Natalha, Kamatodal Mashuasa. Italihavotova, Shabeshla Yasmhad, Vaza Martila, Vemali, Venaba, Abashli, it will be machio. Lama Nachulodim Vasha Nashim Shemash to Gameth Kama Vahametupon, Shekule Masu Shikre, Shikikushara Kai Shatiye, Liadam, Shekiku, Mbuhrimi Milamut. So Zemashana Khutzim Lasan.

SPEAKER_01 49:56

The Ameserze Sabah safta sinu ta kol kedele tapel ba mbabait. Anachnu unimsah imitam kamashioter, keholza mitaf. Anakhnu simitatovyoteravuram, gami phina kalkalit, gami phinah fizit, gami phinah nafit, gamba balivui ba shihiyayaitam, call dvarimaele ofrim the messer lomiluli, overla iladim, vanihushevelekmea bracha, she aturahum merit le mani arichun yamecha, thevarma mashikudi, kenal al mitzvatki budu rimanichunmechuta yamimaele, the gam arichut be muvanchel arucha, be muvanchel bri'ut, be mwanchel briut nafchit, the gambe muvanchel arichuthi lorak technichanim sheladam specifi baulam, elabuvda, sh banav uvnevanav, machzikimetavarze, uhava saftaimakamea, shela shela mishpacha, the as gulazut, kmomezuzam, mashu sh nos imilav een atov bioter shailadimusima voruhem, the mashu verla iladim shele, ni wepame varech, etbina mishpaha, metaplimanonem, be met azhuta kdulazut, sha' te mta primani machelhem shebeshebin nachat, weut kmashatem khalim la tnichem etam admeavesrim, shailadim shal khimir uwe vitulhemeta meitav.

SPEAKER_00 51:33

Masha ni uzala syamito zebe meta inyan shel masha ravama anakhnuhabdimata orum shalanu Aurumshal khibdu ta' rumshelayim, Anachwainwedze, the shir shiret, the shirsherit shil the mizamnim tzapu, bishilazor, mizam nim tzala zo, nachnupo, rava vetsutiali, vhaanim odma minal, bavodatsevet azot. Bakwaze, andze osse etamivgash, yutel yutel khaim, the lorakalha, the zelogu rakali, the mashu shel shiluv, zenotenmakom, leptihud zenoten makom, leavana, shel beymet, ma khaim the maum med lefaninu, andahmupo, beymet, lecol, asherutu bekinam, a sherutu baymetakumanasim, benissumbarba la bainvishmon shot la not, lefamim zekzat pohot, kanachmusakol, a sararabanim, famim zekzater, nahu sachakol asarabanim, ve sheshov dotyot, azechzat meatger, krim trofim od. Avalaniashavti, erfuot, shaalif nasha ba chilit mala, gamarty shaati le ligmor et arahanot when he nastilaker and more the cut. Um and you said zerbe. Warbeater Tombi many bainyan.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Today but uh Roshan Marachali be stream, Rav Randau, Rav Barach Shilta, Tarawa.