The Art of Gift-Giving: Unwrapping the Emotions Behind Our Presents.
Gift-giving is more than just handing over a wrapped present; it's a symbol of communication and connection.
How can a simple gesture, like a bowl of homemade muffins, speak louder than the most lavish of presents?
We look at the unspoken rules of giving. Can the pressure to pick out the perfect gift make us lose sight of what truly matters? And do we give out of obligation or from the heart?
Join Robin Kermode and Sian Hansen for another fun podcast episode that celebrates the true spirit of giving and what we are communicating when we give.
The Art of Gift-Giving: Unwrapping the Emotions Behind Our Presents.
Gift-giving is more than just handing over a wrapped present; it's a symbol of communication and connection.
How can a simple gesture, like a bowl of homemade muffins, speak louder than the most lavish of presents?
We look at the unspoken rules of giving. Can the pressure to pick out the perfect gift make us lose sight of what truly matters? And do we give out of obligation or from the heart?
Join Robin Kermode and Sian Hansen for another fun podcast episode that celebrates the true spirit of giving and what we are communicating when we give.
Hello, it's Sian Hansen again, and I'm here, as ever, with Robin Kermode. Hello and well, it's really today about the art of giving a gift, isn't?
Speaker 2:it. Oh, that's so kind of you, Sian. You didn't need to give me a gift today.
Speaker 1:I didn't you didn't, I didn't. But listen, this must be, this must be ancient behavior. I mean, it's what makes us human. We've been giving gifts to each other for well, since time, in memorial, and we see it in all the ancient art and music and everything we know. This is true, don't we?
Speaker 2:Well, if you think back to, even in Judeo-Christian terms, in terms of the wise men arriving, they arrive with gifts, with gifts. So a lot of old stories have stories around pharaohs and going way, way back in history, people turn up with gifts, with gifts exactly Adoration and adoration.
Speaker 1:But before we get going, I think we really have to talk about when you give a gift, and maybe not ancient times, we're just let's say when do you give a gift?
Speaker 2:Well, you give a gift in many ways. I mean, you give a gift to say thank you. I give a gift to say you love somebody.
Speaker 1:But are those a vehicle weight Robin? I mean sorry, I know we're.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, maybe give somebody a gift. If they're very ill in hospital, you give them a gift.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I might have a different weight than if you're just saying thank you for a dinner party or thank you whatever. Maybe if you say you love somebody, maybe you have to give diamonds.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, please, Exactly.
Speaker 2:And maybe you've worked with a company for a long time and they give you a mantle clock you don't want. After 50 years of service they don't really want this mantle clock, but thank you very much. So we get given presents a lot and sometimes I mean I had a friend whose father never gave them birthday presents but he gave them unbirthday presents, so during the year whenever he felt they needed something because they were feeling a bit low, he'd give them a present.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's really nice.
Speaker 2:Rather than on the day, because he felt out of duty.
Speaker 1:He said when we talk about when you give a gift I mean you've mentioned a few to say thank you or to say I love you, but, as you've just hinted at, there's celebrations like galore isn't there.
Speaker 2:There's birthdays anniversaries, Wedding lists people actually tell you what they want.
Speaker 1:What they want.
Speaker 2:Or maybe a baby's born and you want to give them something.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Or, like you said, or you're ill and you're recovering, or I don't know other serious life events like divorce or death or whatever. There's always this moment to give a gift. I have to say, the most poignant moment for me if I receive something is when somebody's saying I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:So it's the thought behind it, so it's what it means.
Speaker 1:It's very demonstrable to say I'm sorry with a gift. Demonstrative sorry. It's very demonstrative to say sorry with a gift.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, it's concrete, isn't it? It's actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's reaffirming something.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's just really shallow of me, because, sorry, somebody says it verbally and says I'm sorry, that's fine, but I'll probably forget it.
Speaker 2:It also depends on how they say it, because they might go sorry, but I'll probably forget it in an hour or two.
Speaker 1:But if there's a bowl of gorgeous muffins or something, no, no, stick with that one.
Speaker 2:So if I ever need to say sorry to you, I'll buy you a bowl of muffins. That's fine. Don't go with the diamonds or the flowers. I'll go with the muffins it's fine, Flowers, flowers, no, it's muffins now no but what I mean is is there what you've got?
Speaker 1:it's something in front of you that just keeps reminding you that somebody maybe needed to say sorry, and that goes the other way too. If you want to say sorry, I think a gift is a good thing.
Speaker 2:But it's always with all these gifts it's the thought behind it, isn't it? It's not the gift itself.
