PodCrash | Talk Of Champions | With Philip Hindes & Callum Skinner

#42 Theo Bos | πŸ‡³πŸ‡± πŸš΄β€β™‚οΈ Legend | 19 Years Multi Discipline Pro 😲 | Pro Tour πŸš΅β€β™‚οΈ Track Sprint πŸš΄β€β™‚οΈ Japanese Keirin πŸ‡―πŸ‡΅

April 13, 2020 Philip Hindes & Callum Skinner
PodCrash | Talk Of Champions | With Philip Hindes & Callum Skinner
#42 Theo Bos | πŸ‡³πŸ‡± πŸš΄β€β™‚οΈ Legend | 19 Years Multi Discipline Pro 😲 | Pro Tour πŸš΅β€β™‚οΈ Track Sprint πŸš΄β€β™‚οΈ Japanese Keirin πŸ‡―πŸ‡΅
Chapters
PodCrash | Talk Of Champions | With Philip Hindes & Callum Skinner
#42 Theo Bos | πŸ‡³πŸ‡± πŸš΄β€β™‚οΈ Legend | 19 Years Multi Discipline Pro 😲 | Pro Tour πŸš΅β€β™‚οΈ Track Sprint πŸš΄β€β™‚οΈ Japanese Keirin πŸ‡―πŸ‡΅
Apr 13, 2020
Philip Hindes & Callum Skinner

In this week's episode, we sit down with a titan of the sport, Theo Bos.Β 

Bos was initially inspired to take up Speed Skating after seeing his brother's success as a professional competing at the 1998 and 2002 Winter Olympics. In the Netherlands Speed Skating and Cycling are closely connected. Theo found his passion for Cycling through training for Skating.Β 

Bos found incredible success in his new sport. Winning his first Sprint world title at 20 years old. Despite being a sprinter Team Rabobank showed continued interest in singing Theo as a pro road rider. Choosing instead to concentrate on the 2004 Olympic Games where he won a Silver medal. Beijing 2008 was Theo's next big target but after a disappointing games he then decided to switch disciplines to road cycling taking up Team Rabobank on their offer.Β 

Theo found success on the road, picking up various professional wins beating the likes of Mark Cavendish and riding for other pro tour teams such as Cervelo and MTN.

In 2015 Theo decided to switch back to the track finding yet more success and targeting the Tokyo 2021 Olympic Games.Β 

Theo also regularly competes in Professional Japanese Keirin racing.

Show Notes Transcript

In this week's episode, we sit down with a titan of the sport, Theo Bos.Β 

Bos was initially inspired to take up Speed Skating after seeing his brother's success as a professional competing at the 1998 and 2002 Winter Olympics. In the Netherlands Speed Skating and Cycling are closely connected. Theo found his passion for Cycling through training for Skating.Β 

Bos found incredible success in his new sport. Winning his first Sprint world title at 20 years old. Despite being a sprinter Team Rabobank showed continued interest in singing Theo as a pro road rider. Choosing instead to concentrate on the 2004 Olympic Games where he won a Silver medal. Beijing 2008 was Theo's next big target but after a disappointing games he then decided to switch disciplines to road cycling taking up Team Rabobank on their offer.Β 

Theo found success on the road, picking up various professional wins beating the likes of Mark Cavendish and riding for other pro tour teams such as Cervelo and MTN.

In 2015 Theo decided to switch back to the track finding yet more success and targeting the Tokyo 2021 Olympic Games.Β 

Theo also regularly competes in Professional Japanese Keirin racing.

spk_0:   0:00
Hello and welcome Support Cash. Ah, our guest this week is Ah, your boss. Ah, One of the biggest sporting personalities and Holland's. He's been professional cyclist for 19 years, I think. Ah, one of the few lights to successfully compete and track spin as well has gone to releasing five times World champion Olympic silver medallist on DA. Actually, one of my kind of sporting heroes when was going up through the sport always loved being a little tussle between ah, between two on Chris,

spk_1:   0:25
are you welcome?

spk_2:   0:27
Thank you.

spk_0:   0:30
So, Phil, if you got any news to kick off

spk_1:   0:33
and not got many news, has just been training in my home gym and being on Swift a few times, So I'm gonna try and get on it every day. So far. Um,

spk_0:   0:43
I saw you. So you posted a one hour flight and said, It's the longest Would like you've done this year.

spk_1:   0:47
Yeah, miss, I don't do much road.

spk_0:   0:54
Okay. Yeah. Fair enough on my mind. Uses a still have covered this by apparently being diagnosed with it. Got stitches. That many five things is back up and running. So that's exciting, isn't it, Phil?

spk_1:   1:06
It's never bean up and running in the first place, so yeah,

spk_0:   1:11
but now is extra on learning. Um, but yeah. No Nazi. What's news about the guy with the last one? Souto. So your older brother was a speed scare, obviously, in whole. And there's a big connexion between speed skating and cycling, which we don't have so much in the UK. Um, but yes. So how did you kind of find yourself getting into sport? And did you do any kind of speed skating this? Well,

spk_2:   1:32
um, yeah. I started cycling when I was nine on my brothers. They did cycling and speed skating. Andi? Um, yeah. One of my brothers. He was. Ah, yeah. Professional speedskater. Any went to you? Went to AA Olympics in Nagano 98 2002. Salt Lake City 2006 to Reno and 2000. Ah, 10 Vancouver. And also Athens Olympics. He did as a cyclist, as a starter for the imprint

spk_1:   2:05
on,

spk_2:   2:05
um so we eyes like, eight years older than me. So he was always ah example for me when he was training and everything and Ah, yeah, when you go to races from him, cycling or speech getting you want to also compete. And so I started. I started doing cycling in the beginning, and then when I was a little bit over also speed skating. Um, and when I was a junior, I decided to go only for recycling. So I quit. It's getting, But you see many, of course. Ah, winter speedskating big sport in Holland and in the summer, many speedskaters, they keep it or do a lot of bass training on the on the road bike on the road. So, yeah, the training is really good to combine.

