Better Planners Podcast

Sounds of Cities Part 2 - Influence and Inspiration

• Mary Heberling-Creighton, Caroline Crisp

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Welcome to part 2 of our two-part series on sounds of cities. In this episode we focus on how the sounds of cities have influenced and inspired art and culture, including some of the most famous musicians of this generation. We get into Billie Eilish, Adele, Aminé, Dr. Dre, Kendrik Lamar, and more! Find a playlist below that will add to the listening of this episode. Feel free to listen before, after, or during the episode.

Playlist:

  1. Bad Guy - Billie Eilish (song)
  2. Rumour Has It - Adele (song)
  3. Hong Kong musician (video)
  4. Good Kid, M.A.A.D City - Kendrik Lamar (album)
  5. Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Eminem, Mary J. Blige, Kendrick Lamar & 50 Cent FULL Pepsi SB LVI Halftime Show (video)
  6. Woodlawn - Aminé (music video)
  7. Symphony in D: A Symphony for Detroit, by Detroit (video)
  8. Metro Manners PSA: Super Kind - Eating イーティング (video)

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Mary Heberling-Creighton

You are listening to the Better Planners Podcast, brought to you by the Oregon chapter of the American Planning Association. I'm Mary Heberly Creighton.

Caroline Crisp

And I'm Caroline Crisp.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

You can find us on Instagram at Better Planners. Planners is plural on the webpage for the Oregon a PA chapter, and on all of your favorite podcast streaming platforms. You can also get in touch with us by sending an email to Better Planners podcast@gmail.com. And if you're enjoying the podcast, you can support us on Kofi at kofi.com/better planners. That's K fi.com/better planners. All right. We have a. Episode that sort of is a continuation of our previous episode. If you're listening in a sequence, this is a part two of a two part series on Sounds of Cities. The first episode, if you haven't listened if about noise pollution and sounds of cities that kind of create negative impacts for people. But this episode we are taking a more positive route and we are gonna be discussing sounds of cities and how they influence art and culture. And uh, Caroline is gonna be our guide for us today on all things sounds of cities and music. So take it away, Caroline.

Caroline Crisp

Awesome. Well, thank you Mary. I'm so. Super excited to be here. Yeah. So this is going to be the second part of our series and you know, while sounds affect people in places negatively, as you know, Cassie has talked about, I wanted to talk through some of the ways in which sounds of a city and urban life do build to the culture. And do build to our sense of belonging. So we're gonna talk through a few examples of that. You know, the city being used as an instrument, the city being used as system, and what that means for planners and the kinds of memories that can be invoked through sounds and through some of those more urban sounds.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Very nice. Um, we'll just mention too, we're gonna be talking a lot about music and various sources of studies or videos and things like that, and all of that will be mentioned in our show notes. And our show notes will have all of that information for you. So if you want to listen to a song or an album that we're talking about later in the episode before, you're more than welcome to or listen to it afterwards or during, doesn't matter. Um, but uh, it may be helpful context as we talk about the music and the art in this episode. So just putting that at the top.

Caroline Crisp

Love it, love it, love it.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

So speaking of playlists and albums and songs, I. We're gonna be talking a lot about musicians and music in general and how it is affected by the place that people live. It's affected by the sounds that come from places that people live, and sometimes you may not realize how. Very popular music is actually inspired by sounds of cities. So we're going to start off talking about sounds that define cities for us, whether it's positive, negative things that we hear that's repetitive all the time, things that we hear that has maybe a, a beat to it a little bit. And I'm curious, Caroline, if you have any. Sounds that you think of when you think of a particular city, or if you think of just a city in general versus rural or things like that and kind of think about, you know, stopping and listening in the place you are and what kind, what you can hear from that.

Caroline Crisp

Yeah, that's a great question, Mary. So I think, uh, what comes up for me, uh, in Portland, Oregon, when I think of sounds that really remind me of, of the area the community is. You know, my neighbor Mike yelling, Hey Caroline, you know, from across the road?

