על המשמעות - ערוץ פילוסופי פוליטי בהנחיית תמיר דורטל

על הכותרות #23 | "המפקדים בשטח מפחדים לקחת אחריות" - מי באמת אשם במחדל הפקודות בצה"ל?

תמיר דורטל Season 4 Episode 23

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0:00 | 50:22

בפרק זה של הפודקאסט עו"ד תמיר דורטל מארח את טל קופל לשיחה על הדינמיקה הפוליטית בישראל, משבר ההנהגה וסוגיות בוערות בביטחון הפנים והחוץ.
הפרק נפתח בניתוח עמוק של הזירה הפוליטית לקראת אפשרות של בחירות. טל קופל סוקר את משמעות הפריימריז בליכוד, מנתח את שיטת השריונים של נתניהו, ומסביר מדוע לדעתו הליכוד מכוון לממשלת אחדות רחבה. הדיון מתפתח לבחינת שיטת הבחירות בישראל, כאשר עולה הצעה נועזת: הורדת אחוז החסימה למנדט אחד ויצירת הסכמי עודפים רב-מפלגתיים. האם זהו הפתרון שימנע סחטנות פוליטית של מפלגות קטנות ויחזיר את היציבות לממשלה?
בחלקו השני של הראיון, השיחה מקבלת תפנית חדה אל עבר המציאות הביטחונית הקשה ביהודה ושומרון. בעקבות הפיגועים האחרונים, השניים דנים בשאלות מוסריות ומבצעיות סביב "הוראות פתיחה באש". קופל מציג ביקורת חריפה על תרבות של פחד בקרב לוחמים ומפקדים מפני המערכת המשפטית והפרקליטות הצבאית. הוא מנתח את ההבדל הקריטי שבין "נוהל מעצר חשוד" לבין פעולה נגד איום מיידי, ושואל מדוע לוחמים חוששים לירות גם כשהם עומדים מול סכנת חיים. 
לקראת סיום, הפרק מעלה את סיפורו של טל דרדיק, אשר שובת רעב במחאה על השימוש הגובר בצווים ומעצרים מנהליים נגד פעילי התיישבות. דרך המקרה שלו, נשאלת השאלה האם מדינת ישראל מפעילה אמצעים דורסניים ללא משפט צדק, ומהו המחיר שמשלמים החלוצים בשטח. 
האזינו לפרק כדי להבין את הכוחות הנסתרים שמניעים את המערכת הפוליטית, לשמוע ניתוח נוקב על מוסר הלחימה של צה"ל, ולגלות מדוע ההתיישבות ביהודה ושומרון ניצבת במוקד של מאבק משפטי-מנהלי דרמטי.

00:00:00 שיחת פתיחה ועדכונים קלילים
00:01:56 משמעות הפריימריז והשריונים במפלגת הליכוד
00:06:59 שיקולי הנאמנות של נתניהו מול בנט
00:08:00 ממשלת אחדות רחבה כיעד פוליטי הבא
00:14:31 הפתרון לסחטנות: הורדת אחוז החסימה
00:19:53 כשל התמריצים של הליכוד ומפלגות השמאל
00:24:25 הטרגדיה והעיוורון של מחנה השמאל הישראלי
00:27:37 הפיגוע בשומרון וביקורת על אברהם סתיו
00:30:18 הפחד מנוהל פתיחה באש והפרקליטות הצבאית
00:36:18 טשטוש הגבולות בין אזרח תמים למחבל פלסטיני
00:45:26 אחריות המפקדים לנסח הוראות ברורות ללוחמים
00:48:30 המאבק במעצרים המנהליים וסיפורו של טל דרדיק (פרימיום)

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Boa boa techa, media vita kibu, dimkva. She has hamburger, Kahala who had booked.

