Communications Academy

Why Deploying a Branded Mobile App Strategy is Personal

April 15, 2019 Season 1 Episode 2
Communications Academy
Why Deploying a Branded Mobile App Strategy is Personal
Chapters
Communications Academy
Why Deploying a Branded Mobile App Strategy is Personal
Apr 15, 2019 Season 1 Episode 2
Staffbase
Deploying a branded mobile application is personal
Show Notes Transcript

In this episode Peter is back! We talk about how, in order to successfully deploy an employee app you must plan for, execute, and govern a truly mobile-first strategy. We also review customer stories and where we see the industry headed. Enjoy!

Speaker 1:
0:03
In this episode, Peter Returns talk about deploying a branded employee application that is truly mobile. First. More importantly, he discusses the importance of focusing on a strategic plan around the personal device. We talk about customer experiences and also where we see the industry headed. Enjoy today
Speaker 2:
0:23
Peter is back and we're going to talk about what it means to go mobile and what you really, really need to be thinking about when you, how are formulating this idea of what mobility really means and how it impacts the people that it's going to be interacting with. Um, and we were having a discussion before this began and there was one key word that came into play and then I'm going to hand it over to you, Peter. And that word when you're talking about mobility is personal. And there's something very important to think about when you're looking at how mo going mobile impacts the personal aspect of such a transformation.
Speaker 3:
1:11
Yeah, I think that's right. When you look at, so let's just talk numbers for a minute. Sure, sure, sure. There's something like 275 million people in the United States who have a mobile phone now. Yeah. And for it, it is such a known thing. It's so well talked about. It's in our lived experience, people walking around just staring at this device in their pocket. If you, if you go on public transportation, everyone is just sitting there staring at the same thing. Sure. Um, it's just ubiquitous. And so in company internal communications, it becomes tempting to just pile into this conversation about mobile net mobile and it being ubiquitous and think to yourself, oh yeah, like if we added a mobile channel, like if we added an employee app for example, like, oh yeah, it's just going to be ubiquitous because, because phones are ubiquitous, but there's something real, there is a really important wrinkle in when you actually do an employee app project.
Speaker 3:
2:14
Yeah. And it depends a little bit on the type of company that you are. There are companies out there that provide all of their employees with devices, but that's not everyone. And that's not most companies. And it's definitely not, most companies when it comes to diverse, diversified workforce is hourly work forces, the factory floor, healthcare, all of these different areas where it's just not common that the company is providing everyone with a phone. And that difference, the difference between thinking of mobile as in mobile company given devices versus the penetration of mobile personal mobile phones that people bought themselves and pay their own data plans. Yeah, that's a huge difference in reach. So I think when people approach internal communications and they think about an employee app, they really disregard this point in their minds. They sort of throw it all together. Oh, you know, people have phones, um, we're just going to use their phones as our communications channel and we don't have to think about for a second the fact that it's not really our channel, it's their channel.
Speaker 3:
3:28
Right. And there is a, and this is where when we were having a discussion before you really touched on some, you know, some questions that need to be asked is you know, when, when you're, yeah. By having this application on my device, all your device, my device is your company, my device. Right. It's just to be super clear there. Yeah, there is. There's a certain patience and respect that is paramount to be successful. Well, let, let's talk about it in sequence. Sure, sure. Let's start with just like getting it on the device in the first place, right? I mean, if you have mobile device management and you have company devices or you have a, a bring your own device program, you can just push it out, no problem. And this works great. And it promotes a really successful project because you get over that first hurdle, the adoption hurdle, if people just getting it onto their phone.
Speaker 3:
4:26
However, most companies, right? Most employees that they don't, they're not on MDM, they're not, they don't have a company device. And even if they did, if you're the company and you're trying to get their attention, you'd rather be on the personal device then the company one, right? Um, so the only way you're going to get onto the computer, onto the personal device is if they download it and they're going to choose to do that. Yeah. So they're going to choose to do it because you know, you are marketing the heck out of it and you say, guys, please download the phone. Um, they're going to choose to do it because you sell them on it. Right. But getting them just even to download it in the first place is not, it is no joke. Right. And so one, one of the most essential elements of just getting that initial adoption is that the APP itself be recognizable and, and trusted to the employee.