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

Or the barista shop making coffee, or the dogs barking outside of the local, you know, coffee and tea shop outside on Clinton Street. I also think of that intersection on Clinton where you have cyclists, you know, telling drivers to slow down. Yeah. Or drivers honking at cyclists to stop. I think of, you know, the footsteps of folks going to the local bars close by going to dots or, or reel'em in or something like that. So there's a lot of those like kind of repetitive sounds. But then, you know, also in Southern California where I spend a lot of time, one of the sounds I always hear is the beach, the waves.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

The smell of the salty air. They actually just changed the plane's direction. So we hear a lot of airplanes now. Oh. We live kind of close to Santa Ana airport. And I, I hear those sounds come through. You know, the reminding of. People are always coming in to go to Disneyland and that sort of thing. So those are some of the sounds that really remind me of home. In that way. I'm curious about you. What are some of the sounds that remind you of where you currently live, but also your home?

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah, it's a great, it's a great question'cause it does make you stop and think, right? I think there's a lot of sounds, especially in cities. Well, probably anywhere honestly, that you live in is sort of, it just becomes background and you sort of forget about it. Um, but then there are instances where it's like it pops up and, and you're like, oh, that's a nice sound. I in particular live near like a grove of mature Douglas Furs, which is like classic Pacific Northwest a tree here. If you think of the Pacific Northwest, it's probably a dug fur. And I also live in a part of the city that gets kind of windy from the Columbia Gorge, I believe. At least that's my assumption. Um, and so you hear a lot of like the movement of the wind through the trees, which is a really fun sound. And sometimes, uh, it's, you know, it's just background noise and I'm not paying attention. And then, but then when I do. It is really interesting to, to hear that sound and kind of the just like fluid feel it provides because the wind is sort of ever changing directions and then the trees will shift in different ways and yeah, so that is an interesting sound for sure. I think maybe a lot of people in the Pacific Northwest can Relate to for sure. If I'm thinking of like, sounds that define a place, I think transit is a really easy one to think about. I feel like every major transit line has different phrasings and little sounds that they use and are like max, our uh, light rail line in Portland has this like. Repetitive, like beep sound that it makes, but it's, its quote unquote bell. It sounds like a bell, but every time it's about to like leave the station. It makes this sound. And, um, if you live in Portland, you know exactly what that sound is and you can pinpoint. If you hear it, you'll probably be like, oh, that's like the max line. Or that's the max leaving a station. So yeah, that is, that's like a, I think a classic one. And I'm sure other people in different, like urban cities with major transit lines also have, like, each one has their own kind of particular little sounds to them too. Even just like the announcers having different. Like dialects or, um, things that really define a place that's also really interesting too, as part of that.

Caroline Crisp

That's such a good point. When I think of, you know, the Portland EMX line, that's, I know the sound. Yeah. Right. I completely know that sound. It's, it's buried in there. And even, uh, you know, LA Metro, sometimes they'll have celebrities do the voiceover or the MTA New York transit line. They'll have. Celebrities do those announcements, which is always kind of funny. Or you'll hear Mind the Gap and everyone knows, okay, that's the London tube. Right, right. So, and we'll get into that with our example of Adele using Yeah. Mind the Gap as a, uh, basis for some of her songs. So yeah, you're totally right. You know, those sounds invoke sense of place sometimes sense of purpose.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

Sometimes they bring you back to a memory of you on the bus or. You walking across the street and that's kind of what we're gonna dive into today is that sense of belonging, that sense of culture.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's like dive into it. I think you sort of alluded to it a little bit with talking about Adele, but um, there's some pretty famous examples of mainstream like big artists using city sounds in their, in their music. Let's talk about that a little bit.

Caroline Crisp

Yeah, I would love to. So. A big inspiration for this podcast episode really derives from Bill Eilish, bad guy. So one thing that I learned that I thought was super interesting was how Billie Eilish and her brother Phineas, they were walking in Australia and they heard their pedestrian crosswalk sound. And it is this like very spaceshipy sound. It almost goes like. And it's so cool because they actually sampled that sound to become the high hats in bad guy.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

So it created this like high frequency, repetitive beat that drives the groove. Like I said, it sounds like a spaceship and it wasn't really in their. Plan, but I just love how producers and beat makers have this opportunity to walk around the city and play with infrastructure in that way. I mean, what a cool idea to use a pedestrian crosswalk as a high hat sound and an extremely famous song now. And it just really inspired me to think through. How could our crosswalks be used in that way? Or how could our, you know, bus line sounds be used

Mary Heberling-Creighton

mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

To create sense of belonging music and kind of go all the way. And I'm really curious with how the Australians developed that sound now, right?