Speaker 1:I know my mother used to say to me never let a chance go by to give a gift. Oh, that's nice yeah if you feel the impulse, then do it.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And never double question yourself. Just always do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, when in doubt, give a gift Great that's fine.
Speaker 1:So we're now at the point where we're going to talk about when you give it. So when do you give a gift? And then we'll move on to what it communicates. But when do you give a gift? When is it important?
Speaker 2:Well, you give a gift. Obviously, you give a gift when you want someone to feel something. So if you feel they want to be reassured or encouraged or loved or valued or seen. And we've talked a lot in this podcast about communication and how communication really is about making the other person feel valued, making the other person feel seen. So if you give them a present, it shows that you have thought about them and therefore actually demonstratively show that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes sense, so I think that's when you do it because you want to make no, you want to encourage the other person to feel something. I think that's when you give a gift, is it always positive. Well, I mean, you could give somebody a barbed present, couldn't you?
Speaker 1:Do you know what problem? I had a boyfriend long before I met you, and his mother didn't like me, there was no one before me. His mother didn't like me very much, and for Christmas she gave me a bottle of perfume that was called poison.
Speaker 2:Okay, so she was trying to encourage this relationship, that's absolutely brilliant, Very funny.
Speaker 1:I opened it and went ooh, that's a message.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that's a barbed. I suppose you could also give somebody a size eight dress when you know they're size 14. Yes, because there are things you could do with that. Yes, you could do that, you could do that. Or vice versa, you could do that.
Speaker 1:But I think there's other times in corporate life where, I mean in corporate life there's a lot of gift giving and particularly, let's say, for instance, when you leave a job, like you mentioned, you know that they'll give you a gift, probably unwanted and probably something they've always given to everybody who leaves.
Speaker 2:Everybody gets the same one, so there's no value to it. In a sense, that's interesting, isn't it? Because if everyone gets the same, do you feel any value from that present?
Speaker 1:Probably not, but it's usually now pretty old fashioned idea, like you said, a clock. An engraved something or a pen or something which is going to stay in the back of a drawer probably Graved piece of silver, and probably something along the lines of a scarf, a tie, a pen all those things that you really didn't want. Actually, that's a good point. What do you do with an unwanted gift?
Speaker 2:Well, it's interesting because my grandmother gave my father some ginger marmalade one Christmas and it was just a small part of a Christmas present. But here's some ginger marmalade. My father said, oh, of course that's lovely, thank you so much. And then he found it actually not to his taste at all. But the trouble is because he'd said he loved it for the next 25 years he received ginger marmalade for Christmas and he got to the point where he went. I can't now tell her because it's gone on too long. So I think actually if somebody gives you a present, it's much better to go. It's really lovely. A few weeks later you can say I did try it, a bit spicy for me, it's not really perfect for me, you'll never get it again. It's much better to do that and have 25 years worth of wasted money.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I would do 25 years of ginger marmalade. I wouldn't say anything.
Speaker 2:What do your mother? Or do you just generally?
Speaker 1:I wouldn't say I don't like it. I would never say if somebody gives me a gift, I would never say I'm saying not at the time, but maybe six months later or something.
Speaker 2:So you say, you know, the ginger marmalade was nice, but not my favorite, because then otherwise you will get it again, surely?
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, maybe, yeah, no, you're right.
Speaker 2:Actually, you probably will get it again I might get Christmas presents from a lot of clients, but they're corporate presents and you know that a whole mailing list of people are being sent them and it's always lovely to get a present because you think, well, at least I'm on their A-list, that's nice. You get a bunch of dates or you get, whatever it might be, some corporately engraved thing, but it's still nice to have. But it doesn't feel particularly special because everybody gets it, true?
Speaker 1:No, no, I can see that it's nice. Thank you, no, that's absolutely true. And now we're sort of bleeding into this idea of why you give a gift. This is the most important thing about the communication behind a gift is why do you give it? Now, sometimes, Robin, when I receive a gift, I think somebody's saying to me I demand you give me one. So it's transactional, it's very transactional and it's all about the value.
Speaker 2:Yes. So that's the kind of thing, maybe, if you go to a party at somebody's house and they give you a very expensive bottle of wine, when you go back to them you think, well, I have to take them an expensive bottle of wine because they've given me one, and then it becomes quite transactionally right.
Speaker 1:What do you think about that one-upmanship? What does that say about the people involved and what they're trying to say to each other?