Speaker 3:
5:26
They're going to download this thing to their personal phone. It's gotta be a name that they know. Um, so we think the staffbase APP doesn't cut it. Um, so for all our customers, they're not using the staffbase APP. They're getting their very own branded app. The word building for them. Right. And then they're managing and using to communicate with, sure. But it's their name on the outside, whether that's in the APP store, their name, their developer account, or on a download page, it's gotta be to the company. Sure. Otherwise, that first hurdle, it's too much to ask. Yeah.
Speaker 2:
6:02
Hmm. Yeah. And that's your spot on it. If it was, if it was not branded, if it was not trusted you, you're instantly saying it's just another APP. Yeah. Well, it's just another ads by not branding it, by not having your, your company at part of it, you're essentially down greeting and downplaying the importance of it in the first
Speaker 3:
6:26
place. Yeah. And it's that much less of your identity. Right. Let, let's get right down to it. Like people, you know, you, you go through life in this existence of seeing you, you're fit the physical boundary of your body is this limitation that you call yourself. Yeah. Right. We're focused on number one, and this is this evolutionary, this is sort of how we're wired. Right. And so you're not, you're going to see it as less personal. I mean, we take on a lot of things in our identity and they're overlapping. You know, I like this sports team. I'm from this area. I think I have this kind of personality. I love music. Like these things. We take them on as part of our identity and they become part of that idea of me. The company you work for, well that's, you spend a lot of your time and energy there that helps provide you your livelihood, helps provide you with, with a lot of important meaning in your life. That becomes an important part of your identity too. But some random company over here that I never heard of, like that's not part of my identity and, and I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna as easily be persuaded to involve myself with it and put it on my personal device next to my other apps that I chose that are part of my identity.
Speaker 2:
7:39
Like what you're seeing. We hope. So if you'd like to learn more about staff base and what staff base offers, please go to staffbase.com and click on schedule a demo. We'd love to show you the product. Now back to the podcast. Enjoy. So by this, even though it may sound simple, this idea of leveraging the brand is encouraging that type of environment to, um, and then you can add another level of it too, is that in side of that application is accessibility to things that directly impact you, your children, your family, and then it gives you a gateway potentially to communicate with your organization that you love.
Speaker 3:
8:25
Yep. And a door. Yeah. And that's, that brings us to sort of the next hurdle, right? So in, in the first place, you're trying to get them to adopt, trying to get them to download onto their personal device. And that's a big hurdle and there's a lot of best practice about it, but being branded is really key. Once you've overcome that hurdle, okay, now you're on the personal device. The journey and the hard work doesn't end because now you've got to compete with Instagram, Facebook, pictures of their children and family like you are, you're there with this stuff that really matters. You're next to this stuff that really matters, right? So if you're sending out push notifications three times a day, there's like news from some corporate office 500 miles away, like you're not going to be there for long. Um, people won't tolerate that kind of distraction.
Speaker 3:
9:18
They'll turn off the push notifications. So the APP will be there. You'll think superficially, oh my adoption was good, but your active usage won't be good. People won't keep logging into it and you won't actually have that communications outlet that you thought you did that you were looking for. So overcoming adoption, it's not your channel, you don't own it. So you have to persuade and sell people on downloading it, but the selling doesn't end and you have to keep going. Right? So that's about making the APP relevant to people and making it engaging. So while we see relevance is about making things personal, so being able to target it, the, hey, you're Jason, you work out of New York City office. If there's news about a New York City office closure and you get a push notification about it, you're going to be like, let me click on that.
Speaker 3:
10:12
And if that's the type of thing that, that you see and you think of the APP is like that type of thing, like your office that you work out of and news about that then you're probably not going to turn off push notifications. You're probably not going to get, you know, get rid of this, this annoying spam, right. Cause it's going to be relevant to you. Um, and th that's just a principle that what's on this platform has got to be valuable to people for them to keep using it. And just to be clear, the flip side of that is the Detroit office did not get that notification, right? Yeah, exactly. The Detroit office needs to not get that in that notification. I mean, imagine, you know, you work out of the Detroit office and you get push notifications twice a week about the, um, the team drinks that are happening in New York right now.
