Luke Thompson is the host of the popular "Luke's English Podcast". He has a decade of experience podcasting and far more as a teacher.
In this episode, we cover shyness, English immersion, how to have good listening practice, using comedy in English, and Luke also shared a couple of funny and embarrassing problems he's had with learning French.
https://teacherluke.co.uk
Video Version - https://youtu.be/VZa_5X2RIV4
Show notes page - https://levelupenglish.school/podcast114
Join Level Up English - https://levelupenglish.school
Transcript - https://levelupenglish.school/transcripts
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Luke Thompson is the host of the popular "Luke's English Podcast". He has a decade of experience podcasting and far more as a teacher.
In this episode, we cover shyness, English immersion, how to have good listening practice, using comedy in English, and Luke also shared a couple of funny and embarrassing problems he's had with learning French.
https://teacherluke.co.uk
Video Version - https://youtu.be/VZa_5X2RIV4
Show notes page - https://levelupenglish.school/podcast114
Join Level Up English - https://levelupenglish.school
Transcript - https://levelupenglish.school/transcripts
Sign Up for Free Lessons - https://www.levelupenglish.school/#freelessons
Join Level Up English - https://courses.levelupenglish.school
By becoming a member, you can access all podcast transcripts, listen to the private podcast and join live lessons and courses on the website.
Welcome to the level up English podcast, the best place to come to practice the English language. Learn about the British accent and culture with me, your host, Michael Lavers. Hello, English learners. Welcome back to the level up English podcast. My name is Michael and I'm so glad you could join me again. Or if it is your first time, then welcome.
Speaker 2:So I'm glad you could be here. I've got a really exciting talk today with Luke Thompson from Luke's English podcast. Before we get to that, I want to mention two things. First of all, if you want some help with the listening, I recommend checking out the transcripts is like the subtitles for every episode. So you can find the transcripts for my podcast, every episode@levelupenglish.school slash transcripts. And by the way, you can also watch this episode. So you might be listening on your phone. You can also watch on YouTube. So don't forget to check out level up English on YouTube. And if you do that, you can also see my camera keeps falling over. So that's a nice bonus for you as well. The second thing I want to remind you guys of my group lessons. So I think it's a good opportunity to let you know what I'm up to and give you another chance to practice your English. So if you want to improve your English, your conversation or skills in a small group of learners and myself, head over to my teaching website, that's E w michael.com/group. It's always like small groups of us, Congress having a conversation, talking about different things. It's a lot of fun. So check that out. If it sounds something that would be good for you, but yeah, let's get into our topic today. I spoke with Luke Thompson from Luke's English podcast. He's been a podcaster for almost 10 years now. He's got a lot of experience there, also a lot of experience as an English teacher, and he was really fun to talk to. I could have spent hours talking to him to be honest, we covered many topics, such as shyness in English being shy. We spoke about immersion. We spoke about how you can have good listening practice in English. We also covered comedy and incorporating comedy into your practice. And finally, right at the end, Luke shared a couple of funny experiences and mistakes he has had with learning French. So don't miss that. That was very funny. Really hope you enjoy this episode and find it useful without any further ado. I give you now my conversation with Luke Thompson, I am joined today by Luke. So thank you very much for joining me. Um, would you be so kind as to kind of give a quick introduction as to who you are and what you do? Sure.
Speaker 3:Hello, Michael, thank you very much for inviting me onto your podcast. So yeah, my name's Luke and, uh, well, I am an English teacher. I'm a podcaster and I'm a comedian probably in that order. Although actually I think podcaster comes first these days. That's the main thing I do. And I've been teaching English for about 20 years and I've been doing my podcast for about 12 years now. And the podcast is called Luke's English podcast. And, um, you know, very much like yours. I talk to learners of English around the world and the aim is to just help them improve their English in an enjoyable way. And so we encourage people to just listen more. I mean, I could, I could ramble on for many hours about that, but I'll keep it simple. So yeah, just, I just want people to listen more, listen more regularly, listen term. I think this is very good thing for people's English. And so that's, that's sort of what I do on my podcast. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You've been doing it for so many years now. Um, probably wouldn't be long till you get to like a thousand episodes. Right. I think that's coming up. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I'm on to sort of about 725 sort of in the pipeline. I think I published episode 717 yesterday, so yeah. Yeah. It's yeah. Keep marching forwards. It's great. I like that. You know, just,
Speaker 4:Um,
Speaker 3:Making progress. I don't know, just numbers. It makes no difference really, but yeah. It's nice to reach certain milestones. It's nice to get to like episodes heaven 700. It feels significant. Yeah. I like round numbers. We like round numbers. Don't we humans.