Speaker 2:Well, I suppose it also depends. I mean, if you're going to a party at a millionaire's house I'm somewhere with loads of money then and they I'm sorry, if you have maybe a friend who's hugely wealthy, very successful, and they turn up and give you something very grand, you can't probably, or we can't probably, reciprocate that because we're not in that bracket. So then we feel a bit bad if we can't do that. So then we think, what can we do? And in that situation what we generally do is we come up with something quite thoughtful, not expensive, so we don't play the same game because we can't.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you see that I mean? So you think, don't play the game. Don't play this, a different game.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I don't think you should play the game anyway. No, we shouldn't play the game, even if you were Bill Gates, I don't think you should play the game.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:No, because then it's a no win.
Speaker 2:Yes. What does Bill Gates give Mark Zuckerberg for Christmas? I mean, I, you know where does it end.
Speaker 1:But I don't think you're telling each other anything by just except saying I'm powerful and rich.
Speaker 2:Yes, I don't think there's a point to it, but that's a signal.
Speaker 1:No, there's no, but let's, let's. Let's ground this down into what matters to you. Know this average Joe right, yes. And, and I consider myself one. So what matters is not the value of the gift, although in some circumstances that can mean something, particularly if you're buying off a wedding list, because they know exactly what you're paying for it.
Speaker 2:Well, they do. And then there's the feeling thinking, well, but that's fair enough, because you're probably saying, well, I'd like to spend X amount on it, and then you'll find something for that kind of amount and you think, well, I'm going to buy what I can afford and that's fair enough.
Speaker 1:I think that's okay. So again, we're kind of on the edge of saying quite a lot of gift giving is duty Well there is, and also there's, a kind of cultural norm about it, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It's a wedding, therefore, I'm expected to give a gift, and if. I'm invited to the wedding. I can't not turn up with a gift, so it's like saying we'd love you to come to our wedding and here's our wedding list. So in a sense it's transactional.
Speaker 1:But that's the same for Christmas, isn't it? I mean, and birthdays, yes.
Speaker 2:Because if you've got no, if you've got no birthday presents on your birthday, how would you feel?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not good. No, I mean, you know, if the children from the family you know they're not going to be happy.
Speaker 2:You know, if the children forgot it and I forgot it and everybody else forgot it, or you just didn't get anything, you'd think at some level does anyone care about me? Hello, it's my birthday, you wouldn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it's not really what I'm getting at, robin. There's there are times when gifts are given out of duty and there is actually nothing to celebrate at all. It's just, it's a moment in time where it's expected of you to bring something.
Speaker 2:Is that like a cultural norm? You mean if you go to somebody's house you expect to turn up?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll tell you that my real bugbear this is my real bugbear is you're working in an office and you go on leave, you go on holiday and you're going somewhere it's quite exotic or whatever, because you've saved up all year and you're going somewhere exotic and you get back to the office and there's in every office I've ever worked in there's an expectation that you bring back sweets from that, or biscuits or something from that holiday, or treats or something A treat.
Speaker 1:You're duty free or you get some anyway. Then you take it all back and you dump it in the kitchen and you say you send an email out to everybody saying I've brought you back sweets. But on the other hand, you're probably going to get a lot of things that nobody really wants to eat, like strange marzipan-y things or dates or whatever.
Speaker 2:Or you go on holiday to Greece and you buy them Greek honey and you come back and think I could buy that in the local supermarket.
Speaker 1:So it is a bit odd in an office environment this thing about you go on holiday and you have to bring back something from that.
Speaker 2:And how many people do you feel you have to give to? Is that how one? No, the whole office, the whole office.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So those are to bring back sweets Enough for the whole office or your team anyway, and then you end up like eating these weird sweets from far away places that you don't really want and I might be being churlish. Tell me I'm churlish, I think it's just, I never did it.
Speaker 2:So, except that, I remember you telling me a few years ago, when you were managing director of an organization and you decided on it was a lovely sunny day, you said you know what? I think the team worked really hard, everyone's doing really well, and it was a hot summer and you just went out and bought a whole bunch of ice creams and everyone in the office got an ice cream for no reason. So that was a kind of no reason present.
Speaker 1:That's a no reason. Friday afternoon. Friday afternoon.
Speaker 2:And everyone went this is so lovely, you know. And you said to me you bought it out of your own pocket. I remember you said I did it, but it didn't cost you very much, but actually the benefit for that was huge.
Speaker 1:Well, exactly, so that is a gift. No, exactly, and that's what I wanted to really get across and discuss with you is that gifts are worth investing in. This is what I was trying to say earlier is that gifts are worth investing in because I think they build human relationships.
Speaker 2:So it wasn't about the ice cream.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:It was about the fact that you thought they were worthy of the ice cream, worthy of something, and you bought them. Something, yes.