Speaker 3:
11:05
Not only is it sort of spammy, totally irrelevant, you're not going to go and it's just eating up your attention and, and eating up your phone. But like, it's also like maybe, you know, make it putting a little chip on your shoulder and like, why don't we have more team drinks here in Detroit? Right. And the new plant that opened in Shanghai, if there's a notification that the third floor emergency exit is blocked, right. New York or Detroit wouldn't get that. But Shanghai, absolutely. We'll get that notification. Exactly. Yeah. And, and this, I call this like really paying attention to and respecting the fact that it's a personal channel and the, if you, if you know, as a company that builds a platform like this, if you're not thoughtful about the fact that this is a personal channel, yeah. Then you don't build in the kind of governance and targeting. That's an, that's really necessary when you think about it as a personal channel.
Speaker 2:
12:01
We were talking about this in the other episode, that there's this desire that this eagerness to say, Oh wow, people are on social media and they're so engaged and there's so many people, there's millions of those billions has to be my, my employees. So we'll go do social too, right? And we'll just do the social thing and people are totally numb to the notifications and all that cause that's just how they operate. So we don't need to respect any of that. We'll just throw it all out there and let people be social together. Right. It's just nonsense.
Speaker 3:
12:34
That's right. And, and this, you see this so often. I mean, and I don't look, internal communicators are in a tough spot that they have a difficult challenge, which is they don't, they live in this crazy world where we're now like what, every 10 years or something, we have a total paradigm shift and like we've gone from personal computing and now everybody has a PR. Computers were took up a whole room to now it's a personal computer and everybody owns one to now everyone's got one in their pocket, right? And now we live in this world where attention is just, everything is demanding it. And you have, Netflix is coming up with an algorithm. They're dropping, you know, 10 new shows every day and they have a perfect algorithm. They know which one's going to be right for you as an internal communicator. You're competing with that, like everything you're competing with the general attention problem that's just happening in this crazy world we live in
Speaker 2:
13:28
and it's, I think there, there, there, there's something to be said too. Cause when you peel it back and we talked to internal communicators and they're telling us, I just want to stop getting yelled at, right? Because I send a message out that I'm required to send it out and I get all this hate mail back. The saying stop mass emailing me. Well then if you go mobile and you're sending out the Detroit message to New York and Shanghai, you're doing it all over again. So that's where the respect really comes in because that, that person, the personal element of trust, that's what you're really, you're doing too, is you're, you're, you're, you're really IX. There's an expectation that you respect that I'm putting this on my device. You know, that this is my personal device. And also you don't want to be interrupting me. You want to improve my efficiency, not, yeah,
Speaker 3:
14:18
yeah, yeah. And that that's, it's got to be this kind of respectful approach or the project is going to fail and you'll, you'll see it in the adoption numbers. You will see it in the active usage numbers and I think that's what people, you know, our industry of like this mobile first communications platform, it's still relatively young. Like not all companies have it. It's, it's becoming a thing a lot of companies are, are, are bringing on this kind of project, but they're going to find out, I mean right now it's just so new, there's a lot of energy around it, but they're going to see like our founder, Frank Wolfe saw, he did 10 years of sharepoint intranet projects before founding staff base and what did he see? Huge investment, lots of time and energy going into building beautiful sharepoint intranets and then at the end of the road, no change, no transformation, not, not for the internal communications team, which is still just getting dictated, oh, send this and that and not for the employees who there, there wasn't really an increase in reach at all.
Speaker 3:
15:26
And what we're seeing with our customers, of course we have duds too where there's not a change. But for most of our customers, what we are doing is actually helping them transform their culture by bringing in this platform that respects that personal element of this channel. It's not just, Yup, a print newsletter, email and mobile check. Uh, just add that to the list of channels and ship it out. That's, you can't do that because it's a personal channel and when you do respect it, you build in these use cases that keep employees coming back. Whether that's things like integrating, uh, being able for them to view their pay stubs right from the APP for example. Or then when they get push notifications, it's always relevant. But we have a customer in Florida, they, they only send push notifications for two channels. One is when they have weather emergencies and others where they have contests with prizes that people love it.
Speaker 3:
16:29
That's it. The only those conditions that they ever sent push. And when you create the right, you match that to your culture in the right way. You can get this project where 80% of people have downloaded it and 75% of those people are actively using it. And that's transformational for employees. They feel connected with in a whole new way. And it's transformational for internal communications because instead of it being, Hey, internal coms, you know, send this message, then that message, now they did, your CEO knows that you can get 75% of people to read something and an hour and you're not just becoming somebody that gets dictation to anymore. You have a seat at the strategic table and people are turning to you saying, how did you do this and how can I get involved with your platform? How can I get the word out about my initiative all around the organization? And you shift into more of a strategic role.