Speaker 2:I, I recently got to 100 and that was such a good feeling. I don't know why it doesn't mean anything as you said, but, um, did there ever come a point where you felt, you know, I, I don't know if there was a point where you felt like you didn't have confidence, but I, I definitely feel that way all the time. So did that ever come to a point in podcasting where you felt like finally I've got it. I knew what I'm doing. I'm confident. Uh, um, I dunno,
Speaker 3:I have good and bad days. So some days, yeah, I don't feel confident. And I, and I, I stress out and I work. I think, you know, I dunno what I'm doing. Everything's a complete mess. And I genuinely feel like I still don't know what I'm doing. I still feel like I'm getting it all wrong. I'm doing it all wrong. And uh, and then other days I think, no, no, this is great. I'm really comfortable. And I can't wait to record something. So it depends, you know, good and bad days I'll go up and down. But generally speaking, yeah. I guess after 700 episodes, I feel quickly pretty comfortable doing this now and I really enjoy it. Um, yeah, but there's always, there's, there's always, there are always doubts and always thoughts about how you could be doing it better. And I do occasionally think, oh no, I think I'm doing it wrong. Maybe that's one of the reasons why I've got to I've, I've managed to keep going because when you get those sort of feelings that you're doing it wrong, or maybe the last episode or the last few episodes that you've done have not been quite right. And that's, that's just pushed me to record new stuff, you know? So I just thought of right. Get some more content out, which I think is going to be better than the previous one to fix it. And, you know, you end up just keep going and going and going either feeling good that you've done something, you know, some good episodes and you want to keep going like that or feeling a bit bad that you need to kind of change things. So in any case, it all kind of keeps pushing me forwards. Um, yeah. I don't know where the motivation comes from really, but, um, it's there. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think there is something so rewarding about it. Just the idea that you're helping people, helping people learn and listen, and it's very enjoyable too, but yeah, I mean, I started out with kind of a self development thing, almost like I'm very naturally quite socially awkward and not good at talking to people. So for me, that was kind of the beginning and now it's kind of developed into other, other things as well. Um, but yeah, you'll probably get to know that about me. That I'm a bit awkward, but we'll see.
Speaker 3:Wait, so because you felt socially awkward that's that was why you chose to start doing it in order to kind of what step out of your comfort? Yeah,
Speaker 2:A little bit, a little bit, obviously there were more reasons like hopefully people would listen and I would help people, but, um, I was terrified of putting myself out there, having people hear me, not editing myself, you know, not cutting up my videos for example. Um, so part of it was just like, even if no one listens, at least it's kind of overcoming that fear and it's still in the process of doing that, but that's been a rewarding part for me, you know?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I find, I certainly find video to be a lot more awkward than audio. This is one of the reasons why I love audio so much because I feel far less self-conscious um, when I'm doing audio stuff, I'm actually really comfortable. It's great. I love the fact. There's no visual element to it at all because you know, people, humans, we are very visually, uh, what's the word for it? We, we, uh, I guess first and foremost, we communicate with our eyes, right. You know, they say body languages, the most important thing in communication and the message that you give off is first of all, broadcast through your body and people kind of judge you just by the way that you look. And that annoys me because it kind of distracts people away from the things you're saying. I love, again, another reason I love podcasting is because you strip away so many other things, it's just the voice and just the words, just the English. And then people can really tune that and they don't get distracted by other things. Other thoughts when people are watching you on video, they're kind of thinking about your hair or about, you know, the expression or lack of hair in some cases or the expression on your face, or, you know, or Luke seems tired today or whatever it is. I'm just like, nevermind all that stuff. Just listen to what I'm saying. So, uh, what was the point I was making
Speaker 2:Audio, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. The benefit of audio. So I love that. I love the, um, the comfort that it brings. Um, yeah. So for me doing, and I try and do video sometimes for me doing video has been a little awkward too. And I've, don't feel the same level of ease in front of the camera. And, you know, it's like when I'm being videos, like my face sort of starts to it's, it's a really weird feeling, but I don't know if this is just me, but when the camera's on me, I feel like my face isn't relaxed suddenly like switch off the camera and ah, I'm fine. But the camera on her, like why is my face stop doing weird, weird things, you know? So yes, this is why I like audio. But, uh, have you found, uh, over the, you know, over time, have you found that you've become more comfortable? Yeah,
Speaker 2:Definitely. Definitely. Um, you know, the F the first ever podcast interview I did, I was like sweating so much. I was tripping over my words more than I usually do. Um, I'm much more comfortable now, but yeah, as you said, when I started adding video in, I became a bit more awkward too. And I think partly because some, you know, you see yourself on the screen and I'm thinking like, oh, wait, I look like I'm not interested. I don't want to seem that way. I have to kind of put on a smile to show that I am, but that's always awkward part, but yeah, that definitely is I've come a long way, I think. Um, and it also maps over into your daily life. I don't know if you were ever shy like me, like I was, but, um, even in like normal speaking to strangers or friends, I become more confident too.
Speaker 4:So yeah, I think, yeah, that's having an effect. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's also just as you get older and you become mature and just generally have more experiences, you start to become a bit more sure of yourself, but yeah. Doing this, like any new experience, any new kind of challenge, especially if it involves communication, um, is going to ultimately, I guess sort of make you a bit more confident. You've got to have lots of failures. You've got to make a fool of yourself. You've got to feel pretty uncomfortable. And, and you, you know, ultimately you learn that it's not the end of the world. Like if you do trip over your words or you kind of, whatever it is that is making you scared, you know, socially when those things happen, nothing really, nothing really happens as a result. It's fine. And you, you just kind of become more and more sure of yourself as you get older. It's like doing stand-up, you know, just doing up comedy is pretty terrifying at first, but after you've done it enough and you've sort of, uh, made a fool of yourself or failed enough times and you, it does hurt. It always hurts. But ultimately you realize, oh, it's not the end of the world, you know, and I'm all right. I'm still alive, you know? And so you, yeah. You develop a thicker skin through doing things. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2:Yeah. I can't imagine anything more terrifying you're doing standup, but yeah, maybe that will be like the next step. Right. If, you know, overcoming that, that fear, that discomfort
Speaker 3:As a teacher, have you spent much time standing in front of groups or is it mainly been one-to-one stuff
Speaker 2:He's tall online and I have taught group classes, but it's always been online. So I think it's very, very different than in a classroom. Isn't it? Yeah.