Speaker 1:I've always have seen this with your clients when you're talking to them about communication. This must come up. Like you say, your clients give you presents. Do you ever give your clients presents? Or what about corporate gifts to clients?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't do corporate gifts. I'm not big enough. I don't consider myself a corporate, I'm a kind of one man band, so I don't really do that.
Speaker 2:But I have given gifts to clients and I've actually given gifts more to people who I feel have somewhere, believe in me and recommend me to other people. So what I'm doing is saying thank you for your support. Yes, in a way. And what do you give? I don't know. It could be small. It's something quite thoughtful. Maybe I bought a book that I think they'll really like, or some chocolates, some specially made handmade chocolates, or something, but it's something. It's more the thought behind it rather than the gift always.
Speaker 1:I want to just touch on a might be a pain point. Do you give gifts to all clients or just some clients?
Speaker 2:Well, the thing is, of course, in my world is that not all the clients know each other, so I can give selectively to some, and if any of my clients are listening, I very rarely do it, so please don't feel offended at all.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you're probably the most generous of all, and I think you do correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you give them your book.
Speaker 2:Well, I guess I have given them my book.
Speaker 1:but that's not really a present, is it? Well, that's not really a present that's not serving, that's a door.
Speaker 2:stop really. I would say, don't really have to read it, you can put it in, keep it downstairs, luke.
Speaker 1:Now, what do you think about no gifts Like? I've got a friend, robin, who absolutely refuses to give any gifts at all and he says that's because he hates receiving gifts.
Speaker 2:Oh right, too, and what?
Speaker 1:does that say about that? What does that say about them?
Speaker 2:Well, there's a whole psychology behind that, but I think if you don't like receiving gifts, is it because you don't like being sent her attention, you don't think you're worthy of them, or maybe you just don't like saying thank you. I do remember looking after a very elderly friend of the family's and she was in her late 90s and by this point she was bedridden and she had to have carers at home. And she said to me once she said do you know what People? You know the carers, and of course it's transaction. I'm paying them, but they bring me food, they bring me my lunch and they bring me my tea and they bring me my orange juice and everything else. And she said do you know what? I'm so tired of saying thank you all the time.
Speaker 1:I just want to do it myself.
Speaker 2:Really, I'm just really fed up of saying thank you and I am very grateful, but I just want to be able to make my own toast.
Speaker 1:And I kind of get that you know.
Speaker 2:So people are giving her presents. In a sense, they're giving her things, they're giving her food and whatever, but she's going. I don't actually want to say thank you anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think my friend just going back to my friend who says I don't want to receive any gifts is he says I feel obliged to say thank you. I feel obliged to mine, not mine. I feel obliged to act out a thank you for something I never wanted.
Speaker 2:Wow, these socks exactly the socks I wanted. Yeah, and you have to yeah, you have to do all that, and he doesn't want to do that because Well, somebody gives you a book and you've already got it yes, and you've already got it, and you have to go. Wow, I'm looking forward to reading this book.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you're going to put it on the shelf and maybe re-gift, okay, can you re-gift. Can you re-gift?
Speaker 2:Ooh Well, I think you can re-gift, but you don't want to be caught out re-gifting because that's terrible. But you know, if somebody gives you a brand new copy of a book and you've already read that book, I don't see anything wrong giving the book away to somebody else.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you have to say it. You have to say I'm re-gifting this.
Speaker 2:When you handed it on to somebody else. Yeah, oh, that's a bit of a moral.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't take credit for it. You can't take credit for it. Ooh, do you know? What somebody else does Is if you're given a bottle of wine. Somebody comes over for dinner and they bring you a bottle of wine and you don't want to use it that night, what you do is you put their initial on it, on the label, and so that next time they come, you take out that bottle of wine and you drink it with them.
Speaker 2:So I remember you gave this to me last time. Yeah, because that's clever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, because you shouldn't re-gift the wine you've been given.
Speaker 2:No, but I remember when you're students and you're young and you go to a party, you're kind of expected to turn up with some beers or a beer or some beers or a wine or something like that, and probably you don't have much money when you're students, so they're probably not very expensive and I'm sure those are re-gifted all the time. If somebody turns up for a party and there's some left, you probably take one of those bottles and take it to somebody else's party.
Speaker 1:But I don't think anyone would mind that. I don't suppose they would. No, you're right, I really think that would be okay In certain situations. I think you can re-gift. I think you can take that scarf that you're never going to wear, package it up again and give it again, but I still think you have to say that you're re-gifting.
Speaker 2:Yes, I was given this scarf. It's just not my coloring, but I thought you'd love it.