Speaker 2:
17:25
Yeah, it, it, it, it, it almost finds its way back to the dream of it being late at night in your, the your team and you are surrounded surrounding a pizza box and you're trying to change the world together. Right. And what happens when that pizza box is or what that the crowd that surrounds a pizza box is 10,000 people, right? Yeah. Then yeah,
Speaker 3:
17:50
it just, the, the, the, the high bandwidth, a situation of just face to face at it doesn't quite scale anymore. Right. Interesting. The,
Speaker 2:
18:02
I think there's a certain element that we need to dive a little bit deeper into as well, which is when we say we're a mobile first organization and the idea of being mobile, I do think that that's still kind of confusing. Hmm. Um, can you elaborate on just where your experience and what the perception of mobile is versus what it actually is?
Speaker 3:
18:25
Yeah, totally. Totally. So we, we talked a bit about like this whole fact that it's personal mobile channel and needing to respect that and so on. There are so many confusions around this beyond even just the personal versus company device confusion. Let's talk about, first of all, just what you can be on the phone in one of several different ways, right? You can be on the phone because you have a website and people are coming to your website through their phone. There's, you have a mobile web browser and you go to the website through the phone. Let's call that number one number two. You can be on the phone as an APP, as a native app as it's called. It's another app on their device, like the Facebook app that's downloaded there and let's call that the second option. The second way you can be there.
Speaker 3:
19:16
Sure. Um, the third is you can be a branded app, which is actually has the company's name on the outside of the APP. Um, why are these three, why do I call them out as three different ways? Because it's really important and they're really important differences between them and people in the marketplace. Vendors were trying to make money. We'll tell you anything. They will, they will claim that one is three and three is two and two is one. They'll say it's all the same. We're mobile. It's not in the first case when you're just on the the web browser. This doesn't give you access to the so called native capabilities, the capabilities which are native to the phone itself. This means push notifications. Most importantly, you literally can't send a push notification from a website. You can't do it. So if you're in a situation where that's the way that you are mobile, you're missing push, which is one of the most important things about being mobile, right?
Speaker 3:
20:19
The ability to go and grab attention, not just sit back and wait for people to come to you. Sure. In the second case, being Brant being, you know, sort of not branded versus branded, that's number two and number three, this is really different and it's really confusing because you can be branded on the inside of the APP but not on the outside. And there are vendors in our space or maybe like adjacent to our space who will, Oh yeah. You know, we, we have a mobile APP and it's a branded mobile app. And what they mean is, you know, it's just vendor name APP. Once you open the APP, then on the inside it has your colors. It has Jason Company colors, adjacent company branding, but the branding is on the inside. It's not the Jason Company app name on the door. Right, right. And this is really essential difference to the true fully branded app, that sort of third, you know, uh, version or the third mode that you can actually be mobile says, oh, lots of confusion there.
Speaker 3:
21:26
Um, the other thing is about mobile first. Okay. And what does, what the heck does mobile first mean? Okay. So the implication is if you're really a mobile first company and you think about these three channels, you know, be being just a website so you don't have push notifications, that doesn't strike me as really putting a priority on mobile. That seems like mobile has the backseat. Yes. Similarly, when it's not branded, it feels like you're not leaning into the full power of being mobile and allowing users to identify with the brand on the outside as well as on the inside. And so to, to us from our point of view, that's really more of a mobile second approach than a mobile first approach. And then the third one, it's a branded a mobile application. We think that is the standard and that should be the first, you know, point of judgment for saying, okay, seems like it could be a mobile first company beyond that mode of how you're on mobile.
Speaker 3:
22:23
It's just a philosophy. It's an orientation. Like when you think about and design your app or your platform and you have a desktop version and a mobile version, which pretty much every vendor does now, um, which one do you think of first and what are you really designing for? Um, and every company is either one or the other. Every company is, is mobile first or they're not mobile first. Um, so for us, we're mobile first. It, we take the, the, the most difficult road, which is the branded road. Um, to deliver it and we, we design and build a platform with mobile in mind,
Speaker 1:
22:59
like what you're seeing. We hope so. If you'd like to learn more about staff base and what staff base offers, please go to staff.com and click on schedule a demo. We'd love to show you the product now back to the podcast. Enjoy.