spk_0:   2:57
Yeah, we had, um, Danny Cannon. The UK did a speedskating before. That's well, so there's a little bit of it in the UK, but I think after BMX, that's probably the most common sport which splinters end up transferring form. What made you what made you end up picking, picking one over the other?

spk_2:   3:13
Um, speed skating is very technical sport. And if you have, if you don't have a super good technique, um, yeah, your times won't be superfast on, um, and at the same time, my technique was was good, but I preferred to do a sport where technique wasn't that important. Like cycling. It's just ramming on the pedal. And, um and actually, I was also better at cycling than that speed skating. So when I was a junior, I was like, Ah, at one year important here. Who? When your genius 1/3 off from Holland in Sprint? Um, yeah, that's good, but yeah, not maybe not good enough to become professional. And at that time I did also Ah, junior worlds. I become World Champion Junior. One kilometre and I was able to to go to the national team and write World Cups and everything with the national team already. And I did also Will says a junior in Antwerp 2000 won. So, yeah, when you roll into that world, you don't want anything else and you want to become good at that and that. So yeah, that's how it equal. Basically,

spk_0:   4:35
Phil, you grew up near the Dutch border. Did you ever try that speed skating?

spk_1:   4:39
I did, actually, no. Did you get it? Yeah, I was Nice. Ring not far from him from where I live. So I've given it a go head like 10 sessions at it. R Really? Yeah.

spk_2:   4:54
What was that? What's what city

spk_1:   4:57
can't remember near me. Looks like when I was a code,

spk_2:   5:03
it was in Germany or it was in Holland,

spk_1:   5:05
in Germany, but near the Dutch border.

spk_2:   5:09
Okay, Yeah,

spk_0:   5:10
yeah. Do you know ah, Feel Ever told you what he thinks about the Dutch near the near the Dutch border too,

spk_1:   5:16
You know, eyes. You

spk_0:   5:22
made a joke about the number plates. Phil,

spk_1:   5:24
there's that. That's the old German joke. If you fail your driving licence, you get an orange number plate waste. The bad

spk_2:   5:35
are

spk_0:   5:37
you could give it back to him at any point. He's got no feelings. It's fine. Um, but yes, you can, like, burst onto the scene like like play young because you won your first world champs and spend 21 years old, which is like, super, super impressive. And like, I think from like, a physical point of view you're still quite, like, skinny back then as well, and didn't kind of get to your kind of full size, but like, that's a pretty quick vice to the top, I guess.

spk_2:   6:02
Yeah, that's very strange, actually, I was 20 when I win my first world title. And when I in 2001 I went for junior worlds are first time I went to Junior World was in 2000 in Italy and there was like still a road rider. Um, and I was writing team pursuit And also just kilometre for fun and sprint for fun. I kind of like sprint in kilometre more than team pursuit. So and I said, Okay, next year, junior world, I want to go for a kilo and, um and in 2001 you start doing a little bit more Jayme and work specifically on Kilo and then I want And also a few weeks later, um, the national coach asked me, Okay, in a few weeks, there is a World Cup in Mexico City. Do you want to ride there? And if you go there, you can maybe qualify for balls Seniors in Antwerp. And I was like, Yeah, okay. Ah, you know, I want to go there and ah, after the after junior world, I had to stay and it wasn t down. I had to stay there a couple of weeks and they arrange some ah family. I can stay with and still train on the track there. And Tito and ah Yeah. For a couple of weeks, I flew from New York to Mexico City. And there I did. Ah, I did. A woke up. I don't know which place I finished to. No one in one minute, something one minute and five tens or something. And I did one or two going to five, which was pretty cool time. Of course it was Junior world record. Also at that time. And, um yeah, then I went to Antwerp. Uh, senior worlds. I finished night on the kilo. Ah, and you know who was a A place that will. One kilometre,

spk_0:   8:06
Chris.

spk_2:   8:08
We don't know.

spk_0:   8:09
Ah, Loss, Craig.

spk_2:   8:13
Oh,

spk_1:   8:13
Chris toe the way.

spk_2:   8:17
It was a

spk_0:   8:18
doozy. He'd be disappointed with that.

spk_1:   8:23
It

spk_2:   8:23
was a very nice striking. And for on that again in 2000 2001. And then Ah, you I went to 2002 worlds. I went a little bit faster. 2003 again, a little bit faster. But in 2003 I was already very quick. In 200 metre, I finish, I think 16 qualification. And you know what first qualification Craig Craig was? I

spk_0:   8:56
was gonna say Felix English, but that would hurt Christine. What,

spk_2:   9:00
2003 year, You know, and then, eh? So then I was already pretty clothes on in 2004 worlds. Uh, yeah, I tried Tio have to do a good kilo there. And I finished the in Ah, in no one. And ah, who want Chris one? I think you know, a second. So I was pretty happy with that And then that you have a day after two days after the spring tournament, I want So that was a big surprise. And But if you look back, it went pretty quick to you when you're 20. Um, now, to become broke sprint champion, I would have never expected that There was a big surprise for me again. They always Well, maybe maybe Kilo was was a good chance for me because I I never expected I would be a sprinter because I wasn't built like a sprinter. I had good endurance. Um, yeah, I was more built for a kilo,

spk_0:   10:02
Phil. I guess that's kind of the same thing with you and London. Like you were kind of just trucked in the deep end all of a sudden, and then you've got a major result. Like Like what was that like for you? And then and then tear to suddenly have that success?

spk_1:   10:14
Um, I don't know. It just comes quickly, doesn't it? Like like everything happened so quick. Like it was only like, a year and 1/2 before that. Where was for hiding for Germany in the junior World championships, scraping a bronze medal. And then year and 1/2 later, two years later, you win the Olympic oath matter. But I think this was just, like a sudden spike in form. And then you get put into the A team is worth There was for me suddenly, like someone like the team believes in you. And, you know, you have to do your best to riding with Chris was already won three gold medals at the time, so yeah, I don't know. Yeah,

spk_0:   10:53
on day two, I didn't realise actually before. That is interesting. He did the road cycling when you were growing up. Because, of course, later in your career, you you look for the likes of likes Avello, NTN, all that stuff, a supporter later. But when you left speedskating, did you did you immediately go to spending Or was there a gap in between weeded mainly Lord cycling then on to sprint?

