#980 פרופ' אהוד מנור | "שטחים תמורת שלום" - השקר שהומצא לפני יותר ממאה שנה פרק 1/6

פרק 1 מתוך מיני-סדרה היסטורית עם פרופ' אהוד מנור
בפרק זה של הפודקאסט עו"ד תמיר דורטל מארח את פרופ' אהוד מנור לשיחה על תולדות "ההונאה העצמית" של התנועה הציונית וגישתה המינימליסטית למרחב הארץ-ישראלי. 
במהלך הפרק אנו צוללים אל שורשי ההיסטוריה הציונית ובוחנים כיצד מהרגע הראשון, מנהיגי הציונות נקטו באסטרטגיה של צמצום ו"הנמכת פרופיל" במטרה להרגיע את דעתם של השכנים הערבים והמעצמות הבינלאומיות. פרופ' מנור סוקר את דרכה של הציונות החל מתוכנית אל-עריש וקפריסין של בנימין זאב הרצל, שחיפש פתרונות נוחים מול האימפריה העות'מאנית, דרך הפוליטיקה המסובכת של מלחמת העולם הראשונה, ועד הניסוח המכווץ והמינימליסטי של הצהרת בלפור. 
השיחה מעלה שאלות פתוחות ומרתקות: מדוע מנהיגים בסדר גודל של חיים ויצמן הסכימו לויתורים מרחיקי לכת כבר בתחילת הדרך? מה באמת כלל ההסכם ההיסטורי והנשכח בין ויצמן לאמיר פייסל ב-1919, וכיצד הוא שירטט מפה מקסימליסטית של ארץ ישראל משני עברי הירדן? ומדוע הגישה שניסתה להעלים עין מאיומים או "לקנות שקט" מתפוצצת לנו בפנים פעם אחר פעם, מהספר הלבן של 1922, דרך מאורעות תרפ"ט ועד ימינו אנו?
בפרק זה תשמעו ניתוח היסטורי לא שגרתי שמנפץ מיתוסים מוכרים. תלמדו כיצד ויכוחים פנימיים בין זאב ז'בוטינסקי לבין ראשי תנועת העבודה עיצבו את גבולות המדינה, ותבינו מדוע תפיסת ה"שטחים תמורת שלום" אינה המצאה של העשורים האחרונים, אלא סימפטום של תפיסת עולם שורשית. זהו פרק חובה לכל מי שרוצה להבין את זרמי העומק האמיתיים של הסכסוך במזרח התיכון ואת הפסיכולוגיה שמאחורי ההחלטות המדיניות של ישראל.

00:00:00 אסטרטגיית ההונאה העצמית של הציונות
00:04:33 הרצל, אוגנדה ותוכנית אל עריש
00:09:55 הגישה המינימליסטית מול האימפריה העות'מאנית
00:15:24 מלחמת העולם הראשונה ופירוק האימפריה
00:20:46 הניסוח השנוי במחלוקת של הצהרת בלפור
00:26:22 דיאלקטיקה של התיישבות מול הסכמה בינלאומית
00:31:00 הסכסוך נולד מצד אחד בלבד
00:36:00 אנטי-ציונות יהודית והשפעתה על בריטניה
00:41:40 המעבר של ויצמן למקסימליזם טריטוריאלי
00:48:16 מפת 1919 וחזון חישמול ארץ ישראל
00:54:10 האם באמת הייתה בעיה דמוגרפית?
01:05:40 קריאת סעיפי הסכם פייסל-ויצמן
01:14:40 מדוע ההסכם עם הערבים קרס?