Speaker 1:Have you heard about those parties you can do after Christmas? After Christmas, everybody comes along to the party like there's 20 of you and you all bring something that you were given for Christmas that you don't like.
Speaker 2:Yes, and you swap it, and you swap it all out. You can play swaps. Yeah, and you play swaps. We've never done that, but it's a great idea. No, it's a great idea.
Speaker 1:I think it's a fantastic idea, except that I'm.
Speaker 2:You were implying, though, Cian, that some of the presents I give you, you would actually quite like to re-gift.
Speaker 1:My favorite present from you, robin. My favorite present is I got a promotion in my job and you gave me a tiny pineapple. I did I did Random pineapple no, but it was a very nice pineapple. It was a very nice pineapple, yes and it's still on my bedside table, my pineapple yeah, but inside the pineapple the pineapple opened. Yes, and there's a note inside it's notes. It says congratulations.
Speaker 2:Yes, and interestingly enough about things like that. I mean I'm a great fan of leaving little notes around the house and I never leave the house in the morning without leaving a note.
Speaker 1:No, you're right.
Speaker 2:I'll see you later or whatever, and Whatever, whatever. And the funniest one I think I gave was a little note that I put inside the larder cupboard, the food cupboard, and you opened it up when I was away, because I was going away for a couple of days. And you opened it up and it just said hello in the cupboard.
Speaker 1:Yes, it did. Now, is that a gift? Yes, yeah, that's a gift. Is that a gift? It's not, it's a moment.
Speaker 2:It doesn't cost anything, but it's the thought behind the fact you bothered to do it.
Speaker 1:You just said cost. Now, that's important. I know we've talked about monetary value and trying to warm up my shit, but cost of a gift do you mean? Are you saying that sometimes, when you give a gift, actually making something yourself is more important?
Speaker 2:Well, if children draw your picture, you could say I love this, and children don't have any money, but they make you something or they sew you something, or they knit you something.
Speaker 1:Oh well, I keep it forever. You keep it forever, wouldn't?
Speaker 2:you, yeah. So those things you get, or even you know niece and nephew and wider people, somebody gives you something they've made. It's lovely unless it's horrendous, and then you think you have to put it out every time they come round.
Speaker 1:I've never done that, have you never? Yes, I have.
Speaker 2:I've been given presents that I thought were so.
Speaker 1:I put it in a cupboard and then bring it out when the person's coming. Yeah, but then you have to remember you think, oh, they're coming.
Speaker 2:I have to put it out there.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And then you forget to go where's that? Where's that present I gave you?
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I keep. I've got a whole section of a cupboard which is things that are coming out and going back in again, and I'm sure, I'm sure everybody does that, or no? Is that just me?
Speaker 2:No, no, I did have to say I have done in the past. I have done that.
Speaker 1:Again, it's really interesting this topic because we keep bumping up against other things. When you give a gift, what are you showing to that person? I mean, I assume everybody's tries to be incredibly thoughtful, like yes like doesn't go out and buy 10 candles at a time and just randomly hand them out whenever you have to give a gift.
Speaker 2:But then that's going to feel like a corporate gift section, isn't it? Yeah, if you know that, if you know that three other friends oh Sian always gives a candle or gives the same thing, then it doesn't feel special.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what are you doing when you give a gift? What should you aim to try and do?
Speaker 2:Well, what we're communicating through gifts is we're saying I have thought about you and I've thought about something you might like. So if you give them a specific I don't know, you know whether it's going to be an item of clothing or a book or a little antique thing, little knickknack, whatever it is you're buying them. If you, if you think, do you know what they would really love that. And when you you've received something like that and you've received I've received things like that and you think that's so sweet, it's so sweet that, yeah, and that they've actually gone out and thought that I would like that and I do like it, it's really nice. That's much nicer than somebody saying you know, here's a 500 pound bottle of wine which I would probably yes, and and it can go horribly wrong.
Speaker 1:You know that they've really, really thought about it and they give you something and they're incredibly proud and they think they're super happy.
Speaker 2:I'm going to give them this gift tomorrow, yeah, and they're going to absolutely love it.
Speaker 1:And I remember, way back in the day, somebody gave me a present. It was a woman, actually, who gave me a present of leopard skin leggings Right Now that is not my thing and for some reason she thought that I would like them and that actually really like them, yes. And then that taught me a lot about our friendship. That communicated a lot to me about the friendship that she didn't really know you, that that she didn't really know me, but that maybe that was my fault. I don't know where the misconnect, I don't know where the miscommunication came in, but anybody who knows me would never do that.