spk_2:   11:13
Yeah. So onto junior worlds in 2000 and Italy. I was a road rider on da Yeah, I did classics everything. When you when you junior junior? Ah, yeah. And you live almost like a professional even when you're 15 16 years old. So, yeah, I was very much endurance rider than

spk_1:   11:36
it's you, innit? Big racist. Sorry. Did you win any big races as a junior road racist

spk_2:   11:43
junior, Yet I wanna and all of its goal its flesh. So it's always

spk_1:   11:48
a bunch

spk_2:   11:48
sprint. So which is good for me, you know? So I want. When I was 15 16 I won a lot of races on the road already. Um, I was also trained by ah trainers from Rob a bank. So they had, like, a special programme. They pick up young riders and they help them developing on themselves. S So I was always already on the radar with Rabobank team and ah, but Indian. Yeah, I decided to just do what I like most. And that was the trick. And I wanted to see how good I can become And at that time also my trainer from Rob a bank. He was, um ah, he was a national coach for tribal Andi Hey went to Sydney Olympics and try alone and he was also the track there and he said, Yeah, the one kilometre this perfect event for you. So he said he advised me to go to Athens, try to go to Athens and to the Olympics and try to become a kilo rider. And um yeah, I tried and ah but at the same time during Athens Ah, I still was in contact with him and Rabobank wanted me to try the road again at that time. So I tried to go to on a 23 rebel one team and try the road again. But they're that wass too early for me and I said, Okay, I want to go to Beijing person, try to to become a toe, win more races on the track and but we always get kept in touch. And then after Beijing, I decided to it anyways,

spk_0:   13:36
So when you were kids, did you? It was it was your kind of ultimate passion to go to the Olympics or was it's like Winnetou defence or something like that. Because when you're that age, like people tend to dream a little bit,

spk_2:   13:48
Yeah, when I want to get I always wanted to be a road rider. You and I never I didn't know track that much. I just started learning track. Um, maybe 99 2000 when our and the first rial track event I watch was Manchester World Championships in 2000 the legendary world championships.

spk_0:   14:10
What actually pulled you into track cycling?

spk_2:   14:15
Um, am I in the end, It's not about, ah, it's not about the money. Of course you need to. You need to make sure that amount of money But the most important thing, I think, is that you just do what you like. You know, if you don't really like road cycling on, do you have to do go through all this training efforts and and races on the road? You also have to do less nice roast road. Racist? Ah, yes. Operation the rain. If you don't really enjoy that, um, the life is a road rider. Them that the money isn't worth it. You know,

spk_1:   14:51
it's a hard life, isn't it? I condemn it

spk_2:   14:54
hard light that you see. Also, a lot of road riders. They They are good, but they don't really like it anymore. But they still get offered very good celery. So Yeah, they offered a new contract for two years. I don't know. Maybe Ah, 150 grand a year or 200 grand a year. So they continue because they are good and because of the money. But you can see they don't. They are almost depressed, you know. They don't like it any more where they continue because of the money. And I don't think that's a very good motivation. But it also hot to say no to that kind of money, of course.

spk_0:   15:37
Yeah. Well, Phil, Phil, Phil was a provider for one year.

spk_1:   15:41
I will say. I think I think you were what? I was a pro rider for one. Yeah, for team Wiggins. Yeah, I didn't get paid, Eddie, if against I didn't erase anything, just the Moscow

spk_0:   15:56
Do you know the best bit? Wass the They wanted to get a spot on the team for Kian Ahmadi, but because Phil was on there doing nothing, they couldn't find any space chicken

spk_1:   16:06
to be fair was probably was probably as useful as Chiana Madi would have. Bean. So he's terribly

spk_2:   16:17
you did not even one do one road race

spk_1:   16:19
now. I don't think anyone did any road races. Then there was the year off. 2016. I think there was just a track team on the road to of Britain after

spk_0:   16:32
Phil, you were talking about doing the ah, Phil, you were talking about doing the team time trial World championships.

spk_1:   16:37
Yeah, but I don't think that even entered in the end.

spk_0:   16:43
What man? One in Doha.

spk_1:   16:45
Yeah, I think the plan was for me to go first K and then just drove out. I

spk_0:   16:51
think I think one kilometres a bit ambitious for you.

spk_1:   16:54
Yeah, it's been too long.

spk_0:   16:57
Um so obviously taken back here again in Korea and progression and stuff like that. Obviously you kind of did go on Tio Tio Athens and picking up again. It's over, Metal there. Um I guess that's from that point on. You know, I think a lot people end up winning like a silver medal, and it gives him even more motivation to keep pushing on for the next time. The loans What can a place for you sitting about that point in your career?

spk_2:   17:20
Yes. Oh, yeah. I got talks with the Rabobank team to go on the road, but still, I had ambition tto win a gold medal at the Olympics. And yeah, that was the goal for for Beijing. I used to try to get a gold medal there. Um and in the meantime, you every year you have full championships, just tow, get roll right off, You know, on defend your world. I don't. And it was my Yeah qui here, actually. And in the end, ah ah, Every year I got better and better and I got a head off because in Athens, Ryan Bailey was the year I was the best printed everyone hearing in the sprint. I was also pretty close in the sprint between us. Um, but after Adam, see? Yeah, I kind of lost the shape over Athens, and he never really got to that level anymore. Ah, I better after Athens on DH, then I was ahead of everyone else. Ah, during that time, you know? Aah! I wanna spread Ah, Kieran kilometre! Um, So, yeah, that was going really well, but ah Yeah, after 2006. Maybe my best shape ever. Ah, in Bordeaux. I want to sprint in the Kirin. After that, it looked like everyone was catching up every year to me. So in 2007 at my local championships, I was I was good. But they were getting close to request even one of you in there. Um, and then the Beijing or Manchester World Championships with Jose. All the writers were a lot of writers on the same level again, Um, I think it benefits me more than other guys who are much stronger than me in the gym boats present. So, yeah, I think Yeah. What? We had there, we were still, you know, pioneering Andi. Just sometimes. Yeah. We didn't even understand what we were doing, but it worked on way. Took what? What was working. And yeah, we used it again for the next year, you know, and we tried some new things in training, For example, we feel it's not working, and way threw it away, but we were just still looking for things to get better, you know? And yes, sometimes, um, you find something