SPEAKER_00

Ulami Sadahbura Solomon Thahakim Shahot, Lahar, Mal Shiva Shanim, Ebhirot, Yesh Koran Shelaskarim, Machun Segumni Toshlaskarim, E Polimar Vimasim Leosh, Lelochum, Vishuvaraya, Tulachatotelba Shalloshimach, Vichlithemikan Su polimulagsupolim, Kofimle Malaroch, Shikansu, Mishuma Zaklata, Klalitch, Shalachlit of the M. Kofimpolim, Kumoshikafu Melafiphonim Zhant.

SPEAKER_01

Toveshmu, Shirazak Verderb's Mamba Ms Dronoch, Mimcomla Lechitzakov, Im Netanyao, Lefi Skarim, Nedaberaz, Chef Charles Mochalem, Mevi Bena, Srim Vesheva, Lashlim Vishnaim and I'm not sure. Lo reggae Lama Ledati Primary is Balikod, Michael Timetz Birtaana Shell.

SPEAKER_00

Mitsari Beddin.

SPEAKER_01

Of Dotla Mabot. Come shirunin? Tisha. Tisha Tisha Shirunim, Yeshla Nuaklatagam Shekhakim Hluitmoded Bam Khot.

SPEAKER_00

Anishato. Kada Shav Mish Baum Baumam Khosot, Mhozala, Machose, Ze and Shipo, Amita Levi, Danilo's, uh, Hadashim. Law Marty is a Hakra to Vim Gilmeme Hosot. A Hidapotaji Kochevit the Yet Lichabarishimartit, the Talagotlip Avalia Stadlo Almechot, Al Shiryun Shelly.

SPEAKER_01

Ah, Danilus Bhall Mhozotim, Shiryunolim.

SPEAKER_00

Cola Ketim Shirunim Shell Isha Ole Neche Colmine Kaele, Zechla Zrim Dam Khalash, Hakimchanim, Ichanu, e itmudubachotnim Hak, etem Khotle Gambre?

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SPEAKER_00

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SPEAKER_00

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SPEAKER_01

Bottas burly matam rich and me flagak dolavika yemet. Thefkashil Gdola. Matkashatamritz, Shall me flagak, dolavika yemet, leveteral mandatim. Longity Anafkamina.

SPEAKER_00

The law of veteran mandatim. Lefek. The version of schema of the film Yeah, the Roman version, schemod of film. No. Ki Imi Law Veret.

SPEAKER_01

Avalimi of Veret Ali could me Vateral Mandatim.

SPEAKER_00

Long, the schemoda yesh nest to gim shall scheme of film. Schemoda film the bench to be flagot. Look at Flagat.

SPEAKER_01

Beside the anime kid, the Avalanime the Verlze Shiksha Machne Slackness Hendel, the Feglin, the Lomchanimi. Tatsubiala, Ani Over, Ani Khazak, Ani Shmogaleka.

SPEAKER_00

Lama, Lama, Lama, Shnia, Lama, Elkit Imahim Talolechlap, Shne, Tso Dexika, Tudexh, Karega, Netanyahu, Shelimto Shelal Feglin, Vatalobi. Anilomita Sekbe Perurim Zelosa. Cole Cole, Le Chavez, Yotercolot, the Bethem Metzantem et Behad Kam Flagot, Hakwa Hayakasi, Shlemflag Dolot, Le Ummat Habinuniot, who Gadelpikama Vikama, Baromi Rosha Memshallah, Berega Sheshlecha, Srimandatim, Attabonta Kalfem Cole Perurim, At a Holosov Kwa Perurim, Villa Shlim Shishimvachat, Villa Perurima Le Enkoach, Hayom La Perurima Shinikrimi, Flagotchim, Shil Shishava Baman Datim, Vemfogot Khazakot, Ech Benet, Tudema, Azov, Azovst. Anni Anni Nikede Kilakni Tuach Tamuritim with anniomod ofamritim. Vel Echoliot, Shadaphames, Shema, Susof Alal Arba Mandatima Garwazi. Ech ech ech ech ech ech lobic shoot Sarabitachon. Ech Tabid, Mapai, Vem flagota, Kvotahara, Velikudna knut Sarabiton L Mish Balaim, Eth Tarachutz and Mish Balaim, Velo, Nichneu, Lashtanush Flagotakta Not. Ecke Holiot.