Speaker 2:No, but maybe that says more about her, so she thought they were great and therefore, maybe she's saying but you could be more like me, and maybe she's encouraging you to do something else to come out of your shell, that's true, because she really liked. She might say you'd look great in these.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Change your outlook. You're a bit, you know, you're a bit square.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it could be that a friend, or whatever the occasion is, somebody, gives you something because they're encouraging you to be more like them.
Speaker 2:Yes, Well, or it's more like them, or even to be different, to try something new, yeah.
Speaker 1:So just wrapping this up, I mean, in a way, what we've been saying over the past. So just getting to the nub of this, what we're really saying is that we want to very much express something on an occasion where you normally give gifts or maybe not, but when you're giving a gift you want to express something to communicate something.
Speaker 1:you want to communicate something, and we're saying, we're hoping that that's a really beautiful message, that is something that you really tenderly want to tell somebody, unless it's in a corporate environment, when then it's more kind of professional and it's kind of congratulations, yes and you know sometimes that when somebody has done the equivalent of going to the petrol station and buying some flowers from the petrol station, because it's a last minute thought, last minute gift, last minute thought, that's not communicating.
Speaker 2:I value this, I value you particularly because it's a last minute thing I haven't really thought about it yeah. So. But somebody who's gone to a really beautiful flower shop and chosen some, chosen some lovely flowers, has a very different feel from the quick supermarket one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what we're saying in gift giving is we're communicating with each other that we value you and we've seen them, we understand them we respect them, yeah, and therefore.
Speaker 2:I know them yeah.
Speaker 1:Your recommendation, from what we've been talking about, is be really thoughtful in what you choose and how you do it, and then it's got nothing to do with money.
Speaker 2:No, it hasn't, but it does have. It has a lot to do with the thought behind it. And and there's something that I do in if I'm running a course, which which I love, and it's one of the exercises I do with a group maybe I have a group for a whole day yeah, and one of the exercises I do is to ask people to tell the rest of the group about one of the best presents they've ever been given.
Speaker 1:And that's so that they communicate well, like, like they can speak in front of a group.
Speaker 2:Yes, so I'm running a course on, you know how you can be confident speaking in front of a group.
Speaker 1:Oh, I, see okay, how you're pitching or presenting or whatever, but one of the exercises to feel comfortable in that is this, right.
Speaker 2:So what I tend to do is do a lot of work on being comfortable talking about personal things, and then I move it on in the afternoon talking about corporate things or talking pitching their business.
Speaker 1:Oh, I see, but it's all about feeling comfortable presenting.
Speaker 2:But. But this exercise is so sweet because it gets people to be honest and authentic about something that's mean something, to mean something to them. But because I've done it for such a long time now I've got a sense of what the most popular presents are and the most popular gifts are Tell us.
Speaker 2:And the most, one of the most moving things that people say is particularly if they've, if they're expats and they've moved country so they've left one country, they've gone to work in another country, they've gone to university, study or whatever in another country, is where a group of friends have put together a collage or a book with all their favorite things, their pictures in it and they and they feel close to their, their friends, their group, when they're away.
Speaker 2:So commemorate the time together and have a keepsake and they even say things like you know, if ever you feel lonely, we're all here with you, that kind of thing, so so that's a lot of people have mentioned that one. The other thing that's very common and it's not just with boys, or they might think I thought it might have been initially is the first bicycle. Wow.
Speaker 2:And the first bicycle is not about the bicycle, it's about the sense of freedom that it gave them. So they always say the best present I remember is when I got the bicycle I could cycle off on my own down the lane.
Speaker 1:Could you start that again and don't mention the boys.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah I know I got that I was stinking myself. And one of the other presents, which is very common, is their first bicycle. Really Something is first bicycle, and it's not the bicycle, it's what the bicycle represented. And what it represented was freedom. They could leave, you know, the living on one road, they can get on the bike and they can cycle away from the house. And they said that sense of freedom they remembered.
Speaker 1:Well, my first bike, can I just tell you, was that banana seat. Do you remember the banana seat with those handlebars with like tassels, Like a chocolate bike? I got a chocolate bike anyway, yes, that was very common.
Speaker 2:The other thing that sometimes people say is they particularly want a. There's something specific they want for Christmas and they got it Like they really wanted the I don't know some Nintendo Game Boy or something. There's some kind of gizmo they wanted that everybody had, and often there's a particular toy that everybody wants in one year and you really really want it and if you get that you're super happy.
Speaker 1:And people tell you this in their coaching. They'll share all this with the group. They'll share that the other thing that people talk about.