Speaker 3:There's a whole, their whole physical aspect to it. Yeah. Which is like, you know, dealing with your body and body language and learning how to stand and all those things, presentation skills. I found that teaching really helped me to become confident. When I first started teaching, I was really, really awkward. I didn't know how to stand. I didn't know what to do with my hands. You know, it was horrible. Um, but over the years, you know, through teaching groups have just started to become more comfortable in my skin. So teaching is, is, is wonderful. Um, yeah. Uh, but I was just gonna make one other point about feeling awkward and shy and stuff like that. Um, I think that we don't, I think that we judge ourselves far more than other people judge us. So if you watch yourself or if I watch myself on video and I kind of like, oh, you know, I don't really like the way I look or when you hear your own voice and you don't like it. Um, you're probably the worst judge of yourself. Like other people are just like, oh no, it's fine. And they, in fact other people want you to be comfortable and confident. So in a sense, like you just, if you think of it, that way, that just relaxing and being yourself is like doing other people a favor. That's a good point. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:They, they say like, you know, if anyone else spoke to me the way I speak to myself, I would hate them. Right. That's that's what people often say.
Speaker 3:And they, they don't, and they won't, I mean, there's always idiots on the internet, but they're just idiots on the internet, you know, there's, they're always going to be there, but like no one is going, no one is judging you as, as harshly as you're judging yourself. I think, I
Speaker 2:Think that's a good, um, conclusion to come as like a language learner too. Isn't it? That you don't have to worry about the mistakes you're making or maybe your accent is not perfect, but you know, you are much more critical of yourself than other people. So I think it's really important message, isn't it?
Speaker 3:It is. It's a tough one though. Isn't it with languages, especially if you are not in a safe space, if you're just in like a social situation, there are lots of social issues which can make you feel more, more or less shy. Like for me, I live in France and, um, my French is definitely not as good as I wanted to be, but I've got, you know, everyone says that I've got friends whose, who have amazing French and they're like, oh no, my French has no good. Like sh you know, shut up. We say that about our, our languages. But in any case, I feel it's not as good as it should be. And, um, you know, a lot of the time it's because the situations I'm in, I feel, I don't know, maybe I'm just imposing this on myself, but I feel a quite high, um, high value, high risk situations. So it's when I'm talking to friends of like all around the dinner table, it's my wife's friends. And, uh, like, you know, I want in those situations, I want to be able to be like this great person who's really like entertaining and like a good conversation list and stuff. But my level of French is so much lower than that, that I, it just completely ruins me sort of confidence wise. So what am I saying? Certain situations are, let's say healthier than others. I don't know. I, I, um, I also think that, uh, some people learn languages really well when they are forced to do it. Um, I'm not making, I'm not being very clear here, but, um, I, it's a lot of things to say. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Like w when you have like a strong reason to learn, it's much easier, isn't it? Rather than just, you know, you kind of course learn for a hobby, but if there's no consequence for not learning, I think it can be a bit harder, harder to improve quickly.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And guess what I was trying to say about this, this, the situation in which you are practicing the language, um, social pressure is a real killer in, in terms of language learning. And so I think this is why language lessons or language classrooms are actually a really great thing or finding the right people to practice with and creating a safe space and a language class or language learning classroom or lesson should be a safe space. I think those are actually really good, really healthy places to practice your language learning. And it's, I guess it's a sort of a myth of, um, immersion, or if you're going to go, if you go and live in a country that you will therefore just learn the language because the conditions will be all perfect. But it's really not the case because in some cases like for me, I've come to France and I'm trying to live my life and, you know, I've got family and, and, um, and all those things, I feel like there's a lot of pressure in most of the situations where on speaking French, there's a lot of general life pressure. And I've, I find rarely that I'm in a situation in French where there's no pressure at all. And it's just having fun in infringe. I mean, I, you know, I've got French speaking friends, there's a lot of English that gets spoken to, but what I mean is that, um, I think that, uh, language learning classrooms can be a great space because it's, um, sort of, it's a place where you're allowed to make mistakes and you're expected to make mistakes and stuff like that. But maybe it's all in, maybe it's all in my head. So when I'm, when I'm with, when I'm at a dinner party situation, you know, maybe I don't need to worry so much, I guess what I'm, what I'm saying, Michael, is that I'm concerned that my wife will be embarrassed by my bad French, but she knows she's never embarrassed. Uh, French people love it when English people speak French,
Speaker 2:You're trying on you. And even if you were much worse than you really are, I'm sure she's still be happy that you're trying other people will be happy. It's it's the effort, I think is the main thing.
Speaker 3:That's right. It's the thought that counts the effort. So what would you say
Speaker 2:To people then? Cause I hear a lot of people almost using it as an excuse. Like I can improve my English because I can't go to England or English speaking country. I need to have immersion. Um, do you think having that immersion is really, would be helpful or is it definitely possible to get to a high level and not have that immersion in the country?