01:21:20 הספר הלבן של 1922 קורע את המפה
01:28:44 המחלוקת בין ז'בוטינסקי לתנועת העבודה (פרימיום)

#פודקאסט #על_המשמעות

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:14

We have to do this.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

Dogma for the same thing, the Uganda. Diplomatic, she took the Imperial Botzman, the Imperial British. Aval, project, territorialism, and Shall Herzel and the Uganda Lomida, and territorialism, and the people who are in the world, and the Mamas Basiva, Meot, Mem Shimut, and Mamash Berg, and the other thing. But Sarlicha, can a Matzbiya Walker Frisino Larish? Okay, Herzelomer Mamesh Azov Maxim Tochnit Maximali. Similar Motatese, can the Sukhonaat Smith, Armaz Israel, Belphantchan Vichy, Epischelosh Berech Madavare, Azlama, Meroch Israel, Mereba Invitation, Mithir Simle Israel, Meaardin, Smaller, can Smut Mayarden Marava, Mr. Kellyphone, can as Mbrim Baarbesha, Inishankvan Shivimbush Munachus, as it's an Hamishim Vacha, or Shivimvish Munachus met a Mapashl, Achbaim Vishva, Mapashlach Baimitesh, but Savirim Kazmabachel Telvelo, Omerish, Ulech Otsatzmola, Yotzebich Lalmit Khmer at Israel, Eforushalim Bassipurza, Efor Chavron Bassipurza, Efor Azov Lotovla Nuhevron, because the term, if you need. uh uh bakasha tsarat balfur omeret she erat israel baita uh lumize congressly bait lumi lama yudishpaam at balfur the mate amim eret israel yeah bait lumis lama yudnosaon katuf israel israel yakum bait lumi then as at zinikanim loit paluli roachamu chlushim ishkvar brit himlobinud muraumrim and shivim mataimelfudimber israel we ton davar comed viflagot leserbenyude revisionistiam teatron veshlemakolem sharkimiteudim zionimoteshi kiblow to the varza lobambilima elov kibl to the vase and she bridge along so that lots of lotsh beti mam shimita cav shall khadam can shakhutim la silita ya dut velota yudim any terminimalism is kimza ya dutil ane bavadaishalo and kibutznik nashakalifa can the merit supposed and a silita yadut velota yudim kataberimalze mates babomerat and a muze only had call you dimla gia etcara or kizabai shlam a com she do America Poberimata Nana Banetani Benetania Nevrim islam because the Hagnehmad okay I do Kemet and the Holzolith Bolelba Galut. Safari museum because the museum patuze on the video Marshall Therese Safari the Gamish Pilb Garcham. But Losha Losh Dual Baker, Caspe Luka, Kasperuka Kupaschnor Galut Vim Ksefim, Shnorim Osim Lagalot M Kupakula Ken Ivan Del Katan, can so come aliva and by Anilo, Lonivalmis and the Makev Vakesh Kisafisim or Maske Miffalim Maskea Kibutzim was bezotomut and moshkeyfall and socialist, dialectica, Marxav Khalan dialectica before the stream, is it the same thing as we get a hack smith can be very interesting, or Stalin, America, Argentina, because the American American Bemeley, Malach, or Vivim, okay, or Khovot, it's a midim tsmam Musarit Malkulam, as I said, Bagiranak, Anitzbat and you said analogia shall shall it chamuchinvishmo, but kufashal Pia Klalim shallabrit him a sur lity, Vasura Domot Vinem itish, or Khatzan Kudot Banegib, October by Invishesh, can call it Varimalo mlotkinim, kudatma bachilla shalit, Iom Shalitz m dinati sell or letter duke Minalmiker Kaisrael, the Shalita Mitial, Columsachim, Bazi Udim Shomrim Shalit Shalit, Be Shloshim Vishmones Abritim, Minalmiker Kesel, or Shutmaker, Kahoch, and Ilomkabeleta Kfiazot, the Suc Maximalism, Sioni. Minimalism Reboni, minimalism