Speaker 2:That means a lot are family heirlooms. Obviously you kind of expect that. So they say you know, this is the ring that I'm wearing. My grandmother gave me this ring and she passed away and what? So? There's something that is there, or maybe their grandfather and my grandfather had a watch that his father gave him and it actually went to my older brother when he passed away but on the back of the watch was an inscription and it said this is so his father, my grandfather, was given this by his father, and on the back of the watch it says from small beginnings, under their undiscovered ends is nothing worth the while of living than laughter and the love of friends.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's lovely and that's universal, so that's universal.
Speaker 2:but that was engraved on the back and that was a saying that his father had. So he had this watch, but on the back of the watch was a saying that his father really liked.
Speaker 1:Can I say that's a very big engraving and it must have been a big watch.
Speaker 2:No, well, it was quite. It was a man's watch, but it was engraved quite small, but you could read all that he could still read it, and it was really sweet. And one thing what's that last one? Family heirlooms sorry.
Speaker 1:It was when somebody doesn't have a present.
Speaker 2:Oh, yes, yes, yes, and probably the most moving one I ever did of this exercise tell us about your best present was one man. I looked at him and I thought, ah, he looked. He looked quite sad and I thought I've got this wrong. You know, this is quite early one in my career doing this as a coach and I said would you like to speak next? And he said all right, and he stood up and a little tear came in it left eye and he said I've never been given a present. And I said oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. I said you know why was that? And he said no.
Speaker 1:I think you should start again, but maybe because it's quite, we're talking to corporates, I think it might scare them.
Speaker 2:Oh, right, okay.
Speaker 1:So just lighten it just a little bit, just so you can see who's getting emotional. Don't say tear in his left eye and things like that. Yeah, it's very actrish. Yeah okay, start again and upbeat, go upbeat.
Speaker 2:And there was one I really remember that was very poignant actually for the group, and he stood there and I said, would you like to go next? So he stood up and then he said I've never been given a present.
Speaker 1:And I thought oh dear.
Speaker 2:So I said I'm sorry to hear that, what were the circumstances around that? And he said well, I was brought up in care in a children's home. And he said we were given presents, of course, but he said I never felt they were for me. I felt they were almost rather like corporate giving we've been talking about. They were just given to random in any child that needs it kind of thing, but not just specifically for me. And so he said I can honestly say I don't think I've ever been given a present. And we all went out at lunchtime and we bought him a present.
Speaker 2:Oh, did you, yeah it was one of the nicest afternoons of coaching I've ever had. It was fantastic.
Speaker 1:And do you remember what you gave him?
Speaker 2:Well, I can't tell you what we gave him, but it was something he had asked for, right by implication he had mentioned earlier in the day, and we went out and we managed to find it for him.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's really lovely and it was really really nice.
Speaker 2:And I think that you know, in terms of communication and what gifts mean, and that was one of the clearest examples to me that when you can get people talking about what they want and you can this is talking about it now, so it was one of the most memorable afternoons I've had coaching.
Speaker 1:And what it did was show that a clear form of communication. All the group was saying we're here for you, we heard you, we see you, we see you and this matters, yes, and the fact that and we respect that you shared that with us.
Speaker 2:So totally.
Speaker 1:And that's what we've been talking about in this podcast. Gifts are really exciting. They're really poignant.
Speaker 2:And thought.
Speaker 1:They're really exciting, they're really moving. They can create quite a lot of emotion in us. They tell you something. It could be negative or positive, but they can tell you something about your relationship with the gift giver.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it's as we say. It's the thought behind it. It's not what it costs, it's none of that, it's just what it means, and you're communicating that we care ultimately.
Speaker 1:And that we wish you a rushy. Yeah, try and say something else. We're trying to communicate. Make it really punchy. Read it down if you want. Yes, no.
Speaker 2:I'm trying to think what it is we're saying oh, so we're coming back to the art, coming back to the art of giving. Yeah, okay. So I think, ultimately, there really is an art to giving. Yeah, the art to gift giving is making it really clear why you're giving the gift. It's not about the cost, it's not about anything else. It's about the intention behind it and what you want someone to feel and I think giving.
Speaker 2:Oh, and I give one example An aunt of mine used to. An aunt of mine taught me this If you're going to go to somebody's house in the evening, what you do is you send them some flowers in the afternoon with a note Take it all out. Okay, take all that?
Speaker 1:No, you were ending the podcast really well, just then.
Speaker 2:It's, we're going to the end. Did we end that? Did we end it? Did I end it? You just said I think I did end it. No.
Speaker 1:You just okay Now. This is all scrappy and messy now, but you ended just really well just then you said be really clear about your intention of the giving and and your gift will land.
Speaker 2:Does this decide to do that again?
Speaker 1:Yeah, do that again.