spk_1:   20:01
and

spk_2:   20:01
you use it. You begin

spk_0:   20:03
And then So then Then we ended up going towards the kind of big event, which was the 2008 Olympic Games. Andi, it seemed like this was an event with a lot of pressure on you. Like I think, when I was when I was a kid, I remember seeing like the whole kind of Koga bike, the lease. Um, you know, you're doing a lot of media appearances and things like that. Did you feel as if there was There was a lot of pressure building up in you for 2008 Olympics?

spk_2:   20:30
Yeah, of course. You know, the years before how to handle those kind of things. You know, it's like, um, like this sponsor, for example, Koga. They made a new bike, and, um, I was also paid by the sponsor. And, um, yeah, I was happy that, you know, cos they wanted to step in to track cycling because, um, the years before me, nobody even heard about track cycling, you know? So frank cycling and Hollande was getting bigger and bigger, and that was really a good thing, I think because we also had many years that yeah, nobody thought about track cycling, you know. So the biggest sports bettor bigger that it was also what we need, you know, we don't have We didn't have a lot of funding from government or from the Olympic Committee or from the federation we had to. If you want to bring budget or money in the sport, it has to be from companies, you know? So, um, yeah, that is the thing. You get, for example, over. They want to put money in sports, and that's a good thing. But like they say, also bring sometimes pressure, you know, on DH Not that it wass crazy, because I think in the end and athlete also, um, as the pressure from himself, you know, and Ah, and that was maybe too too much. Because when I went there, I knew I had to have I need I needed to go for a gold medal. You know, that's was the only thing that found it for me at that time. And that was maybe not a good state of mind, you know, to go to Olympics.

spk_0:   22:25
Do you think that was the downside of maybe no having older, more experienced guys in the team? Do you think that's where that kind of experience would have helped?

spk_2:   22:35
Yeah, for sure. Because when I think back now, I thought, OK, my level was not super good there. Um but I also felt like when you see training and everything you see Okay. Ah, the riches they goto cost. I cannot beat them. Ah, you know, he was Olympics. Um, that does something also with your head, you know? And, um And now I would say Okay, Yes. Go for it. Go for Olympic medal. You know, just probably is not gonna be gold, but just go for another medal, you know? But in the end, everything went wrong at the Olympic finding for the British. Everything when? Right. But for the Dutch, everything went wrong. Was crazy Olympics.

spk_0:   23:21
Yeah, well, everyone besides Mark Cavendish in the Olympics

spk_2:   23:25
way. Um, Booth was the only one without a medal, I think.

spk_0:   23:33
Yeah, I think so. I think I think someone had to lend him a medal to get in first class on the plane.

spk_2:   23:39
Everybody was Olympic champion, except for, uh, WeII.

spk_0:   23:44
We had Christian Union with blondes as well. Steven Burke with bronze silver here. He snuck in the snack in the, um

spk_2:   23:56
good one.

spk_1:   23:56
You say you let yourself down mentally or was there something going wrong, Wrong in the preparation as well? Or was it more that you've seen the British in training going fast and then mentally, you just

spk_2:   24:10
my My level wasn't Ah, my past. So, yeah, that's also not really nice when you do your training and did in your times are not super past, but still, you have to fight a force for every spot, you know, And that's what I did on DA. Um, I got into the sprint quarterfinals, but then I had the race programme, and then, yeah, he was just too fast for me. Um and so, yeah, I knew my level wasn't super good, so that's also difficult. Manly. And in the end, I knew. Okay. If I want to make a medal, it's gonna be at the Kirin. It's gonna have to be and has to be a secure in. And then in the nick you're in AA I crashed. So behind behind the peso, one guy clipped the wheel off another guy in front of them. He fell in front of me, and then ah, I just fell over. Then the race was done. You know, you cannot restart because it was off the half left or something. Um, so that was it earlier than I knew. Okay, this is not gonna It's not gonna be a nice storey anymore.

spk_0:   25:27
It's nothing to worry about. I mean, both you guys across the Olympic Games. Um, anyway Ah, so he fell. So basically, what was going to say was with with the bush seemed so a lot of people like that, but it's kind of just basically burst onto the scene and started winning everything. Was that like a shock to the other nations? Into the Dutch into yourself?

spk_2:   25:49
Yeah, because I had ah, certain, for example, I have a time in my head. Okay. I want to do right. 99 and two on the metre, then. Yeah, sure. I can. Ah, you know, I make a chance to become Olympic champion on DA other worlds. Before, I always rode like 5 10 or 14 be around that. You know, low and ah, almost under 10 seconds. And I thought, OK, Olympics monthly possible. You know, ride 99 and then, Yeah, it's a good start to get the get the gold medal, and then you see Ah, the British. They right. Ah, Chris wrote 98 Something like that, you know? Ah, like I didn't even know I wasn't even thinking about that time, you know? So, yeah, that was crazy How fast they were going. No, it's incredible.

spk_1:   26:45
You don't even qualify with that time.

spk_2:   26:48
No. Yeah, that at that time it was just super fast and still. Ah, I know many writers, I think. And right that time with that here, you know, it's just a gift that gave him that. I'm a peak has brought the massive beer. Like they do know for sure he would go fast also.