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah.

Caroline Crisp

They intended for it to be so groovy, but, uh, yeah.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah. And it's interesting too, because I think when we were talking about noise pollution in our other episode. I believe like crosswalk sounds, tends to be a more annoying sound for some people. Obviously it's meant to be loud so that people that are uh, sight impaired can, can know when a across, but, um, but it is something that's like, can seem like an annoyance to people and it's really interesting to have folks that create music as their jobs. Be able to like take sounds and go, oh, that annoying sound is actually perfect for this hit song that we're going to make. And be able to like take it and sort of manipulate it too into something that is a little less annoying, but also something that can just be so inspirational too.

Caroline Crisp

Yeah. Mary, I really love that you brought that up because you know the sounds of a city, you know, scientifically really can affect your mental health and the loudness can really affect your. Your mental health. So I totally get that. In no way you know mean to put that down. It's so true. And it needs to be adjusted. Especially the sounds of cars too, right?

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Caroline Crisp

But yeah, exactly. It's this like how can we find beauty or good in something that is meant to alert or alarm or'cause it is true, like when you leave that city. And when you come back, you might miss some pieces of that, right? Not all of them, of course, but there might be some, some things where, okay, the train was right outside your apartment. You woke up to that every day, right? But when you come home or when you come back to a place you've lived a long time, like wow, that sound really is nostalgic. It really brings back that sense of belonging. And those are just in everyday sounds. Right.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Right.

Caroline Crisp

And I really liked your example of Adele's rumor. Has it? Can you tell us more about that one?

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah. So when I was doing research for this episode, I was curious based on, you know, your information on Bill E's example, there is like other artists must do this too, right? Like this can't be the first time something like this has happened. And one of the examples I found was producer for Adele's. Rumor has, is it just called Rumors or Rumor has it? I don't, can't remember. I think it's just rumors, like also a super popular song and the drumbeat in it is based on the sounds of the. Trains in London hitting the side of the, the rail line. And when you go back and you listen to it, you go, oh yeah, it kind of does sound like a train. But you would've never thought otherwise that that's what it was. So it's again, it's taking like sound that. Maybe it's just in your background, you're not really paying attention, or maybe you find it annoying or grading and they use it as a way to drive the, the song or a way to add elements to it. That, that just make it even more interesting. Yeah. It's, it's, it was really interesting. Yeah. I would've never guessed until I read that. And then once you, once you read that, you, and you hear the song, you're like, oh. I totally hear it now.

Caroline Crisp

Yeah, that's so true. Like a lot of those train cart rides or the, the sound from the train can really be the base of, of those songs, the drum or the, or the high hats, right? Because I don't wanna get too composer, but, you know, some of those deep bombastic sounds of the city mm-hmm. They really can be like a, a bass drumbeat and those higher, more high frequency alerting sounds. Can be high hats and that sort of thing. So we wanted to do this episode two to inspire planners to kind of think through what would it sound like to create a song of your city in that way. So when you're walking down the street, maybe we can all have a different appreciation for it.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah, absolutely. There was also another example that I found in my, my research too, um, of not a super famous musician, but a musician nonetheless in Hong Kong. And he would, there was video of him, and again, everything's gonna be in the show notes for you to. To check out, but there's this great video of him taking, uh, recordings throughout the city of just like random sounds like little beeps when like folks were going through the, the transit gate and you could just see him just like taking his phone out, recording the sound really quickly and then taking away, and he brings all that randomness of the city and composes it into music, which is so interesting. Yeah. It just like showcases this. Ability for, um, artists and creatives and musicians to take sound. Or things in cities and create really interesting art out of it. So yeah.

Caroline Crisp

Super, super cool.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah, and I'm sure there's a lot more of like artists doing that out there, but those were some of our high level examples.