SPEAKER_01

No, Masoratit eh uh Sarakutz, Sarabitachon, Roshala, Shlosh, V Sarah's Lich, Shloshit of Kidali Bachutz Mosham Shalla, Masoratita Yum Shuahimla Miflaga, Agdolabiot. Nachhone, Masoratit and Kulama Yubit Ohagushveaza Yatanisayon, Shelancha Smolamishihimik Daleba Toshwe Migdal Bavel, she Birikuita Mflagotag Dolot Bitishimbested.

SPEAKER_00

Wallachnaim. Walla Wallachna Uchpal. The Azhuvukpa Le Arba Karalutali Harsani, Bestrimushimach Honot, Mishimbishim Vadayom, Khusimah Varmy Mandatikad, Le Arba, and Sunnichal, Tatabell and Sunnichal, Tach Lorin, Thosima Hazar, Bay Lamlo Adlatzleh, Shumem Shakiv, Bemetu Vitamin, Gamot off the record, the bar team and shimsheaver, the Khazimam Belpine Vamesra, Gam Liberman, the Gam Machim, Bemet Gum off the record, and beemete a minu, she's the birth she luch and flagottak the lot. As I'm tipshim, the honour Professor Uman, again a knesset, again Mamash, a Gagarat of Mobu Zuha Pas Nobel, La Trum has a specific, Amalam Tech was the Kwa, the Ori Takwah Zbirlam Bavada Hokishpat, Let Tara Rochelle, Professor Oman Vetsa Reno, Velitzarenu, loyal goof lobby, she dad was a follow up Stanley Barbak Nelset, Pambe, Zeloma speakers, Veleka Drehkamaki is a goof lobby, she hollow sort of shivish. Ooh, as a goofy goof, a guofniker votes no Hamitu Kadash, Vahnu Mamasimothe, Lavovit Mok Banu, Kadeshnuhal, Gam Lachilka Pilot, Lekwa Hitervot, the North Lobby, Kmolobitish Mitesha, Nikavishan, speak during the shit, Adam Hirotabo.

SPEAKER_01

Sterve is the official Matia Gam Magamitzikba, the gamma repetitone, local sort.

SPEAKER_00

Ifshaari, Lolchim Ranot Dolimus. Come over that kids about me, after subsidy, the Tachboratamonim, and Mamuzar, Havana Malayson, and the Lord.

SPEAKER_01

But we're not going to be able to do it, but we have to do it. Avalimuamut. Ma Shnia, Shnia. Bahus Deku Beze, Avalbizman Tovekla Roguti. Yeshpun Metach Messiam. Vuwa Yoma Dailoch Zemukhiah. Ha Mifletzed Wegershaim. Ha nukba Harotseh, Uloh, Shoneme Aykarbe Ezemuvan, Mechaklai, Ha Limuta Palestini Aravit, Hibrid. Cole Araviba Mikraze Sheikh Shubetem Rosh Kila, Mikfara to Merosha Kila, say Roshel, Ahiparhia Varian Bebir.

SPEAKER_00

Afakhamlo kirchuh Palestini Mikil.

SPEAKER_01

Az ofta y kado. And the other. Ainyanu shia mefagea falestini, utamid, hibridi, machaklaya halfmi pesha zutomeret, yeshpo, be offen kavua, anashim shembozmanit kafimi pesha mim, ba potential. Veata lokal ka kudahlit mudedim ze bamarheta mishpatanit. Kia plili omer oshta khafmi pesha, ošta, oshta shem.