Speaker 3:Um, immersion? Well, you know, immersion is good. It definitely helps because you're getting exposure to the target language a lot more, and it's just all around you all the time. You can't kind of escape from it because if you're learning language in a non-English-speaking environment, then it's, it requires effort. You've got to go out of your way to make sure that you're getting English into your life. So that's less convenient. And so immersion is more convenient in that sense that there's just tons of target language all around you all the time, but it doesn't it's, it doesn't necessarily mean that you will benefit from it because you've got to also, um, think about your own motivation and, and the, um, like I live in and I'm in, uh, I'm immersed in French, but I am also living in an English bubble, you know, because I speak English at home with my wife. She speaks good English. I speak English to my daughter. I speak English at work because I'm an English teacher. Um, I speak English when I do stand up because it's in English and there's little English language stand up scene. And the friends I have there also speak English. So everything's in English, I think about English all the time, because that's what I'm doing in my work. Um, I speak English on my podcasts, so it's kind of English, English, English. So even if you're immersed in the language, you still got to try and get the right kind of habits and the right sort of mental approach. So, um, you know, it's, it's only that there's more of it around that. It it's better, but if you are still not really applying yourself, then it doesn't make a difference.
Speaker 2:Yep. I think I might even say like most people who travel wouldn't immerse themselves that much like people that go on holiday normally and that kind of stuff. Um, I think back know Japanese is the main language I'm learning my first time in Japan. I spent one whole month and I can basically count on my hand, like the number of conversations I had. Cause I was very shy at this point. This was quite some time ago and I just w I didn't put myself in the position to have these conversations. And I think that's a common situation. Isn't it? Where people have this idea, they're going to travel to the country. They're going to be immersed. They're going to improve. And then disappointed when it doesn't happen by magic.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, in England, you, you could have probably had a better language learning experience by just finding some Japanese language partners online and just having a half an hour, an hour chat with them every day in the comfort of your own home, it would be cheaper. Um, yes. Just assuming that in being in the country is enough. It's not, it's not the case. You've, you know, you've got to find, uh, chances to socialize with people. I lived in Japan. I lived there for two years and, um, I mean, I I've lost all my Japanese now, a lot of it. Uh, but I found the best situations for learning Japanese, where, when I went to my local bar and I just went down there, first of all, just because I was at a loose end and I didn't know what to do. And I wanted to escape from my flatmate who was a bit of a nightmare. And so I was talking to him like, oh God, you know, I don't know what to do. Um, he played really loud music and he was genuinely, well, I didn't really get on with him. And my friend was like, just go out, just go to a bar. I was like, I can't just go to a bar. And he said, yeah, go on. Just do it. So I went down to my local bar and I walked in and surprise, surprise. Everyone was really nice in there. And I sat down at the bar and just sort of ordered a drink and some food. And then some people started speaking to me and then I made friends with them and I spoke, you know, broken Japanese to them. It was just like, oh, what do you like, do you like, you know, it was like, I like, uh, the Beatles. I liked the Beastie boys. Do you like the Beastie boys? And that was the basis of the conversation, but I S I w I got like comfortable enough to go back to that bar every week and then sort of drinking cocktails and playing dance with these guys. That's, that's how I learned the Japanese that I got, I learned how to count to 180. Um, and I learned just, you know, basic social Japanese stuff, but that those situations are very hard to, to, to find,
Speaker 4:Yeah, you
Speaker 3:Do. And also it wasn't just like one or two or three evenings spent there. It was like a lot of evenings, you know, um, on top of each other that really made the difference. So, yeah, immersion is not just physically being in the location where the language is spoken. It's more of a sort of mental thing or a habitual thing. You can, you can be immersed in English, um, anywhere really. You just, it's really just about getting enough English into your life and communicating sort of meaningfully, uh, with people in, in that language. And you can, you can find people online these days. Um, so, you know, it's meaningful communication with people, regular, uh, exposure to the target language. Also, you know, certain habits like recording vocab and things like that. But ultimately it's just like good, meaningful time spent with the language. Your physical location can make that more convenient, but ultimately it's, it's kind of your mental attitude, your approach to doing it. And the quality of the time that you're spending with the language. I think those, those things are important.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah. And I guess this is where podcasts come into it, because obviously listening is a big part of, of practice in immersion as well, wherever you are. Um, obviously your podcast, um, one of the best ones.
Speaker 3:So,
Speaker 2:Um, I wanted to ask you opinion on what kind of listening you think is best. And maybe you could talk about your podcast and generally as well, like, do you think learners should be aiming for like a natural speaking speed or maybe trying to go a bit slower if they're finding natural a bit hard or does it not matter?