Caroline Crisp

Yeah, exactly right. So how does the sound of a city translate when it's used as music while noises or can be annoying and loud, what we might call noise pollution might sound different to a musician's ear. That sound can become, is inspirational, like the drumbeat that was based on train wheels. Not every city sound is necessarily pollution. It can become inspiration.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Caroline Crisp

So our next section is really dedicated to the lyricism of music being inspired by cities and where people grew up. So. We're gonna get a little bit into Kendrick Lamar. We're gonna get a little bit into Dr. Dre. We're gonna get a little bit into Snoop Dogg. We're also gonna get a little bit into Amina, a Portland legend to talk through, you know, the lyrics that inspire music. The first album I wanted to talk about is Good Kid, mad City like Kendrick La. I'm sure many of you guys know this album. The album is framed as a good kid navigating a mad city. The city is not, you know, a background scenery. The city shapes the album as pressure, repetition, cause and effect, and it grounds Kendrick's story of growing up in Compton. You know, naming it directly as home, but also constant pressure. So it talks about Compton Avenue, a North South Street connection, symbolizing, you know, the connection between neighborhoods. And the longstanding social history. And he also talks about cul-de-sacs, talking about residential isolation. You know, having limited exits, not really being able to get out, but then also feeling trapped by the built environment. And one of the reasons why I love this album is the song intentionally doesn't talk about tourist imagery, but it reinforces focus on everyday streets and spaces as survival and identity. He also gets into the pieces of the urban grid of Compton. Kendrick said he was surprised by how many audiences connected to this track, but it really mirrors the logic of a city grid. There's repetition with rules. Everyday blocks are similar, but not necessarily equal. Do you have any thoughts on that, Mary, before I jump into the Super Bowl?

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah. That is really interesting. I always appreciate it when artists talk about the inspiration behind their albums or their music. It just adds so much more to the listening of it. Like I think sometimes we intuitively would feel like, yeah, we can feel that pressure from the way that he, he created the songs, right? But you don't realize that it's. About the pressure of being like a kid in a rough neighborhood or the pressure of not being able to move about how you would like, and it just sort of highlights that you don't need to be a planner to know your city. If that makes sense. One of the, like most famous artists, musicians out there today is talking about the grid of a city like that is just so interesting that they intuitively know that cul-de-sacs make it hard for you to go about. Like, I, I think it also paints the picture of like, people don't need a planning degree to understand how cities function. Right. Um, they're living it. And so it just showcases the importance of people being able to articulate how they feel about things, whether it's through a public survey or if it's through like one of the most popular music albums in the last few years. Yeah, it's just fascinating and I, and I love reading and hearing about artists and what inspires their music.'cause it really does kind of brings you down a little bit to be like, okay, we're not on this pedestals planners, we are. The same and we experience the same things as other people do, and some people will experience it different than we do. And, uh, things that we know we've been taught, cul-de-sacs can cause a lot of isolation. We're hearing that from people. And it's not like it's just some theory that's out there. It's, it's now in music and poems and those things like that. Um, so yeah, I think this, I think this is a fascinating look into how cities inspire music.

Caroline Crisp

Yeah, that's a really great point, Mary, and I love the direction that this is going in too, because as planners, right, we're, we're technocrats. We have these degrees and we know how these things can really affect us mentally, physically, but also all the memories, you know, we're working with people's homes.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

You know, it's so sensitive, it's so personal. So I know when I put my planner hat on that cul-de-sacs, you know, isolate folks and people can't walk or, or bike or, you know, really connect to the grid. But at the same time, like that cul-de-sac might be where someone met their best friends growing up, right? And they hear the sounds of laughter playing soccer in the street and you know, they hear the sounds of their parents like barbecuing outside. You know, so when you think about cities within that lens, musically and through sound, it really can connect you and like understand why folks aren't quick to give it up.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah.

Caroline Crisp

You know, it's, there's so many memories tied in music, right?

Mary Heberling-Creighton

A hundred percent.