spk_0:   27:09
So, you know, you know, you've been in the sport for for so long Do you do sometimes, like, wish that you knew, you know, know about the gears, aboutthe speeds about the training. You know, Phil just said it there. You know, it's like like 99 today. Wouldn't even qualify you for a World Cup.

spk_2:   27:28
Yeah, when you when you were an athlete, you always think about okay. I have to think about time's way are going to do. And 20 years. You know, we're in 10 years, and you want to be ahead of ahead of your time. And you're always looking for, um, where to improve. And you have to be very smart and creative with this. And then maybe you can you can be a step ahead of the competition, but yeah, in the end, when you Ah, when I you know, for example, see my bike or see my skin suit I was riding with or Ah, yeah, whatever the tyres or whatever. Yeah, you think shipment so easy to make some games with this, you know? And yeah, we didn't do it at that time. And it's just not not so smart. So and now you have to have in your head. Okay, We're coming improve just constantly. And also now that the Olympics is postpone one more year, you have another year or thinking. Yeah, well, can we improve again? You know,

spk_0:   28:41
I know for sure. And so after that kind of disappointment of the Olympics, that's when you decided to go to level bank. You decided to take them up on their offer.

spk_2:   28:50
Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, just directly after Olympics already. I already decided to do it basically before Beijing, and, um Yeah, OK, Olympic didn't go Well, um, and I just started training a couple of weeks off, you know? So just Stein doing road, right?

spk_0:   29:15
And how did you How did you find that transition? Because, obviously, you know, more famously in the UK loss, Edgar attempted to switch from track splinter into Lord Cyclist. You know, Chiana Maddie's seems to have managed to have done it from spent two individual pursuit of the track, which isn't as big a jump. But did you find the jump? A cz hardest. Maybe those two guys find it.

spk_2:   29:35
Yeah, it was Ah, yeah. Sometimes it was very hard, but sometimes it's also easy. You know, um, because you also have, um, races that are, um, not a crazy high level. Some races suits you really well, Flat cross, um, and Indian. It's also not that complicated. You know, you just have to get the miles in. That's the most important thing. And someone that's really boring. Maybe also the same time. It's very not, but yeah, if you strong in the head and you just get your kilometres in the legs and then you can see the result.

spk_0:   30:16
And this is what we something that we've all heard. But, you know, whenever I'm out like a sponsorship event, someone will come up to me and say, Why don't you switch dividing the Tour de France and then my responses? Well, because first of all, it's really hard on second of all, because I don't think I'd be able to find a sponsor, which we did, which would look after me for the for those number of years to be able to start getting results because it takes so much time to build up. Did you have a sponsor that really looked after you, or were you getting results quite quickly?

spk_2:   30:47
Um, well, the directly next year, 2009 I did road races. So I wrote for Rabobank under 23 team and, um and yeah, so I did. Ah, a lot of races and it went well. And then I got the offer from survey low esteem for 2010 the right for that team and also from Robin. And then yeah, I decided to go to surveil. Oh, and yeah, that was very nice year already.

spk_0:   31:18
How long did it take to go from being a track splinter to start picking up results in the polluter

spk_2:   31:24
off you. Wait, not not not half year for that. But I want my first professional race. So I want some road races with under 23 But you write also pro racist. Um, but my first pro win was in 2010 Um, and plastic all muddy out. It's ah, classic in Spain and ah, yeah, before I wrote Qatar, it's a very hard race. Ah, in the course wins. And the week after I wrote Plocica Oh, Maria and I beat the Cavendish in this print, so Ah, yeah, it was ah, one year later.

spk_1:   32:10
So you genetically really gift? It's where Because I can't even sit on the local bunch right here. E

spk_2:   32:17
I just training. And I think also I started when I was a kid. I was a road writer. So if you do that until yeah, you're 16. 17 you also write classic, you know, with 120 kilometres. So, yeah, I had that experience still, and, um and then yeah, also the the sprinters legs from the track. And then yeah, I had to get the base back in and lose a little bit of muscle. And then I was ever so good.

spk_0:   32:49
Mmm. Phil, you also did something along those lines and laces when you were the kids. So why can't you switch?

spk_1:   32:56
I don't know. That's what I'm trying to figure out. Because I've done after. I've only done two years really of road racing. And then when there was a junior this well switch Teo sprinting so that one, like, classic like Well, which which wass 90 k long that got dropped. So I don't think I had had it in the first place.

spk_0:   33:19
Yeah, but I think it is good to put that into context. Like how bigger jump is Because, Phil, I don't know what you say to people when they say to you, why don't you like the tutor funds? But my responses like it would take me so long to get

spk_1:   33:29
there. I always say I compared to use emboldened mo Mo Farah, like one can run the marathon. One can only run 10 seconds. So that's probably the best comparison you can give to people to show the difference

spk_0:   33:43
on the tee. Oh, here's a Here's another question. I get asked a lot by people events. Um, you know, they always say like, Okay, so you know, you and carve, like, say, myself and calves like who's Who's the fastest Spencer? They kind of want to know the answer to that. Um, do you think like a lot a lot of these guys that are kind of finishing? You know, top five professional bases have got the potential to be really talented splinters on the track as well? Do you think it's actually Noah's far away is Phil and I think in terms of discipline

spk_2:   34:12
Um, yeah, it's a good question, but yeah, if you look at the the omnium Riders on and if you look at their flying laps, it's still really fast, you know, Um, I think in Rio I don't know Viviani. I don't know what what lifetime he did, but I think it was still really fast when he did. Ah, but the biggest problem is the is the start. So flying flying efforts, I think they can beat us. So maybe, for example, here in, um but yeah, standing standing start. That's something completely different than roll cycling. I think

spk_0:   34:54
on DH So obviously we we talked about, you know, the winds that you had, you know, being Mark Cavendish, winning two stage of the tour turkey. But I have to ask you about something which went viral. Um, which wass the crash?

spk_2:   35:09
Yeah.