Speaker 2:So, ultimately, the art of giving gifts which this podcast has been about, really is about being really clear why you're giving the gift, what you want the other person to feel and what the intention. So it's just the intention of it. So, ultimately, what we're really saying, I think, is the art of giving gifts is really about what is the intention behind it. It's not about the cost, it's not about, it's not about one-upmanship or anything like that. It's about what is it you want the other person to feel. And if you're really clear why you're giving them the gift, then the communication is clear and they'll feel, hopefully, what you want them to feel.
Speaker 1:Yes, I think that covers almost every moment that I've been given a gift. There's never any confusion. No, it's crystal clear. It's crystal clear why, and that has always been important to me. That's all. This ending is rubbish, sorry.
Speaker 2:So, ultimately, I think the art of giving gifts is about being really clear why you're giving the gift.
Speaker 1:What is your intention?
Speaker 2:What do you want the other person? To feel on receiving the gift, are you saying I understand, I'm encouraging you, I love you, I challenge you, I love you, I support you. Happy birthday, happy birthday, what is it you're doing? And it's not about the cost, it's not about anything else, it's just what is the reason I'm giving you this gift? And if that's really clear, the receiver knows exactly why they're getting the gift, and then they can feel it, then they can go. Ah, I know why I've been given this gift.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then it's easier at that point to say thank you and genuinely mean it.
Speaker 2:Because you're saying thank you for the intention, not necessarily the gift, even if you don't particularly like the gift. You're saying thank you for the intention because the intention is clear.
Speaker 1:The art of giving is something I didn't really know existed, or that there were many different aspects of it, and now I'm a little more understanding and I hope I'm going to buy better gifts for you.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, I tell you what I'm going to do now. I'm going to have to buy some muffins, because that's what you said you wanted. I think that was muffins. It's all about listening. Yeah, actually, can we spend a little bit?
Speaker 1:about the gift. Actually, can we spend a little bit of time, a little moment in time, to talk about cultural norms around gift giving? So what have you experienced amongst your client base? What have you seen?
Speaker 2:Well, for me it's travelling around the world is the cultural norms are different and sometimes I'm coaching somebody and they will turn up with some very grand present.
Speaker 1:Which part of the world would they do that?
Speaker 2:Well, I don't really want to say Middle East or whatever. No, no, we should.
Speaker 1:Okay, start that again, do it. Yeah, we need to talk about countries.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay.
Speaker 1:We definitely need to talk about the countries, so start that whole section again. Okay, robin, can we just spend a minute talking about cultural norms around gift giving, because I know there's many countries you travel to where you've seen gift giving on different scales. Yes, what have you seen and experienced?
Speaker 2:Well, on a personal level, if I'm coaching somebody in, say, the Middle East or India or Australia, there are different norms as to what's expected and sometimes people will turn up with quite grand gifts and I thought the first time I went to some of those countries I was thinking I didn't realise I was also expected to reciprocate and that was kind of expected of me. So, eventually you get to learn these things.
Speaker 1:Yes, you have to learn what the cultural norms are you learn? What the norms are. Certainly, I've travelled in Japan and in Japan it's very important. The gifts you bring in. It says quite a lot, and your brother, of course, lives in Sweden and we know it's a lot of candy.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of sweets, every time A lot of sweets, yes, and we have friends in Netherlands as well. Again, always lots of presents when they arrive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but again there's the sweets. Actually, yes, yes.
Speaker 2:But there are specific local treats of some sort.
Speaker 1:And maybe in, maybe my hometown, it might be a six pack of beer.
Speaker 2:Exactly. Back in Vancouver, exactly, and so I think, yes, there is a cultural or sometimes, in some countries or in some cultures, if you go to somebody's house, you're expected to behave in a certain way, bring a certain thing. Maybe you're expected to bring a dessert, for example, and if you don't know what the norm is, you can easily fall foul of those things, because you're not trying to get it wrong, but you can sometimes get it wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and can I say that is true in England? And can I say that is true in Great Britain? There are definitely things that are unwritten, rules that nobody will tell you, that you have to figure out. About the gift giving.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm sure that's true in all countries.
Speaker 1:But yes, specifically it's quite complicated. In the United Kingdom it's quite complicated, because even down to the brand of marmalade that you bring is important. There's certain brands that you can bring as a gift and there's certain brands that you can't. And there's certain types of chocolates that you bring and there's certain types of chocolates that you don't. And it says something when you get it wrong.
Speaker 2:Yes, well, it communicates either that you fit into the Sorry. It communicates that you fit into the cultural norm or you don't.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:That's nice, that'll drop in nicely.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Yeah.