Caroline Crisp

And that kind of takes me to, I really am excited to talk about. Dr. Dre, Snoop Dogg, Eminem, Mary j Blige, Kendrick Lamar I 50 cents Hep Halftime Show. I have stronger opinions on this halftime show. Yeah, I loved it. Um, and you know, the Super Bowl's coming up here, so it's kind of good timing. It is Good timing. Yeah. Funny. We're all rooting for Bad Bunny, but one of the reasons why I loved this halftime show. Was not only did they, you know, sing California Love, but they put a GIS street grid of Compton and LA County and LA City on the entire Super Bowl field. And I remember being like, oh my gosh, there's street signs.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

Lines all across this field. And I was like, I know that's a geographic informational system. Right. And I saw a few planners from LA. You know, on LinkedIn really get it. They were like, this is an incredible cultural phenomenon and an incredible cultural sense of pride that we have down here. And it is in low riders and it is in music, and it is in Randy's donuts.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

You know? And Randy's Donuts does have a parking lot and we're not happy with that. But there's also, like I said, things can just be sensitive when maybe you had memories in that parking lot or something like that. And I remember seeing a big thing on LinkedIn about, there was, um, some commentary about how. The low riders were the same size as the single family bedrooms in the Super Bowl show performance and how there's criticism around why are we having cars in this performance when they can take up as much space as a one family bedroom.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

I totally get it, and a lot of me does agree to that. But there's also such a sense of pride and ownership and culture around low riders, and they do drive slow. They typically don't drive fast. So once again, I, I am here for the criticism of cars and I do believe in that, but I do think that sometimes planners can unintentionally put themselves. In a whole, when we go to communities with that kind of narrative, you know?

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Sure. Well, and I think it articulates places that maybe other people don't see as civic pride being civic pride for somebody else. Right. You know, uh, I don't know if everyone in LA would be like. Oh, yay. Like a grid of Compton. But like if you live there and you're like, I know where that is. Like, that's so cool. Um, I know that street I can, I can like visualize that street seeing it there portrayed during the halftime like that is. Civic pride and they as musicians are representing the place that they grew up at, or a place that they talk about, or the place they sing about or rap about. And yeah, it is, um, it just showcase that, you know, everyone is gonna have different opinions and different ideas of, of what makes a city a city. Which again makes our job a little bit harder'cause it is hard to like appease everyone when everyone has all these different ideas and thoughts. But it does bring a point that like any place in the city is gonna have, somebody's gonna have some sort of like memory or civic pride tied to it. And that is also important.

Caroline Crisp

So true. So true.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

And I think music and memory is actually very tied together. Um, similar to like other senses, if you listen to a song, you can immediately, it'll take you to a memory a lot quicker than, than other things. Just as like smell sometimes can do that for you. And so like them singing about Compton or LA and the area that they're in. It also then provides, uh, a memory tied to it. And so then people hear it and they can think like, oh, I have this memory of, of that area. Especially if you're from there, like, think of how important that would feel to be like, some of the most like important rap artists are talking about the place that I grew up. And being able to hear that song and instantly be translated into a memory is so important as well.

Caroline Crisp

Yeah, that, that's exactly true. You know, um, a lot of the California culture that came outta that performance, and if you guys haven't seen it, highly recommend, go watch it. It is crushed.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

We'll put it in our playlist.

Caroline Crisp

Crush it crushes and, um, yeah, but there is, it's like this. Interesting dynamic. You know, California culture is built where order meets sprawl. So there is connection to that sprawl. There is connection to that car culture.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah.

Caroline Crisp

There is connection, you know, to Randy's Donuts and that sort of thing and how people move through it. There's memories there. Even if our goal. Is to alter it, or we want people to be healthy. We want the environments to be healthy. There's so much tied to that, you know, it's literally on display on one of the biggest world stages.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

And it's such a sense of civic pride. I don't think we should necessarily be super quick to want to change that always.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Right, right.