spk_0:   35:11
Um, where you picked up a band off the back of it. Um, but there's this video went all over the internet for months, I think. Ah. So so what's your kind of recollection off that can a famous crash where dollar MP ended up in the bar earlier.

spk_2:   35:25
Um, yeah, that was in Turkey, and ah, I had Ah. Ah, it was a lost age and Ah, yeah, it was going to be a bunch sprint. And that one at one moment just, I don't know. A couple of 100 metres before the finish, I was just boxed in and I was getting really close to the barriers. And at one moment, I I started to fall into the barriers and you as a real reaction, I hope Hey was riding next to me. Yeah, I tried to stay upright and I will hold him and yeah, I crashed and I Yeah, I drive. Drag him with me, but I crushed the Yeah, basically. Yeah. And you know the barriers. They have these

spk_1:   36:11
little legs,

spk_2:   36:12
you know? Yeah. My friend will hit one of the legs, and I crashed, and I was also already Yeah, in a gap that wasn't really there. Um, so that was a big mistake for me. Um, and then the I crushed tonight, try to keep upright, holding myself on onto him.

spk_0:   36:36
Don't fend off on DH. That brings up an interesting question. Swell about, like, when is a gap too small? So, you know, obviously, in Q And it's all about getting into, like, small gaps and trying to get away with it. Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. Which which of the two sports would you say? Arm or close? In that instance,

spk_2:   36:56
Um, I think the road this much more dangerous than, um Then the then the cure in, um, like sometimes you're in the road, you have a lot of things. Ah, corners, barriers. Ah, I don't know. Ah ah, A lot of road furniture.

spk_1:   37:15
Tell us where you

spk_2:   37:16
can crash in Russia on and at the same time you have like in a bunch sprint, maybe 50 guys who want to stay in the crown. Um and yes, sometimes you know, you're riding with a team and you have to follow your team and ah, yeah, And then you come in a sandwich, for example, with with other teams and ah yeah, you making Ah, ah ah decision to go through it, for example on DH, because you have to follow your team. That's what you ah, what? The plan is with the team. You know, you have to stay with the writer. You lead out, for example, and he can maybe squeeze through. But then the gap is closed, but you still want to follow on in the final. Sometimes you go for it. And it can be really dangerous, of course. And yeah, a lot of times you have pressures like with this and that number meals.

spk_0:   38:11
And that's the main reason why Phil isn't actually a good lawyer because he's very scared of crashing.

spk_1:   38:16
I don't like sitting and I like I like queuing up in traffic now, to be fair, after I've got so much stick from you guys started filtering through, I'd like to be safe.

spk_0:   38:25
Phil won't go up the inside he would just sit behind the car until the car moves.

spk_2:   38:31
So that is good or not?

spk_1:   38:32
Yeah, it's good to save.

spk_2:   38:34
Can't be driving on a bike. Okay,

spk_1:   38:37
It's safe

spk_2:   38:37
way. Have cycling parts. So that's that's a good thing in Holland.

spk_1:   38:41
A cz good.

spk_0:   38:43
And then sew, like, kind of waited. The decision comes after, you know, being with other banks Avello ntn to switch back to the track again.

spk_2:   38:51
Well, I wass ah riding in aa 2015 Cora mpm and ah, yeah, I was Ah, yeah, kind of finished with weed road cycling, and I had a few bad crushes. Um, and I did some any meantime, also some track races, but not not crazy. Crazy much, you know, like a 2011. I did. Ah, world medicine. There's some European championship stuff like that and, um on then, in 2015 yeah, I did some more attract track racing, and I did also the team Sprint Nationals with my old training buddies and ah ah racing colleagues, I don't know. And Tim Bell and uh, yeah, we did quite good. And I thought, Oh, shit, it's Ah, it's quite nice actually, to do with inch print again. And then I did the nationals at the end of the year 2015 on wass. Yeah, quite good. I want the I want a kilo and I want to sprint. And I was just beating Ah, the guys from the national team. And I was like, Ok, ah, I said to Rene, Well, is it possible Lycan? Ah, yeah, I can do walk up or something. Or is it possible I can go to Olympics? They said you have to write. Ah, well done first and then we'll championships. And then we and I woke up. We did in Hong Kong. Um So I got the point there and then I did bolt in moment. I got second in kilo, which was good enough for him to continue. And then we had Ah, we had a trial before Rio and I there. I qualified myself for ah for a tin judgement and also spread them. Karen,

spk_0:   40:49
where did the motivation come from? Teo to stop those cycling but still stay in cycling because you think for a lot of people, if they're if they've done track cycling before they end up doing good cycling, They'd probably just call it a day. But what made you continue?

spk_2:   41:05
I don't know. I think the love for the sport Um and, um yeah, just, ah, very enjoyable to train and to the right races on the track. Um, and also, I got an invitation for the curing in Japan. Two d'oh God, too, right there and that. That's also something I really enjoy doing. And ah, yeah. So, actually, yeah, I still have a by the nice life as a as a trick cyclist,

spk_1:   41:35
do you find the training? I'm a lot easier on the track than compared to the road.

spk_2:   41:41
It's Yeah, I think it's easier in the end. Um, yeah, Um, but it's Mmm. On the other hand, can be also more difficult. You know, if you have shouldn't targets in training, for example in the gym, Um, yeah, you can put yourself and it can be really hard also, you

spk_1:   42:01
know, I think it's men. It's mentally probably tougher because you get timed every single training session, and he tried to beat you your time. But on the road, I guess you can just ride around five hours and, you know, think about something else.

spk_2:   42:14
Yeah, but yeah. But also, that's not the case anymore on the road, like you don't do. Not many writers that you just do five hours brewed lager. But, ah, you know, go on the road. They have, like, a lot of effort stopped like that. It's another temple anymore.

spk_0:   42:35
How was how was it coming back into the Dutch team with having ah, any wolf as your coach? Because you would have ridden against him back in the day when you left track. Cycling was a bit strange that have one of your competitors coaching you?