Speaker 3:I guess it depends on the level of English of the person. So, Hmm. If you're a low level, you know, if, if, if, um, you're a low level learner of English, then you know, it might be difficult to understand sort of natural speech, I guess. Ultimately the main thing is, is finding English, listening that you are motivated to listen to, that you really want to listen to, that you find enjoyable because okay, if we take my podcasts as an example, so I, I do tend to speak pretty naturally and kind of quickly I try to speak clearly, but I try not to separate words too much, you know, uh, I try to basically speak in the same way that I would normally speak, but I do enunciate fairly, fairly clearly. Um, so speaking speed is, is probably normal. Um, in order to understand that, um, you've probably need, I dunno, intermediate, upper, intermediate, advanced level of, uh, level English. Uh, but for those learners who are sort of pre intermediate or elementary, it might be difficult for them to follow it. And it, the episodes are pretty long, but I have had people who have got, they've told me, they've emailed me. They said, when I first started listening to your podcast, I didn't understand anything. Or I understood just 15 or 20% of what you were saying, but for some reason, these people persevered. And I'm always impressed when I hear these stories that people continued listening. And I just kind of think, wow, that's, that's because the real improvement comes through time and practice. There's no magic method, not necessarily a magic resource, except that you've got to look for in a kind of English that you think is natural, right. Um, but it's just time and, and, and practice ultimately. And so, um, whatever resource is going to make it easier for you to listen regularly and longer, um, then great. So I guess, yeah, for, but for very low level listeners, it's probably a good idea to listen to something that's graded, something that's quite short and then kind of work your way up. Right? So sit BBC six minute English is, is a good standard. Um, if you're, I would say lower level because they speak pretty slowly, um, their stuff is scripted, which means that there's, there are S there are scripts, transcripts for everything they say. So for those low level people, they can read the scripts and maybe take more time to understand the individual words, listen, and kind of connect the, the, the words in the script to the words they're hearing and kind of build it up that way. The issue with, for me with six minutes English is that I find it a little bit. What's the word for it? I don't want to say boring because that's not very nice, but I find because it's scripted, it feels a bit unnatural. And I don't, I'm, I'm coming from the position of a native speaker that when I listened to it, I it's a bit like playing the audio from a coursebook in class. I always cringe a little bit when I hear those audios, you know, um, because it's actors and it's clearly been scripted in advance and it's in authentic. Um, and so I wonder if, if learners notice that I don't, I guess he doesn't really matter for the lower level learners who were using six minutes English. If the, if it sounds a bit inauthentic, or if the acting the voice acting, isn't brilliant. It doesn't really matter. Um, I know what you mean. Yeah. Yeah. I'm rambling. I'm I ramble a lot, Michael, I'm sorry. That's
Speaker 2:Good. No, that's like natural podcast thing. Isn't it? Like, I do that all the time because I just get into the habit of talking for my podcast and I just, it bleeds over into everything else I do,
Speaker 4:But I
Speaker 2:Know what you mean. Like, um, if I think in Japanese, I think it's the same. Like if I listen to like really, really basic like scripted, hello, could I have a coffee please? It's like, yeah, I'm kind of learning the vocabulary, but it's not that enjoyable. I think it comes back to what you said at the beginning about why you like podcasting. Cause it's, um, just that natural conversation is just so pleasant to listen to, or like with the mistakes and everything like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly. I think the real progress, and it's hard to say where the real progress happens, cause I'm sure of people make really good progress and, um, a very successful using those kinds of listening materials, which are scripted and slow and, um, not very edgy, you know, I mean, who am I to judge them? I think they're great resources. And I think many, many thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of people have improved their English using resources like that. I guess what we have, um, in English language learning is the privilege of variety and so many different options. So I think, you know, I'm not going to say that something like six minute English or even audio recordings from course books, you know, those sorts of things. I'm not going to say that there that there's they're bad or wrong or anything. Uh, because I think that's not true. Um, I'm just saying, I guess I'm just being picky and, uh, saying this, I guess that, um, for some people they will find it more engaging to listen to natural conversation and the, ultimately this lets people listen to things for longer periods of time. Um, you know, uh, you know, six minutes English is good though. Um, the, also the British council, they've got some really good listening materials, uh, on their website. Um, and the transcripts are very helpful. Um, I would say, you know, a lot of people also use TV series films, Netflix, and stuff like that, which is great. Again, if that's the thing that you're really motivated to, to use, but sometimes they're not the best resources because listening to TV, films and stuff, it's actually can be very hard to, to hear the English being used. Cause there's lots of sound effects, lots of noise, lots of music. The dialogue can be quite kind of unclear. And lot of mumbling, it's primarily a visual medium. Um, and so it's not necessarily the best way to have language presented to you because a lot of the time, the language you're hearing is just incomprehensible. I mean, I don't know if it's the same for you even, even as a native English speaker, when I watch some films or TV series, I'm kind of like, huh, what are they saying? Um, so yeah, again, it comes back to podcasts. I think they're a great resource because it's just the, you just get the voice. I think overall I would say pick things that you're actually interested in. Okay. And listen regularly and for longer periods and whatever the resource is that is going to keep you coming back then. Good. But don't assume that you should see a lot of people that think, okay, I need to improve my English. I need to listen to things or listen to the news. And they listened to the news for five minutes and it's horrible and it's depressing. And the language is really complicated and difficult and it's sort of very impersonal and then they give up because it's just not enjoyable at all. Um, I think it's probably a much healthier situation in language learning to listen to someone speaking directly to you in plain English in a more conversational style using the sort of English that you will probably be using too, because, you know, if you just listened to the news all the time, I mean, yeah, you might be, you might get good at reporting on events, but you might not. Yeah, you might, you know, so how are you Michael? Oh, you know, uh, just the classic joke of like witness reports stated that I woke up late this morning, you know? And, um, breakfast was consumed early, you know, earlier than, than reported, you know, all that sort of stuff. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And then at the end of the conversation saying, Michael, thank you. You know, just, it's just the conventions of English that you hear on the news. It's just not the sort of English that you normally use in your life. So people assume that they P they should listen to the news or that there is just, or that they should watch Netflix. But, um, there are other resources out there. So, you know, shop around, be selective, find something that you're really interested in. Uh, hopefully something that will keep you coming back for more and then just put the time in, listen long-term. And if you're enjoying it, if it's really fun and you want to listen to the next thing, um, and then you probably won't see the time passing and then you're in, that's the, really the sweet spot when you're not really even aware that time is passing. That's the best. So if you, if you pick an audio like an episode of a podcast and you think, oh, it's 60 minutes. Oh, I can't listen to that. Um, you know, try it, try listening to it. And, um, ideally you'll just be into it. And it doesn't matter if it's 60 minutes, 60 minutes is in fact better because that's even more, uh, listening. I don't know, be prepared to put the time in, but if you, if you find stuff that's enjoyable and fun, then it'll be easy. I, I would say, and just regular practice, um, don't expect results to happen immediately. Um, you know, sometimes, um, it takes time, but if you're enjoying the process, you won't even notice that the time passing. Yep.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I think it all comes back to fun. Doesn't it? Um, fun is, is always going to be a key aspect of language learning. Um, and yet speaking of fun, I did want to touch on comedy today. Cause I know that's a big, uh, would you say passion for you? And it was a hobby?