Caroline Crisp

So what does this mean for city planners? Sound as community connection. So we know that every city has a sound. We know that artists listen for rhythm, memory, and emotion. And planners can do the same. Sound can be an emotional bridge. We. People might not connect to plans and maps, but they might connect to the sound of their street, the rhythm of their commute, and the quiet of a neighborhood space sound can be a accessible entry point for engagement. So now we're gonna bring it back to Oregon. Bring, go back to Portland, the city as memory neighborhoods, quiet and belonging. Why the song Woodlawn Park by Amina Matters. So if y'all haven't yet, go listen to Woodlawn Park by Amina. It is a beautiful, uh, song. It's named after Portland's northern neighborhood. It functions as a return emotionally, culturally, and personally. For many people and the artists, the city is present without sirens or traffic. So in this sound, Amina invokes place through naming memory, emotional pacing, there's this urban beauty connection and some of the strongest city sounds live as memories, right? Quiet is also a part of the urban experience too.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah, that's, I think that ties really nicely actually into what we talked about with the LA rappers is how important it is for musicians to talk about places and, and the experiences of a city and their music to be. Able to kind of provide that memory capture that can be so relatable to so many different people too. You know, somebody could even just hear the term Woodlawn Park and have a variety of different ideas and memories, right? But then music itself, adding that on top of it. Then provides an additional memory. And it's always so interesting to hear how different people interpret different areas of the city. You know, they may be listening to the exact same thing or walking through the exact same street. And the differences that they'll, they'll hear and present in their music is, is really interesting.

Caroline Crisp

Yeah, exactly. One of my favorite lyrics from that song is the beginning of the chorus, where Amina says, came a long way from that wood long park. Now young Amina push and push to start. So he just really gets into, you know, his memories of growing up, meeting his friends there, playing basketball, being able to walk to that park, being able to meet up with friends after school there. He mentions Kobe in the song, right?

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

So kind of bringing it back to LA as well. And yeah, this is one of the records that he really shows Portland pride in.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

You know, Portland Pride is woven throughout his music, but this song is really one of the best ones that showcases like his pride of growing up in in North Portland. And we have some rappers in Portland, but not a ton who have made it. So, um, it's just such a blessing to, you know, hear this song on the radio all over the world. And he didn't necessarily say Portland. He said Woodlawn Park.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Right.

Caroline Crisp

You know, he said Wood Lawn Park. And, uh, it's just a beautiful thing to see. And it's, it's so important that we have access to these spaces to meet, to have quiet in this city.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Right.

Caroline Crisp

You know, to connect places, to hear the sound of basketballs bouncing, or kids playing or kids biking.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

Or you know, people chatting. Sitting in the park, so Yeah. Yeah. I remember when I would go to Woodlawn Park, it was during the pandemic and it was one of the only spaces you could meet, like meet the entire pandemic.'cause it was outside. And those were some of the most like important spaces to me at that time.'cause it was the only place I could talk to people, you know?

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

Um, and really connect with folks in that way. It's a gorgeous park. If you're in Portland and you haven't been to Woodlawn Park, please go. Yeah, it's, uh, it's the best, um, respected of course. Yeah. Yeah, it's wonderful.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah, it's, it is so interesting that you say that, and just the importance of place and being able to keep those spaces for people to gather so that they can experience the city and be able to create really cool music from it.

Caroline Crisp

Definitely. So, you know, as planners, how can we use sound to connect with our audience? A few of the questions I would love for you guys to reflect on is what does your neighborhood sound like? What sounds make this place feel like home? And you know, maybe we incorporate that into our existing conditions as planners. No, you're not existing conditions. No. Um. But in incorporating sound awareness into outreach, storytelling, design thinking, sound can make abstract planning, extremely personal. It's something that's experienced together. Right? Uh, this place exists because people live here. Yeah. There's identity there. Um, and it really teaches us.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah. I found this really amazing example of that, of how to kind of open source, create a sense of place through sounds throughout the city, and it's, I'll link it in our show notes. It was a, a YouTube video on this musician who created an app. That allowed people to submit their own sounds of Detroit, and I guess they got over 15,000 different sounds from people through that app. And then he was able to turn that into music and the whole point was to bring this civic pride. Of Detroit together crowdsourcing these, the different ways people hear the city and define place for them and define Detroit. And also be able to talk about how the built environment shapes the way that they hear sound in Detroit and all of those things. And you know, as a planner you hear those words and you're like, oh, not meant to joke, but it's like music to your ears a little bit. You're like, oh yes. Yes.

Caroline Crisp

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

The built environment does affect things. Um, and I think it also is just such an important point that different professions and artists and things can, can. Actually play into our work as planners. I would argue that that project was a planning project. Uh, you know, it was a community engagement planning project for sure, but it was, um, started by a musician and then brought together, you know, over 15,000 people. I mean, can you imagine if we got like 15,000 people to participate in any sort of planning project? That would be incredible.