Speaker 2:
23:14
You know what that reminds me of is just to use a specific example is when you are on your phone and you're watching a video, maybe this video and you are forced to turn the phone this way in order to fully appreciate the meet the media. To me that is not mobile first great example. Yeah. When you're on Instagram and your we'll look holding your phone and you're on the train and you have this beautiful screen and it fills the entire real estate, you're, you're kind of wowed by that. That experience is really special. I don't have to turn my phone, I don't have to do anything. I just stay that and it's designed for what is in my hand. Yeah. Just like I don't necessarily, we talked joked about this earlier. I don't necessarily want to read 50 pages on my mobile device right now. Probably not, but I wouldn't mind listening to something.
Speaker 2:
24:14
I wouldn't mind watching a snippet that will drive me to it. Yeah, but using the video example in particular because video is so important to how people are consuming and digesting information. Yes. I would also add audio to that too. I think audio is, audio was actually a little bit more accessible because especially for people that travel a lot. Yeah. Because it is awkward. You can get motion sickness, things like that, but to be able to listen to something very easily put the phone back in my pocket is, is a really interesting experience and I feel like that's why podcasts, podcasts are exploding. It's really, it's you're able to digest things. Audible, audible, Amazon's audible is wonderful because you know people are able to read books that they have always wanted to read, but they was, they maybe they, they had to sacrifice. Do I spend time with my three year old or do I sit down and read a book for four hours before?
Speaker 2:
25:12
You know, so, but, but with audible you're able to, you know, knock those out. Yeah. Which is great. This is a thing now, I mean, companies that come to us, they use the staff based platform are doing podcasts, right? They're doing company podcasts. And even it's not just like all company podcasts we have like business units are like different groups within the company start using the platform to do that because when you really get into it, and especially the customers that have been with us for longer and see the platform evolve and see how powerful it can be, they start using it for more and more local authorship. Yes. And local readership. And that includes like these podcasts. So we had, uh, a feature at least where we change some of the way that we're handling audio as part of this reflection of being mobile first and, and respecting that that's an essential medium for our audience.
Speaker 2:
26:06
I love it. Yeah. That's it. And I think that that's, that's, that's the difference in, in, in, in, you know, when, when you, when you find out that the only way to access x information when 90% of the time I'm on my phone and I have to go to a website and I have to then find out that I have to pinch or expand like this to see where I put my username and see where I put my password and then I get to the site and it's just designed for my Imac and not my iPhone. Yeah. The difference is pretty staggering. Yeah. Um, and even if it does, you know, shift around accurately, it's still not the right experience. Yeah. Because it's, it looks just like that and it looks like it's just shifted around. But it's, the intention is for you to live on your Imac. Yes.
Speaker 3:
27:01
Intention is important. Yeah. Intention is like a seed and you can't get a, uh, a fruit tree from, from a, a seed of a different tree. Yeah. That's for sure.
Speaker 2:
27:12
But, um, I think to put a bowl around this, let's just talk a little bit more about this. What personal means. And I think that we talked about the respect that is necessary. We talked about the importance of brand and cause that's personal to you. You know, that's my company, your identity, it's where we work. And then we also talked about the, the misguided view of what social media is and how sometimes presenting information that looks like you're just trying to leverage something that looks successful maybe isn't the right way to go. Yeah. Um, what else? What else makes this personal? What were, what, what happened we touched on yet that that just sort of puts a bow at audit at the end. Like is there anything remaining that you think that we haven't touched on yet? My guess is maybe it's the, not just the push notifications, but there's also a level of accessibility to information that is very relevant to me and me alone or me and my unit.
Speaker 3:
28:19
Yeah. Well I think it's accessibility of information in a way. It's about broadening our understanding of what user experience is. Okay. And what I, I talk about this sometimes, and this might sound silly, but push notification governance sounds like sort of an arcane. Do you know like, yeah, like weeds, the idea for like a communications platform, but push notification governance is one of the most important user experience principles that you can have on a platform like this, right? Because ultimately push notification governance isn't about some backend and some, you know, big long menu settings system. It's not about that at all. It's about did I get the push notification that was spammy or not? And that can come down to some decisions that you make as an administrator about which channels have the power of push, whether push is just automatically turned on by default or does the author have to go out of their way to turn it off?