beachashunes, Nova Akvarak Mitsadhad, and Busimetri, Ken Kolocharavim Macpedim, Kemisakimitano, Zesibata Sikso, and the Mm, Loba, Mishor Gizil, Mishor Datil, Shum Mshorh, and Lochaser Makom, and Baakal Khalit, and Shum in Lonishul, the Klum and Paklum, Sirov, La Rayana Tioniapsis, Shudim, Shlemkesh, Larry Israel, Shemutesh, Yame Kikid, Shabon Lathar Balfour, as she mister Klimal, Maximalism, Amuvan, Shalanosah, then Bite Lumis Lama Yudi, Lumat and Nossa Israel, Ya Kumba Lumi, Ya Kumuzon, Ya Kum Vazit Gelganian Slamousone, Khosrim Maman Kuda, Zebui, then I was like, Weitzman, Lomet Lom, Albis, Territorial Medini, Liz Dotima, Ma'amatia Germany, I'm not going to be able to do it, you can't say that, we have to be a very good thing, I'm not sure if neither, I think, look for him, I'm not sure, I'm not sure, you can brand asupemu, American, where you need to America, so, Weitzman, Belief Weissia, X, Vum Kabel Hatil KX, can as as minimalists, and we have to be able to get the other thing, but we have to be able to lamish him, Lok Delim Ktenim, Mgershim Berchlish, Girush Telav, Akasagadol, Akasa Gadol, Kenegidnili Hutzmi, Knaot, Vodmail Bneadam, Gamle Yudim, Yeshpo Met Khasha Miti, Shima Turkim, Musimla Ishiva Yud, Mashular Mani, Hola Vin, Tweitzman, Oilve, Lok, Another, Gamnot, Anim Anton, Any, Anim Vaterlicha, Khay, the Varchan Liv Last, Bereal Ho, Big Lal, Amashbe, Shahunim Tzimb, Masber Midini, Shiva October, We Mshecha Vicwa Pimaben Nashim She Loan Titashem Achrim, Kurum Shia Shi Shab October, Nim Sha Lok Shalom Duklum, Mashab October Shem Beat Set, Msheim, Mutam Tezot Shall Epha Pitokon Amidini, We Fam Al Khamedini, We Shalom Be Kwa, Vachus Kwah, Vachinal Venal, As Maphinazot Aninotzl Pto, Le Weitzman Belch Vas Antelo Pto, Alhat Kamav Shav Never Perikab, Alhat Kamav, Shakh Tzad Balfour, Signona Mod Minimalist, Minimalism Od Schneel Menti, Shivatim Eta Minimalism, She Lobasmat, Lobashmat Weitzman, U Bakh, Loh Schmat, Ken U Bakh, Elu Shu Tmu De Mulam Batzbal Farkivim, Baitel Lumis, Minimalism, Nusaf, Shaomer She Shuy Mr Mim, Loti Pagana, Sheila Rim Lan Khat, Joh, She Hakak Sheril, Tafar Lanchev Chanch Time, But the Varufsham, She Mov, Loliberal, Bash, Beth, Wimitzav Lotov Mapinazot, Katov Shama, She's the Well, Ms, Bite Lum Beatis, Rachim Shell, So Anglia, Dina Liberal Mather, She's Dafka, Balfour Begadol, Antich, You Dim Shrugh, I'm Ud America, Jewish Voice For Peace, Anashima, Ish L'Hour's What Doctor, Anti Z Anti Z New York, Shiva, Forward's Mm Ah, Forward Yom, Azure Shaluto Yudim Azavano Bund America, So Khainian Bund, Socialist, Socialist Poland, Socialistm Dovre Rusit, Socialist Finit, Socialist Turkit, Anakh Socialist, Lou Mid, Nishakis, Ptuch, Pachot Mund Map, First Mim Bud, Munash, Congress, Rubam, Anachimut Bekosik Rekhovine Arim, Comin' Sokolov, Dolim, Herzl, Oweitzman, Bengoreon Vel Jabutinsky, Then Baza Mart, Ma Lama Leiton Anti Zion, Socialist Mavericov, Bamikreat Davar Miguch, Bamikre, Davar D Miguch, Tavani Anglia, Rat Esim, Masbeer, Yudim B Anglia, Anti Tim, Ailem Khashovithov Weitzmann Velosif Ba Tsaras Seg, Mod Be Fuk Pak, Mkivan Shikon Cola Nossa Minimalist, Mashov Khovata Al Ama Yude, Atsara Lawyer Tirat Medina, Zeh Khagigu Bharat Shanim, Balfour, Noran, Mihag, Yudim Shal, We Banush Vim, With Stay Dubene, Banumarethino, Klumar, Antionim B Ange, Holy Holy Mm, Sheked, Tap Sad, Kabela Tsar, Homin Bedish, Weitz Minim Minimalist Mirzim, Minimalism