Caroline Crisp

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

And it just showcases the need to kind of think creatively and also go out and like talk to other creative people to help us with our planning projects. Um, you know, if you're doing a 20 year vision for your city, what a neat way to figure out how people think about their city. Through sound and, you know, and then turn it into this like, piece of art that people can have pride about. I think that there's just so many different avenues that we don't think about just because maybe we don't have a background in it, um, of music or things like that. But there are all of these various options that we can use to engage with our communities and figure out how people live in in cities. Because again, we're only, we're our own selves and we think certain ways. We have our own biases about everything. And so being able to have people participate and showcase how they feel about things in a creative way is really cool.

Caroline Crisp

So true. I mean, what a great segment of writing that into the statement of work, right?

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

Having a song, hiring a local musician to capture the sounds of, of those blocks in the neighborhood, having somebody sing a rap over it, putting it on YouTube. What a great way to get folks engaged in the sitting pla in the city planning process who you know, might not. Be as involved.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah.

Caroline Crisp

Because let's be real, like a lot of people don't wanna read. I don't wanna read so much. I'm tired of everything being printed and just having the opportunity to have a sense of civic pride, uh, be involved, be reflective.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

Also. Like people can give feedback in that way. People can give feedback and, oh, you know, I don't like to hear this guy yelling on the street, but I like to hear, you know, these kids playing, or, you know, vice versa. People are different, but you know, there's a way to engage. I'm, I'm always really curious about different kinds of medium. To get people involved in, in the city planning other than, you know, here's a memo.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Right.

Caroline Crisp

Here's a local TSP. Please read through this and provide comments.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Right. Here's a, here's a survey to take. Not that we don't, we don't, it's not that we don't like surveys, it's just that's like the only thing we do. Um, yeah.

Caroline Crisp

I know. Yeah. Yeah. Surveys can be a little whack, but yeah, they're so important too. I'm in no way trying to, no.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah, no. Please continue doing surveys.

Caroline Crisp

We need them. Please do the survey. Guys do the survey.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah.

Caroline Crisp

We need you to.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

It also highlights to me how we can engage different audiences too. Like I'm making an assumption, but I would assume that the people that listen to like Kendrick Lamar and Amina and those people may be younger. I'm just making an assumption. I'm not saying that's fact, but I think maybe using music and sound could be a way for us to engage in different audiences that we don't normally engage with. Right. It's, it's something that is already a big part of their lives. It's something that they can physically feel like they're doing. You know, if, like, if there was an app and you're like, Ooh, they want me to take sounds with my city. Okay. Um, it kind of makes it like a, like an active thing for them to do, which I think, if you're younger, um, being able to do something active and like with your hands is gonna be a lot more, uh, engaging than clicking a button. And on a Likert scale, one to five. Do you like? Again, surveys are still important, but. Finding tactile ways to engage with people is going to enhance and bring more folks to the table as well. Um, and if it's something that is culturally very important to your community, um, like a particular type of music or a type of art or anything like that, then that's, that's a great way to make sure you're, you're engaging folks that. We'll want to participate.

Caroline Crisp

So true. One sound, I feel like unites all Oregonians is the sound of rain and that pitter pattern.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

And I could really see the city or counties diving into that, you know? And I agree. I think young people would be incredibly engaged with this sort of thing. You know, how can we use the different senses other than just seeing to engage folks, right?

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

And, uh. Yeah. I love the idea of giving residents an opportunity to record a sound that's really meaningful for them, and then compose something that reminds them of their city and also the direction that they want their city to go in.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

I bet that would be, you know, surprising to some of us planners.'cause it really is, everyone listens to music. Everyone listens to music. So, um, it's a way to engage folks. That's fun, that's creative.'cause I think when we're engaging people it has to be number one, extremely convenient. And number two, fun.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Right.

Caroline Crisp

Truly. I know cookies can help with public engagement, but the cookies are fun for sure. But you know, if it's fun and if it's convenient, people will. We'll be excited. And it has that sense of civic pride, right?

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm. Right.

Caroline Crisp

Yeah. Building civic pride is something I'm pretty obsessed with these days.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah.