SPEAKER_00

Kilo oso flalta, osofidu kamilaf. Hayim if chala znualmat, o aim z ye mea. Achavraino z korebhaba bita. Boni regga Amerikaim. Amerikaim, shotter omerlecha, shteimalhege, vata losam steamelga targa, atarrega, umerhatarishanot ma ma tafa fort. Ensteimel hege ishieri la roch. Sho ter lochayal, batamilkam te, transfar, do tero terrothab, andta Texas, babi kwish barloca, hot. The kenka lechlechle Texas, loma diok sababa, stalokli, do matkitson, loma, loma kitson, anda, ale viva inu Texas Bamovan. Betohayro, betohao, betoch civilizatia, betok New York, atolomok shivle shuter, you hoch the hotef tizer, hochhotef minomat zar, botorega, or ter downtown. Bisre midva shotrim, the be caro tumid vikrim shotrim, me com tatsfar, shemlo todia, echadalehad, hitka haloot beatma e m t e mta e cavanavi hollit. It call out, it call out in the verbe yeti. Le shoter better. Le shok. I meet kahel misavivlo shot, shotem khaty holy rot le cole. Loi calote, et tzada chora, the n yataho, khatishira.

SPEAKER_01

Anilo, anilo dichotomika moha, anilo sela dichotomia category tava, anilo dichotomika moha, vla niomerbe vadaut, shesematrilkon kolba psychologia pnewa, ksehisha hok, araf shats, o amempei, a shemikom damo gamken ksehem lomutnim, shem lomu mu manim, bephina, rikshit, rikit, vetechnit, bela filter neshek lemuliyum, zeme la medotanu, shekola maarechet, kola sulam, kola tarbut khullah, kilo la madnu kloum shiva b October, lo la madnu kloum. Be aza, khelek mi ulay be erh la madnu ulay, beudave shom runchum fdel, ba ium shemave, a shekh shelakfartel, ve ben ha iyum shiva, a shekh shel jabalia, en shum fdel, lo la madnu. Vze metbenoti ki zeto la dakakoshamata.

SPEAKER_00

Bhogembedam, the zedwahimagivani son neeshudim shamedam, any ani rotel dam si udi lonishpach, ni masbemetni masli. Lorotze, velakanni machem tekshivu. Yelakimitsumush petishohnenu, ihocha neshikilakhmikem. Avalaneshekazze, nemerze me kola ka vodaraoi. Huno adli shimush ulo no adli otrakba ba ba ba ba motem, ulo no ad lishimush ba shivaloctober, uno adlishimush tamid kshyesh ium ve vit ka lutfar, shat nin shlat mi kolakivunim, the ium or shaktire, y holiot sent er was a miri imere bavir. Velukrimishoretere bavir, lokum tashek, y holiot. Aval le fakot la nukovim sneanashim, ykarim sneo de mikarim.

SPEAKER_01

As kodem call nibavo me reshit kolve atseva, aya kyavla sotete lama atzavak varayasham. La nimarazim. Shnea vega. Lo ima tzava sham, atsawau kilo a mishtara muvan zuguremahok.

SPEAKER_00

Ava seteval kropiko de lero, emlo, emlo, letnup kudot, eh, itkalute Aravim, leho, shloshata de mahora, the khele dim atzorega atatiul shnea, attem tistal kuhza kfarash nachem and sakimesda kortakfar, miadit. Imlo, lo kulhamat surim, lo kulhamatoim. Vivsha lazo, vim ifshalato kizit kalut dura medai, ifsharli rot bavir, ifarli rotlar glim, ifartizarim lo dead, etlo khamat sal ben said du betir durim tame. The metlochalem, oh ye, shizekilu, uhmukza, my mid the tio t myve, or a zikonim. Kilu Avazemashile.