Balfour, Bel Chan, Khamma, Shim Lautin Maximalist But Diplomat Dem Africa, Anti Bare Balfour Kabla, Call Marechita, Yemen, So, Zaza, Faza Hat, Zaza, Hames Malo, I'm Anti Harif, Stam Antitione, I'm Antitione Of Lot, Tione, Biltitone, Muchanim, Such Pro, Mukbal, Zaza, Mapinazot, Weitzman Gosh, Adla Milch, Anti, Muchanimazi, Shalim, Match, Kovan, Mm, Mikapolit, Mem, Shalim, Matter T Mr Shaw, Lama, Kamet, His Gas, Kama, Lashev, You D, So, 11 Damak Then, Was Mr Berg American His Makal Mod Shout, Masha Tavani Sims, Tis Kitch, Econito Tosi Po, I Tali, With Maximalism, Pogesh Ravim, Bakhtana, Berech P Shiva, Israel, Liz Mesperim, Fisal Fusan, Pogesh, Lobitaut Lok Mm, Game Beat Sheikamhi, Kibla Boost, Kalam, Shaykh, Swarim Shlamim, Beztual Imperial Mann, Mimot Aravi, Al Khul Universit Ba Mahrav, Lumut, Bazam Kazu, Khailit Mitsai, Mimit Masha Yom, Surrey Van, Iraq Bed, Bolo Khalud, It Park Imperial Mannit, Biofit Sikuy, I Ter Gadol Shalit Latzle, Midai Met Kamu Shala Lumutaravit, Bitman Have He's Lumio Herod, Wilson, Yes, Lumutaravit, Zwarchal Arba, Kamuvan Zab, Shabemele A Yubai, Gaming Malumutar Vit Ms, Melon Jose, Legitimat Lumut, Ribonut Lumit, Lumut Your Lumutar, Mission Ms Lumit Before She's a Diplomat Mul Faisal, Be Menu, Batomeno, Mitsia, Matam, Bio'Matam, Anil, Matam, Mukbal Bemet Mukbal, Mukbal, Animodes, Kulanu Ken, Shannon Dimbes, Animod Debes Man, Belicov Lilmo, Animal's Maketam Suyama, Shalom, Lemasali Netom Kutmabach Interessant, as Machinazot, the scheme audio termis gaffe element, Mayesh Bobashut, Shell Hadadiut, Ben Shak North Lumut, Shom Dot Vifne Perik Hadash Ba Toldochila Amim Shemirskim Ayodim, Mishekam, Tsionim, Yachzularzam, ity Shwub and Tsefuf Mazi Teshov Tzufuf, Zach Masha Horimayo, Ken Mishansa Tzuhanya Nadashkeron, Zhenikrite Shwutzfufa, Shegidatfufa, Shalas, Ken Ech Bonim, Abonim, Lagova, Ken Lagova Lokshov, Coloniana, Diyu, Yespo, Yeshpo, Ken Yespo, Eshpo Bayot, Aval Bhulhutin, Shikshahum, Belf Chanov Vichy, Yesh, Berech Baritz, Nagidim, Hu Sufrim, Gamta Yudim Shazuma Girush, Velushuldub and Timeal, Shikal Nagel, Meaf Yudim, as a Vitzman Mitsik Maximalism, Tokim Shah, Shlosha Million, as do the math, the May Eleph Bishana, Olim, Zo Difner Vishna, and the Mr. As Medub, al Talih, Shore, Shitwood, Shav Chan V, Malay Mabriti, Mr D, Meta Gvulot, Shilh Israel, and the Mr. Mesh Mishlach, and the people who are not a good thing. So makorvan, Manieno Tanumakor Besurio, Manieno Tanumakura Biarden, Alpi, Aigon, Shilfchan of the Chistre, Shaigayon as Lua Yashimanotanu Macorobel Van Besovyerden, Masibotch Manotanu Ayomakor Besorvobyden, sheze Zirochemit Patahat Oynut, Maasit, Achfanim, Tilim, Mechablim, Whatever A Vachot, Elabelef Chan of the Chaire, Zabitoh, Istaklot, Hyuvit, Orchim Livnot, The Az Mapazot, Mathila, Mea Litani, Alpegir Sahish, Anulak Palbatoh, Melitani, Mawali, Meta Knimutanupo, Azme Awali, Mizracha, Takfu Takhermon Kullo, Zloh Hermon Suri, Hermon Zerai Nam Slam Dina Loh, Cola Khermon, Vazir Dim, Pashot Bekav, Pachot, Baem, Tabena Mesilah Jazit, Shah Messilah Belf Chandu Hamesh, Shlisayala Olaim a Muslim La Regal, Lagia B Kalut, we be taken Lemeka, Kashemod Largenita Masotal, Badir, as a Mesilazot Ratza Mitsaphon, Ledaum, Zochanian me Damesik Lakivun Khatsiy Arav, you read it, Fatilat, was Ola Ba Kav Bemin Kavalach Sonikaze, Kav Shri, Showlech me ever cava ben lumi, shikwash ben amitsrim letterduk been a Britim lebenot money Britim Show me