Caroline Crisp

So,

Mary Heberling-Creighton

yeah, and I think also just like being able to use the music that's being created to talk about these things. Like, Hey, did you listen to, uh, Billie Eilish? Sound and or song and it had that noise in it from the crosswalk in Australia. How cool. Like that's such more engaging than like, you know, just saying like, Hey, crosswalk sounds are different in different cities, but it's like, oh no, let's take one of the most famous musicians in. The world right now and highlight how like, interesting this, this sound from this particular city is and how they used it into something that created one of the most famous songs in the last few years. I think it's just another avenue or way to bring folks in to start having them see that living in a city is not just living in a city. There are, there are like people that are thinking about it and we want to hear from them and. We want to know how they feel about things. And so it's just an easy way to be a helpful like tool to kind of bring folks in and, and talk about these things that would be harder to do without the help of Billie Eilish.

Caroline Crisp

Yeah, that's a really great point about Billie Eilish and in my brain it. It can go two directions. There's music engagement to pull someone in to build civic pride, but then there's also music engagement as a way to advertise or showcase a new system. I know that Peabo worked with I Am Mo show to do a a music video for parking Kitty, which if you're in the city you've used Parking Kitty.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Mm-hmm.

Caroline Crisp

On the app, I'm sure. And that is a a really interesting way and really cool way, I think. Yeah, that the city, you know, used music to promote their new parking app. I saw that and I was like, this is like, it's, it's funny. It's interesting. Like I still remember it and if you remember it, that's great. But yeah, I think that. With any new media, whenever you're trying new things, it's okay to be a little nervous or, but just always try. And then with LA Metro, they have pulled in some of the coolest advertisements I've ever seen using local musicians. A pull up some, but some of my favorite ones is when they join K-Pop Stars. So they use K-Pop stars in a lot of their ads. And specifically, I can't even make this up. They've used, um, K-pop stars for their ads to discern public behavior on the metro. Oh. So they have this guy called like, no shy guy, and it's like, no, shy guys like, and they have literal K-pop songs, but like, don't eat on the train.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

That is awesome,

Caroline Crisp

or, you know. Yeah. Yeah.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

That's cool. I mean, not every city's gonna have the budget of LA Metro, but I still like it.

Caroline Crisp

Okay, so what it is is LA Metro launched a viral anime inspired PSA public media music videos featuring super kind to combat poor public behavior on transit. And the video highlights etiquette issues like loud noise seat hogging. Aisle blocking, littering, and it's all done by this monster named Rude dude. It's just, and he is like this huge orange monster and, um, it is the funniest thing I've ever seen. Rude Dude is his name, so if you get the chance to look it up, we'll have in the show notes as well. But Rude Dude is, is one of a kind.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

I just love the name.

Caroline Crisp

So you can also, it rolls off the tongue. It's super popular. It has, yeah, 250 K views on YouTube. Rudy dude's crunching and then chewing in the music video. And literally this pop star comes in and it's like, do not eat on the box. Super kind love her, but what a cool way to do public service announcements, you know, through music.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah.

Caroline Crisp

Through, uh. The music videos, it's the production of It's really well too, it looks like costs a little bit of money.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Yeah.

Caroline Crisp

She has a train going around a halo on her head in the music video. So anyhow.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

That's cool.

Caroline Crisp

But yeah.

Mary Heberling-Creighton

Well, this was so fascinating. I really appreciate you bringing. Idea for an episode to us. I think it highlights so many interesting things that maybe everyday planners don't think about unless they have a music background. But I think it just also really went well with our first episode talking about noise pollution, where there are some very serious effects of noise in cities and on public health and all, all sorts of things, but also how at the same time it inspires some of the most famous artists of our generation. Yeah, this was so interesting. I hope that as planners or if you think about it and you're walking through your city or you're listening to music, you might notice some things differently. Now. You might go back and listen to Rumors by Adele, get it stuck in your head, and then. You're gonna be able to hear that train. Um, but also take the time to hear your own city and hear your own neighborhood and, um, and realize that, um, it's also a piece of art. It's also a piece of your community. It's also, uh, what defines place and where they are. And it's not just meant to be a, a jarring and loud sound, but sometimes it can create music for us. So, yeah. Thank you so much, Caroline. This was so great.

Caroline Crisp

Thank you, Mary. It's been a pleasure.