Speaker 3:Yeah, certainly. Uh, something I'm passionate about. Um, almost like a compulsion, just, uh, it's weird. I mean, I haven't done stand-ups since COVID arrived. Of course, because all the shows have been closed and you know, trying to do it online a bit with online comedy shows, but they're so weird. Cause there's no audience, they're such a weird experience
Speaker 2:Yourself, then just making jokes to yourself. It's,
Speaker 3:It's, it's, it's very odd. I mean, I do comedy on my podcast and stuff like that, but when you're, I don't know when you're involved in a comedy show and you've got five minutes to do a comedy set and you're essentially, you're just speaking to a screen and you know, there are people out there, but you've got no idea how they're responding. That's very weird because when you're doing standup, it's, it's good to be able to see the reactions of the audience and actually engage the audience and stuff like that. Um, so yeah. Yeah. Comedy. Yeah. It's, it's kind of, yeah, it's a passion. Something I love and something I'm compelled to do. I mean, I just feel like, ah, I've got to do, I've got to perform on do some comedy. It's sort of like quite cathartic and, and fun. Yes. In theory. Yes. Uh, yeah. But how do we relate this to language learning? This is yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. How do you think it relates? Like, do you ever combine comedy say if you're learning French, do you ever join it together or have you ever done that with your students before?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I use comedy a lot, uh, for, for, so teaching English. So I use comedy a lot for teaching English. The thing is the problem is with comedy is it's extremely difficult for, for the learners to get. And huh. Again, comedy as a resource for language learning is a tricky one. I think that I tend to see it as a resource for teaching rather than as a resource for learning. So I like to use comedy, for example, playing my students, you know, something from a TV show or stand up or something like that. And then there are many ways you can break it down. And often it's often the problem is that the people, people can't understand pick out the individual words being said, because it's all coming in very quickly, there'll be certain specific references that they won't understand. And, uh, also just the type of humor involved can be a bit, be tricky as well. People don't realize what the, where the joke is or what the target of the joke is. Um, and so there are many things that as a teacher you can use first and foremost, just what are they saying? Can you just understand what they're saying? And then doing certain things to help the learners understand, and it can be a great way to learn vocab and pronunciation, you know, connected speech, timing, rhythm stress, and stuff like that. Um, and yeah, often there is a reward at the end, hopefully that at the end of the process, the learners do understand and that they might enjoy it or find it funny. Although, uh, breaking down comedy often just completely kills the humor. Um, but again, uh, as a teacher, sometimes I like to use comedy, um, um, in teaching. So that's especially useful when you're explaining things or giving examples. Uh, you, you can, I have a tendency or again, a compulsion to make my examples, just get a bit ridiculous. Um, uh, I'm not, I don't feel at all funny today, Michael, I feel like I'm, uh, I'm not being very funny in this interview, but in teaching it's quite enjoyable. If you've got language, you know, as a teacher, it's, it's, it's really important to give examples of target language, not just defining, obviously there, there are many ways to teach vocabulary and stuff, but ultimately it comes down to, you know, explaining words and stuff like that. You can give definitions. That's fine. But the best thing is when people can see or hear words being used in lots and lots of examples, and as a teacher, you have to end, you have to be quite creative in the way that you give examples of, of new language. And that is good, fun. That's where you can start having fun with, with examples. And you could just, you just think, okay, so I've just got to put these words or phrases in some example, example sentences, or I've got to come up with a stupid context in which the language is used, and then there's a lot of fun to be had in that. And you can also pass it over to the students in role-plays or other situations where you're asking them to use the language. So, one example, I came up with this thing, which was to practice, present perfect, continuous. And we just thought it's so hard to contrive a perfect role-play situation in which people are using it. That is not boring. You know, it's not, what have you been doing? You know, what are you doing well? Okay. So I thought, right, it is boring. And so I'm really gonna push the boring side until it becomes funny. So I came up with a situation where there's a village idiot going around the village, asking people what they're doing and then asking them how long they've been doing it. And the people he's that people are like, w who are you? Why are you asking me these questions? And he's just like, nevermind. You know? And he keeps asking these stupid questions and the comedy, I think, I hope the comedy comes from the, the contrived situation that this idea has just got to try and use this grammar. And it's like, why are you asking me these questions? Cause Luke told me to do it anyway. So it's like, what are you doing? I'm just everyone in the town is an idiot. You know, what are you doing? I'm just throwing stones into this lake. Oh, okay. Uh, how long have you been doing that? What, how long have you been doing that? Oh, I dunno about half an hour. And uh, okay, great. How many stones have you thrown in? You know, just like really inane and the Moss cheaper than the name, the conversation actually, the funnier it becomes