Mitzraamish Lakzik Talat Switz, Omek strategy Let Sweet, as Kovimita Gvul, Shakom Kirimoto K Gvul shall Elf Chand Vishesh, can Aval a Kav Amapast Elf Chand Vichysa, Olechet Me Everlon, Olechet Ma'ravalo, Letoh Sinay. Let's reva missinay, o mashu kazel kiwun el arich, shell herzil, can machinazo tenhu grimtapina emerzel with machnisimet el arish betwe potential pituah, kalkali, my corona geography, shella, shla geographical, but call me corota mim. Ham should maim, maud, ma la matashua tipsit, canum, the mart. And we have to be able to use the money. Zaray. Mazanach, Rotenberg, small poet, it's anav or leaf namelhama, six crayon, sip small, as ubes of network. Okay, as heitzman, he called my tesh, the cot of Khnout, me minimalism, but maximalism, we mwuchad varim shall sofhemate, maximalism was a ball, gambe kefamapazot, me awali, derhala, jazit, adlachirmon, the gami my gayana shlechmelit, ki blihishmule, blitasia, ifaliklot, shlo sha million toklohim shana, khosim kolosmanaz, and maximaliz. Mbaya, mashikurayom, zadavahimuza, umriga, vim, maitam, maitam chhaim, and alagit alegita muvan me lav, velakananegita muvan me lov, kilhora, imtama, muvan me lav, talomu legidut, well mikivan shrakni melhash muvan melav tata gidut, mechanak alkalit, netto, kalkalit demographit, hevratit mash biduk mash fai salud, we mashikola via agun, shalagid the bikolram you dare, uh the kolram, atyanuti bracha. Bonisekel rak devarhadam, remlanu rega baya demographite, cole masha ni corello or na smit, my shek po misho her, nitamid mdwaker makiru t and refame. So and the shimsha is so heavitil itilma com shikotvima mari manashim shapogesh nashim shobimka, shim shovima hered, andashimsh make mim tfisa shekola Nicole Zikola Tfisamusarichelem Shonal Famimimbofan Kitsonema Matfisasheli, Gabe Mauta Adam, Legabe Echmichal Modedim canit Lehal Eagle, ala ala Shiramfusam John Lennon, and a shimshamash Maliwuta, like any pogdusha tosh, and machikmen or muzikaela bigalshani a tezash mufrakhetl khalutin, the mayal al rifion sekil, afuch, meganet, visash John Lennon, and fascist, or gazan orticals. As an imsequa film, could mabat mazha film, could m'bata demographite. Then massipur eretisrael uh, mm come shell tmutat, sheldot ebalida. So the mzai eretisrael, the goralashambish vede zika, butilata mea chas, colo alamzikha, beyapan kolmako, okay, atmurah at dirash viatinud, uhzibu, simchalem, kawanish gamro fimaravim, the lorak shutimus kimzum, if shall it kaheshlafda, shatmura at sumazot ba uh siquiaim shla yelo d'hens the funk. The asma prhinasot sholim, reggas my call sababam, could ma bat kalkalit revertit, elash Matsavam you terov ma share benitunim, she poor some ter Tomash Italia Bitza. Zootlow meat, Zootlow meat, uh, I'm Islam, I'm Islam politics. Look, I'm not a machine. She's a little bit. No, no, she's a good thing. Yes, the shit. Shove, but uh, uh optimic and Europe. And then we're gonna go to the house, they are not a good thing. Apartheid, she shall shot Aravi, can at Surashum Dere A Aravi, come, dear, Mzima Sikta Aravi. And politics, and we're not going to be able to regain, and I'm not sure. Can Lunamon Vishmo? So the Malda, Dinah, million kilometres, Australia, Neft V Hormuz, and Mishtam Shim Bekhofil, let Hamesh, Rotzkimba Anasim B Ritzwataz. As Machinazat Elefchan the Chai Lokov, Shibetzemata ani ba Banku, anda, siya maximalism at Sioni. Shimen Uraka mapa, Amapa, Khishmula Aarets, Aratzonatovim Aravim, Regat, Ludiban al Faisal Vizman, Mikura.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:25