SPEAKER_01

Ther the shlo ban shimjlazupanamhad ifalazuk levad Asmolanya gidlechastawe, atamish tameshbatsa valem simochitur. Velakenata mashkritat zavaba ki bush, pugaba mikzoyu shlozi attiun chlam. Atiun mochularog. At them at gukatlani Bamikreaze, Bamikreaze collit karvut me ayemet lemishumeshek tzhali gamerim kadur le fakot baregel. Bayad. Aval En no al kaze. Ken nohal kaze kiloya choliot no al kaze kiatsava kia mark.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, Yeri alminat, almatma alminat la rog the middement came no alni shawe alminat. Lo, and neva k the alminat. Is alminat la rook. Alminat l natrell, tikul the alminatmashu eri alminat. Majal alminatma yeri alminat la sutrash, kilo alovir. Avalti, oh, no o matzah should. The ispo shnedvarim shak fitzaben, i me odmod a kilo drasti mhata to tzauchela beyarimzahashud uhbi beari bavir. Nordihabesh. Nordhabesh. No, the se yet, both rema vram sta, the vermo la yum. As both in Pavlovika them youthim, khutza, em give him layum. That's brighter music by the government your ringbook, we are share. Legame the extra today, I mean think timeshla no yum nirabo, them come lotkele, mit kad mim the mutual.

SPEAKER_01

Yarabu, araqtaya shekha marathaze, a ragotol fineshu rizach, mele, micre. Codun call e katawa ta agide e corriblo orm callishon, echolocha yamata, y colocheli said the khish culo. As codem call at lostre, kulame gusimhshawash medai, mechaslim, et call me falahavot, colof shadow. Matime the frim alcohol.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes yeah some ron, jedeshavo.

SPEAKER_01

Yeshwo yeri. K shesegerish a matarashata eight sh wood, that the red katavat. Yeshle Hapo Michhir Kavomutzak Taumer the Pahot Milamut Animus, A Velgavin the Pochot Milamut, Baregashim Hirim a Pulatere, the Giruish Lili and the M. Vanium Vermikasha Concepti, it's in coat.

SPEAKER_00

The Law Nachnu. Annachno Rimfakim, Anachnu Pobish Vilazor, the Em Vushinui, Amish Patanim Fotchil, Loap Loa Patalfemishne, the Tatalufim Mamasha Mishpatanesh Technical Long Shetah, the Long Seth. Laura Neonim, Nebti Kabesh, Shall Khamishamudim, Shakrometarosh, Nebti Kheshimit Moshta, Omer, Havichium, Tirum, Temstoab and Shim Tminim Liadimita Yural Erechav Bitnois, Khashash like Tragamagem, Kvachrei, Khash Bazi, a diffim covenet. Basetta Homera Nishikerat Tvait, Gamim. Magad, Misharet Melmea, Mathishimamim, Beshigra, Lobimilhama, Ukuishkeva. Vem Fahadim, La Kahata Kyut, Velasotna Lepti Habesh, Borhim speaker than you're not asked. Lo Zahut Fakdim, the Hut of Faktim Bilvad, Vemishpatanim Rakio Atim, but Saval Fakut. As Lola Pinalem loyakwali could, Lamelo Tlachum Sheltobem Shimash, Yamash, Yomash Yamash, Yamash Bagats, Lo, Dai. Tach Tihtevun, Leptihabesh Burhim, Kitahatesh, Shatatahateh, Tatahum Atloch is Kot Kola, Khamisha Woodiman. Vaniavarti a let mear lifness come hotim, shit him kabim, yachimacheli, alapanim. At Malat, Vatma Kore, Tonore. But Mfakdim Abhirim Tlibagdud as the Lobiduk ideologic bayati.

SPEAKER_01

As animatial bo, if nation is same, can it? Sarabitachon, L Alufa Pikud, Lemfakeda Ogda, as Sarabitachon, Alufa Pikud Mefakeda Ogda, Tal Dardik, Uahutz, Shellfna Machane. Xuma kim Gvaud Bishithe B, the Bezratashembi Mera A, okay, Zebedukmoimharival, Nivna, Ayeshuva Ival Shakbi, Shabat.

SPEAKER_00

Lelot Kiamim, Kianima Min, Shu say, Shinoya Miti, Bakneset, Baticshoret, the Batzibo, Aval the Loya Holy Cod Billa the Sem. A temef Shirim is the temashovlachem Shakola the Loya Lem, Aruti Sagir, Vanir Zolot More, it's the four. Help with the first time.

SPEAKER_01

Tnulola Vod, Tnulo Lig all at Amisrael, mea sodam is the chel, the Bemet Metipata.

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