spk_2:   42:50
Um, yeah, he waas Ah, yeah. He was always a very good writer. And, uh, also, he was very smart writer, like technically and yeah, he always knew what he was doing, and he always had a plan. And when I left are the track. He came as a national coach to the to the Dutch team, And you basically, he continued building what was already there, you know, and continue developing young writers. Um, so I was quite nice that he got much more structure into the into the national team than when I left,

spk_0:   43:32
But I want to talk about. So what? What's kind of kept you going? And you touched on Japan? Um, kind of keeping you going. And so to explain, five on this listening at home. Ah, track cycling in Japan specifically Q And is ah, professional. It's a bit like an a Greyhound racing or horse leasing punters come along and place bets and you and things like that. But you seem to really cannot thrive out there in Japan with the other nationalities from around the world. Why do you love Japan so much? And what do you What do you think? Why do you think it keeps you going?

spk_2:   44:03
Yeah, it's nice to make money also which I

spk_1:   44:06
businesses.

spk_2:   44:09
So yeah, I go, They're like, Ah, yeah, in the middle or in between Olympics. I go there. Ah, 56 months and ah, you do two words free care and racism month and ah, yeah, you can earn a good salary in Japan and then so that's a very nice aspect. But it also nice that it's something similar as track cycling, but also something completely different that you write on still buys or big outdoor tracks and ah ah, you know, wearing Big Elmer's and ah ah, it's Ah, it's a very nice ah ah, part of cycling, I think. And it's going to get your keep your fitness and to develop that on, develop your tactics. Ah, while riding a trade bike. But still, it's nice to go back to Wouldn't track again. And, yeah, it feels it feels different. You know, you feel a bit refreshed up the Japan.

spk_1:   45:16
Do you actually enjoy living out there? Because, diesel, there's pretty much nothing nothing around there. And we tried to find go out for dinner when we well there and there was literally nothing. Nothing. They're powerful McDonald's.

spk_2:   45:30
Then there are some good restaurants there. Um, so when you live there, you find the good places, but the few other Yeah, week or a couple of weeks. It's difficult. Teo, do you know the area? Well, um, but yeah, we know we don't always stay in ah issue. We also go sometimes to Tokyo or other cities. Um, and explorer chip in a little bit on. Also, when you do the racist, it's all over Japan. So you travel there when it's far a day before, and you come to Ah city where you wouldn't normally never come. So you get to know the country also well, and that's that's not because of the races. It's not that boring. But if you if you dare for a longer period it can be a little bit boring. But on the other hand, you have everything what you need for for training and poor living for your sports, you know, so you can write on the road. You have a lot of tracks. You have a good team there, so, yeah, you can do whatever you want,

spk_0:   46:41
do you? Do you still find it weird in Japan s so basically like, you know, we always hear from guys who come back saying that like, it's is bonkers. Like you're in isolation before the vase, so you can't fix the betting. You have to see what gear's you're gonna avoid. You have to announce your tactics. Do you still find it strange or do you think you've got used to it? Do you feel more part of the culture?

spk_2:   47:02
Ah, yeah. Ah, yeah. Four. Plus, it's not really strange anymore. Um, and you understand why they'll take all these ah measurements, um, measures. I think I have to say, um but ah, yeah, it's especially when you do your first race and you hand over your of over home. That's always a moment. It's a little bit difficult. And, ah, and especially the Thursday you're so used to have a mobile phone with you. Um, you know, when you go to a door that you automatically they look promoter mobile. But after a couple of days to yeah, you really switched off everything and just you've become really relaxed. You know, I think it's good to have moments of this during the year. Do not be on your phone on just, ah, speak with people or read a book or, ah, something like that

spk_0:   48:06
on DH Phil, you said you saw some pretty interesting stuff when you were there. You saw like guys jogging and they were, like, isolated and went to visit people for the whole time. They were then Cuban school. You talk a little bit more about that.

spk_1:   48:17
Oh, yes, it's It's a weird place, I think. I think they're only allowed to go home for, like, a week, a year. It's a true to you. Like the Kerensky. I

spk_2:   48:26
think I think they can go back home during the weekend. But everybody stays. I think you're in school and you still securing the students. So I think you're in school. The students they have to call AAA a lot of rules that they have to shaved their heads. For example. The girls have got the hair. It's like a military base camp, basically a military education on the bike. Basically,

spk_1:   48:55
you

spk_2:   48:55
can see like that

spk_1:   48:56
very much in a week,

spk_2:   48:57
and they can still go back on. But everybody always saying, and they also have the hand over their phones. They're so they don't have a mobile phone. Well,

spk_1:   49:07
yeah, like that's like pay phones in the reception of the care in school and, like three computers were the thing that connects with the Internet. That's all we were allowed to see as well. You weren't allowed to see, like how they left for anything. I was quite strict. What's very interesting is like a different world.

spk_0:   49:25
Yeah, on DH. So let's move on to kind of like the final bit, which is more kind of like what's happening these days. So, um, I wanted to ask a little bit about, um, you know, beat cycling team and the decision with the CIA and the trade teams and things like that. Um, And then also kind of how the doctor looking for talking with 2021 on how the delay effects you goes?

spk_2:   49:50
Um, yeah. There are a lot of question marks. Still, with the current situation, I think it's good that it's possible it was a little bit crazy that they waited so long for it. Um, And for beat, Yeah. We still don't know exactly what they're gonna do with commercial teams during the World Cups or the nation league. So that's also still a question mark. Um, but yeah, it looked like that they were gonna allow ah, trace him again. Yeah, it's not gonna send. Sure. Um, and also you have for the Olympics. I was I'm really wondering what they will do with the calendar, you know. Um, well, there Yeah. When will the races be? And nobody really knows at the moment.

spk_1:   50:42
Yeah.

spk_2:   50:43
Eso is quite difficult to make a plan already towards the Olympics for everyone. We saw a very, very crazy situation at the moment. It's okay. Chaos.