Speaker 3:
29:27
We Really Exist in this paradigm with, with these um, communications platforms where we've said we want the communication to be more relevant and more personal. Yeah. Well if you want to do that, you can't have one person being the only one who's publishing any ever. Right. And once you broadened beyond one person, then the person who creates the channel and puts the governance into place is a different person than the person that's writing for it. Right. And, and understanding these differences and how they're bearing on the user experience becomes this essential part of what the user experience is, which for the most part people think is, you know, how do the buttons look? Can I put this over there? And yes, it is about that, but all of these governance things and he's thoughtful ways that it works to facilitate local authors to be easy to use so that your local authors could be someone who's not, you know, some, uh, technology expert could even be a little technophobic and still figure it out. Um, that becomes, you know, more and more what it means to be personal and to be mobile. As you peel back the onion and you know, you, you tapped on,
Speaker 2:
30:40
that's something that really I have yet. And, um, I mean I, there'd be, I'm sure they're out there, but I have yet to experience an organization where at the top level the goal was to make all interaction very difficult. Right? Right. I haven't yet to meet a CEO who were, her soul was a primary objective was to make it impossible to find information, learn more about the organization and know what's going on. Right. I have yet to find a, in talked to anyone who's responsible to deliver information that is excited and engaged to make and prevent any type of engagement, communication, uh, and really keeps their finger across that they're the, the adoption and, and, and the numbers of, of people actually reading the, and consuming the information is less than 10%. And then I've also yet to meet anyone who starts working at an organization that keeps their fingers crossed, hoping that the CEO does not want to communicate, does not want them to be involved. They want to feel like a number. They want to make sure that they are completely isolated from the entire organization. They just want to show up. Maybe do their job, hopefully get paid and not get fired in a couple of weeks. Yeah. Right. I mean, the office is a TV show, right? It's not what people actually want anything in their life. Right.
Speaker 3:
32:16
It is, is making fun of something that that doesn't have to be that way. Yeah. But it is that way just out of human nature and out of the, the challenge of scale. Right? Like as you said, nobody's trying to make it difficult to find everything. It just is. When you're trying to do things with a team of 10,000 people, I mean, it's incredible what we can do as human beings and as organizations to get tens of thousands of people organized around a problem and moving in the same direction. It's just, it's not easy.
Speaker 2:
32:52
Right. That's just it. And it's, and I think that sometimes it's so easy to get lost in the features as you were talking about or getting lost and trying to not lose enormous investments that have been made. But at the end of the day, you're just trying to make the client experience the communication experience. The, the, the, the relevance of being part of this company, this brand easier. Yeah, totally. And the,
Speaker 3:
33:21
the return on investment, all of the changes into business operations, the cultural transformation will follow like the hard numbers stuff it will come to, but like this softer approach and mindset of respect and being personal. It's just, it has to be a part of the approach.
Speaker 2:
33:41
I mean, I think it's, it's one of our, one of our, um, the, the guides is the, is the Roi of an employment ads. And uh, Laura who put it together did some amazing work. Uh, it was, it was the Harvard Business Review, uh, J uh, jumped on with it too. And I think the one thing that just was so strong in that message was these, the, the, when you put in the effort and people start to get a excited and love how easy it is to do things, all of those huge, big, hairy numbers that are scary, like turnover. Yup. We'll turn of investment. Um, this big question mark word called engagement, they start to go in the right direction. That's right. You know, and that's where that respect that, that carefulness and had attack acute attention to how personal this experience needs to be. Because if it's not, if it's not personal, if it's not, if you don't put that attention in, you're going to get exactly what you're putting in, which is not that. Yeah. So that's really interesting. And um, I, uh, this has been really, really helpful. I think we learned a lot about the governance of push notifications. We need to, or learned a lot about, uh, what mobile first is versus being mobile available. Uh, we learned a lot about, um, the, the effort that it's going to take to do this. Right. But the payoff is pretty substantial.
Speaker 3:
35:24
Yeah. And the personal mobile channel. Yeah. As opposed to the work mobile channel, which people don't even make the distinction because mobile is it just his personal phones, you know, in the day, the
Speaker 2:
35:36
picture. Right. I like that. Peter, thank you very much. This has been another excellent episode. Thank you so much. Take care. Bye. Everyone.
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