Faisal Vatman Maskimalamapa.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:30

Maskimimbenem alkalak alkohola rayon aze Yudim, Khosrim Larzam, Vishal Lumyuta Aravit, Mid Gabeshet, Bemakbil, Kshen Betsim by territorialit ki n byat territorialit, and byakalkalit ki en biakalkalit, and by amedinit ki en byamedinit, notar ze sneam on taoze, Arbemo Dana Shim, Shimurganim, Bishneamim, Im Khalukot Mishneh, Ken Shilta Tim, Hilonim Lom Shane Taozeikanti, Begado Madubaral Shneam, Mama Aravi, Bama Yudi, Sheim Lasot, Tadama Bonish Muna Slemenu, Zesk Zhema Vrahma Rishon, Shah Taoze Biduk Meshana, Otishana Lifne, The Bidukatoon, Masha Shahim, Murachalom, Le Fanodim, Shebo, Amarokaim, Roy Israel, Roim Bash Pula, Saudi, Saudi, Amarokaim, Kimat, Sada Elementum, and the United States. Okay. Okay, Versailles. So, you can see the same thing. White's many dead. Uloh Ullo No Lad Ulono Lat Belfidinit. Ulono laad Belfchown Vichasik and Lif Chan of Dishweiz. Can as gear Dugmash Kulam Yudim Lafnota and Kudodne Lomufna Kudabolet by Storchlessuk. So I mean the Gourmim, a consulum, a consular, okay, and Turkimat, we have a reform. As Basov Mani Shash, Hever Alumim, local, Bamarik, the Germania, Russia. Now, the Belphandi Chai Mits of Faser, Belphant the Chai, Gamfaisal, the Gamweitzman, Shulhimla, Shoton Tov, Shiloh, Lhana Maximalism Bampa, Lechana Maximalism Bishmule Aritz, Hishmul Arec a Masmoch and Masha Martin, Shutzimla, the Maya L Fishana, Local Elm, Keshman Gidul T V, which gidul shlah vim. But we have to be able to talk, modernization, modernization, modernization administrative. Modernization, expression, the modernization, as Aritza Luvaz, and Zubur Shaw Tonight, then omedically, Molchimit Tabot, Moshematik, Biscooter Fua, Mulchimit Rebecca, Colzmanish More, Be Par Demography Mullah Yudim. Shamachum, Bishum Keshle Maseshaya Venigmar, Gam Gabey Lefch, Betoha or Lama Aravi, Darkam Shlaim. Biduk, Shell Reformat, Baula Vishu, Aravi Lam Koma Ra Uilo, Alpha Dimuya Smi, civilization, orimah, Klepe Connel Kniya Ruchanit, Arbutit, Rayonit, you name it Lamarav.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:45

And you have autonomous. Okay, Biglash of Fatim, or Big Lal Shia Muslim befit Nagdu, Shakim, Ba Halika Hosh, and the M. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:03

Okay. So Alreka Maximalism Movehack will have channels with a schema, Mapa Gisha, Diburim, Diplomatia, and the other thing. Should we call vizuality? Avalush about the Yudim Akbarak, Rotenberg, and the other thing. Baagdula Mimshalat Svay Shirova, Ktsinim Khirim, M anticiunim Velaken Batem Kivan Gishatam, Khomeirimatasipel Mitzal, Shra Tab Khazut by M Tfisatolam, Tamaletot, Alpia Parjanut Sha Vita Mabite. As Shilton Abritti offer me, Shilton Tweil, Shilton Ezrachi, Apa mim, plomba, shlaw, and then we have to have a mandate, and the other thing is that the same story, and we have to do it. But we have to be able to get the first time at Dalla, Plateam, we have to be in Bukraina, Mapogrom, and Bukraina Belief, and the people who are not going to be able to do it. So Jabutinski Mam Shikla, Shabali de Bithever, Imperial British, and the other thing. Because the political political parliament, lobby, it's not a very good thing. Can we have been a little bit more than a little bit of a good thing?