spk_0:   50:56
Yeah. Andi, obviously it's it. It's maybe not the best time for the Dutch because they've got such amazing form across many disciplines, but probably most, most notably the team spent where they're a good bit ahead of Phil. Sorry, Phil.

spk_1:   51:12
Tell me, have you written?

spk_0:   51:18
Um, but do you believe that those guys Ah, we'll be able to hang on to that gap that we have ahead of the British, even though it's gonna be another year towards towards Tokyo?

spk_2:   51:29
Yeah, I think it's Ah ah can be beneficial for the bridges writers, of course, because you and the Gap was pretty big at the last world championships. And, um, yeah, of course, everybody is possible. But yeah, I think it was one second in the final or at both fastest times. And that's Ah, it's a big day for a couple of months to cover. Um, so I think it's good for the British. They have some more time, tio work on that, you know?

spk_1:   52:02
Thanks. And ah,

spk_2:   52:06
yes, the Dutch. Yeah, they had them that they have to stay ahead. And I also think wisely what they can do to improve, to keep improving, to keep together. So yeah.

spk_1:   52:18
What do the duck thing about, but do the Dutch do Note that there going so fast?

spk_2:   52:24
I have no idea. I have no idea. Training. Ah, normal. Uh, I surprised me. Also, a

spk_1:   52:39
very talented drivers in there.

spk_2:   52:43
Yeah, talented riders. Yeah, destruction the team. Everybody knows what they must do to be at their best. Um um and but they are still at the world in in Berlin. The time was amazing what they did in the intense moment. I thought I thought, maybe they're gonna do just gonna make almost about record, Just, you know, like what? You want a tea or something? I had that in my head and a When you write down the times, what do you think they were going to write? What they did. It's just so much faster. You know, I never expect that.

spk_0:   53:25
Do you think we're starting to see the the ideal body type for sprinting? Esso? I guess in my head, it seems like you know, a lot of guys like, you know, Kevin Sue Mike Crampton. Chris Hoy. You know, the slightly taller guys, slightly thinner, are being replaced by guys who are a little bit smaller on built like houses. Basically,

spk_2:   53:45
Um, yeah, it is hard to say it's August 8. Ah, I also know because I'm on me to find it. Yeah, that's not a good thing. Ah, but yeah. If you if you look at all the things that can be can be good for Team Sprint, for example, you have to be like, um and you have to produce a lot of walls. And you are You have to be also smaller to be pero, um yeah, I can understand that when you have been more Ah ah, it's gonna be beneficial. But yeah, way

spk_0:   54:28
still got Mike later, and there's put it all on pretty fast. So there's there's a few tall guys holding out there. Um, I was I was gonna say, you know, when 2008 you said, you know, the pressure of the Mormon got a bit much on DH. That was maybe a time where you felt like there was someone older in the team to be able to help you. Are you finding yourself having a bit of a little within the team because you're such an experience later helping out the younger guys that were there with the pleasure that's coming, because obviously there's a lot of pleasure leading up to 2021 because everyone expects them to win gold.

spk_2:   55:00
Yeah, Um, yeah, I just I just the only thing what I do, I don't want to be their mental coach or something. I also cannot be their mental coach. But, you know, what I just do is just tell them my storey is what happened to me, you know, in the past. And, ah, what I did well and what I did wrong. Um, and that's only the those experience I can share. But, you know, they have a lot of experience than that's already. And, um yeah, on Devon, No noble of knowledge already, you know, by themselves on. And also just look at the pressure they have. They seemed to cope really well with it, and they handled it really well. For example. Yeah, he he always delivers. You know what he wants? Um, yeah. You don't see me. He has difficulties with the pressure, you know? Yeah. There are always guys. Yeah, and especially of olympics. Could be something else, you know, But the only thing I can do I want to do is just tell some old storeys if they want to hear, you know, if they are for it, you

spk_0:   56:19
could tell them how hard it was back in the day. That's what Cosette stars all the time. Um, so I think I think it begins. Just start winning at the podcast. But we always give people on opportunity in the end, Teo, plug what they want. So if you want people to follow you on social media followed Beate cycling team. You can basically say what you want. No.

spk_2:   56:43
Yeah. Followed by talking Chloe on Instagram.

spk_1:   56:48
I actually got a question. What's what's what's what's next for you? Are you going to keep going after these Olympics or, um, you got the Olympics? Yes.

spk_2:   57:05
Ah, why? I don't know. I just see it the day by day, you know?

spk_1:   57:12
Could be next week.

spk_2:   57:15
Maybe tomorrow I make up, I want to quit. Then I quit. You know,

spk_1:   57:18
e I know I

spk_2:   57:21
did. What about you guys? Well, my day I'm sorry. I don't

spk_1:   57:26
think

spk_2:   57:27
you can make you can make a comeback now. You have time enough. I would, but I'm I had a crash today on my body Can I think I might need surgery on my knee, so I'm out for a little while. All right,

spk_0:   57:41
Phil, you're gonna make a comeback.

spk_1:   57:42
What? That's a year to go with. 60 moments ago, isn't it? So I'm gonna try my best. You know, I thought, um, yeah, well, so I'm the reserve at the moment, but year and 1/2 a lot can change. So in a trauma best, Andy, I want to be the best reserve I can be. Is what if I stay? I end up as a reserve, so, yeah, from the best,

spk_2:   58:07
there will be, like, a qualification moment. Still for you guys, Or is this

spk_1:   58:11
just a game? And I already know. I don't really know what's gonna happen. They've postponed the selection Olympic selection. But, um, now, I don't think anyone knows at the moment what's going to happen to illness.

spk_2:   58:25
Okay, there.

spk_0:   58:28
So we'll stay tuned to find out how Phil gets on on deaf to your boss. That iris tomorrow. So Ah, thank you very much. Guys. It's been a pleasure on that shooting next week.

spk_1:   58:40
Oh,

spk_2:   58:41
soon. Thank you, Joe.