Speaker 2:Right. Is easiest to remember. I think of it if it's funny and especially strange, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. You kind of, as an English teacher, you feel obliged to keep things serious. You know, that's, everything has to be serious all the time, but you can. I think, again, going back to that social side where people can feel a bit, um, under pressure and when people are judging each other and no one wants to make a fool of themselves, then the, the effective filter comes in, which makes people basically feel awkward. And it's really hard to learn languages, to practice language effectively when you're feeling awkward. And so when you come up with the most ridiculous role-play ever, and you demonstrate it and you tell the students, I want you, I want this to be as ridiculous as you can make it. I want you to say the most stupid things you can think of, as long as you're using these, these, these, um, you know, the target language, I don't care. You know? And in fact, the point of the role-play is that the people say stupid things, then I've discovered that then the students really go for it and they do practice the target language a lot, and they have a lot of fun and they bond with each other and, um, they then feel a little bit less self-conscious, you know, in, in lessons. Um, so yeah, Kuma can be used in practice exercises, and it's essentially about encouraging the students to have a certain kind of mindset, which is let's, you know, don't worry about what the content of what you say. Cause, you know, in discussion activities, often in lessons, the discussion questions can often be quite serious ones. And I just kinda think, you know, uh, needing to make a good point or needing to be right in a discussion or needing to make sense in a, in the, you know, in, in, in the argument that you're giving, if you're having a discussion about, I don't know, are computer games good for children or not, you know, that that can actually be quite limiting. That's kind of scary thing. Cause you want to make the right point. You want to win the argument. But then I feel like that's quite limiting and I'd rather liberate my students and say, you know, I don't care what your argument is, as long as you just sort of make your points. Um, that's the most important thing. So, uh, introducing some ridiculousness or some funny games or, uh, humor into the, into the situation can actually liberate the students and make them feel a bit less self-conscious and, and more creative. I like that. Yeah, that,
Speaker 2:That makes a lot of sense to me. I also think kind of a side point, which I don't know if you agree, but I think when you're learning a language, it's really important to also learn the culture. Right. Cause they kind of go go together. Um, I think humor is a big part of culture. Isn't it like if you, you know, if you go to Japan or France or England or wherever, the humor can be very different and quite hard to understand, but I think that will allow you to connect with people a lot more won't when you, when you do travel there.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. Although it's quite hard to her. It's quite hard to know in advance. You know, if you could have read a book like a French humor is this, this and this, you know, ultimately I think that the best thing is just to be, uh, try to be a nice person and try to be interested in other people and just be willing to have fun and have us put a smile on your face and show that you're, you know, you're not being serious. You're not, you know, you're just up for a laugh and a smile and being interested in people and being friendly and nice are the most important things. Um, and I think from that place, that's where you can get to being humorous because ultimately, you know, in a social situation, being humorous for me is just about making everyone feel good and trying to make people laugh and just trying to make people happy and smiling and enjoying themselves. That should be the motivation. And so I think if that's your motivation, then ultimately you can't fail really. And you know, your, your bouncer just have fun with people. I think that's more important than like working out what, what type of humor is pervasive in the country, because that's just going to go wrong. You know, if like, if you learn that in England, we like innuendos sexual innuendos, which we do, they're all, you know, people use them all the time. You're going to get it wrong. Cause you're going to go in and start trying to make sexual comments and people are gonna be like, sorry, what my, it has to be natural. It doesn't, it, you can't, you can't. Yeah. It's more important to just be friendly and just be interested in people. And if you, you know, for humor, I think a universal thing about humor is that, uh, it's we use it socially just to, just to enjoy spending time with people. Um, and so we should just focus on that rather than I think specific forms of humor.
Speaker 2:That's a good point. Okay. Yeah. Um, you mentioned also before, um, when, when you're having fun, time goes so quickly. That's exactly what's happened today. Time has gone so quickly. So I guess I'm having fun. Um, I did want to ask one more question. It's going to be a bit of a topic change, but I ask everyone this question and it's kind of a recurring theme and that is in your language learning. I know you learning French. I don't know if there's been any more. Um, but have you had any embarrassing moments or kind of funny mishaps along the way that stand out to you right now?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Loads. Um,
Speaker 2:I think it's, it's nice to, um, talk about these. I think, cause it lets people know that mistakes are not a big deal. It shows people laughing at their mistakes. I think it's always a nice thing to explore.
Speaker 3:I'm just trying to think of any stories that I haven't told before, but I'm just going to go with one that I have told before. So, um, yeah, I was in a cafe, um, in France, not in Paris, somewhere else. And the waitress came over and asked what I wanted to drink. And I, I know we ordered some food, my wife and I ordered some food and then I wanted to say, oh, can we have a jug of water as well, please? So a jug of water is a calf, half dough. Now I can't say water. This is my problem. There are certain sounds in French that it really difficult for me. And Ooh, uh, do like a bottle of water is really hard thing to water on bootay DOE and dough dough. Do even now you've got French listeners probably listening, going it's you know, this is how you say it, the desperate to correct me. But in any case, I find it hard to pronounce that word and people always like, huh, what? Huh? You know, and Indiana bla uh, Evia, you know, I just like order the brand name anyway, the waitress came over and I said, oh yeah. And, uh, um, I can't have to see if you play or doula. And she just went like this with this look shocked, look on her face. Like as if I was a Martian who just like ripped my head off and there's like this alien, just speaking this weird language to her like that. And uh, and I just said, uh, hello? Hello? And she went, huh? Coca like that. Like what, wha what? Coke, Coke. And when they I'm basically they're going water, water, water, Coke, water, Coke. And then she, and then I said, ah, no, a D D. And she went, yeah. So there's me going? Uh, water, water, water, water, Coke, uh, water, uh, water, beer. And, and in the end it was like, okay, beer. Yeah. In fact, yes. I need BNN lamps all the time. Just basic things. And people are just like, huh. And then, and then my wife says it water. And they're like, oh right. Of course. And the other one I can't say is a book book who book, who meaning a lot like Massey book, Merci beaucoup. But I think it's an sound anyway. So I ended up saying beaucoup and in French beaucoup means nice. Oh no. So why is it always like so similar,
Speaker 2:Really similar words are completely opposite meanings. Like it's always
Speaker 3:The same. I don't know. So I'm like messy bucket, but basically I'm going around going, thank you. Nice to people. And maybe this is why the postman doesn't want to come to my door anymore. I don't know.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah. It's so frustrating is it? I have that. I'm learning Chinese as well. And Chinese is the worst for that. Cause they have the tones, you know, and I think I'm saying it exactly like you are, but they're just not understanding, like, you know, it'll be the same white guy, water, water, water. Oh, you mean water, but that's what I said. Like, you can't hear any difference for
Speaker 3:Learners of English. It's a similar thing. Cause you know, words, stress, you know, my wife has this quite a lot in the UK. She's French. And so, you know, having did is great, but then sometimes she will just say a word with the wrong stress and people are just like, what, what is she talking about? You know, they've got no idea what she's saying. So for example, the word banana, she'll say banana banana. So even just, if you say normally banana, and if you stress the first syllable banana that can throw people, if you're in Assam shopping, you know, in some, some part of the English countryside and my wife says, oh, can a banner please? They're like, they do the same thing. Huh? What?
Speaker 2:I can kind of see it now from, from the other point of view, because it sounds so similar to banana, like I'm saying the same sounds. Right. But it can sound like maybe like you're saying banner or some other word, right. Like I can see the confusion. Worst
Speaker 3:Stress, I think is actually the most important thing in English that, um, I've heard this and read this somewhere that, uh, you know, you can get all the different vowel sounds right. And consonant clusters and all those things. But if you are stressing the wrong syllable in a word, then people just will not get it. Somehow word stress is the thing that really hammers the word home. So yeah. But banana and banana and saying necessary and necesarrily is another one that French learners will say necesarrily or something like that. And you know, native English speakers will just be like, what, what is that is what's what word are you saying? And you just shift the word stress to the other syllable necessary. Ah,
Speaker 2:I think it's common in France, isn't it? Because so many words are similar. Some of the words are like the same, but the stress is different as far as I understand, right? Yes.
Speaker 3:That is true. You've got false friends as well. Words that are the same, but mean different things. But yeah, often very similar. It's like, like French that the similarity between French and English is both an advantage and a disadvantage. It's kind of like 50, 50 a French person just can be like, Hmm, what's the word? Well, I'll just try saying this French word with English pronunciation and you've got a 50% chance of it being right. And if it's right, you know, English, people were like, wow, your English is amazing because French translated into English often sounds quite posh, a little bit more formal because of all those Latin words and stuff. And so if you just like try and just directly translate or just flip a French word into English, if it works, it works really well because people are like, wow, your English is so good. Then my wife that amps to my wife all the time, she'll say something and my, my dad would be like, your English is so good. And then my wife will whisper to me. She'll just say it's the same in French. So that's cheating, cheating. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I really feel like I could talk for a lot longer, but I want to respect your time. Um, so maybe we can finish up here, but before we go, uh, you know, you mentioned obviously your podcast, Luke's English podcast, um, anywhere else you'd like to send people anything you want to shout out.
Speaker 3:Um, so Luke's English podcast. Yeah. So the website is teacher luke.co.uk. Um, and uh, I've got an app as well that people can download on their phone. It's free and they can get the full episode archive, uh, on the app plus lots of bonus content too. So people could just search the app store for Luke's English podcast app. And you'll just get all of the episodes in the app on your phone and uh, all the bonus content. And also that's where you can get the premium stuff too, if you choose to sign up to that. So there you go. Luke's English podcast app on the app store, I would say. Perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I'll, I'll put that in the show notes as well. Um, so yeah. Thank you so much. I'm really glad you took the time. I've really enjoyed chatting with you and I'm sure our listeners have as well. So thank you. Thank
Speaker 3:You, Michael, for inviting me onto the podcast. Uh, congrats for getting to a hundred episodes. Keep going, you know, keep it up. You'll you'll you'll catch me up. Uh, eventually. Yeah, somehow I don't know how
Speaker 2:To do two or three a week then
Speaker 3:I guess so. Uh, but yeah, thanks. Thanks for inviting me on and for letting me talk to your audience and to, to, to meet you and talk to you and, uh, have a lovely day and good luck with your Japanese. How is your Japanese by, by the way, Dickie masker, J Nihongo,
Speaker 2:Squishy, Dicky, mass a little bit. Isn't it? Not too bad, but you know, lack confidence.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Speaking, speaking, speaking is the thing. Yeah. If you can, if you got people to speak Japanese every week, every week, all the time. Okay, great. Hi Josie, Josie Davis. I don't know if that's[inaudible] there's a lot of those jaws and Josie haven't forgotten it all. Now. Some little things anyway, let, uh, I won't send us off on some huge tangent. Again, you were just closing the episode. Good luck with your Japanese and the podcasts and stuff. Nice to speak to you. Take care. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1:You have been listening to the level up English podcast. If you would like to leave a question to be answered on a future episode, then please go to level up english.school forward slash podcast. That's level up english.school/podcast. And I'll answer your question on a future episode. Thanks for listening.